I saw the clip where You answered some questions about LOTR et al, and was interested in the answer of "where are the entwives?" Pippin mentions to Merry that He's heard of moving trees in a forest near the Shire. Buckland forest, if I recall. Isn't that a possible answer?
Wow we don't have doors and locks here in Ireland so we don't have technology so advanced as fake rocks could you send me the schematics and I'll get a scientist to make a prototype
Hi Matt, Fantastic episode! Highest praise for your interviewing style and discipline. Prof Olsen is such an interesting guest with a wealth of knowledge (& passion), & like a master you let him guide the conversation, interrupting only to finesse the course of the discussion. Brilliant interview!
What an incredible video/ interview. I was glued to the screen the whole time. Matt - your videos and content in general is just at such a high quality! Keep bringing on these fab interviews and future live streams please 😊🧝♂️
I came across this while surfing your back videos Matt, what an incredible, entertaining interview! You can see Dr Olsen's excitement and passion coming through the whole time with a smile on his face.
I am 100% certain that Tolkien himself stated that Sauron had his Ring in Numenor, and that a spirit carrying it back was not at all mind boggling. Keep in mind it was likely not visible to others while worn, like the Elven rings are also. And surely Sauron the Deceiver would be able to hide its power from others, even if he didnt forge like fifteen failsafes into it, which he did. 😂
1:16:00 A similar attitude exists in academic circles for music, and probably most of the arts. I had a few professors who expressed their disdain for some 20th and 21st century composers by saying their music was "pretty", like that was the worst thing a work could be. I get that it may not be as complex or cerebral as something that sounds like noise until you've done enough research to write a dissertation, but in my mind a lack of clarity and accessibility is always less admirable than an abundance.
@@Serai3 I look at it from the perspective presented in this video: it’s the academics who don’t like the “pretty” stuff, but it’s still being made by people who don’t care what the snobs think. And they’re popular.
I was and still am very much hoping for a proper adaptation of Beren and Luthien story. It could be done as a miniseries. Keeping my fingers crossed that some day it will happen : 3
I always thought Sauron left the ring in Mordor for a specific and shrewd purpose: If his plan to use the Numenorians to destroy Valinor fails, he will be destroyed in return (along with Numenor). So he leaves the ring in Mordor as a free revive, so to speak. He cannot be destroyed as long as the ring endures. If he takes the ring to Numenor, yes he is significantly more powerful, but he also risks losing it forever at the bottom of the ocean. As we saw, it ended up being a prescient decision, because even though Sauron loses his ability to take on his “fair form” after the events of Numenor, he’s still as powerful as ever due to the ring remaining safe back in Mordor the whole time.
Oh they better stick to the second age, no overlap with the actual lord of the rings. In fact, it's better if you change your name from lotr, Peregrin Took.
You two would be great for a LotR on Prime aftershow. Putting episodes into context and discussing them every week after they air (unless it's released all at once, but I doubt it).
I love the conversation about Rhun and Harad and how they would have been fully fledged cultures with multiple kingdoms and their own histories. I would love to see things from their perspective more. I want to know what their MYTHOLOGIES are like.
As a former soldier myself one of my favorite lines in LOTR is this: "He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace" Powerful words by a soldier that had actually seen war.
awwww my god I love this. You two are incredibly amazing people and I love how you both get right into it. I love Corey's background its freaking awesome!
40:30 I think a Blue Wizard show would be amazing! The theories of them either hindering or helping the Enemy in the East still fit in my own head canon, and I’d love to see what a collaboration of Tolkien-loving writers could make out of a solidly funded network series.
How can a fan of the Silm Film Project help out and contribute in some way or another? Also, I would pay money for listening to the Prof and Colbert riff with each other!?
I'm so love that you bring to your "youtube" channel so great guests like professor dr. Corey. He is amazing! And I learn alot from him and do making my story in my mind of what corey said about the story of the rings of power and the story of n'umenor:). Thanks!
"Though reduced to a 'spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended." [The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #211)
I would think a Tolkien professor would know that Tolkien himself stated in letter 211 that Sauron had the ring in Numenor. The published texts only say that he took up the ring again, and that's where everybody assumes he left it behind. Yet it never says that. He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans... Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.
About Sauron leaving his ring, I think we can just assume that whenever Sauron actually wears the ring, he can't hide how evil he is. He left it, probably locked in a safe, because he had a plan to ingratiate himself within the king's council and destroy the Numenorians from the inside out. I don't think he could have hidden his motives from the Numenorians with the ring on his finger or on a chain around his neck. We know that good people become evil when they wield the ring, so why wouldn't Sauron's evil be amplified so they would be able to see through his facade? So he left it behind.
Not a bad theory. Although I feel like wearing it on a chain around the neck would have been fine, but wearing it on the finger with those radiating engravings, that probably wouldn't have flown 😂😂😂
I think perhaps this phenomenon on what is quality material or not has to do more with the degree to which perspective is shifted than by simply being difficult, and time is a big factor in this. So when something paradigm shifting has been popularized for long enough it loses its special place. Anyway thanks for posting this. You guys could have easily spent the entire video on the first question
I dont see the Numenor/Ring thing as an issue. Its not like they took Sauron in battle or something when he had no time to hide it, he handed himself over with plenty time before he choose to do so to make whatever preperations he wished for the Ring. So long as the Ring existed he could not be ultimately destroyed so it actually makes more sense he wouldnt take it with him when he hands himself over to the largest military force in the world who oppose him. By leaving it behind he knows that even if the worst happens to him in Numenor and they put him to death its only a set back, another body to lose, he isnt going anywhere so long as the Ring is safe and whole. If I was Sauron I'd not have taken it with me either, is way to big a risk.
