Kirei Kotomine's Inconsistent Deaths In Fate/Stay Night
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2024
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Развлечения
Fate Route : Died because Shirou stabbed him into his heart.
UBW Route : Lancer got his revenge of Kirei.
Heaven's Feel : One of the most epic fist fight in the franchise.
Lancer: "Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary."
Yeah, I watched Heaven's Feel first because my best friend told me to watch it first if I wanted to start getting into the Fate franchise. (Yes, he wanted to troll me) Regarding the typos, you are correct. I was very tired that night sending you those questions. My bad, I apologize. Thank you very much for making this video. This subject, in particular, has always bothered me ever since I became a fan of Fate almost a year ago.
In my opinion, it's better to watch zero first because it explains the system for the grail pretty well and it gives insight into why certain things are happening in I've, heavens feel, Lord El melloi. Now it's not the best fate show, but its good for the lore
@@kingcrimsonauZero spoils a lot of twists in Stay/night and I think going into zero knowing the tragedy of what happens makes it more enjoyable. If we ever get a PROPER fate route adaptation we can finally end the endless debates on where to start the series
@@ajtallent4501yeah that's where I'm at. Anime only I do think zero works best as an introduction but should we get a new fate route then vn order will be king.
@@andrew-rn9ui Indeed. 😆
i mean starting with heavens feel isn't the incorrect watch order cause everything's a different timeline and is cannon i think
0:20
I can answer that, Heaven's feel was originally gonna be two seperate routes in its own seperate game.
Fate and UBW were already finished when HF was being written and rewritten, and one of the not so obvious changes to western consumers (because most saw ufotable Fate/Zero before DEEN or reading the VN) is that Kirei was never meant to be this scary jack of all trades magic chinese martial arts trained catholic priest. He gets a big overhaul in his abilities for what wouldve been the second game, and when it was decided that the second game was going to be condensed into a 3rd route for FSN, Kirei's buff was kept only in that route because retroctively fixing it in Fate/UBW for consistency would screw up a lot of his scenes. I believe this also includes the false black grail heart, its a HF exclusive trait.
So if you ever wondered why Kirei doesnt push Shirou's shit in Fate route with his martial skills and is just flailing grail mud at him until he dies to a knife stab that can somehow destroy grail magic, a knife attack he shouldve been able to stop, that's why.
TL;DR, Nasu rewrote Kirei for HF when it was meant to be a route in a sequel to FSN and Nasu didnt go back to the other routes to apply the new changes and is now simply a writing inconsitency that never gets completely fixed.
Finally someone who's speaking up about this. Thank you.
I know this doesn't have to do anything with the video but apparently its Shiki's birthday today, I've been counting some shiki faces and I've got 7 in total, anyone I missed?
-Shiki Ryougi
-shiki ryougi
-SHIKI RYOUGI
-Shiki Tohno
-Void Shiki
-Ayaka sajyou
-Fake Ayaka Sajyou
-Ayako Mitsuri
SHIKI Tohno
Shiki Nanaya ( the concept)
Shiki Nanaya (resurrected through the night of Wallachia)
Fake Shiki
Dino Shiki
Remake Shiki
Lio Shirazumi
Panda Shiki
Non- Existent Shiki *cough* tsukihime anime *cough*
The way you were singing “patreo-o-on 😩” was squeaky clean
Okay, I got the gist before I saw this but now you have put it into more context
That “how do you even do that” killed me😂
THANK YOU! I’ve been waiting for someone to talk about this. As someone who read the VN and Watched the Fate series in broadcast order. That had always bothered me. A lot of Kirei’s deaths are related to his heart or chest area. But after his revival in Fate/Zero. I always felt a lot of his injuries should have infected him…at least not as bad. It should be as simple as Kirei going, “Hey A.M. or all the worlds Evils! Help your boy out! Get my reboot card!”
Also, I just know Tokiomi was creaming his pants when he saw Kirei die in the Fate route. You know he was acting like Vox during the Hazbin Hotel season 1 finale. How many of you get that reference? Tokoimi: YES! AH, I AM SO F***ING HARD RIGHT NOW!
Easy to see why this might confuse people who only watched the anime adaptions.
The vn does lay out a lot more details that make everything a lot clearer.
It's a shame but understandable why the adaptation can't cover everything.
yorokobe shounen!
Would you consider doing a video about pre/post Grail Mud Kirei vs Soujuurou Shizuki from Mahoutsukai no Yoru?
