The second timing tab was added so that an earlier ( or possibly later) water pump housing could be used. Early has the bottom hose on driver side, later on passenger side. Damper should have an added TDC mark to correspond
Nice work Joe. My last 498 went 10 years on the street with a solid roller, roller cam button and stamped steel cover. The 588 will run the same set up. You will be fine. As always thanks for sharing your knowledge. Kevin
Always interesting and good learning experience for some. I watch for the entertainment and enjoyment, plus I can always learn something new daily. So I can always enjoy with my family and passing it on is always fun with the comments. Great evening JMJ! 💯
So essentially you are relying on the assumption that the deflection of the cover is consistent when you pry against it. As simplistic as it is, I actually think this is a safe assumption. I’m assembling a 400 based 470” roller cam motor soon. I think I’ll use this method and see if I can come to a level of comfort with my measurements. Thanks Joe! Subscribed.
Love these videos Joe, it's been a lot of years since I built and engine so it's awesome that we are both building 400s at the same time. Thanks for the refresher.
@@JustMoparJoe my buddy Rick Ehrenberg has a 400 /71 Roadrunner, he used the 440 crank and I can tell ya that thing goes like hell. No track times , it’s just used on the street. Sometimes he uses its photo in “Mopar Action “ magazine. The 400 is an overlooked engine.
Cam buttons are always a great idea on any engine that doesn't have a solid physical retention. Plus not to mention, the way the pump/dist. drive gears are set up, the torque applied to those gears will usually push the camshaft backwards into the block. But of course, that second method of retention is not always a 100% guarantee.
I just setup the cam button on my 400. I am with Eric. The dist drive gear should force the cam back which is why there in no cam retention plate on the BB but one on the Mopar SB. I ended up using an AR Engineering cam button, I did use a different method to measure the gap. But yours would have be a lot quicker and easier. LOL
looks good as long as you shim between the cover and water pump or reinforce the cover.otherwise.....the cover will flex and your cam will walk more than .010 .
Well you learn something new every day. I've never setup a cam on a big block so I didn't know this was a thing. Oh and FYI, I am 99% sure that The Bandit approves of your T-shirt. Appreciate it!
Hey Joe, what worked well for my roller cam setup was.. stock steel cover (like yours), but the trick was finding a 1/8" thick "rare earth" magnet that took up the slack between the stamped cover and the water pump. Eliminating the possibility for the cover to flex. I setup for .007" endplay. I also used a timing set with a Torrington bearing behind the cam gear. Working well so far. 👍
Thanks for taking the time to go thru your procedure. Like most 73 year olds, I thought I knew it all. I can tell you when a person quits learning (at least with cars), they quit going faster. Given the choice would you build a 400 based stroker or a 440 based stroker?
@@JustMoparJoe Thats what I was thinking. One other question. I have an Altered that I wanted to bracket race. It was last ran with a 500 Mopar. Out of sll the engines I could use, what would you suggest? Also of note it was once ran as an Econoaltered with a modern Hemi (modified of course).
I was told that the drag from the oil pump drive shaft always pushed the cam to the rear of the engine. So I guess under hard braking the cam could walk forward a little bit so once you get the end play set I doubt the cover flexing is a big deal. And since big block Chrysler's did not have any way to control forward motion from the factory I guess the chain itself was the only thing that held it from going forward?
I like your plan.....Don't know what ARP is thinking & using for Prototype & Design, but sometimes Not the OEM parts.....I prefer the original Bolts.....Oh well.....Easier to take some off than make it Longer !!......Thx for showing ......
Great video Joe. I have a question tho. With the indicator on the front of the timing cover when you check the endplay, to me thats just checking deflection of the cover itself and not the endplay of the cam. Machinist sitting here scratchong my head. Can someone help me out here?