The Silmarillion would work really well as a episodic series I think. Since all the chapters are essentially short stories that feed into a larger narrative. Maybe have it all culminate in a movie length war of wrath. That'd be sick
U guys need to do another interview at the end of season 1 rings of power and honestly I think u guys should do more interviews in general u guys bring alot to the table on tolkien and all his writings awesome interview dude!
I think the best Bombadil theory is he is a creation, like Ungoliant, but the opposite, of the dissonance created in the music of the Ainur, it seems logical that an evil creation such as Ungoliant, one that no one knew where "she" came from, from the music would have an equally mystical creation for the good.
I just heard that Rings of Power has been worked on since 2014. That would have been at least seven years before this interview. Corey Olsen said six years ago they began the SilmFilm project. SO CLOSE.
The downside. It's being financed by a company headed by one of Morgoth's lesser thralls. Maybe they'll be telling it from Sauron's perspective. They'd only need to consult with Jeffery and his contingent of wraiths.
I have friends that refuse to read fantasy because " it's not proper literature" ! Because they only read serious stuff...because they are petulant and want to look very academic and intelligent. One of my" nieces" started reading with Harry Potter against her parents will, because it wasn't proper literature for someone with academic ambitions and they view it as me being childish and making their child to believe in magic and fairies. But soon she asked me to start reading them in english,( english is not our language) so I gave her a Harry Potter book in english, the same with Jane Austen and Tolkien. She is now fluent in english. She is an avid reader of all genres and did brilliantly academically. I would say i did a good job with my childish tastes in books.
I would begin the show with the scene where chelebrimbor and narvi open the door of durin for the first time. Everyone would identify it and throw them to the past when the audience realises they are brand new opposite to the relic of the first movie
In the books, he doesn't get stabbed where his mithril would cover, but on the neck, as the orcs say... "She's got more than one poison. When she's hunting, she just gives 'em a stab in the neck and they go as limp as a boned fish, and then she has her way with them."
@@NerdoftheRings thank you so much for the response. Totally right. Makes more sense. I watch all your content for all my LOTR info. Keep up the good work.
Could you also recommend a reading order for the Tolkien books. I’ve seen so many different orders, I feel like your recommendation is pretty accurate.
Would have loved to see JRRR argue with these guys about plot holes and about the failure of the other wizards. After reading all I can about him, his letters and published works and works compiled by his son Christopher - and critics like these.... I can just say that JRRR's imagination and knowledge, his son's Christopher's attention to detail is a combination that will probably never be surpassed in quality and depth ever.
My take on the Numenor ring issue is that the one ring was taken by Sauron under his non material form upon his body destruction. Ring grants invisibilty through "plane" shifting. This allows material things to be outside material plane. This type of "solution" is even more likely with Sauron wearing his very own ring.
Curiously enough, LOTR has become one of those "good books" mentioned because it's a tough read without a good dictionary. No hand-holding by Tolkien. Reading comprehension has taken a big dive during the last decades. I'd bet not even half the people who buy it actually finish it.
I guess that is because Tolkien was known for preferring english words that has saxon roots rather than Latin words. Which is kind of part of the charm of his writing and his style.
31:47 OH MY GOD I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY HERE. So context: I liked the Hobbit movies for the production value and the performances and action, but was severely disappointed by the failure to adapt the Hobbit. I like them for being High Fantasy Action and a few other scenes, but that was not “The Hobbit: Or There and Back Again”, that was a studio taking that book and making “The Hobbit: A Prelude to Lord of the Rings”. So I decided I wanted to adapt to Hobbit myself and make it a TV show that toned down the LotR references and just adapted the Hobbit with some changes to make it more fun. So, keeping the idea of keeping a lot of details in there, I split the story up into 30-minute snippets vaguely following the chapters. Kind of elongating the Battle of the Five Armies (because I was never a fan of how built up it was and was never truly shown), I had 18 episodes planned. That’s 9 hours of content. Adaptations are HARD with movies.
I had a very similar experience with my first reading of the Silmarillion. I was also 14 years old and I felt like so stupid after trying to read it like something was wrong with me lmao
I read the Silmarillion at 16 years old (I only know this because I remember testing for college level classes at the time I was procrastinating with personal reading) and I just remember feeling like I was reading an history textbook until the Luthien and Beren story. Thankfully I had gotten used to reading my history textbooks by that point, lol.
Tolkien expert Cory Olsen: “we actually know very little about central characters. What colour is Merry’s hair? No idea, he never says.” Tolkien: A young man he looked, or like one, though not much more than half a man in height; his head of brown curling hair was uncovered, but he was clad in a travel-stained cloak of the same hue and shape as the companions of Gandalf had worn when they rode to Edoras. He bowed very low, putting his hand upon his breast. Then, seeming not to observe the wizard and his friends, he turned to Eomer and the king. ‘Welcome, my lords, to Isengard!’ he said. We are the doorwardens, Meriadoc, son of Saradoc is my name. The Two Towers, book 3, chapter 8, the Road to Isengard.
I love how passionate you both are, it's so endearing. It is true, there is SO much material to work with for the right producers, writers, actors, and directors. Let us Tolkien Stans hope this ends up being the Law and Order of fantasy fans if they play their cards right. I'd definitely be a lifelong viewer.
