Great video and very well executed comparison! I have a few insights to share that may be helpful in matching settings more closely. Firstly, though I thought I'd mention that your link to the lossless files says that it's been deleted - as soon as you fix it, I'd love to check those out. :) 1) One key difference between the hardware and the plugin is that the plugin uses the documented range for the graphical EQ sliders, rather than the actual range we measured on several units. In general, the center 4 bands have about 3/4 less boost/cut range on the hardware than the documentation says they do, so if you're matching settings, that's something to keep in mind. Why did we go with the documented range instead, you might ask? Because it's important to us to have tools that provide intuitive user feedback and results that are predictable. That said, we may offer a "tolerance drift" feature in a future update to optionally emulate the drift and variation of various analog modeled components. 2) Tube selection can make a significant difference in the gain staging of the VT-747SP hardware. We modeled a modern, relatively clean set of tubes, but we plan to offer a "tube rolling" feature down the road to allow users to change the harmonic voicing of the plugin. 3) The gold standard of blind audio tests is ABX testing (which is impossible to do on RUclips itself, but possible if one has lossless files to download.) There's a free software tool here to conduct your own blind ABX tests lacinato.com/cm/software/othersoft/abx Again, awesome video and this was a very fun watch/listen! -Shane McFee 🤘
@KazrogPlugins Hi Shane! Thanks so much! That's all very helpful, and based on the considerations you were faced with, I think you made the right decisions in your approach to modeling the hardware. That explains why on the low bands, there was a lot less bass coming from the hardware (which I actually preferred). On the plugin, if I wasn't trying to match the hardware, I'm sure I would have just dialed in a little less bass. I really like the idea of adding a tolerance drift feature. That's something I haven't seen on other analog modeled plugins that I think would be really nice. I also like the idea of the tube rolling feature. In the manual for the hardware, it highly recommends only using the factory installed tubes. Would you just model new and old factory recommended tubes, or would you model other brands of tubes that work for the unit? I'm all about keeping things stock. My unit has the factory installed Sovtek 6922 tubes. As you can hear, they're still working great, but they'll probably be needing a replacement soon. Thanks for the heads-up on the broken download link. That has since been fixed and can be accessed at the link below. Please do download, compare and come back to this post to share your thoughts. On a side note, do you have any insight into the model name and if it had anything to do with the Boeing 747? It could help answer a burning question for myself and the viewer below.🙂 www.dropbox.com/sh/t5hixuehup7lf0e/AADAbgcltrlYq5wYs8sWtEnza?dl=0
You can enhance the user experience by integrating buttons that allow for the selection between the "theoretical" documented EQ range and the measured (real hardware) EQ range, positioned at the top left or right of the plugin UI. Additionally, include corresponding curves for the compressor. It is recommended to introduce a button that enables the switch between two distinct states, labeled as "Ideal" and "Real," or indicated by the enumeration of 1, 2, and 3, representing the theoretical and real hardware units, respectively. This functionality will provide users with the opportunity to visualize and effectively compare both scenarios. Not only does it offer a more practical method for users to explore the theoretical and real-world performance, but it also fosters a deeper understanding of the equipment's capabilities.
The EQ difference also accounts for the comments that the stereo field seemed narrowed, tweaking the highs a bit on the plug-in would take care of that nicely.
Applying stereo differences on an equalizer is not a good decision because if the equalizer is properly calibrated, there shouldn't be any stereo discrepancies.@@gettingstuffdoneright5332
Thanks for letting us hear them side by side. The Kazrog plug is amazing in it’s own right. After testing their free demo, it most certainly is on my “to buy list”. Hoping for a sale🤞🏻😊
Yeah man! It goes on sale often. It's actually on sale as we speak for $77 and that's the cheapest it's ever been offered at since it was announced at the 50% off intro pricing of $79 back on 8/19/23 - just to give you a point of reference.
Wow... They really , in my ears Nailed it...BTW, I love your approach to comparisons... A loop, in a groove, switching between at the point, not to hide it, but for those to notice... Also, They need to bring the Purple knob skin to the table........
Thanks so much for putting this video together, I found it very helpful and I appreciated the attention to detail in gain matching. The developer usefully comments on hardware EQ tolerance drift which would definitely play a role in the narrowed stereo field and loss of highs that some noted. Shane knows what he's doing, the upgrades planned are very cool, the plug-in sounds great and provides all the same productivity benefits of the hardware. (btw, Shane's plug-in "True Iron" is magic.)
@gettingstuffdoneright5332 You're welcome! Thank you for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts. Agreed 💯. I really like the plugin and if I didn't have the hardware sitting right here next to me, I would have definitely bought the plugin already. And yes, when it comes to Kazrog, it's all about KClip 3 and True Iron! I'm very happy to see them scoring the official license for the Avalon 747 though.
The VST comes close to the hardware, but the hardware sounds warmer and clearer than the VST. The stereo width is also better with the hardware. I think it will take a few more updates to really approach the hardware.
@@shevyjohn9308 It is mainly a matter of programming, and CPU power. If you really program all factors of a hardware, almost no difference should be heard. And then of course you need a very good sound card, because that's important too.
@@shevyjohn9308I agree. We have to remember that hardware audio still has to pass through converters that will also color the audio. There will never be a one to one from Plug-ins to hardware.
Finally sat down and listened through monitors. The hardware seems to have a bit more top end than the plugin which could be fixed by bringing up the top a little. Outside of that there wasn't a huge difference in tone. The fact that you can get basically there for like $150 when it's not on sale is friggin crazy! Shane did an incredible job on this and it will become an instant classic like all his other plugins
@kyronnewbury thanks for checking on your monitors and circling back to let us know what you thought. Agree 💯! Great plugin! Love the 32k high shelf band. I think it's worth it for that alone. Especially at the intro pricing.
@reboootlove5926 thanks so much! Yes. My goal is to do this with all popular hardware and analog plugin emulations to give people access to hear how rare and expensive hardware sounds and compares to the plugins. Thanks so much for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it. ✌🏼❤️
The difference seemed obvious, then I started closing my eyes. I realized the visual impact of seeing the beautiful hardware vs the tiny software gui was influencing what I thought I heard. They are pretty close!
@jetn8654 Oh yeah. Definitely. I'm glad you did that. That's why people like blind tests, but I figure if you want to do that, you could always just do what you did - close your eyes, click anywhere on the video and see if you can pick which is which. But only after learning what the hardware sounds like. That's what I don't like about blind tests. How are you suppose to be able to pick which is which when you've never heard the hardware before? 🙂 In blind tests, I always just end up picking whichever I prefer anyway. Sometimes it's the hardware, and sometimes it's the plugin! In any case, you should always use what you prefer and you can definitely get incredible mixes 100% in the box today. That's undeniable.
its pretty close and the people saying "Its so much worse" in one or other way, are crazy. I think Shane did a gret job. Its a cool hardware and the modelling is done well. I dont trust most of the people bashing it to tell them apart in a blind comparison. I think its very close. The hardware sounds a bit better in some instances, but just a tiny bit, talking few % at max. But closing my eyes, i didnt noticed when the switch was made except for 2 times and i still loved both sounds. im literally doing these kinds of videos not looking or eyes closed, and since then my bias towards "OG Hardware" became very weak on its legs. Sure, hardware is great for the extra push of a few percent, but tell me about all the people listening to music who care. ;) But tbh, i would be in denial as well, if i would be sitting on a ton of moneys worth of hardware and seeing this :) Great video and great job Kazrog. :)
@REMRODFILMS Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, support and encouragement. I will. I'm working on a music video for my debut rock record now, then back to the gear reviews starting with the new Rupert Neve Designs Master Bus Transformer!
Totally, maybe even 20% to me there was no comparison. The hardware has a cohesive life to it that sounds more musical and better on all settings, an actual mastering grade box whereas the plug-in easily took thing into a flat,kinda smeared sound.
@Kanavesimeloni You're welcome! So glad to hear you got the plugin and it's working out well for you. Feel free to share your music in the comments section on any one of my videos. We'd love to hear your work! Thanks again!
Trying to match the settings in a hardware vs plugin comparison is ridiculous, you dont set the gear by what you are seeing but by what you are hearing. there is always going to be a diference comparing any kind of equipoment, i think the intersting thing is to see how good can sound each equipoment even if the settings are different.
@spastor92 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. I don't structure my videos that way because I find I can get most any hardware plugin emulation to sound the same, or very close to the same as the hardware. If you'd like me to make a video on how I can get the plugin to sound the same as the hardware, I could certainly do that and everyone would be impressed by how closely I got the plugin to match the hardware. But in order for someone to do that at home, I'd have to lend them my ears. Like Kazrog themselves mentioned in a comment here, they made the choices they did when developing the plugin so that it could have predictable performance. That's more along the lines of what I'm testing here. Not how close I can get the plugin to sound to the hardware, but more how predictable it is to the hardware. For example, when I want to boost 24 dB of 32k like I do on the hardware, I want to know if the the plugin is going to sound the same as what I'm use to. Or if I want 1-2 dB of gain reduction from the compressor, does the plugin sound and react the same as what I'm use to with the hardware. Also, regardless of how the test is performed, videos like this give people access to hear how rare and expensive hardware sounds - something they may never have access to. That's the primary thing I want to do for people with these videos because for 30 years, I never had the means or access to gear like this and I always had to use the plugin emulations with no idea how the original hardware even sounded or how it compared in any way. I want to give people access to that.
@@LesVegasMusic, I think a section of the video where you show that the plugin CAN sound almost 1:1 the same with the proper settings would be valuable. Not that we'd have your ears, but we have ours! And if we trust them, we can know what is possible if we train our ears and tinker with confidence.
Thank you for a very good comparison since many of us don't have access to the hardware. Not level matched? Listen to wideness, boominess, punch, 'roominess' etc instead. The software is damn close but there is still this 2 percent thing, that makes a world of a difference. I use a lot of hardware in my setup but I love the emulation game ever since.
@amunahm3324 Yeah man! That's why it's so highly sought after. I actually really like the plugin. If I didn't have the hardware sitting right next to me, I'd definitely buy the plugin. I think it's excellent, I'd recommended it to anyone who asked.
Hardware has a bit more warmth and the sounds are a bit more forward and pops out a bit more. I think you can get the plugin version to sound indistinguishable from the hardware if you add True Iron to the chain. You will have to play with the settings of course.
Thank you very much for uploading this. I know this video was created to show how close you can get with a plugin, but all it's done for me is make me want to go and get the original hardware. I mean, I can see WHY Kazrog created the plugin, and it does have similar characteristics to the hardware, but my goodness, that hardware unit is just gorgeous sounding, as indeed it SHOULD for how much it costs!
The Reggae, Indy AND Dance tracks though did get much closer! I'm going to have to listen to this much more intensely and a few more times, but I am thinking now the plugin isn't as far away as I initially thought. When CD first came out, I spent years trying to alter the sound I'd get from Vinyl to match that of CD, but I think with The Kazrog Plugin and one or two others, I could get really close. It's the stereo field where I notice the difference the most. Thank you again for uploading this.. I do love a good conundrum or two!
@djGreenALERT You're welcome! Thank you for watching and for your comment. I know what you mean. It's a special piece. I forget where I learned about it exactly, but when I found out about it, it made so much sense to me since I could use it in the recording, mixing and mastering stages of the production process. I wish I knew why they discontinued it in 2018. I'm assuming it had something to do with parts and cost, but I'm just not sure. I'd love to find out one day though. It will be a piece of gear I keep forever. That and my pair of Millennia STT-1's. Another piece of equipment I can use for all stages of the production process. I tend to like gear like that best. It's a lot of dough, but I rather spend $3k on one thing that sounds amazing, then $1k on three things that sound pretty good and do the same job as one thing. That's just how I roll. Plus, I honestly like to do as much in the box as I can and use hardware only for the recording process or for broad strokes on the mix bus or during mastering.
