CORRECTIONS / UPDATES: - Probably should have put Zephyrim as Tier 1 too based on your feedback - they do have a bucket load of attacks with power weapons and can receive some great combos from Stratagems or Vahl buffs. They'll be pretty much ideal against the Skitarii blobs that are popular right now too. Thanks for educating me :)
Well Zephyrim are good with Vahl but when will she use it on them when around you have some sacresant... So they are for me a Tiers 2 units why : they are not 'auto include' like the folk in tier 1 but you can take one unit some time (specialy if you don't take seraphims). So maybe a 1,5 tier unit. The same for the exorciste better than the other tiers 3 unit but not as good as Tiers 2 maybe. Yes the stratagem cost 2CP but between 3 and 9 shoot (average 6) with F8 Dd6 (silver shroud is very good for the reroll ) with it you can blast an hidden rhino turn 1! so it was too powerfull for 1 CP. I still use 1 with a unit of retributor instead of 2 units of retributors the option to finish any unit anywere on the table for 2CP, because you retributor /dominion/ seraphim miss it of because it's hidden is powerfull
I don't care if my Exorcist dies without firing a shot every single game. If you don't want to put a pipe organ missile launcher on the field I have no place for you in my SoB heart
You gotta do it for the theming. Does anyone think for a moment that the SoB would fight any large engagement without their pipe-organ mobile missile platform? Of course not!
I heard someone suggest that the sisters’ long range artillery/tank option should be a manticore that launches Mortifier sarcophagi that after they do their missile damage, the repentia inside pops out. Certainly impossible to balance, but man did it sound fun and awesome.
I think it's possible just give them either half wounds but double attacks on exit OR make all the "missiles" be the cost of units idk I only play for fun
Sadly with priest buffs in the command phase i got nerfed a little on this one. But the tri heavy bolters are not bad for taking a group of repentia up the field.
The fact that you update the shown image to what you’re discussing is a 10/10 quality of life improvement! My fav’s are paragon suits and seraphim. Seraphim because they’re fun and badass, and paragon because they’re tough as nails. I know a lot of people have found them ineffective, but personally I have never lost a single one in combat and they’ve torn through anything throw at them.
@@annabellevogel2790 I like the sword more because maces are -1 to hit, but mainly because I just like the look of them (the sister superior in the sword even gets a special sword) Also they’re good against smaller models and meltas hit bigger ones harder so it balances out imo.
I generally think that Teir lists are a nice guideline; like tier 2 units should be considered inherently bad; they likely have several roles that they can complete better then tier 1 units, they just might have a downside or niche that means they require extra support. Like I honestly consider the Nightbringer a tier 3 or edging in at 2. Sure, no one blends elite units like the Nightbringer does; but he's extremely expensive and with the increased number of armies with mult-phase damaging? So having a preference toward a more focused/less general power house unit is awesome. Always liked sisters, though I think ultimately the new Custodies codex might be more my thing. It now has sisters of silence and that armour garlish golden armour of the benched boys just wants me to tarnish it....
You can actually get the arco flagellants up to 90 attacks with a 10 man squad together with war hymn :) and when you use a inquisitor with ordo malleus spell they also get a 5+ invulnerable. Together with the 2W, T4 and 5+ feel no pain they can be hard to bring down too.
Tried them at 8th edition and can tell that unfortunately they are still worse than repentia simply because they have no ways to be buffed other than stated above. It is still true for 9th ed. A unit of repentia could be buffed in a lot of ways up to having 3+ to hit with exploding 6+ which bring us to ~35(4+) hits with 30 rolls with a unit of 10 bloody rose repentia. 67 -1 AP wound with arco-flaggelants with only S5 are not as sufficient as -4 AP S6 35 wound rolls of repentia with +1 to wound granted by the Superia. Arco-flagelants are a nuisance that can be ignored unlike repentia, though you might run them without a transport unlike the aforementioned repentia
@@Bambutcher2 I don't se myself putting repentia in a rhino with 9th rules. Loosing out on command phase buffs like advance and charge. Then there is all the other good things you can pair up with dominions in them.
@@scrubbyjanitor1704 rhino is just a consistent way to deliver them. The only thing they lose is being able to charge after advance. That means that you have to deliver them deeper into enemy lines. It's almost impossible in round one so you need them to stay alive until round two. Rhino is the best option for me
As a Necron player when I saw the Sacresants I thought "That's pretty cool. They look like my Lychguard". Then I saw they have shields with guns and thought that's not fair.
I actually like the paragon warsuits at tier 2 here. They hit really hard at range or up close, and their shield of faith can get to a 5++ with a supporting dogmata near by. One of the main things I think people overlook with them is how amazing they make miracle dice being used to make saves. Like, if you have a 5 or 6 in your miracle pool, you and your opponent both know the suits can negate the first wounding anti-tank shot that hits them. Because anti tank shots tend to come in quality over quantity, these saves are not trivial at all, and really change the complexion of a turn - especially if your opponent missed your ability to auto save. Mix that in with their highish toughness, damage reduction, and 2+ armour, and the warsuits are actually way more durable than they initially appear. I think a lot of people just now would whap them in at tier 3 or even 4, but I agree they belong in tier 2. Being core and also having access to rites also adds a lot of invisible value for them.
You can even take a dialogus to complement them because she will be able to increase the invul _and_ alter the miracle dice, which means you can use a 4 as an invul save!
I've ran Ephrael in several competitive games and a GT, and I gotta say she's *stupid* underrated. Highly advise people toy with her in lists, the -1 to be wounded and her sword ignoring invulnerables are MASSIVE buffs.
-1 hit and wound, a 5+ fnp and a 4++. with 11 wounds between the two of them (thats one less that celestine) invulns cant be taken against her -3 ap str 6 d2 attacks and she gets a uncounterable smite. The warlord trait is not bad either. Against chaos its -2 leadership for her and adds 1 to combat attrition tests for any enemy within 6" (fleeing on 1s and 2s). All this for 80 less points then Celestine. Only thing celestine has over her is 1 damage reduction, 1 more str on the sword, and 4" more movement with fly.