I've a couple of questions any Tolkien loremaster can answer on any channel: When Thingol wore a Silmaril was he more impressive (reflecting the Light of Blessedness) than Melian the Maia. The other thing I noticed was that Melian the Maia was noted as being The Most skilled of all the Maia in enchantments. Was that the reason she could repel Ungoliant who just about ate up Melkor? I would guess she was more skilled than Sauron at least in the area of enchantments.
This guy reminds me of what Christopher Tolkien had to say; "They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25. Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time. The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away."
I’ve just rewatched Hobbit and LOTR, and I really crave more 😬 Any suggestions from the pro’s here? Should i read the books? Is there a youtube series? Or play LOTR pc-games? Thanks 🤞
The books really do add an extra dimension of knowledge that if you’re craving more you will certainly get in its purest form. I’d suggest the audiobook voiced by Rob Inglis!
I think some explanation for why the spirit of Sauron would have been able to 'suck' and retain the ring with him (a physical object), because maybe it had a great part of his 'soul' and spirit, and be able to bring it back to Midfle Earth with him. That, IMO, would be better than try to explain why and how Sauron would leave the ring behind when going to Númenor.
re - 25:00 and _THE Plot Hole_ So, why would Sauron set his ring aside? The Numenoreans had been defeating his forces at every turn for many years before Sauron was captured. When his forces were finally crushed (surrendering without a fight), Sauron would have known that he'd have been killed or taken prisoner. As a prisoner, the Numenorean king or any of Saurons jailors would have surely seen and taken any golden rings he would have been wearing. It only makes sense that before Sauron surrendered himself into Ar-Pharazon's mercy, that he would have hid his ring and set the Nazgul to guard it. If he had NOT removed and hidden his ring, it's likely that someone in Numenor would have demanded it from him. It's unlikely that Sauron would have surrendered his ring willingly to someone who would then have replaced him as the new Dark Lord, so he would have fought for it. If Sauron together with the might of all of his armies and servants could not defeat the Numenoreans, then Sauron by himself would have stood little chance. If he had the ring on him, someone in Numenor would have demanded it from him. Sauron would fight for possession of it and would eventually have been killed and then the ring would be taken from his corpse. Either the King or some guard or warrior would take the ring, Sauron would be [bodily] dead and as Tolkien wrote elsewhere, a new Dark Lord would then rise. I don't think it's a plot hole that Sauron wasn't wearing the ring when he was taken to Numenor as a prisoner. I think it was a well thought out development, however, you have to be able to do joined-up thinking for more than five seconds to be able to see that it wasn't a plot hole...
Holy crap i am fan for years of the books and movies and just heard here that there is game, and embarrassing enough i am a big gamer since childhood :O ..Thanks for the video. Big fan also! :)
25:00 "Though reduced to a 'spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended." [The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 211)
Around 1 hour in, when talking about sex appeal and how neither Tolkien nor Jackson use it, I have to disagree about Jackson because of one specific moment: when Aragorn throws open those doors at Helms Deep.
Hello, great show! In re: Sauron's ring vis a vis the catastrophe of the Second Age: My understanding was that someone wrote JRRT: "Disembodied Sauron carrying ring off to Mordor? How does this happen?" And Professor T responded in a letter, me paraphrasing: "It's not too big a stretch for me to imagine Him, as a disembodied ' spirit of malice, ' making off, somehow physically carrying the One ring with him to Mordor, considering that it's Sauron we're talking about. Does he really NEED a body?" Doesn't QUITE say, "Well, hell, it's a Fantasy story, right?" But Almost. Letter quote must be findable. Love is the . . . I mean, A Bright Star shineth upon the hour of our meeting! --MM
Hmm for me personally I have to disagree with him on the movie vs series adaptation. No series will ever have the epic scope of a movie. Its not the point of a movie adaptation of a book to transfer every bit of story onto the screen. If you want to experience the whole lore with all its details you can always go and pick up the book. A movie has to condense the core story of the book and interpret that.
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! I am sorry, I'm sure this is off topic a little bit. I was listening to the Tolkien professors( I don't want to say lecture) podcast I suppose? About Balrog wings and old Tom Bombadil. And I pose that Tom Bombadil being there before all else is because he was a children's story character Tolkien wrote, or told before all else. Therefore he was there before all else. Does that make sense? Or am I just 100% waaaaay off?
I disagree about "big plot hole" of Sauron caring the ring (or not caring) into the Numenor. I personally think he didn't care it (because, if I remember correctly, Tolkien clearly said that after Sauron return into the middle Earth "he took back his ring"). And I personally think there's no the slightest threat of Sauron leaving the ring to the Nazguls for keeping. Nazguls are so bound to Sauron will, that they will obey anything he wants. Also, he had their rings in his possession (probably hidden), so that's another reason, why Nazguls would be safest servants to watch over it. And yes, they wanted to bring Frodo into Mordor, but more for the torture for revenge, then like carrier. And what if Sauron took the ring into Numenor? Why people thing it would be so hard to him to bring it over the sea? He is a shapeshifter, he brought weather conditions all over the Mordor (even when he lost his shapeshifting abilities (even without the ring - lol)),.. would it be so hard for him, to create some sort of a small storm, and carry within it himself and the ring? I mean.. it's a ring... it's not aircraft carrier. :)
Someone on reddit (u/Wiles_) answered this by referencing Tolkien's letter number 211: "Sauron was first defeated by a 'miracle': a direct action of God the Creator, changing the fashion of the world, when appealed to by Manwë: see III p. 317. *Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.* That Sauron was not himself destroyed in the anger of the One is not my fault: the problem of evil, and its apparent toleration, is a permanent one for all who concern themselves with our world. The indestructibility of spirits with free wills, even by the Creator of them, is also an inevitable feature, if one either believes in their existence, or feigns it in a story."