@@LesVegasMusic it really was a pleasure to watch/ listen to this comparison video. Everything you've said about buying the best you can afford rings true for me as well. I mean, if you don't spend it on something you truly want, the money only goes on trivial things anyway. I don't know much about the Millennia STT-1s, only that it is another expensive bit of kit, but I think, like you, the two main reasons companies cease products is when sales go down, or the parts start to cost so much more that it becomes ineffective to sell.
Just using my Macbook Pro speakers I "feel" like I can detect a slight bit more clarity from the hardware..maybe in the 4.5 - 5k range? Some sort of slight glimmer. But it's minor and perhaps could be made even with an Eq adjustment? For $3000 vs under $100 that's pretty damn good!
Great video. Thank you, Les. In my 7506s, they sound pretty darn close. Biggest difference I caught was the mid-range on the plug sounds more subdues/slightly sucked in. The hardware midrange is almost always the hi-light of the program content you shared. (by the way, you guys sound great, thanks for sharing). The midrange attenuation is huge! When you get the mids right, the other two are far easier to balance . -mg!
@MGtheVisionary3030 Thank you! I agree 💯 about the midrange. If you focus on the vocal and how the hardware almost protects everything in the midrange, that's the biggest difference to me because you can dial in the EQ to match if you want, but there's no control to hug the mid range like the hardware does and as you mentioned, the mid range is where it's at! Although, everyone likes a well dialed in bottom and sparkly top end as well don't we?! The 747 hardware or plugin is great for that.
Hardware sounds very good and thinking there’s a bit more tinkering with settings required to get the software closer. But its a great plugin. Also wondering if running the plugin through some real analogue tubes post might bring it closer. Thanks for the video. Great channel!
Great Video Les.... I have a few 747s but an glad We made the Plug in cause it is so very useful on busses and single channels.... this is one of the best Vid I have seen so Far.. I am a 30 year Avalon user Long Time Pal of Wyn and I am stoked we captured the sheen and vibes of this magical unit...I use Mullard 6DJ8 a 6922 variant as Shane mentioned we will be offering some really cool tube rolling variations from y crazy vintage tube collection.. Great video and very well executed comparison!,,, all best Devin Powers - Product Partner Kazrog
@powersmusicgroup Thanks so much Devin! The plugin came out excellent! Good work! Good point too about using it on busses and single channels. I keep telling everyone that if I didn't have the hardware sitting right here next to me, I'd definitely buy the plugin. It's just been hard for me to justify spending any amount of money on the plugin when I have the hardware, but now you have me thinking. 🤔 I was wondering what kind of tubes people were modding this with. Mullard huh? Obviously good tubes as well but the manual recommends only using the Sovtek 6922's. What does Wyn think about using the Mullard's in the 747sp? Thanks again!
Hi Les I have been friends with Wyn for 30 years and we talk alot about gear as you can imagine. The 6DJ8 is a 6922 that runs lower voltage so it hit the magic harmonic point sooner... It's great sound that I have in my 747s and many of my friends who mix big records use a variety of tubes in the 747,, NOS Gold Pin Amperex 6922, NOS Telefunken 6922 and My Fave NOS Mullard 6DJ8 will be included in an update so we can tube roll thru some various tubes types.. the prices on the NOS tubes is getting wild so this feature will bring even more amazing value to an already over the top sounding Plug in unit.... what does Wyn think about NOS tubes... he loves them,, for Production though one has to find a steady source, so like most he has to go with what is readily available., and the new tubes they use sound great. That said, almost any one can hear the difference that Vintage tubes form the 60s add to any piece of gear.More silk in the highs and more harmonics in the mids and tighter lows, in general. Som f the these sets of tubes are over 1k for a set of 2,, Shane and I are big fans of harmonics so we are excited for that eventual update, from my massive NOS vintage tube collection, though we wanted to have the first release be as exact as possible, and of course leave some room for cool updates, tube rolling ,more presets etc... thanks for you support !!@@LesVegasMusic ..
Thank you so much for the quality information.The real avalon differs from the plugin.The plugin does not sound so elastic and strokes transients.But we must pay tribute to the manufacturers, the nature of the sound is preserved.I think that in the next version they will remove this difference.
@andrianger1215 You're welcome! Thanks so much for watching and for the kind words. I really appreciate it. Yes. I really like the plugin and if ever I don't have the hardware, I'll definitely be using it.
Yeah! It's really hard to get rid of the hardware once you have isn't it? It really sounds like nothing else and it's easy to use. Personally, I love it. Especially for tracking stereo sources like synths, samplers and drum machines - which was actually its intended use! It's just good for so much. Such a versatile piece of kit.
I've watched half a dozen reviews of this plugin and it sounds a lot closer in other videos than it does here. I'm not sure why and I don't get it, this plugin seems generally well-received on forums and such, then I come to this video and everyone thinks it sucks lol. Analog hardware can vary, I wonder if yours is just a different flavor from the one that was modeled
@slowpogo that is weird. Not sure. I haven't seen many other videos where they compare the hardware to the plugin. Just Matty Harris I think, and he didn't try it on a full mix - just instruments. Plus, they weren't precisely level matched like this which makes a big difference. Share a link to the video(s) you've seen where they compare the plugin to the hardware on full mixes and precisely level match them like this and I'll check it out. I wouldn't say people here think it sucks though. I'd say for the most part, the plugin has been well received but yes, I think most still favor the hardware. But that's typical here. It may just be my audience. Many of my viewers are very experienced, have well trained ears and either have, had or are seriously considering purchasing the gear I review. The audience makes a difference in the responses a video receives. That could have something to do with it. I think the plugin is excellent. I just still prefer the hardware after my test because I like what it does to the mid range and low end better. With that being said however, if I didn't already have the hardware it models, I'd be buying the plugin in two seconds. As for my unit being a different flavor, that could be true. But Kazrog themselves left a positive and in-depth comment on this video above explaining some of the variations we experienced here. Check it out if you haven't already. It offers some good insight, especially regarding the EQ bands. What I like about the plugin better than my hardware is that I don't have to spend $328 on four Mogami Gold XLR cables, $136 on two 3ft Mogami Gold patch cables, I don't have to patch it in whenever I want to use it, and I can have as many as I want, on as many tracks as I want. Here, I just use it for tracking synths, samplers and drum machines, and occasionally on the mix bus or a master. Whenever I use it though, I find it's worth its wait in gold. And this sucker is heavy!
Okay so it is not quite as 3D awesome as the hardware... But it is really nice! Has the transformer about right ...does really well with the EQ bands... You did have oversampling turned way up right?
Video interessante, complimenti. Alcuni plug-ins come quelli di Universal-Audio (Uad) sono davvero impressionanti e riescono ad avvicinarsi all’hardware al 95% che non è poco. Personalmente non ho mai amato l’Avalon ma è decisamente una macchina di tutto rispetto. Il plugin in questione, a mio opinabile parere è ancora migliorabile, al di là della comparazione che ho visto in questo video.😉
It's funny to see how some still say, forget it, there's no way it sounds similar, while there are engineers like Michael Brauer saying, at this point everything can be done ITB, others who have been mixing for 3 days say: SACRILEGE THE HARDWARE IS BETTER
@AndreeClar I know what you mean. You're right. It absolutely can all be done 💯 in the box today. But, don't think all those guys like Michael Brauer don't still love the sound of analog hardware. They just hate recalls in the analog domain. I either know or have met a lot of those top mixing engineers in person, including Michael Brauer. You have to remember, those guys are 100% mixing engineers. Not recording artists. Not producers. All they do is mix and they mix 1-3 songs per day! Recalls with analog hardware in the mix when you mix that many songs a day or year is a complete and total nightmare and it costs those guys time and money. I've watched those guys scrambling for decades to get to a point where they're satisfied with their mix, and can pretty much get the sound they're after, and what they know and love about the hardware they owned, 100% in the box. We're there. We all know it's not the same, but we're getting similar and acceptable results so we're at the point where if we want to go 100% in the box, we absolutely can. With me, I'm primarily working on my own stuff all the time so I can take as much time as I like. So, recalls aren't an issue for me, and I'll take whatever small percentage of improvement I can get from the analog hardware vs the plugins. Even with all the analog equipment I have accumulated over the years, I still mix nearly 100% in the box. I just find that analog equipment is still advantageous at the recording stage, and with a few very carefully curated pieces of analog equipment for the mix bus and mastering stages really makes the difference I'm after in my own stuff. Doesn't take much! But yes, the analog hardware isn't going to make or break a song from becoming a hit. That's for sure! Especially with everyone listening on their phone speakers and cheap earphones today! But I like to listen to my music on high end reference quality monitors and hi fi systems, so, I want it sounding as good as humanly possible because I care about that. Those who don't care about that or don't listen on high end audio equipment don't care and wont be able to tell the difference at all. It's just for me or for the other audio professionals who care and want their work to turn out the absolute best it can.
@@LesVegasMusic My point is that if you have an engineer like Brauer, I name him, because I know him and the work of his assistant, for a long time. There is hardware, Brauer sends it to be customized, that hardware goes on the market for years , then a company emulates it and THE SAME BRAUER says: the emulation is identical to the hardware, someone always appears saying, NOTHING TO SEE, IT DOESN'T SOUND OR LIKE IT, Hey! the guy who designed it and who has worked with the hardware for years says he does and uses it in his own mixes, what's the reason for just saying NO THE HARDWARE IS BETTER, that's what I mean.
@@LesVegasMusic For example, someone could tell Jaycen Joshua that he doesn't care about his work being as professional as possible? That what he does is not right because ITB does it all?
After downloading your files and comparing them in a blindtest I instantly bought the kazrog vst. There were on some points slightly differences that I could not really identify in the test. So there is no reason to own the hardware except from having too much money left or you have a rich wife😂. Well Done Kazrog!!
@photicsonar Awesome! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts after downloading the files and comparing in your own blind test. That's how it's done! Good decision.
hardware unit sounds a bit more hifi - like it more better for the hiend dope like purity. the SW is close though, i wonder if more choice for tube emulation can be provided to change the frequency curve it might make the plugin more versatile. The 500Hz was very close and natural to me. So the plugin is doing something good. I would consider buying it, thanks for the A/B with LUFS compensation to match them!
They did very well with the plug-in... the hardware does what analog does in comparison and just pops out a little more, little more lively... digital always has this slight vail, every so slightly pushing the sound back... price wise, absolutely great if you don't have the hardware. If you have a unit already that can add this pop, you could get the same sound from the plug-in. Although these aren't too expensive on Reverb, so will try to sort one out soon
@TheSakuraGumiLTD Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment. Absolutely. I actually love the plugin. If I didn't already have the hardware, I'd definitely be buying it. Although, I do think Kazrog should hook me up with a copy for making this video don't you? 🙂
@@LesVegasMusic there's this thing where it's seen as buying a good review... but a good review is worth more than a plug-in... seeing as it's digital and costs nothing to copy and paste
To my ears (middle of the night on a phone) the plugin matches the tone, but doesn’t match the depth of the hardware. Low and and mids and top end are more satisfying on the hardware. But the plugin comes quite close vibe and sound wise. With it had more depth.. but that’s usually the thing that digital plugins and software can’t emulate.
Hardware is a little more richer and has a feel a sound to it. The plugin is not bad thou, but in comparison Hardware has more of a replayable enjoyment to it!