@@nickm1290 Haha, i have that option too. Just way to many points when I'm souping knights as well (3 armigers and a paladin). With 1200 points open for sororitas, every point counts!
@@nickm1290 With the new baby carriers taking the spot of armigers I will be working on becoming full Sororitas. Until the funds are there though there's "Just more soup" ruclips.net/video/FAUnDDTz30k/видео.html
An important point toward Penitent Engines is that they can advance and charge, letting them get up the board quickly. They work well as a distraction unit to harass your opponents flank
I am so pissed... I did not know that 9th was coming out. I had just jumped back into this hobby. I bought the core book, I bought the sisters boxed set with the "updated" codex. I built an army. I purchased said army. Then 9th hit.... Now the army that was functional in 8th, is seriously debilitated in 9th. Literally broken, in a bad way... Screw it, gonna rock my mechanized sisters anyways... and lose a bunch....still gonna have fun though....
@@Ariocsneedle man also deserves it. Puts out incredible information. I just started but feel so much more confident walking into the table because of him
I’ve been very pleased with the new codex. It’s much more balanced with a variety of different lists placing high at GTs. Wildly different focus and synergies (20 sister blobs, flamer heavy, massed sacresants, classic Repentia melee, blessed bolts spam, melt-ributers, etc.). And it’s not purely Bloody Rose (which is great don’t get me wrong). I’ve seen Ebon Chalice, Argent Shroud and even a pure Valorous hearts list.
Have to question where these GTs are that sisters are doing so amazing, according to 40kstats they've only placed at GTs three times since their new codex, one of which being a sisters/admech soup list. Also pure valorous heart lists were pretty common pre 9th codex. Their new codex isn't terrible but it's definitely been over-nerfed, the fact that they've completely dropped out of the bracket they were in and are now struggling to compete with the top dogs when they formerly had no issue. The codex has somewhat good internal balance but it's clear nothing's displaced BR and VH as the competitive orders, even those lists that have their main force as another order needs to soup in a detachment of one of them to do well.
@@captainweekend5276 check on Goonhammer’s weekly competitive articles. They are being destroyed by Admech just like everyone else is right now which has overshadowed how overall positive the codex changes have been. I think it’s more telling that with the list diversity going around that the codex isn’t over-nerfed, just some extremely effective (and honestly boring) builds. Looking just at the stats is not a great way to get an idea of the big picture. Admech and Drukhari codexes shook the meta in an unhealthy way, and you have to do some digging to see that other factions are doing well outside of that. I think calling the Sisters “nerfed” really is inaccurate with how they play on the table now. Maybe the go-to go-wide Repentia/mortifiers/retributer lists have, but it’s given the Sororitas much more interesting and flexible builds overall
@@gianrcarlo No I think a lot of people have been trying to spin a narrative that sisters are still very strong despite every other metric saying otherwise. The fact that sisters are struggling to break into top 4s despite being a new codex shows that the nerfs were way too heavy handed. Everyone saying "don't look at the stats that say I'm wrong" is really telling. Also you're nuts if you don't think that sisters were nerfed with this new book, either that or you're lying through your teeth. Sisters winrate has fallen dramatically since their new codex and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sub 50% in a few weeks.
After spending all last year and a good part of this one finally getting into 40k I've finally got my sisters army about up to a 2k army can't wait to try them ( hoping soon)
It'd be worth breaking this video down into seperate ones for the main 6 orders I know they aren't at seperate codicies yet but it's like trying to say taking a load of slow moving heavy support in a white scars army is top tier when lumping all the space marine chapters together It will help people in seeing the differences in play styles and tactics for each order and certainly break up the current obsession with a lot for the bloody rose as a beat stick when they realise there are some better options otger orders can do that aren't as easilt answered by other armies
Great video, exactly what I was hoping for from you and more so! Very detailed and thought out, and as always great quality! I am new to sisters and this helps immensly and helps confirm my choices for my army a lot.
@@Escalotes wha? Retributors can absolutely move and shoot? Unless you mean without penalty? In which case, argent shroud retributors can advance and shoot without penalty
Having one Castigator in the army sounds fine just to have that long range treat that is not a massive investment. Not high on the points to power, but being the best option to fill a role makes it a nice model.
You have one round of shooting with it before it's destroyed or degraded to uselessness. That's about 6-7 wounds to the typical T5 heavy infantry targets, 5-6 to T7 targets. Less if you face DG. Not much of a long range threat unfortunately... You are better off with a twin MM Immolator and that's not saying much.
@@chraiflame6631 Pretty much everything in sisters army is squishy and if they put resources into attacking the tank in the back they are not using it on other stuff, so you force the enemy into making decisions. Try to degrade the tank all the way in the back or ignore it and focus on other stuff, for 165 points I think its fine as a singular model in a list. The MM immolator is 24' vs 72, 15 points cheaper and can transport, making it move forward, the 72' range make the castigator the only thing in the sister book that is perfectly fine sitting way back all game.
@@scrubbyjanitor1704 Most opponents will have some dedicated AT which they will allocate to your tank so it will not draw small arms fire away from your infantry. I also find that 72" hardly matters when armies typically start 24" from each other and tend to rapidly move to the middle of the board. Plus, half of the Castigator's damage output is 36". But to each of his own I guess.
@@chraiflame6631 Rhinos and mortifiers are other targets for AT weapons. I am thinking my personal opinion here would be to swap castigator with triumph on the tier list at tier 2 and 3 respectively. Its not super good but its not Agathae bad :) (also this is nit picking, Auspex did a good job considering he tries to understand all the details of all the armies, that is a lot and some more)
It's worth noting that for 25pts (or 30 with the Vindicator) a Preacher will boost that 60 attack Arco-Flagellant unit to a 90-attack Arco-Flagellant unit. With that Stratagem they gain a huge amount from +1A per model.
