She saw how small your point count was, and left to find someone with an ork army, with an order of magnitude more points... She wasn't looking for some low-effort scrub.
@@andrewamann2821God this feels like one of those terrible "Sorry we don't let anyone with below 1 million power score into this club/resturant/venue" shitty mobile ads but with WarHams.
"I sat down early Sunday morning to start building those Inceptors." Aaah, Inceptors... and here I was expecting to hear all about getting the damn things on those flying sticks! 😂 Interesting points about picking what and where to 'fail,' especially with self-imposed targets and goals in a hobby like this. Thanks for the Pshaow! ✌
GW drain me and after 37 years I stopped buying them 😢 I have flipped to Mantic and my hobby energy has burst back to life! Easy to build not to busy and they look great in squads! If GW ever go back to hobby and not a life style I’ll head back over.
One of the answers you seek and GW won`t give us is slide molding (when the mold have more than just 2 parts). I saw GW using that only on some Baneblade parts only. That alone could give us less parts and pre-drilled barrels. Lots of scale model manufactures use that because it`s hard to sell another Panther kit without new cool features. Gunpla kits use that very often (and we won`t talk about pre-assembled movable parts on sprue like in RG line). Sure GW can afford that if they want. But yeah, mostly it`s sculpting choices having lots of small unnecessary details...
As soon as you mentioned Redemptor and Inceptors, I knew the pain. I would like more for my marines, but I remember the pain of building them. I also find the new kits take forever. I sit down saturday lunchtime with a couple of kits at most. Maybe by 8pm I might be done building them. By that time, I’m done, mentally exhausted. I hobby to unwind from work, but I need a way to unwind from the hobby at times.
I'm currently assembling some Kill Teams after years out of the wargame scene, and they absolutely have been splitting parts into sub-assemblies to an irritating degree. And it's all still monopose!
The most egregious "weird cut" I remember seeing is a push-fit Stormcast where one piece was the head, one foot and a thin slice of the back connecting one to the other! Honestly, part of me has suspected that the complexity of the kits is to discourage conversions & kitbashing; I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I remember James Hewitt saying on The Painting Phase that kits are designed to make sure that you can't just kitbash that unit yourself from existing kits.
I'm relatively new to Games Workshop games and just finished the assembly of a Deathleaper... my god, so, so, many pieces! I never would have expected it to take as long as it did for me to assemble a single model.
I remember when they used to be so simple, maybe a shield here and there, an extra head or two to chose from, arm with a sword or a spear. Painted up fairly quickly for mass units. Now I look at a box for a minute or two, think how much work it would be to assemble, put it back on the shelve, and then order a bunch of Mantic or Oathmark units.
Totally agree. I tried to get back into GW... wow four years ago, with a SoB army and man, each mini was like a jigsaw of parts. That project floundered after just a squad and an HQ.
The new LotR plastic heroes are the worst offenders. They're single-pose, sometimes with a weapon/shield/head option, and not being heroic scale means they are much more delicate when taking them off their spurs. Some really good sculpts in there (and some slightly less good) but way too much effort and not enough of a step up from the old metal blister packs in terms of detail and quality. The angles involved in some of the joins are so unnatural, and pieces fit between multiple different pieces for some reason - Eomer's spear piece has a bit of the horsetail from his helmet. Why. WHY?! I didn't notice I'd got it wrong and part of the horsetail is just unseated until I started painting it.
I have to admit I'm not a big fan of the construction of the newer GW kits. I don't like how mono-pose they are which interferes with kitbashing, and I don't care for all the fiddly bits to glue together, and too many have way too much weight balanced on one tiny thin bit of plastic instead of just using a perfectly functional clear stand. Then of course you have the price tags but that's always been a GW problem. Silver lining though, a lot of them are very pretty sculpts. Painting hordes of them for squad after squad can get rather... daunting however.
I think it is good to have quality, high-detailled models. But sometimes, I just want/need a lot of fodder which makes me nostalgic for the good old one-print sideways models. Just a single, solid "meeple" which will enforce your will in regiments of 40 on the table.
I loved the new guardsmen models when they were revealed. Then I built a squad of them and had to face the prospect of painting them. I have a simple color scheme for my regiment but these guys were a nightmare. All this new detail should be great but now each dude is at least 5x more stuff to paint and detail - and it wasn't optional either as so much of it covers up torso and leg space. Suddenly I have to worry about what color the puttees are. My old guardsmen wear brown boots. There's hooks and clips and buckles and all sorts of strapping, belts, ropes and webbing, random knives, pockets and grenades.... ugh. Up close they look fantastic. But from 3+ feet away next to all the rest of the (old) models they don't do anything different for me or my opponent. Sometimes from 3 feet away they look more like a confused mess of color and detail - not from bad painting but the simple fact one doesn't need max definition/resolution at distance. From 3 feet away all my old troopers have that stuff as well... I just dont need to see it. This video was great but reminded me how sad I am about the state of the current guard... and lets not even get into how GW treats people who actually try to play their "games" lol
I feel your pain. I'm building a mix of gw and northstar models for 5 parsecs. Prepping the gw stuff is making my eyeballs ache. The northstar minis are simpler but they still look cool and have loads of character.
I totally agree, GW's models are getting to complex, I have a disability which is slowly destroying my muscles and find it extremely hard to build models these days, it's a barrier to getting to the painting stage which is the most enjoyable part of the hobby for me. I actually ended up throwing my last GW model in the bin (an Oldworld Britonion knight on Pegasus) because I got so frustrated with it and covered it in way too much glue. I've recently placed a large order for Ravaged Star miniatures which are a slightly larger scale and all of which require no assembly whatsoever.
All the extra parts is for all the extra detail and undercuts GW is putting on their models. I think they're overcompensating at this point. Years ago, they were the best wargaming plastics. Then Wargames Factory (Chinese manufacturer) came on the scene doing the plastics for Kingdom Death, Malifeaux, Dreamforge Games, and others, and GW's plastics were obviously not up to that level of detail, undercuts, assembly, etc. So GW went that direction with all the undercuts, all the details, and ALL THE PARTS.
I agree with you 100%. I grew up on single piece metals, and I honestly miss that mentality. We can make detailed models without needing them to be a dozen plus parts per dude. Models, especially wargaming models, should have the fewest steps possible between purchase and being able to be used. And some companies like GW, Wyrd ,and even a lot of newer Mantic stuff, forget this for thr sake of pointless posing and "detail" that's actually just greebly bullshit that ends up making the models look busy. Gove me as few parts as huma ly possible, hell I'll even take push-fit (the Warhammer Underworlds models look great *and* don't take an hour to build) over fiddly, overly complicated assemblies that just make me question if this hobby is even for me anymore.
I like your comment of just because a sculptor sculpted it that doesnt mean you have to paint it. I do like all the detail to be there when I really want to make a paintjob shine but its so freeing to not feel like I have address each and every minute element. After 30 years of being around this hobby do paint this way. I do what needs to be done to tabletop finish a model. And then afterwards I will ...or maybe never ...go back in to touch up details. To be honest unless its a focal point detail thing... I rarely go back.
Thank you! I recently bought a unit of skeletons for the Old World and each unit model is a minimum 6 parts! They're tiny, fiddly and it's totally unnecessary, especially on rank and file. Who's going to need to have all that dynamic posing on what are, basically, cannon fodder and just there to make up a rank bonus. Plus I need time to fit together easily so I have to keep things tight anyway or I can only put the 36 of them together in a set order! I thought I'd have them done in an afternoon and painted in a day as they are only skeletons but I've been trying to make time for weeks now and it's so daunting it's switched from something i look forward to to another job on my to do list! Aaaaand breathe. Lastly, just want to say I'm loving the channel, keep those videos coming!
My group now have ubiquitous 3D prints. We recently decided to do a collective project for the English Civil War. There are no good stls for figures there so we went for Warlord plastic figures. Half of us gave up, and bought replacement metals from Foundry. Nobody should have to spend time building pointlessly multi-part fiddly little miniatures. The most I'll accept now are the excellent Victrix sculpts that usually come in 2-3 parts (body, head, weapon arms). GW kits are an absolute joke.
I played 40k in late second edition all the way through 4th. I returned to GW about a year ago (and the hobby as a whole). I was shocked at how fiddly the new models are. While I truly hate all the tiny pieces, I'm more frustrated by how this movement has impacted my hobby life. I'm thinking about how all of the early plastic kits were broken up in a way that made kit bashing and modeling easy. Now everyone's models look the same. This is made worse by there literally being one sculpt for each hero. I get GW has to make money. I don't begrudge them that, but things have certainly changed.
Some people find their joy from the building process, and I believe they are in some small part catering to them with all the pieces... I am not one of those people. I loved Leviathan and how easy those models were to put together for that exact reason.