@SMEL Thank for watching and for your comment. Totally. I thought the hardware had more midrange presence in all examples, and I like what it was doing with the low end better. However, I thought the plugin did an excellent job modeling the 32k high shelf EQ band. They really had to nail that one though, it's what's most loved about this unit. 🙂
You'll say that now until you ABX. I always *hate* these types of 'shootouts' because they easily succumb to perception and confirmation bias. I'm not blaming the creator for this - It's just the nature of our brains. However, you'll see that level-matched material through ABX is SIGNIFICANTLY harder to distinguish, and you'll find yourself having less and less 'concrete' things to say about either.
It all depends on the operator! If you hand over a second class material to an experienced builder, the result will be pleasant, otherwise it will be a waste.....
@PY3WS yeah man, if you give me a good song that was recorded well, I could produce excellent results with both. But give me a bad song that was recorded bad, there's not much I'd be able to do with that!
A shame the hardware piece was discontinued around 2018ish? & everyone with the hardware piece will never give it up. Consider the 747sp a family inheritance.
@EastridgeAlumni You're probably right. But they do pop up every now and again. Just add it your feed on reverb.com and watch it for a while. Even if you never get one, it's just nice to know how often they show up and how much they're selling for.
The 5k shelf between hardware and plugin reminds me of why I like hardware and not plugins. I was hoping not to hear that. I had been trying to convince myself to buy the plugin. Gah... Why would Kazrog implement the documented range rather than the "actual range we measured on several units"? Why not just use THAT instead of "tolerance drift and rolling tubes"? Then you have one version with the documented range, and another you actually emulated based on "several units" rather than what the plugin is now, and implementing some new random feature based NOT on the actual hardware that doesn't make this any more predictable. If the idea is results that are predictable.... Introducing these ideas makes it less predictable. The hardware is still predictable, and while each hardware unit is indeed unique, it's predictably more warm, open, more musical, and less thin, cold, and shrill than the plugin. I really wanted to like the plugin. I'll keep my eye out for the implement of features. I'd much rather them just emulate what they measured on the several units, though. What is wrong with that? Cheers.
@VCVRackIdeas Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts. Yeah, the compressor is important. Sounds great! The whole unit definitely has a very distinct sonic footprint that's really quite nice.
O hardware é bem melhor, o som é muito mais quente e vibrante. No entanto, este plugin oferece as mesmas possibilidades e recursos do hardware, o que é interessante. O comportamento do som é bem parecido, só não tem a mesma magia da coisa real. Tomara que um dia seja possível fazer uma emulação perfeita. Acho que estamos caminhando para isso. Obrigado pela demonstração. Você parece um cara muito legal. Sucesso!
@danielnacrur1155 Thank you! I really appreciate that. Yes. We're getting there! If I wasn't comparing it, I think we'd all agree the plugin works well and sounds great!
@@LesVegasMusic concordo. E o mais legal é que as pessoas que amam audio, como nós, podem adquirir plugins de alto nível (como este) e conhecerem a sonoridade bem próxima do hardware, e os comportamentos do audio em resposta aos parâmetros. Assim é possível aprender a usá-los e tirar o melhor som deles, com a prática. E no futuro, comprar os hardwares que mais gostarmos, mesmo que seja devagar, ao longo dos anos. É um momento histórico sem precedentes. Por favor, continue seu bom trabalho, nos dando a oportunidade de ouvir os hardwares comparados aos plugins!
@@LesVegasMusic Sure! Using a crash cymbal to end a loop for an A/B test is not ideal due to its disruptive and overwhelming characteristics. It's essential that any element introduced into the test scenario doesn't overshadow the subtle differences you're aiming to evaluate. To conduct an effective A/B test for slight sound differences, it's better to choose a neutral and non-intrusive sound endpoint that allows listeners to focus on the nuances you want to compare without unnecessary distractions or disruptions.
Another great review, stereo field on a real gear is just rocking.many thank for this comparison 😊 did acustica made some replica plugin of Avalon? Kazrog made a nice plugin, sound almost the same but… this stereo hug of analog🤗 😅😅😅
Hi @maxborosiuk3570! Thank you! Yes. Kazrog did an excellent job (as usual) modeling the hardware with their plugin. I really like it. I don't think Acustica has modeled any Avalon gear, definitely not the VT-747sp. Hope you're having a great weekend!
What I meant was not, that it doesn´t sound amazing, it is that one thing, that plugins still don´t achieve so well, what we call "depth".. but this applies to all plugins I know and I own ca. 2000 different plugins. No matter the company...the"3D" is always a little missing...But: the plugin is 1 quaizillion times cheaper, so who cares!@@LesVegasMusic
Not really a surprise... He might also have awesome converters which genuinely do improve three dimensionality.... The plugin sounds good though.... You can get some pretty sweet hardware three dimensionality on You must have bus some less expensive units on your master bus (assuming you're converters are decent), if you're not concerned about the other things the hardware is doing. I thought the plug in handle the saturation and the EQ curves quite well
No difference with the reggae and pop tune. Just my opinion. The first song you can hear the subtle differences.Thanks for the demo Les I can spend the $1000 on some other studio stuff.
@darrellroseborough7275 thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts. So glad it was helpful and could save you a little $ to put elsewhere. I wish there was a way we could all share the gear we get - like take pictures and share examples of how it sounds. My goal is to share the sound of every piece of gear out there, but there's just so much stuff!
Hi @JonMuro1! Thanks for watching and for your comment. The reason why I don't do blind tests is because they simply show you which you prefer - talk about yawn! In my videos, I'm trying to show people the difference in sound between the two. If they want a blind test, they can simply close their eyes and click anywhere in the video if they prefer to blindly choose which they like best.
Plugin sounds flat and not 3D like the hardware plugins are good but you can never fully get that polished sound unless the audio was process via hardware back to daw plugins are just different and can never reach analog depth
Yep. You can, that's actually what it was intended for. It's ideal for recording any stereo sources like keyboards, synths, samplers, drum machines - even drum overheads.
On RUclips I can hear more depth and pristine with the hardware and more width, however after downloading the files and listening in 96khz I can hear far less of a difference.
The only reason the 747 is famous is its tube path and high shelves. Many mastering engineers use it. Kazrog's compressor emulation fails, but that's not what I'm paying attention to.
In term of space and density the hardware is literally more intense. We can feel harmonics and tube saturation less present in the plugin. Is there over sampling in the plugin? Did you using it to the maximum?
@thesingingairlinepilot Haha! I've always wondered that myself! Of course that would be the first thing the The Singing Airline Pilot would think though! 🙂 Agreed. Personally, I'm loving the low end and midrange I'm getting from the hardware. They did a great job emulating the 32k band though. It's actually an excellent plugin. I really like it. There's no way I'll be selling the hardware though. 🙂 I know a good thing when I have it. Thanks so much for watching and leaving a comment. I really appreciate it.
@LesVegasMusic ha ha I used to watch the 747 sp when I was a child. Sadly these relics much like audio hardware are too costly to operate and end up being sold to air india... although a different tune with audio hardware he he. If my airbus a320 were nothing but touch screens and autopilot I'd be so upset as an aviator... fortunately I still get to turn a few knobs and put the plane exactly where I need it... much like hardware with audio:) love your channel brother and your 🎶. Gabe, Las Vegas, NV
@@gabrielthesingingpilot Thanks Gabe! I'm determined to gain more insight into the model name and why it was named the VT-747sp. What does all that mean?! Everything Avalon makes feels inspired by planes and aviation. Even the company name Avalon draws comparisons to the word Aviation. I'll come back to this comment and let you know what I find out! Thanks for being part of the community, love having you here. ✌🏼❤
@LesVegasMusic VT would surely be Vacuum Tube. 747 sounds awesome that's why Boeing chose it and SP would be something like special performance :) thanks Les all the best and keep up the good work
@thesingingairlinepilot Vacuum Tube for sure! Yes. 747 sounds excellent! SP = Signal Path? Maybe 747 has something to do with 'Twin' so it would be Vacuum Tube Twin Signal Path? Interesting!
Hi @Mio-fu1sr! Thanks for watching and for your comment. That would be true, if that was the case. However, all recordings were precisely level matched. What you're hearing, is the hardware having a perceived increase in loudness but it's definitely not louder as you can see from my screen recording of Expose at 2:06 where each recording is precisely level matched to -16 INT LUFS. It doesn't get any more closely level matched than that. Please let me know if there's a better, more accurate way to level match the recordings.
@LesVegasMusic i understand that but...u should have make it musically equal because the saturation, distortion and clipping of electrical circuit of the hardware makes it louder in fact it is,u can measure it but if i perceive that as a louder signal that means it is only because it's cleaner,it's electrified and it's clipped...for the sake of an experiment,make it even(by ear),and than we will talk how different it is...this pugin lack's the warmth thru the hole spectrum even in the hi's and more delay with a little bit of chorus to create that 3d space...that's it... p.s.the perceived loudnes of the both signals it's not the same...that's the summary of my elaboration
Ok. So, you prefer level matching by ear so that technically, the hardware will be quieter than the plugin when measured in LUFS, then it would be a fair comparison? Hmm. Well, I'm certain the hardware will still sound the same way it does now while technically quieter than the plugin. This is the reason I provide the 96k/32 bit wav files for download so people can compare however they prefer in their DAWs. For me, I prefer to do a fair test where all recordings are equal in volume using a measurement tool instead of by ear. There needs to be a way to fairly match the levels because I can adjust them so that you agree they sound equal in volume, but there will always be someone who will say they still aren't equally level matched - in which case, they would most likely be correct if the level matching was done by ear. I hope you will download the files, compare as you like, and come back to this post and let us know which you preferred.
@Mio-fu1sr that's weird. Same engine. Different body. One will be faster than the other. I say two of the same car in every way, then race them. Oh, and same driver too!
The hardware sounds perfect.....the ITB-software version needs an EQ plugin like Softube EQ1 or PA's Kirchhoff EQ as a HF booster to match to the same. Still not too shabby for ITB though!
@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY Do you feel the same way when you listen to the EQ only passes starting at 3:35? I thought the high shelf bands were really quite good! Though it lacks a bit directly compared to the hardware like this, I definitely think it captures the sheen and vibe quite well.
Oooo. Not sure. I haven't tried those. Although I think those are a bit different because I think they're based on the Avalon AD2055 equalizer and Avalon AD2044. I guess I'll have to get my hands on a pair of those now!
The Plugin creates a mysterious flair and creates a certain hypnosis in the sound while the hardware exudes sickening vibrancy that crumbles your brain
Nice comparison! The hardware introduces an audible lower midrange push and rolloff in the highs. The plugin is cleaner. EQ on both hardware and software sound very similar.
Theirs another review that does specific frequency analysis it’s very accurate on high end by 1db and closer to 5 db on low and 3db mids , just account for that and your pretty close to the hardware, 99% of people don’t have high end speakers and even then it’s not that noticeable.
@shanebullard7995 Yes! It is very close when you're looking at EQ curves. It's easy to match EQ curves of nearly anything in the box. You just miss the sound of the electronics in the hardware. It sounds really cool on some stuff and you realize this is why some stuff on TV, movies and radio sounds the way it does. It's just this little touch of electronics that you're hearing that gives it that "analog mojo" that's hard to get in the box. But like you said, the listeners don't care. It's just the audio professionals who are always in pursuit of perfecting their craft that care. You can make incredible sounding stuff in the box today and you can make great sounding stuff in the analog world as always. I think we have the best of both worlds today by doing most everything in the box, but I find having one or two key stereo analog processors on the mix bus or in the mastering chain really takes things to the next level. It also really matters in the tracking process to have one or two good analog channel strips with a preamp, EQ and compressor. One good analog channel strip for tracking and a good stereo EQ compressor on the mix bus like this one - everything else in the box and boom! You're there. Right where you want to be. At least, that's how it is for me! 🙂
@@LesVegasMusic Good point, I still think hardware If you can get it then get it. Plug-ins haven’t fully been able to fully capture that aspect of what happens when the frequencies travel through the circuitry of analog gear.