Another benefit of Junith is that she provides full re-rolls for a character as well. You choose one core unit or character for full re-rolls and one core unit for re-rolls of 1s to hit. Good flexibility there. She's really tanky with a 4+ invul with 7 wounds. Not bad for 130 points.
Would love to see how this changes in Crusade rules. Stuff like the Giga banner in your overall list makes all relic s (normal ones) free and the Hospitaller can ignore battle wounds for the whole army. Then you have the fact that if you level up your elites the fluffy way, they get their bespoke stratagems for free, such as Seraphim and Deadly Decent. (This also includes Repentia's fight when slain one)
Zephyrim are better now than they were before. The extra attacks are awesome and you can buff them with Morven Vahl before shooting them like a missile
I feel like the Penitent Engines are also worthy of being in Tier 1 tbh. Advance and charge is strong with Miracle Dice(EDIT: as someone pointed out, they can't actually use Miracle Dice though!), and they are still a steal for 55pts (compared to say an Assault Centurion for example!). With up to 8 Str6 flamers in a squad many units have to think twice before facing that potential Overwatch.
@@LordKajak Oh yeah, no Acts of Faith on them. I'd still rate them tier 1 regardless. I just don't value the Mortifiers heavy bolter shots that highly, while I do value advance and charge combined with the potentially nasty Overwatch.
Two primary comments: Zephyrim are one of the most dangerous melee units in the game now. 10 in Bloody Rose with War Hymn (can be garaunteed and cast out of the command phase via Fiery Orator) get 51 attacks. With Vahl buffs or Zealot, rerolling hits, Tear Them Down and The Passion, they average 14 automatic wounds at AP-4, AND 51 hits at S4 AP-4. That's unit deleting right there. Easy to get to 4++ and if joining a Canoness/Palatine with Word of the Emperor they'll just straight up delete anything. Penitent Engines: Advance and Charge is much more valuable now we don't have it via strategem, and Heavy Flamers are objectively superior to Heavy Bolters now that they are S6 and offer max hits via strategem so lack of heavy Bolters is irrelevant. 4 of these bad boys spitting 48 S6 hits? Yes plz.
Celestians actually get +1 WS, +1A and +1 LD over normal Sisters, which isn't bad for 2 points especially when you get the other special rules too. Unfortunately Sacresancts are right there so why bother?
I think they have a niche use with Argent Shroud and Multi-meltas. I've also found that they can do a surprising amount of damage with Holy Trinity bolters and S4 melee. But yeah, they don't really measure up to the real damage dealers of the faction.
Personally feel Arco Flagellants a Tier 1 pick , just because they can provide decent melee punch against targets that Repentia are a bit more inefficient against, regardless of Order. A massive boon to anyone looking to play a gun line sisters army, and also somewhat underestimated.
The Crusaders shields are now called Crusader Shields not Storm Shields any more. Still a 4++ but no improvement to the armour save. Which is okay because they have a 3+ standard any ways.
Zeph in tier 2 is a mistake. Probably the best single (non-character) unit in the codex. 5 alongside vahl delete entire ad mech bricks (even with their buffs up) for only 85 points, with a threat range of 23 inches. Bring 10 and the only thing that will stop them is no reroll effects.
I'd say Crusaders and DCA are T3 even with their ability to do cheap actions. A Dogmata gives free actions without sacrificing shooting and there are many ways to get EOAF with actual damage dealers. Of the Battle Conclave units, only the flagellants have good rules unfortunately (The unit with recently released models. Strange that...).
Maybe one weakness of mortifiers is the fact that they are vehicles so too many of them is giving up bring them down points, especially since the opponent needs them dead if they don't want to be buried under a bucket of dice in melee
Celestians are pretty good if you load up min squads of them with either 2 meltas + combi or 1 melta, 1 mm, 1 combi. Can't do that on BSSs anymore and those melta shots hitting on 2s rerolling 1s with a Canoness don't suck ;)
Quite suprised to see zephyrim on tier 2. I have seen quite a bit of lists with zephyrim having good results, so i though zephyrim were kind of strong. I suppose people like their role and they still perfom well. I have 20 of them so im glad to see they are at least good.
They lost the reroll wounds. They were amazing. I have 30 of them. I had a whole seraphim/zephyrim bloody rose army that focused on pistols and melee. My list got a huge nerf.
i think zephyrim are still t1, they are fast, can deepstrike, can get 4++ easy and with a hard strategem spam you can give them zealot + auto wounding on 6 with 5 attacks + exploding 6s.
Hey so this is gonna sound weird but I'm newer and don't know points well but can anyone tell me a decent Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose team for about 800 points?
When looking for a list, don't just ask for a list - look at what you want to accomplish (in terms of objectives and playstyle) and design a list that can accomplish that.
Such a shame they neutered the battle sanctum. It was actually somewhat worth taking in the last codex, yet they basically nerfed it and increased the points for no real reason. Pre-codex battle sanctum was the template for making a decent faction terrain unit, not too expensive and provides a decent passive effect as long as a unit is present. Now they've cursed it by making it practically useless due to costing way too many points. I don't get why they don't just remove faction terrain since it really seems like they hate them and don't want them to see play, either that or take the AoS approach and allow a piece of faction terrain to be taken for free if the army has them. Also you should probably think about breaking up the list a bit more if nearly half of it is ending up in the A tier.
If I'm understanding the rules correctly if you put a Dogmata on the unit they can fire while generating miracle dice while also having the objective secured ability plus hymns buffs. That's not terrible but I'm not sure that's worth 145 points to make that happen in most situations.
Buy the combat patrol and boarding patrol box if you are able to find it; this will give you a solid 1k army you can expand and since you have a decent combination of elite, melee and shooting the shift to 10th ed wont screw you army
Casti should be tier 2; it's range and heavy hit means it's a good "keep them honest" piece, which we otherwise lack in the army. Zephyrim are absolutely S+++ tier and anyone who hasn't figured that out yet doesn't have any AdMech in their meta. Fully buffed, a unit of five picks up 18 Lucius Skitarii on the charge. For 90 points, that's incredible. Paragons are tier 3 at best until their points drop. 270 for 3 4W models is a joke. I feel like Seraphim are on the tier 1/2 border; they're not quite as valuable as they used to be now that Zephyrim are so much better. Take your 15 Zephs first, then if you want more point pressure, add Seraphim. I feel like Morts probably don't make it out of tier 2, simply because they're still competing for slots with Retributors, and Retributors are still a "take all three squads" kind of choice.
