I think Luca is one of those films that can be read as queer. It’s not necessarily gay, but many classic literature and films are read with a queer lens, and the source isn’t specifically about lgbt. So…why not?
i think its up for interpretation. the creator said it wasnt gay, but he also said it wasn't straight. i feel like it isn't technically queer-baiting, but more of a movie that can have many interpretations to what the actual meaning is.
@@josephinamueller3795 Yes I 100% agree, the only sad thing is that with so little representation (and sometimes just awful representation) this movie easily could've had gay representation and done it well. But at least it's neither ig.
@@josephinamueller3795 I agree. The same Can be said in English classes; in Gatsby, Nick can be read as gay (he’s not stereotypically gay but there’s basically a whole treasure trove of analysis). So…if we can analyze literature like that, why not film?
Loki’s genderfluidity is much better in the comics like I remember seeing panels where they can’t shapeshift and they can only be their true self and they switch between different forms/genders which I think is really cool I wish that MCU would do that
I 100% agree the comics handled the gender fluidity of Loki much better. If we are going to be honest and look at the Noris source text they did a better job than Disney. Who ever came up with the Sleipnir story line I give them credit. Oh Noris you were some creative souls.
and in several comics she just shifts between man and women whenever she wants and its not like for plot reasons. Just however she feels in the moment and wants to be seen :)
Lokis “sex:fluid" literally pisses me off so much because he is ACTUALLY genderfluid in some of the comics and also (LOKI SPOILERS) in the void he’s like y’all ever seen a girl loki talking about sylvie implying that loki is never female
i think it was implying that he doesn't have any predetermined sex, and how it matches with their fluid gender identity, but since neither gender or gender identity are mentioned, i see what you mean. also I'm pretty sure there are *some* legal documents in some countries that list sex instead of gender, so the tva might be like that too but idk
I’ve really been enjoying Loki but that “bisexual” reveal just made me roll my eyes. It just kinda bothers me that people are acting like Marvel/Disney is changing the world for having ONE line that like you said can easily be cut out for homophobic countries. edit: I do like that Loki is bisexual, I just wish they would’ve shown us rather than telling us
@@everyonegetselfears1444 I just realized my original comment made it seem like I didn’t like the reveal. I do like that Loki is bisexual but I hate that people are giving Disney more credit than they deserve. I feel like just saying it is doing the bare minimum. They could’ve maybe shown Loki kissing another guy, etc.
It made me incredibly happy to see that he's bisexual and that Disney put it in, but I can't help but agree. It's a one liner that can easily be taken out for other countries.
One of the biggest reasons people actually thought Luca was gay wasn’t even just because of the friendship between the two boys (SPOILER WARNING FOR ANYONE WHO HASN’T SEEN IT) but because people saw the two boys who were sea monsters and were ostracized by society for it and had to keep their identity a secret because they feared people wouldn’t accept them as an allegory for queerness.
@@sugarzblossom8168 Its mixture of multiple things. The gay allegory wouldnt really be able to work if they were not both the same gender. Thats kinda obvious. Not just acceptance, but also "coming out of the water" as in "coming out". Also running away from home when not being accepted, which is a common gay experience (40% of homeless youth are LGBT+ and 80% of them claim they either were kicked due to identity or ran away due to not being accepted) also color design, the blues and purples being the mlm flag. That one again was probably not intentional but any interpretations are correct if they can be argued
Honestly I feel like Luca shouldn’t count to be queer baiting (I know it wasn’t put on the list) because before people watched it there was nothing that made it seem to have lgbtq representation but after watching the film I feel like it was a metaphor for coming out and acceptance. I feel just Luca and Alberto’s relationship was just a small detail (I’m not saying they’re dating I know they’re just friends) I also know that the director said that he didn’t intend to. (Side note: not sure if Disney was aware but for the song they played for the credits ‘Cittá Vuota’ that is a love song about there love who is far away from them) Sorry to write a summary I didn’t intend to make this sound rude if it did.keep in mind anyone can have their own opinion on how they interpret the movie and remember that this is just my opinion. Other than that I loved the video and I’d say your ratings are understandable
I honestly clicked out of vide on that part, I get mad every time people reduce the movie to that and ignore the entire rest of the movie that is so clearly queer, also saying that the movie is about whaterever abstract be yourself story EXCEPT queerness is not based, and also nobody wanted to see them making out come on being gay is not a exclusive sexual thing
@@whatsuphumans6460 Well obviously they can make explicit content for a kids movie but they could have easily had a little peck or even just a verbal statement from one or both of the main characters. The movie is pretty explicitly queer but Pixar refused to actually acknowledge that, saying that people were reading into it too much (of course only after they hyped it up and got a bunch of people to watch it). Honestly I think its at least somewhat baity. Edit: i just realized that we probably agree on that so sorry for so aggressively agreeing with you lol :)
I liked Loki coming out as bi, especially because the overall conversation about love and how Loki thinks of love continued later into the scene, so it wasn’t technically a throw-away. however, as a nonbinary person, I think they have handled their genderfluidity ATROCIOUSLY because *(SPOILERS FOR EPISODE FIVE SPOILERS FOR EPISODE FIVE)* Sylvie is thought to be the only non-male variant of Loki, even after we see 10+ Loki variants in the Void. super disappointed with how they said it was super important and going to be addressed and then being like, nah, crumbs. it doesn’t even seem like Disney pushing back against representing their genderfluidity. again, it seems like the writers didn’t even want to try. okay, rant over, I’m gonna take genderfluid Loki into my writer hands.
I like the show overall, it's fun and entertaining.. but GOOD GOD it has been driving me crazy how they took this character and ask for all this credit for showing a queer character on screen, and then made the straightest possible story about them. The whole way they talk about Sylvie is silly to me, if the character(s) are supposedly gender-fluid why would any of them be bewildered by the fact that one of them seems to favor presenting as feminine rather than masculine? At this point representation from Disney feels like a joke. Like they can make vague references to them being bi or genderfluid, but on-screen everyone has to be unambiguously male OR female and the leads have to be in a "wholesome straight relationship." Btw, yes bi people are valid and still queer even if they are in an opposite-sex relationship but it's more the fact they will never show anything actually queer on screen with these characters...
Y’all should read Magnus Chase; Alex is a genderfluid person (also Loki’s child). Plus, it’s an amazing series. I’m not genderfluid myself so I don’t actually know if it’s good representation or not, but it’s still an amazing series. Can someone who is genderfluid who has read the series tell me if it is a good representation? I’d like to know that Rick Riordan is doing good work :D
raya and the last dragon confused me because people said it was kinda fruity but when I watched it I couldn't see it.... until the climax and I immediately questioned why they weren't kissing
oh btw about luca: i totally agree that it was not queerbaiting! im a huge fan of luca and i interpret it as gay (im the same age as the boys and it helps me feel better abt being gay lol) i also think there’s definitely many reasons why people think of it as gay, it’s not like those people who think 2 characters are in love who barely even spoke. it’s *so easy* for queer kids to relate to it it’s insane lol. also a love song relating to the boys’ situation plays during the credits which is cute 😭💖💖
yeah, agreed, also he says that its toxic to say that 2 boys/men can't be just friends, but earlier he said that Steve Rogers and Bucky probably kissed but not on screen. that was kinda hypocrite. and i personally don't see them as a couple, steve and bucky, there isn't a love interest in their friendship. it is genuine and it feels genuine and platonic.
@@LeoBladini Fr, this boi is ALL OVER the place. “Queer coding is bad, but this woman is definitely a lesbian and gayer than the camp guy who actually got lines.”
@@chattywatty3963 I disagree if it would have been 2 girls everyone would have assumed they were just normal friends since it's much more common for girl friends to hold each other's hands and hug. Since it's 2 boys people assume they're gay since "male friends don't hold hands, they must be a couple" 🙄
for luca a lot of people veiw the entire movie to be an allegory for being queer which is where the debate comes from (personally im neutral with it but ive heard many people compare it)
i dont know if they are actually gay, but the whole coming out as sea monster and having a hard time being accepted. also could've just avoided being seen as sea monsters and kept that a secret, lived with the secret. is literally the best gay allegory i've seen. probably accidental.
People need to learn the difference between allegory and aplicability. Allegory is intentional symbolism. Aplicability is open to interpretation, the audience is free to see the media whatever they want. Luca (and most Pixar) is writen around aplicability instead of solid allegories. Allegories actually limited the audience. Aplicability gives the audience freedom. Luca's director pretty much is very open to any interpretation people have over Luca. The Director's vision should NOT limit the audience's experience, and allegories are actually tools to limit the audience.
@@miserirken hey now, i was just repeating what i heard. im not exactly the most intelligent so you cant exactly blame me too much for mixing up the words ^^'
Gotta disagree on some of these. Sure, Disney confirmed Loki as bisexual to pretend to have representation, but firstly, to me it felt genuine and not forced and secondly, Loki was bi and genderfluid before Marvel even existed
yeah. they were just having a conversation. it felt natural. not forced. i actually think skipping that bit of the conversation could make the scene weird. the time jump
the actual problem with the loki bi reveal is bc they try to keep it vague to keep the homophobic audience. also hes never shown in mlm. you obviously do not need to be in an mlm relationship to be bi. but in a movie as big as this, never showing loki in mlm is just a clever way to hide it. loki has been “pan/bi” or in general just queer in mythology of course but unfortunately, most marvel fans arent mythology nerds so i dont feel like that matters?? idk thats just my opinion. Loki is acknowledged in comics as queer a lot more!! but hollywood loves either erasing representation or vaguely hinting at it. Im not even gonna get into the whole genderfluid thing. but imo as a genderfluid pansexual, the bi loki was horrible and at this point i wouldve prefered if they just didnt do it at all.
@@jas7687 exactly my point. Ofc all bi- and pansexuals are still valid if they are in a heterosexual relationship, but now Disney could say they have representation without actually doing anything
I don't think Luca is an example of queerbaiting, however Alberto's and Luca's "history" is very very relatable for young gay people who realize they're gay because of a person they've met you know what I mean? And the whole "we are different and we're hiding from the town full of people thinking sea monsters are disgusting" thing could easily be a analogy for queerness This movie makes me feel so valid !
