I'm an active non-member, and the reluctance of the church to fight against the covid craziness was a little disappointing. I still regularly use the term "Mormon", and I don't think I've actually run into anyone in the 2 wards I've been in who feels at all offended by the terminology. "Mormon" actually has really good branding.
It’s not the Church’s job to fight against the Covid craziness. It’s ours. The Church’s job is to bind people to Christ through ordinances. It can’t do that if it gets political.
@@lw1959there was literally nothing more political than their participation in the covid craziness. They locked stepped themselves with governments and literally advised us to follow wise govt leaders. To stay out of politics would have been to provide spiritual guidance only and keep holding church. But they just kept doubling down.
@@lw1959 That is weak reasoning. It’s not that the church didn’t fight the Covid craziness. It’s that the church was fighting on the wrong side of the craziness. The church was not simply sitting as a neutral party.
My wife and I gave our children beautiful, strong, family-honoring full names. Apart from blessings and ordinances, and the odd scenario here or there, we call our children by a litany of nicknames that each one has grown into. The nicknames even change as they grow older. Grandpas and uncles call them X…. Grandmas and aunts call them Y….. friends call them Z. We as a collective, restored church have a true and proper name given to us by our true and proper leader. Our earthly church and its earthly, though divinely inspired, leaders are just doing their best to lead us in a way the Lord might have us lead. I am comfortable existing in a gray area regarding church leaders contending with one another regarding how the institution of the church markets itself. I am also comfortable with, and frequently use, the term “Mormon” in various contexts when communicating with non-members because there are more important points and connections I hope to communicate with them than insisting on policing language. I find that human connection and relationship building allows me to be as good a disciple of Christ as I can be. More so than insisting on people, both in-group and out-group, refer to me in a certain way. All this said, I try to be humble and open to correction when necessary.
I appreciate that you are flexible in certain situations. Imagine if Ammon had refused to roll with the term "Great Spirit" while teaching King Lamoni. It's hard for me to see that as a great win for Satan, but I'm just trying to follow the prophet on this one.
I agree with you. the Savior reminds us it’s his Church through our covenants and obedience to the ordinances of the gospel If we misstep in saying the correct name it’s not a blight on our souls he loves us and knows our hearts I loved all you’ve said it brings it full circle ⭕️ it never negates what the Prophet has said about the name .
I'm not offended by someone saying Mormon. I'm a Christian. I'm also a Latter-Day Saint. They're all synonymous. Let's not get caught up in the technicalities that don't have real impact on identity politics or sharing the gospel. If they still don't know what church I belong to, sure I'll say the whole name of the church.
I agree with you on this one. Personally, calling members “Saints” or “Mormons” doesn’t seem like an issue if we always refer to the church using its full name. Go over to Ward Radio’s comment section and you’ll find 2-3 Saints that post cringeworthy rebukes and condemnations of the hosts on every video just because they occasionally use the word Mormon in video titles or keywords for the algo. I read one nasty rebuke from someone called “LadyG” that said the hosts were going to be damned to hell if they didn’t stop using the word and she posts similar rebukes on content from all of the popular LDS channels on RUclips. Abandoning the word Mormon after using it forever just makes it so investigators almost exclusively find anti-Mormon content in their top search results online and RUclips. Is that being a wise and faithful servant to cede the word Mormon to the apostates online? I’ll add my personal experience. I was a lukewarm member in the church for several years until I came across a radio show that also plays RUclips called, Midnight Mormons (now called Ward Radio because they wanted to follow the prophets counsel). I found it because I searched for Mormon shows. If they had been called Ward radio back then, I may never had found them. Their content brought me back to full activity. Just a thought to consider.
@@CryptoCPA COVID doesn’t count. The letter was a suggestion. But one can take a revelation from the prophet and discard it as not being one because they disagree. Happens in the Church all the time. Getting the vaccine wasn’t a sin. I got mine before the letter. COVID was politicized by the Church because of anti Trump hate. Same with his getting the vaccine out. There is a distinction between revelation, opinion and counsel. That I agree with. But the fact is, both the Church and non members in the US politicized the vaccine and caused contention over it.
Yeah, if they could just post some good stuff instead of all the obviously stupid wrong ideas they present as fact. They have fun though, so there is that. Their knowledge just sucks though...
It doesn’t bother me at all that I’m not a legal member of the corporation. My membership has never been dependent on whether the world recognizes it. The legal structure of The Church is only there to facilitate interaction with other legal entities in the world. When The King returns, He will bring a new legal structure along with Him, and I am a member of that legal structure, which is the only one that will not ultimately fail.
I would like to know your opinion on the phrasing used by the church for "legally and lawfully wed" to describe marriage socially and inside the church.
I have wondered but never really looked into who decided to give the church a dead body (corpse) created by the corporatized gov't. So much interesting stuff we just aren't taught about unless we search for it.
@@dudeofdixiethe church uses that language because the society uses it. Hardly anyone knows what a legal marriage is. At least what God considers to be legal. They go with what that"other" god says is legal or illegal, which makes them the children of the devil instead of children of the God of Abraham. Someone please prove me wrong.
When I joined the Church, in 1968, I loved the full correct name of the Church and loved to say it. It reminded me that this IS the restored Church of Jesus Christ!
@@aaronguerrero8559 It served its purpose… God does all things in His wisdom and purposes. I love how we are focused on the true name not some nickname our enemies gave us. What do you think? ❤️☀️
@@Whatiftheresmore1314 I served my mission from 2013-2015 in Guatemala so the I am a Mormon campaign was a huge part of the mission experience. I am confused why the prophet at the time would move forward with the “i am a Mormon” campaign when a decade later the prophet would move in a different direction. Doesn’t the prophet have enough foresight to see what god would want in the future?
@@Whatiftheresmore1314 I served my mission from 2013-2015 and the I am a Mormon campaign was a huge part of the mission experience. I am confused as to why one prophet would move forward with the “I am a Mormon” message when a decade later the prophet moves in a different direction. Shouldn’t the prophet be able to discern what god’s plan is for the future?
I am American. Well, technically I am an American citizen. Well, technically technically I am a citizen of the United States of America. Back to "I am American". But, actually I am North American ... but, not Canadian ... so, I am North American, with a qualifier. Can South Americans identify as American? Or is that Cultural Appropriation? Wokesters hate appropriation. Nah, South Americans cannot call themselves 'American'. Some Evangelicals won't allow me to call myself Christian. Because, appearantly 17 centuries ago a bunch of Athanasian-ite Constantinian priests dictated the definition of Christian as a person who believes in their (pre-electricity, pre-American-continent, pre-germ-theory, pre-internal-combustion-engine) version of the Eternal God, who is everywhere but nowhere ... simultaneously. Meantime, Einstein had a problem with Quantum Entanglement aka Spooky Action at a Distance, because he could not wrap his brain around the concept. Just called me LDS. Ya, I like the Saint moniker. So, if 'Mormon' is out as a name identifier, and if 'Christian' has been co-opted by the Evangelicals, you can call me a "1st century classical Christian, with old world Jewish Lehi roots, and a progressive Prophet Mormon ideology" ... Or, LDS will suffice.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I wanted to share something I originally shared with some missionaries: The controversy over the name of the Church got brought up again, so I reviewed this talk. Once again, people are mistakenly assuming that the takeaway from this talk is that using the term "Mormon" is "a major victory for Satan". That's not what the talk is about, nor what it even says. It's the absence of the Lord's name from the Lord's Church that is a major victory for Satan, not the term "Mormon". Here's what I want to emphasize. Because people have mistakenly assumed that "Mormon" is bad, they just shifted to another term, "Latter-day Saints". This has the same issue, the absence of the Lord's name. Satan just bamboozled you! Now, you may be thinking, "But Zach, in the first sentence of the third to last paragraph of the talk, President Nelson refers to us simply as 'the Latter-day Saints'!" Well, hypothetical missionary, that's very astute of you, but notice what President Nelson *also* said a paragraph earlier: "If someone asks, 'Are you a Latter-day Saint?' you might respond, 'Yes, I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and am a member of His restored Church.'" While President Nelson uses that term, he is certain to include the presence of the Lord's name. This is why I'll often tell people the correct name of the Church, but if after the fact they continue to use the term "Mormon", I don't feel the need to continually correct them, especially if it's obvious they're doing it on purpose. At that point, I've already included the presence of the Lord's name, and will likely continue to bring Him up. Of course, this is all my opinion. Y'all are free to disagree. Just thought I'd share some insights EDIT: He actually touched on the topic of my comment in 36:25 . I had originally commented about halfway through the video
Here's another: More insights on the name of the Church. I've noticed many anti having a field day over President Nelson's push to say the correct name of the Church, especially this statement: "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan." They like prancing around and talking about all the times the word "Mormon" was used positively in the past. However, I've been thinking about this a bit differently. I've never really had a problem with the term "Mormon", especially with using it as an umbrella term. As usual, I think Anti are misunderstanding. It's not the term "Mormon" that's bad, it's the absence of the name of Jesus Christ that is bad, which is actually what President Nelson is saying. If we get too caught up in not saying "Mormon", that leads to caricatures like replacing "The Book of Mormon" with "The Book of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Just some thoughts I had
And another: Here's a thought I had today. Have you ever heard the Church criticized for not mentioning Christ "enough"? And then those same people turn around and say they don't understand why we don't like to use the term "Mormon" anymore? It's the same principle. We want to use the full name of the Church because doing otherwise removes the name of Christ. We want to say His name more, not less
I just wonder why Mormon was taken away from the Tabernacle Choir because it wasn’t replaced with the name of Jesus Christ. Mormon was just taken away insinuating the word is bad.
You can’t have it both ways…Mormon church was fine under past prophets and not under newest prophet. If no prophet can lead the church astray than they’re either all right or their all wrong. I find it tragic that so many brought people unto Christ using into the Mormon church and then suddenly we’re calling that a victory for satan. It makes no sense. I think it’s awful to see the latest prophet disrespecting the very predecessors that he claimed to sustain, as wrong. That’s a lot of people he is throwing under the bus. What are we members supposed to do with that. How do we trust any past or present prophet when they don’t trust each other?