Seraphim can still deepstrike and fire twice. The bloody rose ones I run get 8d6 hand flamer shots and 28 bolters shots and 2 plasma pistol shots the turn they drop. For 2 cp as ebon chalice you can max the flamer shots. Then I charge for 31 attacks (5 power sword) (exploding 6s) and for another cp you can make 6s auto wound as well. Now that flamer are str 4 its insane.
I think paragon warsuits are too high in your list. I think they are actually the worst unit in the codex, if not in their own tier on the bottom. On the other hand, Morvenn maybe needs her own tier at the top haha. I also think arco flagellants could probably go into tier 1. Pretty good list overall though!
@@ZeroNumerous There are quite a few things like half their points that can do that. The main issue is just how expensive they are for their points. 3 of them also aren't likely to clear a squad of 10 marines either in melee without some sort of buffs.
Not really. Seraphim are in NO WAY a Tier 1 Unit. Flamers suck ass unless yer fighting guard or bugs.. when's the last time anyone put them on the table? Deadly descent is ass now that they took away the ability to extend the ranges on weapons, thus ruining their ability to deep strike tank hunt. I have no fucking idea why he put them as a Tier 1 unit... he must have been VERY VERY tired. They're Tier 3.. at best. Tier 4 Honorable Mention is now the Imagifier as well, as he became utterly useless with the 9th ed.
@@Nazgull2k1 Flamers suck? You mean you don't like firing 60 bolters and dealing MWs on 4+s to wound? You should try Ebon Chalice Seraphim and watch them eradicate any infantry in the game from deep strike.
I disagree, paragon suits are nigh unkillable and dish out insane hurt. 5 terminators on the charge killed one. ONE. they killed all but one of the termies after
The High Lord Sister us the cringiest thing I have ever read. -The Adeptus Custodes have nothing but respect for her. The same Custodes who are purposefully mistrustful of anyone who isn't Big E Great writing GW
I sort of agree, she is quite Sue'ish by the looks of it. That being said, having respect for somebody doesn't exactly mean you trust him/her. The two usually line up, but there are plenty of situations where you do one but not the other.
Orks will be better vs Drukhari and Admech, but the sisters codex is practically written to counter orks, a squad of retributors with 4 heavy flamers, a superior w/combi flamer, two armorium cherubs, and a palatine reroll aura with the cleansed by fire stratagem easily wipes a mob of 30 boyz, that's a 165 point combo making almost double its points back in a single round of shooting, and can do it even more easily against beast snaggas. Snakebites can mitigate this, but then it leaves them less powerful against the more competitive armies, so I reckon we'll see sisters lists cropping up to counter a potential ork meta depending on how orks do against the current top factions.
CORRECTIONS / UPDATES:
- Probably should have put Zephyrim as Tier 1 too based on your feedback - they do have a bucket load of attacks with power weapons and can receive some great combos from Stratagems or Vahl buffs. They'll be pretty much ideal against the Skitarii blobs that are popular right now too. Thanks for educating me :)
Well Zephyrim are good with Vahl but when will she use it on them when around you have some sacresant... So they are for me a Tiers 2 units why : they are not 'auto include' like the folk in tier 1 but you can take one unit some time (specialy if you don't take seraphims). So maybe a 1,5 tier unit.
The same for the exorciste better than the other tiers 3 unit but not as good as Tiers 2 maybe. Yes the stratagem cost 2CP but between 3 and 9 shoot (average 6) with F8 Dd6 (silver shroud is very good for the reroll ) with it you can blast an hidden rhino turn 1! so it was too powerfull for 1 CP. I still use 1 with a unit of retributor instead of 2 units of retributors the option to finish any unit anywere on the table for 2CP, because you retributor /dominion/ seraphim miss it of because it's hidden is powerfull
Also they're cheaper, plus bloody rose can up to eleven units like zephyrim, repentia, engines and flagellants due their stats
I don't care if my Exorcist dies without firing a shot every single game. If you don't want to put a pipe organ missile launcher on the field I have no place for you in my SoB heart
My thoughts exactly, however u gotta take the blame now😅
I couldn't agree more. I use mine over the rhino because. Battle organs.
You gotta do it for the theming. Does anyone think for a moment that the SoB would fight any large engagement without their pipe-organ mobile missile platform? Of course not!
I heard someone suggest that the sisters’ long range artillery/tank option should be a manticore that launches Mortifier sarcophagi that after they do their missile damage, the repentia inside pops out. Certainly impossible to balance, but man did it sound fun and awesome.
I think it would be more Sister-y if it was literally a trebuchet mounted on a Rhino launching them.
I think it's possible just give them either half wounds but double attacks on exit OR make all the "missiles" be the cost of units idk I only play for fun
Immolator might be tier 3, but S tier in my heart. It's a tank with stained glass and flamethrowers...it's why sisters are my gals
Also, it's the first official vehicle that was purely a Sisters' vehicle... I remember scratch building them in the late 90s.... Good times.
@@AnHourOfWolves I remember the official ones...1 of mine had 2 left hand heavyflamers....
Immolator is good, but the Repressor is the true Martyr of the Codex.
The immolator is good in fringe cases where you want to bring retributors but can't in low points games.
Sadly with priest buffs in the command phase i got nerfed a little on this one. But the tri heavy bolters are not bad for taking a group of repentia up the field.
The fact that you update the shown image to what you’re discussing is a 10/10 quality of life improvement!