@@Skkyyyyyyyyyyytoo bad you aren't one of those. None of the settings were matched to the specific hardware device he was testing against, and they never can truly be matched. Your whole argument is flawed, sorry... not sorry. Thus because of the difference in an individuals ear response, more bass for example will change the dynamic response of each of your ears and the frequency response which will make you hear certain elements as louder, warmer, tinnier, wider, phasy or whatever. On top of that you have your biased interpretations of what you find pleasing to listen to and this varies based on your energy levels, or even how loud something is, like bass... this will also influence your preference. I understand this may come off as a bit aggressive, but neither of us have magic ears that is a scientific guarantee. The test is FLAWED due to it being in a completely uncontrolled environment. The only accurate approach to match it to the hardware would be if they modelled the plugin to a single unit which they did not, therefore no settings will ever match to any unit in existence.
They are completely different, not even remotely similar to each other. There seems to be an issue with the setup, or the plugin is simply garbage. Are you using the same converters for each take?
@tav_cr Yes. I am. Dangerous Music AD+ mastering converter at 96k. I'd say compare the recordings at maximum EQ settings and take into account what Kazrog said in the comment pinned to the top of this comments section.
Really not even close for me. The plugin is muffled. Sounds like a speaker turned against the wall. I agree with the comment stop trying to copy hardware and ridding the coat tails of another product and just make a good plugin. I get the marketing but it doesn't make you look good when you fall short.
@doulos5322 Hi! Thanks for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. Yeah, the difference isn't subtle is it. My wife said she could hear the difference on the speakers in our car as well. I'm sure if I wasn't matching the positions of the knobs and sliders on the hardware and plugin, and I was just matching the sound by ear, I could get them sounding closer. But, I kind of like knowing that if I want to boost 24 dB on the 15Hz band for example, it's going to sound the same on both the plugin and hardware. But as it is now, it doesn't.
@moodoom The plugin does sound great! What did I do in the video that made it bias towards the hardware? That was not my intention at all. Though I love analog hardware, I'm all about plugins and is what I came up on for the past 30 years. If anything, after level matching them and comparing for myself, I thought the video may be biased towards the plugin because the 32k band matched so closely and the 15Hz and 125 Hz bands on the plugin had more bass when at their maximum settings (which I thought people may prefer). If there's anything you feel I can do differently going forward to not show a bias towards either the hardware or the plugins in my videos, please share. I'm always learning, and looking for ways to grow and improve. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it.
@@moodoom I love lo fi. I love 12 bit old Ensoniq ASR 10 samplers and 8 track cassette recorders and its dirty eq section. I would never use a plugin on my music..l love the dirt of the Alesis compressor, l love the dirt of the Joe Meek eqs, l love the weird sound of the aphex aural exciter, l love the unpredictable sound of the 8 track cassette and its slight pitch variations, because you never know what you're gonna get or how the song is gonna come out. For the music l do, kinda, psychedelic funk, plugin eqs and compressors just don't cut it..
@@dannydaniel8975 Bruh you are talking stupid you automatically lost when you said you wouldn't put a plugin on music, bruh you are just a hardware cuck your argument is now invalid.
This plugin gimmick is really getting on my balls... why can't plugin manufacturers understand that their shit just doesn't compare to REAL THING, how often do tests have to prove that??? ... just does something good and original instead of copies of some luxury equipment ...
@kyronnewbury Haha. Yes. Some 💯 in the box. Others, hybrid. And even more top mastering engineers are still using analog hardware. Don't let 'em fool you bro! They all still love the sound of analog, the mixing engineers just hate analog for recalls. And don't forget about recording engineers! No top recording engineers are using plugins to record on the way in, they're all using analog hardware. That's what I bought it for primarily, recording synths, samplers and drum machines. It's just a bonus that it has excellent low and high shelf EQ bands for mix bus processing and mastering. I've actually been 💯 in the box since 1994! Haha. It's just until now and over the past few years when I could start to afford the hardware that I've come to appreciate the advantages, but I'm still primarily in the box when it comes to mixing. I just use hardware for recording, the mix bus and mastering. Did you prefer the sound of the plugin compared to the hardware in this video?
Same shit always say I’ve been ITB for a long time until I went the hybrid route plugin can never meet hardware period even with all it’s oversampling it’s always dull and lifeless and require saturation which again does not sound good as hardware saturation plugins sound 2D and hardware sound 3D with depth and polish. No offence it took me a long time to save up for hardware I think that people who say those things are jealous they don’t have hardware so they say that to make them selfs feel better not saying you can’t make good music with plugins it’s just not the same
@dannydaniel8975 Haha! M.A.G.A! 🙌🏼 Naaa, just testing it out on a few mixes. For as long as I have the hardware sitting here next to me, I'll continue to use that. Thanks for watching and for your comment. I really appreciate it.
That hardware was never impressive to begin with. Only bling oriented people ever bought it. The Las Vegas or Dubai version of high-end, so to speak. It was usually never plugged in at the studios I worked. But guitar center pushed them on people with more money than ears, I guess.
@hepphepps8356 Haha. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I've never met anyone at guitar center who knew what they were talking about when it came to recording, mixing or mastering anyway have you? I only know of it from its use in high end mastering studios myself. It's actually excellent for recording any stereo source as well.
People only make these ‘comparison’ videos to show off their gear. No plug-in sounds better than a hardware unit. None. Zero. Zilch. These comparisons are useless whether level matched or not.
@tkelong3569 Thanks for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it. That's not the case with me though brother. If I wanted to show off my gear, I think I'd probably just take pictures of it, or do a studio tour video. I make these videos to give people access to hear how expensive and sometimes rare analog hardware sounds - something they may never have access to. That's the primary thing I want to do for people with these videos, because for 30 years, I never had the means or access to gear like this, and I always had to use the plugin emulations with no idea of how the original hardware sounded or how it compared in any way. I wanted to know if the plugins I was using, sounded as good or the same as the original hardware, or if the hardware sounded better - and if so, in what ways. I wanted to know if I was missing out on anything and if I was, I wanted to be able to make a decision if it was worth saving up and spending a lot of money on the hardware, or if the plugins worked for me just as well. That's why I do these videos. I want to give people access to that.
@frankensteinhiphop yeah, I think it's the whole real tube thing that makes it sound more 'natural'. I mean, it can't help but sound different passing through physical electronics rather than 1's and 0's right? 🤔
@@LesVegasMusic - I have quite a few plugins and they are capable but yeah there’s a difference. Not to mention when u try and run them in parallel processing I’ve been doing more and more on how it imparts latency into the signal and I have a power computer. There’s just a beauty in how analog works together of course the recall ability of ITB is undeniable. Plugins like this have come along way for sure but are still not there let’s face it if they were hardware would be deemed obsolete
It's more about if you can't afford the hardware does the software improve your recordings/mix. It's giving people who can't afford the hardware access.
Great video and very well executed comparison! I have a few insights to share that may be helpful in matching settings more closely. Firstly, though I thought I'd mention that your link to the lossless files says that it's been deleted - as soon as you fix it, I'd love to check those out. :)
1) One key difference between the hardware and the plugin is that the plugin uses the documented range for the graphical EQ sliders, rather than the actual range we measured on several units. In general, the center 4 bands have about 3/4 less boost/cut range on the hardware than the documentation says they do, so if you're matching settings, that's something to keep in mind. Why did we go with the documented range instead, you might ask? Because it's important to us to have tools that provide intuitive user feedback and results that are predictable. That said, we may offer a "tolerance drift" feature in a future update to optionally emulate the drift and variation of various analog modeled components.
2) Tube selection can make a significant difference in the gain staging of the VT-747SP hardware. We modeled a modern, relatively clean set of tubes, but we plan to offer a "tube rolling" feature down the road to allow users to change the harmonic voicing of the plugin.
3) The gold standard of blind audio tests is ABX testing (which is impossible to do on RUclips itself, but possible if one has lossless files to download.) There's a free software tool here to conduct your own blind ABX tests lacinato.com/cm/software/othersoft/abx
Again, awesome video and this was a very fun watch/listen!
-Shane McFee
🤘
@KazrogPlugins Hi Shane! Thanks so much! That's all very helpful, and based on the considerations you were faced with, I think you made the right decisions in your approach to modeling the hardware. That explains why on the low bands, there was a lot less bass coming from the hardware (which I actually preferred). On the plugin, if I wasn't trying to match the hardware, I'm sure I would have just dialed in a little less bass. I really like the idea of adding a tolerance drift feature. That's something I haven't seen on other analog modeled plugins that I think would be really nice. I also like the idea of the tube rolling feature. In the manual for the hardware, it highly recommends only using the factory installed tubes. Would you just model new and old factory recommended tubes, or would you model other brands of tubes that work for the unit? I'm all about keeping things stock. My unit has the factory installed Sovtek 6922 tubes. As you can hear, they're still working great, but they'll probably be needing a replacement soon. Thanks for the heads-up on the broken download link. That has since been fixed and can be accessed at the link below. Please do download, compare and come back to this post to share your thoughts. On a side note, do you have any insight into the model name and if it had anything to do with the Boeing 747? It could help answer a burning question for myself and the viewer below.🙂 www.dropbox.com/sh/t5hixuehup7lf0e/AADAbgcltrlYq5wYs8sWtEnza?dl=0
You can enhance the user experience by integrating buttons that allow for the selection between the "theoretical" documented EQ range and the measured (real hardware) EQ range, positioned at the top left or right of the plugin UI. Additionally, include corresponding curves for the compressor. It is recommended to introduce a button that enables the switch between two distinct states, labeled as "Ideal" and "Real," or indicated by the enumeration of 1, 2, and 3, representing the theoretical and real hardware units, respectively. This functionality will provide users with the opportunity to visualize and effectively compare both scenarios. Not only does it offer a more practical method for users to explore the theoretical and real-world performance, but it also fosters a deeper understanding of the equipment's capabilities.
The EQ difference also accounts for the comments that the stereo field seemed narrowed, tweaking the highs a bit on the plug-in would take care of that nicely.
Applying stereo differences on an equalizer is not a good decision because if the equalizer is properly calibrated, there shouldn't be any stereo discrepancies.@@gettingstuffdoneright5332
@@gettingstuffdoneright5332 Thank you for saying this! its so true
Thanks for letting us hear them side by side. The Kazrog plug is amazing in it’s own right. After testing their free demo, it most certainly is on my “to buy list”. Hoping for a sale🤞🏻😊
Yeah man! It goes on sale often. It's actually on sale as we speak for $77 and that's the cheapest it's ever been offered at since it was announced at the 50% off intro pricing of $79 back on 8/19/23 - just to give you a point of reference.
Wow... They really , in my ears Nailed it...BTW, I love your approach to comparisons...
A loop, in a groove, switching between at the point, not to hide it, but for those to notice...
Also, They need to bring the Purple knob skin to the table........
"Purple knob skin to the table........".. As bad as that sounds... LOL
Agreed! I have only used the purple version and it looks great. 😎
@kadiummusic That's so awesome!
Thanks so much for putting this video together, I found it very helpful and I appreciated the attention to detail in gain matching. The developer usefully comments on hardware EQ tolerance drift which would definitely play a role in the narrowed stereo field and loss of highs that some noted. Shane knows what he's doing, the upgrades planned are very cool, the plug-in sounds great and provides all the same productivity benefits of the hardware. (btw, Shane's plug-in "True Iron" is magic.)