Boy your way over doing this topic. I did not get the the jab either but never thought via the prophet was looking at me as less valiant. Why is it so hard for you to just follow a simple thing like this, it's not that hard. He wants us to focus on Christ. I personally have told non members I am a member of.... They normally always come back with surprise when the learn this full name of the church is also Mormon. That is a sign to me we need to use the full name of the church far more often, or better, always. So chill dude, relax and enjoy life.
The “Mormon is a major victory for Satan” claim Nelson made was a jarring declaration that further solidified that prophets really can lead the people astray. You did a great job breaking this down. I, too, have been on the bandwagon of saying that Nelson called us to be anti-Mormons. People, please use your discernment and don’t be afraid to call a spade a spade.
Nelson never made the claim that "Mormon is a major victory for Satan". And even if he's wrong, it doesn't constitute "lead[ing] the people astray" in an "Official Declaration 1" sense, as I'm sure Connor would agree
right! a mormon is a mormon. and the mormon church IS the mormon church, as well as the CofJCofLDS, as well as the Restored Church of Jesus CHrist, as well as the Church of CHrist, as well as the LDS church , as well as etc., etc., as you can read from church history.
@@MrBillmechanic I would argue that there isn't "the" Mormon church, only "a" Mormon Church. The LDS, RLDS, FLDS, etc, all fall under the umbrella of Mormonism
Calling someone mormon is like calling a woman the b or c word it's not as bad as calling someone the N word but all the words are not terms of endearment. If your white and driving down the road listening to rap you might not want to have the windows down and singing along to the N word. Now we always wonder why people don't want to be called the n word bit use it themselves? Apply that to the n word . Then think how they used mormon on Southpark it wasn't a term of endearment
Hi connor. I'm an active and in good standing member, temple recommend holding, TBM of some 45 or so years now, and I've just recently discovered your channel. As with all the other subject matter I've heard you talk about so far, I think you just hit it right out of the park, with this video. Spot-on, and very well done, good sir. Keep up the good work. I very much appreciate it- as I can only imagine, many of your other listeners must also---
Nelson’s wife, 2nd and quite a bit younger just out’d his wants, thoughts and desires! And these were things he wanted before he was the prophet, which begs the idea, is it his interests or is it by divine inspiration for the direction of the church?🧐 very curious
@@rickfowlks7296 That is not an unprecedented occurance. Lorenzo Snow received the impression that "As man is, God once was...." before he became President but did not enunciate it at that time because he did not then have the authority to speak for the Church.
The phase of the the church ending with the Meet the Mormons campaign was the last welcoming and inclusive era. As cheesy as the campaign was and how marketing-ish it felt, we were a team - inclusive, celebrating growth and activity of all kinds of people. It felt good to be a member. We’ve settled into a phase, especially post covid where we’re adversarial and stodgy. We have to be called by a certain name, have a certain steeple height on our temples and insist that we’re the most Christian of the Christians because our church name says so and because we donate the most money (giving machines). We lost internal camaraderie in the name of an outward facing impression. Why do we care so much what other people think? We’d be stronger if we were spending much more time building Zion internally. I agree that we have many more important fish to fry. Nelson fulfilled his grudge but at what cost? The irony now is, of course that social media content using the keyword Mormon is some of the most profitable content out there. Plenty of anti-Mormons making a lot of money off a word that used to be held dear by so many of us.
At what cost is something I'd like to see, as in the amount of money that's been used. I'm sure President Nelson has spared no church expense on his campaign. It's easy to spend other people's money.
Is this a Utah problem? Having lived in several wards in several stakes east of the Rockies since Nelson’s talk, the “social” problems being described in this musing are non-existent. No one gets judgy if we refer to ourselves as Mormon, no one turns into a Karen if someone calls them a Mormon. We’re just people doing our best to follow Christ, and to follow the spirit of what the prophets encourage us to do. If this is what Utah church culture is like, I’ve never been more grateful to live outside of it.
There's a bit if you live close enough to one of the FLDS or similarly polygamous cities or enclaves. There can also be a problem if local Protestant pastors like pushing things like "The Godmakers" around.
There was a guy in our ward in Texas who was getting like this- and most of us just asked that he live and let live. Just like Connor pointed out here, we pointed out that the saints throughout the primitive church were called by their geographical location- Corinth, Ephesus, Rome. The members of the church in the Nephite dispensation were called Nephites. Obviously they were all saints and members of the Church of Jesus Christ. I AGREE that the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and it should be used whenever we refer to the church itself. I also know that neither Hinckley nor Monson had issues with 'Mormon' as a moniker when referring to members. I still use LDS and Mormon in my vocabulary.
Out west people love to display their righteousness by correcting you if you say Mormon, “Um, Aktchually… it’s the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”😂 Also tends to be the people who love bragging about getting the “jovid cab” and might still be seen wearing a mask
Much like the push to gave women qear pants ro church, a lot of this ONLY makes sense in Utah, and especially Provo and SLC. President Nelson also cautioned us about being myopic. We tend to get very myopic this close to the church office buildings. Out side this weird little circle so much of our drama doesn't matter.
“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316)
A word that comes up in the scriptures, mostly in the Doctrine and Covenants, is "Expedient" (fit, or suitable for a purpose, proper under the circumstances). Perhaps, it was expedient to use Mormon in the past as well as expedient to use the proper name of the Church now.
You called it "the Church" and removed the name of Jesus Christ. Interesting. Perhaps it was expedient for you to have a practical way of using a term that condenses the information from a longer term that contains more information. In the world of internet and social media, it is still expedient to have a compressed way to express who the church is without the unnecessary use of the entire name of the Church each time you refer to it.
I'm still stuck on "Mormon" or "latter day saints" I'll never use the whole name. It's hilarious Hinkley called Nelson out Like that🤣🤣. It's true to that name change has caused division.
Defending the Savior is always a good thing, and I see Russell Nelson defending his Savior. The “President Nelson is leading the Church astray” crowd needs to chill.
All of this legal maneuvering and branding is not faith promoting to me. As I read about the life of Christ and his words in the scriptures, I doubt that he is the kind of being who would be interested in legal entities, lawyers, lawsuits, and investments. He certainly does not need money. Am I wrong?
I have loved the focused effort on using Jesus’ name more. It has done me good to say His name and His words more often. Mormon doesn’t do that. Given I tactfully use the word when needed as it has its roots in our culture and is what many people still know us by.
That's offensive! His name is not "Jesus" and saying that is offensive! It's Yeshua and if you're not saying Yeshua but, instead, are saying the bastardized "Jesus" you have gone off course and are part of the evil! It's "The Church of Yeshua Son of Joseph the One Messiah or Christ of the Earth and Universe of Latter-Day Saints"!!! GET IT RIGHT!!!
The only question I see here is; "Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, seer, and revelator and the only person on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?" All I know is that when I raise my arm to the square I am sustaining a Prophet of God. I don't always understand why we are told to do certain things, but I do understand that our Prophets, seers and revelators are the watchmen on the walls and they can see what's coming far better than we can.
One must be careful, because the church throughout history has become corrupted. And a cause of that corruption are people blindly following the leaders who drifted away from the gospel til it was lost. The same thing can happen again if we aren't familiar with scripture and willing to point out and discuss when we see discrepancies between what today's leaders are saying, and the long history we have in the scriptures.
@johnsonsadventurers Read Joshua 9. Sometimes, a prophet does things without consulting with the Lord. This doesn't make them fallen prophets it shows that they are human and can make mistakes. In Joshua 9, he makes a treaty with some canaanites pretending to come from a far away land. (Josh 9:14-16) And the men took of their victuals, and asked not counsel at the mouth of the Lord. 15 And Joshua made peace with them, and made a league with them, to let them live: and the princes of the congregation sware unto them. 16 ¶ And it came to pass at the end of three days after they had made a league with them, that they heard that they were their neighbours, and that they dwelt among them.
You know what I see as strange? Why only one? If God has the same message he's trying to get out he can use multiple people. It would be a sign of 2 or 3 witnesses, not 2 or 3 read it from the teleprompters. I don't believe he is a prophet anymore. The one who deceives the most will be the hardest to detect. I have gone through the last 4 years since Covid jabs and prayed and struggled to finally come out on the other end with the answer. The thing I'm finding is, within the church doesn't it sound blasphemous to say it? Isn't that weird though? It should be blasphemous to say God isn't our God, but we have looked more to the prophet as a God then God himself! Our religion has fallen from the teachings of the Book of Mormon. I think Helaman and Captain Moroni would be in agony for us for not standing up for our freedom and doing the right thing to fight for our liberties, our faith, our freedom and our families.
The anti-Mormon sentiment primarily comes from evangelical Christian leaders zeros in on our calling ourselves Mormons! They are thinking, checkmate, you’re not Christian! It’s all about missionary work and the target audience and the language that they speak. no sincere member of the church cares about being offended by what they are called. It’s not about that at all. It’s about missionary work.
the word "Mormon" is used as a pejorative all the time. "Oh, you're a Mormon, hu? Where do you keep all your wives?" Dude, if you've never heard Mormon used as a pejorative you must be in a coma from birth or something
A lot of Evangelical Protestants use Mormon as a pejorative, along with the anti-Mormon literature they push. In addition, if you're anywhere near the FLDS groups, there tends to be some bad feelings what with all the ones who escape them feel. One of my gaming friends complained about getting a reputation as a lawyer known for getting people out of Mormon groups. I clarified with him he meant the bad Mormons like the FLDS, and he agreed.
It was originally a slur that the early members turned to their use (here in the Bible Belt, it's still used by some as a slur). "Yeah, I'm Mormon and I'm proud of it." As you tell children to just ignore bad behavior and they will tire of pestering you.
My first thought was "and I've always been proud to use the word Mormon as I am a convert and was a Mormon boy and now I am a Mormon man" my first thought in listening to your presentation was the word "transition" I think President Nelson is trying to get the point across that Literally "thus shall my church be called in the latter days! I see a winding down I think we are 10 years away from the quickening I think the second coming is right around 2000 years after the crucifixion Which would put it plus or -2034 Who knows if the calendars spot on could be after two or three years I agree with you that I am a Mormon as a member. It sounds good. Feels good. The church that I sustained belong to is "the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints" I am also one who guided my family to not attend church for 18 months As we did not feel welcome because we did not get the shot or wear a mask My son was released from the bishopric because the state president didn't like the fact that he would not fall in line and wear a mask and get the shot On that subject, I believe there's a difference when the profit speaks on behalf of the 501 C3 and when he's speaking about "thus say, if the Lord" I think you have to read between the lines on all these things and listen to the spirit For me with regards to Covid, President Nelson was protecting the corporation from government intrusion and oversight when he encouraged members to get the shot and wear the mask The overwriting principal is Listen to the spirit to guide your personal life
Thank you for explaining a very perplexing and neck breaking course correction. A musing regarding the adoption of born-again ministering themes and wording would be interesting.