My fav’s are paragon suits and seraphim. Seraphim because they’re fun and badass, and paragon because they’re tough as nails. I know a lot of people have found them ineffective, but personally I have never lost a single one in combat and they’ve torn through anything throw at them.
I just got some myself, have you found more success w the sword or mace ? (V new)
Auspex Tactics production values are really improving and this is deeply appreciated.
@@annabellevogel2790 I like the sword more because maces are -1 to hit, but mainly because I just like the look of them (the sister superior in the sword even gets a special sword)
Also they’re good against smaller models and meltas hit bigger ones harder so it balances out imo.
@@jonniesaur awesome :) thats what i chose as well! I love the idea of those big paragon warsuits slaying through some ork boys, badass asl 💖
I generally think that Teir lists are a nice guideline; like tier 2 units should be considered inherently bad; they likely have several roles that they can complete better then tier 1 units, they just might have a downside or niche that means they require extra support. Like I honestly consider the Nightbringer a tier 3 or edging in at 2. Sure, no one blends elite units like the Nightbringer does; but he's extremely expensive and with the increased number of armies with mult-phase damaging? So having a preference toward a more focused/less general power house unit is awesome.
Always liked sisters, though I think ultimately the new Custodies codex might be more my thing. It now has sisters of silence and that armour garlish golden armour of the benched boys just wants me to tarnish it....
You can actually get the arco flagellants up to 90 attacks with a 10 man squad together with war hymn :) and when you use a inquisitor with ordo malleus spell they also get a 5+ invulnerable. Together with the 2W, T4 and 5+ feel no pain they can be hard to bring down too.
They also don't get order bonuses so an excellent melee blender if you don't want a bloody rose detachment.
Completely agree. Dont have any currently, but will try a few prox games. Should be very interesting in a single detachment list...
Tried them at 8th edition and can tell that unfortunately they are still worse than repentia simply because they have no ways to be buffed other than stated above. It is still true for 9th ed. A unit of repentia could be buffed in a lot of ways up to having 3+ to hit with exploding 6+ which bring us to ~35(4+) hits with 30 rolls with a unit of 10 bloody rose repentia. 67 -1 AP wound with arco-flaggelants with only S5 are not as sufficient as -4 AP S6 35 wound rolls of repentia with +1 to wound granted by the Superia.
Arco-flagelants are a nuisance that can be ignored unlike repentia, though you might run them without a transport unlike the aforementioned repentia
@@Bambutcher2 I don't se myself putting repentia in a rhino with 9th rules. Loosing out on command phase buffs like advance and charge. Then there is all the other good things you can pair up with dominions in them.
@@scrubbyjanitor1704 rhino is just a consistent way to deliver them. The only thing they lose is being able to charge after advance. That means that you have to deliver them deeper into enemy lines. It's almost impossible in round one so you need them to stay alive until round two. Rhino is the best option for me
As a Necron player when I saw the Sacresants I thought "That's pretty cool. They look like my Lychguard". Then I saw they have shields with guns and thought that's not fair.
I wish we could take Warsycthes with our shields like the art in bfga2.
I actually like the paragon warsuits at tier 2 here. They hit really hard at range or up close, and their shield of faith can get to a 5++ with a supporting dogmata near by. One of the main things I think people overlook with them is how amazing they make miracle dice being used to make saves. Like, if you have a 5 or 6 in your miracle pool, you and your opponent both know the suits can negate the first wounding anti-tank shot that hits them. Because anti tank shots tend to come in quality over quantity, these saves are not trivial at all, and really change the complexion of a turn - especially if your opponent missed your ability to auto save. Mix that in with their highish toughness, damage reduction, and 2+ armour, and the warsuits are actually way more durable than they initially appear. I think a lot of people just now would whap them in at tier 3 or even 4, but I agree they belong in tier 2. Being core and also having access to rites also adds a lot of invisible value for them.
You can even take a dialogus to complement them because she will be able to increase the invul _and_ alter the miracle dice, which means you can use a 4 as an invul save!
I've ran Ephrael in several competitive games and a GT, and I gotta say she's *stupid* underrated. Highly advise people toy with her in lists, the -1 to be wounded and her sword ignoring invulnerables are MASSIVE buffs.
-1 hit and wound, a 5+ fnp and a 4++. with 11 wounds between the two of them (thats one less that celestine) invulns cant be taken against her -3 ap str 6 d2 attacks and she gets a uncounterable smite. The warlord trait is not bad either. Against chaos its -2 leadership for her and adds 1 to combat attrition tests for any enemy within 6" (fleeing on 1s and 2s). All this for 80 less points then Celestine. Only thing celestine has over her is 1 damage reduction, 1 more str on the sword, and 4" more movement with fly.
I can't decide between ephrael and celestine, so I usually take them both lol
@@nickm1290 Haha, i have that option too. Just way to many points when I'm souping knights as well (3 armigers and a paladin). With 1200 points open for sororitas, every point counts!
@@SleeplessBanjos at that would make sense. I just run straight sisters, with ephrael as an agent of the imperium to save a hq spot
@@nickm1290 With the new baby carriers taking the spot of armigers I will be working on becoming full Sororitas. Until the funds are there though there's "Just more soup"
ruclips.net/video/FAUnDDTz30k/видео.html
Thanks for taking the time to do this, it really helps me wrap my head around the rules and how they fit in :)
Its funny seeing Lohn Lennon just winning Lone Star Open with a Battle Santcum :D
An important point toward Penitent Engines is that they can advance and charge, letting them get up the board quickly. They work well as a distraction unit to harass your opponents flank
I am so pissed... I did not know that 9th was coming out. I had just jumped back into this hobby. I bought the core book, I bought the sisters boxed set with the "updated" codex. I built an army. I purchased said army.
Then 9th hit....
Now the army that was functional in 8th, is seriously debilitated in 9th. Literally broken, in a bad way...
Screw it, gonna rock my mechanized sisters anyways... and lose a bunch....still gonna have fun though....
This is just what I needed. Perfect timing and again quick with awesome work!