48:00 To the whole topic of us never seeing the good Haradrim or people from Rhun: Even in the Silmarillion we get 'good easterlings', namely the House of Bór that stays true to Maedhros and protects the Eldar from Ulfang's sons with their lives!
27:04 I always thought the Nazgul were talking to the ring not Frodo. Well not the ring itself but that part of Sauron that he imparted to the ring. It was hinted at a few times in the book(s) that the ring had a mind of its own. That's why it would slip from one person to the next.
Really like this video. Thanks. I am myself a big fan of all the Tolkien writing and i am bit confuse by the rage that a lot of supposly Tolkien's fan. A lot of them only see the PJ movies, used them like a canon. The funny thing its Christopher Tolkien was not a fan of those movies. Every body have to take a big breath and relax a bit ;) They forget also that all the writing of Tolkien (except LOTR and the Hobbit) was the amazing job by his son. A lot of writing of them was remade by Christopher. He try to make something coherent from all the changing writing of his father. We all of what happens, i only want to read again the biography and the letters of Tolkien ;) (sorry for my english, i am french canadian )
Not sure Sauron leaving the ring on middle Earth before going to surrender to the Numenoreans is necessarily a plot hole. The Nazgûl were personally loyal to Sauron, not just the ring, so entrusting them with the ring would not have been a problem. And taking the ring with him could have risked it being confiscated since the Numenoreans would likely have heard of the rings of power.
The problem with Legolas and Tauriel wasn't their bare presence, it was the fact that their characters added simply nothing to the story. Them being just "there" had no point. Plus the awful writing and dialogue. If you wanna add them, fine. But please write a proper storyline for them.
My understanding is that Amazon has TV rights to the Silmarillion and at least some of the Unfinished Tales. They are planning 5 seasons -- FIVE! Disney has movie rights to LOTR, which is why they are doing an anime thing and a game. Disney can't make TV adaptations, and Amazon can't make movies. Does Amazon have TV rights to Hobbit and LOTR as well? What I read online is confusing and even contradictory.
For those who criticize the "love triangle" in the Hobbit Trilogy, there isn't really one. Sure, Thranduil counsels Tauriel against giving Legolas hope "where there is none," and Legolas tells Tauriel she is near and dear to his heart, but referencing your heart does not necessarily betray sexual desire. Honestly, the relationship between Legolas and Tauriel seems to more like that of siblings than potential lovers.
I was wondering if it might be a good idea, for anyone dramatising the early Middle Earth times, if they showed the world creation bits and Valinor as an animated story. It would set that realm apart from the ''real world'' story.
Letter #211: ...He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans...I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended". looks like he had the one ring and was able to retrieve it.
Be sure to check out the Professor's work at ruclips.net/user/SignumUniversity !
I saw the clip where You answered some questions about LOTR et al, and was interested in the answer of "where are the entwives?" Pippin mentions to Merry that He's heard of moving trees in a forest near the Shire. Buckland forest, if I recall. Isn't that a possible answer?
Well this aged well... He sold his passion and life work for money and fame. A life lesson for us all
@BobDown448 what do you mean by this comment?
@@jamesbrealgHe meant Olsen's praise of the Rings of Power. And I agree.
No, thank you, no clicking. What a shame.
Sauron put The Ring in one of those fake rocks that we hide keys in for our house here in the States.
☝️
🤣
Wow we don't have doors and locks here in Ireland so we don't have technology so advanced as fake rocks could you send me the schematics and I'll get a scientist to make a prototype
@@patrickdodd908 The guy is from the States. Pardon them for maybe not knowing other places have fake rocks
The passion he brings to Tolkien is invigorating.
the dude is a sellout to amazon
@@halo2player3 oh, stfu
Wait to watch it first
Complete and utter shameless shill
Hi Matt, Fantastic episode! Highest praise for your interviewing style and discipline. Prof Olsen is such an interesting guest with a wealth of knowledge (& passion), & like a master you let him guide the conversation, interrupting only to finesse the course of the discussion. Brilliant interview!
I agree !
I could listen to Corey talk about Tolkien’s works all day, every day.
not anymore
@@InsertTheCoin1997 not anymore
Sold his credibility.. money and ideology over art and passion.
@@pequeniobrucex8664 What is this referring to?
Well this aged well... He sold his passion and life work for money and fame. A life lesson for us all
This was awesome! Thank you for hosting this Matt, and massive respect to Corey Olsen! Listened to it all as a podcast, and had a great time :)
I got a new job so I couldn't be here for the live today, so bummed I missed it but I'm watching now! Thank you for this Nerd!
congrats on your new job!
Congrats
lol why you gotta call him a nerd tho !
Stephen Colbert, the challenge has been made! geek out with this man.
Colbert is actually a fan of his work. Follows Corey's podcast
Always good to hear Professor Olsen!
What an incredible video/ interview. I was glued to the screen the whole time. Matt - your videos and content in general is just at such a high quality! Keep bringing on these fab interviews and future live streams please 😊🧝♂️
I'm gonna toss my star wars, Harry Potter and Tolkien books on my coffee table now. Proud nerd flex on company lol
I came across this while surfing your back videos Matt, what an incredible, entertaining interview! You can see Dr Olsen's excitement and passion coming through the whole time with a smile on his face.
