Pujols also walked a LOT, 2005 was a pretty middle of road year for him and he still walked 95 times. His OBP was the highest of the MVP candidates that year.
Morneau won because every voter who didn't want to vote for a DH (Ortiz, Thomas, Hafner or Thome) or a pitcher (Santana) voted for him. Sizemore, Dye, Wells, Ichiro, Guillen, Matthews Jr Manny and Mauer also had good cases but likely split votes between one another or missed too many games to be considered. This award could have gone to several players with nobody really agreeing on who that player should have been.
It may have been controversial but god damn it, if Justin Morneau didn't get the concussion he did in 2010, he would have won a second AL MVP and maybe this video wouldn't have been a talking point.
I think Howard’s MVP isn’t really that controversial. We look at players today like Ohtani and he has traditional stats this year and we don’t bat an eye.
I’m conflicted here. I like the newer stats for predicting future performance and maybe as a tiebreaker, but I’m not mad at using the traditional ones for awards
It boggled my mind when it happened and still does to this day. With all the love Jeter has always gotten from baseball writers/voters, how in the world did they rob him of what would’ve been his first and only MVP. Not that Mourneau didn’t have a good season but Jeter was so much better.
I was at that 2007 game Johan got 17 Ks vs. Rangers. Couldn*t believe what I was seeing Cuddyer solo HR in th 2nd inning was all th scoring needed for Santana to shut off Texas
I was there too, and it was really something special. To this day whenever I hear anyone mention Sammy Sosa, the first thing that comes to my mind is how he was the only Ranger who got on base that game. Santana was just lights out.
These new age stat guys always killing former mvps. I remember that year and Justin was the best hitter in baseball down the stretch. Its MVP not player with best stats award. They do the same thing about Juan Gonzalez MVPs...he was a monster leading the rangers with big time hrs and rbis.
As a Twins fan I'm a bit biased but I think Morneau deserves the MVP. In the 80s and 90s Don Mattingly got gold gloves over Kent Hrbek, when Hrbek was a much better fielder.
@backyardbaseball2006 He averaged an fWAR under 3, which is good, not great. For perspective, Francisco Lindor has a higher career fWAR despite having played 9 full seasons to Bernie's 16.
@JuanMartinez-xf3uz But then we get into FWAR vs BWAR but even still using WAR he had an 8 Yr stretch where his FWAR and BWAR were 5.5/Yr. The first 11 or so yrs of his career he averaged 4 wins a yr defensive metrics weren't kind to him, but they absolutely tanked his WAR later in his career. I always take defensive metrics with a grain of salt because even sabermetricians can't agree on what metrics are best. And there are guys with high fielding percentages that metrics hate bc of other factors (Does that mean Bernie Williams probably wasn't a bad CF AT age like 36?? Of course not, he probably shouldn't have been playing CF the last like 5 yrs of his career) but the point is anyone who is top 10 all time for homeruns at his position, won a batting title while playing a premium defensive position, had a 5 yr stretch with OPS over 950, and an 8yr stretch of WAR over 5.5 literally can't be overrated....I think you're underrating just how good Lindor is too 😂
@@backyardbaseball2006Not to mention Bernie had some beastly playoff years at the dish, and a silent veteran leader on 4 WS winners. If Bernie had gotten into the HOF I would say that's a little much because I don't believe he meets HOF criteria. But he's not in, nor did he make it as far as he should've on the ballot. So calling him one or NYs overrated players is kind of silly.
Albert Pujols whined about it too, saying a guy who didn't take his team to the playoffs didn't deserve the award, then tried to say he was misinterpreted when there was backlash. He had no problem accepting the MVP award in 2008 despite the Cards being in 4th place in the division.
I still think Howard was the right pick. People forget how dominant he was that year. And the only reason he didn’t cross the 60 homerun mark was because pitchers just wouldn’t pitch to him the last two weeks. Morneau is definitely a controversial pick but Howard deserved to win MVP. I remember Pujols complaining about it though saying that the MVP winner should be a player that made the playoffs. But Howard was such a beast he nearly dragged the Phillies there himself.
