I find characters like Cartagia really unsettling, because you never know what might set them off. They can go from friendly to homicidal and back again with no stops in between.
Well, Cartagia noticed that this clown heard the part of getting away from Centauri Prime therefore the could slip the information. It's not a good thing he killed him for it, but at least it was logical conclusion.
I was reminded of Joe Pesci's character Tommy, the one who was borderline psychotic--the scene in the restaurant when he interrogates Henry "Why do you think I'm funny?" had me and a lot of others in the theater wondering if he was going to kill Henry at any moment.
My understanding was that the budget of B5 consisted of a shoebox filled with dust, mites, a ball of loose string, and a note that read, "if it's not bolted down, steal it and film it." Hence the reuse of existing sets and props.
"Excuse me, Majesty, I have to go check on some arrangements." Specifically, to get that poison needle from the head spy. (The one who later said, "It is *_as if_* his hearts just stopped beating.")
@@snapdragon9300 Bester was a monster in his own right... but he was to a degree predictable. Cartagia was simply completely bonkers. Bester wouldn't kill you if it wasn't important to him. Cartagia would torture you to death on a whim - not even for entertainment, just because he felt like it in the moment. He probably would even go on and execute the torturer, because he later learned he would need you...
I suspect that this was deliberate, since there is reason to believe that the creators of "Babylon 5" borrowed elements from ancient Rome for their concept of the Centauri empire.
I remember when I first watched this scene. Having gone through the arc of Cartagia's madness up until this point, I knew as soon as I layed eyes on the Court Jester that he was totally toast.
Syphilis is said to not have arrived in Europe until 1494 from the Americas. The reason I have heard for Caligula's madness was that they used lead to sweeten their wine and he drank alot of it. Lead poisoning can make you act in interesting ways.
The origin of syphilis is disputed. There are those that think the ancient Greek Hippocrates described the third stage of the disease. Cases identified as leprosy may have actually been syphilis. Then there is a third hypothesis that the disease existed on both continents prior to Columbus and had been carried by humans that had crossed the Bering sea when it was covered by ice. The disease had mutated over time with the American strain being very nasty to Europeans and others who did not have thousands to tens of thousands of years of acclimatization to it.
@@toomanyaccounts Even if you consider rulers for other shows like Joffrey, Cartagia is a lot more frightening. Joffrey is known to be almost always vicious whenever his emotions is not overwrite by anything else. But he is essentially a cowardly brat with too much borrowed power, no self-control and agency of his own. Which makes him predictable, and he is someone you hate, but not so much afraid of. Cartagia is powerful and knows how to use those power, he is controlled in his own lunacy and have agency of his own. You never know what he will truly do unless he reveal it and he is no coward, since he is quite willing to get physical when his mind shift to the right conditions.
@@nomisunrider6472 .. Oh, really? Where is this "real" character? Do you know of anyone around you (family, friend, etc) like Cartagia? Is any part of our government like that on Centauri? While Bernie Sanders' socialism/communism has occasionally led to repressive governments like that on Centauri, most want nothing to do with it.
@@toomanyaccounts .. Agenda? Rational? Guy, all three are fictitious, characters in a television show. The only agenda is that of the show's creators/writers. That is what you should be watching and questioning.
Reminds me of Bal des Ardents (Ball of the Burning Men) when the French King was suffering a bout of madness. Granted he didn't slaughter his jester, but his party plans ended up with 4 friends of his burned to death.
That had nothing to do with madness except to the extent it is a bad idea to dance around in flamable costumes with illumination provided by open flames.
@@cm5913 Nero was someone who still had one foot in reality. Caligula was an absolute madman. He once marched the army down to the beach to give battle to the god Neptune. When Neptune failed to show, Caligula declared himself victorious and had the legionarys collect seashells as the plunder of conquest.
Probably hoped to direct Cartagia's paranoia to kill most of the royal house & prominent nobles. Then when Cartagia's insanity and wretched strategy was apparent, assassinate Cartagia. Due to the death or discrediting of most of the Royal House, the people would turn to the man who saved the Republic and Emperor Reefa ascends the throne. A risky strategy, but an usurper does not become Emperor by playing it safe. Ironically, this is the path that Londo had to follow once he killed Reefa.
