Atheist Experience 22.27 with Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- 16:25 John: FL: Asking Theists to After Show Dinner, Is Abortion a Moral Right?
38:45 John: Waynesboro, PA: Understanding Love and Science
43:50 John: Orlando, FL: Secular Morality, Abortion, Agnostic vs Atheist
57:05 Chase: Hungary: The Bible and the Oppression of Women
1:19:45 Dylan: Chicago, IL: Coming Out Atheist to Parents
1:29:00 Lucas: Davis, CA: What Arguments Would You Use if You Became Christian Again?
1:32:25 Amanda: Cheyenne, WY: Am I Being Misleading by Talking to Mormons?
1:46:00 Isaac: OK: Why the Gospels Were Written by Eyewitnesses
1:57:35 Jessi: Queens, NY: Atheism and Feminism
The Atheist Experience 22.27 July 8, 2018 with Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples.
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I miss these two hosts
Tracie, your points on 'autonomy' falls mute on that theist caller because he adheres to a book that totally supports violating bodies and especially female ones! Bravo to your valiant attempt to educate him! Love your mind!
Bravo TxRiverElf...
Well said. I learnt something from this broadcast also. Does not happen very often for me.
Never mind the book. The embryo is a human being. You engaged in an activity where it could begin to exist. The argument from autonomy is irrelevant. Why? Because you made it happen.
And the propagandistic language: Tracie 23:00 "The baby that is born is not violating someone else's body." Pregnancy is not violation. It is nature. A mother is not just "someone else". Also, right there Tracie is admitting that, the unborn baby, is a baby.
@@stupidtreehugger Disagree. Your *BuyBull* sez life begins with the first breath. But I guess this verse doesn't fit your misogynistic world view.
womens rights advocates should be all over the bible, it's a dreadful manual for inequality, and worse.
Her points on autonomy fall mute on many people theist or not. And frankly the idea that it is acceptable to kill someone trying to rape you is absurd. This episode moved from atheism to liberal bullshit.
Qué calidad de entrevistadoras, no gritan, no imponen ideas... conversan con la gente y especialmente ESCUCHAN... tratan a la gente con respeto y empatía. No me canso de verlas trabajando juntas.
These older videos are such a treat. Really great insight and conversations.
What a colossal cop-out by the first caller! Claiming that the Bible was just using hyperbole when it talked about genocide, as long as not ALL of them died it’s fine apparently.
the bible is a great way to cop out, it's a great way to tell people what they can and can't do while doing whatever you please yourself, as long as you don't get caught. it's about time we started pointing out that the bible is actually immoral, it allows anyone to anything as long as they call "god told me to". religion has got off too lightly.
to quote the caller: "if you take text out of context you get conned". Haha, which is EXACTLY what he was doing word by word and sentence by sentence, concept after concept. He deliberately tried to weasel out by referring to the ancient text, which he didn't have, and didn't read. I've read it, and it's even worse in the original archaic languages and times, it is absolute genocide that god demands to the letter. God is explicit in the text about wiping out the babies, and even doubles down on making sure of obliteration. God reads as a selfish, sadistic, void of Love prick in these passages, and I wish the caller would educate himself on the scripture. Peace ☮💜
i like matt. but it seems to me that when you two host the show there is more collaboration as hosts. a more united front, so to speak.
ruby T.....true!
1:01:30
Disagree. Tracie spoke the whole time and didn't let jen talk. She even says at one point that she's doing all the talking and is going to let jen answer the next one (which she immediately interrupts). Even in time stamp she literally finishes/tries to finish jen's sentence. Then jen is going to say something and she's interrupted and ignored. What about this episode would make you think they work well together
Agree
But sometimes, atheists having different viewpoints can be a valuable to theists who don't understand what 'atheist' means.
They tend to assume all atheists believe the same things, in the same way most Christians tend to assume that most Christians agree with them.
Yeah I think what always happens is the more loud host takes over and the other one just has fun laughing
These people really do struggle with the discussion on abortion. The default position is to leave people alone to make choices about their own body. A step further, what if that person in in the womb a human or has a soul, etc. It simply does not matter. You cannot force a woman to use her body as a conduit so that another human can live or thrive. Like she covers in a later video, parents are not morally or legally obligated to run into a burning building to save their child. Even if my belief, wholeheartedly, is that those babies deserve a chance, doing so requires that I do something that is objectively wrong. I don't want women deciding what I can and can't do with my body, and I sure as hell am not qualified to tell what they can do with theirs. At its core, understanding a woman's choice is about being humble and understanding or asking yourself: "Who am I to make this choice for them?"
What I think it boils down to is the modern politicization of abortion. If you can convince voters that abortion is always "baby murder" then you can use that to demonize your pro choice political opposition. You can generate A LOT of votes that way.
It creates an emotional knee-jerk reaction in people. It also deadens empathy; people refuse to mentally put themselves in the place of a woman with an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. They'd prefer to think "Baby murdering whore" than "That could be me, how would I want to be treated in that situation..."
I honestly think more men need to imagine themselves pregnant. (don't laugh!) _How would they want to be treated?_ Would they want to be viewed as a vessel, an incubator, a broodmare? Or would they want to be a human being with full bodily autonomy?