My thoughts exactly. My first thought when I heard this talk was whatever happened to the counsel that we should not be using the Lords name too lightly or be too repetitious?
Thanks for all you do, this is a discussion well worth having. At the same time, what if we look back and find that this change had some cumulative effects like separating faithful and anti channels to some degree in the algorithms so that the old tired channels can start to lose out after their head start, and as they are grasping at straws a wave of new faithful content overtakes, and in conjunction with other efforts reaches a tipping point, exponential growth, the last great gathering, then He returns. Definitely agree we shouldn't call others out/virtue signal.
I am entitled to refer to myself as a "Mormon" even though the corporate Church saw fit to expel me because my allegiances are to the doctrines of the Restoration rather than the whims of so-called "leaders." Because I embrace the Book of Mormon and the doctrines of the Restoration as promulgated through Joseph Smith, I am a Mormon. Joseph himself found the appellation acceptable, and so do I. Nicely presented, Connor.
I refer to myself as a “Metaphorical Mormon”. I’m an active non-member, and I think I’m afforded more slack because I haven’t actually gotten baptized yet - they let me show up every sunday, they’ve given me various callings, and although I still drink coffee and only “tithe” maybe 1%, I do feel accepted. It’s annoying not having access to the Tools app for communications, but I can’t be expelled from a club I didn’t join :)
@@GldnClaw I am the proprietor of a blog that condemns false traditions that have grown up in the church that have displaced the doctrines revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Here is but one example: puremormonism.blogspot.com/2022/04/why-are-you-still-calling-this-guy.html
I joined the church in 1963 at age 16. I used the full name of church but did not correct non LDS who called us Mormons. But President Kimball and President Hinckley told us to call the church by the full name so I did. What others say is what they say but as members we should use the full name of the Lord's Church especially with those not members. That is my feeling about it. By using the full name the world knows we believe in Christ and are Christians.
You could take it a step further per the words of Russell M Nelson said "Follow prophets who have been given Divine commission and speak when moved upon by the holy ghost shall be SCRIPTURE. Shall be the will of the lord and shall be the mind of the lord, shall be the word of the lord and shall be the voice of the lord". He was referring to President Hinkley BUT now for President Nelson to make such a hard course correction going against SCRIPTURE in his own words makes me concerned. When President Nelson wife spoke "He had been unleashed", "He's free to do what he came to earth to do" and "He's free to change things He's been concerned about" This language is very PRIDEFUL and I think she has forgotten who he is here to serve! If President Neslon was consistent in wanting to mention the Lord he would make a mandate not to quote or mention his own name during the next conference since he was mentioned twice as much as Jesus Christ. When Jesus says judge not less ye be judged. He's not saying suspend your critical thinking and accept everything being equally valid. Question everything!
@@Robin-ge2qc except he doesnt.....even his thing asking membera to avoid social media for a week was self serving because he dod it to hide from members that his daughter and son in law had multiple lawsuits against them for years of abuse at their house with minor aged kids being part of "touching parties"... he took that week while members werent online and the story barely broke and got quickly buried and the plantiffs all got bought off uding church funds and forced to sign NDAs so the case was dropped before it could get to court... even his story about how ans when he met his 2nd wife is a lie....she lived down the street in the same ward and was a roomate with sheri dew for years who he worked with...yet he claims he disnt even know her name till a few months after his wifes death and quickly gets married he had a ax to grind against hinckley and monson several times...evwn jokes qbout a dual between them were made in general conference after nelson gave wome weird talks going after the use of the word mormon ane then the prophet had to get up ans way he was wrong
I had the privilege of spending a couple days with Elder Anderson. 1. I have a testimony that the name correction is required to be called by him when he returns. 2. He uses, and we can use the name "Christian".
Who is “he uses and we can use the name Christian.” When can we use this? For whom? Christians? Us members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?? I am totally confused by your statement!
There were only ever 2 names of the church during Joseph's lifetime. 1. The Church of Christ - this was removed by the Lord in 1832 due to condemnation. 2. The Church of Latter Day Saints - see name on Kirkland house of the Lord and D&C on those days. This was the only name used during Joseph's lifetime. D&C 115 was printed in 1870.s by Brigham after Joseph's death. I do not believe it ever came to Joseph or he would have used the name we use today. Anything printed after Joseph's death is likely altered or a fabrication claiming it was from Joseph. Since we are still under condemnation as per Pres. Benson we should still be the Church of Latter Day Saints. Mormon is just fine and better in my opinion than what we are told to call the church, which we have no right to since 1832 when the Savior removed his name from the church. Joseph wanted to get it back and was told if they got the Nauvoo House of the Lord built he would restore his approval and grant his fulness.
The way you get people to do something (repeatedly and enmasse) is to tell them not to do it. To think that we can get people to call us by our long name is unrealistic. I am a follower of Christ.
Seems like a wasted opportunity to be a light of truth by putting out this squabbling and silly argument that so many people are fine with this so why can't President Nelson be. Well seems like God's ways are not our ways. Jesus Christ did not come here to go along with the majority. So no surprise President Nelson is being led by Jesus Christ. He is truly a light and points people to the Savior.
poisonous water in those PET bottles- don’t drink that water, but - get this- I crush Coca Cola cans and have been doing so long before P Nelson ever game up with the explicit bottle crushing instructions.
Your arguments are solid, and I share your channel whenever I find an opening. Thank you for expressing your questions as so many of yours are mine too. I pray regularly that our way will become His way eventually!
So many traditional Christians here in the Bible belt, literally think that Mormon is a new religion like Islam and is separate from Christianity. Missionary work was really frustrating when we were calling ourselves Mormons! I am totally on board with President Nelson. I had been thinking what he had been thinking for years.
A well thought out position, as I have come to expect from your musings. In general, I don't see course corrections as problematic, or conflicting with past prophets. If prophets are meant to be watchmen, it makes sense that policies will change as the facts on the ground change. Elder Holland in 2012 described our day as a time of "mighty accelerated change" in a talk titled Israel, Israel God is calling. This seems to me that it would require some significant and sometimes jarring changes. Perhaps God impressed upon president Nelson this idea long ago and allowed him to grow in it for decades, so when the time came for him to make this correction, he was able to give a well reasoned, grounded, and firm Declaration of this path. It speaks well of the church leadership that though he obviously disagreed, there was no power struggle or public contention on the matter, as there would have been in nearly every other organization on the earth, throughout all of history. I do think that members over react to the use of the name, but I do find it rather telling that nearly every anti-Mormon publication or podcast uses some form of the word Mormon, and would have no reason to change it, because they would hate to actually "follow the prophet" in this thing. That isn't to say that every publication that uses Mormon is anti, but it seems a reliable indicator. When members react to the name in unkind and judging ways, they fail to understand D&C 121. Power and influence are only maintained by persuasion, longsuffering, etc. that list does not include yelling at, condemning, or other things like that.
Being a corporation as you said, controlled by whomever is at the head, my question is… Is there a mechanism in place to remove the leader of the corporation if it is deemed necessary for some reason?
Instead of Nelson vs. Hinckly, what if Heavenly Father’s will was to do both in that specific order and timeframe. The I’m a Mormon campaign might have even been preparatory to the focus on Jesus’s name. Our target audience is evangelicals who focus heavily on taking Jesus’s name upon you and confessing his name. It’s like a chess move that we are learning to block from leading evangelical leaders attempts to keep their flock away from the Church.
thank you conner! myself and a couple friends look forward to these every sunday and love this video thank you! so grateful for a member willing to talk about stuff that doesnt like up and doesnt just suck up to the leaders in power
As someone who has left the church I really appreciate your willingness to vocalize valid criticism towards the church. I was astounded when Oaks said we as the body of the church were not allowed to be critical leadership. I think one of the biggest issues is how out of touch they are with modern times. It feels contradictory because you think they would do things to keep members but time and time again their policies have continued to show they only push people away. The Mormon thing is particularly wild because if we’re assuming the prophet actually speaks with and receives revelation directly from God then why did he never reveal how “offended” he was before Nelson during the I’m a Mormon campaign. It seems as tho God’s revelations contradict themselves or simply they don’t actually speak with God. It feels as if the church only cares about pursuing corporate assets and has since its inception which is interesting because I don’t think it was apart of Christs philosophy to use tithes to invest in the stock market illegally or fight with state governments over steeple sizes so the temple can look more glamorous.
We are not automatons. Nelson is giving us a principle that we can apply to individual actions and circumstances, in the present time and circumstances of the Church. If you simply use the term more often in this social media-driven world, you will be drawing people searching Jesus to his Church more often. The virtue signaling is a victory for Satan, but so are the losses of opportunity to bring in the Holy Spirit to more conversations.
You are missing the point! It’s about targeting evangelical Christians, who are most likely to join the church if they know that we are Christian. Many of them are taught that our answering to the name of Mormon is a sign that we are not Christian. I saw this in numerous conversations with coworkers about the church. They really do see it as a sign that we are not Christians when we answer to any other name. It sent a strong message to our target audience for missionary work that we do not accept any other name, except Jesus Christ. Evangelicals are heavy duty into taking on and confessing the name of Christ and being Christian and appearing Christian and sounding Christian.
I’m on President Nelson’s side here. I think he understands the importance of psychological and spiritual conditioning. Maybe some members can be too passionate about President Nelson’s counsel, but I don’t know.
I just say that I'm a Latter-Day Saint and if they ask further what church it was, I would say The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you would know it as the "Mormon" church. Back then, the term 'Mormon' was a derogatory term in the time of Joseph Smith. I guess as time went on, the leaders were trying to make the term used in a positive light instead to overrule the negative use of the word 'Mormon'. Same as went on for the Book Of Mormon Musical. The world has used our belief of the Book of Mormon to mock our belief, but members have turned it into an opportunity to share the Book of Mormon by inviting others to read it with captions like: "You've seen the musical, now read the book" I don't think it was ever the problem, we are just shifting and making the world more centered on Christ and it starts with us first.