Dude is nuts. He put out an almost 2 hour codex review last night. Now another video
He's painted himself red
Hes hungry for a following, Guy is already the GO TO for news in the hobby and hes not been around all that long.
@@Ariocsneedle man also deserves it. Puts out incredible information. I just started but feel so much more confident walking into the table because of him
It’s hard to be king it seems lol
I’ve been very pleased with the new codex. It’s much more balanced with a variety of different lists placing high at GTs. Wildly different focus and synergies (20 sister blobs, flamer heavy, massed sacresants, classic Repentia melee, blessed bolts spam, melt-ributers, etc.). And it’s not purely Bloody Rose (which is great don’t get me wrong). I’ve seen Ebon Chalice, Argent Shroud and even a pure Valorous hearts list.
Have to question where these GTs are that sisters are doing so amazing, according to 40kstats they've only placed at GTs three times since their new codex, one of which being a sisters/admech soup list. Also pure valorous heart lists were pretty common pre 9th codex. Their new codex isn't terrible but it's definitely been over-nerfed, the fact that they've completely dropped out of the bracket they were in and are now struggling to compete with the top dogs when they formerly had no issue. The codex has somewhat good internal balance but it's clear nothing's displaced BR and VH as the competitive orders, even those lists that have their main force as another order needs to soup in a detachment of one of them to do well.
@@captainweekend5276 check on Goonhammer’s weekly competitive articles. They are being destroyed by Admech just like everyone else is right now which has overshadowed how overall positive the codex changes have been. I think it’s more telling that with the list diversity going around that the codex isn’t over-nerfed, just some extremely effective (and honestly boring) builds. Looking just at the stats is not a great way to get an idea of the big picture. Admech and Drukhari codexes shook the meta in an unhealthy way, and you have to do some digging to see that other factions are doing well outside of that.
I think calling the Sisters “nerfed” really is inaccurate with how they play on the table now. Maybe the go-to go-wide Repentia/mortifiers/retributer lists have, but it’s given the Sororitas much more interesting and flexible builds overall
@@gianrcarlo No I think a lot of people have been trying to spin a narrative that sisters are still very strong despite every other metric saying otherwise. The fact that sisters are struggling to break into top 4s despite being a new codex shows that the nerfs were way too heavy handed. Everyone saying "don't look at the stats that say I'm wrong" is really telling. Also you're nuts if you don't think that sisters were nerfed with this new book, either that or you're lying through your teeth. Sisters winrate has fallen dramatically since their new codex and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sub 50% in a few weeks.
After spending all last year and a good part of this one finally getting into 40k I've finally got my sisters army about up to a 2k army can't wait to try them ( hoping soon)
It'd be worth breaking this video down into seperate ones for the main 6 orders
I know they aren't at seperate codicies yet but it's like trying to say taking a load of slow moving heavy support in a white scars army is top tier when lumping all the space marine chapters together
It will help people in seeing the differences in play styles and tactics for each order and certainly break up the current obsession with a lot for the bloody rose as a beat stick when they realise there are some better options otger orders can do that aren't as easilt answered by other armies
Great video, exactly what I was hoping for from you and more so! Very detailed and thought out, and as always great quality! I am new to sisters and this helps immensly and helps confirm my choices for my army a lot.
i start to think Auspex is actually A tech priest with a shittons of tech.
Dominions with blessed bolts are pretty sick. Stick a character or Sacresants in with them and they can really cover an objective.
Before watching, I'm going to guess it's Morvenn Vahl, Seraphim, Retributors, and Repentia
Retributors got the nerf in 9th since they can no longer move and shoot, so reserves tactics aren't as broken as they used to be :(
@@Escalotes wha? Retributors can absolutely move and shoot? Unless you mean without penalty? In which case, argent shroud retributors can advance and shoot without penalty
@@Mooglewut expected coming out of reserves because that how that works
👌
@@Mooglewut why reserves? It's far stronger in a rhino
Having one Castigator in the army sounds fine just to have that long range treat that is not a massive investment. Not high on the points to power, but being the best option to fill a role makes it a nice model.
You have one round of shooting with it before it's destroyed or degraded to uselessness. That's about 6-7 wounds to the typical T5 heavy infantry targets, 5-6 to T7 targets. Less if you face DG. Not much of a long range threat unfortunately... You are better off with a twin MM Immolator and that's not saying much.
@@chraiflame6631 Pretty much everything in sisters army is squishy and if they put resources into attacking the tank in the back they are not using it on other stuff, so you force the enemy into making decisions. Try to degrade the tank all the way in the back or ignore it and focus on other stuff, for 165 points I think its fine as a singular model in a list.
The MM immolator is 24' vs 72, 15 points cheaper and can transport, making it move forward, the 72' range make the castigator the only thing in the sister book that is perfectly fine sitting way back all game.
@@scrubbyjanitor1704 Most opponents will have some dedicated AT which they will allocate to your tank so it will not draw small arms fire away from your infantry. I also find that 72" hardly matters when armies typically start 24" from each other and tend to rapidly move to the middle of the board. Plus, half of the Castigator's damage output is 36". But to each of his own I guess.
@@chraiflame6631 Rhinos and mortifiers are other targets for AT weapons.
I am thinking my personal opinion here would be to swap castigator with triumph on the tier list at tier 2 and 3 respectively. Its not super good but its not Agathae bad :)
(also this is nit picking, Auspex did a good job considering he tries to understand all the details of all the armies, that is a lot and some more)
It's worth noting that for 25pts (or 30 with the Vindicator) a Preacher will boost that 60 attack Arco-Flagellant unit to a 90-attack Arco-Flagellant unit. With that Stratagem they gain a huge amount from +1A per model.
Another benefit of Junith is that she provides full re-rolls for a character as well. You choose one core unit or character for full re-rolls and one core unit for re-rolls of 1s to hit. Good flexibility there. She's really tanky with a 4+ invul with 7 wounds. Not bad for 130 points.
Would love to see how this changes in Crusade rules.