Couldn't agree more, some of the heads for Necromunda (Escher and Enforcers are my recent experience) are 2 piece (and in some cases 3 if you count the ponytails). Why does the face and the head need to be separate, for the Escher it does allow you to mix hairstyles with faces but for the Enforcers they are all the same helmet!
Gee-dubs is definitely hitting a new level for model details... But that may not be a good thing. Take the Adeptus Titanicus Reaver titan for example - the first 15 steps of assembly are just for the legs. Also, give Heavy Gear another chance!! The pdf version of the rulebook is free on the drive thru rpg site.
I wonder if the hyper-detail level isn't the result of (as some others have commented) making it easier for Contrast Paints to do their thing, and also making the models more legally distinct from the 3D proxies out there. Personally, I don't mind if more pieces = more flexibility in posing the figures, but that often is not the case. There are a lot of great 3D sculpts out there, but honestly, I don't like the 'feel' of the resin. Maybe it's because I'm used to the GW plastic (which we have to admit, has gotten quite good). If you don't share that sentiment, then don't buy GW figures, and the marketplace will shape their future decisions... :)
I'm relatively casual with the hobby. Spru and bur removal is the worst, and I discovered through Gundam models that I just cant seem to do it very well. I tend to get models that are 1 piece for this exact reason. It's also why I am nervous about painting WH models. They are pricy, and there is a solid chance I screw them up before even setting up my wet palette. Respect to the WH painters out there.
I hate building models now because of this. I have 10+ SoB boxes sitting on the shelf unbuilt because they are such a PITA to put together now. Legs and shoulder pads do not need to be in multiple pieces... The shoulder pads end up looking worse now because you can either end up with a seam running down the middle, or if you used slightly too much glue they will get that semi-melted look.
Been building my Adeptus Titanicus models. Got to my Warmasters who are 291 and 305 piece kits. Maybe 20 are alternative weapon/head pieces. Took so long to build.
I have never played a single game yet but i kinda painted roughly 30 gaunts, a psychophage, hive tyrant, screamer killer, norn emissary, 4 dreadnoughts, the company heroes, sword breathen, intercessor squad, and custodes hehe i guess im really just into the painting and building them up. But i hope someday i can learn how to play
The more details is what I personallly like to paint as it makes for much cooler models in my opinion, I couldn't care about "blanding" techniques as I am a far more casual painter. However, I assemble a Deathleaper from the 10th edition (the newer one) and I while its a cool monopose model, some of the little claw being separated on the sprue made me lose my mind as I lost 2 of time trying to glue them one the model. that kit was a pain in the arse to assemble and I have concerns about how it will stay on its stock base as the attach points looks rather sketchy. Overall its a mixed bag... but time never been an issue as painting itself is just a hobby for me at this point... I am too far from an army as I just acquired my models.
I am still fairly new to the hobby and my first box was Tau... needless to say, this box is not complete. Since then I have painted Deathwatch, Ad Mech, and now moving onto Orks. I still look at that Tau boxset and kick myself for not finishing, but I have way too big of a pile of potential to go back now.
Lately I had really fun to build up my Arkanaut Company for the Kharadon. Only a Body, two Arms and a Head. And still enough Details on the Miniature and robust. Some Miniaturs are nowadays not Playable. For example Janus Draik from Blackstone Fortress. So fragile that it is no fun at all.
I like detailed sculpts. The extra time it takes to build is worth it for me, I love all of the details and it's actually a big reason why I prefer GW minis over other companies.
I remember painting old Belial mini when it first came out years ago. That was one of the first GW overly detailed model I painted. And it was a struggle. You keep pouring hours and hours of your time in it and it still not finished because you have to paint each and every finnicky detail sculpted in. It's just painful. Modern GW kits are the worst, they are multi-part, but not multi-pose as they used to be. I get, it looks better and provides a better pose. But then when you need to paint a second squad, your only option is to change heads.
My philosophy is this - if I can easily customize the model, then I want all the fiddly parts. If the model is monopose and only goes together in one way, then I want as few parts as possible.
I am literally building that same Combat Patrol right now. I am more of a modeler than a player... so I really enjoy the challenge of a tough model. Yes, the Inceptors are tough, but if you want to talk about Star Wars Legion... I have 800 points of Separtists... droids are harder to build imo.
Some models feel overly complicated but I am enjoying some complicated kits. I love the new Crusader squad for Templars. And I really don’t mind the intercessor kit in terms of posing options it offers. On the other hand the very complicated monopose stuff is kind of meh.
Too many parts may be an issue, yes. But when detail is, say, texture, and in particular, scales on my Seraphon, it’s a win for me. But that’s my humble 2c
In this video Adam takes time to talk about time. What you've experienced is called "biting off more than you can chew". I suffer with that, it's why I have a pile of shame... I have a Meng 1/35 Mark V male tank - it's death by 1000 pieces, almost literally! I've had it for nearly 10 years now and only finished the interior. GW stuff is a doddle in comparison.
Time management. 100%. I've been working on a project for the past 5 months. 25 titans for a participation game at Clash of the Titans. 2 weeks to go, I still have way too many to finish properly. Thankfully, 1 week of school then that 1st week of the holidays will be getting some friends together each day to work a Titan each. The project will get done! Sleep is overrated...
I am building Inceptors now, and I know what you are speaking about, I have never had such a hate for building model as for this guys. And bevare, also new jump pack intercessors are same pain :D
All the parts and bits favour the model builder rather than painter. Gunpla is a good example of where parts are prioritized over optional painting Lots of people are both, especially in warhammer. Not a time crunch type of thing for either 😅 I enjoy building a kit bashing and converting more than anything else, so I love the added bits and details I can work with. But yeah, it's not everyone especially since painting and modeling are also balanced with gaming. it's a very difficult balancing act
The Rhino chassis tanks for Legions Imperialis (Rhino and Predator so far) have separate exhaust pipes. Four exhausts per tank, three Predators to a sprue, five Rhinos, god damn *12/20* little pipes that are less than a centimeter long. WHY.
I personally found the new Tyranid models to be OK for my personal taste, though I do confess the building part is my least favourite, as I prefer to get to the painting as soon as possible. Whether they are 'too detailed' or not is a matter of personal taste. I personally think the more detailed sculpts, in some respects, are actually easier to paint because if you are a new painter washes and the contrast paints can do a lot of heavy lifting, and help to bring out the details. I think the main irony to all the extra detail is, for the majority of people who are only painting models to play with, the vast majority of those details get lost because when you are viewing them from the normal table distance, you wont see them at all. I'd say its more of an issue that all the new models are mono-pose, which is a bit annoying for certain models like for example the Von Ryan's Leapers, that can be taken in decent sized units, though from a visual standpoint I don't want to buy loads of mono-pose models. I'm more interested in Warmachine MIV at the moment at any rate, as the new Cryx stuff is going to be sweeet :D
ive given up with GW kits near enough, its got to the point where its easier to print minis than make them, not even a cost thing, a time thing. and all those details, i used to not add them now they are just sculpted in.. i dont need to paint 6 grenades !!
The search for more and more detail on minis kind of reminds me of how video games are pushing for more and more realistic graphics. Neither of those matter, so long as there's style.
The too many pieces thing has been me every time I've put together a plastic Horus Heresy dreadnought. Why are the feet and the shoulders split up into that many pieces. The process goes much faster now that I've built 3 of them but by the Emperor is it annoying. And then there's the cloak on the Praetor with the sword in the age of darkness box. Why... just why are those two chunks on both sides of the cloak cut off?
I have this same problem with Warlord models too to many parts and part options and too much gluing. I want one piece models with weapon options and some optional head stuff _maybe_ I don't want to model I want to paint. The way Atlantic does its models or Victrix does is a better approach IMO. At least with historical models you have options and much harder with GW stuff admittedly.
Hofstadter's Law: Everything takes longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law. I do wonder if some of the multiple pieces direction is to allow for different articulations so models don't all look like carbon copies of each other.
Building the krieg veterans is a bit miserable, considering how many you need, and how few points they are. I can't even bring myself to do the next 10. And it seems almost impossible to do without the instructions. The time to benefit ratio is off.
That is true. Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii models are even worse in that regard. GW are pricing them as a horde army in the game but their models are incredibly detailed. They look amazing when finished but they are a gruelling experience to paint, especially with all the under robes to paint. I painted mine in so many sub-assemblies it took forever to paint them. I've got three squads of them and GW messed about with what weapons they are allowed to be equipped with so I have to paint up some more of them and I'm not looking forward to it. Saying that, from experience the Krieg models are incredibly monopose since those gas masks have to line up with the filters on their chests so you can't even swap their heads. Lovely models but they were hard work for sure.