Thanks Alix. Here’s my best explanation. I checked the cam movement when the cam and button were shoved all the way into the block, towards the rear. It would pry forward and stay .009-.010. After filing the button, I tested again. I did each test with .100 preload on my gauge. I pushed the cam to the rear, zeroed gauge, then pried forward. I got .006, then .005. In my mind, that means the lost .004 was from a space between the the button, and the cover. I realize it’s not the ideal way of testing, but I didn’t want to pop the rear plug out.
On an earlier video. I just was able to score one of those radiators on Ebay for my Demon. I even got a $10 discount offer from them. So it was $159 minus $10. Will let you know how it fits !! Thanks for the info ! Nice shirt ! 👍
Awsome video!!! One step closer my friend. Where did you get that MOPAR wall art with the American flag? I really like it. I can't wait to see the dyno numbers on this motor. Probably gonna be very close to how I have mine rebuilt. Mine will be for just cruise'n around and sunday drives. Keep the videos come'n...💯😎
More thought into this….. I think I’d be even more comfortable if after finding “zero” with the cover, you also measured the button assembly itself before and after filing / adjusting it. Then find the same dimension and correlation with this timing cover method.
Yes sir. I felt good after double checking it at the end. My original idea was to use the crushed gasket as the .005-.010. But I figured with the .003-.004 and rtv on both sides, it’d be in the ball park. The nylon buttons are more forgiving they say. The roller style are probably more precise, but if they don’t get proper clearance, they could eat the bearing.
I have a trick I use with 2 sockets and my press. I take the cover and mark the button with grease like you did but use one socket just bigger than the button then another that socket fits into. Put in my press and make it push about the thickness of the cover and your done. Easy mod.
@JustMoparJoe 48yrs of building and racing mopars ya learn a few trick lol. Just because my channel shows boat restoration don't mean that's all I do. If it's got a motor in it or on it I am all over it lol
@@JustMoparJoe mancni racing i think it is sells a special coated steel gear made for use w/roller cams and said to be better than bronze because bronze supposedly wears rather quickly . presumably bronze particles then end up in the oil.
There are more ways than one to skin a cat and I think your way will work just fine I have seen and done it a lot of different ways adjustable with torrington bearings but it ain't rocket science your way is easy and effective and the way I have done it for the last 30 years so yes now I have been waiting on your 512 stroker build sheet want to put it in my 69 valiant the 440 in the valiant is going in my 85 ram 250 two wheel drive my budget is only allowing me to run 440 sorce heads but with some porting I think it will still run good for a 4 speed street car always thanks for sharing your videos
Put 2 PC of masking tape on the cover 1 pc is .003 -.005 thick so 2 is around. 010 , then do it grind button until it doesn't touch the cover or move the indicator pull tape and you have .010 clearance..
@@ninjapumkin that’s the majority of what I run. No button needed because the cam is ground to spin the lifters. All that friction helps keep the cam in place.
I know it'd ruin an original Mopar timing cover, but could you weld a piece of channel iron across the front to stiffen it up? Or along with that, weld in a threaded bung so you could fine-tune the runout? Not sure any of that would clear the water pump, though.
To bad you don't have a bigger big block .You could drop it in the Baracuda ! 😂 Just messing with you Joe. This is Rich MWDD . I'm up my buddies on his phone . 😆 No Wi-Fi
@@JustMoparJoe He was selling a Aspin and 68 Dart GTS 6500 both . Keeping 8 3/4 I pulled it . He called me the guy didn't show . I came up put it back in . He called that night . I pulled it back out yesterday . It was Mopar stuff. ! 🤣
Good video JOe. This is Bob again I have a 1070 barracuda with the 512 kit from 440 source, I am just starting to put it together. Its actually a 505, 4.350 bore with 4.250 stroke. mine is a 440 (1970)and yours us a 400. What is the specs of your 508?
Thanks Bob. I actually have a full playlist for the 508 build. It has some interesting finds and nuances of the stroker kit that should help with your build. This one is .040 over pistons to make the 508.