Stuff like the Giga banner in your overall list makes all relic s (normal ones) free and the Hospitaller can ignore battle wounds for the whole army.
Then you have the fact that if you level up your elites the fluffy way, they get their bespoke stratagems for free, such as Seraphim and Deadly Decent.
(This also includes Repentia's fight when slain one)
Zephyrim are better now than they were before. The extra attacks are awesome and you can buff them with Morven Vahl before shooting them like a missile
I feel like the Penitent Engines are also worthy of being in Tier 1 tbh. Advance and charge is strong with Miracle Dice(EDIT: as someone pointed out, they can't actually use Miracle Dice though!), and they are still a steal for 55pts (compared to say an Assault Centurion for example!). With up to 8 Str6 flamers in a squad many units have to think twice before facing that potential Overwatch.
Penintent engines can profit/use any miracle dice
@@LordKajak Oh yeah, no Acts of Faith on them. I'd still rate them tier 1 regardless. I just don't value the Mortifiers heavy bolter shots that highly, while I do value advance and charge combined with the potentially nasty Overwatch.
Penitent engines should also be T1
did you seriously just call the Paragon suit a "nundam"? that's hilarious
Two primary comments:
Zephyrim are one of the most dangerous melee units in the game now. 10 in Bloody Rose with War Hymn (can be garaunteed and cast out of the command phase via Fiery Orator) get 51 attacks. With Vahl buffs or Zealot, rerolling hits, Tear Them Down and The Passion, they average 14 automatic wounds at AP-4, AND 51 hits at S4 AP-4. That's unit deleting right there. Easy to get to 4++ and if joining a Canoness/Palatine with Word of the Emperor they'll just straight up delete anything.
Penitent Engines: Advance and Charge is much more valuable now we don't have it via strategem, and Heavy Flamers are objectively superior to Heavy Bolters now that they are S6 and offer max hits via strategem so lack of heavy Bolters is irrelevant. 4 of these bad boys spitting 48 S6 hits? Yes plz.
Celestians actually get +1 WS, +1A and +1 LD over normal Sisters, which isn't bad for 2 points especially when you get the other special rules too. Unfortunately Sacresancts are right there so why bother?
I think they have a niche use with Argent Shroud and Multi-meltas. I've also found that they can do a surprising amount of damage with Holy Trinity bolters and S4 melee. But yeah, they don't really measure up to the real damage dealers of the faction.
Personally feel Arco Flagellants a Tier 1 pick , just because they can provide decent melee punch against targets that Repentia are a bit more inefficient against, regardless of Order. A massive boon to anyone looking to play a gun line sisters army, and also somewhat underestimated.
How much sleep do you get, the amount of content you release is insane.
The Crusaders shields are now called Crusader Shields not Storm Shields any more. Still a 4++ but no improvement to the armour save. Which is okay because they have a 3+ standard any ways.
will the crusader had previoulsy a 4+ normal save so now with it's 3+ it has de +1 like the SM Stormshield
Zeph in tier 2 is a mistake. Probably the best single (non-character) unit in the codex. 5 alongside vahl delete entire ad mech bricks (even with their buffs up) for only 85 points, with a threat range of 23 inches. Bring 10 and the only thing that will stop them is no reroll effects.
They're 100% Tier 1. Hands down. There is no ifs, ands or buts about it, Zephyrims are a gold nugget.
I need more mecha nuns
The castigator and exorcist being at the bottom sucks. That's like...all our vehicles that punch hard.
I'd say Crusaders and DCA are T3 even with their ability to do cheap actions. A Dogmata gives free actions without sacrificing shooting and there are many ways to get EOAF with actual damage dealers. Of the Battle Conclave units, only the flagellants have good rules unfortunately (The unit with recently released models. Strange that...).
Maybe one weakness of mortifiers is the fact that they are vehicles so too many of them is giving up bring them down points, especially since the opponent needs them dead if they don't want to be buried under a bucket of dice in melee
Fortifications at lowest tier...i have hardly seen any fortification period.
Maybe if it was like AOS where unique terrain things are free to bring.
Expect to see the new ork one , deployed by teleporta
Junith Eruita not in Ebon Chalice just makes me want to flip a table…
Outstanding content, as always!
Celestians are pretty good if you load up min squads of them with either 2 meltas + combi or 1 melta, 1 mm, 1 combi. Can't do that on BSSs anymore and those melta shots hitting on 2s rerolling 1s with a Canoness don't suck ;)
Run a couple of squads of them with a couple of melta dominion squads in rhinos to get enough AT for pretty much any situation
Thanks auspex very cool
Quite suprised to see zephyrim on tier 2. I have seen quite a bit of lists with zephyrim having good results, so i though zephyrim were kind of strong. I suppose people like their role and they still perfom well. I have 20 of them so im glad to see they are at least good.
They lost the reroll wounds. They were amazing. I have 30 of them. I had a whole seraphim/zephyrim bloody rose army that focused on pistols and melee. My list got a huge nerf.
Everyone talks up the Repentia but they have never really delivered for me. I rather take Celestians with Melta weapons tbh
+ celestians have bodyguard
If you are argent shroud you have to take at least 2 Retributors squads.
New ork unit tier list!
i think zephyrim are still t1, they are fast, can deepstrike, can get 4++ easy and with a hard strategem spam you can give them zealot + auto wounding on 6 with 5 attacks + exploding 6s.
Hey so this is gonna sound weird but I'm newer and don't know points well but can anyone tell me a decent Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose team for about 800 points?
When looking for a list, don't just ask for a list - look at what you want to accomplish (in terms of objectives and playstyle) and design a list that can accomplish that.
Please chaos space marine content, no one has been talking about them
Such a shame they neutered the battle sanctum. It was actually somewhat worth taking in the last codex, yet they basically nerfed it and increased the points for no real reason. Pre-codex battle sanctum was the template for making a decent faction terrain unit, not too expensive and provides a decent passive effect as long as a unit is present. Now they've cursed it by making it practically useless due to costing way too many points. I don't get why they don't just remove faction terrain since it really seems like they hate them and don't want them to see play, either that or take the AoS approach and allow a piece of faction terrain to be taken for free if the army has them. Also you should probably think about breaking up the list a bit more if nearly half of it is ending up in the A tier.
