Rings of Power: Episodes 1&2 Analysis and Reaction | Rings & Realms
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- In this episode of Rings & Realms, Drs. Corey Olsen and Maggie Parke discuss episodes 1 and 2 of Prime Video’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. Join Corey and Maggie as they highlight some of the themes of the show, discuss Tolkien’s lore and its consideration in this adaptation.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
1:47 - Tolkien Points: Themes
• 1:54 - Light and Darkness
• 18:08 - Death and Mortality
• 23:26 - Healing
• 29:18 - Friendship
• 33:36 - Fate
37:50 - Making Middle-earth: Adaptation
58:16 - Of the Rings of Power and the Second Age: Analysis
• 58:17 - Ainulindalë
• 1:01:43 - The Kinslaying
• 1:06:49 - Finrod's Oath
• 1:13:23 - Galadriel's Choice
• 1:18:54 - Return to Valinor
• 1:29:26 - Changing of the World
1:35:29 - The Road Goes Ever On: Looking Ahead
__________
Rings & Realms is an independent production made with passion by a group of dedicated volunteer artists and scholars. Our goal is to share knowledge in an accessible way, and offer tools and food for thought for engagement with Prime Video’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.
Join us each week for a new episode here on RUclips.
You can also join us live for our longer, Q&A show Other Minds and Hands Thursdays at 4:30pm EST: • Other Minds and Hands:...
And our reaction show on Twitter Spaces Fridays at 12pm EST via Corey’s Twitter: @Tolkienprof
Hosts: Dr. Corey Olsen, aka The Tolkien Professor, is president of Signum University and is one of the academic experts on Tolkien and his lore. Dr Maggie Parke is a lecturer at Signum University and her expertise is in adaptation, production, and fan studies.
__________
- Links -
Rings and Realms - @ringsandrealms
Twitter: / ringsandrealms
Instagram: / ringsandrealms
Facebook: / ringsandrealms
Other Minds and Hands - • Other Minds and Hands:...
Studio Lab @StudioLabNH
Website - www.studiolab.community
RUclips - / studiolabnh
Signum University / Mythgard Institute @SignumUniversity
Website - signumuniversity.org
RUclips - / signumuniversity
Mythgard Institute - mythgard.org
Exploring the Lord of the Rings - mythgard.org/lotro/exlotr/
Silmarillion Film Project - mythgard.org/silmfilm/
- Credits -
Created, Hosted, and Written by Dr. Corey Olsen
Twitter: @TolkienProf
Website: tolkienprofessor.com
Podcast: tolkienprof.fireside.fm/subsc...
Produced, Hosted, and Written by Dr. Maggie Parke
Twitter: @MaggieParke
Website: maggieparke.com
Directed and Produced by: Benjamin Davis
Director of Photography: Greg Farnum - gregfarnum
Virtual Production Director: Ian Messina - ianmessina.eth
Opening Music: Jamie Evans - / jamieevansmusic1
Visual and Audio Assets Used Courtesy of Prime Video - amazon.com/theringsofpower
Special Thanks:
Elvish Illumination Artwork - at.mansbjorkman.net/teng_illum...
Måns Berg
Gildir, Per Lindberg
Love seeing someone actually focusing on the thematic work being done in the show and taking a deeper dive into the thing in itself rather than the meta stuff surrounding the show
So much unreasonable hate for this show is sad.
@@KateTsingtao yeah man I think that most people watch this show very superficially. They probably start with the idea that this show has nothing to do with Tolkien's world, so the moment they don't understand something they say it's bad writing and don't even try to find an answer. But for dialogues, I really hope they improve a little. In episode 2 I saw an improvement, let's see how the situation is in episode 3 in some hours :D
Or minor aesthetic choices.
@@unohhhjjdd6716 it’s the brown and black people casting is why.
@@KateTsingtao and also it's just that people want to hate this show. I've never seen a show being called awful because some dialogues felt a bit off and there was a dubious plot strategy. Imagine doing detailed research for months as a showrunner of this show, trying to pull out a decent new story out of the mess that is Tolkien's second age, all while trying to stay as faithful as possible to the original material without breaking rights. And then you have the whole story you created being ignored while the most talked thing about the show is elves' hair and black actors.