@amybaker1880 The church is THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. I refer to myself as a follower of Jesus, as a saint. People seem to confuse the two. It is in the name of the church. It is His church, we are the Saints.
@amybaker1880 However you see, is how you see. If you think I'm wrong, that is your judgement which doesn't really affect me in anyway because you are NOT the Lord 😊 I admire and respect our Prophet and I know that I do, so if you think that I don't - again, that is your judgement and thankfully, I've learned not to listen to the world and only listen to what the spirit tells me to, divinely appointed sources 😊 My friend, if you are a believer of Christ, please act as He would. Return and talk to me when you have received Him. I will love you from here but will not repeat the actions you have shown me.
@@corinajane6382 You said you say you're a Latter-day Saint. How is that obeying what Nelson said? "What’s in a name or, in this case, a nickname? When it comes to nicknames of the Church, such as the “LDS Church,” the “Mormon Church,” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us-even His Atonement." I'm a believer in Christ and the BoM.
Without all of the pontificating, I have understood the differing portions of the argument since the beginning of my awareness of the subject in general. And like so many differing subjects in the Church, the bottom-line is my personal relationship to the Godhead and not my relationship to the organization, which is totally worldly and has little to do with eternity!
Mmm... is the name ' Book of Mormon' a victory for Satan? Yes, it has been clarified that it is another testament of Christ. I would argue then that a mormon is another testifier of Christ! Something to consider.
I think we can all see both sides this pretty well. It might be easier to understand if you’re living outside of Utah. Back in 2006 when I was in high school in Northern CA, I had a teacher ask me in class if Mormons believed in Jesus Christ. And the way I answered still bothers me today. I said “Are you serious?” And the I walked up to the front of the room and wrote the full name of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” on the white board and I said “That’s the name of the church, Mormons is just what people call us.” And I could tell I embarrassed him and totally shut the convo down. I could have said just about the same thing but have been less “offended” myself and less offensive. He was just curious. At the same time if I’m being perfectly honest I don’t want to be counted among the countless denominations of Christianity as “Christians”. They’ve sort of soured that idea in my mind. I’d rather just be a follower of Christ. To me a more appropriate way to approach nicknames which still seems in line with what President Nelson has said is to simply use the term Mormon when it is brought up as an opportunity to share the actual name of the church and our belief in Jesus Christ. We don’t need to use the name as a bludgeon. And to be perfectly honest it seems like we should be focusing more on retention through community, and teaching than semantics. Unpopular opinion, bring back 3-hour church, an alternative to scouting, a better young women’s program, relief society that does more together. We can’t just keep talking about building The Kingdom we actually have to do it. The bottom up approach can’t work without the proper organizational tools in place. In the world of technology this shouldn’t be a problem at all.
I think you are just playing with semantics, really. In the words of Rodney King, “can’t we just all get along?” I love this Channel so much. Thank you for making me feel like I joined something, I really didn’t, what a relief.
I’m grateful for the emphasis on the full name of the church for a few reasons, one of which I’ll share here: It is often easy to tell which videos, podcasts, or people are antagonistic toward the church by their unwillingness to use the full name of the church (the inverse is also true). I understand it’s clunky at times, but in this day and age where there is so much criticism, some of which is truthful but much of which is misleading or completely false, the name that is used by people to talk about the church is a bit of an indication of where the person lands in their attitudes toward the church and its members.
I think Pres. Nelson's direction was inspired for the time he introduced it. His desire for us to more effectively focus on Christ is righteous. The danger of excess you mention is valid, though the dangers of excess in using Mormon also potentially distances us from Christ. What type of error are you more comfortable with? I will call myself a Christian. If needed to distinguish myself, then I would describe myself as a Christian Restorationist, and then finally a Mormon. We should strive to unify to a body of Christ as much as possible.
Nelson did this same thing back in the day when Hinckley was around and Hinckley called him out for it and said he was wrong. Hinckley is not longer around to defend the use of Mormon.
As I listened to your podcast, Isaiah 4:1 came to mind. "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by the name, to take away our reproach. This scripture is not about polygamy it is about the churches in the latter days wanting to incorporate the name of Christ in order to give them more legitimacy in the eyes of the people. The people do not want to practice his doctrines, they will have their own (i.e. bread and apparel). They just want his name associated with them. As you know, the name of the Church in the beginning was the church of Christ. Later that name was removed and changed to the church of the Latter Day Saints and still later to what we have today.
Give me a break. People can't understand words even as simple as words can be. Terrible job word wrestling there. That right there is the product of a curse, because you have rejected truth. You now know nothing at all.
My honest opinion after watching this video. This feels like armchair quarterbacking brother. Whenever I think I might know better than the President, I think, would I want to take his job? And the answer is no. So I will let him do his job and I will focus on mine. I do agree with you that, as members, we shouldn't be bickering with each other over petty things like how we each decide to impliment this instruction for ourselves.
@@americathebeautiful9613 I think he was reading too much into it. I remember Hinckley talking about avoiding using the term Mormon and asking the Media to avoid using the term. Honestly, I thought it was weird that everyone was acting like it was a new thing when Nelson brought it up. I think Nelson was just taking it a step further.
I just went and checked. In a letter to church members in May of 2001, the first presidency requested that members use the full name of the Church whenevet possible and that the term Latter-day Saints was preferable when refering to members. Although they did allow for cultural terms like "Mormon tab choir." So President Nelson really just took it one step further. This was never a Hinckley vs Nelson thing.
@@americathebeautiful9613 I mean, I watched the video and saw the clips. I don't think they are jousting. Also, the first presidency letter, President Hinckley was the President and the letter was much more resent, in 2001. And it seemed more aligned with President Nelson's opinions, even though it doesn't go as far.
💯% agree that using the term ‘Mormon’ is totally appropriate and that The Church should be addressed using the full name. Similar situation as to whether members are actually ‘members’ of the Church, with Americans being actual ‘citizens’ of the United States of America, which was incorporated in the 1870s. (I’m Canadian, so uncertain as to the exact date).
In 1990 President Packer during his visit to my mission said they were trying to limit usage of the nickname "Mormon." President Hinckley NEVER said the Church should be called The Mormon Church. Look at what he said about Elder Nelson's talk in 1990. In October 1990 President Hinckley encouraged the Church to REREAD Elder Nelson's talk from six months earlier, so you risk offending the Spirit when you try to make it look like the two them are at odds. And President Nelson honored President Hinckley in his most recent conference talk. Please reconsider your approach.
Another informative and thoughtful musing. Thank you. You are a gift. I don’t think we can undo the Mormon nickname. That’s what we will be referenced as. As far as corporate status, I also considered this as a possibility.
Here is what I have observed. It is subtle, but members rather than defending Christ are defending themselves as the source of ‘all things Christ’. It has increased pride in the church. A gentle arrogance that separates us, “you will refer to me by my proper title.” It reminds me of doctors saying: “that’s doctor, I think I’ve earned it.” I am not saying all members are like this, I am saying I have observed an increase in the idea that we are the true purveyors of Christ rather than followers of Christ.
I am pleased to be a member of the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: I am also pleased to be called a “Mormon.” Mormon’s contribution to the work of salvation through his unimaginable editing of the records of the descendants of Lehi, all the while leading an unrighteousness people in battle after battle, and at the same time being a prophet to the church of Christ in his day is a marvel to me. I also sustain and support President Nelson!
Does anyone ever consider D&C 104:49-50? "You shall do your business in your own name, and in your own names." In light of this, how do we justify DBA (Doing Business As a corparation)?
@@maxilla_asini The Church Corporation represents the current prophet and therefore no one specific prophet only. But that said, they don’t own anything. The Church does, through the corporation. So the prophet represents both the Church and the Corporation of the Church. Church employees of the Corporation are separate from regular Church members callings. The employees work full time, get paid for their work and it is considered a calling by the Church as they represent it while employed. They handle tithing, hire lawyers and construction workers and consultants and contractors etc. They make investments to aid both the Church and the rest of the world including humanitarian agencies.
The Church has been trying to move into the mainstream of christianity for decades, by emphasizing Christ (which is good) but de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the restoration. I am not sure I understand the rationale.
In 2020 we celebrated the anniversary of the restoration and the church released a proclamation that you can access on the gospel library app, and this year we're studying The Book of Mormon 🤷♀️
@@DesertPrimroseI agree. But not with the OP here. How does the Church convert the entire world without going mainstream? What the Church has de-emphasized is the Great Apostasy. Not the Restoration. The Restoration continues forever. The rationale is that the Church wants all other religions to bring their truth into ours and emphasizing the Great Apostasy doesn’t do that because it declares them as being wrong. We do not have a monopoly on truth nor do we have all truth there is to know. What the Prophet is emphasizing is that the name of the Church is what we represent to others when we do the WORK of the Church. We don’t speak for the Church but we do represent it when we do the work. Outside the Church work, saying Mormon to emphasize to non members that they can only use it when not referencing the name of the Church is the point of the video, and his ok with it.
How is diverting from using the "Mormon" nickname de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the Restoration? Mormon was not directly involved with Joseph Smith nor the Restoration. He is a supportive person to the story at best.