The AL was a very tough race. Travis Hafner was easily the best hitter but only played 129 games. Papi’s numbers were also amazing but he’s a DH. Manny’s were better than Papi’s but only 130 games. Thome & Jermaine Dye had great hitting numbers but only played like 10-15 more games than Hafner who had as many XBH as them in less games. I would’ve gone with either Johan Santana or Papi
Manny Ramirez should get far more respect as a hitter,because u just couldnt get that man out!!He would just keep fouling ya off until u made a mistake and imo 49 years I have to say that Im not sure ive witnessed a better pure hitter then Manny!!
2006 makes a ton of sense to me. retroactive analysis usually omit a lot of context sometimes by choice. Not saying you - you’re reporting what the baseball writers said in a re-vote. Each vote has moving parts. Things like voter fatigue and support matter. I truly don’t get Grady in 2006. But Santana won cy young. In a robust field of vote getters, 2006 very much bottled pitchers up In their lane. I seem to remember Webb going off too. But Albert had a great lineup around him, I remember thinking if you moved Rolen up, he’d had a hell of a year too hitting 4 hole. Maybe not replace Albert’s stats but that team had players who WOULD deliver big numbers if Albert didn’t exist. And a bit of voter fatigue imo was at play. Justin you really did feel like did a lot twins. Though I must admit I remember liking his teammate ironically that year. I could be wrong but I remember thinking mauer got a bit shunned in 06
This is the problem with war and fwar and all these other sabermetric stats it's plain as day even if I gave Beltran a gold glove his season wasn't even close to Howard's lmao
According to the WAR stat, Grady Sizemore should’ve been the AL MVP among position players. 6.7 for Sizemore (2nd Best) vs. Ortiz (7th Best) and Morneau the actual MVP (19th Best) Thing is, Cleveland was 78-84 so going 71-91 without Sizemore doesn’t sound all that valuable, if you honestly believe that WAR claptrap.
Off topic somewhat but Justin in 2010 was going to be something very special and was ruined by injury. So I am glad he won in 2006. Even if he wasn’t fully deserving.
If you think Ryan Howard got it off anything other than MLB dying for a young black superstar, you are kidding yourself. Let's just call it what it was, and save the trouble of counting stats.
If Jeter had won there would be current outrage that his modern stats weren't good enough, or that his fielding was overrated, or that it would be another example of Jeter getting another award he didn't deserve simply because he played for the Yankees. I still think he deserved it.
Offense matters more than defense for baseball. I'd rather have a guy who hits Judge level than give a shit about lackluster defense when a ball isn't hit to them every play. So obviously I don't give a shit about WAR when it includes defense. Jeter had the best offensive WAR
you understand that offensive WAR takes into account position, right? A shortstop has a lower bar for hitting than a corner outfielder/infielder or DH because shortstop is more valuable defensively. yes, Jeter had the best offensive WAR that year, but it's because he plays shortstop. oWAR "Contains the factor for batting stats, baserunning, a positional adjustment, and the replacement player adjustment."
He isn't. He tested positive for a banned substance that apparently triggered a false positive. He received extra scrutiny since then and never failed a PED test.
Jeter placing second is the real scandal here. He's historically the worst defensive SS in the game's history, yet has multiple GG's to show for it. If you're that big a liability you're essentially below a DH in terms of ranking.
When Morneau won, the first and only thing I thought(other than Jeter being robbed by the BBWAA) was he wasn’t even the two best players on his team, maybe not even third best. It was an odd choice
Jeters power numbers were never gonna let him win an MVP award,cuz believe me,he was a Yankee thru and thru and was popular,but I always felt he was highly overrated and I mean very overrated!!Why woukd he have even been in the convo that yearlmao,Hell if all u need is a .350 avg with a few SB'S and just avg defensive skills then Wade Boggs should have around five MVP awards sitting around at home,lmao
@beardedbaldbaritone oh what's that? A guy who doesn't understand analytics? 🤣🤣🤣 Pujols lead Howard in WAR, Offensive War, OPS+, WPA, and any other important advanced metric. Howard led in some box score stats like HR and RBI but we're not a bunch of old boomers anymore who can't comprehend the value beyond a box score (except you obviously still are, and so were the voters at the time).