These are the down falls of rollers in the b/rb series. 1 bronze drive wear 2 no standard method of setting end play 3 heavy under performing hydraulic rollers. 4 cost 5 Valve train wear from high spring pressure Roller cams are great, but with the performance potential of the .904 diameter mopar flat tappet most guys can have huge performance without the hassle of the roller. As long as correct break in is followed, and high zddp non detergent oil is used, large light high revving flat mechanical tappets can beat a lower revving hydraulic roller. Remember block passage mods must be done to the b/rb series in order to exceed 6500 rpm. Remember how these things still set records before we used rollers??
Got to admit I have never taken the cam walk into consideration especially on a B/RB engine.or the flex on the timing cover. Probably bc I figured only the pro's worry about stuff like that.
I think i would use a cast aluminum cover. You forced it forward farther in your first tests, then in the final test you just brought it to contact. You have to stay consistent with your method.
Another Great video Joe , I can't get myself to spend the money on a roller cam set up . The 493 I have my friend Dan building me is getting a Racer Brown STX22 solid flat tappet ( Racer Brown grinds cams for Chrysler products not just Chevy patterns on Chrysler cores like most cam companies ) I would have to be building a pretty big engine before I would look at a roller , the only benefit I see to a roller is not having to break it in but that is just me 😎
Thanks brother. The solid flat tappet cams are hard to beat for an old Mopar, especially in price point. The roller allows it to rev faster, less internal friction, and allows for more lift to be achieved in the lobe. I got an awesome deal on this NOS cam, springs, and found the lifters on sale. We will see how she goes!
The thickness of a button on a 3 bolt seems to be out 25 or so thousands vs the thickness of the head of a stock single bolt. If you have that much walk not controlled by your timing chain/gears then you have bigger problems. To be fair, I have never had a 3 bolt cam to need a button but I expect that you dont even need it? I will stipulate that Im not experienced with solid roller big block stuff, hence my inquiry here.
Roller cams don’t have the lobes ground to spin the lifters. That grind makes the cam pull rearward while it runs. The roller cam just spins and has a tendency to walk back and forth. The gear keeps it from going backwards, and the button helps limit forward travel.
@@JustMoparJoe And yet again one more lesson taught today! Thanks! Its not something as simple as taking a set of hydraulic lifters and dropping them on top of a flat tappet cam. Solid roller stuff is way above my paygrade, hell rollers at all for that matter. It makes a lot of sense. Rather than grinding the button, would it be the same if you just gave the cam cover a pop with the round head of a ball peen hammer?
Big block mopar the oil pump drive pulls the cam rearward, , small block mopar the drive pulls the cam forward, thats why small blocks have a cam plate and big blocks dont ,nothing to do with the lobe taper or lifters spinning
@@brettjohnson8009 I agree with your points. Here’s more information from a more reputable source on why it’s needed. www.motortrend.com/how-to/cam-thrust-explained-killing-engine/amp/
@@brettjohnson8009 Since the drive gear is a drop in it pushes more downward than anything and the only thing that actually keeps that in place is the dizzy. I had a cam eat itself because of too much slop in the bushings under the gear and in the distributor. Cam walked enough that it double lifted number 2 lobes. The gear helps locate the cam 'centerline' (for lack of better term) but it doesnt do as much as you'd think it would.
Thanks Matt. I have researched online and asked several engine builders. They said the nylon button is safe to use with any cover. When I upgrade this engine to stroker bottom end, I’ll go a different cover and button.
I can't wait to hear this engine run and I'd like to see you build a early model 360 j engine full race high compression and the works I'd even supply the pistons and ring's if you show the build of it
I have heard it both ways and both have worked and both have failed. Both have lasted, some need more often servicing . Some lasted 20.years, some less than 2 seasons. As JMJ said so many variables to doing a all reconditioned by a reputable place like JMJ's man (Jim's), doing and checking, blueprint specs on the reconditioning parts, or even spending top dollar on the parts. With the quality control of today and the lies by deception on packaging laws in the US of A. Anyone who decided to hide behind import laws and cheap parts, then send it here to be packed with made in the "USA" on the box, gimmicky and the poor people who buy it for the top price end up with junk especially can be said that they thought they had the best made in America parts to find out that by a flip of a quarter that it might last or or not make it through the break in period are the real victims of the new scam allowed by our nation and across-the-board everywhere to fill pockets with cash should not be allowed but unfortunately I don't know to fix it yet.