Hi Connor. I just ran across this and thought you may find it interesting? Its in the JOD 5:21 talk. Its an interesting comparison to what you describe in this video of leaders who disagree or contradict each other. So the question arises after reading this, is who then is giving opinion or revelation? Remarks by President Brigham Young, Delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City, August 2, 1857: "I am thankful to hear the servants of God speak; and, as I have frequently said, I do not care what you say when you rise to speak here; for I want to know whether a man seeks with all his heart to know the mind of God concerning him. If he does, all is right with him. Brother Heber alluded to counseling men and women who come to him after they had been to me, and said that they always received the same counsel I had given them. I never have known it to fail, that if they come to me and then go to brother Heber, they will get the same counsel all the time. And so they would from every one of the Twelve, from the High Council, from the Seventies, and High Priests and every officer in the Church, if every officer in the Church would take the course that brother Heber, and I, and a few others do. What is that? Never to give counsel, unless you have it to give. If you have counsel, give it, because you can have no correct counsel except by the Spirit of revelation: that is my standard. I have no counsel for a man, unless I have the testimony of Jesus on the subject. Then, when the same man asks counsel of me, and goes to brother Heber, do you not see that if he acts on the same principle and gives counsel, it must be by the Spirit of revelation; or he has no counsel to give, if it is not by that Spirit. Then let the same man go to brother Wells and ask his counsel on the same subject, without letting him know that he has been to Brigham or to Heber, and brother Daniel will give the same counsel by the same Spirit. The difficulty with regard to giving counsel that conflicts consists in men's giving counsel from their own judgment, without the Spirit of God. Every man in the kingdom of God would give the same counsel upon each subject, if he would wait until he had the mind of Christ upon it. Then all would have one word and mind, and each man would see eye to eye. But there is a weakness in the brethren, and it is in mankind in general. You ask almost any person in the world a question, and he thinks it a disgrace to be unable to answer it. He feels chagrined, his mind flags, when he finds that he is not quite as knowing as his neighbors think him to be; and, to avoid this, he will often venture an answer without knowing the facts in the case, or the effects of his answer. If you would always pause and say, I have no counsel for you, I have no answer for you on this subject, because I have no manifestation of the Spirit, and be willing to let everybody in the world know that you are ignorant when you are, you would become wise a great deal quicker than to give counsel on your own judgment, without the Spirit of revelation. If the Elders of Israel would observe this rule, never to give counsel unless they give it by the testimony of the truth, by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, and, if they cannot give counsel in that manner, not to give any, there would be no conflicting counsel in the kingdom. All would be one; counsel would be one: we would soon come to understanding and be of one heart and mind, and our blessings would be increased upon us faster than in taking any other course. May God bless you and preserve us in the truth. Amen."
I was born and raised in Anaheim California, and have live virtually my entire life outside of Utah, and never use the term Mormon in our wards and area, I always referred to myself as a Saint, Latter-day Saint, or member. As a recent member of the church's PR group, we encouraged ALL members to stop using the term Mormon, except for the Book of Mormon, which I fully agree with. Anyone who calls themself a Mormon, isn't a member of The Church of Jesus Christ, they're some non-existent group, ie, don't use Mormon's name, critics and enemies LOVE to capitalize on it.
"There is no salvation between the two lids of the Bible without a legal administrator." - Joseph Smith Considering that would apply to all volumes of scripture, including the Book of Mormon, that leaves you and other "Mormon but not LDS," "Joseph but not Brigham," or "Jesus but not the prophet" folk in a real pickle.
Thank you! I’m glad I’m not the only Mormon 😂 to feel this way. I also have wondered about the Lord’s instruction on calling His priesthood after Melchizedek. People rush through the name of the church now and His name. Every time I hear a person rush through His name by saying, “I’m a member of the Church of . . .” I cringe. I’m baffled as to why just the phrase “Latter-day Saint”is not more stressed. It sounds so much better than “Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,” which I find very redundant. It says what the members are to be called in the name of the church-Latter-day Saints. This is only four syllables, which is fewer than Jehovah Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, or Evangelical. It makes a lot more practical sense to have nonmembers use Latter Day Saint. Why the reluctance? I’m guessing members feel awkward calling themselves saints because of meaning the Catholic Church has brought on the word instead of the original meaning found in the New Testament. I think the “Anti-Mormon” campaign would have been more successful if Latter Day Saint would have been emphasized instead of saying the entire name of the church even when referring to members. That being said, “Mormon” is fine, and I still use it too. Great insight in 4 Nephi.
We have been counseled to not call ourselves "Mormons" because the name "Mormon" can and has been used as a derogatory term by Anti's to label members as less than Christian. However, the Anti's nor many of the LDS people understand the deeper meaning of the word "Mormon," nor why the Prophet Mormon chose to give the book of sacred writings this name... not because he wanted recognition for his abridgment, but for what the name represents. First, we know that even though Mormon’s father was named Mormon (Mormon 1:5), he was not referred to as Mormon the Younger, like Alma the Younger. This is because in 3 Nephi 5:12 he says, “And behold, I am called Mormon, being called after the land of Mormon, the land in which Alma did establish the church among the people, yea, the first church which was established among them after their transgression.” It was at the waters of Mormon where Alma and 204 souls made covenants and were baptized in the name of the Lord as a witness before him (Mosiah 18:5, 7-11). Thus the covenants were restored. The prophet Mormon would have understood the Egyptian meaning of the word Mormon, and also the Hebrew word that would have represented that meaning. Mormon’s name is a combination of two ancient Egyptian words: mr, which means “Mary” or “love,” depending on the context, and mn, which means “enduring” and “everlasting.” Therefore, the two words combined means “love that endures forever.” This love is often translated as charity (that never faileth; 1 Cor. 13:8), and in Hebrew it is known as Chesed, which is the love of God that endures forever, as described by Mormon in Moroni 7:47-48. Mormon tells us we must pray with all the energy of our heart to be filled with Charity, for without it we cannot be like God, nor be with God (Ether 12:34). Therefore, the true meaning of "Mormon" could be interpreted as: God's Love that Endures Forever through His Restored Covenants.
Fundamental: Follow the CURRENT prophet! When Pres. Benson became the president of the Church, then Elder Packer commented that now he, Pres. Benson, was free to bring all church expenditures under tithing, something he had wanted to do for awhile. And apparently it was known by the brethren that that had been his desire. This isn’t new. It is the Lord who chooses His prophet, and He is quite aware of his chosen servant’s vision. A great quote to remember from Pres. Holland: “Faith is for the future!”
Taylor Halverson says the root of the word Mormon may mean "Love endures forever." So, I'm not offended by it. I love the Book of Mormon which testifies of Christ. The legal stuff is bizarre. I'd like to hear more about that. I love both President Hinckley and President Nelson. I'm glad he'll be 100 years old soon and with that comes much wisdom. I pray the Lord continues to bless him for many more years. ❤
It should have nothing to do with wisdom. Has everything to do with God speaking through Man. Recall the prophet Samuel was 14 y o. As Joseph Smith was. We've been told for so long that it's OK for leaders to be really, really old because of their "wisdom". Scriptures don't support God's preference of an older man because he has wisdom, ever.
IMO, whether I am a member of the worldly legal organization through which the leaders of the church conduct the necessary affairs of the church is unimportant. I agree almost without exception to your portrayal Of President Nelson‘s emphasis regarding how the church shall be called. The name was never in doubt. In my observation, the Lord allows, his leaders some leeway in governing his church. They are mostly right most of the time, but not exactly right all of the time. As leaders, we need to be careful to seek the will of the Lord at all times and not fashion matters to our own preferences/likings, last the members within our stewardship experience similar whiplash, and worse, a crisis of faith.
I think that church members not being considered legal members isn't that big of a deal. Being a member of the church seems more like a spiritual status. Whether or not the government recognizes the church members as members seems irrelevant. The vital functions of the church (your membership in the church, the prophet's authority, etc) aren't determined by the government. Your relationship with Christ's church isn't strengthened or weakened by how that church's legal organization is set up. Because of this, I think that how legal organization of the church is handled is a question of prudence and pragmatism that depends on the circumstances of the time. When the government was going after the church, it was a good idea to legally decentralize everything. Today, with many Christian denominations adopting secular ideologies and going into schism with each other, it's probably a better idea to have a centralized legal setup. If not, we run the risk of having rogue local leaders splitting with the church over doctrinal differences and taking legal ownership of a bunch of LDS meeting houses, with nothing the prophet can do about it.
Non-Mormon here, but I know a lot about Mormonism. Connor, I absolutely love your Sunday musings, they're extremely insightful and no-nonsense. And it's for this very reason that I am starting to hurt for you a little bit on the inside, because I can clearly see the path you're on, I've seen it before. To quote Sans from Undertale... "if you keep going the way you are now... you're gonna have a bad time."
Would love to see a diagram of all the sub orgs, LLCs, corps, etc that are "part of" The Corporation of the President of TCoJCoLdS; with where incorporated, purpose, tax status, revenues, assets, goverance, etc.
If we are not members of the church what are we members of exactly? This makes me have a lot of questions about tithing and other aspects of what people do to contribute to the progress of the church and it makes me wonder about the return on investment (not just financial investment) especially when people are struggling just to get by and are being taxed worse than serfs with no means provided to opt out of the system with the church providing a parallel system when it has been given the resources to do so by those who leadership refers to as “members”. Its quite baffling really.
I've wondered how this works. Just like how there is a "legitimate" gov't founded by the Constitution, that runs in parallel with the corporate gov't, there must also be the legitimate church of Christ, restored through Joseph Smith running parallel to the corporate church. But where do we add individuals fit in?
Connor what you’re doing is a refreshing and great work! I’m glad I found you…I’ll follow your speaking out on VIP topics many of us who don’t blindly follow “.the brethren” or any other thing! It’s so exciting to discover there is someone who thinks, feels and anguishes over much in the church…like “why is church SO boring?!! I’ll be watching all! Now we need to follow the arrogant and “evil” history re the absolute prevalence of patriarchy; a massive correction must be made re the Sacred Feminine!!!
I have two issues / questions- First, what are we supposed to call ourselves now? I believe that should have been considered and advised when this change was called for. Second, with the onslaught of anti-Mormon internet content, any channel that kept the name Mormon in their content is a big warning of who is running it. So could that have been a reason?
Nelson and Hinkley went the rounds with the full name vs the nick name. I do agree that it should be named after Christ but until the leaders repent and come clean, does it really matter.
spot on. Hinkley, with his charm and superior oration skills was able to get the best of Nelson in General Conference. Nelson never forgot that and as soon as he became the president he made the change. To me it seems really petty.
@@americathebeautiful9613 it’s totally a grudge. He’s also trying to outshine Hinckley’s legacy on temple building, announcing endless temples that may or may not end up being completed, most of which will largely go unused.
You missed where President Hinckley said in October 1990 that the members should REREAD Elder Nelson's April 1990 talk about the actual name of the Church.