Yess, and the last line the grandma said "some people may never accept them, but some will" (or something like that). Luca is now and forever my comfort movie :]
You were right to say Luca and Alberto aren’t queer baiting, and here’s why I think so: Many people feel like ‘Luca’ can be an allegory for coming out, and people also feel like Luca and Alberto potentially like each other (a lot) from what happened between the two in the movie. I personally feel these opinions can both stand true without the movie needing to change at all. First off, the director himself said that people can use the allegory of feeling like an outcast to be interpreted for any situation. While this does mean the movie is not specifically a queer coming out allegory, it also doesn’t mean that interpretation is wrong. In fact, the director is saying that interpretation is 100% correct. As for Alberto and Luca being gay, I feel people can head canon the two leads as gay and in love since people have head canons all the time. This can all be done without getting in the way of the movie because the only thing the creator said was they were not dating. Not just that Luca and Alberto were dating but that no one was dating. He basically said no one’s sexualities were confirmed or denied because dating and romance wasn’t the focus of this movie. He actually said, “"So that was kind of part of me thinking about that. It’s also specifically a little bit pre-romance. That was something that I was interested in as well because there’s just that moment that maybe we’re not thinking about boyfriends and girlfriends yet, which is really more about friendships." (Enrico Casarosa on Out.com article “'Luca' Director Says Film Is About a 'Pre-Romance' Time in Boys' Lives”) So basically Luca and Alberto can be gay as much as they can be straight, and the movie nor do people’s interpretations of the movie have to change. And because they clearly had a very close bond in the first movie, if a sequel or series does happen and the directors choose to go in this direction, Luca and Alberto can potentially be dating in the future. So I don’t see this as queer baiting since 1) the director was honest about the intentions 2)no straight relationships happened to cover up and potential queer relationships and 3) the director left the door open for Luca and Alberto to be in a relationship in the future if romance is a topic of a future ‘Luca’ project Hopefully ‘Luca’ does get some form of continuation so we can see more of this duo in the future. And even more hopefully they are confirmed to be LGBTQ+ (even if not, Luberto head canon will live rent free in my head)
@@ikeepscreamingbutgodwontan3132 Right!! This is actually done in the show 'Julie and The Phantoms' between two characters (named Alex and Willie) where there is no moment of them saying they like each other or kissing, but they share a lot of close and personal moments.
fyi let the record show that it was CONFIRMED, not hinted at, but CONFIRMED by Marvel that Loki would get one male love interest and one female love interest. so if that doesn't happen, we riot.
The female love interest better not be Sylvie... I hate hate hate the direction they are taking it. Like female love interest is great but can it be someone who is not another Loki, you know.
@@FriendOfMara We don't know much about another dimensions (we don't even know if they exist, but let's think they do for a while). I think some people would love their another dimension self. I would become friends with another me, maybe even claim them as my sibling. But I'm not others, so I don't know what they would do in this situation.
Loki is considered genderfluid bc he comes out as such in the comics,, ik the movies and stuff dont follow the comics to a tee but hes considered to be genderfluid not bc hes a shapeshifter edit: fyi not saying they did the rep in the show good at all,, it was very bad
Someone who is a gender fluid character having the ability to shape-shift in general is kind of harmful still (coming from a genderfluid person, just so no one decides to be like yOu HaVe No RiGhT tO bE oFfEnDeD). The movies could have done a much better job with it like the comics did just in general. Not to mention the fact it says sex and not gender. It seems like it's just contributing to the mis education between the difference in sex and gender.
For Andi Mack's TJ and Cyrus, they actually did fully hold hands and interlocked fingers at the end of the bench scene!! I do agree that they could have done more though, and I'll never get over the fact that they became canon in the literal last episode of the entire series 😞
Yeah, the creator of the show even acknowledge that it feels rushed but the show had been canceled and she wanted to at least get their relationship in there. It was supposed to begin in season three and flourish into more in season four but they never got there.
@@juliabarker2375 I know Terri tried her best to get the relationship in the show and I'm really glad it happened but I hope one day there can be a follow up on Disney + with the kids in high school or college, even if it's just a one time thing 😢 I miss them so much lol
@@KikiMegami I miss them too. Hopefully one day that could happen, but the actors are all around the age of 18 now and it probably can’t happen unless it happens soon. Even if they could just make a movie or something that would be great
The “sex:fluid” thing really annoyed me, cause like, even if you want to argue it’s because Loki can shape shift, so yes, both their gender and sex are fluid, then why aren’t things like his height, weight and eye color also marked as “fluid” or something along those lines? imo this was either Disney execs not knowing the difference between sex and gender (and sexuality, since a lot of interviews talk about Loki’s “sexuality being fluid” ), or them wanting to use queer baiting to get money from the LGBTQ community (as per usual) but not wanting to actually own up to it or make any decisions that might not be profitable for the company. Both the blink and you miss it “sex:fluid” thing and the 3 lines of dialogue about Loki’s bisexuality can easily be edited out in countries that would be less accepting of LGBTQ characters. Yeah, it’s frustrating, cause we know Loki was bi and gender fluid in the comics, so we want to be able to say this is canon in the movies too, and that’s completely valid! But I don’t think we should be giving Disney (aka a gigantic corporation whose only goal is to profit) credit for something they did not do (aka giving us good representation, unfortunately)
Hi I just wanted to make the point that Loki is canonically gender fluid in mythology. So Disney acknowledging that at least from what I can see, is actually awesome because they aren’t just trying to ignore it.
I'm glad they're at least taking baby steps on stuff with this, but it really is baby steps. I'm glad they are at least acknowledging that LGBT+ people can exist... but it's 2021 and they're acting like it's the 50s or something and we have to talk about queer people only in coy allusions and veiled references. It wouldn't bug me as much if every tiny nod didn't get blown way out of proportion like it was the greatest groundbreaking achievement for representation in media... idk I have mixed feelings about it for sure.
@@NamelessAidan PREACH! They try to take credit for shit while constantly doing the bare minimum and it pisses me off. Like they aren't special or progressive, they are light years behind companies like DreamWorks (although lets be honest they aren't the most progressive either). Disney has a long history for being homophobic, treating queer employees horribly, and even funding anti-lgbtq politicians. They have a LOT of work to do to actually be allies and I hate when they pat themselves on the back for nothing.
yes!!!! and also, in Norse canon, he isn't considered genderfluid "just because he can shapeshift" it's a significant part of him, and even Odin himself acknowledges it, refusing to refer to Loki as his son or daughter, and rather as his child who is neither. it's a driving plot point in a lot of the myths, and I'm glad Disney didn't just write it out. /pos
@@kermitthedemon7801 this is true, even if he is coded mainly as a man, still seen as a shapshifting entity thats not really any gender. One thing though is that lokis father is farbaute and not odin...
the thing is, the way they acknowledged it was really really small? Like, in a “you blink and you’ll miss it” way. I feel like the comics addressed Loki’s genderfluidity wayy better, after all, in the newest episode while talking to the other lokis he refers to sylvie as a “woman Loki”, like, asking the other lokis if they had ever seen a female Loki, implying that all of them are not ever female. Again, i just don’t think we should be giving Disney credit for something they didn’t do. To me, this felt like Disney trying to get rainbow money. They made a big big deal out of Loki’s genderfluidity being a big win for representation during advertising and interviews for the show, but then didn’t make it relevant at all in the actual show, which is really shady imo. Hope I made my points clear, English is not my first language so I apologize for any mistakes! (love the Catra pfp btw
I’ve also seen Diary of a Future President, it has a closeted queer character who is falling in love with the new student. It also has a story of a lesbian trying to hide her relationship from her very traditional Mexican family.
In cruella, She asks how his flamboyant outfit went down on the streets and he says "Well, some abuse and insults of course but i like to think normal is the cruelest insult of them all." So, I'd say it is subtle while also being outright gay representation!
Old Loki literally said “That would be awful” when Loki mentionned a female Loki. The show literally acts like Loki's genderfluidity isn't a thing at all. That's in the french dub btw, i didn't watch the episode in english.
Literally in my heart luz and amity are Disney’s first openly lgbt characters who aren’t written terribly, I don’t like Carlos and seb they’re gay stereotypes, amity and Luz are characters who just happen to be lgbt and that’s what I love
I think Luca is a queer story at its core with or without the two boys having a crush on each other. Because it’s all about hiding one’s identity and trying not to get discovered and then at the end acceptance. And there’s this line that goes something like “Not everyone’s gonna like us for who we are and that’s sad but there are people in this world who do, and that’s what’s important.” Doesn’t get much more queer than that. And at the end of the day those boys are still kids. Figuring things out. I think if there was a sequel where they were in their teenage years, Pixar could explore a romantic relationship between the two. Like it wouldn’t be something unbelievable. But since this movie is about two kids I’m okay with them keeping it a really close friendship. Especially since the movie has queer motifs in a different way.
@@captain_chubbs5514 in comic idk, but in the actual mythology Loki gave birth to the spider horse Sleipnir, who later is the Odin's horse (english is not my first language, so my bad)
"Date" can be used in a non-romantic context, ie. play date, study date. Maybe it's more common among women, but I've used "date" to describe 2 person gatherings all the time.
Technically yeah, but it's with a throwaway background character with absolutely no consequence to the story. He never shows up again. All he did was talk about it and it was never shown onscreen. We don't need an inconsequential gay character played by a straight man who is onscreen for like two minutes, we need actual main characters who's sexualities are shown not just told.
In Raya, people think its gay bc the protagonist Raya and antagonist Namaari call each other dep la meaning strangely beautiful throughout the movie, as well as in most conversations between them they see to be literally FLIRTING. Also considering certain actions (like not killing each other) and simply other visibly gay interactions and dialogues.
I was starting to like Loki. But when they showed the female loki, I forgot her name, as a love interest... Idk how to feel about it. It's one of the shows that just doesn't need romance. Plus SHE IS LITERALY HIM WTH.
loki’s made me so mad. loki is supposed to be actually bi and genderfluid but they just gave a throwaway line and something in the credits and then turned around and made loki in love with a cis female version of himself AND had a line about how the loki’s would find being a woman gross and that they’ve never seen another loki variant. yeah the show’s so bad.
Another thing about Loki's reveal that pisses me off is that he is supposed to be pansexual. Now don't get me wrong as a bi person myself I know we need more bisexual representation in media but that should not come at the expense of erasing pansexuality. Also Loki is supposed to be genderfluid beyond just his shape-shifting abilities. In the comics the character has a female and a nonbinary form and goes by she/her and they/them pronouns. It not just Loki taking the visage of another person entirely but actually Loki identifying as a different gender. It's not great representation but better than what the MCU did which lost any nuance the genderfluidity of the comic character had. Plus as far as I can tell (which I haven't watched the show so I could be wrong) they completely erased young Loki being nonbinary so good job Disney you successfully let me down again.
@@bandkid3529 yeah that and once i went to an insta live where someone asked taika waititi why (not if) loki Did the grandmaster and he said something along the lines of "I mean hey. Things happen." So i guess that interaction just like inserted itself into the actual film in my head
Clyde’s parents from the loud house, they’re an openly gay couple! Clyde parents appear in a lot of episodes and even have their own. They’re also interracial .