Has no one done a thought experiment before?
Do some men really believe women have abortions because they're simply baby murdering sluts?
Is it really hard to imagine the horror of rape and forced impregnation?
Or to imagine inescapable poverty where you are barely able to clothe and feed yourself? Where birthing another child would be irresponsible?
Can they not imagine being a drug addicted teenager, completely physically and mentally unready to provide for another human being?
Can they not imagine their own wife or girlfriend ready to welcome a child into the world, but whose pregnancy turns dangerous, and her doctor recommends an abortion as her life is at stake?
*Why would anyone want to force another human being to create and birth a child they do not want or cannot take care of?*
I do not understand how a forced pregnancy can be considered even remotely humane.
I just think that anyone (man or woman) has the ability to imagine themselves in a situation where they would want or need this medical procedure.
Then imagine walking to a clinic to have an abortion and some hateful protester spits in your face and calls you a murderer.
@@-cosmicrogue- I really like the way you stated it as it totally goes along to what I myself think of the issues without using ambiguous terms. So thank you very much for that, because just based on the hosts terminology I found myself wildly irritated thinking, "Yes I kind of agree with you but you are wording it in an overly emotional way that make it hard to take as serious as it should be"
I guess the reason why I was irritated by the discriptions of the hosts was the insistance on using the term "voilation". I am sure I would have had a much easier and less cringy time without it, I just noticed myself being very disagreable to the used term of "violation" where are more descriptive words that are less emotionally loaded on different levels especially when used in conjuction with rape, which is one of the definitions of violation. To me using "voilation" insinuates framing a biological function such as a child growing in a woman as a conscious decision based intent, which is plainly wrong on since the fetus has no decision to make whatsoever on how it influences the hosts body.
It might seem pedantic but choosing words in a way that make them as unambiguous as possible makes all the difference and what you wrote holds true without politicising (as you said it) the issue.
So thank you
well said.
@@-cosmicrogue- beautifully written. Thank you, if only more people thought as you do.
It can be said that the fetus is being "given" more rights than any living being. The fetus needs the woman's body to survive, just as I can't claim your "heart" and kill you just to support my survival. And no, I didn't ask to have a failing heart, but nobody has the extra human rights to demand one's survival over another. Just as you probably don't remember existing before you were conceived, the fetus will not remember before or after it's miscarried or aborted. Also if the "rights" of not being murdered are given to a fetus, then anybody who miscarries multiple times is a serial killer. Miscarriage is simply attributed to diet and setting, which a married couple has full control over. Ignorance is bliss? You cannot defend murder by ignorance. The "morning after pill" could be considered a dietary change, and after all the same technique was prescribed by Yaweh in the bible to abort a specific child for his own selfish reasons. Peace ☮💜
(I really have to add, as a human that loves everything in this universe, I really hate that I felt the need to lay out the above words/concepts, so please just think of these thoughts to yourself if you've read this far.)
First 2 Johns were dense as rocks and douchy to boot.
The Chase call was interesting. It's good to hear about various male female reproductive dynamics and the reasons behind them. If you hear nothing else, listen to Chase's call.
33melonpaws77 John 1 and 2
Check out the book "Alpha God" by Hector Garcia. Great explanation of why most monotheistic gods are defined as Male.
Great show. These ladies deliver!
Really good program this episode.
to make Jen laugh like that you'd have to be really special.
I get into a car knowing I might get into an accident. That doesn't mean I consent to getting into an accident. Same applies with having sex knowing someone could get pregnant. Tired of people saying I knew it could happen, therefore I consented to it.
John - Waynesboro. Marrying for love is a new thing. Last 200 years at best. Before this 95% of marriages were arranged. It had nothing to do with love. Get your head out of the 21 st century John. Most men were farmers and they needed lots of sons to tend the farm. Go learn some history John.
I would like to know what John from FL meant when he said that after God called for the "annihilation" of the Canaanites, and then a few verses later the bible talked about remarrying/non remarrying them. Deuteronomy 20 says: 16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the Lord your God has commanded you.
That pretty much explains annihilate means kill. In Deuteronomy 21 there are passages about marrying CAPTIVES.
Glen Hill..
True, but you will never be appreciated for it...
Sadly
to quote the caller: "if you take text out of context you get conned". Haha, which is EXACTLY what he was doing word by word and sentence by sentence, concept after concept. He deliberately tried to weasel out by referring to the ancient text, which he didn't have, and didn't read. I've read it, and it's even worse in the original archaic languages and times, it is absolute genocide that god demands to the letter. God is explicit in the text about wiping out the babies, and even doubles down on making sure of obliteration. God reads as a selfish, sadistic, void of Love prick in these passages, and I wish the caller would educate himself on the scripture. Peace ☮💜
One last thing -- THEISTS, YOU CANNOT CHALLENGE US ON MORALITY! YOUR RELIGION DOES NOT PROVIDE MORALITY! IT SHREDS IT THROUGH HYPOCRISY!
Tracy is just as intelligent as Matt, possibly even more so, just without the anger.