I might give it to kirei even if it's just pure cqc. Though I think a more interesting fight would be Kirei vs Araya vs Kuzuki and yes magic is included
I’m curious where is that piece of dialogue from at 18:54? Heavens feel? I don’t remember that in the movie but I definitely feel like I’ve seen it before, was in only in the vn?
Never in my lifetime would I have expected the most thoughtful, unbiased commentary on events within the Nasuverse to come from a black man. The racist within me has died its final death. You keep cooking, my brother.
please do clairvoyance like what is it exactly
If it was anyone but Lancer, i wonder if kirei would have gotta further along in ubw. Or would have had to fight that servant. Would be interesting to see
So my father and I just finished watch the Heavens Feel movies for the first time, we watch Zero & UBW before this and my father really loved them, except for the ending of the last movie;
Could you explain how Shirou survived/how illia destroyed Angra Mainyu as it really isn’t explained in the movie.
Or point me in the direction of a previous video if you already have one on this topic.
Thank you
Shirou did not survive. His body was destroyed, however Illya used a portion of the Heaven's Feel sorcery to "materialize" his soul which is found by Rider. Sakura and Rin then find a famous puppet master and buy a puppet to house his soul. Sakura uses her magical energy to keep it in the puppet, the puppet being changed by his soul to be flesh and blood so long as he is in it.
Angra isn't destroyed by Illya. Illya closes the ritual but Angra is still in the grail and there would be another grail war in 60 years. Rin and other mages from the Clock Tower dismantle the ritual I think ten years? After F/SN.
It’s rather simple, Illya saved Shirou by using the Third Sorcery “Heavens Feel”, in the Nasuverse Sorcery/True Magic doesn’t follow the same rules as Magic/Magecraft, it can do impossible things such as Time Travel, Bringing the dead back to life, Travel between alternate Universes etc. the Third Sorcery is Heavens Feel, one application of it is the “Materialisation of the Soul” which Illya uses on Shirou at the end of the Heavens Feel Route
After the Holy Grail War, Rin and Sakura obtain a Puppet Body for Shirou’s Soul to inhabit from Touko Aozaki, a Magus who specialises in them
I have a question
It's about counter force and can it see the future how did it is it omnipresent?
Hey I wanna ask something if emiya can alter the properties of stuff around him how come he never uses stuff like chemistry even if shirous bad at it and cant do it archer should have had an infinite amount of time and should be capable of doing stuff like from full metal alchemist heck alchemy existists in fate and he doesn't persue it and since he can trace stuff even if it takes more energy than a sword shouldn't he be able to project and use any element of the periodic table including toxic or radioactive stuff at the vary least he can do a last ditch bombing against opponents he cant best hoping that radiation ends them much better than excalibur image am I right.
Emiya's natural magic he's really good at it is swords or stuff related to it to an extent that most things a normal mage would consider extremely basic are things he can't do.
E.g After Shirou/Saber's first fight with Lancer Rin is surprised that Shirou can't just fix all the damages to his house with magecraft. Though it should be noted that Rin probably has super high standards for these things.
He's very good at that specific thing that is recording swords/basic weapons into UBW and replicating them and things relating to that, the further away from that the less naturally good he is at.
E.g A shield should cost more for him trace than a sword.
He can't just trace say plasma for example. It has to be hold the concept of sword and have plasma in it that he auto copies into UBW as soon as he sees it and from there maybe he can try to experiment with doing adjustments to it.
@@ARandomGuy24but what is a sword exactly he if a sword is just a sharp object that is used for combat for whatever purpose than isn't a stick mad eout of I don't know explosives a sword like how is exacaliber a sword its made of stuff humans don't have and it shoots lasers but it's still a sword
How do you think gilgamesh fought his opponents before he met enkidu?
Not anything related to Stay Night
I was rewatching Babylonia and when they encountered Quetzalcoatl I wondered why she wasn’t a pseudo servant. Maybe she is and it just wasn’t brought up in the story, but she’s a god, so a servant container shouldn’t be able to hold her divine spirit right?
She's a type of divided spirit. Basically since all the Mesoamerican gods are alien bacteria that infect humans hosts what is actually summoned is one of the human host bodies. So she's basically a pre-built pseudo-servant in a way but without any of the loss to her divinity that usually accompanies such a thing.
Attempt 108 of asking you to do a video on white wolf's world of darkness
i lived dont worry
emiya shirou prisma illya vs archer emiya?