I feel like the Loki argument for the genderfluidity is weird. Like, he IS genderfluid since he can change into different genders. The other Lokis dont have this power, thats why they might not be genderfluid and just male or female. I dont necessarily think of it as baiting but I am not to say honestly since i am not genderfluid, so I cant speak for the community
The problem is that they force Loki into the gender binary regardless of what they say his gender is. So they can get representation but still have a character that reads as male to the viewer. In the series they also make a big deal about him having a "female" variant, once again forcing her to read as a cis woman. Instead of doing that they could show the character as being comfortable in many presentations or even have a few mentions of it in dialouge, maybe even using gender neutral pronouns occasionally. Im also not genderfluid but I would really like to see more direct representation for all LGBTQ people.
@@FriendOfMara ohhhh ok I get it. I thought, even if they say he is genderfluid, presenting as male is valid because there is a lot of genderfluid people that feel more attachment to one gender than the other (same as him being bisexual he can still prefer woman over men) but I get what you are saying. Yeah he is not very good representation but ig at least its something.
@@priscilalopez8957 Yeah it is something and if people are happy about it I am absolutely stoked for them! I just think disney shouldn't pretend they are SOOO GrEAt over it lol. :)
I don’t think Luca is queer baiting or had made any indication to promise LGBT+ representation, however the “coming out” scene and the ostracization from his family and the townspeople can definitely be seen as a queer allegory. There doesn’t have to be anything romantic about the boys at all. And it really isn’t that important anyway. But the story plays out the same way two closeted gay FRIENDS would. It would be hard to convince me that this movie is compatible with any other real-life scenario.
I disagree about Luca. The director said that they were platonic because he wanted to tell a story about childhood friendship “before girlfriends or BOYFRIENDS came in to complicate things”. That statement is leaving the door wide open. Also it wasn’t just the close friendship it was that they used classic tropes from many romantic films with in the story, none of which I’ll spoil here, AND they released the film in the middle of pride month… like I’m supposed to believe that was all accidental? No. Sorry. Nothing in these projects are accidental with how much planning and work goes into an animated project like this.
However, I will say, I’m not mad about it. It can be both and they’re kids. To me it’s just a story about two friends who might be dealing with their first crush without even realizing it quite yet. I really loved Luca.
I, a queer person, saw Luca and a can't say that I didn't interpreted it as a queer metaphor, between Luca and Alberto there where some moments usually used in romantic movies and kinda cliché, but ultimately, they are kids that don't really think in romance at that age so I just saw them and Giulia really cute, what I did see as something that people can freely interpret as a queer metaphor is the whole fish thing, some people saw the fish thing as underdogs, but they literally hide who they are in public, can pass with the status quo(human(straight)), are okay being themselves between them and are scare to tell other people because is life threatening, I don't really can thing to many underdogs storylines that can match those in Luca besides being queer, I mean, I can be wrong, but it's just too much.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up LeFou in the live action Beauty and the Beast: that was hyped as having the first gay scene (or something like that) and it was just, like, he slow dances with a dude at the end or something.
The reason I think Alberto is probably the tiniest bit gay at least (anyone can believe what they believe, I'm a pansexual child and this is my interpretation) isn't because they are best friends. Alberto gets jealous to the point he risks his life, honestly. I agree it could just be a friendship but the way he acts just feels like his feelings may be a little more than friendship. And my mind told me while I was watching the movie, "It would be nice if Alberto and Luca were the ship but its there's a ship it's probably going to be Giulia and Luca because they're a girl and a boy who are close. My heart can hope." So yeah
Tbh I feel like Loki being pretty much officially bi shouldn’t have been given that much more attention in the show because it wasn’t plot relevant or something that the character finds relevant in the moment… it only comes up because he is discussing romance with Sylvie. If they had something between him and another guy then I could see it coming up again but in the context of the show, looking at what his character has been through and is fighting for, why would it be relevant beyond that conversation?! Like cool that it’s confirmed in the mcu because now we know, but honestly I’m just glad that they didn’t do what far too many writers do and make it his personality all of a sudden or only include it so that the character’s personal arc could only revolve around their sexuality. It just doesn’t make sense for the show and I’m glad that we could have a bi character whose whole arc isn’t just that they are bi… we don’t expect this from straight characters and I feel like it’s pandering to give it more attention in this context.
While watching the show I didn't even catch him saying it, so it's not really good enough for me. I agree that him being Bi is just a fact that exists, and isn't super relevant to the plot, but we need representation desperately and Marvel has such a wide audience that if they made it outright impossible for homophobes to ignore Loki's sexuality and gender, it could really, really help the queer community. The discrimination and oppression we face every day is disgusting. I can't live the rest of my life being treated this way. Loki isn't the first show to do this and probably won't be the last. It's not a breakthrough in any way, 'oh this character is this sexuality but we will never show it onscreen because that is disgusting and we don't condone it' happens way, way too often and we have to stop going along with it or it's never going to stop.
It's not queerbaiting if the character literally says they're bisexual. As a fellow bi person, I loved seeing Loki and Sylvie come out. We basically never get representation.
it's hard to call a couple lines of dialogue with no video evidence as representation in a tv/film. I didn't even hear him say it when I was watching the show, it went right over my head and I found out through instagram. It's not enough, and the only people who really care are those already in the queer community. The conversation itself felt natural when I went back to rewatch that scene but it doesn't deserve to be praised. We deserve better
Loki is also genderfluid in the comics. He’s referenced as such multiple times. His father says “My son, and my daughter and my child who is both.” When speaking to Thor, Hela, and Loki. Loki himself also says it blatantly in the comics. The people actually working on the show have to fight just to get a single word on a piece of paper for a single second, because Disney is so scared of losing a fraction of their profits. Loki in the MCU has been canonically genderfluid for forever. - Sincerely, a genderfluid person 💕
I see Luca as a gay film not because of Luca and Alberto, but because of the metaphors laced through with the whole sea monster things. It's really relatable.
I would like to mention that even though Luca and Alberto’s relationship was a friendship, the whole thing where sea monsters were not accepted felt very similar to how gay people aren’t fully accepted. I think that fuels the fire of people thinking the two are gay.
I mostly agree with your analysis of the Raya one, but I definitely disagree about there being gay subtext -- like she and Namaari were obviously into each other u know 👀👀(and Namaari is one of the most queer-coded characters I have ever seen) Also I love this video and the other one!!! Just subscribed :)
Help Luca is the gayest thing I've ever seen from Disney this year and I'm gay BUT I see it more in platonic/crush way, like they're don't have idea of they like each other but when they grow up they could be the cutest gay couple ever 😭☝️
Loki’s situation is not necessarily the same thing as someone like let’s say Double Trouble. Double trouble has always used they them pronouns, and their main form is very androgynous (androgyny does not mean non-binary but I feel you get what I am saying) Also they are voiced by a nb person. Loki however seems to just be someone who changes and it does not really have anything to do with how he actually feels in his gender.
Honestly Lus and Amity are soo cute the only thing I want is for them to get together in a timely manner so they can stay together for the rest of the show. Though that's probably wishful thinking as they probably will get together at the last minute of the series.
The reason I think Luca is gay is the way that Alberto got so ducking jealous when Luca started being friends w Julia. + the trailer was VERY much made to look like cmbyn which we will not discuss bc that book was a dumpster fire
@@taylorboney1089 while that is true and a very good point it makes sense both ways which is kinda nice, i wish they made is at least a lil fruity but its still a good marketing technique so the gays see what they wanna see and the straights see what they wanna ser
Rip I'm bi and genderfluid and I got baited twice. Still love the show but yeah, I didn't know Loki was genderfluid until a friend who actively reads the comics told me. Ngl it'd be really cool if we saw Loki shapeshift a bit more to fit that if they were gonna use the "fluidity" literally. At least that's what I would do.
I was really hoping the female Loki would be our Loki shapeshifting to be more comfortable every now and again. The show really, really disappointed me and comes across as really transphobic to me :(
Russo's character's first line was "I went on a date the other day." It wasn't ambiguous. I'm not saying it gave the gays what we wanted, but it does seem to be more like somewhere between ambiguously queer and technically representation.
I loved luka I thought both of them were queer and wanted them to be just because I connected to the movie so much I also think lgbtq representation for kids is important I wish there was more since growing up I was so confused because I never saw anything queer I think he had a point in the toxic masculinity because just because a boy is showing emotions and having friendship doesn’t mean they are queer I actually thought they were queer because of Alberto being jealous I was like that with my first same sex crush at the time she was my friend. Idk why I made this so long
Queer coding historically was also used by s lot of queer film makers to give some kind of representation. I'm talking pre 1950/60s. Don't get me wrong it led to a lot of awful representation but this was also because in the states it was actually illegal to depict gay men. Now? It's just lazy stereotyping without the representation as you say.
The characters in runaways would be way too young to actually get married. The wedding thing was pretty central to the plot (not able to be censored) and was really cute, with the two girls each imagining their dream wedding.
In regards to Raya, like it’s very similar to Luca that it could be read that way, and apparently the actress thought it was so easy to be read as such, that she chose to purposefully play the role under that head canon. I mean it’s not representation. Like it isn’t.. but it’s really nice that so many people can identify with this princess, and that the actress herself is super supportive of it.
Ok but the reason that people consider Loki genderfluid is actually because in original Norse mythology their were times where Loki would refer to themself as a female and make others as well, and times as a male.
That face y made when u said “ iv seen the way he looks at Ricky, he don’t look at ashlyn like that” I never even thought of that 😂 The gay couple on hsmtmts are a bit stereotyped ngl, their always happy all the time it’s like their immune to being sad or something their not portrayed that deeply like the other characters
@@zainabalzangana238 that’s so good! But it is a huge stereotype that exists in lots of shows,most have the parents be super unaccepting and makes the gay characters really sad, that happens irl of course but it’s overused at this point.