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I'm an active non-member, and the reluctance of the church to fight against the covid craziness was a little disappointing. I still regularly use the term "Mormon", and I don't think I've actually run into anyone in the 2 wards I've been in who feels at all offended by the terminology. "Mormon" actually has really good branding.
Active non Mormon, I like it
It’s not the Church’s job to fight against the Covid craziness. It’s ours.
The Church’s job is to bind people to Christ through ordinances. It can’t do that if it gets political.
@@lw1959there was literally nothing more political than their participation in the covid craziness. They locked stepped themselves with governments
and literally advised us to follow wise govt leaders. To stay out of politics would have been to provide spiritual guidance only and keep holding church. But they just kept doubling down.
@@lw1959it’s been political and should be today more than ever.
@@lw1959 That is weak reasoning. It’s not that the church didn’t fight the Covid craziness. It’s that the church was fighting on the wrong side of the craziness. The church was not simply sitting as a neutral party.
My wife and I gave our children beautiful, strong, family-honoring full names. Apart from blessings and ordinances, and the odd scenario here or there, we call our children by a litany of nicknames that each one has grown into. The nicknames even change as they grow older. Grandpas and uncles call them X…. Grandmas and aunts call them Y….. friends call them Z. We as a collective, restored church have a true and proper name given to us by our true and proper leader. Our earthly church and its earthly, though divinely inspired, leaders are just doing their best to lead us in a way the Lord might have us lead. I am comfortable existing in a gray area regarding church leaders contending with one another regarding how the institution of the church markets itself. I am also comfortable with, and frequently use, the term “Mormon” in various contexts when communicating with non-members because there are more important points and connections I hope to communicate with them than insisting on policing language. I find that human connection and relationship building allows me to be as good a disciple of Christ as I can be. More so than insisting on people, both in-group and out-group, refer to me in a certain way. All this said, I try to be humble and open to correction when necessary.
I appreciate that you are flexible in certain situations. Imagine if Ammon had refused to roll with the term "Great Spirit" while teaching King Lamoni. It's hard for me to see that as a great win for Satan, but I'm just trying to follow the prophet on this one.
Well said!
I agree with you. the Savior reminds us it’s his Church through our covenants and obedience to the ordinances of the gospel
If we misstep in saying the correct name it’s not a blight on our souls he loves us and knows our hearts I loved all you’ve said it brings it full circle ⭕️ it never negates what the Prophet has said about the name .
I'm not offended by someone saying Mormon. I'm a Christian. I'm also a Latter-Day Saint. They're all synonymous. Let's not get caught up in the technicalities that don't have real impact on identity politics or sharing the gospel. If they still don't know what church I belong to, sure I'll say the whole name of the church.
I've started calling myself an LDS Christian, but I love my Mormon heritage.
I agree with you on this one. Personally, calling members “Saints” or “Mormons” doesn’t seem like an issue if we always refer to the church using its full name. Go over to Ward Radio’s comment section and you’ll find 2-3 Saints that post cringeworthy rebukes and condemnations of the hosts on every video just because they occasionally use the word Mormon in video titles or keywords for the algo. I read one nasty rebuke from someone called “LadyG” that said the hosts were going to be damned to hell if they didn’t stop using the word and she posts similar rebukes on content from all of the popular LDS channels on RUclips. Abandoning the word Mormon after using it forever just makes it so investigators almost exclusively find anti-Mormon content in their top search results online and RUclips. Is that being a wise and faithful servant to cede the word Mormon to the apostates online?
I’ll add my personal experience. I was a lukewarm member in the church for several years until I came across a radio show that also plays RUclips called, Midnight Mormons (now called Ward Radio because they wanted to follow the prophets counsel). I found it because I searched for Mormon shows. If they had been called Ward radio back then, I may never had found them. Their content brought me back to full activity. Just a thought to consider.
@@CryptoCPA COVID doesn’t count. The letter was a suggestion.
But one can take a revelation from the prophet and discard it as not being one because they disagree. Happens in the Church all the time.
Getting the vaccine wasn’t a sin. I got mine before the letter. COVID was politicized by the Church because of anti Trump hate. Same with his getting the vaccine out. There is a distinction between revelation, opinion and counsel. That I agree with.
But the fact is, both the Church and non members in the US politicized the vaccine and caused contention over it.
🙄to LadyG.
Midnight Mormons will always be a better name than Ward Radio
Yeah, if they could just post some good stuff instead of all the obviously stupid wrong ideas they present as fact. They have fun though, so there is that. Their knowledge just sucks though...
Why does it always seem that people trying to help us not miss the forest for the trees end up missing the forest for the trees.
It doesn’t bother me at all that I’m not a legal member of the corporation. My membership has never been dependent on whether the world recognizes it. The legal structure of The Church is only there to facilitate interaction with other legal entities in the world. When The King returns, He will bring a new legal structure along with Him, and I am a member of that legal structure, which is the only one that will not ultimately fail.
I would like to know your opinion on the phrasing used by the church for "legally and lawfully wed" to describe marriage socially and inside the church.
Very well stated. I agree
I have wondered but never really looked into who decided to give the church a dead body (corpse) created by the corporatized gov't. So much interesting stuff we just aren't taught about unless we search for it.
@@dudeofdixiethe church uses that language because the society uses it. Hardly anyone knows what a legal marriage is. At least what God considers to be legal. They go with what that"other" god says is legal or illegal, which makes them the children of the devil instead of children of the God of Abraham. Someone please prove me wrong.
@@holyroller4391 this is language used by Joseph Smith, so it's not a recent use of language.
When I joined the Church, in 1968, I loved the full correct name of the Church and loved to say it. It reminded me that this IS the restored Church of Jesus Christ!
❤❤❤
How did you feel when The Church of Jesus christ of Ladder day saints church pushed the “Meet the Mormons” campaign?
@@aaronguerrero8559
It served its purpose… God does all things in His wisdom and purposes.
I love how we are focused on the true name not some nickname our enemies gave us.
What do you think? ❤️☀️
@@Whatiftheresmore1314 I served my mission from 2013-2015 in Guatemala so the I am a Mormon campaign was a huge part of the mission experience. I am confused why the prophet at the time would move forward with the “i am a Mormon” campaign when a decade later the prophet would move in a different direction. Doesn’t the prophet have enough foresight to see what god would want in the future?
@@Whatiftheresmore1314 I served my mission from 2013-2015 and the I am a Mormon campaign was a huge part of the mission experience. I am confused as to why one prophet would move forward with the “I am a Mormon” message when a decade later the prophet moves in a different direction. Shouldn’t the prophet be able to discern what god’s plan is for the future?
I am American. Well, technically I am an American citizen. Well, technically technically I am a citizen of the United States of America.
Back to "I am American". But, actually I am North American ... but, not Canadian ... so, I am North American, with a qualifier. Can South Americans identify as American? Or is that Cultural Appropriation? Wokesters hate appropriation. Nah, South Americans cannot call themselves 'American'.
Some Evangelicals won't allow me to call myself Christian. Because, appearantly 17 centuries ago a bunch of Athanasian-ite Constantinian priests dictated the definition of Christian as a person who believes in their (pre-electricity, pre-American-continent, pre-germ-theory, pre-internal-combustion-engine) version of the Eternal God, who is everywhere but nowhere ... simultaneously. Meantime, Einstein had a problem with Quantum Entanglement aka Spooky Action at a Distance, because he could not wrap his brain around the concept.
Just called me LDS. Ya, I like the Saint moniker.
So, if 'Mormon' is out as a name identifier, and if 'Christian' has been co-opted by the Evangelicals, you can call me a "1st century classical Christian, with old world Jewish Lehi roots, and a progressive Prophet Mormon ideology" ... Or, LDS will suffice.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I wanted to share something I originally shared with some missionaries:
The controversy over the name of the Church got brought up again, so I reviewed this talk. Once again, people are mistakenly assuming that the takeaway from this talk is that using the term "Mormon" is "a major victory for Satan". That's not what the talk is about, nor what it even says. It's the absence of the Lord's name from the Lord's Church that is a major victory for Satan, not the term "Mormon".
Here's what I want to emphasize. Because people have mistakenly assumed that "Mormon" is bad, they just shifted to another term, "Latter-day Saints". This has the same issue, the absence of the Lord's name. Satan just bamboozled you!
Now, you may be thinking, "But Zach, in the first sentence of the third to last paragraph of the talk, President Nelson refers to us simply as 'the Latter-day Saints'!" Well, hypothetical missionary, that's very astute of you, but notice what President Nelson *also* said a paragraph earlier: "If someone asks, 'Are you a Latter-day Saint?' you might respond, 'Yes, I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and am a member of His restored Church.'" While President Nelson uses that term, he is certain to include the presence of the Lord's name. This is why I'll often tell people the correct name of the Church, but if after the fact they continue to use the term "Mormon", I don't feel the need to continually correct them, especially if it's obvious they're doing it on purpose. At that point, I've already included the presence of the Lord's name, and will likely continue to bring Him up.
Of course, this is all my opinion. Y'all are free to disagree. Just thought I'd share some insights
EDIT:
He actually touched on the topic of my comment in 36:25 . I had originally commented about halfway through the video
Here's another:
More insights on the name of the Church. I've noticed many anti having a field day over President Nelson's push to say the correct name of the Church, especially this statement: "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan." They like prancing around and talking about all the times the word "Mormon" was used positively in the past. However, I've been thinking about this a bit differently. I've never really had a problem with the term "Mormon", especially with using it as an umbrella term. As usual, I think Anti are misunderstanding. It's not the term "Mormon" that's bad, it's the absence of the name of Jesus Christ that is bad, which is actually what President Nelson is saying. If we get too caught up in not saying "Mormon", that leads to caricatures like replacing "The Book of Mormon" with "The Book of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".
Just some thoughts I had
And another:
Here's a thought I had today. Have you ever heard the Church criticized for not mentioning Christ "enough"? And then those same people turn around and say they don't understand why we don't like to use the term "Mormon" anymore? It's the same principle. We want to use the full name of the Church because doing otherwise removes the name of Christ. We want to say His name more, not less
100%, words matter. Not using the name of Christ is something Satan likes
I say let's go with Mormons of the church of Jesus Christ.
I just wonder why Mormon was taken away from the Tabernacle Choir because it wasn’t replaced with the name of Jesus Christ. Mormon was just taken away insinuating the word is bad.