You don’t see a ton of movement due to timing chain, distributor/oil pump drive pressure tends to compensate it Obviously there is movement it is something you should at least look at when building a performance eng more so on race engines
@@JustMoparJoe you definitely want to limit that movement. I’ve never looked at how much room is giving before lifters make contact with opposing cam lobe. I don’t run a button on my engine now, not really sure if I will on the new combo as yet I probably will . I’m struggling with the heads and getting proper clearance on pushrods Been doing that little at a time because I’m way out of my comfort zone grinding in that tube area
They wouldn’t been big issue had I used a 440 block, but 400 block makes the angle of the pushrods much more pronounced , I’ve been grinding little by little to get clearance keep from rubbing the head inside the tube areas on intake runner
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The second timing tab was added so that an earlier ( or possibly later) water pump housing could be used. Early has the bottom hose on driver side, later on passenger side. Damper should have an added TDC mark to correspond
Nice catch! Thanks UTG
Put the distributor in it and a Mopar big block cam won't walk
Nice work Joe. My last 498 went 10 years on the street with a solid roller, roller cam button and stamped steel cover. The 588 will run the same set up. You will be fine.
As always thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Kevin
Thanks buddy! That’s good to hear! Did you have to brace the cover to the water pump, or with anything in the cover?
Something as small as this can make a big difference. Great video.
Thanks brother! Dyno is scheduled. Weather permitting
Nice video! You are well on your way to having a scream'n 400 !!!
Thanks Tim! My first 400 should be a fun one. Always 383’s and 440’s. This could be the little 400 that could!
Nice work, good video Joe.
This is such a important process.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks for the insight! Getting closer to making noise.
Does anyone have the link to the Ed's Machine video on the same subject?
@@wearegame777 Ed's Machine, RUclips.
Not sure if I covered this.
Have a great day.
I learned something new . I’m gonna make a mechanic eventually just by watching your videos .
Thanks Terry! I’ll let you know when I make one 😅
Always interesting and good learning experience for some. I watch for the entertainment and enjoyment, plus I can always learn something new daily. So I can always enjoy with my family and passing it on is always fun with the comments. Great evening JMJ! 💯
Thanks John.
Loving all the engine builds you do Joe ! Keep up the great work
Thanks Rob! I have been getting different opinions on it all. My last roller engine was ran just like this for years.
Another primo video Joe on something that most of us don't think about.😊
Had to button her up!
That's great info! Thanks for sharing!
It may not be the optimal way, but it works! Thanks Cley
It looks like a very nice build . I've been playing with BB mopars since 1980 .
Thank you, Howard. I believe my dad was your same vintage. He taught me how to build most things.
So essentially you are relying on the assumption that the deflection of the cover is consistent when you pry against it. As simplistic as it is, I actually think this is a safe assumption. I’m assembling a 400 based 470” roller cam motor soon. I think I’ll use this method and see if I can come to a level of comfort with my measurements. Thanks Joe! Subscribed.
Thanks brother
Love these videos Joe, it's been a lot of years since I built and engine so it's awesome that we are both building 400s at the same time. Thanks for the refresher.
Thanks brother! Good luck on your build!
Great to see the progress!👍
Thanks Mitch! Built at home and tested on the blacktop!