@@flamebunny6511 I havnt seen like ANY show that’s like that but ur probably right, but all the ones iv watched are so accepting and pictures dust and rainbows and stuff it’s not realistic, they make gay their only character trait sometimes, but the owl house handles that amazingly
For Raya, it's not just that the actress said she portrayed her as queer, the character's relationship with her ex best friend / rival is EXTREMELY gay and filled with sexual tension (literally bad breakup vibes but then SPOILERS by the end they reconcile and it's so so sweet) so the fact that Raya's actress said she played it straight (kek) Raya being in love with her in mind is pretty damn poggers 2 me. I know a lot of ppl shit on Raya or say it was boring or lame so I'm just >( since for me it was my favorite thing Disney has put out in a long time. Especially the timing, it's a story about different people who have all been hurt by capitalism-induced-global-warming-pandemic-- I mean global cataclysm learning to put aside their differences and work together against self interest and during Covid when the reality was...very much Not That it just felt nice to believe that there are still people willing to reach out a hand and take a chance believing in someone else... It was same vibe as "friendship is magic" but a lot more nuanced and mature and I love that The world building was really fun too each country was so unique and colorful and lushly designed plus the action scenes were really fun and well-directed (action is much easier to do in animation imo). So it really was just icing on the cake that Raya was gay af
About Luca, I know that the creator didn't do the movie with the intention of it being queer, but a movie is art, and art has different interpretations, and in art every interpretation is correct because it depends in the eye of the viewer, maybe some queers saw themselves in the movie and that's awesome, but people can't go around bullying everyone who has a different interpretation of the movie, I've seen people online literally insult other people for disagreeing with them and saying that the movie isn't queer, I personally do see it as queer, but I think people should be more open about others' way of thinking
Actually Luca has so many Gay allegories you should check out Rowan Ellis video about it. Like the entire sea monster thing and Luca’s parents being ‘homophobic’ towards him and sending him to a kinda conversion therapy thing. And then the entire town being ‘homophobic’ towards sea monsters and then the line in the end of the movie when Luca’s grandma says there will always be people who won’t accept him but he seems to find the good ones. And then just all of Alberto’s storyline is about finding a chosen family after his father abandoned him. And then him being jealous of Luca having another friend.
i think Luca reads as queer to most people not only because of the close friendship between the main characters, but also because of the storyline of Luca not being accepted (for being a fish). his grandmother even says “not everyone will accept him, but he seems to find right people who will”, so that kind of also resonated with queer people
I mean MCU wise I can understand where you’re coming from, but Loki has been canonically genderfluid and bisexual in the comics for a pretty long time, and has been accurately represented in my opinion idk
Yeah the comics do quite a good job from what i've seen, but most MCU fans don't read the comics. The MCU already has characters and their stories to adapt so why are they doing a worse job of representation? It's really, really disappointing
They really said Loki was bi...before throwing him with his own counterpart/variant who happens to be female, cause....why not. Also it should be noted for descendants, while it was cut from film, it was in the novel of the film, aka it being mentioned in the pirates celebration, Harry kisses Gil....very convient then hes suddenly flirting with every girl in sight in the next movie.
Nothing to do with acting, but if a queer person is playing the role than a) it's lest likely to be stereotyped representation, b) you're supporting the people in your community, and c) makes sure that LGBT people are getting their roles, as they sometimes have a harder time getting noticed over big shot celebrities. 🙃
I appreciate their thoughts on Luca. The film isn’t necessarily gay, it’s more like a metaphor. Yes I do like the idea that the two leads could like each other, but I also like the idea of them being super close friends. The movie is adorable either way. I wish people wouldn’t argue so much about it because at the end of the day everyone will interpret the film differently. Lots of respect for not putting it on the tier list.
i mean what did u expect, a whole musical about loki being bi, i prefer them just saying it in a normal conversation rather than forcing him to have a boyfriend or make out with some guy also loki has been gender fluid ever since he existed, even before marvel was created
I think what makes people believe Luca is a "queer" movie, is the metaphor of "showing your true colors" the characters struggle cause they have to hide their real form from humans.
I truly appreciate your video as you are doing it right. Art is subjective and Head Canons need to be respected. I personally wish more of the community was like you as I have seen so many people take this and accuse Disney of gay baiting like they have in the past with Endgame and more reccently Raya and just getting pissy with anyone who dissagrees with how THEY see the character and not in a hateful manner, just like a "Oh, I don't really see them as that but that's cool." As someone in the LGBTQ+ I completely agree with calling out companies when they promise us representation and then its like a guy locks eyes with another man, boom! Gay! I mean I respect the directors envisioning of this movie too though, I mean it truly was a retelling of his summer days with his friend Alberto (who actually came to the premiere.) And to him it wasn't anything but a friendship, but like when Stephen King was pressed on if he intended Reddie (Richie Tozier and Eddie Kaspbrak) as a Gay pairing he replied "I never really intended that, but if you see it that way, that's how it is to you." And for me that's not going to stop me shipping Richie and Eddie (I also deny that Eddie died in Chapter 2, nah he did that to get out of his lavender marriage) but I do agree people need to calm down on both sides of this. Are Alberto and Luca gay or Bi? Its up to you. Sadly fandoms are very disrespectful now a days and either bully others in the group or harass the creators. We do need representation big time, but if some young Twitter gays go after the director and try and bully him into agreeing with our HC of Luca, its no better than these jerks bullying us saying "oh, your sexualizing kids."
People don't think Luca is gay because they're friends. We see as gay because being a sea monster is easily seen as a metaphor for being LGBTQ+. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. The whole town hates what they are and they keep it hidden. They run into situations that could out them and panic for their lives. Alberto gets jealous of Luca's new friend and "outs" himself to prove to Luca they would never be accepted. Many characters change their perspective of sea monsters after finding out. Massimo knows who they are and that them being sea monsters doesn't change anything. There's to old women who do everything together who also show that they've been sea monsters the whole time. And then there's the line near the end that Luca's Grandma says "Some people, they’ll never except him. But some will. And he seems to knock how to find the good ones". So no, we aren't seeing a friendship between boys and going "THAT'S GAY!" We're seeing a metaphor for queerness and going "Ah, so sea monsters are gay."
I think Luca is one of those films that can be read as queer. It’s not necessarily gay, but many classic literature and films are read with a queer lens, and the source isn’t specifically about lgbt. So…why not?
It's not explicitly straight, so it could be gay. Ig I'll take that as a win?
i think its up for interpretation. the creator said it wasnt gay, but he also said it wasn't straight. i feel like it isn't technically queer-baiting, but more of a movie that can have many interpretations to what the actual meaning is.
@@josephinamueller3795 Yes I 100% agree, the only sad thing is that with so little representation (and sometimes just awful representation) this movie easily could've had gay representation and done it well. But at least it's neither ig.
@@josephinamueller3795 I agree. The same Can be said in English classes; in Gatsby, Nick can be read as gay (he’s not stereotypically gay but there’s basically a whole treasure trove of analysis). So…if we can analyze literature like that, why not film?
Honestly a lot of the seance are very gay especially the ending scene when Luca and Alberbta say goodbye.
Loki’s genderfluidity is much better in the comics like I remember seeing panels where they can’t shapeshift and they can only be their true self and they switch between different forms/genders which I think is really cool I wish that MCU would do that
I 100% agree the comics handled the gender fluidity of Loki much better. If we are going to be honest and look at the Noris source text they did a better job than Disney. Who ever came up with the Sleipnir story line I give them credit. Oh Noris you were some creative souls.
and in several comics she just shifts between man and women whenever she wants and its not like for plot reasons. Just however she feels in the moment and wants to be seen :)
Omg ur profile pic of goth gives me life
@@mia-wn4dp prep is that you?? /j
@@mia-wn4dp prepppp
Lokis “sex:fluid" literally pisses me off so much because he is ACTUALLY genderfluid in some of the comics and also (LOKI SPOILERS) in the void he’s like y’all ever seen a girl loki talking about sylvie implying that loki is never female
Loki already did took a female form before
Also, he was genderfluid in the original myths
i think it was implying that he doesn't have any predetermined sex, and how it matches with their fluid gender identity, but since neither gender or gender identity are mentioned, i see what you mean. also I'm pretty sure there are *some* legal documents in some countries that list sex instead of gender, so the tva might be like that too but idk
Same- Loki the character is what helped me realize my own fluidity
Ellen really said stop gatekeeping bad short haircuts, they’re not just for lesbians. Iconic
Middle school me with a shaggy Harry Potter hair cut: 👁👄👁💦
we don’t associate the word iconic with someone who harasses her workers and humiliates people on live television👹
@@Bee-fu9uz THANKS.
My lesbian sister who got an awful haircut: *o h. o k a y*
Also Ellen: asks Celine dion when she’s going to cut her son’s hair because it’s too long
"You can tell they're both women because they're pink, and you can tell they're both lesbians because of their shirts.
I’ve really been enjoying Loki but that “bisexual” reveal just made me roll my eyes. It just kinda bothers me that people are acting like Marvel/Disney is changing the world for having ONE line that like you said can easily be cut out for homophobic countries.
edit: I do like that Loki is bisexual, I just wish they would’ve shown us rather than telling us
Wait they said that? I didnt even notice
I did like the reveal, but I hate that people are acting like it’s huge and groundbreaking.
It’s also really ridiculous that people are like “OH MY GOD LOKI IS GENDERFLUID!” when you can’t even see it
@@everyonegetselfears1444 I just realized my original comment made it seem like I didn’t like the reveal. I do like that Loki is bisexual but I hate that people are giving Disney more credit than they deserve. I feel like just saying it is doing the bare minimum. They could’ve maybe shown Loki kissing another guy, etc.
It made me incredibly happy to see that he's bisexual and that Disney put it in, but I can't help but agree. It's a one liner that can easily be taken out for other countries.
Me: i wanna see Loki turn fem
Marvel: alternate person?
Me: no, I wanna see OUR Loki shapeshifter between genders
Marvel: HA! No.
Love that you made a Hazbin Hotel reference while having a HH pfp
@@lunaticmotorstormer correct, in fact it’s stuck as this cause it don’t let me change it.
@@lunaticmotorstormer it’s been 2 years 😭
@@lunaticmotorstormer only one year??? It feels like 3 or 5 damn
One of the biggest reasons people actually thought Luca was gay wasn’t even just because of the friendship between the two boys
(SPOILER WARNING FOR ANYONE WHO HASN’T SEEN IT) but because people saw the two boys who were sea monsters and were ostracized by society for it and had to keep their identity a secret because they feared people wouldn’t accept them as an allegory for queerness.
And the grandma literally says there'll be people who will hate them just for being who they are but there'll also be many who will support them.
@@hamu08 yup! That too!
But hasn't there been movies with discrimination and alienation
I think that this does have a lot to do with their gender and friendship
@@sugarzblossom8168 Its mixture of multiple things. The gay allegory wouldnt really be able to work if they were not both the same gender. Thats kinda obvious.
Not just acceptance, but also "coming out of the water" as in "coming out". Also running away from home when not being accepted, which is a common gay experience (40% of homeless youth are LGBT+ and 80% of them claim they either were kicked due to identity or ran away due to not being accepted) also color design, the blues and purples being the mlm flag. That one again was probably not intentional but any interpretations are correct if they can be argued
Not just that but there’s a scene where Alberto is “outed” and Luca pretends to be scared of him to protect his own safety
I hate how they were all like "wow Loki is genderfluid!" And then when he Loki meets a female version of himself he's like "hUh??????"