This is akin to “Melchizedek Priesthood” vs the “Holy Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God”
We still have the Mormon Helping Hands.
You can’t have it both ways…Mormon church was fine under past prophets and not under newest prophet. If no prophet can lead the church astray than they’re either all right or their all wrong. I find it tragic that so many brought people unto Christ using into the Mormon church and then suddenly we’re calling that a victory for satan. It makes no sense. I think it’s awful to see the latest prophet disrespecting the very predecessors that he claimed to sustain, as wrong. That’s a lot of people he is throwing under the bus. What are we members supposed to do with that. How do we trust any past or present prophet when they don’t trust each other?
Sincerely ask if they are all not prophets after Joseph Smith.
False. Many leaders have spoken on the subject.
Boy your way over doing this topic. I did not get the the jab either but never thought via the prophet was looking at me as less valiant. Why is it so hard for you to just follow a simple thing like this, it's not that hard. He wants us to focus on Christ. I personally have told non members I am a member of.... They normally always come back with surprise when the learn this full name of the church is also Mormon. That is a sign to me we need to use the full name of the church far more often, or better, always. So chill dude, relax and enjoy life.
The “Mormon is a major victory for Satan” claim Nelson made was a jarring declaration that further solidified that prophets really can lead the people astray. You did a great job breaking this down. I, too, have been on the bandwagon of saying that Nelson called us to be anti-Mormons. People, please use your discernment and don’t be afraid to call a spade a spade.
It's omitting Christ's name that's the victory.
Nelson never made the claim that "Mormon is a major victory for Satan". And even if he's wrong, it doesn't constitute "lead[ing] the people astray" in an "Official Declaration 1" sense, as I'm sure Connor would agree
right! a mormon is a mormon. and the mormon church IS the mormon church, as well as the CofJCofLDS, as well as the Restored Church of Jesus CHrist, as well as the Church of CHrist, as well as the LDS church , as well as etc., etc., as you can read from church history.
@@MrBillmechanic I would argue that there isn't "the" Mormon church, only "a" Mormon Church. The LDS, RLDS, FLDS, etc, all fall under the umbrella of Mormonism
Calling someone mormon is like calling a woman the b or c word it's not as bad as calling someone the N word but all the words are not terms of endearment. If your white and driving down the road listening to rap you might not want to have the windows down and singing along to the N word. Now we always wonder why people don't want to be called the n word bit use it themselves? Apply that to the n word . Then think how they used mormon on Southpark it wasn't a term of endearment
Hi connor. I'm an active and in good standing member, temple recommend holding, TBM of some 45 or so years now, and I've just recently discovered your channel. As with all the other subject matter I've heard you talk about so far, I think you just hit it right out of the park, with this video. Spot-on, and very well done, good sir. Keep up the good work. I very much appreciate it- as I can only imagine, many of your other listeners must also---
Nelson’s wife, 2nd and quite a bit younger just out’d his wants, thoughts and desires! And these were things he wanted before he was the prophet, which begs the idea, is it his interests or is it by divine inspiration for the direction of the church?🧐 very curious
Bingo!
it almost nearly sounded like “he finally can do what he wants…”.
@@rickfowlks7296 That is not an unprecedented occurance. Lorenzo Snow received the impression that "As man is, God once was...." before he became President but did not enunciate it at that time because he did not then have the authority to speak for the Church.
@@kennethsabey2034 I’m certainly aware of the story, thanks
She has a lot of influence on the prophet. Much of the way things are going are because of her. She is very progressive.
The phase of the the church ending with the Meet the Mormons campaign was the last welcoming and inclusive era. As cheesy as the campaign was and how marketing-ish it felt, we were a team - inclusive, celebrating growth and activity of all kinds of people. It felt good to be a member. We’ve settled into a phase, especially post covid where we’re adversarial and stodgy. We have to be called by a certain name, have a certain steeple height on our temples and insist that we’re the most Christian of the Christians because our church name says so and because we donate the most money (giving machines). We lost internal camaraderie in the name of an outward facing impression. Why do we care so much what other people think? We’d be stronger if we were spending much more time building Zion internally. I agree that we have many more important fish to fry. Nelson fulfilled his grudge but at what cost? The irony now is, of course that social media content using the keyword Mormon is some of the most profitable content out there. Plenty of anti-Mormons making a lot of money off a word that used to be held dear by so many of us.
At what cost is something I'd like to see, as in the amount of money that's been used. I'm sure President Nelson has spared no church expense on his campaign.
It's easy to spend other people's money.
The church is represented in the UN as "The Church of Latter-Day Saints" 🤷
True
And your point is? Yeah. The name of the church is....
It is unfortunate we are associated with that vile organization....
Don’t watch what the other hand is doing
Well it was once called that the 1835 edition of the D&C is titled The Church of the Latter Day Saints
Is this a Utah problem? Having lived in several wards in several stakes east of the Rockies since Nelson’s talk, the “social” problems being described in this musing are non-existent. No one gets judgy if we refer to ourselves as Mormon, no one turns into a Karen if someone calls them a Mormon. We’re just people doing our best to follow Christ, and to follow the spirit of what the prophets encourage us to do. If this is what Utah church culture is like, I’ve never been more grateful to live outside of it.
Yep-be glad you don’t live in Utah! It’s The Twilight Zone. 😂
There's a bit if you live close enough to one of the FLDS or similarly polygamous cities or enclaves.
There can also be a problem if local Protestant pastors like pushing things like "The Godmakers" around.
There was a guy in our ward in Texas who was getting like this- and most of us just asked that he live and let live. Just like Connor pointed out here, we pointed out that the saints throughout the primitive church were called by their geographical location- Corinth, Ephesus, Rome. The members of the church in the Nephite dispensation were called Nephites. Obviously they were all saints and members of the Church of Jesus Christ.
I AGREE that the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and it should be used whenever we refer to the church itself. I also know that neither Hinckley nor Monson had issues with 'Mormon' as a moniker when referring to members. I still use LDS and Mormon in my vocabulary.
Out west people love to display their righteousness by correcting you if you say Mormon, “Um, Aktchually… it’s the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”😂 Also tends to be the people who love bragging about getting the “jovid cab” and might still be seen wearing a mask
Much like the push to gave women qear pants ro church, a lot of this ONLY makes sense in Utah, and especially Provo and SLC. President Nelson also cautioned us about being myopic. We tend to get very myopic this close to the church office buildings. Out side this weird little circle so much of our drama doesn't matter.
“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316)
Amen Brother!!!!!
A word that comes up in the scriptures, mostly in the Doctrine and Covenants, is "Expedient" (fit, or suitable for a purpose, proper under the circumstances).
Perhaps, it was expedient to use Mormon in the past as well as expedient to use the proper name of the Church now.
I like that!
You called it "the Church" and removed the name of Jesus Christ. Interesting. Perhaps it was expedient for you to have a practical way of using a term that condenses the information from a longer term that contains more information.
In the world of internet and social media, it is still expedient to have a compressed way to express who the church is without the unnecessary use of the entire name of the Church each time you refer to it.
BS
I'm still stuck on "Mormon" or "latter day saints"
I'll never use the whole name. It's hilarious Hinkley called Nelson out Like that🤣🤣.
It's true to that name change has caused division.
Defending the Savior is always a good thing, and I see Russell Nelson defending his Savior. The “President Nelson is leading the Church astray” crowd needs to chill.
All of this legal maneuvering and branding is not faith promoting to me. As I read about the life of Christ and his words in the scriptures, I doubt that he is the kind of being who would be interested in legal entities, lawyers, lawsuits, and investments. He certainly does not need money. Am I wrong?
I have loved the focused effort on using Jesus’ name more. It has done me good to say His name and His words more often. Mormon doesn’t do that. Given I tactfully use the word when needed as it has its roots in our culture and is what many people still know us by.
That's offensive! His name is not "Jesus" and saying that is offensive! It's Yeshua and if you're not saying Yeshua but, instead, are saying the bastardized "Jesus" you have gone off course and are part of the evil!
It's "The Church of Yeshua Son of Joseph the One Messiah or Christ of the Earth and Universe of Latter-Day Saints"!!! GET IT RIGHT!!!
@@TheGreatDadoo you’re obviously so intellectual I must refrain from a direct reply 😂 peace be upon you my friend.
The only question I see here is; "Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, seer, and revelator and the only person on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?"
All I know is that when I raise my arm to the square I am sustaining a Prophet of God. I don't always understand why we are told to do certain things, but I do understand that our Prophets, seers and revelators are the watchmen on the walls and they can see what's coming far better than we can.
Why do you read your scriptures if a new prophet is a reset every time?
This attitude feels very Ministry of Truth.
Maybe reread section 101:42 -65. Ask God for the interpretation.
One must be careful, because the church throughout history has become corrupted. And a cause of that corruption are people blindly following the leaders who drifted away from the gospel til it was lost. The same thing can happen again if we aren't familiar with scripture and willing to point out and discuss when we see discrepancies between what today's leaders are saying, and the long history we have in the scriptures.
@johnsonsadventurers Read Joshua 9. Sometimes, a prophet does things without consulting with the Lord. This doesn't make them fallen prophets it shows that they are human and can make mistakes. In Joshua 9, he makes a treaty with some canaanites pretending to come from a far away land.
(Josh 9:14-16) And the men took of their victuals, and asked not counsel at the mouth of the Lord.
15 And Joshua made peace with them, and made a league with them, to let them live: and the princes of the congregation sware unto them.
16 ¶ And it came to pass at the end of three days after they had made a league with them, that they heard that they were their neighbours, and that they dwelt among them.
You know what I see as strange? Why only one? If God has the same message he's trying to get out he can use multiple people. It would be a sign of 2 or 3 witnesses, not 2 or 3 read it from the teleprompters. I don't believe he is a prophet anymore. The one who deceives the most will be the hardest to detect. I have gone through the last 4 years since Covid jabs and prayed and struggled to finally come out on the other end with the answer. The thing I'm finding is, within the church doesn't it sound blasphemous to say it? Isn't that weird though? It should be blasphemous to say God isn't our God, but we have looked more to the prophet as a God then God himself! Our religion has fallen from the teachings of the Book of Mormon. I think Helaman and Captain Moroni would be in agony for us for not standing up for our freedom and doing the right thing to fight for our liberties, our faith, our freedom and our families.