@gettingstuffdoneright5332 You're welcome! Thank you for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts. Agreed 💯. I really like the plugin and if I didn't have the hardware sitting right here next to me, I would have definitely bought the plugin already. And yes, when it comes to Kazrog, it's all about KClip 3 and True Iron! I'm very happy to see them scoring the official license for the Avalon 747 though.
The VST comes close to the hardware, but the hardware sounds warmer and clearer than the VST. The stereo width is also better with the hardware. I think it will take a few more updates to really approach the hardware.
I don’t think vst can ever come close to hardware it will always sound different but never the same it’s alway 2D sounding flat
@@shevyjohn9308 It is mainly a matter of programming, and CPU power. If you really program all factors of a hardware, almost no difference should be heard. And then of course you need a very good sound card, because that's important too.
@@shevyjohn9308I agree. We have to remember that hardware audio still has to pass through converters that will also color the audio. There will never be a one to one from Plug-ins to hardware.
Finally sat down and listened through monitors. The hardware seems to have a bit more top end than the plugin which could be fixed by bringing up the top a little. Outside of that there wasn't a huge difference in tone. The fact that you can get basically there for like $150 when it's not on sale is friggin crazy!
Shane did an incredible job on this and it will become an instant classic like all his other plugins
@kyronnewbury thanks for checking on your monitors and circling back to let us know what you thought. Agree 💯! Great plugin! Love the 32k high shelf band. I think it's worth it for that alone. Especially at the intro pricing.
Overall, Definitely worth having the hardware
The stereo field sounds totally different to me between hardware to plugin.
Is just a visual ilusion, please try again but close your eyes
@iiimpala2078 That's so interesting!
Your way of validation is very clear and helpful!
I would love to see other plugins and hardware verifications as well!
@reboootlove5926 thanks so much! Yes. My goal is to do this with all popular hardware and analog plugin emulations to give people access to hear how rare and expensive hardware sounds and compares to the plugins. Thanks so much for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it. ✌🏼❤️
The difference seemed obvious, then I started closing my eyes. I realized the visual impact of seeing the beautiful hardware vs the tiny software gui was influencing what I thought I heard. They are pretty close!
@jetn8654 Oh yeah. Definitely. I'm glad you did that. That's why people like blind tests, but I figure if you want to do that, you could always just do what you did - close your eyes, click anywhere on the video and see if you can pick which is which. But only after learning what the hardware sounds like. That's what I don't like about blind tests. How are you suppose to be able to pick which is which when you've never heard the hardware before? 🙂 In blind tests, I always just end up picking whichever I prefer anyway. Sometimes it's the hardware, and sometimes it's the plugin! In any case, you should always use what you prefer and you can definitely get incredible mixes 100% in the box today. That's undeniable.
its pretty close and the people saying "Its so much worse" in one or other way, are crazy. I think Shane did a gret job. Its a cool hardware and the modelling is done well. I dont trust most of the people bashing it to tell them apart in a blind comparison. I think its very close. The hardware sounds a bit better in some instances, but just a tiny bit, talking few % at max. But closing my eyes, i didnt noticed when the switch was made except for 2 times and i still loved both sounds. im literally doing these kinds of videos not looking or eyes closed, and since then my bias towards "OG Hardware" became very weak on its legs. Sure, hardware is great for the extra push of a few percent, but tell me about all the people listening to music who care. ;)
But tbh, i would be in denial as well, if i would be sitting on a ton of moneys worth of hardware and seeing this :)
Great video and great job Kazrog. :)
Hardware just has that extra 10% its crazy , just picked up a 737!
@REMRODFILMS Yeah man! Congratulations on the 737. Good get! I wish you the best of luck with it. Thanks for watching!
@@LesVegasMusickeep going brother!
@REMRODFILMS Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, support and encouragement. I will. I'm working on a music video for my debut rock record now, then back to the gear reviews starting with the new Rupert Neve Designs Master Bus Transformer!
Totally, maybe even 20% to me there was no comparison. The hardware has a cohesive life to it that sounds more musical and better on all settings, an actual mastering grade box whereas the plug-in easily took thing into a flat,kinda smeared sound.
Good video and very detailed information thanks!! I just bought the plugin and it replaced almost my whole vocal chain!
@Kanavesimeloni You're welcome! So glad to hear you got the plugin and it's working out well for you. Feel free to share your music in the comments section on any one of my videos. We'd love to hear your work! Thanks again!
Just by listening to the low end the hardware wins
Not even close, the hardware is KING 👑
@JuanNungaray 🙌🏼 Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
Very cool comparison ... and very well executed! I love that you LUFS matched and that we can hear a music loop! 👍👍👍
@MixedByDotRob Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I really appreciate that. ✌🏼❤️
Trying to match the settings in a hardware vs plugin comparison is ridiculous, you dont set the gear by what you are seeing but by what you are hearing. there is always going to be a diference comparing any kind of equipoment, i think the intersting thing is to see how good can sound each equipoment even if the settings are different.
@spastor92 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. I don't structure my videos that way because I find I can get most any hardware plugin emulation to sound the same, or very close to the same as the hardware. If you'd like me to make a video on how I can get the plugin to sound the same as the hardware, I could certainly do that and everyone would be impressed by how closely I got the plugin to match the hardware. But in order for someone to do that at home, I'd have to lend them my ears. Like Kazrog themselves mentioned in a comment here, they made the choices they did when developing the plugin so that it could have predictable performance. That's more along the lines of what I'm testing here. Not how close I can get the plugin to sound to the hardware, but more how predictable it is to the hardware. For example, when I want to boost 24 dB of 32k like I do on the hardware, I want to know if the the plugin is going to sound the same as what I'm use to. Or if I want 1-2 dB of gain reduction from the compressor, does the plugin sound and react the same as what I'm use to with the hardware. Also, regardless of how the test is performed, videos like this give people access to hear how rare and expensive hardware sounds - something they may never have access to. That's the primary thing I want to do for people with these videos because for 30 years, I never had the means or access to gear like this and I always had to use the plugin emulations with no idea how the original hardware even sounded or how it compared in any way. I want to give people access to that.
@@LesVegasMusic I understand, thx for the response and keep the good work
@@LesVegasMusic, I think a section of the video where you show that the plugin CAN sound almost 1:1 the same with the proper settings would be valuable. Not that we'd have your ears, but we have ours! And if we trust them, we can know what is possible if we train our ears and tinker with confidence.
@ChristopherKou Good suggestion! I'll give it a try on the next one.
Hardware CLEARLY sounds better
@JNo-sk5mz thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! I really appreciate it.
Thank you for a very good comparison since many of us don't have access to the hardware. Not level matched? Listen to wideness, boominess, punch, 'roominess' etc instead. The software is damn close but there is still this 2 percent thing, that makes a world of a difference. I use a lot of hardware in my setup but I love the emulation game ever since.
Every time the hardware shined its way, but it’s amazing how the plug-in almost sounds the same!!, just the analog vibe is missing
Man, the hardware sounds so good. The plug-in needs some updates to get closer. I already bought the plugin, lol.
@amunahm3324 Yeah man! That's why it's so highly sought after. I actually really like the plugin. If I didn't have the hardware sitting right next to me, I'd definitely buy the plugin. I think it's excellent, I'd recommended it to anyone who asked.
Great comparison, hardware embraces and hugs. The plug just shakes hands. but hard :) Kazrog is great company. Thank's
@admiraldmc9286 Thank you! Ha! I like how you put that. Thanks for watching and for your comment. ✌🏼❤️
Hardware has a bit more warmth and the sounds are a bit more forward and pops out a bit more.
I think you can get the plugin version to sound indistinguishable from the hardware if you add True Iron to the chain. You will have to play with the settings of course.
Thank you very much for uploading this. I know this video was created to show how close you can get with a plugin, but all it's done for me is make me want to go and get the original hardware. I mean, I can see WHY Kazrog created the plugin, and it does have similar characteristics to the hardware, but my goodness, that hardware unit is just gorgeous sounding, as indeed it SHOULD for how much it costs!
The Reggae, Indy AND Dance tracks though did get much closer! I'm going to have to listen to this much more intensely and a few more times, but I am thinking now the plugin isn't as far away as I initially thought. When CD first came out, I spent years trying to alter the sound I'd get from Vinyl to match that of CD, but I think with The Kazrog Plugin and one or two others, I could get really close. It's the stereo field where I notice the difference the most. Thank you again for uploading this.. I do love a good conundrum or two!
@djGreenALERT You're welcome! Thank you for watching and for your comment. I know what you mean. It's a special piece. I forget where I learned about it exactly, but when I found out about it, it made so much sense to me since I could use it in the recording, mixing and mastering stages of the production process. I wish I knew why they discontinued it in 2018. I'm assuming it had something to do with parts and cost, but I'm just not sure. I'd love to find out one day though. It will be a piece of gear I keep forever. That and my pair of Millennia STT-1's. Another piece of equipment I can use for all stages of the production process. I tend to like gear like that best. It's a lot of dough, but I rather spend $3k on one thing that sounds amazing, then $1k on three things that sound pretty good and do the same job as one thing. That's just how I roll. Plus, I honestly like to do as much in the box as I can and use hardware only for the recording process or for broad strokes on the mix bus or during mastering.
@@LesVegasMusic it really was a pleasure to watch/ listen to this comparison video. Everything you've said about buying the best you can afford rings true for me as well. I mean, if you don't spend it on something you truly want, the money only goes on trivial things anyway. I don't know much about the Millennia STT-1s, only that it is another expensive bit of kit, but I think, like you, the two main reasons companies cease products is when sales go down, or the parts start to cost so much more that it becomes ineffective to sell.
Just using my Macbook Pro speakers I "feel" like I can detect a slight bit more clarity from the hardware..maybe in the 4.5 - 5k range? Some sort of slight glimmer. But it's minor and perhaps could be made even with an Eq adjustment? For $3000 vs under $100 that's pretty damn good!
@JHelix Yeah man, totally agree💯. It's a great plugin. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it.
Great video. Thank you, Les. In my 7506s, they sound pretty darn close. Biggest difference I caught was the mid-range on the plug sounds more subdues/slightly sucked in. The hardware midrange is almost always the hi-light of the program content you shared. (by the way, you guys sound great, thanks for sharing).
The midrange attenuation is huge! When you get the mids right, the other two are far easier to balance . -mg!
@MGtheVisionary3030 Thank you! I agree 💯 about the midrange. If you focus on the vocal and how the hardware almost protects everything in the midrange, that's the biggest difference to me because you can dial in the EQ to match if you want, but there's no control to hug the mid range like the hardware does and as you mentioned, the mid range is where it's at! Although, everyone likes a well dialed in bottom and sparkly top end as well don't we?! The 747 hardware or plugin is great for that.
The hardware better than the plug
Hardware sounds very good and thinking there’s a bit more tinkering with settings required to get the software closer. But its a great plugin. Also wondering if running the plugin through some real analogue tubes post might bring it closer. Thanks for the video. Great channel!
Great Video Les.... I have a few 747s but an glad We made the Plug in cause it is so very useful on busses and single channels.... this is one of the best Vid I have seen so Far.. I am a 30 year Avalon user Long Time Pal of Wyn and I am stoked we captured the sheen and vibes of this magical unit...I use Mullard 6DJ8 a 6922 variant as Shane mentioned we will be offering some really cool tube rolling variations from y crazy vintage tube collection..
Great video and very well executed comparison!,,, all best Devin Powers - Product Partner Kazrog
@powersmusicgroup Thanks so much Devin! The plugin came out excellent! Good work! Good point too about using it on busses and single channels. I keep telling everyone that if I didn't have the hardware sitting right here next to me, I'd definitely buy the plugin. It's just been hard for me to justify spending any amount of money on the plugin when I have the hardware, but now you have me thinking. 🤔 I was wondering what kind of tubes people were modding this with. Mullard huh? Obviously good tubes as well but the manual recommends only using the Sovtek 6922's. What does Wyn think about using the Mullard's in the 747sp? Thanks again!