The elves in the water seemed like the sinking of the Beleriand, since it came right after the end of the war.
Thank you so much for this. So tired of watching videos that do nothing but tear down the show, and this is exactly what I was looking for: honest, intelligent, fair and engaging analysis.
Check out Nerd if the Rings and In Deep Geek if you haven’t already
Honest critique doesn't mean you are doing nothing but "tearing down the show".
In addition to other great analysts like Dr. Olsen and Nerd of the Rings, I also highly recommend the Rings of Power Wrap Up podcast (by creators of the prancing pony pod) - great stuff as always with them
@@tomoflathead when did the comment say “honest critique” and “tearing down the show” were the same thing? Quit trying to start some drama.
@@Osk94 Thanks, I will.
This and Casterly Talk are the two best Rings of Power “podcasts” out there. Actually sitting down and discussing the themes instead of focusing on surface level stuff and boring predictions
@@provisionalhypothesis because the show is only the surface level of storytelling.
I'm a sucker for Tolkien related media, I hope it gets better in time.
It is not horrible, but Tolkien is Top Shelf Fantasy.
If I want D&D fantasy we play.
@@MrEd1024 Well beggars can't be choosers, I'd rather live with the imperfections and faults of the show and enjoy what it gives us instead of focusing on the flaws.
Thanks for listening to us at Casterly, Robert. I (Ken here!) just got tipped off to Rings and Realms here and really love the knowledge, presentation, and vibe! Let the Themes light the way! Ha. Alright -- back to this watching this video!
In Deep Geek is also good.
Thanks for sharing- I’ll check them out.
A middle earth channel giving the show a chance and no just mindlessly taking shots at superficial stuff? You've scored a subscription, friend!
I love that Corey’s reaction to things being changed from the lore is “I’m curious why they made that choice!” and not “how dare they ruin Tolkien’s work and everything he stood for!”
Exactly. There's enough care in this show that when they make a change, or introduce something, I'm curious to know *why* - not mad that they did it!
People are so quick to judge and jump on a bandwagon these days it's really sad...
that's just how a open-minded person whose intent isn't on preying on their audience for views interacts with new interpretations and ideas, unfortunately on youtube, as most social media, it's mostly populated with the grifters, making something that should be so much more common feel like such a breath of fresh air in the online discourse of these big IPs
the show got better to me after I abandoned any hope of fidelity, its loosely based on tolkien at best.
@@aesir1ases64 if the writing was even grade school level, I'd not mind it, just for the visuals alone. I can let it pass about changing things, he'll, they don't have any rights worth talking about, so it makes sense they need changes.
But that doesn't excuse them from the horrible writing.
What I loved about Elronds line about healing by going to valinor is the foreshadowing of the fate of celebrian, his wife and daughter of galadriel
It was a Middle Earth’s Journey trying to explain to my friends how Galadriel and Elrond weren’t lovers, but that she is his Mother-In-Law. Not only that, but that they are first cousins, three times removed through two tribes of the Elves(Vanyar & Noldor) and second cousins, two times removed from the last tribe(Sindar/Teleri). They aren’t lovers, they were family before he was even born lol.
@@JonBoullion1020 She is about the only elvish kind Elrond still has beyond Gil-Galad (and very very remote kin of Thingol left like Cirdan & Co.).
but why would elrond taught her about valinor since she was there and he was not?
@@Chociewitka Cirdan is by far the most underrated Elf in all of Tolkien’s Lore. I truly believe he may have been one of the the First Elves that awoke under the stars. His foresight and unwavering loyalty to the Teleri/Sindar should have been given a further insight into how important he was to not only the Sindar that wished to cross the sea during the Third Age, but the fact he allowed the forgiven of the Noldor who had slaughtered his kindred in The Kinslaying to also use his ships to cross over deserves at least a little in-depth review on Tolkien’s part. But alas, will Cirdan The Shipwright ever leave Middle Earth? 🥺🫤
@aesir1ases64 he's not "teaching" her. He comes across as more trying to remind her, to me. Because she told him of Sauron, he knows she is still focused on finding him and the loss of her brother, and is trying to draw her back and say "go there, heal. Please. You need it."