I for one never let failure bum me out as I learnt from Dark Souls that dying/failing is a lesson and nothing more. As for Gw the models are in to many parts imo
It’s frustrating when GW models can take so long to clean, sand, and assemble. As home 3D printing continues to improve, I wonder if and how GW will respond? Even now I can just buy a proxy for my Ork army off Etsy that looks better than some of the 20+ year-old GW sculpts, costs less, and has fewer pieces.
I do not use miniatures I have to build at all. I refuse. I come from ttrpgs, I’m used to one piece minis. It took me a long time to learn to paint them to a standard I was not embarrassed by. I am not interested in putting in additional time to learn to properly assemble the stupid minis as well. I’ll end up gluing the wrong arm on the wrong side, or forgetting to paint something before assembly and I’ll get pissed and toss the whole thing. I’ll stick with the crappy single piece minis. :p
The amount of unnecessary splices to the models are only half the problem. Having to hunt through multiple sprues for bit that should be grouped takes even more time. Not all their sprues are like that, but I've literally spent half an hour trying to find a part that then took me 30 seconds to clip, scrape and glue.
I'm not doing huge numbers of actual GW models, but I think there's probably two things happening. First, you yourself have frequently referenced their monopolistic behaviours, and this is probably another of them - there *are* good reasons to make the models like that, it's just that most of them come down to making the manufacturing *and shipping* processes much more efficient and cheaper. (I feel like a lot of the tiny bits are to make the sprues flatter, so they fit better in a smaller box. And making the box 1 cm shorter so it's 15p cheaper to ship adds up to real money on the scale GW ships on.) All companies act for their own good, of course, but when a company feels like it can largely ignore disgruntled customers, the balance between "good for the company" and "good for the customer" skews towards the company. But I wonder if the people approving the models are folks like myself, for whom the building and painting process is the entire point. For a long time I played minis games to have an excuse to paint the models. Now, I just enjoy my time painting the models and don't worry about whether or not they ever get played with, because I'm accepting of what I personally what from the hobby. Now, I'm not suggesting that the majority of GW customers are like me - but if the folks signing off on things are like me, they may not really be realising how annoying more and more people are finding the increasingly intricate models. I will say that I find a more detailed model more interesting to work on than a less detailed one. I don't paint every last detail - but look at a real life tank or infantry rifle. An actual C7 rifle basically has three colours on it: black plastic, green plastic, and black metal. An M16 probably has only two colours on it: black or tan plastic, and black metal. But both of these things have a bunch of little details all over them - they're just all the same colour. So being able to paint my miniature rifle one or two colours but still see safeties, takedown buttons, and so on if I peer closely at the figure appeals to me. And when I *do* want to paint them, I find it a lot easier to paint a raised or debossed detail than to freehand it. So I suspect that all the detailling is aimed at the *beginner* - remember, at least until the pandemic, the vast majority of GW's sales were to parents buying things for their teenagers, and so most of GW's stuff is aimed at generating "80% of the pros" level results for low-skill, beginner hobbyists. Lots of molded-in detail seems to me to fit that ethos.
The detail on GW minis also just make them look like a mess. Often I find myself looking at new GW releases and it takes me a minute to parse what I'm seeing. The Sylvaneth model is a prime example of this. He's got so much detail it's just hard to make out what it is I'm seeing. It's just visual noise.
I don’t even enjoy building sensible plastic figures. If all there was were GW figures where the leg is three pieces that only fit together one way, I would leave the hobby entirely. Thank god I can still get metal historicals.
The inceptors are some of my favorite models. They were hard but I felt very satisfied when they were done. Now their flight atands were the worst... I hate those
I disagree. Click-bait is when there’s no payoff. When you show things in the thumbnail that aren’t in the video, or when a claim is made in the title that isn’t backed up by the content. My title was exactly what it said on the tin. Thanks for watching.
@@tabletopminions Click bait doesn't necessarily mean that there is no payoff. Click bait is also using text designed to attract attention and to entice users to click using sensationalized headlines. Your title was an overdramatization of your content. You can use elements of click bait methodology which is what you are doing. I don't blame you, it is what I expect from content creators, aggrandizement in order to attract views. Thanks for your response
I've learnt something recently about "the hobby". I build wargame miniatures, but a family member who builds scale models recently gave me a 1/35 tank, as a challenge. The component parts of which are ridiculously overcomplicated. No one needs to have tank track links in 3 pieces. But I realised that the scale model builders amongst us are into the process of the build. My chieftain tank now has a lovely enamel red paint scheme, and will soon have a lively grot crew, but it impressed upon me that some modellers are just into "the build" and the more parts and the more complexity the better.
The most advanced build I've probably made was a resin Cerastus Castigator Knight. Having to create my own pose from scratch and cut and position every piston to fit the pose was daunting but some modelling projects you just take at your own pace and enjoy the process. The problem I have with modern GW kits is not that they are made from lots of parts, it's that those parts often aren't recognisable until they are fitted to the model. Instead of an arm you might get a random chunk of plastic that fits to a random piece of plastic to make an arm. Sometimes it's hard to tell how the parts fit, so you just rotate them randomly until the parts just sort of mesh together. Gone are the days of ill-fitting pegs I suppose.
It's cars rather than tanks for me, but yes I do like kits with a lot of parts. Not so much from the POV of "yay complexity", but an engine that's split up into block, head, exhaust etc has way more opportunities to paint the individual bits and it look more like a miniature engine than an approximation of an engine, which some of the simpler kits have.
It’s so weirdly fascinating.... this hobby, I mean. With GW rereleasing the old WHF models for TOW, you have so many people complaining about the relative simplicity of the old sculpts. Also the people who complain about the lack of detail and options on the push fit versions of more recent kits. Apparently, if we believe the statistics, the vast majority of GW’s customers are hobbyists who seldom or never actually play a game of 40k or AoS. So clearly, it’s in the company’s best interest to design a product that caters to the builder, customizer and painter... not the person who’s trying to get 2000 points on the table in a week.
One guy in our group quited the hobby after one and a half decades because tyranids (his main army) got a range update in 10th edition... You cannot make all people happy.
I mean, you're not wrong about the "average" 40K customer. The customer is now someone who buys a lot of new models, poorly assembles them, doesn't paint them, but spends 92% of their time complaining or arguing about a game they don't play. You see the same customer in D&D. They're a customer of the idea...not the actual game. Which is good, as neither of the games is particularly good! :D
Think about this how much warhammer do you think a carefull moddeler buys and how much warhammer a 2000 points in a week for a tournament guy buys. Guy like that (aka me) are likely the whales of the miniture industry
Personally I hated the push fit of my command edition starter set and when I got my first full Intercessors kit I was was happier with how everything came together. The building is actually my favorite part, so I'm biased and enjoy all the smaller pieces. It's like graduating from regular LEGO to Technic for me. As for the detail, I really appreciate the effort and details going into the sculpts. I'm reminded of a great quote: "I don't know the key to success, but I know the key to failure is to try and please everyone."
About over-detailing - a possible explanation to its increase on GW models is that they aren't necessarily aimed at professional level painters exclusively. The higher the level of detail is, the more work things like contrast paints and washes do on the model - something that's not really a net benefit when you're already doing all your texturing and rendering "by hand" while painting, but that allows simpler and faster painting methods to look better than they would on more plain and smooth surfaces.
Ya I have a similar issue~ I’m new to this painting miniature. I am so frustrated that the result felt better with contrast paint + washes… than put in hours to base coat and trying to fix all the mistake during some of the highlight and painting those tiny stuff on them.
Posted something similar and then saw this. This is 100% true. It doesn't have to be detail per se - it's more about the texture than about detail per se, and GW is sometimes guilty of loading up the details when really they would be better off just focusing on lines and texture instead - but sharp lines and a general lack of open empty space on models is a great boon to those of us who are intermediate level painters. The easiest way to make models look good on the table even if you aren't a professional painter is to have good contrast, and sharply delineated surfaces and good texture make that far easier to achieve. The big open smooth surface is one of the hardest things to do well in miniature painting, and I'm not sad that GW doesn't cater more to the professional painters who see that as a plus rather than a minus. There's plenty of other miniatures designed for display painting for people who want a freer canvas to express their skill on.
@@assistantref5084 I would say, this is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it does genuinely make fast painting methods (contrast paints, speedpaint, etc) return much better results than they would on a blander model; On the other hand, for people trying to improve their painting, especially when they are already intermediate painters who want to try more complex stuff, but are not yet comfortable enough with the brush to tackle very small details, this can possibly make painting more difficult. Personally, I still like the amount of detail that GW puts on their models these days, but I acknowledge they can be a problem for numerous reasons and for people at many painting skill levels.