Hi Les I have been friends with Wyn for 30 years and we talk alot about gear as you can imagine. The 6DJ8 is a 6922 that runs lower voltage so it hit the magic harmonic point sooner... It's great sound that I have in my 747s and many of my friends who mix big records use a variety of tubes in the 747,, NOS Gold Pin Amperex 6922, NOS Telefunken 6922 and My Fave NOS Mullard 6DJ8 will be included in an update so we can tube roll thru some various tubes types.. the prices on the NOS tubes is getting wild so this feature will bring even more amazing value to an already over the top sounding Plug in unit.... what does Wyn think about NOS tubes... he loves them,, for Production though one has to find a steady source, so like most he has to go with what is readily available., and the new tubes they use sound great. That said, almost any one can hear the difference that Vintage tubes form the 60s add to any piece of gear.More silk in the highs and more harmonics in the mids and tighter lows, in general. Som f the these sets of tubes are over 1k for a set of 2,, Shane and I are big fans of harmonics so we are excited for that eventual update, from my massive NOS vintage tube collection, though we wanted to have the first release be as exact as possible, and of course leave some room for cool updates, tube rolling ,more presets etc... thanks for you support !!@@LesVegasMusic ..
Thank you so much for the quality information.The real avalon differs from the plugin.The plugin does not sound so elastic and strokes transients.But we must pay tribute to the manufacturers, the nature of the sound is preserved.I think that in the next version they will remove this difference.
@andrianger1215 You're welcome! Thanks so much for watching and for the kind words. I really appreciate it. Yes. I really like the plugin and if ever I don't have the hardware, I'll definitely be using it.
I have the hardware and have been using it since 2008. To me the plug in sounds stuffy and dull, the hardware is much more open and natural sounding
Yeah! It's really hard to get rid of the hardware once you have isn't it? It really sounds like nothing else and it's easy to use. Personally, I love it. Especially for tracking stereo sources like synths, samplers and drum machines - which was actually its intended use! It's just good for so much. Such a versatile piece of kit.
The plugin sounds dull to me to.
@robertviccica9028 Thanks for watching and letting us know what you think! I appreciate it. ✌🏼❤️
The plugin sounds a little more dull and flat, little less open, less emotional, less rounded, doesnt quite breath the same way the hardware does.
@homegrownbeats313 Thanks for watching and taking the time
to share your thoughts.
I've watched half a dozen reviews of this plugin and it sounds a lot closer in other videos than it does here. I'm not sure why and I don't get it, this plugin seems generally well-received on forums and such, then I come to this video and everyone thinks it sucks lol. Analog hardware can vary, I wonder if yours is just a different flavor from the one that was modeled
@slowpogo that is weird. Not sure. I haven't seen many other videos where they compare the hardware to the plugin. Just Matty Harris I think, and he didn't try it on a full mix - just instruments. Plus, they weren't precisely level matched like this which makes a big difference. Share a link to the video(s) you've seen where they compare the plugin to the hardware on full mixes and precisely level match them like this and I'll check it out. I wouldn't say people here think it sucks though. I'd say for the most part, the plugin has been well received but yes, I think most still favor the hardware. But that's typical here. It may just be my audience. Many of my viewers are very experienced, have well trained ears and either have, had or are seriously considering purchasing the gear I review. The audience makes a difference in the responses a video receives. That could have something to do with it. I think the plugin is excellent. I just still prefer the hardware after my test because I like what it does to the mid range and low end better. With that being said however, if I didn't already have the hardware it models, I'd be buying the plugin in two seconds. As for my unit being a different flavor, that could be true. But Kazrog themselves left a positive and in-depth comment on this video above explaining some of the variations we experienced here. Check it out if you haven't already. It offers some good insight, especially regarding the EQ bands. What I like about the plugin better than my hardware is that I don't have to spend $328 on four Mogami Gold XLR cables, $136 on two 3ft Mogami Gold patch cables, I don't have to patch it in whenever I want to use it, and I can have as many as I want, on as many tracks as I want. Here, I just use it for tracking synths, samplers and drum machines, and occasionally on the mix bus or a master. Whenever I use it though, I find it's worth its wait in gold. And this sucker is heavy!
Okay so it is not quite as 3D awesome as the hardware... But it is really nice! Has the transformer about right ...does really well with the EQ bands... You did have oversampling turned way up right?
It's like you drive a real car or play in a simulator. Thats the reality when plugin vs hardware.
Video interessante, complimenti. Alcuni plug-ins come quelli di Universal-Audio (Uad) sono davvero impressionanti e riescono ad avvicinarsi all’hardware al 95% che non è poco. Personalmente non ho mai amato l’Avalon ma è decisamente una macchina di tutto rispetto. Il plugin in questione, a mio opinabile parere è ancora migliorabile, al di là della comparazione che ho visto in questo video.😉
Grazie! Sono d'accordo. 💯
It's funny to see how some still say, forget it, there's no way it sounds similar, while there are engineers like Michael Brauer saying, at this point everything can be done ITB, others who have been mixing for 3 days say: SACRILEGE THE HARDWARE IS BETTER
@AndreeClar I know what you mean. You're right. It absolutely can all be done 💯 in the box today. But, don't think all those guys like Michael Brauer don't still love the sound of analog hardware. They just hate recalls in the analog domain. I either know or have met a lot of those top mixing engineers in person, including Michael Brauer. You have to remember, those guys are 100% mixing engineers. Not recording artists. Not producers. All they do is mix and they mix 1-3 songs per day! Recalls with analog hardware in the mix when you mix that many songs a day or year is a complete and total nightmare and it costs those guys time and money. I've watched those guys scrambling for decades to get to a point where they're satisfied with their mix, and can pretty much get the sound they're after, and what they know and love about the hardware they owned, 100% in the box. We're there. We all know it's not the same, but we're getting similar and acceptable results so we're at the point where if we want to go 100% in the box, we absolutely can. With me, I'm primarily working on my own stuff all the time so I can take as much time as I like. So, recalls aren't an issue for me, and I'll take whatever small percentage of improvement I can get from the analog hardware vs the plugins. Even with all the analog equipment I have accumulated over the years, I still mix nearly 100% in the box. I just find that analog equipment is still advantageous at the recording stage, and with a few very carefully curated pieces of analog equipment for the mix bus and mastering stages really makes the difference I'm after in my own stuff. Doesn't take much! But yes, the analog hardware isn't going to make or break a song from becoming a hit. That's for sure! Especially with everyone listening on their phone speakers and cheap earphones today! But I like to listen to my music on high end reference quality monitors and hi fi systems, so, I want it sounding as good as humanly possible because I care about that. Those who don't care about that or don't listen on high end audio equipment don't care and wont be able to tell the difference at all. It's just for me or for the other audio professionals who care and want their work to turn out the absolute best it can.
@@LesVegasMusic My point is that if you have an engineer like Brauer, I name him, because I know him and the work of his assistant, for a long time. There is hardware, Brauer sends it to be customized, that hardware goes on the market for years , then a company emulates it and THE SAME BRAUER says: the emulation is identical to the hardware, someone always appears saying, NOTHING TO SEE, IT DOESN'T SOUND OR LIKE IT, Hey! the guy who designed it and who has worked with the hardware for years says he does and uses it in his own mixes, what's the reason for just saying NO THE HARDWARE IS BETTER, that's what I mean.
@@LesVegasMusic For example, someone could tell Jaycen Joshua that he doesn't care about his work being as professional as possible? That what he does is not right because ITB does it all?
@@AndreeClar They are payed to promote the plugins.
@@aleksandarstojceski3139 I think you have no idea who Jaycen Joshua and Michael Brauer are.
2:23 - Avalon VT-747SP on Pop Rock
5:53 - Avalon VT-747SP on Reggae
6:23 - Avalon VT-747SP on Indie Rock
7:08 - Avalon VT-747SP on Dance
After downloading your files and comparing them in a blindtest I instantly bought the kazrog vst. There were on some points slightly differences that I could not really identify in the test. So there is no reason to own the hardware except from having too much money left or you have a rich wife😂. Well Done Kazrog!!
@photicsonar Awesome! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts after downloading the files and comparing in your own blind test. That's how it's done! Good decision.
Keep Up the Great Work, Buddy!@@LesVegasMusic
hardware unit sounds a bit more hifi - like it more better for the hiend dope like purity. the SW is close though, i wonder if more choice for tube emulation can be provided to change the frequency curve it might make the plugin more versatile. The 500Hz was very close and natural to me. So the plugin is doing something good. I would consider buying it, thanks for the A/B with LUFS compensation to match them!
They did very well with the plug-in... the hardware does what analog does in comparison and just pops out a little more, little more lively... digital always has this slight vail, every so slightly pushing the sound back... price wise, absolutely great if you don't have the hardware.
If you have a unit already that can add this pop, you could get the same sound from the plug-in.
Although these aren't too expensive on Reverb, so will try to sort one out soon
@TheSakuraGumiLTD Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment. Absolutely. I actually love the plugin. If I didn't already have the hardware, I'd definitely be buying it. Although, I do think Kazrog should hook me up with a copy for making this video don't you? 🙂
@@LesVegasMusic there's this thing where it's seen as buying a good review... but a good review is worth more than a plug-in... seeing as it's digital and costs nothing to copy and paste
@@TheSakuraGumiLTD I hear you!
It's very close!
To my ears (middle of the night on a phone) the plugin matches the tone, but doesn’t match the depth of the hardware. Low and and mids and top end are more satisfying on the hardware. But the plugin comes quite close vibe and sound wise. With it had more depth.. but that’s usually the thing that digital plugins and software can’t emulate.
@skylerfelix7609 💯 Thanks for watching!
Sounds like the hardware is wider - maybe the hardware unit has some differences between L and R channels?
Kick n snare in hardware version is excellent
@avinashps9854 Yeah! Vocals too!
Hardware is a little more richer and has a feel a sound to it. The plugin is not bad thou, but in comparison Hardware has more of a replayable enjoyment to it!
@SMEL Thank for watching and for your comment. Totally. I thought the hardware had more midrange presence in all examples, and I like what it was doing with the low end better. However, I thought the plugin did an excellent job modeling the 32k high shelf EQ band. They really had to nail that one though, it's what's most loved about this unit. 🙂
I bought the plugin, and now i ve just bought the real one 😂. Can t wait to try it !!!!
Oh wow! Congratulations! I think you're really going to love it.
@@LesVegasMusic thx ! Sure. I ll leave a comment 😊
Vocals sounded super nice on the hardware, bass was slightly tighter.
@bigsocks2479 💯 Thanks for watching!
You'll say that now until you ABX. I always *hate* these types of 'shootouts' because they easily succumb to perception and confirmation bias. I'm not blaming the creator for this - It's just the nature of our brains. However, you'll see that level-matched material through ABX is SIGNIFICANTLY harder to distinguish, and you'll find yourself having less and less 'concrete' things to say about either.
It all depends on the operator!
If you hand over a second class material to an experienced builder, the result will be pleasant, otherwise it will be a waste.....
@PY3WS yeah man, if you give me a good song that was recorded well, I could produce excellent results with both. But give me a bad song that was recorded bad, there's not much I'd be able to do with that!
Hardware sounds way better than the vst🔥
@lessodtbeatz8013 Awesome! Thanks for watching and letting us know what you think!
A shame the hardware piece was discontinued around 2018ish? & everyone with the hardware piece will never give it up. Consider the 747sp a family inheritance.