"have you ever met a female loki?" "Sounds terrifying" -- we get some tasty sexism along with it
Honestly I feel like Luca shouldn’t count to be queer baiting (I know it wasn’t put on the list) because before people watched it there was nothing that made it seem to have lgbtq representation but after watching the film I feel like it was a metaphor for coming out and acceptance. I feel just Luca and Alberto’s relationship was just a small detail (I’m not saying they’re dating I know they’re just friends) I also know that the director said that he didn’t intend to. (Side note: not sure if Disney was aware but for the song they played for the credits ‘Cittá Vuota’ that is a love song about there love who is far away from them)
Sorry to write a summary I didn’t intend to make this sound rude if it did.keep in mind anyone can have their own opinion on how they interpret the movie and remember that this is just my opinion. Other than that I loved the video and I’d say your ratings are understandable
Good point but is your profile picture Simon from the old Alvin and the chipmunks cartoon? If so that’s awesome
@@buckets1623 it’s actually Alvin from the 2000 special ‘Alvin and the chipmunks meet the wolfman’ though I do watch the 80s cartoon
@@samon8129Alvin and the wolf man was my second guess. I loved it when I was younger
I honestly clicked out of vide on that part, I get mad every time people reduce the movie to that and ignore the entire rest of the movie that is so clearly queer, also saying that the movie is about whaterever abstract be yourself story EXCEPT queerness is not based, and also nobody wanted to see them making out come on being gay is not a exclusive sexual thing
@@whatsuphumans6460 Well obviously they can make explicit content for a kids movie but they could have easily had a little peck or even just a verbal statement from one or both of the main characters. The movie is pretty explicitly queer but Pixar refused to actually acknowledge that, saying that people were reading into it too much (of course only after they hyped it up and got a bunch of people to watch it). Honestly I think its at least somewhat baity. Edit: i just realized that we probably agree on that so sorry for so aggressively agreeing with you lol :)
I liked Loki coming out as bi, especially because the overall conversation about love and how Loki thinks of love continued later into the scene, so it wasn’t technically a throw-away. however, as a nonbinary person, I think they have handled their genderfluidity ATROCIOUSLY because *(SPOILERS FOR EPISODE FIVE SPOILERS FOR EPISODE FIVE)* Sylvie is thought to be the only non-male variant of Loki, even after we see 10+ Loki variants in the Void. super disappointed with how they said it was super important and going to be addressed and then being like, nah, crumbs. it doesn’t even seem like Disney pushing back against representing their genderfluidity. again, it seems like the writers didn’t even want to try. okay, rant over, I’m gonna take genderfluid Loki into my writer hands.
That’s the exact way I feel
As a bisexual, PERIODT
I like the show overall, it's fun and entertaining.. but GOOD GOD it has been driving me crazy how they took this character and ask for all this credit for showing a queer character on screen, and then made the straightest possible story about them. The whole way they talk about Sylvie is silly to me, if the character(s) are supposedly gender-fluid why would any of them be bewildered by the fact that one of them seems to favor presenting as feminine rather than masculine? At this point representation from Disney feels like a joke.
Like they can make vague references to them being bi or genderfluid, but on-screen everyone has to be unambiguously male OR female and the leads have to be in a "wholesome straight relationship."
Btw, yes bi people are valid and still queer even if they are in an opposite-sex relationship but it's more the fact they will never show anything actually queer on screen with these characters...
Y’all should read Magnus Chase; Alex is a genderfluid person (also Loki’s child). Plus, it’s an amazing series. I’m not genderfluid myself so I don’t actually know if it’s good representation or not, but it’s still an amazing series. Can someone who is genderfluid who has read the series tell me if it is a good representation? I’d like to know that Rick Riordan is doing good work :D
Also, it's kinda of a cop out saying Loki is bi and then giving him a woman as a love interest.
raya and the last dragon confused me because people said it was kinda fruity but when I watched it I couldn't see it.... until the climax and I immediately questioned why they weren't kissing
lmao fr
like raya and namaari 😳
/hj
i haven't watched that movie yet are you talking about the dragon and the girl kissing
@@kaijukarnage nah, the girl and her rival, its got catradora vibes
@@maebh2462 ohhhh ok thank god that makes more sense thanks
@@kaijukarnage that would be an issue
me 🤝 loki: being bisexual and genderfluid
Cool!
Cool2!! Im genderfluid but pan :3
I’m omni and genderfluid 👁
@@pescuezoee I’m aro ace
@@VexDeePhilosophs me too! 🤝
oh btw about luca: i totally agree that it was not queerbaiting! im a huge fan of luca and i interpret it as gay (im the same age as the boys and it helps me feel better abt being gay lol) i also think there’s definitely many reasons why people think of it as gay, it’s not like those people who think 2 characters are in love who barely even spoke. it’s *so easy* for queer kids to relate to it it’s insane lol. also a love song relating to the boys’ situation plays during the credits which is cute 😭💖💖
yeah, agreed, also he says that its toxic to say that 2 boys/men can't be just friends, but earlier he said that Steve Rogers and Bucky probably kissed but not on screen. that was kinda hypocrite. and i personally don't see them as a couple, steve and bucky, there isn't a love interest in their friendship. it is genuine and it feels genuine and platonic.
@@LeoBladini Fr, this boi is ALL OVER the place. “Queer coding is bad, but this woman is definitely a lesbian and gayer than the camp guy who actually got lines.”
@@chattywatty3963 fr i’ve only been that touchy with my best friend that i had a crush on and im serious
@@chattywatty3963 I disagree
if it would have been 2 girls everyone would have assumed they were just normal friends since it's much more common for girl friends to hold each other's hands and hug. Since it's 2 boys people assume they're gay since "male friends don't hold hands, they must be a couple" 🙄
@@gianinparisquebecparis814 not rlly if they were girls they would still be fruity 🙄
for luca a lot of people veiw the entire movie to be an allegory for being queer which is where the debate comes from (personally im neutral with it but ive heard many people compare it)
i see it like that and once you watch it through that lens you can see how relatable to our experiences is
i dont know if they are actually gay, but the whole coming out as sea monster and having a hard time being accepted. also could've just avoided being seen as sea monsters and kept that a secret, lived with the secret. is literally the best gay allegory i've seen. probably accidental.
People need to learn the difference between allegory and aplicability.
Allegory is intentional symbolism. Aplicability is open to interpretation, the audience is free to see the media whatever they want. Luca (and most Pixar) is writen around aplicability instead of solid allegories.
Allegories actually limited the audience. Aplicability gives the audience freedom. Luca's director pretty much is very open to any interpretation people have over Luca. The Director's vision should NOT limit the audience's experience, and allegories are actually tools to limit the audience.
@@miserirken hey now, i was just repeating what i heard. im not exactly the most intelligent so you cant exactly blame me too much for mixing up the words ^^'
Gotta disagree on some of these. Sure, Disney confirmed Loki as bisexual to pretend to have representation, but firstly, to me it felt genuine and not forced and secondly, Loki was bi and genderfluid before Marvel even existed
Yesヾ(･ω･*)ﾉ
yeah. they were just having a conversation. it felt natural. not forced. i actually think skipping that bit of the conversation could make the scene weird. the time jump
Loki is bi before Jesus existed but the thing wasn't treated like it should be
the actual problem with the loki bi reveal is bc they try to keep it vague to keep the homophobic audience. also hes never shown in mlm. you obviously do not need to be in an mlm relationship to be bi. but in a movie as big as this, never showing loki in mlm is just a clever way to hide it.
loki has been “pan/bi” or in general just queer in mythology of course but unfortunately, most marvel fans arent mythology nerds so i dont feel like that matters?? idk thats just my opinion.
Loki is acknowledged in comics as queer a lot more!! but hollywood loves either erasing representation or vaguely hinting at it. Im not even gonna get into the whole genderfluid thing. but imo as a genderfluid pansexual, the bi loki was horrible and at this point i wouldve prefered if they just didnt do it at all.
@@jas7687 exactly my point. Ofc all bi- and pansexuals are still valid if they are in a heterosexual relationship, but now Disney could say they have representation without actually doing anything
I don't think Luca is an example of queerbaiting, however Alberto's and Luca's "history" is very very relatable for young gay people who realize they're gay because of a person they've met you know what I mean?
And the whole "we are different and we're hiding from the town full of people thinking sea monsters are disgusting" thing could easily be a analogy for queerness
This movie makes me feel so valid !
Yess, and the last line the grandma said "some people may never accept them, but some will" (or something like that). Luca is now and forever my comfort movie :]
@@doingmaths6889 -and he knows how to find the good ones” ^^
@@pescuezoee thanks:]
@@doingmaths6889 Me too. I cried my eyes out when she said that because I felt so seen.
As a young bi person who found out they were bi because of a person I met, I relate.
Joe Russo, seeing people wanting lgbt rep: “Guess I’ll gay”
he's like oh you wanted steve and bucky? ha that's funny anyways here's steve in a heterosexual romance he has substantially less chemistry with
@@catfeldman3614 ^^^
You were right to say Luca and Alberto aren’t queer baiting, and here’s why I think so:
Many people feel like ‘Luca’ can be an allegory for coming out, and people also feel like Luca and Alberto potentially like each other (a lot) from what happened between the two in the movie. I personally feel these opinions can both stand true without the movie needing to change at all. First off, the director himself said that people can use the allegory of feeling like an outcast to be interpreted for any situation. While this does mean the movie is not specifically a queer coming out allegory, it also doesn’t mean that interpretation is wrong. In fact, the director is saying that interpretation is 100% correct.
As for Alberto and Luca being gay, I feel people can head canon the two leads as gay and in love since people have head canons all the time. This can all be done without getting in the way of the movie because the only thing the creator said was they were not dating. Not just that Luca and Alberto were dating but that no one was dating. He basically said no one’s sexualities were confirmed or denied because dating and romance wasn’t the focus of this movie.
He actually said, “"So that was kind of part of me thinking about that. It’s also specifically a little bit pre-romance. That was something that I was interested in as well because there’s just that moment that maybe we’re not thinking about boyfriends and girlfriends yet, which is really more about friendships." (Enrico Casarosa on Out.com article “'Luca' Director Says Film Is About a 'Pre-Romance' Time in Boys' Lives”)
So basically Luca and Alberto can be gay as much as they can be straight, and the movie nor do people’s interpretations of the movie have to change. And because they clearly had a very close bond in the first movie, if a sequel or series does happen and the directors choose to go in this direction, Luca and Alberto can potentially be dating in the future. So I don’t see this as queer baiting since
1) the director was honest about the intentions
2)no straight relationships happened to cover up and potential queer relationships
and 3) the director left the door open for Luca and Alberto to be in a relationship in the future if romance is a topic of a future ‘Luca’ project
Hopefully ‘Luca’ does get some form of continuation so we can see more of this duo in the future. And even more hopefully they are confirmed to be LGBTQ+ (even if not, Luberto head canon will live rent free in my head)
awesome take !! i 100% agree with you :)
THIS ✨
Yeah like, can two people not like each other without confirming it or sharing a kiss???