@@AlikUncle Personally, if I only ever had smooth surfaces to work on, I never would have got to even the decent journeyman level I'm currently at. The big revelation for me was figuring out contrast (the concept, not the paints, which I have never used), and I wouldn't have done that with big smooth surfaces - I would have just gotten frustrated with my inability to produce convincing contrast using blending and shading the way the pros do, and then written off good-looking miniatures as something only the truly talented and/or trained could do, akin to flat canvas painting. FWIW weirdly I don't think GW miniatures actually look all that great painted the way GW painters paint miniatures. GW puts way too much priority on clean brushwork and edge highlighting and way too little on contrast and volumetric shading, and it doesn't actually showcase the strengths of the miniatures.
I painted a full napoleonic regiment during lockdown (something over 1,000 minis) and after taking a break, I recently got back into it after visiting the Games Workshop cafe in Tokyo in January. I hadn't really followed any GW stuff or news in the past 15 or so years (at least from the hobby side of things) so I picked up the Exaction Squad Kill team thinking it would be a nice little intro back into sci fi side of wargaming (plus they remind me a lot of Judge Dredd lol) but I was amazed/shocked at how many parts and sprues I got in the box. I think assembling the squad of 10 and the cybermastiff, I'm still left with 60% unused bits and pieces from the various customisation options. Even the instructions and the sprue numbering for the parts was a lot more confusing than I seem to remember. 😅
i also feel that the way gw have designed their newer models have been designed specifically to limit if not bar compatiblity with third party pieces. the old simple cadian models were clearly defined separate sections like torsos were one part, legs were one to two parts and it was easy to swap in alternative parts even from within their own range to spice things up but now with the new cadians it's an utter pain in the ass to do it
In my opinion the Direction they have taken forgets one major thing , these figures are toys used to play a game. And all these fancy doodads they are slapping on everything just make them more delicate. It's also making them more and more scarce on my painting table .
You see this a LOT with modern Kits, Orks being the most obvious since they still sell the old multipart kits and the new monopose kit so Ork players are left with a choice...do you get the much better looking but fixed loadout updated boyz, meaning if you want a squad of all shootas or all sluggas and choppas you need to do some very awkward kitbashing OR do you get the much derpier looking, smaller multipart boyz kit? Was hoping one of the big reveals for Orks in 10th would have been a new multipart kit...but GW seem to be moving away from multipart kits for the reason you gave...so people can't use 3rd party parts very easily anymore.
@@CharlesEntrekin- see thats where yer wrong. Citadel is a MODEL company that just happens to have a game, not a game company with good models. Theyve never been a game company, the models are an excuse to sell you a game.
@DismemberTheAlamo you are correct. The hobby is modeling, painting, and playing. The whole game existd to sell these models. What cracks me up most is people will cry about the part count or the fiddly bits while also bemoaning the price point. These models are expensive because they're generally a high detail and quality than anything else on the market. This video just makes me think this guy is a shit modeler and painter who overloaded himself with work and then cry posted about parts because he needs content
The Briggs/Chase Law of program development (this applies to A LOT more than programming): To determine how long it will take to write and debug a program, take your best estimate, multiply that by two, add one, and convert to the next higher unit of measure. For example, if you estimate (truly think) it will take you 6 weeks, then: 6 weeks * 2 = 12 weeks. add 1 = 13 weeks. then convert to the next highest unit of measure: 13 months. It will probably take 13 months. This, in my 40 years of software development and project management, has turned out to be incredibly accurate. Just sayin' :) "Failure" is where learning happens! good video, thank you.
Okay, as a firmware engineer with but 20 years of experience, I thought I had it sorted, but you've taken this to a whole new level of mathematical precision. Thank you for this comment.
Ive been building a witch hunter Mordheim warband using frostgrave kits and gw models. The frostgrave kits have been way more fun to hobby and be creative❤
As someone who just wants to "play the darn game", with age has come a new mantra when assembling and especially painting: "It's not just good... **wink, nod, finger gun** It's good enough."
Shout out to Troy, Sonic Sledgehammer, his righteous crusade to bring Marine Juice to the masses might be the single most helpful thing to get your minis on the table with minimal fuss. The over-detailed models are a way to sell shades and contrasts, which GW painting instructions rely on, no?
We had this conversation at my FLGS, GW does have the prettiest models out there that isn't coming from a bespoke shop and artist. But we don't need every grunt model to be ready, off the sprue, to go compete in the Golden Demon. We don't need minis we are afraid to touch fo fear of breaking them, we need minis we can play with, scoop up by the handful to charge the enemy position, and ones that won't shatter when we accidentally knock them over. Army commander, big bad whatever on your team, sure, those you can make as fancy as possible. Everything else make it easy to tell what it is from across the table, but let's go back to as simple as possible. Is that too much to ask? Also in the gaming space, saw a discussion on a board games forum, and board games have gotten so wildly complicated, when a creator asked the group what they wanted to see over the next year or so, the answer was a cry for simpler. Make simpler games that don't take up cubic yards of shelf space and an entire weekend to play. We have plenty of those games, we want a small taste of something different that we don't feel bad for taking that taste because it didn't take a lot of time to do it.
Overly detailed GW minis is something I was complaining about 15 years ago. Between that and the prices I’ve long since stopped buying GW minis and use alternate manufacturers now.
Modern GW models mostly killed my joy of BUILDING models. I am more of a builder and converter, and have fond memories of clipping a whole regiment of 20 Orcs from their sprues - torso, legs, two arms and a head per model - and build them: picking my parts of choice, mixing things as I go along, and ending up with a bunch of "my dud... Orcs" at the end. This is completely impossible today. Not only is each model an unreasonable amount of parts, you also HAVE to follow the instruction. You need half a degree in aerospace engineering or years of experience in following IKEA instructions, and it JUST IS NOT FUN AT ALL. Not cool GW, not cool at all.
I feel the exact same way about many GW models - SO many parts that dont need to be separate!! it's so frustrating because it's always some tiny thing, even if it's a midsized model. I'm convinced they just want to fill out the sprue frame so that it's packed, so that it feels like you're "getting more".
@@BattlebrotherPhil up to a certain point.. one of the models i got has like a grill with a lot of spikes sticking out. in between 2 of the spikes was an empty hole with the instructions to cut out a spike and glue it into the hole. That's not complexity that's just stupid.
@@SmashingSnow They're a minimum of 12 pieces each, plus the base, and need building in stages with time for glue to cure in my opinion. Makes them easier to convert than Goliaths, Orlocks or Corpse Grinders but putting a starting gang together became a chore and I usually enjoy building over painting.
Me when my date sees my 5000p of Space Marines and politely finds an excuse to leave
I kept my hobby a secret until after my marriage, and then she was to late to run. LOL
You'll have more satisfaction from your 5000pts of Space Marines than you would have got from a woman like that :P
Are they painted?
Surely that's a tick in the "pro" column? "Capable of long-term commitment in the face of adversity."
She saw how small your point count was, and left to find someone with an ork army, with an order of magnitude more points... She wasn't looking for some low-effort scrub.
@@andrewamann2821God this feels like one of those terrible "Sorry we don't let anyone with below 1 million power score into this club/resturant/venue" shitty mobile ads but with WarHams.
"I sat down early Sunday morning to start building those Inceptors." Aaah, Inceptors... and here I was expecting to hear all about getting the damn things on those flying sticks! 😂 Interesting points about picking what and where to 'fail,' especially with self-imposed targets and goals in a hobby like this. Thanks for the Pshaow! ✌
GW drain me and after 37 years I stopped buying them 😢
I have flipped to Mantic and my hobby energy has burst back to life! Easy to build not to busy and they look great in squads!
If GW ever go back to hobby and not a life style I’ll head back over.
One of the answers you seek and GW won`t give us is slide molding (when the mold have more than just 2 parts). I saw GW using that only on some Baneblade parts only. That alone could give us less parts and pre-drilled barrels. Lots of scale model manufactures use that because it`s hard to sell another Panther kit without new cool features. Gunpla kits use that very often (and we won`t talk about pre-assembled movable parts on sprue like in RG line). Sure GW can afford that if they want.
But yeah, mostly it`s sculpting choices having lots of small unnecessary details...
As soon as you mentioned Redemptor and Inceptors, I knew the pain. I would like more for my marines, but I remember the pain of building them. I also find the new kits take forever. I sit down saturday lunchtime with a couple of kits at most. Maybe by 8pm I might be done building them. By that time, I’m done, mentally exhausted. I hobby to unwind from work, but I need a way to unwind from the hobby at times.
I'm currently assembling some Kill Teams after years out of the wargame scene, and they absolutely have been splitting parts into sub-assemblies to an irritating degree. And it's all still monopose!
