@@smallcnclathes I was behind on videos and watched your last 3 or 4 at once. You know that I am ignorant on machining and lathe work. I only did a little steel turning back in the mid 80s. But watching you and I've been watching cutting edge engineering lately and there is so much to learn. It's made me think about getting a small lathe or mill but they still cost a lot and I have nothing to make with them . But it is interesting.
The aluminium insert turns quite nicely, the swirling effect is unusual, could be the swarf curling in the groove?? Don't know! Great demo again Nigel Cheers Ian
Hi Ian, as I said, I have seen it before, but it does not affect the smoothness of the surface finish. I must say apparently though, as I have no way to measure surface finish. I must add, I don't usually feed that hard, I would usually part at 0.05. 0.1 was the recommendation on the packet and it certainly had the chips flying out of the groove
My guess is the positive rake on the polished insert makes it sharp enough It's probably hard to visually see the "edge". Polished edge reduces edge build up, so may have longer life than the ground unpolished insert 🤔
Hi Thanks for your comment. It gets a bit like how long do you want it to last. I would go ground just to make it easier on my small lathe. As a hobbyist, a pack would most likely outlast me.
I have about had enough of this subject! I tend to do videos based around small lathes. I see no reason why anyone with a small lathe should punish themselves by opting to use 6061. Of all my videos, I think around three might be with 6061 and they were mainly about how horrible it is to deal with. Back when I was working, I sent a few jobs to friends with the equipment to deal with 6061. Lots of power, flood coolant, it never bothered them. If I had some in stock I might try it as the lathe is still set up, but I doubt I will find any. It might be interesting as this exercise used feed that is 2 or 3 times faster than what I normally use. I won’t buy any, but if I find some, I might give it a try. Thanks for your suggestion even if it does give me an attack of the horrors. LOL. Nigel
Oh dear, I looked in the shed today and found some 1" 6061. I am busy for a couple of days, but if I have an attack of silliness I may turn it down to 20 to run the test. I would only plan to run it with the ground insert though, that would have to do.
20mm, why do you ask? That was about as large as the tool holder would handle. May have gone to 22, but I had 20 in stock. Thanks for your comment. Nigel
@@smallcnclathes I had my issues parting like 40-50mm soft steel, I figured out some gentle way to part it but it's far from all your videos. My pulley setup isn't good either at the moment, it's over-tensioned to avoid slipping until I will install my multi-v-belt. I only use the ground inserts for a long time.
@@mrechbreger the largest parting tool I have will only go to 41 mm. I have had to be selective in the work I take on. If the job requires a bigger lathe, I shop it out.
Problem seems with the "ground insert" microgeometry - that's why the vibrating sound occurs. The other two seem like they have same general all-use geometry, just the second one doesn't have TiN coating, seems like it doesn't have any coating at all - that's why the machine needs more power. TiN is not very good choice for aluminum but the coating atleast lowers the friction and thus lowers the temperature and causes less material welding. About the "whirling effect" and the ugly circles on face, it seems like rigidity issue - of both tool and workpiece. You machine very soft ductile material, every milimeter away from chuck makes miracles. When facing by half the width of the insert, you basically force the less that 2mm wide grooving tool body to bend. And same with the material on such high RPMs - the "steel insert" geometry is not much sharp as it's multi-purpose for harder materials and the forces just push and bend the material. High RPMs in this case may seem to work counter-productive. When I'm facing aluminum (and basically everything), I always use regular one-point cutting tool technique. Try to leave 0.05-0.3mm of material on the roughed face and add finishing cut. Also try lowering both the feed and RPM - feed 0.03-0.05mm/rev, RPMs 1000-1500. Also try adding one to three 0.1 wide metal sheets under your tool to get it bit above center.
Hi Adam, thanks for our comment. I used that feed as it was what was suggested on the packet. I also used the suggested rpm. If i I was doing this for myself I would not run slower. I typically use 3000 rpm for any thing under 30 mm in non ferrous material and my usual feed would be 0.03 to 0.05. Nigel
@@smallcnclathes RPM is proportional with rigidity, depth of cut, cutting angles and part/tool overhang. For the first facing pass, big radial cutting forces occur on the workpiece and the tool is basically bending the material. Combined with high RPM, even small radial force can move with the rod easily. Aluminum is not steel, you can use very low cutting speeds and don't break the tool. The main thing is to stabilise the workpiece/tool to avoid movement and vibrations.
@@adamsevcik7708 Hi Adam, my machines are small, I run highest possible rpm when ever I can. My machines are not automatic, I have to stand at the machine while it is working. If higher rpm means I stand around less I will go with higher rpm. Because my machines do not have huge power, heavy cuts are not the norm for me. Most of my jobs are high rpm with light cuts. A lot of the time, I am unable to reach the doc and feed required to make the insert chip breaker function. I appreciate the effort you put into your comments.
Well i guess that shows results beat supposition, although the ammeter does confirm one thought. As with all things, if the you get the required result does it matter how you got there(politics excepted of course😉)?
Hi Chris, trying to make money with a small cnc can be a trial. I have learned it is a better than just acceptable result that is what one needs to strive for. With a spindle rated at 1/2 horse power, it can be difficult to compete and there have been quite a few times I have had to adapt to get the result I wanted. Thanks for your comment.
Fact filled as usual a very good test of insert performace
Thanks Colin. Nigel
I ended up ordering some proper ground MGGN inserts. I think you're right the others ones I bought were just polished and being sold as ground.
I hope they work well for you. Nigel
Very interesting Nigel. Thanks
Thanks Gary, nice to know I can always count on you for a comment. Nigel
@@smallcnclathes I was behind on videos and watched your last 3 or 4 at once. You know that I am ignorant on machining and lathe work. I only did a little steel turning back in the mid 80s. But watching you and I've been watching cutting edge engineering lately and there is so much to learn. It's made me think about getting a small lathe or mill but they still cost a lot and I have nothing to make with them . But it is interesting.