@@ikeepscreamingbutgodwontan3132 Right!! This is actually done in the show 'Julie and The Phantoms' between two characters (named Alex and Willie) where there is no moment of them saying they like each other or kissing, but they share a lot of close and personal moments.
fyi let the record show that it was CONFIRMED, not hinted at, but CONFIRMED by Marvel that Loki would get one male love interest and one female love interest. so if that doesn't happen, we riot.
Wait really?! 😍🤩 Do know where I can find the confirmation or anything? Thanks!
The female love interest better not be Sylvie... I hate hate hate the direction they are taking it. Like female love interest is great but can it be someone who is not another Loki, you know.
@@FriendOfMara I actually like Loki x Sylvie 😭🤚
@@1tzm3hh11 Whelp nothing I can say... I hate it but I respect ur ship XD
@@FriendOfMara We don't know much about another dimensions (we don't even know if they exist, but let's think they do for a while). I think some people would love their another dimension self. I would become friends with another me, maybe even claim them as my sibling. But I'm not others, so I don't know what they would do in this situation.
"Ayy I'm Joe Russo, I'm gayy and I love the mets" will haunt me for the rest of my life 😭😂💀
timestamp?
@@radioheadlover09 24:54
The fact that I read your comment the moment he said it-
Loki is considered genderfluid bc he comes out as such in the comics,, ik the movies and stuff dont follow the comics to a tee but hes considered to be genderfluid not bc hes a shapeshifter
edit: fyi not saying they did the rep in the show good at all,, it was very bad
Neat don't follow Comics. But nice see how keep aspect of Loki being Mother of Sleipnir in Norse Mythology mix into Comics in sense he Gender Fluid.
Ok but Loki in Norse mythology is genderfluid so Marvel did not make Loki genderfluid, Loki already was.
Someone who is a gender fluid character having the ability to shape-shift in general is kind of harmful still (coming from a genderfluid person, just so no one decides to be like yOu HaVe No RiGhT tO bE oFfEnDeD). The movies could have done a much better job with it like the comics did just in general. Not to mention the fact it says sex and not gender. It seems like it's just contributing to the mis education between the difference in sex and gender.
@@lottapitchy9625 true, just kinda wish marvel could've, yk, did it better than they did.
@@sallucien9454 very true.
Americans: Have you heard they made Loki bi and gender-fluid!?
Me, a Scandinavian: When was he not?
For Andi Mack's TJ and Cyrus, they actually did fully hold hands and interlocked fingers at the end of the bench scene!! I do agree that they could have done more though, and I'll never get over the fact that they became canon in the literal last episode of the entire series 😞
Yeah, the creator of the show even acknowledge that it feels rushed but the show had been canceled and she wanted to at least get their relationship in there. It was supposed to begin in season three and flourish into more in season four but they never got there.
@@juliabarker2375 I know Terri tried her best to get the relationship in the show and I'm really glad it happened but I hope one day there can be a follow up on Disney + with the kids in high school or college, even if it's just a one time thing 😢 I miss them so much lol
@@KikiMegami I miss them too. Hopefully one day that could happen, but the actors are all around the age of 18 now and it probably can’t happen unless it happens soon. Even if they could just make a movie or something that would be great
Our threshold for gay rep in disney: OMG ACTUAL HAND HOLDINGGGGG
the bar is so low yall
The “sex:fluid” thing really annoyed me, cause like, even if you want to argue it’s because Loki can shape shift, so yes, both their gender and sex are fluid, then why aren’t things like his height, weight and eye color also marked as “fluid” or something along those lines? imo this was either Disney execs not knowing the difference between sex and gender (and sexuality, since a lot of interviews talk about Loki’s “sexuality being fluid” ), or them wanting to use queer baiting to get money from the LGBTQ community (as per usual) but not wanting to actually own up to it or make any decisions that might not be profitable for the company. Both the blink and you miss it “sex:fluid” thing and the 3 lines of dialogue about Loki’s bisexuality can easily be edited out in countries that would be less accepting of LGBTQ characters. Yeah, it’s frustrating, cause we know Loki was bi and gender fluid in the comics, so we want to be able to say this is canon in the movies too, and that’s completely valid! But I don’t think we should be giving Disney (aka a gigantic corporation whose only goal is to profit) credit for something they did not do (aka giving us good representation, unfortunately)
Hi I just wanted to make the point that Loki is canonically gender fluid in mythology. So Disney acknowledging that at least from what I can see, is actually awesome because they aren’t just trying to ignore it.
I'm glad they're at least taking baby steps on stuff with this, but it really is baby steps. I'm glad they are at least acknowledging that LGBT+ people can exist... but it's 2021 and they're acting like it's the 50s or something and we have to talk about queer people only in coy allusions and veiled references.
It wouldn't bug me as much if every tiny nod didn't get blown way out of proportion like it was the greatest groundbreaking achievement for representation in media... idk I have mixed feelings about it for sure.
@@NamelessAidan PREACH! They try to take credit for shit while constantly doing the bare minimum and it pisses me off. Like they aren't special or progressive, they are light years behind companies like DreamWorks (although lets be honest they aren't the most progressive either). Disney has a long history for being homophobic, treating queer employees horribly, and even funding anti-lgbtq politicians. They have a LOT of work to do to actually be allies and I hate when they pat themselves on the back for nothing.
yes!!!! and also, in Norse canon, he isn't considered genderfluid "just because he can shapeshift" it's a significant part of him, and even Odin himself acknowledges it, refusing to refer to Loki as his son or daughter, and rather as his child who is neither. it's a driving plot point in a lot of the myths, and I'm glad Disney didn't just write it out. /pos
@@kermitthedemon7801 this is true, even if he is coded mainly as a man, still seen as a shapshifting entity thats not really any gender. One thing though is that lokis father is farbaute and not odin...
the thing is, the way they acknowledged it was really really small? Like, in a “you blink and you’ll miss it” way. I feel like the comics addressed Loki’s genderfluidity wayy better, after all, in the newest episode while talking to the other lokis he refers to sylvie as a “woman Loki”, like, asking the other lokis if they had ever seen a female Loki, implying that all of them are not ever female. Again, i just don’t think we should be giving Disney credit for something they didn’t do. To me, this felt like Disney trying to get rainbow money. They made a big big deal out of Loki’s genderfluidity being a big win for representation during advertising and interviews for the show, but then didn’t make it relevant at all in the actual show, which is really shady imo. Hope I made my points clear, English is not my first language so I apologize for any mistakes! (love the Catra pfp btw
I’ve also seen Diary of a Future President, it has a closeted queer character who is falling in love with the new student. It also has a story of a lesbian trying to hide her relationship from her very traditional Mexican family.
this!! diary of a future president is so good and has actual canon queer rep! plus s2 is coming on august 18
@@olivia-ry5rk it is?!?! Omg! Yes! I’m so excited!
bold of you to assume genderfluid people can’t shapeshift 😼😼
Gonna pull a Joe Russo and insert myself into a movie so I can be Disney's next 1st gay character
In cruella, She asks how his flamboyant outfit went down on the streets and he says "Well, some abuse and insults of course but i like to think normal is the cruelest insult of them all." So, I'd say it is subtle while also being outright gay representation!
Old Loki literally said “That would be awful” when Loki mentionned a female Loki. The show literally acts like Loki's genderfluidity isn't a thing at all.
That's in the french dub btw, i didn't watch the episode in english.
Exactly! It pisses me off so much, also I'm pretty sure that it was a similar line in the English dub also
i think they said “that sounds terrifying” in the english dub
Wow, this came out a few days too early, Amity kissed Luz, in The Owl House.
Literally in my heart luz and amity are Disney’s first openly lgbt characters who aren’t written terribly, I don’t like Carlos and seb they’re gay stereotypes, amity and Luz are characters who just happen to be lgbt and that’s what I love
I think Luca is a queer story at its core with or without the two boys having a crush on each other. Because it’s all about hiding one’s identity and trying not to get discovered and then at the end acceptance. And there’s this line that goes something like “Not everyone’s gonna like us for who we are and that’s sad but there are people in this world who do, and that’s what’s important.”
Doesn’t get much more queer than that.
And at the end of the day those boys are still kids. Figuring things out. I think if there was a sequel where they were in their teenage years, Pixar could explore a romantic relationship between the two. Like it wouldn’t be something unbelievable. But since this movie is about two kids I’m okay with them keeping it a really close friendship. Especially since the movie has queer motifs in a different way.
Loki is actually genderfluid in mythology (and in comics as well), he literally has given birth to a horse
NOOO NOT THE HORSE 😭😭😭
More than just genderfluid XD
I- logging off RUclips at the moment
you didn't have to say this you know...
edit: wait, wait, wait, so they showed loki giving birth to a horse in a comic? that is... concerning
@@captain_chubbs5514 in comic idk, but in the actual mythology Loki gave birth to the spider horse Sleipnir, who later is the Odin's horse (english is not my first language, so my bad)
In the endgame one: he said he went to a date. I would put it in technically representation.
"Date" can be used in a non-romantic context, ie. play date, study date. Maybe it's more common among women, but I've used "date" to describe 2 person gatherings all the time.
Technically yeah, but it's with a throwaway background character with absolutely no consequence to the story. He never shows up again. All he did was talk about it and it was never shown onscreen. We don't need an inconsequential gay character played by a straight man who is onscreen for like two minutes, we need actual main characters who's sexualities are shown not just told.
In Raya, people think its gay bc the protagonist Raya and antagonist Namaari call each other dep la meaning strangely beautiful throughout the movie, as well as in most conversations between them they see to be literally FLIRTING. Also considering certain actions (like not killing each other) and simply other visibly gay interactions and dialogues.
I was starting to like Loki. But when they showed the female loki, I forgot her name, as a love interest... Idk how to feel about it. It's one of the shows that just doesn't need romance. Plus SHE IS LITERALY HIM WTH.
I TOTALLY AGREE. i think that loki and sylvie would work so much better as two friends who kick ass around the galaxy/timeline.
i think they have the same parents, just from other universes...but they still are also loki parents..uhm
loki’s made me so mad. loki is supposed to be actually bi and genderfluid but they just gave a throwaway line and something in the credits and then turned around and made loki in love with a cis female version of himself AND had a line about how the loki’s would find being a woman gross and that they’ve never seen another loki variant. yeah the show’s so bad.