As much as I like Jen, Jeff and all the others as they each bring their own unique perspectives, the best shows are the ones where Tracy and Matt get together and kick ass
wow, mighty John has nothing against "that"! Bravo to Jen and Tracie.
Dylan: “You know?”
The argument that John in Florida makes about abortion is frustrating to hear. Seems he doesn't understand the "bodily violation" point about unwanted pregnancies. Well yesterday the following was on a friend's news feed, and I had to pass this along. John, if you're still out there, have a read:
“Last night, I was in a debate about these new abortion laws being passed in red states. My son stepped in with this comment which was a show stopper. One of the best explanations I have read:
‘Reasonable people can disagree about when a zygote becomes a "human life" - that's a philosophical question. However, regardless of whether or not one believes a fetus is ethically equivalent to an adult, it doesn't obligate a mother to sacrifice her body autonomy for another, innocent or not.
Body autonomy is a critical component of the right to privacy protected by the Constitution, as decided in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965), McFall v. Shimp (1978), and of course Roe v. Wade (1973). Consider a scenario where you are a perfect bone marrow match for a child with severe aplastic anemia; no other person on earth is a close enough match to save the child's life, and the child will certainly die without a bone marrow transplant from you. If you decided that you did not want to donate your marrow to save the child, for whatever reason, the state cannot demand the use of any part of your body for something to which you do not consent. It doesn't matter if the procedure required to complete the donation is trivial, or if the rationale for refusing is flimsy and arbitrary, or if the procedure is the only hope the child has to survive, or if the child is a genius or a saint or anything else - the decision to donate must be voluntary to be constitutional. This right is even extended to a person's body after they die; if they did not voluntarily commit to donate their organs while alive, their organs cannot be harvested after death, regardless of how useless those organs are to the deceased or many lives they would save. That's the law.
Use of a woman's uterus to save a life is no different from use of her bone marrow to save a life - it must be offered voluntarily. By all means, profess your belief that providing one's uterus to save the child is morally just, and refusing is morally wrong. That is a defensible philosophical position, regardless of who agrees and who disagrees. But legally, it must be the woman's choice to carry out the pregnancy. She may choose to carry the baby to term. She may choose not to. Either decision could be made for all the right reasons, all the wrong reasons, or anything in between. But it must be her choice, and protecting the right of body autonomy means the law is on her side. Supporting that precedent is what being pro-choice means.’”
The call with Isaac was extremely entertaining XD
When I hear "We know bla,bla,bla .." I roll my eyes and get angry. Newest results of the research say around 200 Christians perished during the persecution of Christians. Whether those apostles like Paul were among them is NOT proven! The "Martyrs Movement" invented many things to justify/fundamentalize Christian faith.
Lmao John (the second John was high) lmao
Ikr he had to be to sound like that X )
Nah, just very slow, or he's had one too many concussions.
John’s brain is too smooth for this topic
I drank liquor from age fifteen to twenty-five, then I just stopped, by myself. I'm seventy-four now. I have never missed alcohol at all. I quit tobacco the same way. But I'm an eccentric loner, that must have helped.
Can you imagine the AXP talk show on the air back in the fifties?
I was drinking too much for a long time. 7-8 bottles of wine a day at least. Seriously. The police took me in after a neighbour called seeing me chug 3 bottles inside 15 minutes or so. They let me go after taking me to the station and several of them saying I was obviously completely sober. Later I checked into detox that included AA. They couldnt control my diabetes as I did even drunk and I ended up in the hospital. They refused to give me more insulin even though my sugars were off consistently for a week or so and when I insisted they kicked me out. I quit cold turkey after a bit.
Ya, I'm an atheist. I also had a really bad substance problem that started in college and followed me after. At one point I realized that I was in over my head. I lost my best friend and knew I'd follow her if I couldn't stop.
So I went to find help. BUT- I live around the Akron/Cleveland area. Which is the birth place of AA. 99% of the sober houses and treatment centers are openly and blatently religious. Like you can't stay in this sober house unless you attend daily meetings and bible studies daily with church on Sunday religious.
When I explained I was an atheist they told me I was going to end up dead or in jail. I remember SOBBING in car after being turned away because I knew I needed help and I had no idea how to get it. Even if I wanted to fake it that would've worked.
So I kept using until I hit rock bottom and realized that I wanted to live and that I was worth fighting for.
So ironically I turned to SCIENCE. I have a BA in psychology so I used it. I got into therapy. I found an outpatient program that was somewhat religious but was mostly psychology based. I got on medications to stop cravings and get my mental health under control. I started dealing with my trauma. I voluenteered to give back to the community.
I TOOK CONTROL. I wasn't perfect, I slipped up again before I got it figured out, but that's normal. I have one meeting I attend occansionally, they aren't technically AA but I'm the only atheist/non 12 Stepper lol.
It's hard. There are some meetings that aren't faith based, but all we did in them was b^tch about 12 Step lol. I still have people tell me I'm doomed despite several years of soberity under my belt.