I am 100% certain that Tolkien himself stated that Sauron had his Ring in Numenor, and that a spirit carrying it back was not at all mind boggling. Keep in mind it was likely not visible to others while worn, like the Elven rings are also. And surely Sauron the Deceiver would be able to hide its power from others, even if he didnt forge like fifteen failsafes into it, which he did. 😂
1:16:00 A similar attitude exists in academic circles for music, and probably most of the arts. I had a few professors who expressed their disdain for some 20th and 21st century composers by saying their music was "pretty", like that was the worst thing a work could be. I get that it may not be as complex or cerebral as something that sounds like noise until you've done enough research to write a dissertation, but in my mind a lack of clarity and accessibility is always less admirable than an abundance.
I look forward to the day when beauty is once again welcome in the world of art. Because this ugly worship just bores me no end.
@@Serai3 I look at it from the perspective presented in this video: it’s the academics who don’t like the “pretty” stuff, but it’s still being made by people who don’t care what the snobs think. And they’re popular.
I was and still am very much hoping for a proper adaptation of Beren and Luthien story. It could be done as a miniseries. Keeping my fingers crossed that some day it will happen : 3
Professor Olsen's SilmFilm series will reach that point in the next season!
I always thought Sauron left the ring in Mordor for a specific and shrewd purpose:
If his plan to use the Numenorians to destroy Valinor fails, he will be destroyed in return (along with Numenor). So he leaves the ring in Mordor as a free revive, so to speak. He cannot be destroyed as long as the ring endures. If he takes the ring to Numenor, yes he is significantly more powerful, but he also risks losing it forever at the bottom of the ocean.
As we saw, it ended up being a prescient decision, because even though Sauron loses his ability to take on his “fair form” after the events of Numenor, he’s still as powerful as ever due to the ring remaining safe back in Mordor the whole time.
Awesome! Thanks for coming on Corey! I follow you on twitter you are awesome!
As a James Joyce fanatic I'm pleased to hear his name mentioned during a podcast about my second favorite author.
Oh they better stick to the second age, no overlap with the actual lord of the rings. In fact, it's better if you change your name from lotr, Peregrin Took.
To cast anyone But the originals as the fellowship Will be a travesty
Fantastic episode, thanks for bringing the professor to share his appreciation for Tolkien!
Just finished watching, what an amazing interview! I hope we'll see more of Corey on your channel soon! : 3
I'm bit late to the party but never too late for this subject. You have had some incredible interviews and this one is one of them definitely.
You two would be great for a LotR on Prime aftershow. Putting episodes into context and discussing them every week after they air (unless it's released all at once, but I doubt it).
I love the conversation about Rhun and Harad and how they would have been fully fledged cultures with multiple kingdoms and their own histories. I would love to see things from their perspective more. I want to know what their MYTHOLOGIES are like.
As a former soldier myself one of my favorite lines in LOTR is this:
"He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace"
Powerful words by a soldier that had actually seen war.
Me too, but I don't want wokesters to tell me what happened.
awwww my god I love this. You two are incredibly amazing people and I love how you both get right into it. I love Corey's background its freaking awesome!
40:30 I think a Blue Wizard show would be amazing! The theories of them either hindering or helping the Enemy in the East still fit in my own head canon, and I’d love to see what a collaboration of Tolkien-loving writers could make out of a solidly funded network series.
Found out about Corey today. Great to see you Matt done video with him. Looking farward to watch the clip. Thanks!:)
Please put the flying the eagles to Mordor to rest, lol. Great hearing from the Tolkien Professor, as usual.
How in the world did I miss this? Top shelf.
How can a fan of the Silm Film Project help out and contribute in some way or another? Also, I would pay money for listening to the Prof and Colbert riff with each other!?
Hey, if you reply to this, the notification will remind me to get you a link when I'm done with work.
@@nickpalazzo6585 hello! This is my reply! Lol
@@ofgondor5312 I'm under the same name there. Feel free to send me a PM on the boards and we'll get you acclimated.
@@ofgondor5312 OK. It won't let me post a link. Google Signum University forums and you should get there.
I think I've listened to this 4 or more times
I'm a newer subscriber but I love the content and this particular is absolutely awesome. Thanks man!
I'm so love that you bring to your "youtube" channel so great guests like professor dr. Corey. He is amazing! And I learn alot from him and do making my story in my mind of what corey said about the story of the rings of power and the story of n'umenor:). Thanks!
Just started the podcast recently, anyone that can say "Wormtongueian" in a convincing sentence is a good person in my book.
O nice, something to listen to in the last hours of my night shift ♥️👍
"Though reduced to a 'spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended."
[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #211)
This was awesome, very much appreciated
I would think a Tolkien professor would know that Tolkien himself stated in letter 211 that Sauron had the ring in Numenor. The published texts only say that he took up the ring again, and that's where everybody assumes he left it behind. Yet it never says that.
He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans... Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.
About Sauron leaving his ring, I think we can just assume that whenever Sauron actually wears the ring, he can't hide how evil he is. He left it, probably locked in a safe, because he had a plan to ingratiate himself within the king's council and destroy the Numenorians from the inside out. I don't think he could have hidden his motives from the Numenorians with the ring on his finger or on a chain around his neck. We know that good people become evil when they wield the ring, so why wouldn't Sauron's evil be amplified so they would be able to see through his facade? So he left it behind.
Not a bad theory. Although I feel like wearing it on a chain around the neck would have been fine, but wearing it on the finger with those radiating engravings, that probably wouldn't have flown 😂😂😂
@@muenchhausenmusic
😂😂😂😂 You are so right!
So cool and inspiring. Thanks for these terrific interviews.
Great interview! So much fun to watch!