@EastridgeAlumni You're probably right. But they do pop up every now and again. Just add it your feed on reverb.com and watch it for a while. Even if you never get one, it's just nice to know how often they show up and how much they're selling for.
The 5k shelf between hardware and plugin reminds me of why I like hardware and not plugins. I was hoping not to hear that. I had been trying to convince myself to buy the plugin. Gah...
Why would Kazrog implement the documented range rather than the "actual range we measured on several units"?
Why not just use THAT instead of "tolerance drift and rolling tubes"? Then you have one version with the documented range, and another you actually emulated based on "several units" rather than what the plugin is now, and implementing some new random feature based NOT on the actual hardware that doesn't make this any more predictable.
If the idea is results that are predictable.... Introducing these ideas makes it less predictable. The hardware is still predictable, and while each hardware unit is indeed unique, it's predictably more warm, open, more musical, and less thin, cold, and shrill than the plugin.
I really wanted to like the plugin. I'll keep my eye out for the implement of features. I'd much rather them just emulate what they measured on the several units, though. What is wrong with that? Cheers.
@jorykevinberger7047 Thanks for watching and for taking the time to share your thoughts. You make a lot of good points here.
i guess the main difference is how compressor works in the hardware unit and it works very well
@VCVRackIdeas Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts. Yeah, the compressor is important. Sounds great! The whole unit definitely has a very distinct sonic footprint that's really quite nice.
O hardware é bem melhor, o som é muito mais quente e vibrante. No entanto, este plugin oferece as mesmas possibilidades e recursos do hardware, o que é interessante. O comportamento do som é bem parecido, só não tem a mesma magia da coisa real. Tomara que um dia seja possível fazer uma emulação perfeita. Acho que estamos caminhando para isso. Obrigado pela demonstração. Você parece um cara muito legal. Sucesso!
@danielnacrur1155 Thank you! I really appreciate that. Yes. We're getting there! If I wasn't comparing it, I think we'd all agree the plugin works well and sounds great!
@@LesVegasMusic concordo. E o mais legal é que as pessoas que amam audio, como nós, podem adquirir plugins de alto nível (como este) e conhecerem a sonoridade bem próxima do hardware, e os comportamentos do audio em resposta aos parâmetros. Assim é possível aprender a usá-los e tirar o melhor som deles, com a prática. E no futuro, comprar os hardwares que mais gostarmos, mesmo que seja devagar, ao longo dos anos. É um momento histórico sem precedentes. Por favor, continue seu bom trabalho, nos dando a oportunidade de ouvir os hardwares comparados aos plugins!
Thereis about a 30% difference, the hardware sounds more focused and 3D in the lower and higher frequencies.
soundwise, 2D plugin vs 3D hardware
Hardware is noticeably better.
@ultravirez Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! I really appreciate it.
You shouldn't loop on a cymbal or crash sound but if you wanted to match the sound by eq, I think it's possible for both to sound the same.
@errmable Thank for watching and for your feedback. Why shouldn't we loop on a crash? Too fatiguing on the ears?
@@LesVegasMusic Sure! Using a crash cymbal to end a loop for an A/B test is not ideal due to its disruptive and overwhelming characteristics. It's essential that any element introduced into the test scenario doesn't overshadow the subtle differences you're aiming to evaluate. To conduct an effective A/B test for slight sound differences, it's better to choose a neutral and non-intrusive sound endpoint that allows listeners to focus on the nuances you want to compare without unnecessary distractions or disruptions.
@errmable Aah. Makes total sense! I'll try moving the loop to a verse next time. Thank you!
Regardless, thanks for the video!
@errmable Of course! You're welcome. Thanks again.
Thank you very much for the comparison. To keep it quick & simple. The plugin degrates the audio
@RockmannMusic You're welcome! Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts.
???
Uhh...
i kno they're supposed to be level matched yet the plugin sounds always a little quieter xd
Another great review, stereo field on a real gear is just rocking.many thank for this comparison 😊 did acustica made some replica plugin of Avalon? Kazrog made a nice plugin, sound almost the same but… this stereo hug of analog🤗 😅😅😅
Hi @maxborosiuk3570! Thank you! Yes. Kazrog did an excellent job (as usual) modeling the hardware with their plugin. I really like it. I don't think Acustica has modeled any Avalon gear, definitely not the VT-747sp. Hope you're having a great weekend!
@@BROOKLYN_EMPIRE thank you! Yes. I looked into this. Looks like I'll need to get my hands on a 2044 and 2055 now! 🙂
unfortunately the hardware sounds 10 times more 3 D
Says the same guy making artificial intelligence plugin videos.
@oliverpinelli3334 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts with us. I really appreciate it.
What I meant was not, that it doesn´t sound amazing, it is that one thing, that plugins still don´t achieve so well, what we call "depth".. but this applies to all plugins I know and I own ca. 2000 different plugins. No matter the company...the"3D" is always a little missing...But: the plugin is 1 quaizillion times cheaper, so who cares!@@LesVegasMusic
Not really a surprise... He might also have awesome converters which genuinely do improve three dimensionality.... The plugin sounds good though.... You can get some pretty sweet hardware three dimensionality on You must have bus some less expensive units on your master bus (assuming you're converters are decent), if you're not concerned about the other things the hardware is doing. I thought the plug in handle the saturation and the EQ curves quite well
No difference with the reggae and pop tune. Just my opinion. The first song you can hear the subtle differences.Thanks for the demo Les I can spend the $1000 on some other studio stuff.
@darrellroseborough7275 thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts. So glad it was helpful and could save you a little $ to put elsewhere. I wish there was a way we could all share the gear we get - like take pictures and share examples of how it sounds. My goal is to share the sound of every piece of gear out there, but there's just so much stuff!
hardware 3d nd alive
Hardware is almost 50X the price lol. The software is amazing for even coming kinda close
Thanks for the video. There is no competition to me. 3D vs 2D. Life vs dull
Yawn. Heard this crap for years and never seen a blind test back it up once.
Hi @JonMuro1! Thanks for watching and for your comment. The reason why I don't do blind tests is because they simply show you which you prefer - talk about yawn! In my videos, I'm trying to show people the difference in sound between the two. If they want a blind test, they can simply close their eyes and click anywhere in the video if they prefer to blindly choose which they like best.
@@J77199 there is no competition TO ME. Think what you want I didn't ask for your crappy reply.
@@J77199 preference is subjective, Blind test is a test of subjectivity not objective processing and quality.
Plugin sound similar but is flat 2D, Hardware is deep 3D. Plugins have still, long, long way to go.
Plugin sounds flat and not 3D like the hardware plugins are good but you can never fully get that polished sound unless the audio was process via hardware back to daw plugins are just different and can never reach analog depth
can you use it for recording / tracking as well?
Yep. You can, that's actually what it was intended for. It's ideal for recording any stereo sources like keyboards, synths, samplers, drum machines - even drum overheads.
Quite a big difference,...shame I was hoping the plugin would be closer.
Les Vegas. I love it!
@dblock94533 Yeah, it's great! Thanks so much for watching and for letting us know!
On RUclips I can hear more depth and pristine with the hardware and more width, however after downloading the files and listening in 96khz I can hear far less of a difference.
Interesting. Do you think the hardware's processing somehow has a greater impact on compressed streaming audio than the plugin?
@@LesVegasMusic I wouldn’t imagine so but who knows? Analog converting to digital vs digital converting to digital again 🤔
The only reason the 747 is famous is its tube path and high shelves. Many mastering engineers use it. Kazrog's compressor emulation fails, but that's not what I'm paying attention to.
In term of space and density the hardware is literally more intense.
We can feel harmonics and tube saturation less present in the plugin.
Is there over sampling in the plugin?
Did you using it to the maximum?
@vossflying Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. Agreed. There is oversampling and it was set to the maximum.
Surely it's named after the Boeing 747sp ha ha:) great sound from the hardware, a lot fuller, warmer, sparkle etc etc
@thesingingairlinepilot Haha! I've always wondered that myself! Of course that would be the first thing the The Singing Airline Pilot would think though! 🙂 Agreed. Personally, I'm loving the low end and midrange I'm getting from the hardware. They did a great job emulating the 32k band though. It's actually an excellent plugin. I really like it. There's no way I'll be selling the hardware though. 🙂 I know a good thing when I have it. Thanks so much for watching and leaving a comment. I really appreciate it.
@LesVegasMusic ha ha I used to watch the 747 sp when I was a child. Sadly these relics much like audio hardware are too costly to operate and end up being sold to air india... although a different tune with audio hardware he he. If my airbus a320 were nothing but touch screens and autopilot I'd be so upset as an aviator... fortunately I still get to turn a few knobs and put the plane exactly where I need it... much like hardware with audio:) love your channel brother and your 🎶. Gabe, Las Vegas, NV
@@gabrielthesingingpilot Thanks Gabe! I'm determined to gain more insight into the model name and why it was named the VT-747sp. What does all that mean?! Everything Avalon makes feels inspired by planes and aviation. Even the company name Avalon draws comparisons to the word Aviation. I'll come back to this comment and let you know what I find out! Thanks for being part of the community, love having you here. ✌🏼❤
@LesVegasMusic VT would surely be Vacuum Tube. 747 sounds awesome that's why Boeing chose it and SP would be something like special performance :) thanks Les all the best and keep up the good work
@thesingingairlinepilot Vacuum Tube for sure! Yes. 747 sounds excellent! SP = Signal Path? Maybe 747 has something to do with 'Twin' so it would be Vacuum Tube Twin Signal Path? Interesting!
When hardware is playing it's louder,so that means it's not a proper test
Hi @Mio-fu1sr! Thanks for watching and for your comment. That would be true, if that was the case. However, all recordings were precisely level matched. What you're hearing, is the hardware having a perceived increase in loudness but it's definitely not louder as you can see from my screen recording of Expose at 2:06 where each recording is precisely level matched to -16 INT LUFS. It doesn't get any more closely level matched than that. Please let me know if there's a better, more accurate way to level match the recordings.
@LesVegasMusic i understand that but...u should have make it musically equal because the saturation, distortion and clipping of electrical circuit of the hardware makes it louder in fact it is,u can measure it but if i perceive that as a louder signal that means it is only because it's cleaner,it's electrified and it's clipped...for the sake of an experiment,make it even(by ear),and than we will talk how different it is...this pugin lack's the warmth thru the hole spectrum even in the hi's and more delay with a little bit of chorus to create that 3d space...that's it...
p.s.the perceived loudnes of the both signals it's not the same...that's the summary of my elaboration
Ok. So, you prefer level matching by ear so that technically, the hardware will be quieter than the plugin when measured in LUFS, then it would be a fair comparison? Hmm. Well, I'm certain the hardware will still sound the same way it does now while technically quieter than the plugin. This is the reason I provide the 96k/32 bit wav files for download so people can compare however they prefer in their DAWs. For me, I prefer to do a fair test where all recordings are equal in volume using a measurement tool instead of by ear. There needs to be a way to fairly match the levels because I can adjust them so that you agree they sound equal in volume, but there will always be someone who will say they still aren't equally level matched - in which case, they would most likely be correct if the level matching was done by ear. I hope you will download the files, compare as you like, and come back to this post and let us know which you preferred.
@LesVegasMusic u say that ferrari and yugo are both cars so they can race...i say put the ferrari motor inside the yugo and than race it
@Mio-fu1sr that's weird. Same engine. Different body. One will be faster than the other. I say two of the same car in every way, then race them. Oh, and same driver too!
Hardware is slightly more wider.
slightly ? it's night and day unfortunatly
@kitmateyawa7829 and @bresk13 thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@bresk13 I was on my bluetooth headphones so.