But here's my thing- AA not only did NOT help me, it almost KILLED ME. It is not a magic band aid that fixes addiction. Like ALL of the active addicts I knew were believers during their addiction. It's not like they got 'saved' then were cured. They were ALWAYS religious. They only got better when (like me) they decided too.
I also have a huge problem with the whole 'helpless' attitude. Like you can't help yourself ONLY god can help you. So all your hard work getting sober and changing your life is attributed to god. But if you screw up or relaypse, then it's YOUR FAULT. Anything good in your life is god, but anything bad is on you.
Which sucks because getting sober is HARD. The hardest thing I've ever done no question. So it takes away your pride in your hard work and puts it on some nebulas thing that you are supposed to give all your power away to. But personally I needed to TAKE MY POWER BACK. When I was addicted I gave all my power and pride away and taking that back was such a big part of my journey. It feels so frustrating when I hear other addicts saying that 'god got them sober'. Like NO!!! YOU DID THAT!!! You put in the work to change your life- take some credit FFS!!!
Ya lol- anyway I agree. If I had tried to force myself into AA I'd be dead. For sure. It might work for some people. But in my experience people change when they are ready, not before.
How the hell did you afford it?
the verse from John says "what he saw"... if you are writing down what you said, you say "I saw this" or "this is what i saw"... you don't say "he"
AA: Makes you constantly visit a group of addicts, and makes you talk about getting wasted CONSTANTLY. It's like forcing a real life commercial down your throat every time you visit or talk with the group or even your partner which they make you have. It is a recipe for failure, and if you look at the statistics, only 1 person in 1000 will make it through that battle for 5 years, and if you make it for 5 years your chances of making it for 10 yrs. are 1 in 1000 of THOSE people. (1 in a million if you don't like doing math in your head)
The icing on the cake, is that AA teaches/forrces you to bow down and over and over make you admit that you are powerless. This point is so unhealthy it would ruin anybody without an addiction problem. The underlying tenets are extremely unhealthy for a functional constitution (a healthy outlook, a sane mind)
Gr8! Peace ☮💜
BTW: every hangover produces "micro seizures" if alcohol is not kept at the same level in the body. It can get to the level of "killing" the alcoholic simply going cold turkey. Take it from somebody who has gone through it at a rate of 8 bottles of 40% in a day. It can be lethal to just stop, and without medical aid, the only option is to taper off. Please educate yourself even if you only have one drink..
John is the most dense person in the world.
The first John, I mean.
@@euripidiesupman9755
Both
When we talk about "feeling" God? Isn't another feeling we can't explain "Love"? And if your really compare those two inside yourself? Isn't it very close, or even EXACTLY the same feeling? Personlly I've experienced both these "feelings" in different times while thinking God AND for another person, to the extreme point of my physical heart jumping out of my chest. Over my life, "Now" I don't confuse those definitions anymore, and I don't attribute Love to be some supernatural phenomena. It is simply the Love I experience to any degree for everything in this entire universe. My atheism now uncovers answers to serious physical dilemas, and I experience my heart jumping out of my chest all the time without fail. The knowledge one gains/uncovers over time gets exponentially greater as real questions get actual answers instead of settling for "magic did it". Life is wonderous and amazing, and I don't need a God to be the answer that stifles my yearning for knowledge and making life better and better day after day. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
I'd like to know that both Jen and Tracie are financially comfortable and regularly bathed in approbation.
Dan Lewis...thank you so much. If you are a man then...
I am soooo encouraged.....thank you!
@@vickicaravella6087 😂😂🤣
There is no such a thing as prolife, there is prochoice and antichoice!
I say this as a man that if men had to give birth the abortion rights thing would have been settled centuries ago!
I was drawing while listening and i may have drawn the handsomest jesus ever
yay comments
Dylan, : Y'know... Y'know... Y'know... Y'know... I don't know. Amanda: Like... Like... Like... Like... I don't know.
Every little action has a reaction ..
Lol. John #1. What a tool
I think Tracie is a typical female.
A FANTASTIC COMMUNICATOR!!
Now, I know not all females are good communicators, but most. Males have their strengths too but this is about females.
Gosh! I think she could have convinced me if I were these dudes.
If you want to improve your communication skills I suggest you stop referring to people as Females and Males. Just say women, men, or people, Woman, man, person.
Is their phone number written on the wall at the loony bin?
It was not just infant mortality that kept populations down in ancient times, you can't ignore the massive impact of our understanding
of _"modern germ theory"_ as a main reason for longer lifespans & larger populations today.
Read Engels "Family, State and Private Property". And "Dont Sleep, There are Snakes". (Author Dan ?).
I am amazed that AE gloss over or ignore the role of capitalism in religion...Divine right of kings, etc.
If you believe you can call a fetus murder, then you must first then persecute ALL marriages that kill off a fetus "due to a miscarriage". Because of circumstance, which includes simply diet and care: the miscarriage of a fetus must be considered a murder. More than likely your own mother would be a murderer under this judgement of moral decision. There is no difference between an actual abortion or an actual miscarriage. The "morning after pill" is simply a change in diet, it is logically the same thing.