Reefa and his buddies had no idea what they were getting into. There were those who thought they could control Caligula too. Don't forget, the German Conservatives thought they'd control Hitler too... right up until a bunch of them were murdered during the Night of the Long Knives.
Cartaga Always gave me the cills you dont know if he is going too be kind ore murderus he does both whit the same ease and talk about killing å whole world in the same tone you would ask someone too by you a bottel of wine.
Traditionally, poking fun at one's employer is part of the job of a court jester: if the ruler is a good ruler, it's all in good fun; if the ruler is a bad ruler, it provides a release valve for any discontent there may be, while simultaneously framing such discontent as a "foolish" notion. Occasionally, the ruler doesn't get the joke. Centauri love opera; this is basically the plot of Rigoletto.
I find it hard to believe that any society that becomes as advanced as the Centauri would survive under such a dangerous and primitive government. Did the Emperor really have the power of life and death 24/7 over every citizen?
Yes and No. The Centauri are living in the past, survived a genocidal war with another race on their homeplanet. They are few, and very proud of their tradition. Cartagia became Emperor because of the shadows involvement. The Emperor before him was very moderate, and even wanted to offical appolagize to the narn, for what they have done.
The Centaurum and noble houses technically have the ability to check the emperors power, but Cartagia, the Shadows, and likely the Drakh (sp) would make the opposition vanish into the night. They touch one this in an episode where they mention that 14 members of the Centaurum voted against Cartagia and that they all vanished shortly thereafter. I'm sure someone would have gotten around to poisoning Cartagia earlier if the Shadows had not intervened on his behalf.
@Droxy 56 Exactly...and we see what Cartagia's fate was...that is how that society balances itself out. from threats like him. Good Centauri Emperors live long, healthy lives...bad ones? have unfortunatate accidents..
All the gods, immortals, elements and whatever else that lay between the heavens, earth and bellow; why would someone watch that shite? Its not even scary, its just focused on gross factor. If they Babadooked every season THEN they could call it a horror story. ... barring my opinion on the reference, what do you mean?
+iona2225 the tv show American Horror story an anthology wear each season is a separate story of its own in season 3 freak show where he's a spoiled rich kid in a grown mans body also a complete psychopath like his Majesty right here
+Howyaduing ah, I see. Meh, like the regent said, 'cant hide under the royal tree if its only a bush'. I think hes more like the roman emperors then anything, like Nero except far more relgiously focused or just a way to focus his insanity. Maybe thats just the Centauri in general. Except with the tenticle things haha
wow the cartagia was insane he killed the jester just for looking at him. also my first thought wene looking at this scene was this was back wene Centauri Prime was still intact and not a lifeless rock .the other worlds that did this faced no reproduction's whatsoever. they killed a planet with no consequences. at the very lest wene it was reveled that it was not the Centauri ho were doing the raids than other worlds should have helped them rebuild. that never quit made sense to me.
Wortham Krimmer is fantastically insane as Cartagia. He did an awesome job.
yup, menacing madness
You know he left acting and became a lawyer
He would make a great Caligula.
@@kurenwirsun2478 I didnt know that! Good piece of information :)
@@HappyCatholicDane Cartaglia is inspired by Caligula...
I find characters like Cartagia really unsettling, because you never know what might set them off. They can go from friendly to homicidal and back again with no stops in between.
Well, Cartagia noticed that this clown heard the part of getting away from Centauri Prime therefore the could slip the information. It's not a good thing he killed him for it, but at least it was logical conclusion.
I'm pretty sure Cartagia killed the jester for making fun of him. Otherwise, his "humor is such a subjective thing" line doesn't make any sense.
Which makes you wonder how Lord Refa and his associates planned to "control" Cartagia (i.e., the reason they installed him).
They likely had no idea that Cartagia was such an utter lunatic. His insanity was probably a well kept secret amongst the royal family prior to that.
I was reminded of Joe Pesci's character Tommy, the one who was borderline psychotic--the scene in the restaurant when he interrogates Henry "Why do you think I'm funny?" had me and a lot of others in the theater wondering if he was going to kill Henry at any moment.
"It's almost IDENTICAL to the throne room back home!"