Good going Joe , chase the details to the finish line!👍✋🏻
Thanks Brother. Ready to hear it run
@@JustMoparJoe my buddy Rick Ehrenberg has a 400 /71 Roadrunner, he used the 440 crank and I can tell ya that thing goes like hell. No track times , it’s just used on the street. Sometimes he uses its photo in “Mopar Action “ magazine. The 400 is an overlooked engine.
@@lautburns4829 someday this one will gain 100 cubic inches
Very nice Joe. I can't wait to see it running now. 😊
Thanks Shane! Maybe can have a Christmas fire up!
Cam buttons are always a great idea on any engine that doesn't have a solid physical retention.
Plus not to mention, the way the pump/dist. drive gears are set up, the torque applied to those gears will usually push the camshaft backwards into the block. But of course, that second method of retention is not always a 100% guarantee.
Thanks Eric. Going to put this one to the test!
I just setup the cam button on my 400. I am with Eric. The dist drive gear should force the cam back which is why there in no cam retention plate on the BB but one on the Mopar SB. I ended up using an AR Engineering cam button, I did use a different method to measure the gap. But yours would have be a lot quicker and easier. LOL
Very nice. Thanks for the procedure.
Thanks John!!
Looks like you got it going your way Sir!
Thanks Mike!
looks good as long as you shim between the cover and water pump or reinforce the cover.otherwise.....the cover will flex and your cam will walk more than .010 .
Well you learn something new every day. I've never setup a cam on a big block so I didn't know this was a thing. Oh and FYI, I am 99% sure that The Bandit approves of your T-shirt. Appreciate it!
Thanks Duddie. No regrets or tacos this episode 😫
Hey Joe, what worked well for my roller cam setup was.. stock steel cover (like yours), but the trick was finding a 1/8" thick "rare earth" magnet that took up the slack between the stamped cover and the water pump. Eliminating the possibility for the cover to flex. I setup
for .007" endplay. I also used a timing set with a Torrington bearing behind the cam gear. Working well so far. 👍
Thanks for sharing! Great Idea 👍🏼
Nice Mopar engine!
Thanks brother. Hope to do initial fire up before Christmas, and dyno after first of year.
Thanks for taking the time to go thru your procedure. Like most 73 year olds, I thought I knew it all. I can tell you when a person quits learning (at least with cars), they quit going faster. Given the choice would you build a 400 based stroker or a 440 based stroker?
Glad it was helpful. I think I prefer the 400. Starts with the bigger bore and easier to fit into an engine bay.
@@JustMoparJoe Thats what I was thinking. One other question. I have an Altered that I wanted to bracket race. It was last ran with a 500 Mopar. Out of sll the engines I could use, what would you suggest? Also of note it was once ran as an Econoaltered with a modern Hemi (modified of course).
I was told that the drag from the oil pump drive shaft always pushed the cam to the rear of the engine. So I guess under hard braking the cam could walk forward a little bit so once you get the end play set I doubt the cover flexing is a big deal. And since big block Chrysler's did not have any way to control forward motion from the factory I guess the chain itself was the only thing that held it from going forward?
I believe that’s correct. I imagine the length of chain between the sprockets would allow some decent stretching distance over time
Attention to detail!
Thanks brother. I’m excited to get her going
I like your plan.....Don't know what ARP is thinking & using for Prototype & Design, but sometimes Not the OEM parts.....I prefer the original Bolts.....Oh well.....Easier to take some off than make it Longer !!......Thx for showing ......
Thanks Tom!
Great video Joe. I have a question tho. With the indicator on the front of the timing cover when you check the endplay, to me thats just checking deflection of the cover itself and not the endplay of the cam. Machinist sitting here scratchong my head. Can someone help me out here?
Thanks Alix. Here’s my best explanation. I checked the cam movement when the cam and button were shoved all the way into the block, towards the rear. It would pry forward and stay .009-.010. After filing the button, I tested again. I did each test with .100 preload on my gauge. I pushed the cam to the rear, zeroed gauge, then pried forward. I got .006, then .005. In my mind, that means the lost .004 was from a space between the the button, and the cover. I realize it’s not the ideal way of testing, but I didn’t want to pop the rear plug out.