The allusion to the kids and the kinslaying was powerful. I think it also informs the reader that even though valinor is the blessed realm…it still isn’t free from conflict or evil or corruption or discord. A key point…look to the multiple instances of death and destruction and deception that happen there for thousands of years before middle earth even enters the picture…by the valar, melkor, ungoliant, feanor and the elves etc
Middle-earth exists the same time as Aman.
This is so insanely professional I love it
thank you for doing this Professor! lovers and haters of the series will find this to be an invaluable resource to hopefully* ease tensions our community is currently going through. well spoken as always!
Who are you talking for, real fans can't stand this guy.
You misread it. That's ok. I spoke for none other than myself, id never speak for you or those you consider “real” fans. I don't speak troll, nor any if the tongues of Morgoth. May you find peace and wisdom in your grief, young soul.
REALLY enjoyed this in-depth analysis of the first two episodes. So well done, with lots of things answered, and a few new questions to think about. Thank you!
Watching this post-episode 6 and got chills at 1:11:30
“Perhaps your search for Morgoth’s successor should have ended in a mirror”
Fantastic analysis and insight. Tolkien fans are so fortunate to have such an opportunity for passionate engagement and role models for healthy discussion. Keep up the amazing work!
But they're so unlucky to have a huge chunk of the fanbase that thinks they're Tolkien experts and spreads misinformation :(
@@unohhhjjdd6716 Who cares, we don't need to let other people drag us down and ruin our experience just because they can't keep their minds open for more than two seconds.
@@Flash4ML yeah you're right man
@@unohhhjjdd6716 @Anthony Love I've been practicing lately and I think I could keep my mind open for a solid ten seconds if I really tried.
Wow. This podcast analyzing the show beyond all the talk surrounding the show and it's casting is great.
Ok bot 🤖
Wow this really blow over any other Fan channel. The theme and lore explanation, So much depth. So much was missed by other channel
That explanation about the paper ship, children and lore call back about the elf fight.
Mind blowing 🙀🙀🙀🙀
Dear Maggie and Corey, thank you so much for the beautiful work. Now that the first season is over, let's make more content for Tolkien Talk and let's reference Rings & Realms a lot! 😍🥰🤩🥰😍
Been waiting all week for this!
Its so nice to have this quality content between the episodes. Thank you, makes the wate time bit bearable. So pumped about RoP!!
So glad to see this up! I've been checking for it the past few days!
Excellent analysis! I wish more fans would try to engage in this kind of thought process. Looking forward to Rings of Power and Rings and Realms every week!
This is genius great pairing for the show to give the detail of these stories they are limited to tell.
Red haired cousins of Galadriel sinking swan ships is just Brilliant...thanks for spotting it....hope more opl can appreciate it...this show so much lore in theme in spite of limited rigjts
Great analysis. I am so glad you have this opportunity to share your insights.
Re-watching this on the one-year anniversary of ROP, and still enjoying it so much. I hope we will get more when season 2 finally arrives.
What a lovely breakdown. I had not even realized the introduction to episode 2 was an easter egg pertaining to the Ainulindalë. My bad viewing habits made me skip it. I will need to be more diligent in taking everything in.
Love this but hate to correct Maggie on one thing that I've noticed many other film fans also get wrong is that the Grey Havens is/are in Middle-earth not in Valinor. The elves (and Frodo, Bilbo et al in the ROTK film) sail from the Grey Havens to the Undying lands of Valinor.
It seemed more to me that Gil Galad was retiring them, more than giving them permission. He was releasing them from service
That would be how I currently read it as well.
I was so looking forward to this more than any other analysis, and I wasn't disappointed! Thank you!
With Galadriel isn’t part of the issue that she is one of the only surviving Noldor left from the First Age, who followed Feanor across to middle earth anyway?
Thus implying that hey you left Valinor voluntarily…while not participating in the kinslaying or the oath (Feanor’s)…she still went, when the others did not.
Thus there is a price to pay for redemption? Maybe I’m wrong but it’s the point of consequences apply for your actions. Thus there was more work for her to do…
Does Elendil or any of the Numenorians have the ring of Barahir? It would be interesting if she finds a Numenorian wearing her brother's ring, bringing more questions, maybe explaining Finrod's oath better.
Yes, it should be Elendil's or his father Amandil's if he's still alive during the show.