Well done with the lampshading, JSM!
lack of budget I suppose LOL
My understanding was that the budget of B5 consisted of a shoebox filled with dust, mites, a ball of loose string, and a note that read, "if it's not bolted down, steal it and film it." Hence the reuse of existing sets and props.
@@Cronocke Basically yeah. And JMS was always about not insulting the audience. So here he just gives a quick wink to the audience as he does it.
@@OldUKAds It helped to that the lighting is different, as they are now on Narn Prime.
I love that its his character who says it. Hes so crazy he would see something like that when others dont.
"Excuse me, Majesty, I have to go check on some arrangements."
Specifically, to get that poison needle from the head spy. (The one who later said, "It is *_as if_* his hearts just stopped beating.")
Mollari asking, "Will you excuse me? I have to check on some arrangements," would give any Centauri with any sense, reason enough to GTFO.
Of all the terrifying characters in any media, Cartagia is easily in the top 5.
All of his episodes were deeply unsettling.
Bester was mine.
@@snapdragon9300 Bester was a monster in his own right... but he was to a degree predictable. Cartagia was simply completely bonkers. Bester wouldn't kill you if it wasn't important to him. Cartagia would torture you to death on a whim - not even for entertainment, just because he felt like it in the moment.
He probably would even go on and execute the torturer, because he later learned he would need you...
Ramsey Snow and Geoffrey Baratheon come to mind.
Someone told Krimmer on his first day on set "he's like Caligula, but from space".
Cartagia has Caligula-like quality to him.
Many name similarities too
YEah, plus a bit of a Nero-touch to boot.
@@shadekerensky3691 *drum snare*
I suspect that this was deliberate, since there is reason to believe that the creators of "Babylon 5" borrowed elements from ancient Rome for their concept of the Centauri empire.
@@OreadNYC Agreed.
I remember when I first watched this scene. Having gone through the arc of Cartagia's madness up until this point, I knew as soon as I layed eyes on the Court Jester that he was totally toast.
With a skill such as yours, you would do well with the progressive administration.
To be fair to Cartagia, I probably would have had the jester shot too.
A mime is a terrible thing to waste.
@@breacat Actually he's the first one you want to waste.
Yeah, this scene really shows that Cartagia is too far gone to reason with.
Caligula.
Syphilis is said to not have arrived in Europe until 1494 from the Americas. The reason I have heard for Caligula's madness was that they used lead to sweeten their wine and he drank alot of it. Lead poisoning can make you act in interesting ways.
The origin of syphilis is disputed. There are those that think the ancient Greek Hippocrates described the third stage of the disease. Cases identified as leprosy may have actually been syphilis. Then there is a third hypothesis that the disease existed on both continents prior to Columbus and had been carried by humans that had crossed the Bering sea when it was covered by ice. The disease had mutated over time with the American strain being very nasty to Europeans and others who did not have thousands to tens of thousands of years of acclimatization to it.
The actor who played Cartagia is a genius. He managed to convey both friendliness and utter insanity at the same time.
cartage is the kind of person you have to be very wary of friend or foe to him was always based on how he felt at a given minute.
I love the guards. They look like pretty boys in contrast to the narns but they have this cold menace to them.
They did get that great scene where a couple of them machine gunned a pair of shadows. "I will have to get that painted over, I suppose."
I read a comment on TV Tropes that Cartagia, in a way, was even more frightening than even the Shadows and the Vorlons.
It's cause as terrifying as they are, the Shadows and Vorlons are ultimately a sci fi threat. Men and women like Cartagia are real.
@@nomisunrider6472 the Vorlons and the Shadows have an agenda and are rational about going about it. Cartagia was a lunatic.
@@toomanyaccounts Even if you consider rulers for other shows like Joffrey, Cartagia is a lot more frightening. Joffrey is known to be almost always vicious whenever his emotions is not overwrite by anything else. But he is essentially a cowardly brat with too much borrowed power, no self-control and agency of his own. Which makes him predictable, and he is someone you hate, but not so much afraid of. Cartagia is powerful and knows how to use those power, he is controlled in his own lunacy and have agency of his own. You never know what he will truly do unless he reveal it and he is no coward, since he is quite willing to get physical when his mind shift to the right conditions.