Another thing about Loki's reveal that pisses me off is that he is supposed to be pansexual. Now don't get me wrong as a bi person myself I know we need more bisexual representation in media but that should not come at the expense of erasing pansexuality. Also Loki is supposed to be genderfluid beyond just his shape-shifting abilities. In the comics the character has a female and a nonbinary form and goes by she/her and they/them pronouns. It not just Loki taking the visage of another person entirely but actually Loki identifying as a different gender. It's not great representation but better than what the MCU did which lost any nuance the genderfluidity of the comic character had. Plus as far as I can tell (which I haven't watched the show so I could be wrong) they completely erased young Loki being nonbinary so good job Disney you successfully let me down again.
Fully forgot loki wasn’t already confirmed bisexual in ragnarok
What did he say/do? I don't remember a lot of him from that movie after watching the new show
I just assumed he and the grandmaster were a thing? Like it seemed clear that they had gotten together or at least Loki had a huge crush?
@@ghostofcallisto5328 Ohhh I see what you mean. Yeah there was something going on between them for sure now that you mention it.
@@bandkid3529 yeah that and once i went to an insta live where someone asked taika waititi why (not if) loki Did the grandmaster and he said something along the lines of "I mean hey. Things happen." So i guess that interaction just like inserted itself into the actual film in my head
Everyone: wanting a gay character in the MCU
Joe Russo: *fine, I'll do it myself*
Clyde’s parents from the loud house, they’re an openly gay couple! Clyde parents appear in a lot of episodes and even have their own. They’re also interracial .
Yes, but the loud house is from nickelodeon
I feel like the Loki argument for the genderfluidity is weird. Like, he IS genderfluid since he can change into different genders. The other Lokis dont have this power, thats why they might not be genderfluid and just male or female. I dont necessarily think of it as baiting but I am not to say honestly since i am not genderfluid, so I cant speak for the community
the rep of his genderfluidity isn’t amazing in the comics, but it’s a big step up from the sad excuse for rep in the series ^^’
The problem is that they force Loki into the gender binary regardless of what they say his gender is. So they can get representation but still have a character that reads as male to the viewer. In the series they also make a big deal about him having a "female" variant, once again forcing her to read as a cis woman. Instead of doing that they could show the character as being comfortable in many presentations or even have a few mentions of it in dialouge, maybe even using gender neutral pronouns occasionally. Im also not genderfluid but I would really like to see more direct representation for all LGBTQ people.
@@FriendOfMara ohhhh ok I get it. I thought, even if they say he is genderfluid, presenting as male is valid because there is a lot of genderfluid people that feel more attachment to one gender than the other (same as him being bisexual he can still prefer woman over men) but I get what you are saying. Yeah he is not very good representation but ig at least its something.
@@priscilalopez8957 Yeah it is something and if people are happy about it I am absolutely stoked for them! I just think disney shouldn't pretend they are SOOO GrEAt over it lol. :)
I don’t think Luca is queer baiting or had made any indication to promise LGBT+ representation, however the “coming out” scene and the ostracization from his family and the townspeople can definitely be seen as a queer allegory.
There doesn’t have to be anything romantic about the boys at all. And it really isn’t that important anyway. But the story plays out the same way two closeted gay FRIENDS would.
It would be hard to convince me that this movie is compatible with any other real-life scenario.
“is the demon from it follows a genderfluid icon?” obsessed with this line
I disagree about Luca. The director said that they were platonic because he wanted to tell a story about childhood friendship “before girlfriends or BOYFRIENDS came in to complicate things”. That statement is leaving the door wide open. Also it wasn’t just the close friendship it was that they used classic tropes from many romantic films with in the story, none of which I’ll spoil here, AND they released the film in the middle of pride month… like I’m supposed to believe that was all accidental? No. Sorry. Nothing in these projects are accidental with how much planning and work goes into an animated project like this.
However, I will say, I’m not mad about it. It can be both and they’re kids. To me it’s just a story about two friends who might be dealing with their first crush without even realizing it quite yet. I really loved Luca.
@@creatingpulsars9979 i agree lol
HAHA EP 5 S2 OWL HOUSE IS OUT AND AMITY KISSED LUZ ON THE CHEEK. ALSO WAS A TON OF BLUSHING BETWEEN THEM WHICH MADE ME DIE FROM CUTENESS
I, a queer person, saw Luca and a can't say that I didn't interpreted it as a queer metaphor, between Luca and Alberto there where some moments usually used in romantic movies and kinda cliché, but ultimately, they are kids that don't really think in romance at that age so I just saw them and Giulia really cute, what I did see as something that people can freely interpret as a queer metaphor is the whole fish thing, some people saw the fish thing as underdogs, but they literally hide who they are in public, can pass with the status quo(human(straight)), are okay being themselves between them and are scare to tell other people because is life threatening, I don't really can thing to many underdogs storylines that can match those in Luca besides being queer, I mean, I can be wrong, but it's just too much.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up LeFou in the live action Beauty and the Beast: that was hyped as having the first gay scene (or something like that) and it was just, like, he slow dances with a dude at the end or something.
The reason I think Alberto is probably the tiniest bit gay at least (anyone can believe what they believe, I'm a pansexual child and this is my interpretation) isn't because they are best friends. Alberto gets jealous to the point he risks his life, honestly. I agree it could just be a friendship but the way he acts just feels like his feelings may be a little more than friendship. And my mind told me while I was watching the movie, "It would be nice if Alberto and Luca were the ship but its there's a ship it's probably going to be Giulia and Luca because they're a girl and a boy who are close. My heart can hope." So yeah
Tbh I feel like Loki being pretty much officially bi shouldn’t have been given that much more attention in the show because it wasn’t plot relevant or something that the character finds relevant in the moment… it only comes up because he is discussing romance with Sylvie. If they had something between him and another guy then I could see it coming up again but in the context of the show, looking at what his character has been through and is fighting for, why would it be relevant beyond that conversation?! Like cool that it’s confirmed in the mcu because now we know, but honestly I’m just glad that they didn’t do what far too many writers do and make it his personality all of a sudden or only include it so that the character’s personal arc could only revolve around their sexuality. It just doesn’t make sense for the show and I’m glad that we could have a bi character whose whole arc isn’t just that they are bi… we don’t expect this from straight characters and I feel like it’s pandering to give it more attention in this context.
While watching the show I didn't even catch him saying it, so it's not really good enough for me. I agree that him being Bi is just a fact that exists, and isn't super relevant to the plot, but we need representation desperately and Marvel has such a wide audience that if they made it outright impossible for homophobes to ignore Loki's sexuality and gender, it could really, really help the queer community. The discrimination and oppression we face every day is disgusting. I can't live the rest of my life being treated this way. Loki isn't the first show to do this and probably won't be the last. It's not a breakthrough in any way, 'oh this character is this sexuality but we will never show it onscreen because that is disgusting and we don't condone it' happens way, way too often and we have to stop going along with it or it's never going to stop.
It's not queerbaiting if the character literally says they're bisexual. As a fellow bi person, I loved seeing Loki and Sylvie come out. We basically never get representation.
it's hard to call a couple lines of dialogue with no video evidence as representation in a tv/film. I didn't even hear him say it when I was watching the show, it went right over my head and I found out through instagram. It's not enough, and the only people who really care are those already in the queer community. The conversation itself felt natural when I went back to rewatch that scene but it doesn't deserve to be praised. We deserve better
Loki is also genderfluid in the comics. He’s referenced as such multiple times. His father says “My son, and my daughter and my child who is both.” When speaking to Thor, Hela, and Loki. Loki himself also says it blatantly in the comics.
The people actually working on the show have to fight just to get a single word on a piece of paper for a single second, because Disney is so scared of losing a fraction of their profits. Loki in the MCU has been canonically genderfluid for forever.
- Sincerely, a genderfluid person 💕
I see Luca as a gay film not because of Luca and Alberto, but because of the metaphors laced through with the whole sea monster things. It's really relatable.
What kinda pissed me off is in the Philippines they censored the photo showing Willow had two dads
I would like to mention that even though Luca and Alberto’s relationship was a friendship, the whole thing where sea monsters were not accepted felt very similar to how gay people aren’t fully accepted. I think that fuels the fire of people thinking the two are gay.
I mostly agree with your analysis of the Raya one, but I definitely disagree about there being gay subtext -- like she and Namaari were obviously into each other u know 👀👀(and Namaari is one of the most queer-coded characters I have ever seen) Also I love this video and the other one!!! Just subscribed :)
I literally just finished watching the video from a year ago and then this came out, talk about perfect timing 😂
Same 😂
If y'all have seen the fifth episode of The Owl House you know how gay it gets
Help Luca is the gayest thing I've ever seen from Disney this year and I'm gay
BUT I see it more in platonic/crush way, like they're don't have idea of they like each other but when they grow up they could be the cutest gay couple ever 😭☝️
Yes!
Loki’s situation is not necessarily the same thing as someone like let’s say Double Trouble. Double trouble has always used they them pronouns, and their main form is very androgynous (androgyny does not mean non-binary but I feel you get what I am saying) Also they are voiced by a nb person. Loki however seems to just be someone who changes and it does not really have anything to do with how he actually feels in his gender.
Honestly Lus and Amity are soo cute the only thing I want is for them to get together in a timely manner so they can stay together for the rest of the show. Though that's probably wishful thinking as they probably will get together at the last minute of the series.
The reason I think Luca is gay is the way that Alberto got so ducking jealous when Luca started being friends w Julia. + the trailer was VERY much made to look like cmbyn which we will not discuss bc that book was a dumpster fire
that's what I thought too!
You can be a jealous friend and not having feelings for that person. Jealousy isn’t just tied to romantic feelings.
@@taylorboney1089 while that is true and a very good point it makes sense both ways which is kinda nice, i wish they made is at least a lil fruity but its still a good marketing technique so the gays see what they wanna see and the straights see what they wanna ser
@@taylorboney1089 ofc. But to me it seemed romantic
Rip I'm bi and genderfluid and I got baited twice. Still love the show but yeah, I didn't know Loki was genderfluid until a friend who actively reads the comics told me. Ngl it'd be really cool if we saw Loki shapeshift a bit more to fit that if they were gonna use the "fluidity" literally. At least that's what I would do.