@@strocau I mean, if they would go with the Lore on this issue, he would be alive. Then again...they already changed so much that this wouldn't matter after all.
finally a video that isn’t negative. the toxic videos are exhausting. great job man
I have to heartily disagree with the left to right comment on the ship's movement. Valinor is in the West, and North is always at the top of a map, which therefore means the only natural direction for a westerly moving ship is right to left. It would have completely confused me had the ship been traveling left to right, i.e. into the East. This was the only correct way to film this visually.
I came here looking for someone to make this point.
Yeah, I think there's something to be said for camera angles and the nuances behind things like that, but I'm not convinced that we should be drawing any ideas or conclusions from stuff like that, not my favorite part of this video
@@Flash4ML Well, camera angles and other nuanced creative actions and choices can tell us a lot. These choices are not made haphazardly. Whether we interpret those choices in the way they were intended is what determines the success of those actions and choices.
It is absolutely true that in western visual story telling, left to right is the convention to indicate forward progress. However, in this case, I think the geographical shape of Middle-earth trumps convention.
Superb, in depth explanation .
This is a real treat
And I never read Tolkien books
I happen to fall into this rabbit hole
Need an extended version plz
Corey Olsen is an excellent companion for reading the books, whenever you want to and whichever book you start with.
THIS is the real analysis of Ring of Power. Every other youtuber “trying” to hate the series without understanding is just pathetic.
The sinking of Beleriand also comes to mind regarding the imagery of the red sea containing floating bodies and a city beneath the water. That image is so powerful! It punctuated the end of the War of Wrath and the First Age.
Fantastic analysis and reaction video. Thanks for doing these!
I will be eagerly following this every week after each new episode of the Rings of Power!👏👏👏
Me too
Wow! I just gotta say. The production for these videos are incredible! I've never seen anything like it. Good job guys!
This is incredibly educating, Thank you!
This was unbelievably fascinating and gives me a deeper appreciation to the show.
Thanks for your comments on the stone and stars, so many of my friends complained that it sounded like childish pseudo-philosophy, but i was explaining "NO! You don't understand! its Medieval Cosmology! The Paperclip wants to go home!"
XD Was that the Boethius class? Or was that Dante?
@@jj48 Both were good, but I'm PRETTY sure it was Boethius. Loved that class so much, i show episode 4 to my history students now.
are we totally sure that there was just one meteor? could it have been more than one and we only saw where one landed?
5, perhaps? 🤔☺️
That's a fascinating thought. Given the trajectory and the way it was blocked out, it seemed like it was only one, but maybe that's deliberate obfuscation.
This is by far the must productive and intriguing analysis and commentary on the Rings of Power that I have seen so much. Thank you for your whole team for creating something so deeply insightful and compelling with which to think on this new Middle Earth endeavor.
WOW! I've only watched 2 minutes and I must say I am very impressed by the level of production of this. I expected just the normal podcast format with some one sat in front of a mic. Love this already!
I'm as excited for each of these as I am for the episodes themselves
Really I would think you would be much more excited for these episodes because I don’t see how anyone can truly be excited for the episodes of rings of power? Do you not think ROP is super bad so far?
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 cool story bro
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 nope I think it's awesome
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 this video is literally explaining how the writers have laid the groundwork for it to be a great show!
@@travisspazz1624 lmao. Just because you make a solid foundation to build a house on top of doesn’t mean the house itself won’t be one of the worst houses anyone has made
Thought that struck me as you were talking about light and dark, and looking up and down. The dwarves were seeking light in Khazad-Dum - mithril - but they did so they by looking ever further down. Which, as we know, ends badly...
The production value on this is awesome. Thank you so much for putting this together! Totally worth the wait!
Thank you for putting these together, the time and effort is obvious and much appreciated.
Absolutely loved this. Great job to the whole team. Loved the idea that finrods oath has perhaps been mistold to galadriel. I think it would be so cool if a character like Elendil will set the record straight. Especially if he is wearing a certain ring galadriel will recognize
Fantastic! I never knew that in cinematography traveling from left to right traditionally shows progress. I assumed the ship going from right to left indicates it's traveling west as we would normally view a map. -- which may still also be the reason. Either way, this is the deep dive I was hoping for and I'm so glad a lot of thought appears to have gone into this production, both the series and this channel.