On an earlier video. I just was able to score one of those radiators on Ebay for my Demon. I even got a $10 discount offer from them. So it was $159 minus $10. Will let you know how it fits !! Thanks for the info ! Nice shirt ! 👍
Thanks Tim’s! Hope she works well for you.
Everybody take a drink every time he says "button"
There’s an idea!
Awsome video!!! One step closer my friend. Where did you get that MOPAR wall art with the American flag? I really like it. I can't wait to see the dyno numbers on this motor. Probably gonna be very close to how I have mine rebuilt. Mine will be for just cruise'n around and sunday drives. Keep the videos come'n...💯😎
Thanks James! My mother got me that for Christmas a few years back. Brother bought me The signed Burt Reynolds 😂
More thought into this….. I think I’d be even more comfortable if after finding “zero” with the cover, you also measured the button assembly itself before and after filing / adjusting it. Then find the same dimension and correlation with this timing cover method.
Yes sir. I felt good after double checking it at the end. My original idea was to use the crushed gasket as the .005-.010. But I figured with the .003-.004 and rtv on both sides, it’d be in the ball park. The nylon buttons are more forgiving they say. The roller style are probably more precise, but if they don’t get proper clearance, they could eat the bearing.
I have a trick I use with 2 sockets and my press. I take the cover and mark the button with grease like you did but use one socket just bigger than the button then another that socket fits into. Put in my press and make it push about the thickness of the cover and your done. Easy mod.
Excellent idea!
@JustMoparJoe 48yrs of building and racing mopars ya learn a few trick lol. Just because my channel shows boat restoration don't mean that's all I do. If it's got a motor in it or on it I am all over it lol
Is the gear in for the oil pump and dist that will change things.
Yes sir. Gear was dropped in for mock up. It was a stock gear. I will need a bronze for the roller cam.
@@JustMoparJoe mancni racing i think it is sells a special coated steel gear made for use w/roller cams and said to be better than bronze because bronze supposedly wears rather quickly . presumably bronze particles then end up in the oil.
@@danielslocum7169 thanks brother. I hear the bronze wears faster and isn’t best for street use. I’ll see what comp recommends for it.
There are more ways than one to skin a cat and I think your way will work just fine I have seen and done it a lot of different ways adjustable with torrington bearings but it ain't rocket science your way is easy and effective and the way I have done it for the last 30 years so yes now I have been waiting on your 512 stroker build sheet want to put it in my 69 valiant the 440 in the valiant is going in my 85 ram 250 two wheel drive my budget is only allowing me to run 440 sorce heads but with some porting I think it will still run good for a 4 speed street car always thanks for sharing your videos
Thanks Ray! I’ve got that video in the works. It’s a quicker video than my others because of the rush to get it in the car.
Put 2 PC of masking tape on the cover 1 pc is .003 -.005 thick so 2 is around. 010 , then do it grind button until it doesn't touch the cover or move the indicator pull tape and you have .010 clearance..
Nice idea. Thanks for sharing!
Joe what about clearance on a solid roller single bolt? I didn’t use a cam button or check clearance or how much cam walks
I’ve never seen a single bolt, solid roller cam for a big block Mopar. Maybe someone else can chime in on it.
@@JustMoparJoe sorry not a roller. Just solid lifter
@@ninjapumkin that’s the majority of what I run. No button needed because the cam is ground to spin the lifters. All that friction helps keep the cam in place.
Hey Joe just grind down the bolts some.😂
Little bit 😂
I know it'd ruin an original Mopar timing cover, but could you weld a piece of channel iron across the front to stiffen it up? Or along with that, weld in a threaded bung so you could fine-tune the runout? Not sure any of that would clear the water pump, though.
Good ideas Eric. Many guys weld a plate. I will fly it and watch it.