People who condemn abortion don't play it out in what the real world actually is. If I were to admit "abortion is murder", then I must allagate most peoples mothers are serial murderers. I find this attitude absolutely disgusting. I love my mom, and to comdenm her as a serial murderer solely out of ignorance and innocence . My mother was an extremely beautiful person with an extreme innocence of education, and she loved all that she could possibly could have done. The anti-abortionist literally calls my angle of a mother a murder, and a serial killer at that.
Pro life gives more rights to a fetus, than anybody alive has in this moment, or any in history. (maybe more rights than their god)
God instructs abortion in the Bible, so think on that too. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
John sounds like The Nutty Professor.
Both
Only time Bible explicitly talks about abortion, is when it's describing when and how to perform it. Not once Bible says "Abortion is bad, do not do it."
I feel sorry for John's kids. He doesn't listen to anything they answer with. He starts giving his prethought responses before they are finished answering. His opinion on abortion is preventing him from comprehending anything the hosts say. It's really ridiculous. I guarantee that he hung up thinking that they said it's not a human being and that's why they believe in abortion.
Isaac is the all-time best caller. You couldn't make this up.
John is working *way* to hard to not understand that women have bodily autonomy.
He is working hard to understand lots of things...
well i GUESS that means you don't believe in a god! gotcha there!
isn't it weird that theists often say things like if god exists, its almost like they are not too sure
John....It's a good thing you don't listen to your voice because you would hate listening to this dialog destroy your argument over again.
John from waynsboroo. Quit with the word salad
Isaac is our nut, and he does not disappoint.
"Well I guess you don't believe in god then" 🤦♂️
Dan Everett....author of "Dont sleep there are Snakes".
1:07:45 example :when people fall into is-ought thinking and don't know anthropology...
I guess John is just five years old.
You would 100% care when the government comes at you for child support. It has nothing to do with being locked down or caring whether or not you're the father. It's such a dumb argument.
In the past marriage was just as transactional for Men as it was Women. It still is to this day. I know of people who have gotten married/divorced for insurance and tax reasons.
A fetus is NOT a human being.
Issac talking and the lady's shutting this fool down made me laugh out load
Jesus this first caller !! Mental gymnastics at show but itd be funny if it wasn’t over such a serious subject as womens autonomy
ha, fairy or god? I have a higher degree of confidence for god not existing compared to a fairy, because all my life has been plagued by theists and so many failed arguments to the contrary. The Bible alone has given me no end to failed logic and argument, and now apologists pushing a plethora more Faith only offers. I don't think I have 10,000 reasons about fairies, which doesn't touch the surface of the Abrahamic apology. Ironic, even though it's from the bronze/copper/stone age. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
Issac rambling and triggered in desperation
I get Dylan's problem.
I never told my family I'm an atheist. I'm open about it to everyone else, but, at this point, I think all I'd acomplish telling them this fact about me is to upset them. I don't deem it to be necessary. They're not zealots, they don't let religion into account when making life decisions, they're not contributing to priest's private jets... they just like god and going to church. And since I - unlike Dylan - don't live with them since I was 17, I'm not obliged to participate. They know I'm not a catholic anymore, and I'm skeptic about church tenants since 9, so they know I'm a little off for their taste.
But since they believe in this hell nonsense and like to pray for me, I feel telling them would just make them unnecessarily worry for my "soul", so I don't lecture them. I do, sometimes, talk about the importance of interpreting stuff by yourself and not letting people use religion to control you - and I have good basis for this position even from a theist perspective - but I mostly avoid the subject altogether.
I would like for them to break free from religion and see what freedom not being indoctrinated brings you, but I don't think I'm in a position to influence them in any way. So I keep it for myself and my friends. And the internet in general.
Que of many q. ( not star trek )
He's just not listening. He's reading some prewritten script. Awesome stupidity.
This is possibly the only thing I disagree with either of them on. While I agree women should have the right to choose. There is a point in which a fetus has no nervous system and point in which they do. In my view this is the deliminator. No nervous system/ Nervous system. The / should be the cutoff point. Cause if you're terminating a fetus just prior to the point where there autonomous by their definition the fetus is well past the point of being able to experience pain and agony. A woman understands the risk of pregnancy prior to the act of sex so it's their (both the male and female) to take preventative measures including condoms, birth control and even plan b (morning after) pill. Just my 2 cents. Otherwise I generally totally agree with them.
I've found the analogy of forced organ donation to be useful here. It's moral to donate a kidney, but we shouldn't force people to donate a kidney by force of law.
When 2 Mormon girls came by my house they were friendly so they started coming by sometimes twice a week. We talked a lot about their church which I already knew everything about. I had a girlfriend who converted from being a Catholic to being a mormon. I didn’t notice any changes in her behavior after her latest conversion. We had just as much premarital sex while she was Catholic as when she was Mormon. The only difference was I had to take off one more layer of her clothes. After becoming a Mormon she began wearing a drab brown colored full body underwear I had to get through. Other than that she was the same person. No holy ghosts were involved.