@@nomisunrider6472 .. Oh, really? Where is this "real" character? Do you know of anyone around you (family, friend, etc) like Cartagia? Is any part of our government like that on Centauri? While Bernie Sanders' socialism/communism has occasionally led to repressive governments like that on Centauri, most want nothing to do with it.
@@toomanyaccounts .. Agenda? Rational? Guy, all three are fictitious, characters in a television show. The only agenda is that of the show's creators/writers. That is what you should be watching and questioning.
He's Babylon 5's version of The Joker.
"Did I ever tell you how I got these scars?"
When Cartagia chooses to cancel a comedian... He doesn't take to social media
Funny. I thought that was a perfect analogy to progressives on any media.
1:10 The jester knew he'd crossed a fatal line there...
Wow, I think I worked for that guy once.
You could! The actor was also a practicing lawyer
I worked for his elderly uncle.
Ranks right up there with Patrick Bateman asking "Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?"
Reminds me of Bal des Ardents (Ball of the Burning Men) when the French King was suffering a bout of madness. Granted he didn't slaughter his jester, but his party plans ended up with 4 friends of his burned to death.
That had nothing to do with madness except to the extent it is a bad idea to dance around in flamable costumes with illumination provided by open flames.
Cartagia is Caligula (insane Roman emperor 37AD to 41AD)
That poor jester, he got in wayyy over his head.
He was a Not Ready For Prime Time Player
The Jester Clown'd around...and found out.
And got it in the head
Funny thing, though. Lando was also a shadow influence the Volans wished to destroy meaning whatever flagship he was on would likely get destroyed
1:13 Mr Bean as a Centauri, people.
Kidding of course, but that was my reaction upon first seeing this episode.
"Great Maker help us all, he is mad!"
Reminds me of John Hurt's Caligula...
I'm pretty sure that was Roddy McDowall.
@@Robert_Douglass In I Claudius, was deffo John Hurt
Love the 'I, Claudius' reference.
spoiled brat ruler + egomaniacal sense of importance + too much wine = not good!
You should see when eh hops on Twitter.
Unless that whine is poisoned by one bad ass old lady trying to protect her niece.
Insult comics are probably not a thing in Centauri culture.
Cartargia was brilliantly twisted.
And should have been "twisted brilliantly".
the background characters do an excellent job of being afraid so it really illustrates the fear
Why do I get the feeling his character took some inspiration from Nero.
I constantly got a french Feeling from the whole centauri republic. But I guess the Inspiration was the Roman Imperium.
It was Caligula, not Nero. Caligula was the totally mad emperor.
@@martinrobo123 True, but they both had a massive god complex. And Nero had more of the psychopathic traits he demonstrates when executing the jester
There have many leaders like this including a Chinese one that kept killing his scouts when they gave him bad news.
@@cm5913 Nero was someone who still had one foot in reality. Caligula was an absolute madman. He once marched the army down to the beach to give battle to the god Neptune. When Neptune failed to show, Caligula declared himself victorious and had the legionarys collect seashells as the plunder of conquest.
I wonder how Reefa planned to control this guy.
He didn't think that far ahead.
Probably hoped to direct Cartagia's paranoia to kill most of the royal house & prominent nobles. Then when Cartagia's insanity and wretched strategy was apparent, assassinate Cartagia. Due to the death or discrediting of most of the Royal House, the people would turn to the man who saved the Republic and Emperor Reefa ascends the throne. A risky strategy, but an usurper does not become Emperor by playing it safe. Ironically, this is the path that Londo had to follow once he killed Reefa.
Reefa and his buddies had no idea what they were getting into. There were those who thought they could control Caligula too. Don't forget, the German Conservatives thought they'd control Hitler too... right up until a bunch of them were murdered during the Night of the Long Knives.
@@Carandini Much like Joseph took out his opposition.
Joffrey Baratheon approves.
Cartaga Always gave me the cills you dont know if he is going too be kind ore murderus he does both whit the same ease and talk about killing å whole world in the same tone you would ask someone too by you a bottel of wine.
"Zooty! Zoot zoot!"
Reminds me of Caligula and Elagabalus lol.
Wortham Krimmer is a lawyer now. I guess, playing the absolute unpredictable psycho had some benefits.
He is what happens when someone has absolute power, somwhat like the usa police.
Had a step mother like this...