The aluminium insert turns quite nicely, the swirling effect is unusual, could be the swarf curling in the groove?? Don't know!
Great demo again Nigel
Cheers Ian
Hi Ian, as I said, I have seen it before, but it does not affect the smoothness of the surface finish. I must say apparently though, as I have no way to measure surface finish. I must add, I don't usually feed that hard, I would usually part at 0.05. 0.1 was the recommendation on the packet and it certainly had the chips flying out of the groove
Do you part with a feed rate or do you use g33, feed per rev?
I use feed per rev, I have no idea what G33 might be. It does not exist in my software. It is almost 30 years old! Thanks for your comment. Nigel
My guess is the positive rake on the polished insert makes it sharp enough
It's probably hard to visually see the "edge". Polished edge reduces edge build up, so may have longer life than the ground unpolished insert 🤔
Hi Thanks for your comment. It gets a bit like how long do you want it to last. I would go ground just to make it easier on my small lathe. As a hobbyist, a pack would most likely outlast me.
are the inserts all priced similar ?
Pretty much, all around the 20 to 24 aud on eBay. Thanks for your comment
Could you re-test with 6061?
I have about had enough of this subject! I tend to do videos based around small lathes. I see no reason why anyone with a small lathe should punish themselves by opting to use 6061. Of all my videos, I think around three might be with 6061 and they were mainly about how horrible it is to deal with. Back when I was working, I sent a few jobs to friends with the equipment to deal with 6061. Lots of power, flood coolant, it never bothered them. If I had some in stock I might try it as the lathe is still set up, but I doubt I will find any. It might be interesting as this exercise used feed that is 2 or 3 times faster than what I normally use. I won’t buy any, but if I find some, I might give it a try. Thanks for your suggestion even if it does give me an attack of the horrors. LOL. Nigel
Oh dear, I looked in the shed today and found some 1" 6061. I am busy for a couple of days, but if I have an attack of silliness I may turn it down to 20 to run the test. I would only plan to run it with the ground insert though, that would have to do.
It is up! ruclips.net/video/unz8Qzt404k/видео.html
What's the diameter of the aluminum rod?
20mm, why do you ask? That was about as large as the tool holder would handle. May have gone to 22, but I had 20 in stock. Thanks for your comment. Nigel
@@smallcnclathes I had my issues parting like 40-50mm soft steel, I figured out some gentle way to part it but it's far from all your videos.
My pulley setup isn't good either at the moment, it's over-tensioned to avoid slipping until I will install my multi-v-belt. I only use the ground inserts for a long time.
@@mrechbreger the largest parting tool I have will only go to 41 mm. I have had to be selective in the work I take on. If the job requires a bigger lathe, I shop it out.
Problem seems with the "ground insert" microgeometry - that's why the vibrating sound occurs. The other two seem like they have same general all-use geometry, just the second one doesn't have TiN coating, seems like it doesn't have any coating at all - that's why the machine needs more power. TiN is not very good choice for aluminum but the coating atleast lowers the friction and thus lowers the temperature and causes less material welding.
About the "whirling effect" and the ugly circles on face, it seems like rigidity issue - of both tool and workpiece. You machine very soft ductile material, every milimeter away from chuck makes miracles. When facing by half the width of the insert, you basically force the less that 2mm wide grooving tool body to bend. And same with the material on such high RPMs - the "steel insert" geometry is not much sharp as it's multi-purpose for harder materials and the forces just push and bend the material. High RPMs in this case may seem to work counter-productive. When I'm facing aluminum (and basically everything), I always use regular one-point cutting tool technique. Try to leave 0.05-0.3mm of material on the roughed face and add finishing cut. Also try lowering both the feed and RPM - feed 0.03-0.05mm/rev, RPMs 1000-1500. Also try adding one to three 0.1 wide metal sheets under your tool to get it bit above center.
Hi Adam, thanks for our comment. I used that feed as it was what was suggested on the packet. I also used the suggested rpm. If i
I was doing this for myself I would not run slower. I typically use 3000 rpm for any thing under 30 mm in non ferrous material and my usual feed would be 0.03 to 0.05. Nigel
@@smallcnclathes RPM is proportional with rigidity, depth of cut, cutting angles and part/tool overhang. For the first facing pass, big radial cutting forces occur on the workpiece and the tool is basically bending the material. Combined with high RPM, even small radial force can move with the rod easily. Aluminum is not steel, you can use very low cutting speeds and don't break the tool. The main thing is to stabilise the workpiece/tool to avoid movement and vibrations.
2011 isn't a "very soft ductile material" though...
@@adamsevcik7708 Hi Adam, my machines are small, I run highest possible rpm when ever I can. My machines are not automatic, I have to stand at the machine while it is working. If higher rpm means I stand around less I will go with higher rpm. Because my machines do not have huge power, heavy cuts are not the norm for me. Most of my jobs are high rpm with light cuts. A lot of the time, I am unable to reach the doc and feed required to make the insert chip breaker function. I appreciate the effort you put into your comments.
@@MidEngineering EN AW-2011 is normal aluminum+copper 100HB alloy.
Well i guess that shows results beat supposition, although the ammeter does confirm one thought. As with all things, if the you get the required result does it matter how you got there(politics excepted of course😉)?
Hi Chris, trying to make money with a small cnc can be a trial. I have learned it is a better than just acceptable result that is what one needs to strive for. With a spindle rated at 1/2 horse power, it can be difficult to compete and there have been quite a few times I have had to adapt to get the result I wanted. Thanks for your comment.
I like Guinness.
What, as a cutting fluid?