I was really hoping the female Loki would be our Loki shapeshifting to be more comfortable every now and again. The show really, really disappointed me and comes across as really transphobic to me :(
You should do this with Netflix also but only the Netflix originals
You know how many lgbtq+ characters there are in shera and the princess of power. That show probably have enough charters to fill a whole list
@@kurapikasmiddlefinger2674 You are so right
the dragon prince would be top tier, no questions asked.
Russo's character's first line was "I went on a date the other day." It wasn't ambiguous. I'm not saying it gave the gays what we wanted, but it does seem to be more like somewhere between ambiguously queer and technically representation.
He's definitely, undeniably gay, but I don't think i'd call it representation by any means.
I loved luka I thought both of them were queer and wanted them to be just because I connected to the movie so much I also think lgbtq representation for kids is important I wish there was more since growing up I was so confused because I never saw anything queer I think he had a point in the toxic masculinity because just because a boy is showing emotions and having friendship doesn’t mean they are queer I actually thought they were queer because of Alberto being jealous I was like that with my first same sex crush at the time she was my friend. Idk why I made this so long
Queer coding historically was also used by s lot of queer film makers to give some kind of representation. I'm talking pre 1950/60s. Don't get me wrong it led to a lot of awful representation but this was also because in the states it was actually illegal to depict gay men. Now? It's just lazy stereotyping without the representation as you say.
The characters in runaways would be way too young to actually get married. The wedding thing was pretty central to the plot (not able to be censored) and was really cute, with the two girls each imagining their dream wedding.
"It's great to finally see the superhero community get some representation"
PLS IM GONE ✋😭
AMITY KISSED LUZ ON THE CHEEK IN THE NEWEST EPISODE!!!
In regards to Raya, like it’s very similar to Luca that it could be read that way, and apparently the actress thought it was so easy to be read as such, that she chose to purposefully play the role under that head canon. I mean it’s not representation. Like it isn’t.. but it’s really nice that so many people can identify with this princess, and that the actress herself is super supportive of it.
Ok but the reason that people consider Loki genderfluid is actually because in original Norse mythology their were times where Loki would refer to themself as a female and make others as well, and times as a male.
Yea that's why the show is so disappointing
I though the screenshot of Loki’s sex said “pelvis” XDDD
Same it was so blurry😂
That face y made when u said “ iv seen the way he looks at Ricky, he don’t look at ashlyn like that” I never even thought of that 😂
The gay couple on hsmtmts are a bit stereotyped ngl, their always happy all the time it’s like their immune to being sad or something their not portrayed that deeply like the other characters
I guess disney is trying to avoid the old trope of gay people suffering all the time. But yeah, their relationship is cute but not too deep on screen.
@@hamu08 I havnt really seen any show that shows gay couple suffering
@@zainabalzangana238 that’s so good! But it is a huge stereotype that exists in lots of shows,most have the parents be super unaccepting and makes the gay characters really sad, that happens irl of course but it’s overused at this point.
@@flamebunny6511 I havnt seen like ANY show that’s like that but ur probably right, but all the ones iv watched are so accepting and pictures dust and rainbows and stuff it’s not realistic, they make gay their only character trait sometimes, but the owl house handles that amazingly
@@zainabalzangana238 I heard the owl house is a great show!
For Raya, it's not just that the actress said she portrayed her as queer, the character's relationship with her ex best friend / rival is EXTREMELY gay and filled with sexual tension (literally bad breakup vibes but then SPOILERS by the end they reconcile and it's so so sweet) so the fact that Raya's actress said she played it straight (kek) Raya being in love with her in mind is pretty damn poggers 2 me.
I know a lot of ppl shit on Raya or say it was boring or lame so I'm just >( since for me it was my favorite thing Disney has put out in a long time. Especially the timing, it's a story about different people who have all been hurt by capitalism-induced-global-warming-pandemic-- I mean global cataclysm learning to put aside their differences and work together against self interest and during Covid when the reality was...very much Not That it just felt nice to believe that there are still people willing to reach out a hand and take a chance believing in someone else... It was same vibe as "friendship is magic" but a lot more nuanced and mature and I love that
The world building was really fun too each country was so unique and colorful and lushly designed plus the action scenes were really fun and well-directed (action is much easier to do in animation imo).
So it really was just icing on the cake that Raya was gay af
Raya straight up called Nemuri "Princess undercut" and that's pretty gay.
@@ElizabethMidfordHatesCops my dad once described the hair cut she has as "The lesbian hair cut" and I love it
About Luca, I know that the creator didn't do the movie with the intention of it being queer, but a movie is art, and art has different interpretations, and in art every interpretation is correct because it depends in the eye of the viewer, maybe some queers saw themselves in the movie and that's awesome, but people can't go around bullying everyone who has a different interpretation of the movie, I've seen people online literally insult other people for disagreeing with them and saying that the movie isn't queer, I personally do see it as queer, but I think people should be more open about others' way of thinking
I don't think the cruella guy really gay; hes basically general 70s young man-
Literally my dad wore outfits like him and makeup in the 70s and hes straight, the only gay aspect about him is that the actor is gay
So is everyone just gonna forget the series once upon a time- its from 2011 and has had girls kiss quite a bit
I feel like Luca isnt queerbaiting but it def has queer themes like coming out and a homophobic town that grows to acceptence
In the most recent episode of the owl house, the character Amity kisses Luz on the cheek. I hope it will be in your sequel video!!
Actually Luca has so many Gay allegories you should check out Rowan Ellis video about it.
Like the entire sea monster thing and Luca’s parents being ‘homophobic’ towards him and sending him to a kinda conversion therapy thing. And then the entire town being ‘homophobic’ towards sea monsters and then the line in the end of the movie when Luca’s grandma says there will always be people who won’t accept him but he seems to find the good ones. And then just all of Alberto’s storyline is about finding a chosen family after his father abandoned him. And then him being jealous of Luca having another friend.
I didn’t know that wow
Everything but the last part you said is very convincing
Jealousy doesn’t always mean that you have romantic feelings for that person.
@@taylorboney1089 good point, guess I got carried away
i think Luca reads as queer to most people not only because of the close friendship between the main characters, but also because of the storyline of Luca not being accepted (for being a fish). his grandmother even says “not everyone will accept him, but he seems to find right people who will”, so that kind of also resonated with queer people
Putting Nico and Karolina on the "technically representation" was so homophobic
I mean MCU wise I can understand where you’re coming from, but Loki has been canonically genderfluid and bisexual in the comics for a pretty long time, and has been accurately represented in my opinion idk
Yeah the comics do quite a good job from what i've seen, but most MCU fans don't read the comics. The MCU already has characters and their stories to adapt so why are they doing a worse job of representation? It's really, really disappointing
They really said Loki was bi...before throwing him with his own counterpart/variant who happens to be female, cause....why not.
Also it should be noted for descendants, while it was cut from film, it was in the novel of the film, aka it being mentioned in the pirates celebration, Harry kisses Gil....very convient then hes suddenly flirting with every girl in sight in the next movie.
Luca also has the lesson of being understood by others, something we can all relate too.
I haven't watched Endgame since it came out, but I feel like I remember the Joe Russo character's anecdote starting with "I went on a date"?
Amity kissed luz uwu
Don’t know if you’ve seen Raya but her banter with Namaari really sounds like flirting
I thought they were sisters ☹️
@@wh00wie They’re not…
I don’t get why some people think only queer actors should play queer characters, like do you know what acting is?
Nothing to do with acting, but if a queer person is playing the role than a) it's lest likely to be stereotyped representation, b) you're supporting the people in your community, and c) makes sure that LGBT people are getting their roles, as they sometimes have a harder time getting noticed over big shot celebrities. 🙃
2 videos in one month? So generous of you
Ahhh I love seeing the owl house in this! Dana terrace did a really good job representing and making a masterpiece plot ❤️
I appreciate their thoughts on Luca. The film isn’t necessarily gay, it’s more like a metaphor. Yes I do like the idea that the two leads could like each other, but I also like the idea of them being super close friends. The movie is adorable either way. I wish people wouldn’t argue so much about it because at the end of the day everyone will interpret the film differently. Lots of respect for not putting it on the tier list.
I saw the trailer for Luca and assumed gay but I’m not disappointed that it’s not. I think it’s cool for Disney to show close male friends though.
i haven't seen "diary of a future president," but it WAS made by rachel bloom, and i trust her to do the best job she's allowed
i mean what did u expect, a whole musical about loki being bi, i prefer them just saying it in a normal conversation rather than forcing him to have a boyfriend or make out with some guy
also loki has been gender fluid ever since he existed, even before marvel was created
I think what makes people believe Luca is a "queer" movie, is the metaphor of "showing your true colors" the characters struggle cause they have to hide their real form from humans.
I truly appreciate your video as you are doing it right. Art is subjective and Head Canons need to be respected. I personally wish more of the community was like you as I have seen so many people take this and accuse Disney of gay baiting like they have in the past with Endgame and more reccently Raya and just getting pissy with anyone who dissagrees with how THEY see the character and not in a hateful manner, just like a "Oh, I don't really see them as that but that's cool." As someone in the LGBTQ+ I completely agree with calling out companies when they promise us representation and then its like a guy locks eyes with another man, boom! Gay!
I mean I respect the directors envisioning of this movie too though, I mean it truly was a retelling of his summer days with his friend Alberto (who actually came to the premiere.) And to him it wasn't anything but a friendship, but like when Stephen King was pressed on if he intended Reddie (Richie Tozier and Eddie Kaspbrak) as a Gay pairing he replied "I never really intended that, but if you see it that way, that's how it is to you." And for me that's not going to stop me shipping Richie and Eddie (I also deny that Eddie died in Chapter 2, nah he did that to get out of his lavender marriage) but I do agree people need to calm down on both sides of this. Are Alberto and Luca gay or Bi? Its up to you. Sadly fandoms are very disrespectful now a days and either bully others in the group or harass the creators.
We do need representation big time, but if some young Twitter gays go after the director and try and bully him into agreeing with our HC of Luca, its no better than these jerks bullying us saying "oh, your sexualizing kids."
People don't think Luca is gay because they're friends. We see as gay because being a sea monster is easily seen as a metaphor for being LGBTQ+. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. The whole town hates what they are and they keep it hidden. They run into situations that could out them and panic for their lives. Alberto gets jealous of Luca's new friend and "outs" himself to prove to Luca they would never be accepted. Many characters change their perspective of sea monsters after finding out. Massimo knows who they are and that them being sea monsters doesn't change anything. There's to old women who do everything together who also show that they've been sea monsters the whole time. And then there's the line near the end that Luca's Grandma says "Some people, they’ll never except him. But some will. And he seems to knock how to find the good ones". So no, we aren't seeing a friendship between boys and going "THAT'S GAY!" We're seeing a metaphor for queerness and going "Ah, so sea monsters are gay."