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A baseball video NOT calling Jeter overrated trash in 2024? I can’t believe my eyes
3:04 Pujols also has godly defence in prime. I think only 1B to put up 3 DWAR in a season if I remember correctly
Pujols also walked a LOT, 2005 was a pretty middle of road year for him and he still walked 95 times. His OBP was the highest of the MVP candidates that year.
@@WearingGoldluck and he never strikeouts more than 80 times in a season. The Machine.
Morneau won because every voter who didn't want to vote for a DH (Ortiz, Thomas, Hafner or Thome) or a pitcher (Santana) voted for him. Sizemore, Dye, Wells, Ichiro, Guillen, Matthews Jr Manny and Mauer also had good cases but likely split votes between one another or missed too many games to be considered. This award could have gone to several players with nobody really agreeing on who that player should have been.
interesting, how much do you think this will hurt Ohtani's chances of winning mvp this year??
It may have been controversial but god damn it, if Justin Morneau didn't get the concussion he did in 2010, he would have won a second AL MVP and maybe this video wouldn't have been a talking point.
Yea, that year he was so incredible. Really one of those what if’s I wish was possible to change.
I think Howard’s MVP isn’t really that controversial. We look at players today like Ohtani and he has traditional stats this year and we don’t bat an eye.
Howard mashed and had the most HRs since Bonds. He also was just great to watch
DYLAN YOU'RE DELUSIONAL OHTANI 50 /50 SEASON 😂😂😂 you do know no one else has done this right
Video: "Grady Sizemore was probably the most snubbed player in 2006"
Yankees fans: "That's a weird way to spell Jeter but I'll take it"
I have always thought RBI was a dumb stat because it depends on how good your team is like pitcher wins
I’m conflicted here. I like the newer stats for predicting future performance and maybe as a tiebreaker, but I’m not mad at using the traditional ones for awards
Awesome video, I think it's cool that you disagreed with the writers while not diminishing howard and morneu
It boggled my mind when it happened and still does to this day. With all the love Jeter has always gotten from baseball writers/voters, how in the world did they rob him of what would’ve been his first and only MVP. Not that Mourneau didn’t have a good season but Jeter was so much better.
Back then yankee bias was a real thing
@@johnd6535yankee bias was a thing but jeter was robbed of mvp 😂
Makes perfect sense 🤡
They made up for it with all the bogus gold gloves they have Jeter
Wow the Yankees didn't win an award! What a robbery!
@civilwarwasaninsidejob7405 Jeter was excellent defensively, he never made mistakes and fans never worried about him when he was on the field
2006 was not a good year for awards: Crash won Best Picture and Morneau won MVP 🤣People who voted for them both regretted and re-voted years later.
I was at that 2007 game Johan got 17 Ks vs. Rangers. Couldn*t believe what I was seeing
Cuddyer solo HR in th 2nd inning was all th scoring needed for Santana to shut off Texas
I was there too, and it was really something special. To this day whenever I hear anyone mention Sammy Sosa, the first thing that comes to my mind is how he was the only Ranger who got on base that game. Santana was just lights out.
These new age stat guys always killing former mvps. I remember that year and Justin was the best hitter in baseball down the stretch. Its MVP not player with best stats award. They do the same thing about Juan Gonzalez MVPs...he was a monster leading the rangers with big time hrs and rbis.
As a Twins fan I'm a bit biased but I think Morneau deserves the MVP. In the 80s and 90s Don Mattingly got gold gloves over Kent Hrbek, when Hrbek was a much better fielder.
NY players are always elevated way above their station. Bernie Williams is a classic example of this.
@@JuanMartinez-xf3uz bruh whaaat? I think you need to check the stats on Bernie Williams 😂
@backyardbaseball2006 He averaged an fWAR under 3, which is good, not great. For perspective, Francisco Lindor has a higher career fWAR despite having played 9 full seasons to Bernie's 16.