As in hair style or temperament?
A mime is a terrible thing to waste... But is it the same for a jester?
That's what happens when you think you're safe on the Devil's team.
I'm not condoning the murder of clowns but why on earth would be take a chance like that.
Traditionally, poking fun at one's employer is part of the job of a court jester: if the ruler is a good ruler, it's all in good fun; if the ruler is a bad ruler, it provides a release valve for any discontent there may be, while simultaneously framing such discontent as a "foolish" notion.
Occasionally, the ruler doesn't get the joke. Centauri love opera; this is basically the plot of Rigoletto.
Clowns are disturbing and
evil and should be wiped out.
@@nashburnette but that wasn't a clown, that was a fool. Big difference.
@@stephenwood6663 In this case he was the canary in the coal mine warning everyone else as to what a mad-man Cartagia really is.
That poor jester. :'( He deserved a better fate than Cartagia gave him.
Cartagia = Caligula = Kefka
Oh my god in 2023 and here we are comedy is subjective and fatal to those being un subbed
The joker before the 2019 joker
I find it hard to believe that any society that becomes as advanced as the Centauri would survive under such a dangerous and primitive government. Did the Emperor really have the power of life and death 24/7 over every citizen?
Yes and No. The Centauri are living in the past, survived a genocidal war with another race on their homeplanet. They are few, and very proud of their tradition. Cartagia became Emperor because of the shadows involvement. The Emperor before him was very moderate, and even wanted to offical appolagize to the narn, for what they have done.
The Centaurum and noble houses technically have the ability to check the emperors power, but Cartagia, the Shadows, and likely the Drakh (sp) would make the opposition vanish into the night. They touch one this in an episode where they mention that 14 members of the Centaurum voted against Cartagia and that they all vanished shortly thereafter. I'm sure someone would have gotten around to poisoning Cartagia earlier if the Shadows had not intervened on his behalf.
Why not? As long as you have loyal soldiers to kill dissenters I don't see why tyranny is impossible at any level of advancement.
@Droxy 56 Exactly...and we see what Cartagia's fate was...that is how that society balances itself out. from threats like him. Good Centauri Emperors live long, healthy lives...bad ones? have unfortunatate accidents..
@Droxy 56 The crazed emperor assumed the Shadows would be that giant loaded gun trained on his people and the galaxy 24/7.
He is more like Caligula and Nero put together.
He reminds me of Dandy from American Horror Story FreakShow
All the gods, immortals, elements and whatever else that lay between the heavens, earth and bellow; why would someone watch that shite? Its not even scary, its just focused on gross factor. If they Babadooked every season THEN they could call it a horror story.
... barring my opinion on the reference, what do you mean?
+iona2225 the tv show American Horror story an anthology wear each season is a separate story of its own in season 3 freak show where he's a spoiled rich kid in a grown mans body also a complete psychopath like his Majesty right here
+Howyaduing ah, I see. Meh, like the regent said, 'cant hide under the royal tree if its only a bush'. I think hes more like the roman emperors then anything, like Nero except far more relgiously focused or just a way to focus his insanity. Maybe thats just the Centauri in general. Except with the tenticle things haha
Now I'm thinking he's more like Joffrey from Game of Thrones
I think is like D'Ken or Vulcan of the Shi'ar.
2:16.......this geezer has to go, and soon
Geezer?
Heavily based on Caligula perhaps.
sadly....this is my favorite scene of cartagia
Today's Lesson: Do not mock your supreme leader ;) lol
At least not if he is totally crazy too.
Costuming for these Centauri is ridiculous.
To be fair, the Jester sucked.
wow the cartagia was insane he killed the jester just for looking at him. also my first thought wene looking at this scene was this was back wene Centauri Prime was still intact and not a lifeless rock .the other worlds that did this faced no reproduction's whatsoever. they killed a planet with no consequences. at the very lest wene it was reveled that it was not the Centauri ho were doing the raids than other worlds should have helped them rebuild. that never quit made sense to me.
Well took me a while to realize, the jester was making fun of him..
@@georgelionon9050Thank you. I had wondered what wrong he had committed.
The number of likes is 666. It suits Cartagia
1:10 the temperature in that room dropped instantly.
Spoiler;The Jester actually _was_ mute