I think perhaps this phenomenon on what is quality material or not has to do more with the degree to which perspective is shifted than by simply being difficult, and time is a big factor in this. So when something paradigm shifting has been popularized for long enough it loses its special place. Anyway thanks for posting this. You guys could have easily spent the entire video on the first question
I dont see the Numenor/Ring thing as an issue. Its not like they took Sauron in battle or something when he had no time to hide it, he handed himself over with plenty time before he choose to do so to make whatever preperations he wished for the Ring. So long as the Ring existed he could not be ultimately destroyed so it actually makes more sense he wouldnt take it with him when he hands himself over to the largest military force in the world who oppose him. By leaving it behind he knows that even if the worst happens to him in Numenor and they put him to death its only a set back, another body to lose, he isnt going anywhere so long as the Ring is safe and whole. If I was Sauron I'd not have taken it with me either, is way to big a risk.
Yeah I assumed he wouldn't have!
The Silmarillion would work really well as a episodic series I think. Since all the chapters are essentially short stories that feed into a larger narrative. Maybe have it all culminate in a movie length war of wrath. That'd be sick
U guys need to do another interview at the end of season 1 rings of power and honestly I think u guys should do more interviews in general u guys bring alot to the table on tolkien and all his writings awesome interview dude!
I think the best Bombadil theory is he is a creation, like Ungoliant, but the opposite, of the dissonance created in the music of the Ainur, it seems logical that an evil creation such as Ungoliant, one that no one knew where "she" came from, from the music would have an equally mystical creation for the good.
I just heard that Rings of Power has been worked on since 2014. That would have been at least seven years before this interview. Corey Olsen said six years ago they began the SilmFilm project. SO CLOSE.
Thank you so much
The downside.
It's being financed by a company headed by one of Morgoth's lesser thralls.
Maybe they'll be telling it from Sauron's perspective.
They'd only need to consult with Jeffery and his contingent of wraiths.
I have friends that refuse to read fantasy because " it's not proper literature" ! Because they only read serious stuff...because they are petulant and want to look very academic and intelligent. One of my" nieces" started reading with Harry Potter against her parents will, because it wasn't proper literature for someone with academic ambitions and they view it as me being childish and making their child to believe in magic and fairies. But soon she asked me to start reading them in english,( english is not our language) so I gave her a Harry Potter book in english, the same with Jane Austen and Tolkien. She is now fluent in english. She is an avid reader of all genres and did brilliantly academically. I would say i did a good job with my childish tastes in books.
I would begin the show with the scene where chelebrimbor and narvi open the door of durin for the first time. Everyone would identify it and throw them to the past when the audience realises they are brand new opposite to the relic of the first movie
A superb interview!
I have a question. How does shelob’s stinger penetrate through Frodo’s mithril armor? Shouldn’t that armor be impossible to break?
In the books, he doesn't get stabbed where his mithril would cover, but on the neck, as the orcs say...
"She's got more than one poison. When she's hunting, she just gives 'em a stab in the neck and they go as limp as a boned fish, and then she has her way with them."
@@NerdoftheRings thank you so much for the response. Totally right. Makes more sense. I watch all your content for all my LOTR info. Keep up the good work.
Could you also recommend a reading order for the Tolkien books. I’ve seen so many different orders, I feel like your recommendation is pretty accurate.
Makes me think of the tobacco industry when they hired "doctors" to promote that smoking is good for your health.
Would have loved to see JRRR argue with these guys about plot holes and about the failure of the other wizards.
After reading all I can about him, his letters and published works and works compiled by his son Christopher - and critics like these....
I can just say that JRRR's imagination and knowledge, his son's Christopher's attention to detail is a combination that will probably never be surpassed in quality and depth ever.
Two titans of Tolkien´s lore, just epic!!
My take on the Numenor ring issue is that the one ring was taken by Sauron under his non material form upon his body destruction. Ring grants invisibilty through "plane" shifting. This allows material things to be outside material plane. This type of "solution" is even more likely with Sauron wearing his very own ring.
Curiously enough, LOTR has become one of those "good books" mentioned because it's a tough read without a good dictionary. No hand-holding by Tolkien.
Reading comprehension has taken a big dive during the last decades. I'd bet not even half the people who buy it actually finish it.
I guess that is because Tolkien was known for preferring english words that has saxon roots rather than Latin words. Which is kind of part of the charm of his writing and his style.
Loved this!
31:47 OH MY GOD I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY HERE. So context: I liked the Hobbit movies for the production value and the performances and action, but was severely disappointed by the failure to adapt the Hobbit. I like them for being High Fantasy Action and a few other scenes, but that was not “The Hobbit: Or There and Back Again”, that was a studio taking that book and making “The Hobbit: A Prelude to Lord of the Rings”. So I decided I wanted to adapt to Hobbit myself and make it a TV show that toned down the LotR references and just adapted the Hobbit with some changes to make it more fun. So, keeping the idea of keeping a lot of details in there, I split the story up into 30-minute snippets vaguely following the chapters. Kind of elongating the Battle of the Five Armies (because I was never a fan of how built up it was and was never truly shown), I had 18 episodes planned. That’s 9 hours of content. Adaptations are HARD with movies.
I had a very similar experience with my first reading of the Silmarillion. I was also 14 years old and I felt like so stupid after trying to read it like something was wrong with me lmao
I read the Silmarillion at 16 years old (I only know this because I remember testing for college level classes at the time I was procrastinating with personal reading) and I just remember feeling like I was reading an history textbook until the Luthien and Beren story. Thankfully I had gotten used to reading my history textbooks by that point, lol.
Darn i missed the stream, Great video though!