At the end of every meeting with the mormon girls they’d always ask me to lead them in prayer. So I always did. I knew prayers were bullshit, but I liked their company and their personalities. But while I was verbalizing one generic prayer, my mind was visualizing prayers to sleep with either or both of them. They were both so hot. But their god never granted me my secret prayer, nor the bullshit prayer I said aloud.
They continued to come by and we’d talk but that stopped after about 5 months. I guess the Mormon church has a quota system. They are limited in their attempts to convert to some unknown number of visits and once that limit is reached they move on to other people who might succumb to their BS religion.
Big fan of the Athiest Experience, agree with everything, but the idea of "vialating the body" just seems strange logic.. Pregnancy isn't happening on its own. The point is in my opinion, how long can you wait before aborting a pregnancy, bunch of 50 cells should not be something anybody is demonstrating about on aborting. 1 day before delivering, you can't say the baby is "violating" her body... bad baby! Being pregnant is a great responsibility, after a certain period your just commited. The whole point is when is it concidered commitment based on it's development. Before this point, it's not considered a person, and comparing removing a bunch of 50 cells compared to killing someone should be clear.
So Tracie is basically at the beginning saying Matt, please stop telling people to shut up.
A kind of "marriage" has already existed for around 5000 years, before and during that time there was sexual freedom for both sexes. Such marriages only made sense with rich people who only wanted to bequeath their inheritance to children who descended from them. The Greeks and Romans also knew a additionally concubinage, whereby sex with concubines, prostitutes and with slaves was normal. Institutional marriage has its origins in Judaism and became "normality" through Christianity from the 2nd century onwards, where a high priest or bishop legitimized the marriage.
Tracie, I think you were confusing the caller when you referred to the woman's body being violated by getting pregnant. If it was consensual sex and the woman got pregnant I don't think the right term is "violated." I think unwanted pregnancy is a better term.
Yea this is what I was seeing as well. The word violated, while not wrong doesn't appear to land on any of them.
@@RaveyDavey Word choice is all I was getting at. Nothing more. You aren't really hitting any marks with your word choices either. Just hoping we can help people hear the message is all.
I find the easiest analogy personally is organ donation. Do I have a right to your kidney if it will save my life? No. Your body is yours, you decide what happens to your organs I have no right to your body even to preserve my own.
@@RaveyDavey "Violation" maybe isn't the most effective word choice, but the sentiment is dead on, and I don't see how assigning responsibility to the mother matters. We don't deny people medical care when their conditions are "their fault" as a result of their lifestyle choices (smoking, drinking, etc.) instead of genetic/random.
@@RaveyDavey
Pregnancy is not a punishment for having sex. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.
The caller who speaks to Mormons made the same observation I did. The callers against abortion were men. Did the hosts try to argue that we shouldn't complain about that because some women are against abortion, too? That makes no sense if so. The caller was right. They were men. In my opinion, what right do they have at all to desire forcing women into being breeders? How would they feel if women could force something on their bodies? These 2 are my least favorite hosts.
Goddamn John is really thick skulled. It doesn't matter when a child is considered alive or when the first heartbeat is. If a woman gets raped or they accidently concieve, aka the condom broke , then she has a right to get rid of the pregnancy , 1. Because she shouldn't have to live with the result of her rape. 2. If the are too poor to care for a child and it would put a financial burden on them. If it's just one of those heat of the moment things where daddy didn't put a condom on and they both didn't take the necessary steps to avoid getting pregnant , then personally I believe the child should be allowed to live. Since it came about in a non harmful way
How a pregnancy occurs has no relevance. The ONLY issue is whether a woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body or not. Until that baby is out of her body, she should have full control, bar none, of what happens to it. I don't advocate abortion, I personally wouldn't want my wife to have one (but only because we are able to raise a child), but nobody should tell someone else what they can do with their own body.
I was sad to hear your commentary on AA. I’m an Atheist who’s been sober for 23 years with the help of AA. In fact all evidence points to the fact that I probably would’ve died without AA. I don’t know what your experience with AA is but, I can tell you that after going to thousands of meetings in many different states (and 2 other countries) that I’ve never attended a meeting where anyone stated that their recovery wasn’t their own responsibility and that the group and a higher power would handle that for you.
I was absolutely floored when I heard you say that!
Not expecting to hear the spread of misinformation on this platform.
I also wanted to mention that just about every rehab and detox center will recommend AA (or NA) after leaving their facility. So not only were you giving inaccurate advice, your advice was directly contradicting most professional medical advice
(Again, I didn’t expect to hear that here)
Now, I know the percentage of people who stay sober in AA might look bad on the surface but, if you dig a little deeper you might find that most people who go either have no intention of trying to stay sober (they’re sent by the court system or an ultimatum from a loved one)
I also tend to question the data (as most recovering alcoholics might not want to answer a survey or poll. There’s a reason “anonymous” is in the title. I can tell you that most people that I’ve seen who really take AA seriously, have tried quitting on their own countless times before coming to AA.
I realize that a belief in a higher power or God is a main part of AA but, I promise you there are more Atheists in AA than you’ll ever know and the program works fine without any spiritual belief system. The truth of the matter is that AA is just group therapy. The Magic is empathy and has little to do with god in my opinion.