The most egregious "weird cut" I remember seeing is a push-fit Stormcast where one piece was the head, one foot and a thin slice of the back connecting one to the other!
Honestly, part of me has suspected that the complexity of the kits is to discourage conversions & kitbashing; I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I remember James Hewitt saying on The Painting Phase that kits are designed to make sure that you can't just kitbash that unit yourself from existing kits.
I'm relatively new to Games Workshop games and just finished the assembly of a Deathleaper... my god, so, so, many pieces! I never would have expected it to take as long as it did for me to assemble a single model.
I remember when they used to be so simple, maybe a shield here and there, an extra head or two to chose from, arm with a sword or a spear. Painted up fairly quickly for mass units. Now I look at a box for a minute or two, think how much work it would be to assemble, put it back on the shelve, and then order a bunch of Mantic or Oathmark units.
I enjoy the building process. I always build long before I paint. Time constraint will make anything enjoyable less so because you feel the crunch.
Totally agree. I tried to get back into GW... wow four years ago, with a SoB army and man, each mini was like a jigsaw of parts. That project floundered after just a squad and an HQ.
The new LotR plastic heroes are the worst offenders. They're single-pose, sometimes with a weapon/shield/head option, and not being heroic scale means they are much more delicate when taking them off their spurs. Some really good sculpts in there (and some slightly less good) but way too much effort and not enough of a step up from the old metal blister packs in terms of detail and quality. The angles involved in some of the joins are so unnatural, and pieces fit between multiple different pieces for some reason - Eomer's spear piece has a bit of the horsetail from his helmet. Why. WHY?! I didn't notice I'd got it wrong and part of the horsetail is just unseated until I started painting it.
I have to admit I'm not a big fan of the construction of the newer GW kits. I don't like how mono-pose they are which interferes with kitbashing, and I don't care for all the fiddly bits to glue together, and too many have way too much weight balanced on one tiny thin bit of plastic instead of just using a perfectly functional clear stand. Then of course you have the price tags but that's always been a GW problem.
Silver lining though, a lot of them are very pretty sculpts. Painting hordes of them for squad after squad can get rather... daunting however.
I think it is good to have quality, high-detailled models. But sometimes, I just want/need a lot of fodder which makes me nostalgic for the good old one-print sideways models. Just a single, solid "meeple" which will enforce your will in regiments of 40 on the table.
I loved the new guardsmen models when they were revealed. Then I built a squad of them and had to face the prospect of painting them. I have a simple color scheme for my regiment but these guys were a nightmare. All this new detail should be great but now each dude is at least 5x more stuff to paint and detail - and it wasn't optional either as so much of it covers up torso and leg space. Suddenly I have to worry about what color the puttees are. My old guardsmen wear brown boots. There's hooks and clips and buckles and all sorts of strapping, belts, ropes and webbing, random knives, pockets and grenades.... ugh. Up close they look fantastic. But from 3+ feet away next to all the rest of the (old) models they don't do anything different for me or my opponent. Sometimes from 3 feet away they look more like a confused mess of color and detail - not from bad painting but the simple fact one doesn't need max definition/resolution at distance. From 3 feet away all my old troopers have that stuff as well... I just dont need to see it. This video was great but reminded me how sad I am about the state of the current guard... and lets not even get into how GW treats people who actually try to play their "games" lol
I feel your pain. I'm building a mix of gw and northstar models for 5 parsecs. Prepping the gw stuff is making my eyeballs ache. The northstar minis are simpler but they still look cool and have loads of character.
I totally agree, GW's models are getting to complex, I have a disability which is slowly destroying my muscles and find it extremely hard to build models these days, it's a barrier to getting to the painting stage which is the most enjoyable part of the hobby for me. I actually ended up throwing my last GW model in the bin (an Oldworld Britonion knight on Pegasus) because I got so frustrated with it and covered it in way too much glue. I've recently placed a large order for Ravaged Star miniatures which are a slightly larger scale and all of which require no assembly whatsoever.
All the extra parts is for all the extra detail and undercuts GW is putting on their models. I think they're overcompensating at this point. Years ago, they were the best wargaming plastics. Then Wargames Factory (Chinese manufacturer) came on the scene doing the plastics for Kingdom Death, Malifeaux, Dreamforge Games, and others, and GW's plastics were obviously not up to that level of detail, undercuts, assembly, etc. So GW went that direction with all the undercuts, all the details, and ALL THE PARTS.
I agree with you 100%. I grew up on single piece metals, and I honestly miss that mentality. We can make detailed models without needing them to be a dozen plus parts per dude. Models, especially wargaming models, should have the fewest steps possible between purchase and being able to be used. And some companies like GW, Wyrd ,and even a lot of newer Mantic stuff, forget this for thr sake of pointless posing and "detail" that's actually just greebly bullshit that ends up making the models look busy.
Gove me as few parts as huma ly possible, hell I'll even take push-fit (the Warhammer Underworlds models look great *and* don't take an hour to build) over fiddly, overly complicated assemblies that just make me question if this hobby is even for me anymore.
I like your comment of just because a sculptor sculpted it that doesnt mean you have to paint it. I do like all the detail to be there when I really want to make a paintjob shine but its so freeing to not feel like I have address each and every minute element. After 30 years of being around this hobby do paint this way. I do what needs to be done to tabletop finish a model. And then afterwards I will ...or maybe never ...go back in to touch up details. To be honest unless its a focal point detail thing... I rarely go back.
Thank you! I recently bought a unit of skeletons for the Old World and each unit model is a minimum 6 parts! They're tiny, fiddly and it's totally unnecessary, especially on rank and file. Who's going to need to have all that dynamic posing on what are, basically, cannon fodder and just there to make up a rank bonus. Plus I need time to fit together easily so I have to keep things tight anyway or I can only put the 36 of them together in a set order!
I thought I'd have them done in an afternoon and painted in a day as they are only skeletons but I've been trying to make time for weeks now and it's so daunting it's switched from something i look forward to to another job on my to do list!
Aaaaand breathe. Lastly, just want to say I'm loving the channel, keep those videos coming!
I think I am going to have to schedule my Chicago visit for work around Adepticon next year so I can actually attend for once.
My group now have ubiquitous 3D prints. We recently decided to do a collective project for the English Civil War. There are no good stls for figures there so we went for Warlord plastic figures. Half of us gave up, and bought replacement metals from Foundry. Nobody should have to spend time building pointlessly multi-part fiddly little miniatures. The most I'll accept now are the excellent Victrix sculpts that usually come in 2-3 parts (body, head, weapon arms). GW kits are an absolute joke.
I played 40k in late second edition all the way through 4th. I returned to GW about a year ago (and the hobby as a whole). I was shocked at how fiddly the new models are. While I truly hate all the tiny pieces, I'm more frustrated by how this movement has impacted my hobby life. I'm thinking about how all of the early plastic kits were broken up in a way that made kit bashing and modeling easy. Now everyone's models look the same. This is made worse by there literally being one sculpt for each hero. I get GW has to make money. I don't begrudge them that, but things have certainly changed.
Some people find their joy from the building process, and I believe they are in some small part catering to them with all the pieces... I am not one of those people. I loved Leviathan and how easy those models were to put together for that exact reason.
Couldn't agree more, some of the heads for Necromunda (Escher and Enforcers are my recent experience) are 2 piece (and in some cases 3 if you count the ponytails). Why does the face and the head need to be separate, for the Escher it does allow you to mix hairstyles with faces but for the Enforcers they are all the same helmet!
Gee-dubs is definitely hitting a new level for model details... But that may not be a good thing. Take the Adeptus Titanicus Reaver titan for example - the first 15 steps of assembly are just for the legs.
Also, give Heavy Gear another chance!! The pdf version of the rulebook is free on the drive thru rpg site.
I wonder if the hyper-detail level isn't the result of (as some others have commented) making it easier for Contrast Paints to do their thing, and also making the models more legally distinct from the 3D proxies out there. Personally, I don't mind if more pieces = more flexibility in posing the figures, but that often is not the case.
There are a lot of great 3D sculpts out there, but honestly, I don't like the 'feel' of the resin. Maybe it's because I'm used to the GW plastic (which we have to admit, has gotten quite good). If you don't share that sentiment, then don't buy GW figures, and the marketplace will shape their future decisions... :)
I'm relatively casual with the hobby. Spru and bur removal is the worst, and I discovered through Gundam models that I just cant seem to do it very well. I tend to get models that are 1 piece for this exact reason. It's also why I am nervous about painting WH models. They are pricy, and there is a solid chance I screw them up before even setting up my wet palette. Respect to the WH painters out there.