Archer just wins, Miyu's Shirou could only manage ubw due to her powers.
Archer should just clear really
Only one that stands a chance is Miyu shirou
......
*fun fact, unlimited blade works is shit cause no saber, no Illya, no rider, actually only caster is present on this route* , shirou has no development other than "even if I'm wrong does not mean I'm wrong" while in the fate route at least he says *"No, I don't care about all the children that died and suffer infinite torture in this room, and I will not use the grail to help them, I rather should kill them because a hero can only lesser the burdens that are already present, and I don't take back because my life has no regret, but kirei I came here to confess because I stayed nighted saber"* so yeah UBW cringe and archer for some reason denies the purpose of shirou having no regrets
Heaven's feel in the VN has 4 useless days after day 10 and you lose your arm so sometimes it feels like that is more tutorial route than fate route is, fate route is the best no discussion except if you bring in the table the day 15 and 16 from heaven's feel but day 14 and 15 is just the next days in the best of the VN
Dude what are you talking about? Shirou never says he doesn't care about the children are you out of your mind?
Do you understand what the words you're saying mean? The grail can't help anyone. It's corrupted. It's a weapon.
Illya is in UBW 🤦♂️, fate is so fucking bad writing wise outside the romance it's like a different person wrote it. Kirei loses to Shirou for nonsense reasons, he's sexist towards saber ONLY, which is infuriating to no end, and this trait is COMPLETELY GONE the next 2 routes. Not even remotely mentioned even in Sakura route where it still makes sense, but no.
Bro you don't understand fate stay night I'm afraid.
@@BygoneTbro really tried shitting on Heavens feel lol, the same route of two along with UBW that mainly challenges Shirou’s cringe ideal and by the end of it choose to actually be selfish for once rather than him bulldozing through all of it all. Same route that also ties pretty much all the loose ends set up in F/Zero so that’s a bonus for me(Zouken mainly since it’s weird he isn’t present in the other two)
@@themage1016 I don't know if bro is me or him, I think it's him, but Fate route also "challenges" the "cringe" ideal. It's not cringe at all, it's what everyone should strive to uphold, if only Shirou wasn't so batshit insane and psycho about it.
Fate is actually the only route where Shirou is capable of reasoning like a normal person, the love between Saber and Shirou saves them both as they come to see that redoing the selection and erasing the suffering and histories of their respective lives is wrong, at least as far as they are concerned. Saber overcomes it and Shirou does too.
HF has Shirou endure the consequences of keeping sakura alive, it is most definitely not a happy ending all around. Let me repeat it. All around.
Irrespective of HF, Zouken becomes piss weak and Sakura becomes the head of the Matou household, she makes it out of the dark tunnel eventually. The old man is too far gone mentally to even care what's happening, unless his war is basically served to him on a platter, as it is in HF. In fact he even forgot the reason for why he even takes part at all, which isn't immortality at all and only remembers as he dies and sees Justeaze.
While in general Fate chastises Shirou's idealism, literally the point of the routes, he only makes it out if he confronts them and comes out the strongest in UBW where he goes all in on them, properly understanding them through Archer.
UBW is peak fate. HF has the more epic ending for sure, and by far the most gut wrenching moments, but the writing is iffy at times.
UBW has no such issues. It is the best route, with romance, actually offering a Shirou solution to the problem instead of imo downgrading him as in HF, because selfishness isn't the cure to Shirou. It's understanding.
His childish and automaton understanding and living the ideal of Kiritsugu is what leads him to Alaya.
With Rin, he becomes a far better human than most. Not shying away from his inner purpose, but not being consumed by it as Kiritsugu was.
@@BygoneT His ideals are cringe cuz the way Shirou does it IS cringe. Tbh I have nothing against Fate route, it’s just happen to be that of a vanilla for me, the “MCs get to win big route” of every story.
The reason why I favor HF to be the main “sequel” to Zero is simple, it ties a lot of loose ends from the latter. Saber and Gil aside most of the major players and their actions in that conflict were heavily present in HF, people like Zouken, Kirei, Illya, Sakura, Rin and Shirou all have their moments here and tackle the problems that were the result of Zero. My pet peeve with the other routes would always be on how Sakura and her story gets shafted hard(rape victim with tormentors either potentially still or are alive), Zouken not being present(seeing as it wasn’t said that he died, it is likely he’s still running around), Kirei got shafted in UBW, we didnt see much of the Illya and Kiritsugu story in UBW and didn’t really get much closure(unlike the other two), Rin and Sakura’s story that was set up in Zero was one of the main focus of HF’s story.