@JuanMartinez-xf3uz But then we get into FWAR vs BWAR but even still using WAR he had an 8 Yr stretch where his FWAR and BWAR were 5.5/Yr. The first 11 or so yrs of his career he averaged 4 wins a yr defensive metrics weren't kind to him, but they absolutely tanked his WAR later in his career. I always take defensive metrics with a grain of salt because even sabermetricians can't agree on what metrics are best. And there are guys with high fielding percentages that metrics hate bc of other factors (Does that mean Bernie Williams probably wasn't a bad CF AT age like 36?? Of course not, he probably shouldn't have been playing CF the last like 5 yrs of his career) but the point is anyone who is top 10 all time for homeruns at his position, won a batting title while playing a premium defensive position, had a 5 yr stretch with OPS over 950, and an 8yr stretch of WAR over 5.5 literally can't be overrated....I think you're underrating just how good Lindor is too 😂
@@backyardbaseball2006Not to mention Bernie had some beastly playoff years at the dish, and a silent veteran leader on 4 WS winners. If Bernie had gotten into the HOF I would say that's a little much because I don't believe he meets HOF criteria. But he's not in, nor did he make it as far as he should've on the ballot. So calling him one or NYs overrated players is kind of silly.
Albert Pujols whined about it too, saying a guy who didn't take his team to the playoffs didn't deserve the award, then tried to say he was misinterpreted when there was backlash. He had no problem accepting the MVP award in 2008 despite the Cards being in 4th place in the division.
I still think Howard was the right pick. People forget how dominant he was that year. And the only reason he didn’t cross the 60 homerun mark was because pitchers just wouldn’t pitch to him the last two weeks. Morneau is definitely a controversial pick but Howard deserved to win MVP. I remember Pujols complaining about it though saying that the MVP winner should be a player that made the playoffs. But Howard was such a beast he nearly dragged the Phillies there himself.
The AL was a very tough race. Travis Hafner was easily the best hitter but only played 129 games. Papi’s numbers were also amazing but he’s a DH. Manny’s were better than Papi’s but only 130 games. Thome & Jermaine Dye had great hitting numbers but only played like 10-15 more games than Hafner who had as many XBH as them in less games. I would’ve gone with either Johan Santana or Papi
2 videos in a week is the best thing to happen since sliced bread
Manny Ramirez should get far more respect as a hitter,because u just couldnt get that man out!!He would just keep fouling ya off until u made a mistake and imo 49 years I have to say that Im not sure ive witnessed a better pure hitter then Manny!!
2006 makes a ton of sense to me. retroactive analysis usually omit a lot of context sometimes by choice. Not saying you - you’re reporting what the baseball writers said in a re-vote. Each vote has moving parts. Things like voter fatigue and support matter. I truly don’t get Grady in 2006. But Santana won cy young. In a robust field of vote getters, 2006 very much bottled pitchers up In their lane. I seem to remember Webb going off too. But Albert had a great lineup around him, I remember thinking if you moved Rolen up, he’d had a hell of a year too hitting 4 hole. Maybe not replace Albert’s stats but that team had players who WOULD deliver big numbers if Albert didn’t exist. And a bit of voter fatigue imo was at play. Justin you really did feel like did a lot twins. Though I must admit I remember liking his teammate ironically that year. I could be wrong but I remember thinking mauer got a bit shunned in 06
This is the problem with war and fwar and all these other sabermetric stats it's plain as day even if I gave Beltran a gold glove his season wasn't even close to Howard's lmao
Literally almost all the awards before like 2018 could be put up for a re-vote. Writers only recently became competent at their jobs
According to the WAR stat, Grady Sizemore should’ve been the AL MVP among position players.
6.7 for Sizemore (2nd Best) vs. Ortiz (7th Best) and Morneau the actual MVP (19th Best)
Thing is, Cleveland was 78-84 so going 71-91 without Sizemore doesn’t sound all that valuable, if you honestly believe that WAR claptrap.
Let’s be real, even if you hate the Yankees, this was Jeter’s
Not Santana. His numbers were no where near enough to justify a pitcher winning. Has to be incredibly rare numbers for pitcher to win
If he had 45 steals and a gold glove Beltran still wasn't close lol
Off topic somewhat but Justin in 2010 was going to be something very special and was ruined by injury. So I am glad he won in 2006. Even if he wasn’t fully deserving.