I hate building models now because of this. I have 10+ SoB boxes sitting on the shelf unbuilt because they are such a PITA to put together now. Legs and shoulder pads do not need to be in multiple pieces... The shoulder pads end up looking worse now because you can either end up with a seam running down the middle, or if you used slightly too much glue they will get that semi-melted look.
Not something I've thought of in a while but yeah, the Nubbins Effect. You have to sand down the flashing for more and more parts...
GW "What if this part was four parts?"
Wyrd "Hold my beer!"
Wyrd "Four parts? that's just the head on this model"
I can here that zombie chihuahua giggling.
Been building my Adeptus Titanicus models. Got to my Warmasters who are 291 and 305 piece kits. Maybe 20 are alternative weapon/head pieces. Took so long to build.
I have never played a single game yet but i kinda painted roughly 30 gaunts, a psychophage, hive tyrant, screamer killer, norn emissary, 4 dreadnoughts, the company heroes, sword breathen, intercessor squad, and custodes hehe i guess im really just into the painting and building them up. But i hope someday i can learn how to play
The more details is what I personallly like to paint as it makes for much cooler models in my opinion, I couldn't care about "blanding" techniques as I am a far more casual painter.
However, I assemble a Deathleaper from the 10th edition (the newer one) and I while its a cool monopose model, some of the little claw being separated on the sprue made me lose my mind as I lost 2 of time trying to glue them one the model.
that kit was a pain in the arse to assemble and I have concerns about how it will stay on its stock base as the attach points looks rather sketchy.
Overall its a mixed bag... but time never been an issue as painting itself is just a hobby for me at this point... I am too far from an army as I just acquired my models.
I am still fairly new to the hobby and my first box was Tau... needless to say, this box is not complete. Since then I have painted Deathwatch, Ad Mech, and now moving onto Orks. I still look at that Tau boxset and kick myself for not finishing, but I have way too big of a pile of potential to go back now.
Lately I had really fun to build up my Arkanaut Company for the Kharadon. Only a Body, two Arms and a Head. And still enough Details on the Miniature and robust. Some Miniaturs are nowadays not Playable. For example Janus Draik from Blackstone Fortress. So fragile that it is no fun at all.
It's like my father always told me. "Lad, diamonds are forged under pressure... but you... you're just coal."
I like detailed sculpts.
The extra time it takes to build is worth it for me, I love all of the details and it's actually a big reason why I prefer GW minis over other companies.
I remember painting old Belial mini when it first came out years ago. That was one of the first GW overly detailed model I painted. And it was a struggle. You keep pouring hours and hours of your time in it and it still not finished because you have to paint each and every finnicky detail sculpted in. It's just painful. Modern GW kits are the worst, they are multi-part, but not multi-pose as they used to be. I get, it looks better and provides a better pose. But then when you need to paint a second squad, your only option is to change heads.
My philosophy is this - if I can easily customize the model, then I want all the fiddly parts. If the model is monopose and only goes together in one way, then I want as few parts as possible.
I am literally building that same Combat Patrol right now. I am more of a modeler than a player... so I really enjoy the challenge of a tough model. Yes, the Inceptors are tough, but if you want to talk about Star Wars Legion... I have 800 points of Separtists... droids are harder to build imo.
"You never have as much time as you think" is a universally good motto.
Some models feel overly complicated but I am enjoying some complicated kits.
I love the new Crusader squad for Templars. And I really don’t mind the intercessor kit in terms of posing options it offers.
On the other hand the very complicated monopose stuff is kind of meh.
Too many parts may be an issue, yes. But when detail is, say, texture, and in particular, scales on my Seraphon, it’s a win for me. But that’s my humble 2c
The new Saurus look bloody amazing. And had they been in fewer parts, they would have looked worse. That is just a fact of plastic engineering
In this video Adam takes time to talk about time. What you've experienced is called "biting off more than you can chew". I suffer with that, it's why I have a pile of shame... I have a Meng 1/35 Mark V male tank - it's death by 1000 pieces, almost literally! I've had it for nearly 10 years now and only finished the interior. GW stuff is a doddle in comparison.
Dude that leather coat was incredible. Well done setting a goal and absolutely smashing it 😮😊
Time management. 100%. I've been working on a project for the past 5 months. 25 titans for a participation game at Clash of the Titans. 2 weeks to go, I still have way too many to finish properly. Thankfully, 1 week of school then that 1st week of the holidays will be getting some friends together each day to work a Titan each. The project will get done! Sleep is overrated...
I am building Inceptors now, and I know what you are speaking about, I have never had such a hate for building model as for this guys. And bevare, also new jump pack intercessors are same pain :D
All the parts and bits favour the model builder rather than painter. Gunpla is a good example of where parts are prioritized over optional painting
Lots of people are both, especially in warhammer. Not a time crunch type of thing for either 😅
I enjoy building a kit bashing and converting more than anything else, so I love the added bits and details I can work with. But yeah, it's not everyone especially since painting and modeling are also balanced with gaming. it's a very difficult balancing act
The Rhino chassis tanks for Legions Imperialis (Rhino and Predator so far) have separate exhaust pipes. Four exhausts per tank, three Predators to a sprue, five Rhinos, god damn *12/20* little pipes that are less than a centimeter long.
WHY.
I personally found the new Tyranid models to be OK for my personal taste, though I do confess the building part is my least favourite, as I prefer to get to the painting as soon as possible. Whether they are 'too detailed' or not is a matter of personal taste. I personally think the more detailed sculpts, in some respects, are actually easier to paint because if you are a new painter washes and the contrast paints can do a lot of heavy lifting, and help to bring out the details.
I think the main irony to all the extra detail is, for the majority of people who are only painting models to play with, the vast majority of those details get lost because when you are viewing them from the normal table distance, you wont see them at all. I'd say its more of an issue that all the new models are mono-pose, which is a bit annoying for certain models like for example the Von Ryan's Leapers, that can be taken in decent sized units, though from a visual standpoint I don't want to buy loads of mono-pose models.
I'm more interested in Warmachine MIV at the moment at any rate, as the new Cryx stuff is going to be sweeet :D
ive given up with GW kits near enough, its got to the point where its easier to print minis than make them, not even a cost thing, a time thing. and all those details, i used to not add them now they are just sculpted in.. i dont need to paint 6 grenades !!
The search for more and more detail on minis kind of reminds me of how video games are pushing for more and more realistic graphics. Neither of those matter, so long as there's style.
The too many pieces thing has been me every time I've put together a plastic Horus Heresy dreadnought. Why are the feet and the shoulders split up into that many pieces. The process goes much faster now that I've built 3 of them but by the Emperor is it annoying. And then there's the cloak on the Praetor with the sword in the age of darkness box. Why... just why are those two chunks on both sides of the cloak cut off?
I always find GW pieces take me about twice as long as I think they will.
So I've been building three Land Raiders for...reasons, and I've really enjoyed this older kit.
I found the Redempter Dreadnought unnecessarily complex with all the moving parts that, let's be real, won't move once the whole thing is painted.
I like that Atom says that ”we don't have as much time as we think” as a comment about being busy but it in fact is incredibly powerful memento mori
As I was editing, I did realize this. As I was recording it, I didn’t really. Thanks for watching!
How do you deal with failure? oof… Learning I suppose, learning from your mistakes.
I have this same problem with Warlord models too to many parts and part options and too much gluing. I want one piece models with weapon options and some optional head stuff _maybe_ I don't want to model I want to paint. The way Atlantic does its models or Victrix does is a better approach IMO. At least with historical models you have options and much harder with GW stuff admittedly.
I loved old fantasy and 40k models, simple yet so beautiful.
I’ve yet to build a single Primaris anything, I’m looking forward to it haha
Hofstadter's Law: Everything takes longer than you think, even if you account for Hofstadter's Law. I do wonder if some of the multiple pieces direction is to allow for different articulations so models don't all look like carbon copies of each other.
Building the krieg veterans is a bit miserable, considering how many you need, and how few points they are. I can't even bring myself to do the next 10. And it seems almost impossible to do without the instructions. The time to benefit ratio is off.
That is true. Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii models are even worse in that regard. GW are pricing them as a horde army in the game but their models are incredibly detailed. They look amazing when finished but they are a gruelling experience to paint, especially with all the under robes to paint. I painted mine in so many sub-assemblies it took forever to paint them. I've got three squads of them and GW messed about with what weapons they are allowed to be equipped with so I have to paint up some more of them and I'm not looking forward to it. Saying that, from experience the Krieg models are incredibly monopose since those gas masks have to line up with the filters on their chests so you can't even swap their heads. Lovely models but they were hard work for sure.