If I'm understanding the rules correctly if you put a Dogmata on the unit they can fire while generating miracle dice while also having the objective secured ability plus hymns buffs. That's not terrible but I'm not sure that's worth 145 points to make that happen in most situations.
What is the stratagem for the battle sisters you refer to as ‘trans-human physiology’ - I’m planning an army and this sounds fun!
I'd like to buy some sororitas units as my second army. Do you think I should wait for 10th edition release or is it okay to buy models now? Thanks
Buy the combat patrol and boarding patrol box if you are able to find it; this will give you a solid 1k army you can expand and since you have a decent combination of elite, melee and shooting the shift to 10th ed wont screw you army
Casti should be tier 2; it's range and heavy hit means it's a good "keep them honest" piece, which we otherwise lack in the army.
Zephyrim are absolutely S+++ tier and anyone who hasn't figured that out yet doesn't have any AdMech in their meta. Fully buffed, a unit of five picks up 18 Lucius Skitarii on the charge. For 90 points, that's incredible.
Paragons are tier 3 at best until their points drop. 270 for 3 4W models is a joke.
I feel like Seraphim are on the tier 1/2 border; they're not quite as valuable as they used to be now that Zephyrim are so much better. Take your 15 Zephs first, then if you want more point pressure, add Seraphim.
I feel like Morts probably don't make it out of tier 2, simply because they're still competing for slots with Retributors, and Retributors are still a "take all three squads" kind of choice.
Seraphim can still deepstrike and fire twice. The bloody rose ones I run get 8d6 hand flamer shots and 28 bolters shots and 2 plasma pistol shots the turn they drop. For 2 cp as ebon chalice you can max the flamer shots. Then I charge for 31 attacks (5 power sword) (exploding 6s) and for another cp you can make 6s auto wound as well. Now that flamer are str 4 its insane.
The fact that the ugly golden baby carrier is good hurts me...
I think paragon warsuits are too high in your list. I think they are actually the worst unit in the codex, if not in their own tier on the bottom. On the other hand, Morvenn maybe needs her own tier at the top haha. I also think arco flagellants could probably go into tier 1. Pretty good list overall though!
I can't see why you'd think Paragon Warsuits are bad. They're amazing MEQ killers, clearing full 10-man squads of marines on a charge.
@@ZeroNumerous There are quite a few things like half their points that can do that. The main issue is just how expensive they are for their points. 3 of them also aren't likely to clear a squad of 10 marines either in melee without some sort of buffs.
You know something is wrong with a a codex when the tier 1 portion of the video is bigger than the tier 4, 3 and 2 combined
Not really. Seraphim are in NO WAY a Tier 1 Unit. Flamers suck ass unless yer fighting guard or bugs.. when's the last time anyone put them on the table? Deadly descent is ass now that they took away the ability to extend the ranges on weapons, thus ruining their ability to deep strike tank hunt.
I have no fucking idea why he put them as a Tier 1 unit... he must have been VERY VERY tired. They're Tier 3.. at best.
Tier 4 Honorable Mention is now the Imagifier as well, as he became utterly useless with the 9th ed.
No, it means that the codex is internally balanced
@@Nazgull2k1 mhhhh, I think that you have never played 9th sprpritas yet... Try em
@@doomkingraye7692 That would mean most are T3 and 2
@@Nazgull2k1 Flamers suck? You mean you don't like firing 60 bolters and dealing MWs on 4+s to wound? You should try Ebon Chalice Seraphim and watch them eradicate any infantry in the game from deep strike.
Nundam suits !!! 🤣
I disagree, paragon suits are nigh unkillable and dish out insane hurt. 5 terminators on the charge killed one. ONE. they killed all but one of the termies after
Poor auspex. Chooses the sanctum as tier 4 the same weekend John Lennon is loading it up for the LSO. :D
Where is Morvenn Vahl?
A, she just isnt added in the slide.
Immolators with multi melta clears everything...
Multi melta clears everything lol
But there are cheaper way to bring them
@@Somnosomnobidule You still need transports tho
Am I correct in thinking the hospitaller can resurrect D3 paragon warsuits or are they not infantry?
They're vehicles iirc
Paragon Warsuits are vehicles, not infantry. The weird thing is that Paragon Warsuits don't create a single sister on foot when they die.
Hey James
Hi Connor
@@cavanranger1762 not you
Audio Editor
the serpahin are not so good since flmaeres are S3 / anmd like almost all the army they dont have any piercing too so they could save almost all
Their flamers are S4, actually.
@@jarrakul wow cool, better tahn the past one but i still dont like almost all dont have piercing
The High Lord Sister us the cringiest thing I have ever read.
-The Adeptus Custodes have nothing but respect for her.
The same Custodes who are purposefully mistrustful of anyone who isn't Big E
Great writing GW
"she's so cool and everyone likes her and she's the best character in the game!"
I think she's some GW writer's OC SOB waifu
I sort of agree, she is quite Sue'ish by the looks of it.
That being said, having respect for somebody doesn't exactly mean you trust him/her. The two usually line up, but there are plenty of situations where you do one but not the other.
I really hated her and the paragon suit release
Also just a SoB High lord feels wrong
I believe the orks are better. No reason other than the reality .
Orks will be better vs Drukhari and Admech, but the sisters codex is practically written to counter orks, a squad of retributors with 4 heavy flamers, a superior w/combi flamer, two armorium cherubs, and a palatine reroll aura with the cleansed by fire stratagem easily wipes a mob of 30 boyz, that's a 165 point combo making almost double its points back in a single round of shooting, and can do it even more easily against beast snaggas. Snakebites can mitigate this, but then it leaves them less powerful against the more competitive armies, so I reckon we'll see sisters lists cropping up to counter a potential ork meta depending on how orks do against the current top factions.