On the selfishness part let me explain. In UBW it is an interesting telling of the Character vs Self story but imo I favor HF more in that Shirou rejecting Kiritsugu’s ideals and actually wanting to live for HIMSELF AND HIS OWN IDEALS and not Kiritsugu’s ideals. I am not saying this is entirely a good thing but imo it is interesting cuz Shirou here is “betraying” what make him be “Shirou Emiya” to say. Arguably all routes tackle the Shirou must stop seeing himself as a living weapon to achieve happiness but imo it is in HF where this theme is shown more after all the two endings themselves are pretty much just a question if Shirou wants to continue as a living weapon and sacrifice himself or live as a human being, as himself to say.
@@themage1016 Idk dude I feel like we aren't talking about the same things at times.
If any the win everything route is UBW Sunny Days where Shirou gets to use the bone of his sword with Saber and Rin whenever he wants even after the holy grail war. It's such a devastating good ending it cuts down screentime by 20 minutes and VN time by almost 2 hours.
Fate has him meet the love of his life, which has Saber accept and develop her kind of womanhood, become a human as she was before picking the sword is the stone, Shirou overcomes his trauma and is free to pursue life as an actual human being, AND THEN THEY FUCKING SEPARATE FOREVER 💀💀💀
Or until the true ending.
You must not know about Hollow Atataxia.
Zouken becomes an almost literal insect, barely alive and barely capable of shows of intellect. Sakura becomes the head of the Matou household, if UBW comes first in the timeline, she becomes the caretaker of the entire family, and boy. Boy. She does whatever the FUCK she wants in HER house.
If Fate comes first, Shinji is just dead to his own stupidity and meeting Illya.
HF has a separate continuity because they cannot show Shirou around. They mind their own business, away from mages and have sex like animals because sakura has like 146 trillion mana iirc, so she sheds it off and avoids death by transferring it.
Sakura is not the kind of person to take revenge, as shown by the numerous adaptations, except when Shinji calls it upon himself. You gotta understand people like her exist in real life as well. Yeah, I wanna see Shinji blow the fuck up cause he is shit accidentally given human form.
However Sakura too is a rapist and a cannibal (Last bad ending in VN) so I have a hard time forgiving her entirely, especially when I didn't read realtà nua first, I had the original.
Realtà nua wants us to believe Sakura is only wounded and furious, but not a rapist so that was removed entirely, unfortunately for me the betrayal I felt when I discovered that bad ending in the original will never go away, try as I might to redeem her in my eyes. Which I go back to every now and then, that is still too much.
Gilgamesh appears only to get deleted in HF. It's his weakest appearance. Idk what you're on about.
Kirei's comeuppance comes thematically deeper in Fate, getting killed by the Azoth dagger he used to kill her father, and gave Rin just to make her cry, in a joint effort by the man who overcame Kiritsugu's ideal through love, which Kirei was extremely bothered to discover to be a "good" person unlike what he thought (Which is why he's so annoyed at the end of 0 and keeps repeating to himself Kiritsugu must be like him) plus respecting Saber as a person and knight.
Yeah, I sure love and prefer his death in HF, which is actually respectful of him unlike that abominable ending in Fate where he just gets stabbed in the heart for no reason. Yeah yeah, I know there are justifications but I refuse them.
But Kirei is relevant the most in Fate and HF, whereas in UBW is is steamrolled by gigachad Shirou, Rin and Lancer. In Fate he is the main string puller, while in HF be is a supporting character. They're equally important.
UBW is the most realistic death, so to speak. It is informed by his death in Fate, where just like Rin, he fails at the most important part, with him doing so because of his own hubris. In fate it sucks though.
No single route is meant to say everything but UBW is the most complete by far, I could talk about it with the specific points because I love fate but this is a long enough comment already.
To end, in both HF and Fate he "refuses" the ideal but in HF it's framed as an entirely bad thing. Because he did the opposite. He sacrificed the lives of at least 600 people, more than those that died when Emiya Shirou was born during the fire, and to protect Sakura, which is what Kiritsugu does in his inner world until the grail is revealed to be a genocide machine.
In fact in the good ending it says he will bear the cross of his sins for the rest of his life. The GOOD ending. Not normal or bad.