Tolkien expert Cory Olsen: “we actually know very little about central characters. What colour is Merry’s hair? No idea, he never says.”
Tolkien: A young man he looked, or like one, though not much more than half a man in height; his head of brown curling hair was uncovered, but he was clad in a travel-stained cloak of the same hue and shape as the companions of Gandalf had worn when they rode to Edoras. He bowed very low, putting his hand upon his breast.
Then, seeming not to observe the wizard and his friends, he turned to Eomer and the king. ‘Welcome, my lords, to Isengard!’ he said. We are the doorwardens, Meriadoc, son of Saradoc is my name.
The Two Towers, book 3, chapter 8, the Road to Isengard.
He sold his passion and life work for money and fame. A life lesson for us all
Y
@@Craig_Tucker48or he forgot
I’m watching this so late and now I have to see if there’s a video on Corey’s thoughts after the first season of rop
It’s time to get Corey back on to discuss the Rings of Power!
ruclips.net/video/O5etaXw2MgQ/видео.html oof
I love how passionate you both are, it's so endearing. It is true, there is SO much material to work with for the right producers, writers, actors, and directors. Let us Tolkien Stans hope this ends up being the Law and Order of fantasy fans if they play their cards right. I'd definitely be a lifelong viewer.
Corey is so hype!
I've a couple of questions any Tolkien loremaster can answer on any channel: When Thingol wore a Silmaril was he more impressive (reflecting the Light of Blessedness) than Melian the Maia. The other thing I noticed was that Melian the Maia was noted as being The Most skilled of all the Maia in enchantments. Was that the reason she could repel Ungoliant who just about ate up Melkor? I would guess she was more skilled than Sauron at least in the area of enchantments.
This guy reminds me of what Christopher Tolkien had to say;
"They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25. Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time. The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away."
I’ve just rewatched Hobbit and LOTR, and I really crave more 😬 Any suggestions from the pro’s here? Should i read the books? Is there a youtube series? Or play LOTR pc-games? Thanks 🤞
Ooh and great interview !
The books really do add an extra dimension of knowledge that if you’re craving more you will certainly get in its purest form. I’d suggest the audiobook voiced by Rob Inglis!
I think some explanation for why the spirit of Sauron would have been able to 'suck' and retain the ring with him (a physical object), because maybe it had a great part of his 'soul' and spirit, and be able to bring it back to Midfle Earth with him. That, IMO, would be better than try to explain why and how Sauron would leave the ring behind when going to Númenor.
re - 25:00 and _THE Plot Hole_
So, why would Sauron set his ring aside? The Numenoreans had been defeating his forces at every turn for many years before Sauron was captured. When his forces were finally crushed (surrendering without a fight), Sauron would have known that he'd have been killed or taken prisoner. As a prisoner, the Numenorean king or any of Saurons jailors would have surely seen and taken any golden rings he would have been wearing. It only makes sense that before Sauron surrendered himself into Ar-Pharazon's mercy, that he would have hid his ring and set the Nazgul to guard it. If he had NOT removed and hidden his ring, it's likely that someone in Numenor would have demanded it from him. It's unlikely that Sauron would have surrendered his ring willingly to someone who would then have replaced him as the new Dark Lord, so he would have fought for it. If Sauron together with the might of all of his armies and servants could not defeat the Numenoreans, then Sauron by himself would have stood little chance. If he had the ring on him, someone in Numenor would have demanded it from him. Sauron would fight for possession of it and would eventually have been killed and then the ring would be taken from his corpse. Either the King or some guard or warrior would take the ring, Sauron would be [bodily] dead and as Tolkien wrote elsewhere, a new Dark Lord would then rise.
I don't think it's a plot hole that Sauron wasn't wearing the ring when he was taken to Numenor as a prisoner. I think it was a well thought out development, however, you have to be able to do joined-up thinking for more than five seconds to be able to see that it wasn't a plot hole...
This interview has made me more interested in playing LOTRO. I’m a little bored with GW and WoW so I’d love to check out that world.
Lotro and the old republic are the best mmos imo
Holy crap i am fan for years of the books and movies and just heard here that there is game, and embarrassing enough i am a big gamer since childhood :O ..Thanks for the video. Big fan also! :)
Hahah I had the exact same reaction 😆 Now I wish I had a pc to play it on
I'm putting Sauron on top of my Christmas tree this year
You joke but the Eye of Sauron would make a dope Christmas tree topper...
@@ethanskywalker I definitely wasn't joking lol
@@therealjtgill Excellent
Sauron is the reason for the season.
@@nickpalazzo6585 Sauronmas
25:00 "Though reduced to a 'spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended."
[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 211)
At first I thought you said you’d be including Beor through Dagor Dagorath in one season. That’s what I call ambitious.
Around 1 hour in, when talking about sex appeal and how neither Tolkien nor Jackson use it, I have to disagree about Jackson because of one specific moment: when Aragorn throws open those doors at Helms Deep.
Hello, great show! In re: Sauron's ring vis a vis the catastrophe of the Second Age: My understanding was that someone wrote JRRT: "Disembodied Sauron carrying ring off to Mordor? How does this happen?" And Professor T responded in a letter, me paraphrasing: "It's not too big a stretch for me to imagine Him, as a disembodied ' spirit of malice, ' making off, somehow physically carrying the One ring with him to Mordor, considering that it's Sauron we're talking about. Does he really NEED a body?" Doesn't QUITE say, "Well, hell, it's a Fantasy story, right?" But Almost. Letter quote must be findable.
Love is the . . . I mean,
A Bright Star shineth upon the hour of our meeting!