The hardware sounds perfect.....the ITB-software version needs an EQ plugin like Softube EQ1 or PA's Kirchhoff EQ as a HF booster to match to the same. Still not too shabby for ITB though!
@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY Do you feel the same way when you listen to the EQ only passes starting at 3:35? I thought the high shelf bands were really quite good! Though it lacks a bit directly compared to the hardware like this, I definitely think it captures the sheen and vibe quite well.
@@LesVegasMusic oh sh*t is it me or does it really sound exactly the same @ this timestamp? The earlier instances I still stick to my guns LoL
@@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY Send me the time stamp again. I want to hear what you're hearing! Do you mean at the timestamp 3:35 that I posted above?
the difference are negligible depends on what you like .
@marcusgarveyson Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts. Good analysis.
Great!
Acustica Amber 3 and kazrog avalon747 which is better?
Oooo. Not sure. I haven't tried those. Although I think those are a bit different because I think they're based on the Avalon AD2055 equalizer and Avalon AD2044. I guess I'll have to get my hands on a pair of those now!
@@LesVegasMusic oh ok Bro, please give me feedback on them
Avalon
@@Paulkruz1 😊👍
Did you have the plugin set to 32 times oversampling ??
@Free2010Spirit Thanks for watching and for the question. Yes it was. Oversampling settings were set to Online 2x / Offline 32x.
Be careful when enabling oversampling, it will create dangerous digital artifacts when using the EQ!
The Plugin creates a mysterious flair and creates a certain hypnosis in the sound while the hardware exudes sickening vibrancy that crumbles your brain
Haha. Thank you @mannismutter6601!
I'll have whatever he's having.
Nice comparison! The hardware introduces an audible lower midrange push and rolloff in the highs. The plugin is cleaner. EQ on both hardware and software sound very similar.
Although the eq in the plug-in sounds very different.
No comparison, hardware all the way.
@anthonyalexander7246 Thanks for watching and letting us know what you think! 🙌🏼
Completely agree.
Theirs another review that does specific frequency analysis it’s very accurate on high end by 1db and closer to 5 db on low and 3db mids , just account for that and your pretty close to the hardware, 99% of people don’t have high end speakers and even then it’s not that noticeable.
@shanebullard7995 Yes! It is very close when you're looking at EQ curves. It's easy to match EQ curves of nearly anything in the box. You just miss the sound of the electronics in the hardware. It sounds really cool on some stuff and you realize this is why some stuff on TV, movies and radio sounds the way it does. It's just this little touch of electronics that you're hearing that gives it that "analog mojo" that's hard to get in the box. But like you said, the listeners don't care. It's just the audio professionals who are always in pursuit of perfecting their craft that care. You can make incredible sounding stuff in the box today and you can make great sounding stuff in the analog world as always. I think we have the best of both worlds today by doing most everything in the box, but I find having one or two key stereo analog processors on the mix bus or in the mastering chain really takes things to the next level. It also really matters in the tracking process to have one or two good analog channel strips with a preamp, EQ and compressor. One good analog channel strip for tracking and a good stereo EQ compressor on the mix bus like this one - everything else in the box and boom! You're there. Right where you want to be. At least, that's how it is for me! 🙂
@@LesVegasMusic Good point, I still think hardware If you can get it then get it. Plug-ins haven’t fully been able to fully capture that aspect of what happens when the frequencies travel through the circuitry of analog gear.
Plugin just sounds like it has a soothe 2 in the effects rack 😂
Yeah. Less dimension and more smear
The diference is thousand of dollars😂
Very similar, not same, but very similar. Thanx.
@rickblackers88 You're welcome and I agree 💯! Thanks for watching and for letting us know what you thought.
Levels are not matched. So the whole test is irrelevant.
Or… if you’re good… you can listen to something that isn’t completely level matched and still hear the differences without being biased by loudness.
@pac0re all levels are precisely level matched to -16 INT LUFS. I even included the results in Expose at 2:06. What more can I do?
@@Skkyyyyyyyyyyytoo bad you aren't one of those. None of the settings were matched to the specific hardware device he was testing against, and they never can truly be matched. Your whole argument is flawed, sorry... not sorry. Thus because of the difference in an individuals ear response, more bass for example will change the dynamic response of each of your ears and the frequency response which will make you hear certain elements as louder, warmer, tinnier, wider, phasy or whatever. On top of that you have your biased interpretations of what you find pleasing to listen to and this varies based on your energy levels, or even how loud something is, like bass... this will also influence your preference.
I understand this may come off as a bit aggressive, but neither of us have magic ears that is a scientific guarantee. The test is FLAWED due to it being in a completely uncontrolled environment. The only accurate approach to match it to the hardware would be if they modelled the plugin to a single unit which they did not, therefore no settings will ever match to any unit in existence.
@@pac0reSYBAU
@@paulbrown4598😂😂😂
They are completely different, not even remotely similar to each other. There seems to be an issue with the setup, or the plugin is simply garbage. Are you using the same converters for each take?
@tav_cr Yes. I am. Dangerous Music AD+ mastering converter at 96k. I'd say compare the recordings at maximum EQ settings and take into account what Kazrog said in the comment pinned to the top of this comments section.
Life vs Lifeless
@carlosp.1846 Haha. Thanks for watching and letting us know what you thought. I appreciate it. ✌🏼❤️
差别太明显，清晰度不在一个级别
Really not even close for me. The plugin is muffled. Sounds like a speaker turned against the wall. I agree with the comment stop trying to copy hardware and ridding the coat tails
of another product and just make a good plugin. I get the marketing but it doesn't make you look good when you fall short.
@duke2duke2 thank you for watching and taking the time to share your thoughts! I really appreciate it.
Listening to this on the speakers of my cell phone. I can tell how bad these plugins sound.
@doulos5322 Hi! Thanks for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. Yeah, the difference isn't subtle is it. My wife said she could hear the difference on the speakers in our car as well. I'm sure if I wasn't matching the positions of the knobs and sliders on the hardware and plugin, and I was just matching the sound by ear, I could get them sounding closer. But, I kind of like knowing that if I want to boost 24 dB on the 15Hz band for example, it's going to sound the same on both the plugin and hardware. But as it is now, it doesn't.
@moodoom The plugin does sound great! What did I do in the video that made it bias towards the hardware? That was not my intention at all. Though I love analog hardware, I'm all about plugins and is what I came up on for the past 30 years. If anything, after level matching them and comparing for myself, I thought the video may be biased towards the plugin because the 32k band matched so closely and the 15Hz and 125 Hz bands on the plugin had more bass when at their maximum settings (which I thought people may prefer). If there's anything you feel I can do differently going forward to not show a bias towards either the hardware or the plugins in my videos, please share. I'm always learning, and looking for ways to grow and improve. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it.
@@moodoom
The plugin sounds horrible. Hell, I'd rather use an Alesis 3630
@@moodoom
I love lo fi. I love 12 bit old Ensoniq ASR 10 samplers and 8 track cassette recorders and its dirty eq section. I would never use a plugin on my music..l love the dirt of the Alesis compressor, l love the dirt of the Joe Meek eqs, l love the weird sound of the aphex aural exciter, l love the unpredictable sound of the 8 track cassette and its slight pitch variations, because you never know what you're gonna get or how the song is gonna come out. For the music l do, kinda, psychedelic funk, plugin eqs and compressors just don't cut it..
@@dannydaniel8975 Bruh you are talking stupid you automatically lost when you said you wouldn't put a plugin on music, bruh you are just a hardware cuck your argument is now invalid.
This plugin gimmick is really getting on my balls... why can't plugin manufacturers understand that their shit just doesn't compare to REAL THING, how often do tests have to prove that??? ... just does something good and original instead of copies of some luxury equipment ...
@kyronnewbury Haha. Yes. Some 💯 in the box. Others, hybrid. And even more top mastering engineers are still using analog hardware. Don't let 'em fool you bro! They all still love the sound of analog, the mixing engineers just hate analog for recalls. And don't forget about recording engineers! No top recording engineers are using plugins to record on the way in, they're all using analog hardware. That's what I bought it for primarily, recording synths, samplers and drum machines. It's just a bonus that it has excellent low and high shelf EQ bands for mix bus processing and mastering. I've actually been 💯 in the box since 1994! Haha. It's just until now and over the past few years when I could start to afford the hardware that I've come to appreciate the advantages, but I'm still primarily in the box when it comes to mixing. I just use hardware for recording, the mix bus and mastering. Did you prefer the sound of the plugin compared to the hardware in this video?
@@kyronnewbury this is so stupid, still buying that shit bro?
Same shit always say I’ve been ITB for a long time until I went the hybrid route plugin can never meet hardware period even with all it’s oversampling it’s always dull and lifeless and require saturation which again does not sound good as hardware saturation plugins sound 2D and hardware sound 3D with depth and polish. No offence it took me a long time to save up for hardware I think that people who say those things are jealous they don’t have hardware so they say that to make them selfs feel better not saying you can’t make good music with plugins it’s just not the same
plug in, is just a toy
@MrFernando311 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Very bad plugin, WIN HARDWARE !
I am getting plugin over the hardware...not worth all that extra money
@eugenemedina5261 Good call! Save the scrilla for something else more important.
Man...delete that horrible plugin. Hopefully, you didn't use it on your music
M.A.G.A. make analog great again.
@dannydaniel8975 Haha! M.A.G.A! 🙌🏼 Naaa, just testing it out on a few mixes. For as long as I have the hardware sitting here next to me, I'll continue to use that. Thanks for watching and for your comment. I really appreciate it.
That hardware was never impressive to begin with. Only bling oriented people ever bought it. The Las Vegas or Dubai version of high-end, so to speak. It was usually never plugged in at the studios I worked. But guitar center pushed them on people with more money than ears, I guess.
@hepphepps8356 Haha. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I've never met anyone at guitar center who knew what they were talking about when it came to recording, mixing or mastering anyway have you? I only know of it from its use in high end mastering studios myself. It's actually excellent for recording any stereo source as well.
I agree . is like the monitors , the genelec are popular because everyone have them , protocols is the "standard" ... Nah . just dumbness
People only make these ‘comparison’ videos to show off their gear.
No plug-in sounds better than a hardware unit.
None. Zero. Zilch.
These comparisons are useless whether level matched or not.
@tkelong3569 Thanks for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. I really appreciate it. That's not the case with me though brother. If I wanted to show off my gear, I think I'd probably just take pictures of it, or do a studio tour video. I make these videos to give people access to hear how expensive and sometimes rare analog hardware sounds - something they may never have access to. That's the primary thing I want to do for people with these videos, because for 30 years, I never had the means or access to gear like this, and I always had to use the plugin emulations with no idea of how the original hardware sounded or how it compared in any way. I wanted to know if the plugins I was using, sounded as good or the same as the original hardware, or if the hardware sounded better - and if so, in what ways. I wanted to know if I was missing out on anything and if I was, I wanted to be able to make a decision if it was worth saving up and spending a lot of money on the hardware, or if the plugins worked for me just as well. That's why I do these videos. I want to give people access to that.
The hardware simply has more depth and the highs seem more natural
@frankensteinhiphop yeah, I think it's the whole real tube thing that makes it sound more 'natural'. I mean, it can't help but sound different passing through physical electronics rather than 1's and 0's right? 🤔
@@LesVegasMusic - I have quite a few plugins and they are capable but yeah there’s a difference. Not to mention when u try and run them in parallel processing I’ve been doing more and more on how it imparts latency into the signal and I have a power computer. There’s just a beauty in how analog works together of course the recall ability of ITB is undeniable. Plugins like this have come along way for sure but are still not there let’s face it if they were hardware would be deemed obsolete
It's more about if you can't afford the hardware does the software improve your recordings/mix. It's giving people who can't afford the hardware access.