To bad you don't have a bigger big block .You could drop it in the Baracuda ! 😂 Just messing with you Joe. This is Rich MWDD . I'm up my buddies on his phone . 😆 No Wi-Fi
Thanks Dick! Y’all get some some Mopar work done.
@@JustMoparJoe He was selling a Aspin and 68 Dart GTS 6500 both . Keeping 8 3/4 I pulled it . He called me the guy didn't show . I came up put it back in . He called that night . I pulled it back out yesterday . It was Mopar stuff. ! 🤣
Good video JOe. This is Bob again I have a 1070 barracuda with the 512 kit from 440 source, I am just starting to put it together. Its actually a 505, 4.350 bore with 4.250 stroke. mine is a 440 (1970)and yours us a 400. What is the specs of your 508?
Thanks Bob. I actually have a full playlist for the 508 build. It has some interesting finds and nuances of the stroker kit that should help with your build. This one is .040 over pistons to make the 508.
These are the down falls of rollers in the b/rb series.
1 bronze drive wear
2 no standard method of setting end play
3 heavy under performing hydraulic rollers.
4 cost
5 Valve train wear from high spring pressure
Roller cams are great, but with the performance potential of the .904 diameter mopar flat tappet most guys can have huge performance without the hassle of the roller.
As long as correct break in is followed, and high zddp non detergent oil is used, large light high revving flat mechanical tappets can beat a lower revving hydraulic roller.
Remember block passage mods must be done to the b/rb series in order to exceed 6500 rpm.
Remember how these things still set records before we used rollers??
I’m not saying it’s the only way. My dad raised me on Isky solid flat tappet cams in our race cars.
Got to admit I have never taken the cam walk into consideration especially on a B/RB engine.or the flex on the timing cover. Probably bc I figured only the pro's worry about stuff like that.
Thanks brother! I’m no pro, but hope to be one someday. I can build a sanitary engine at home.
I think i would use a cast aluminum cover.
You forced it forward farther in your first tests, then in the final test you just brought it to contact.
You have to stay consistent with your method.
It’s consistent in the final product, whether filmed or not. I realize the perception of it.
@@JustMoparJoe
Cool
Another Great video Joe , I can't get myself to spend the money on a roller cam set up . The 493 I have my friend Dan building me is getting a Racer Brown STX22 solid flat tappet ( Racer Brown grinds cams for Chrysler products not just Chevy patterns on Chrysler cores like most cam companies ) I would have to be building a pretty big engine before I would look at a roller , the only benefit I see to a roller is not having to break it in but that is just me 😎
Thanks brother. The solid flat tappet cams are hard to beat for an old Mopar, especially in price point. The roller allows it to rev faster, less internal friction, and allows for more lift to be achieved in the lobe. I got an awesome deal on this NOS cam, springs, and found the lifters on sale. We will see how she goes!
Where can a person dyno a Mopar in Arkansas?
I talked to Kuntz and Co. in Arkadelpia. They dynoed Yieldings hemi that made 1,100 hp N/a.
The thickness of a button on a 3 bolt seems to be out 25 or so thousands vs the thickness of the head of a stock single bolt. If you have that much walk not controlled by your timing chain/gears then you have bigger problems. To be fair, I have never had a 3 bolt cam to need a button but I expect that you dont even need it? I will stipulate that Im not experienced with solid roller big block stuff, hence my inquiry here.
Roller cams don’t have the lobes ground to spin the lifters. That grind makes the cam pull rearward while it runs. The roller cam just spins and has a tendency to walk back and forth. The gear keeps it from going backwards, and the button helps limit forward travel.
@@JustMoparJoe And yet again one more lesson taught today! Thanks! Its not something as simple as taking a set of hydraulic lifters and dropping them on top of a flat tappet cam. Solid roller stuff is way above my paygrade, hell rollers at all for that matter. It makes a lot of sense. Rather than grinding the button, would it be the same if you just gave the cam cover a pop with the round head of a ball peen hammer?