Here’s me buying 3D and third party bits to make my models even more complicated 0.0
5:10
Dreadnoughts... are not easy, set and done painting projects... i learned that the hard way with mine...😅 and i still have to paint another 2 😢
Those Redemptor hips 🤬🤬 nearly made me stop building the model. But yeah, parts count: the original Tigurius was 2 pieces, the plastic one is like 27…
I for one never let failure bum me out as I learnt from Dark Souls that dying/failing is a lesson and nothing more. As for Gw the models are in to many parts imo
It’s frustrating when GW models can take so long to clean, sand, and assemble. As home 3D printing continues to improve, I wonder if and how GW will respond? Even now I can just buy a proxy for my Ork army off Etsy that looks better than some of the 20+ year-old GW sculpts, costs less, and has fewer pieces.
I do not use miniatures I have to build at all. I refuse. I come from ttrpgs, I’m used to one piece minis. It took me a long time to learn to paint them to a standard I was not embarrassed by. I am not interested in putting in additional time to learn to properly assemble the stupid minis as well.
I’ll end up gluing the wrong arm on the wrong side, or forgetting to paint something before assembly and I’ll get pissed and toss the whole thing.
I’ll stick with the crappy single piece minis. :p
That leather coat *chefs kiss*
That’s very nice of you to say. Thanks for watching!
GW models have edged this way. AMG and Wyrd have fully embraced it. I find GW models utterly simple and quick by comparison.
The amount of unnecessary splices to the models are only half the problem. Having to hunt through multiple sprues for bit that should be grouped takes even more time. Not all their sprues are like that, but I've literally spent half an hour trying to find a part that then took me 30 seconds to clip, scrape and glue.
It great when you pull up a video to procrastinate and then the video says "You never have as much time as you think" multiple times.
Big project this two weeks…. This was a very timely video for me on time management.
I'm not doing huge numbers of actual GW models, but I think there's probably two things happening. First, you yourself have frequently referenced their monopolistic behaviours, and this is probably another of them - there *are* good reasons to make the models like that, it's just that most of them come down to making the manufacturing *and shipping* processes much more efficient and cheaper. (I feel like a lot of the tiny bits are to make the sprues flatter, so they fit better in a smaller box. And making the box 1 cm shorter so it's 15p cheaper to ship adds up to real money on the scale GW ships on.) All companies act for their own good, of course, but when a company feels like it can largely ignore disgruntled customers, the balance between "good for the company" and "good for the customer" skews towards the company.
But I wonder if the people approving the models are folks like myself, for whom the building and painting process is the entire point. For a long time I played minis games to have an excuse to paint the models. Now, I just enjoy my time painting the models and don't worry about whether or not they ever get played with, because I'm accepting of what I personally what from the hobby. Now, I'm not suggesting that the majority of GW customers are like me - but if the folks signing off on things are like me, they may not really be realising how annoying more and more people are finding the increasingly intricate models.
I will say that I find a more detailed model more interesting to work on than a less detailed one. I don't paint every last detail - but look at a real life tank or infantry rifle. An actual C7 rifle basically has three colours on it: black plastic, green plastic, and black metal. An M16 probably has only two colours on it: black or tan plastic, and black metal. But both of these things have a bunch of little details all over them - they're just all the same colour. So being able to paint my miniature rifle one or two colours but still see safeties, takedown buttons, and so on if I peer closely at the figure appeals to me. And when I *do* want to paint them, I find it a lot easier to paint a raised or debossed detail than to freehand it. So I suspect that all the detailling is aimed at the *beginner* - remember, at least until the pandemic, the vast majority of GW's sales were to parents buying things for their teenagers, and so most of GW's stuff is aimed at generating "80% of the pros" level results for low-skill, beginner hobbyists. Lots of molded-in detail seems to me to fit that ethos.
The detail on GW minis also just make them look like a mess. Often I find myself looking at new GW releases and it takes me a minute to parse what I'm seeing. The Sylvaneth model is a prime example of this. He's got so much detail it's just hard to make out what it is I'm seeing. It's just visual noise.
I don’t even enjoy building sensible plastic figures. If all there was were GW figures where the leg is three pieces that only fit together one way, I would leave the hobby entirely. Thank god I can still get metal historicals.
The inceptors are some of my favorite models. They were hard but I felt very satisfied when they were done.
Now their flight atands were the worst... I hate those
You know every time you get a like some where in the universe a space marine dies
"Can I take this 1 part and make it 4?" 20+ years of GW truth in a single statement.
Three parts for a leg!! That could turn any build into a chore
You left out that whoever numbers the parts on the sprues at GW hates the hobbyists who build them.
0:11 "I know the title of the video seems provocative" is a nuanced way to see click bait. I hope you do better next time
I disagree. Click-bait is when there’s no payoff. When you show things in the thumbnail that aren’t in the video, or when a claim is made in the title that isn’t backed up by the content. My title was exactly what it said on the tin. Thanks for watching.
@@tabletopminions Click bait doesn't necessarily mean that there is no payoff. Click bait is also using text designed to attract attention and to entice users to click using sensationalized headlines. Your title was an overdramatization of your content. You can use elements of click bait methodology which is what you are doing. I don't blame you, it is what I expect from content creators, aggrandizement in order to attract views. Thanks for your response
I've learnt something recently about "the hobby". I build wargame miniatures, but a family member who builds scale models recently gave me a 1/35 tank, as a challenge. The component parts of which are ridiculously overcomplicated. No one needs to have tank track links in 3 pieces. But I realised that the scale model builders amongst us are into the process of the build.
My chieftain tank now has a lovely enamel red paint scheme, and will soon have a lively grot crew, but it impressed upon me that some modellers are just into "the build" and the more parts and the more complexity the better.
I’m here for the building and painting! Not a fan of models that come already almost built !
@minishaw280 me too. I don't play, but love kitbashing my ever growing ork army. Every one of which is different.
The most advanced build I've probably made was a resin Cerastus Castigator Knight. Having to create my own pose from scratch and cut and position every piston to fit the pose was daunting but some modelling projects you just take at your own pace and enjoy the process. The problem I have with modern GW kits is not that they are made from lots of parts, it's that those parts often aren't recognisable until they are fitted to the model. Instead of an arm you might get a random chunk of plastic that fits to a random piece of plastic to make an arm. Sometimes it's hard to tell how the parts fit, so you just rotate them randomly until the parts just sort of mesh together. Gone are the days of ill-fitting pegs I suppose.
Wait until you find out the really serious builders replace 30% of the model with even more complex photo-etched replacement parts.
It's cars rather than tanks for me, but yes I do like kits with a lot of parts. Not so much from the POV of "yay complexity", but an engine that's split up into block, head, exhaust etc has way more opportunities to paint the individual bits and it look more like a miniature engine than an approximation of an engine, which some of the simpler kits have.
It’s so weirdly fascinating.... this hobby, I mean. With GW rereleasing the old WHF models for TOW, you have so many people complaining about the relative simplicity of the old sculpts. Also the people who complain about the lack of detail and options on the push fit versions of more recent kits. Apparently, if we believe the statistics, the vast majority of GW’s customers are hobbyists who seldom or never actually play a game of 40k or AoS. So clearly, it’s in the company’s best interest to design a product that caters to the builder, customizer and painter... not the person who’s trying to get 2000 points on the table in a week.
All this video proves is that you can’t make everyone happy and everyone will find something to complain about.
One guy in our group quited the hobby after one and a half decades because tyranids (his main army) got a range update in 10th edition... You cannot make all people happy.
I mean, you're not wrong about the "average" 40K customer. The customer is now someone who buys a lot of new models, poorly assembles them, doesn't paint them, but spends 92% of their time complaining or arguing about a game they don't play. You see the same customer in D&D. They're a customer of the idea...not the actual game. Which is good, as neither of the games is particularly good! :D
@@uwesca6263one and a half decades is such an unnecessarily poetic way to say 15 years that it really fits in well with the ridiculous context
Think about this how much warhammer do you think a carefull moddeler buys and how much warhammer a 2000 points in a week for a tournament guy buys. Guy like that (aka me) are likely the whales of the miniture industry
Personally I hated the push fit of my command edition starter set and when I got my first full Intercessors kit I was was happier with how everything came together. The building is actually my favorite part, so I'm biased and enjoy all the smaller pieces. It's like graduating from regular LEGO to Technic for me. As for the detail, I really appreciate the effort and details going into the sculpts. I'm reminded of a great quote: "I don't know the key to success, but I know the key to failure is to try and please everyone."
About over-detailing - a possible explanation to its increase on GW models is that they aren't necessarily aimed at professional level painters exclusively. The higher the level of detail is, the more work things like contrast paints and washes do on the model - something that's not really a net benefit when you're already doing all your texturing and rendering "by hand" while painting, but that allows simpler and faster painting methods to look better than they would on more plain and smooth surfaces.