Id hope that if you spoke on the subject again, you’d do your homework. Other than that I love the channel and your show. Keep up the good work
@@251rmartin I honestly can’t comment on this hypothetical program (not AA)
But, I will say that the sheer size of AA’s membership is very helpful. And I could care less what the other members use as a higher power. If this new program you speak of was smaller and less widespread then, no I wouldn’t prefer that
I’m not sure what any of this has to do with my comments
@@251rmartin The one thing I’m certain of is that I’m not there to change AA. AA was there as a tool to help me change. Although, I agree that it would’ve been more ideal as a purely secular program, that didn’t happen. I’ve seen other versions of the program pop up that have completely removed God or higher power from their literature and they operated almost completely identical to AA. It’s a good option for someone who has a major major problem with the faith aspects of the program but, none of those alternates ever seemed to really take off. I understand e what you’re saying about the danger of basing your recovery on the belief in God but, in my experience…..if someone wants to drink again, they’ll come up with any number of reasons to go back out. I’ve yet to hear “an anger with God” listed as one of them.
Most common reason for relapse is just leaving the program with a thought that they can handle it by themselves
Again, this is why I found this lady’s comments so disturbing
@@251rmartin agreed. My hope is that more energy (and money) would be invested in addiction recovery in the future. There’s always room for a better idea
@@251rmartin but, I have to say once again. AA has saved my life. It’s s very simple program that works incredibly well (for those who want it and are willing)
Equating being pro-life as being pro-genocide is the single most disturbing thing I have ever heard anyone say on the matter. It's also the most disturbing thing I have ever heard anyone say on this show, caller or host, in several dozen (at least) episodes.
As a species we long ago accepted that is all too frequently neccesary to end one human life for the benefit of another. The police are required to do so from time to time, warfare is a major example of this. There have been justifiable homicides. For me, abortion fits in this category. I simply see no possible, reasonable argument that when you've got a pair of gametes that have successfully swapped genetic data, that this is not a human being. That human being may well not survive, lots of things can cause that, but there's no getting round it, if you don't abort there's a good chance that human can live a full life, and if you do abort they absolutely will die. I feel that defining that human life as somehow NOT human is a required mental step to account for taking a position that abortion is not killing. Plenty of people who really want to do some killing take the same step. 'It's not murder - the things I want to kill aren't even human'.
Personally I would not wish to see a western world which made abortion illegal; A: I accept it can be needed. B: I know it'd happen anyway, and you're only going to add significant risk to the mother by doing so.
But to leap from 'I am not at all happy that you think it's just great to kill your baby' to 'I think it's a brilliant idea to murder thousands of people' is not just nauseating, it's unbelievably bad reasoning. That's exactly the kind of bullshit that theists phone with. 'Well, you don't accept Jesus, and Jesus brought morality, so I can't see why you don't just kill and rape all day.'
But it literally isn’t a person yet. It starts off as a cell and it starts growing into a person. The whole process of pregnancy is the process of turning a cell into a fully grown person. But if someone wants to stop that process before it gets too far, they should be able to because it’s happening within their own body and no one else really has a right to intervene.
@@Meccarox Repeating the same awful argument yet again isn't going to make it right.
You simply cannot get to your end point reasonably. If a bundle of cells is not a human but becomes one at some point, then you have to have a definite state of change between the two. You CANNOT get there. If A is not a human on tuesday but is a human on wednesday then what changed? What was the fundamental difference between being just some random meat that happens to be there and a person? You have to make an arbitrary decision and as there can be no definition, you must therefore end up killing humans at least in as far as you will end up in a fuzzy area.
To me this is simple - women want to be able to abort. In order to be able to do that without too much guilt you have to say it's not a baby, it's just spare meat. Because you have to do that you just pick whatever date you feel is most efficient and stick with that. At NO POINT in that process is there an ACTUAL determination or definition on what circumstances constitute the humanity of the subject.
If you actually care about human life, to me, the only reasonable position to take is that human life begins when MRNA sequencing concludes. That life may not get very far. It might not amount to all that much, but it is human life.
Tell you waht, go look up Lennat Nilsson's "inter-uterine" photographs. Then ask yourself how sure you are it's just a bunch of cells. You don't need come back to me or anyone else, you just see how hard it is to keep thinking that way.
Is that an emotional argument? Yes. You seem unwilling or incapable of generating a counter argument, though, so, what the hell? If all you did is say the equivalent of 'but the bibble says so' I'm gonna throw dead baby photos at you.
@@Belzediel
Fetuses can't survive outside the womb.
Babies can.
Fetuses aren't babies.
See, logically it makes sense. Can't abort a baby. Dilemma solved. Keep on coping.
I agree that a woman has a right to choose over her own body.
I don’t agree that a woman has a right to choose over another body.
Your DNA, your body.
Another DNA, another body.
@@4um360 Good thing that's not how it works.
Your arguments for abortion are stupid and easily refuted.
I’m an atheist though. So I would use logic, not the Bible.
So body autonomy is not relevant or important for you?🤔
@@AM-xr1hm
Ron is an atheist? Dontcha know lol
@@burningmisery 🤔🤔 how does that have anything to do with what I wrote? Did I mention anything about his god beliefs or asked if he had any?