This is an example of a person whose brain hasnt been rotted by social media.
It's not fair for one man to have this much genius 😂
Obviously it's considerably more than that - thank you for all your hard work, both of you, along with the whole team. This is adding so much richness to the experience of this series.
Thank you for talking about the “round world” / “flat world” question. It was puzzling to me as well. It will be hard to discuss this without spoiling that certain event though…
When you speak of the Kinslaying and that striking image, could that not also be the sinking of Beleriand?
How does this only have 43k views? This is an amazing companion to the show!!! Which is great btw. I dont understand why it's generating so much hate. I love the show!
I'm noticing that the fire and stone when the stranger has fallen with Nori reminds me a lot of when Frodo is about to destroy the ring in LOTR.
StudioLab has done a terrific job with those titles.
Fantastic stuff. Enjoyed it very much. The reference to Silmarillion with the swanboat in start and children with red hair is so deep, and so beautiful. So much important information just in the opening sequence with the light/dark themes. Glad you pointed out the Finrod oath and how this is a choice that goes in a different direction than the original source. Hope you can follow up on these decisions that goes "againts the lore", and try to make sense of why they make changes. To use the "oath", they pay homage to Tolkien in the sense that it underscore the determitation and motivation behind Galadriel's choices. The way they change it could be seen as taking too much liberties, but I wonder if is pays off in terms of the character development in the long term. Too early to draw conclusions about where they are going with some of the characters. Huge shoutout to Maggie as well, brilliant job.
No, its awful. Its an example of bad easter egg. It undermines the lore and its bad to the story.
First, elves lived in bliss in Valinor before Melkor, Tolkien said Elven kids needed little to no governing from their parents (so they behaved well). I would assume that when Melkor was released Galadriel was already grown up, and even if it wasnt the case, if the show wanted to portray how the elves were already being manipulated by Melkor, they should have implied it better or shown it with older elves.
Second, they did the scene sooo bad, those kids looked like regular bullies out of any normal middle school, and the scene of Galadriel ready to punch the kid .... c'mon .... and lets be honest, all the elves in this show doesnt really look that elvish to me, more like normal people. I have a strong believe Tolkien would have burst out with angry if he saw the first 5 minutes of this show, it was that bad (the trees were cool though).
Third, ignoring the lore and just focusing on the series, its a bad look at the elves early on, it makes them feel too normal and honestly you end up lacking empathy towards them and their tragedy of going after Morgoth, specially for a casual that has no idea about Tolkien.
I like Corey but he can be really disingenous sometimes, he quotes Tolkien when it pleases his argument and ignores it when it contradicts his argument. I knew when I saw that scene Corey would try to defend it, I knew he would try to link it to the kinslaying, and even though its true, it undermines the lore and the story.
I've watched quite a few analysis/reaction videos but this is the deepest dive yet. Very enjoyable, informative and well done.
Man... I want to be this dudes friend. I love how he talks about the themes. He knows what he is Tolkien about amirite xD
I was waiting for this just as much as I am waiting for the next episodes, great show!
Wonderful episode! I really enjoy this format, talking about the visual motifs and themes!
Damn, wasn't expecting feature length!!
Thank you for this! He’s helping me, a 22 year old, develop my discernment and intuition. I needed guidance with that.
Listening to this dissection and review is so genuinely uplifting to me after hearing so many complaints. Like a breath of clean country air.
I’m about 20 min in and I’m loving it already. Something else I noticed that relates to the Light and Darkness theme is in the beginning of episode 2, before Galadriel begins swimming she looks up at the stars. Couldn’t help but think about Varda and the elvish reverence for starlight. Definitely a moment of seeking a source of “true” light and allowing it to guide you.
on the note of the statues of the elves in those trees. yes we see Luthien and Huon the Hound, but did you see that fancy Dragonhelm next to her brothers statue? I wonder who that could be... ;)
To me it looks more like Celegorm with Huan, it doesn't look like a female statue. And all of them sport the Fëanorian-like star, was the symbol ever explained by the show creators? It appears in Numenor as well, but knowing the Silmarillion it looks silly when everyone uses a Silmaril as their symbol.