Ya I have a similar issue~ I’m new to this painting miniature. I am so frustrated that the result felt better with contrast paint + washes… than put in hours to base coat and trying to fix all the mistake during some of the highlight and painting those tiny stuff on them.
Posted something similar and then saw this. This is 100% true. It doesn't have to be detail per se - it's more about the texture than about detail per se, and GW is sometimes guilty of loading up the details when really they would be better off just focusing on lines and texture instead - but sharp lines and a general lack of open empty space on models is a great boon to those of us who are intermediate level painters. The easiest way to make models look good on the table even if you aren't a professional painter is to have good contrast, and sharply delineated surfaces and good texture make that far easier to achieve.
The big open smooth surface is one of the hardest things to do well in miniature painting, and I'm not sad that GW doesn't cater more to the professional painters who see that as a plus rather than a minus. There's plenty of other miniatures designed for display painting for people who want a freer canvas to express their skill on.
@@assistantref5084 I would say, this is both a blessing and a curse.
On the one hand, it does genuinely make fast painting methods (contrast paints, speedpaint, etc) return much better results than they would on a blander model;
On the other hand, for people trying to improve their painting, especially when they are already intermediate painters who want to try more complex stuff, but are not yet comfortable enough with the brush to tackle very small details, this can possibly make painting more difficult.
Personally, I still like the amount of detail that GW puts on their models these days, but I acknowledge they can be a problem for numerous reasons and for people at many painting skill levels.
@@AlikUncle Personally, if I only ever had smooth surfaces to work on, I never would have got to even the decent journeyman level I'm currently at. The big revelation for me was figuring out contrast (the concept, not the paints, which I have never used), and I wouldn't have done that with big smooth surfaces - I would have just gotten frustrated with my inability to produce convincing contrast using blending and shading the way the pros do, and then written off good-looking miniatures as something only the truly talented and/or trained could do, akin to flat canvas painting.
FWIW weirdly I don't think GW miniatures actually look all that great painted the way GW painters paint miniatures. GW puts way too much priority on clean brushwork and edge highlighting and way too little on contrast and volumetric shading, and it doesn't actually showcase the strengths of the miniatures.
I see that point and I hope they don't do that. They should design their paints for their models. Not the other way round hahaha
I painted a full napoleonic regiment during lockdown (something over 1,000 minis) and after taking a break, I recently got back into it after visiting the Games Workshop cafe in Tokyo in January. I hadn't really followed any GW stuff or news in the past 15 or so years (at least from the hobby side of things) so I picked up the Exaction Squad Kill team thinking it would be a nice little intro back into sci fi side of wargaming (plus they remind me a lot of Judge Dredd lol) but I was amazed/shocked at how many parts and sprues I got in the box. I think assembling the squad of 10 and the cybermastiff, I'm still left with 60% unused bits and pieces from the various customisation options. Even the instructions and the sprue numbering for the parts was a lot more confusing than I seem to remember. 😅
i also feel that the way gw have designed their newer models have been designed specifically to limit if not bar compatiblity with third party pieces. the old simple cadian models were clearly defined separate sections like torsos were one part, legs were one to two parts and it was easy to swap in alternative parts even from within their own range to spice things up but now with the new cadians it's an utter pain in the ass to do it
In my opinion the Direction they have taken forgets one major thing , these figures are toys used to play a game. And all these fancy doodads they are slapping on everything just make them more delicate. It's also making them more and more scarce on my painting table .
You see this a LOT with modern Kits, Orks being the most obvious since they still sell the old multipart kits and the new monopose kit so Ork players are left with a choice...do you get the much better looking but fixed loadout updated boyz, meaning if you want a squad of all shootas or all sluggas and choppas you need to do some very awkward kitbashing OR do you get the much derpier looking, smaller multipart boyz kit?
Was hoping one of the big reveals for Orks in 10th would have been a new multipart kit...but GW seem to be moving away from multipart kits for the reason you gave...so people can't use 3rd party parts very easily anymore.
@@CharlesEntrekin- see thats where yer wrong. Citadel is a MODEL company that just happens to have a game, not a game company with good models. Theyve never been a game company, the models are an excuse to sell you a game.
I honestly feel like that is the case, as well as making it harder to recast.
@DismemberTheAlamo you are correct. The hobby is modeling, painting, and playing. The whole game existd to sell these models. What cracks me up most is people will cry about the part count or the fiddly bits while also bemoaning the price point. These models are expensive because they're generally a high detail and quality than anything else on the market. This video just makes me think this guy is a shit modeler and painter who overloaded himself with work and then cry posted about parts because he needs content
The Briggs/Chase Law of program development (this applies to A LOT more than programming):
To determine how long it will take to write and debug a program, take your best estimate, multiply that by two, add one, and convert to the next higher unit of measure.
For example, if you estimate (truly think) it will take you 6 weeks, then:
6 weeks * 2 = 12 weeks.
add 1 = 13 weeks.
then convert to the next highest unit of measure: 13 months.
It will probably take 13 months.
This, in my 40 years of software development and project management, has turned out to be incredibly accurate.
Just sayin'
:)
"Failure" is where learning happens!
good video, thank you.
Okay, as a firmware engineer with but 20 years of experience, I thought I had it sorted, but you've taken this to a whole new level of mathematical precision. Thank you for this comment.
Ive been building a witch hunter Mordheim warband using frostgrave kits and gw models. The frostgrave kits have been way more fun to hobby and be creative❤
As someone who just wants to "play the darn game", with age has come a new mantra when assembling and especially painting: "It's not just good... **wink, nod, finger gun** It's good enough."
fair point hahah table top ready as they say
Shout out to Troy, Sonic Sledgehammer, his righteous crusade to bring Marine Juice to the masses might be the single most helpful thing to get your minis on the table with minimal fuss.
The over-detailed models are a way to sell shades and contrasts, which GW painting instructions rely on, no?
Love to see the juice in use! :D
We had this conversation at my FLGS, GW does have the prettiest models out there that isn't coming from a bespoke shop and artist. But we don't need every grunt model to be ready, off the sprue, to go compete in the Golden Demon. We don't need minis we are afraid to touch fo fear of breaking them, we need minis we can play with, scoop up by the handful to charge the enemy position, and ones that won't shatter when we accidentally knock them over. Army commander, big bad whatever on your team, sure, those you can make as fancy as possible. Everything else make it easy to tell what it is from across the table, but let's go back to as simple as possible. Is that too much to ask?
Also in the gaming space, saw a discussion on a board games forum, and board games have gotten so wildly complicated, when a creator asked the group what they wanted to see over the next year or so, the answer was a cry for simpler. Make simpler games that don't take up cubic yards of shelf space and an entire weekend to play. We have plenty of those games, we want a small taste of something different that we don't feel bad for taking that taste because it didn't take a lot of time to do it.
Overly detailed GW minis is something I was complaining about 15 years ago.
Between that and the prices I’ve long since stopped buying GW minis and use alternate manufacturers now.
Modern GW models mostly killed my joy of BUILDING models. I am more of a builder and converter, and have fond memories of clipping a whole regiment of 20 Orcs from their sprues - torso, legs, two arms and a head per model - and build them: picking my parts of choice, mixing things as I go along, and ending up with a bunch of "my dud... Orcs" at the end. This is completely impossible today.
Not only is each model an unreasonable amount of parts, you also HAVE to follow the instruction. You need half a degree in aerospace engineering or years of experience in following IKEA instructions, and it JUST IS NOT FUN AT ALL.
Not cool GW, not cool at all.
I feel the exact same way about many GW models - SO many parts that dont need to be separate!! it's so frustrating because it's always some tiny thing, even if it's a midsized model. I'm convinced they just want to fill out the sprue frame so that it's packed, so that it feels like you're "getting more".
This is not true. If you want plastic models looking the best they can, they need to be in a lot of parts.
@@martinjrgensen8234agreed, certain details need to be seperate or the molding process wouldn't work
@@BattlebrotherPhil up to a certain point.. one of the models i got has like a grill with a lot of spikes sticking out. in between 2 of the spikes was an empty hole with the instructions to cut out a spike and glue it into the hole. That's not complexity that's just stupid.
Lol, me putting my first House Escher models together. "Why do you have to glue their hair to their heads!?"
Lol, like the necks for delaque
Or the Van Saar in general!
The Van Saar were...ridiculous. My nephew chose them, and I had to build them for him, as they were absolutely impossible for him.
@@oskar6661What made them ridiculous? I was thinking of choosing them as my gang.
@@SmashingSnow They're a minimum of 12 pieces each, plus the base, and need building in stages with time for glue to cure in my opinion. Makes them easier to convert than Goliaths, Orlocks or Corpse Grinders but putting a starting gang together became a chore and I usually enjoy building over painting.