--MM
Hmm for me personally I have to disagree with him on the movie vs series adaptation. No series will ever have the epic scope of a movie. Its not the point of a movie adaptation of a book to transfer every bit of story onto the screen. If you want to experience the whole lore with all its details you can always go and pick up the book. A movie has to condense the core story of the book and interpret that.
great passion, great knowledge, great video
Wow the 2 nerds at once 🤩
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
I am sorry, I'm sure this is off topic a little bit. I was listening to the Tolkien professors( I don't want to say lecture) podcast I suppose? About Balrog wings and old Tom Bombadil.
And I pose that Tom Bombadil being there before all else is because he was a children's story character Tolkien wrote, or told before all else. Therefore he was there before all else. Does that make sense? Or am I just 100% waaaaay off?
Damn that talk about the Amazon series did not age well
I disagree about "big plot hole" of Sauron caring the ring (or not caring) into the Numenor.
I personally think he didn't care it (because, if I remember correctly, Tolkien clearly said that after Sauron return into the middle Earth "he took back his ring").
And I personally think there's no the slightest threat of Sauron leaving the ring to the Nazguls for keeping. Nazguls are so bound to Sauron will, that they will obey anything he wants. Also, he had their rings in his possession (probably hidden), so that's another reason, why Nazguls would be safest servants to watch over it.
And yes, they wanted to bring Frodo into Mordor, but more for the torture for revenge, then like carrier.
And what if Sauron took the ring into Numenor? Why people thing it would be so hard to him to bring it over the sea? He is a shapeshifter, he brought weather conditions all over the Mordor (even when he lost his shapeshifting abilities (even without the ring - lol)),.. would it be so hard for him, to create some sort of a small storm, and carry within it himself and the ring?
I mean.. it's a ring... it's not aircraft carrier. :)
Someone on reddit (u/Wiles_) answered this by referencing Tolkien's letter number 211:
"Sauron was first defeated by a 'miracle': a direct action of God the Creator, changing the
fashion of the world, when appealed to by Manwë: see III p. 317. *Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.* That Sauron was not himself destroyed in the anger of the One is not my fault: the problem of evil, and its apparent toleration, is a permanent one for all who concern themselves with our world. The indestructibility of spirits with free wills, even by the Creator of them, is also an inevitable feature, if one either believes in their existence, or feigns it in a story."
Love the interviews
48:00 To the whole topic of us never seeing the good Haradrim or people from Rhun:
Even in the Silmarillion we get 'good easterlings', namely the House of Bór that stays true to Maedhros and protects the Eldar from Ulfang's sons with their lives!
27:04 I always thought the Nazgul were talking to the ring not Frodo. Well not the ring itself but that part of Sauron that he imparted to the ring. It was hinted at a few times in the book(s) that the ring had a mind of its own. That's why it would slip from one person to the next.
And now, Dr. Corey Olsen has fallen to the greedy hands of Amazon.
Really like this video. Thanks. I am myself a big fan of all the Tolkien writing and i am bit confuse by the rage that a lot of supposly Tolkien's fan. A lot of them only see the PJ movies, used them like a canon. The funny thing its Christopher Tolkien was not a fan of those movies. Every body have to take a big breath and relax a bit ;) They forget also that all the writing of Tolkien (except LOTR and the Hobbit) was the amazing job by his son. A lot of writing of them was remade by Christopher. He try to make something coherent from all the changing writing of his father. We all of what happens, i only want to read again the biography and the letters of Tolkien ;) (sorry for my english, i am french canadian )
Not sure Sauron leaving the ring on middle Earth before going to surrender to the Numenoreans is necessarily a plot hole. The Nazgûl were personally loyal to Sauron, not just the ring, so entrusting them with the ring would not have been a problem. And taking the ring with him could have risked it being confiscated since the Numenoreans would likely have heard of the rings of power.
This is quality stuff!
The problem with Legolas and Tauriel wasn't their bare presence, it was the fact that their characters added simply nothing to the story. Them being just "there" had no point. Plus the awful writing and dialogue. If you wanna add them, fine. But please write a proper storyline for them.
Maybe Sauron knew numenor would sink because it was in the music of the ainur at the beginning, even the part he was connected to.
My understanding is that Amazon has TV rights to the Silmarillion and at least some of the Unfinished Tales. They are planning 5 seasons -- FIVE! Disney has movie rights to LOTR, which is why they are doing an anime thing and a game. Disney can't make TV adaptations, and Amazon can't make movies. Does Amazon have TV rights to Hobbit and LOTR as well? What I read online is confusing and even contradictory.
For those who criticize the "love triangle" in the Hobbit Trilogy, there isn't really one. Sure, Thranduil counsels Tauriel against giving Legolas hope "where there is none," and Legolas tells Tauriel she is near and dear to his heart, but referencing your heart does not necessarily betray sexual desire. Honestly, the relationship between Legolas and Tauriel seems to more like that of siblings than potential lovers.
I hate Tauriel and Arwen, Tauriel for being Tauriel and Arwen for what they did to Glorfindel's character.
I’m mean, I understand what you’re saying. But from a cinematic standpoint it makes sense. I don’t agree with it either. But it’s understandable
I loved Arwen, but that is love meant for glorfindel, true
I was wondering if it might be a good idea, for anyone dramatising the early Middle Earth times, if they showed the world creation bits and Valinor as an animated story. It would set that realm apart from the ''real world'' story.
One of the guys in my wedding party worked on LOTRO
Letter #211: ...He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans...I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended".
looks like he had the one ring and was able to retrieve it.