Dr. Olsen is amazing as always. I learned so much. Love the visuals and clips from the show. So great!
It's really funny seeing Dr. Olsen go on about the importance of 'chance' and how much he liked it, and then Dr. Parke the exact opposite finding far too much chance as too 'convenient.'
This is an amazing breakdown! I’ve been searching for something like this!!!! Thank you❤
Maybe they want to have it both ways, the earth is still flat, but Valinor is still shielded by a magic curtain-like portal to prevent people from sailing through randomly. One of Sauron's fake promises to Ar-Pharazon could be a magical way to open that portal to attack the Valar. Wouldn't really prevent the story from turning out as it does in Tolkien's writing... or am I missing something?
The time before the fall of Numenor there is no such thing as "magic curtain" shielding Aman. Several characters have sailed to Aman.
@@mikkelborchsenius1156 Not a magic curtain per se, but there was the Shadowy Seas and the Enchanted Isles, which made sailing to Aman effectively impossible without divine dispensation.
@@joelpartee594 First after the fall of Numenor and not prior to that.
@@mikkelborchsenius1156 The Shadowy Seas and Enchanted Isles were impediments to Eärendil, so definitely before the raising of Numenor and presumably still there throughout Numenor's existence. I'm not sure that it's explicitly described, but my understanding is that either the Valar or Iluvatar Himself had to intervene for Eärendil and later Ar-Pharazon to get through.
Thank you for this. I have listened to both episodes with audio description, but this has helped me understand other points.
I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the portryal of the elves in tRoP. Do you think there was an intention to make them more morally grey, or is it just an accident of the writing? The high-kingship here seems far from the enlightened guardianship described in the Silmarillion. Elves as occupying forces, with jurisdiction over human communities, is one example. Another is the high king’s authority to decide who gets to go to “elven paradise” in Valinor. Galadriel is a Fëanor-like character obsessed with revenge, and shows little regard for the consequences her actions have on the people following her. Gil-Galad and Elrond are lying to Galadriel as they send her off to Valinor under false pretences. They know, or strongly suspect, that she is correct about Sauron but pretend otherwise. Elrond’s promise to his friend that he will take up her quest, should she be proven right, immediately rings hollow. I get the impression that these second age elves are more like the house of Fëanor during the first age than the third age elves described in the Lord if the Rings.
These issues are all examples of bad writing. The show runners didn't/don't understand the legendarium.
You're spot on! And their esthetic which I personally dislike wholeheartedly seems to reflect everything you said.
@@barto_got_game7727 I completely agree you on the aesthetic choices. It's badly done. From hair gell elves, to poor costuming (that looks like costumes, always a bad sign). It's amazing the show runners, with all the funds at their disposal, decided to focus on their activism, rather than a more into a more fully flusehd out and coherent aesthetic model. Weta produced CGI wideshots are one thing, but failure to understand functionality in clothes/armore etc. is hard to get passed.
I actually think Elrond's promise to sort the Sauron problem if it recurs was a beautiful moment. It has its fulifilment in the Council of Elrond millennia later.
Man, I hear what you two are saying, and I know that you're both a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than me. But after watching the first three episodes I'm just not convinced. The world the show presented just seemed a little off and I was constantly wondering, "wait, is that how it should be? Is this faithful to what Tolkien intended and wrote?". And besides all that, I was kind of bored. I kept waiting for the show to grab me, draw me in, or blow me away with it's huge budget but that never happened. I duno, maybe the show gets way better or maybe I'm just no fun, but so far, I'm pretty sad.
Nice video though, the break down of everything is great. I just wish I felt the same way about the show.
Amazing analyses thank you very much 😊
What a great companion to the series are you creating. Kudos from Spain!
I hope this show gets more popular than what your average signup U video does. I’m guessing allowing comments alone will help! Love it!
Just starting watching the video. But thanks Professor! I enjoy your content so much, it made me appreciate Tolkien's work even more.
This is better then so many people that just go scene to scene or just hate on the show. Great format really enjoyed your analysis.
Also, to Dr. Olsen and Dr. Parke, further question on Finrod's oath in the text versus the show: do you think it is also referential to the oath of Feanor and the sons of Feanor? The scene where Finrod and the other elves put their swords together and the idea of it being motivated by anger and grief seems really resonant.