If you think Ryan Howard got it off anything other than MLB dying for a young black superstar, you are kidding yourself. Let's just call it what it was, and save the trouble of counting stats.
Seems like even today jeters got asslickers cause no way should he ever be MVP he was good but nowhere near what MVP is or should be
The big hurt frank Thomas should have won in the the AL he carried Oakland into the playoffs
If Jeter had won there would be current outrage that his modern stats weren't good enough, or that his fielding was overrated, or that it would be another example of Jeter getting another award he didn't deserve simply because he played for the Yankees.
I still think he deserved it.
-165 DRS guy with 5 truly undeserved GG's finished second in MVP voting based on batting average alone. Yeah I'd say he didn't deserve it.
Am I the only one who thinks both players who won were probably the best choice?
Whatever the result will be the Mets will never get an MVP that’s all I know
Glad Howard won
Offense matters more than defense for baseball. I'd rather have a guy who hits Judge level than give a shit about lackluster defense when a ball isn't hit to them every play. So obviously I don't give a shit about WAR when it includes defense. Jeter had the best offensive WAR
you understand that offensive WAR takes into account position, right? A shortstop has a lower bar for hitting than a corner outfielder/infielder or DH because shortstop is more valuable defensively.
yes, Jeter had the best offensive WAR that year, but it's because he plays shortstop. oWAR "Contains the factor for batting stats, baserunning, a positional adjustment, and the replacement player adjustment."
@@kristopherwilson506 And Jeter had a better offensive WAR
HE WASN'T EVEN AN ALL STAR
Not even a Twins fan but anyone that can piss off both Yankee and Red Sox fans gets my respect! P.S. Isn't Ortiz a cheater anyway?
He isn't. He tested positive for a banned substance that apparently triggered a false positive. He received extra scrutiny since then and never failed a PED test.
DH can never be an MVP in my opinion. You are half a baseball player if you are DH only
Derek Jeter should’ve won the 2006 AL MVP Award. I will stand by that forever.
Ima touch you
BS
He's not even team MVP, let alone AL MVP.
@@JuanMartinez-xf3uz Yes, he was the team MVP in many seasons during his career
@@albertcaba3744 No
Jeter placing second is the real scandal here. He's historically the worst defensive SS in the game's history, yet has multiple GG's to show for it. If you're that big a liability you're essentially below a DH in terms of ranking.
shoutout pete rose, you will be missed
Now he'll get in the HOF
Hit king
He was a pedophile
Don’t believe me google it and read the reports
We will not miss him
When Morneau won, the first and only thing I thought(other than Jeter being robbed by the BBWAA) was he wasn’t even the two best players on his team, maybe not even third best. It was an odd choice
When casting votes I don’t look at stats or nothing it just a simple who I think is better
shame Jeter got robbed
Jeters power numbers were never gonna let him win an MVP award,cuz believe me,he was a Yankee thru and thru and was popular,but I always felt he was highly overrated and I mean very overrated!!Why woukd he have even been in the convo that yearlmao,Hell if all u need is a .350 avg with a few SB'S and just avg defensive skills then Wade Boggs should have around five MVP awards sitting around at home,lmao
Jeter robbed in 2006 and judge robbed in 2017 but there’s “yankee bias”
Just about anyone who played for the Yanks from 1921-1964 and did well is in the HOF, but sure…no Yankees bias. 🙄
A -165 DRS Short with 5 Gold Gloves is Yankee bias at its worst.
Lotta comments about jeter being robbed but Ortiz should have probably won
Hafner and Pujols were robbed. End of story.
Yeah how dare they vote for the guy with almost 60 homeruns, a .315 batting average and 150 RBIs.
@beardedbaldbaritone oh what's that? A guy who doesn't understand analytics? 🤣🤣🤣
Pujols lead Howard in WAR, Offensive War, OPS+, WPA, and any other important advanced metric.
Howard led in some box score stats like HR and RBI but we're not a bunch of old boomers anymore who can't comprehend the value beyond a box score (except you obviously still are, and so were the voters at the time).
I like how the takeaway from this video is going to be that “jeter still deserved the mvp”
Fuck the war Derek jeter was robbed of 2006 mvp