Tracie talks waaaaay too much. Few times jen tries to talk tracie is finishing her sentences and cutting her off. Let jen talk ffs
Tracie, you are wrong in your argument about bodily autonomy. This comment is not the place to go into details but feel free to respond if you want to discuss
Nope. You are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Get some balls and call the show to discuss it. Unless you're scared.
I disagree with her use of the word violate when describing a pregnancy for the simple fact that pregnancy is a result of a choice (outside rape, incest, ect) and like the father legally consenting to parenthood for 18 years with consenting to sex, why is a woman not consenting to pregnancy also since it's been well known that sex causes pregnancy for thousands of years. Personally I agree with the autonomy outside the body idea like tracy described with roe v wade, and that we can/have come up a time when the baby has the rights to be protected as a person. BTW I also think that men should have the right to renounce fatherhood for the same amount of time that abortion is a legal option because if a woman has the right to choose parenthood well after sex is completed then a man should too and if the man does renounce, the woman then has the choice to either get an abortion or have the baby but not have the father forced to provide support or give the baby up for adoption. Also, the man should not have the right to force woman to have a baby if he wants to keep it and the woman doesn't, it's not 100%% fair and equal but that's the way the cookie crumbles when the woman is the one who's body is transformed during pregnancy.
Basically, keep things the way they are but expand more rights to the father to renounce fatherhood to more closely match the rights to choice about parenthood that a woman has after having consented to sex (doesn't apply to rape, if the woman chooses to keep, then that asshole rapist should be punished and forced to pay until the courts decide the child is no longer supported by the mother, i.e. after college or when the kid moves out on their own, and not just when the kid turns 18 like would normally be the case with a consenting sexual encounter).
Do you nearly have an idea how many times people have sex without getting pregnant?
It is quite a lot.
Saying that you are consenting into pregnancy when you are consenting into sex is like saying you are consenting into dying bcause you are driving a car.
There are also a lot of people that use contraception methods, but they are ailing. Is this a consent into pregnancies for you as well?
Also men aren't consenting into being fathers when the have sex. When they creating a child, and the women decides against an abortion, the men just have financial burdens with that, but they aren't forced to be fathers. They never ever have to see the child, or raise the child or be in any way a father to the child.
Doesn't matter. How a pregnancy occurs has no relevance. The ONLY issue is whether a woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body or not. Until that baby is out of her body, she should have full control, bar none, of what happens to it. I don't advocate abortion, I personally wouldn't want my wife to have one (but only because we are able to raise a child), but nobody should tell someone else what they can do with their own body.
The only disagreement i have with the show is that sometimes a caller will say something you guys disagree with. ACA wants to promote a positive atheist culture/community. So when Matt goes off on a theist caller that doesn’t paint a good picture. Yes its honest but its not positive atheist culture
Show isn't about promoting positive atheist culture. It is about asking people what they believe and why. And when they spew nonsense all day every day, you can't blame a guy for having enough of it and being rude to some theist spewing nonsense.
@veinsofmelody
Who gives a fuck what people think! Atheism is not a culture. If you cannot defend your views, stay silent and don't engage until you can.
It started in a bagel shop and now it is all about the gays.
Bahahaha!...good comment
@@vickicaravella6087 They should change the name to the gay experience. They recently banished someone because they want him to be more pro gay than he is. And this is supposed to be an atheist show?
@@jackgarand7284 sorry Jack....what is your point?
@@vickicaravella6087 I just meant that the show has gone from an atheist show to a pro gay show, even to the point of banishing a fellow atheist who is pro gay but not extremely pro gay.
@@jackgarand7284 yeah I saw that. Was that Stephen? I guess all programmes have their probs. Can't please everyone. But it is a great show, do you agree Jack?
So pregnancy is "being violated"? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
@Please Complete All Fields sorry, but consenting to sex is consent to the logical outcome of sex. I'm not saying abortion should be illegal, bit abortions for convince make you a scumbag.
Steven Walker the fetus is violating you. You did not consent to becoming pregnant, however it happened, and letting a being leech off of your body is not something you should be forced to do. State mandated pregnancies are a violation of autonomy, plain and simple
@@genessab plain and simply untrue.
Steven Walker how
@@genessab to violate you have to have intent. A fetus has none.
Jen is absolutely the worst. I've never seen anyone with such a lack of conviction of their own bad arguments. Tracie knocks it out of the park every time.
I have to say on the abortion debate..I have to agree with the caller. First time ever on this show I think i have agrees with the caller. Abortion is wrong. But not brcause of any God.
You can think that and that is fine, don't get one. But you have no right to tell someone else what they can do with their own body, period. Until that baby is born, the woman has the right to do what she wants.
Dr Cornrow, why is it wrong? You never said why or why we should care.
You would 100% care when the government comes at you for child support. It has nothing to do with being locked down or caring whether or not you're the father. It's such a dumb argument.
In the past marriage was just as transactional for Men as it was Women. It still is to this day. I know of people who have gotten married/divorced for insurance and tax reasons.