Loved this video. Made me appreciate it a lot more.
Thank you for adding to our viewing experience. Lots of lore masters online are tempted to bear the one ring and talk about how they could of made a better show and determine what is truly Tolkien.
I am pretty sure it has more to do with Gil Galad being the King. So if you are in his service you can not just choose to go back to Valinor until he releases you from service. Much less he probably has domain over all the ships so you need his permission to use them to go home basically.
They could have said something like: " I release you from my service. You are free to go home." But they didn't. I appreciate the retconning but the actual show doesn't really line up with your interpretation in my opinion. There's also that line: "No one ever refused the call". Whose call? Gilgalad's? The Valar's? No way to really know but probably Gilgalad's(?).
"Dad! Can I have the boat keys?"
I like your interpretation. It didn't come across that way to me, but I like your interpretation 😊
I agree. It’s more like he’s just the king and he’s letting her go. He’s also trying to get rid of a troublemaker in a peaceful way.
thats not how tolkien elf kingsship works ....
@@aesir1ases64 Uh, that is exactly how it works. You can't just desert the army and take the kings boat.
That was excellent...a definite must watch. Well done to the whole team involved and I look forward to discussing some of these tomorrow at OM&H!
Beautifully done, Dr Olsen & Dr Maggie. Been refreshing all day. Thoughtful, deep, yet accessible. Looking forward to both the live Other Minds and Hands, plus more of this wonderfully edited material.
Omg i didn't know there was a separate channel! was waiting for this on the other channel
I loved how “goblin-y” the orc felt. Like if you saw a folklore goblin in real life and how unnerving that would be.
Nope. No folklore goblin is described like that.
@@zoebaggins90 😅 well if you say so, I guess it isn't. Want to provide something back up your statement or is your work here complete?
@@Flash4ML do you have any evidence any folklore describes a goblin like this?
Maggie’s insight from a film/story/adaptation pov is astounding. So enjoyable, so much to think about. This discussion show is such an asset to the fans.
Great work! The production value is top notch. This is the definitive Ring of Power analysis.
This was such a great accompaniment to the episodes. So many themes and concepts I did not even pick up on. Can’t wait for more!
We know the Numenorean king led an annual ceremony like a priest-king. The Numenoreans got big cultural elements from the Elves. Might that not suggest that the Valar would use the Elven High King to mediate their pardon upon the Noldor in Middle Earth after the War of Wrath?
Great analysis - very excited to follow the show. Fingers crossed for some satisfying storylines as the show unravels.
So pumped for this!
I don't recall exactly what the LotR says about the world being flat, but it may not ever come up: so the showrunners may be constrained from talking about the change of the world, so may just not discuss it either way.
this guy is amazing
the only thing that bugged me about Durin's elevator moment with Elrond is that he spoke about twenty years as if it was a significant portion of time for him. but dwarves in Tolkien's world live a long time, too -- well over 200 years -- so i just chalked it up to the show trying to make it more meaningful to the viewer by putting it on a level we can relate to. but it still is a niggling thing to me.
I mean, even as a Man, I think I'd consider not speaking to someone in 5 years to be rather long, and I don't think Dwarves are so much longer as to make 20 years trivial.
He was speaking figuratively with a touch of hyperbolae. He got married. He had kids. That changes you and yes, sometimes your old life seems like a different one. So yeah, I noticed it and thought it not literally true, but not sure I'd go as far as niggle.
Wow! So much info explained and analized that my tiny brain was combing through as I have watching the show. Love the deep dives and theories described. Interested to see how the Galadrial and Valinor issue plays out because I was taken back by the high king, simply granting access. I hope they dive into it further in the show. PS please keep up the awesome work, as my love of Tolkiendom is growing with the more I learn and watch these videos!! Thank you so much!!! from a humble tolkien beginner.
This is amazing! One request: could the intro music be edited into stereo instead? With epic music like that It'd make a more immersive experience I feel
HYPE! This production is soooo goood!!
You are a star. I am absolutely LOVING this deep analysis.. so comprehensive… I love Tolkien as a philosopher.. his philosophy gives me so much peace and…. HOPE :) this is such a good companion to the tv show :) bless u