Big block mopar the oil pump drive pulls the cam rearward, , small block mopar the drive pulls the cam forward, thats why small blocks have a cam plate and big blocks dont ,nothing to do with the lobe taper or lifters spinning
@@brettjohnson8009 I agree with your points. Here’s more information from a more reputable source on why it’s needed. www.motortrend.com/how-to/cam-thrust-explained-killing-engine/amp/
@@brettjohnson8009 Since the drive gear is a drop in it pushes more downward than anything and the only thing that actually keeps that in place is the dizzy. I had a cam eat itself because of too much slop in the bushings under the gear and in the distributor. Cam walked enough that it double lifted number 2 lobes. The gear helps locate the cam 'centerline' (for lack of better term) but it doesnt do as much as you'd think it would.
whoops i never installed button drove that way for 10 years , whoops no problems
Man! Thats interesting. It’ll be interesting to see that chain cover when you pull the engine down
Indexed I believe
Thanks John
@@JustMoparJoe always welcome my friend and I hope that you have a great morning.
When using a steel cover an aluminum cam button should be used, or a steel bushing with a bearing end
Thanks Matt. I have researched online and asked several engine builders. They said the nylon button is safe to use with any cover. When I upgrade this engine to stroker bottom end, I’ll go a different cover and button.
I can't wait to hear this engine run and I'd like to see you build a early model 360 j engine full race high compression and the works I'd even supply the pistons and ring's if you show the build of it
Man that would be a fun one. How about a high compression 408? I have the pistons to swap into my engine, but would need rebalance.
I actually have a 360 build coming up for a ramcharger. It’ll be different than my previous build. He wants some street ability and some good torque.
I have heard it both ways and both have worked and both have failed. Both have lasted, some need more often servicing . Some lasted 20.years, some less than 2 seasons. As JMJ said so many variables to doing a all reconditioned by a reputable place like JMJ's man (Jim's), doing and checking, blueprint specs on the reconditioning parts, or even spending top dollar on the parts. With the quality control of today and the lies by deception on packaging laws in the US of A. Anyone who decided to hide behind import laws and cheap parts, then send it here to be packed with made in the "USA" on the box, gimmicky and the poor people who buy it for the top price end up with junk especially can be said that they thought they had the best made in America parts to find out that by a flip of a quarter that it might last or or not make it through the break in period are the real victims of the new scam allowed by our nation and across-the-board everywhere to fill pockets with cash should not be allowed but unfortunately I don't know to fix it yet.
We can count on us!
@@JustMoparJoe I can count on you and I wish I was closer to the place that you are than here.
You don’t see a ton of movement due to timing chain, distributor/oil pump drive pressure tends to compensate it
Obviously there is movement it is something you should at least look at when building a performance eng more so on race engines
Hopefully I can limit that movement and make the milodon gear last longer
@@JustMoparJoe you definitely want to limit that movement.
I’ve never looked at how much room is giving before lifters make contact with opposing cam lobe.
I don’t run a button on my engine now, not really sure if I will on the new combo as yet
I probably will .
I’m struggling with the heads and getting proper clearance on pushrods
Been doing that little at a time because I’m way out of my comfort zone grinding in that tube area
@@dennisrichardson2577 what kind of heads are you using?
@@JustMoparJoe Speedmaster /pro comp
6.50 offset
They wouldn’t been big issue had I used a 440 block, but 400 block makes the angle of the pushrods much more pronounced ,
I’ve been grinding little by little to get clearance keep from rubbing the head inside the tube areas on intake runner
I would be smashed by the end of it., "Light weight" I am oh well.
Peace Burt
He’s hanging out
The cover is going to flex? Get a billet cover.
I’m not bothered by the flexing cover. The cuda in my thumbnail ran this cover with a bigger solid roller and never had an issue.
@@JustMoparJoe Gotcha...
@@jcnewbee8124 this is one of the few areas I’m not in fear to save a few dollars.