The anti-Mormon sentiment primarily comes from evangelical Christian leaders zeros in on our calling ourselves Mormons! They are thinking, checkmate, you’re not Christian! It’s all about missionary work and the target audience and the language that they speak. no sincere member of the church cares about being offended by what they are called. It’s not about that at all. It’s about missionary work.
I've been around for awhile, and I have never heard the word "mormon" used pejoratively. Never. What is all this fuss about??
Don’t know where you grew up - I’ve heard it used by many Protestants as a pejorative.
the word "Mormon" is used as a pejorative all the time. "Oh, you're a Mormon, hu? Where do you keep all your wives?" Dude, if you've never heard Mormon used as a pejorative you must be in a coma from birth or something
A lot of Evangelical Protestants use Mormon as a pejorative, along with the anti-Mormon literature they push. In addition, if you're anywhere near the FLDS groups, there tends to be some bad feelings what with all the ones who escape them feel.
One of my gaming friends complained about getting a reputation as a lawyer known for getting people out of Mormon groups. I clarified with him he meant the bad Mormons like the FLDS, and he agreed.
“Damn Mormon” is more like it
It was originally a slur that the early members turned to their use (here in the Bible Belt, it's still used by some as a slur). "Yeah, I'm Mormon and I'm proud of it." As you tell children to just ignore bad behavior and they will tire of pestering you.
My first thought was "and I've always been proud to use the word Mormon as I am a convert and was a Mormon boy and now I am a Mormon man" my first thought in listening to your presentation was the word "transition" I think President Nelson is trying to get the point across that Literally "thus shall my church be called in the latter days!
I see a winding down
I think we are 10 years away from the quickening
I think the second coming is right around 2000 years after the crucifixion
Which would put it plus or -2034
Who knows if the calendars spot on could be after two or three years
I agree with you that I am a Mormon as a member. It sounds good. Feels good.
The church that I sustained belong to is "the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints"
I am also one who guided my family to not attend church for 18 months
As we did not feel welcome because we did not get the shot or wear a mask
My son was released from the bishopric because the state president didn't like the fact that he would not fall in line and wear a mask and get the shot
On that subject, I believe there's a difference when the profit speaks on behalf of the 501 C3 and when he's speaking about "thus say, if the Lord"
I think you have to read between the lines on all these things and listen to the spirit
For me with regards to Covid, President Nelson was protecting the corporation from government intrusion and oversight when he encouraged members to get the shot and wear the mask
The overwriting principal is
Listen to the spirit to guide your personal life
Thank you for explaining a very perplexing and neck breaking course correction. A musing regarding the adoption of born-again ministering themes and wording would be interesting.
I would be interested in hearing more on the topic: “Critiquing the brethren versus trusting in a plan beyond my knowledge.”
My thoughts exactly. My first thought when I heard this talk was whatever happened to the counsel that we should not be using the Lords name too lightly or be too repetitious?
Thanks for all you do, this is a discussion well worth having. At the same time, what if we look back and find that this change had some cumulative effects like separating faithful and anti channels to some degree in the algorithms so that the old tired channels can start to lose out after their head start, and as they are grasping at straws a wave of new faithful content overtakes, and in conjunction with other efforts reaches a tipping point, exponential growth, the last great gathering, then He returns. Definitely agree we shouldn't call others out/virtue signal.
💯
Utah should never have become a state. The central government has been very hostile toward the church.
Amen! The fact that any Christian is so supportive of government has been confusing to me for years.
Utah is a theocracy
@@tombaker6083🙄
@@tombaker6083if only :(
@@tombaker6083In what orbit do you live in now?😢
I am entitled to refer to myself as a "Mormon" even though the corporate Church saw fit to expel me because my allegiances are to the doctrines of the Restoration rather than the whims of so-called "leaders." Because I embrace the Book of Mormon and the doctrines of the Restoration as promulgated through Joseph Smith, I am a Mormon. Joseph himself found the appellation acceptable, and so do I.
Nicely presented, Connor.
Why were you expelled?
I refer to myself as a “Metaphorical Mormon”. I’m an active non-member, and I think I’m afforded more slack because I haven’t actually gotten baptized yet - they let me show up every sunday, they’ve given me various callings, and although I still drink coffee and only “tithe” maybe 1%, I do feel accepted. It’s annoying not having access to the Tools app for communications, but I can’t be expelled from a club I didn’t join :)
I enjoy your work! I'm sorry you were expelled.
@@GldnClaw I am the proprietor of a blog that condemns false traditions that have grown up in the church that have displaced the doctrines revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Here is but one example:
puremormonism.blogspot.com/2022/04/why-are-you-still-calling-this-guy.html
@@charisecarlson Thank you, Charise.
I joined the church in 1963 at age 16. I used the full name of church but did not correct non LDS who called us Mormons. But President Kimball and President Hinckley told us to call the church by the full name so I did. What others say is what they say but as members we should use the full name of the Lord's Church especially with those not members. That is my feeling about it. By using the full name the world knows we believe in Christ and are Christians.
You could take it a step further per the words of Russell M Nelson said "Follow prophets who have been given Divine commission and speak when moved upon by the holy ghost shall be SCRIPTURE. Shall be the will of the lord and shall be the mind of the lord, shall be the word of the lord and shall be the voice of the lord". He was referring to President Hinkley BUT now for President Nelson to make such a hard course correction going against SCRIPTURE in his own words makes me concerned. When President Nelson wife spoke "He had been unleashed", "He's free to do what he came to earth to do" and "He's free to change things He's been concerned about" This language is very PRIDEFUL and I think she has forgotten who he is here to serve! If President Neslon was consistent in wanting to mention the Lord he would make a mandate not to quote or mention his own name during the next conference since he was mentioned twice as much as Jesus Christ. When Jesus says judge not less ye be judged. He's not saying suspend your critical thinking and accept everything being equally valid. Question everything!
Amen
President Nelson is NOT here to do whatever HE wants, but to do what GOD wants.
@@Ericksosasculptor no you are wrong...go away
@@Robin-ge2qc except he doesnt.....even his thing asking membera to avoid social media for a week was self serving because he dod it to hide from members that his daughter and son in law had multiple lawsuits against them for years of abuse at their house with minor aged kids being part of "touching parties"... he took that week while members werent online and the story barely broke and got quickly buried and the plantiffs all got bought off uding church funds and forced to sign NDAs so the case was dropped before it could get to court...
even his story about how ans when he met his 2nd wife is a lie....she lived down the street in the same ward and was a roomate with sheri dew for years who he worked with...yet he claims he disnt even know her name till a few months after his wifes death and quickly gets married
he had a ax to grind against hinckley and monson several times...evwn jokes qbout a dual between them were made in general conference after nelson gave wome weird talks going after the use of the word mormon ane then the prophet had to get up ans way he was wrong
@@Robin-ge2qc so why does nelson do what HE wants instead?
I had the privilege of spending a couple days with Elder Anderson. 1. I have a testimony that the name correction is required to be called by him when he returns. 2. He uses, and we can use the name "Christian".
Glad you have a testimony. Any proof to share of either statement?
@@Nunya45573love that response
@@Nunya45573 That would be nice to see.
did you two have sex?
Who is “he uses and we can use the name Christian.” When can we use this? For whom? Christians? Us members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?? I am totally confused by your statement!
There were only ever 2 names of the church during Joseph's lifetime. 1. The Church of Christ - this was removed by the Lord in 1832 due to condemnation. 2. The Church of Latter Day Saints - see name on Kirkland house of the Lord and D&C on those days. This was the only name used during Joseph's lifetime. D&C 115 was printed in 1870.s by Brigham after Joseph's death. I do not believe it ever came to Joseph or he would have used the name we use today. Anything printed after Joseph's death is likely altered or a fabrication claiming it was from Joseph. Since we are still under condemnation as per Pres. Benson we should still be the Church of Latter Day Saints. Mormon is just fine and better in my opinion than what we are told to call the church, which we have no right to since 1832 when the Savior removed his name from the church. Joseph wanted to get it back and was told if they got the Nauvoo House of the Lord built he would restore his approval and grant his fulness.
Very interesting!
The way you get people to do something (repeatedly and enmasse) is to tell them not to do it. To think that we can get people to call us by our long name is unrealistic.
I am a follower of Christ.
Seems like a wasted opportunity to be a light of truth by putting out this squabbling and silly argument that so many people are fine with this so why can't President Nelson be. Well seems like God's ways are not our ways. Jesus Christ did not come here to go along with the majority. So no surprise President Nelson is being led by Jesus Christ. He is truly a light and points people to the Savior.
Did we watch the same video? President Hinkley and President Monson were both Prophets, seer, and revelators and they saw no problem with "Mormon".
I don't crush plastic water bottles. I don't use them.
😂
poisonous water in those PET bottles- don’t drink that water, but - get this- I crush Coca Cola cans and have been doing so long before P Nelson ever game up with the explicit bottle crushing instructions.
My husband believes Nelson got the crushing water bottles idea from him, so is he a prophet? 😅
but did you marry someone 20 years younger than you, follow the prophet
@@benzun9600 , just 8 and 3/4. Hope that counts. 😁
Your arguments are solid, and I share your channel whenever I find an opening. Thank you for expressing your questions as so many of yours are mine too. I pray regularly that our way will become His way eventually!
So many traditional Christians here in the Bible belt, literally think that Mormon is a new religion like Islam and is separate from Christianity. Missionary work was really frustrating when we were calling ourselves Mormons! I am totally on board with President Nelson. I had been thinking what he had been thinking for years.
Yep, an over reaction.
A well thought out position, as I have come to expect from your musings.
In general, I don't see course corrections as problematic, or conflicting with past prophets. If prophets are meant to be watchmen, it makes sense that policies will change as the facts on the ground change. Elder Holland in 2012 described our day as a time of "mighty accelerated change" in a talk titled Israel, Israel God is calling. This seems to me that it would require some significant and sometimes jarring changes.
Perhaps God impressed upon president Nelson this idea long ago and allowed him to grow in it for decades, so when the time came for him to make this correction, he was able to give a well reasoned, grounded, and firm Declaration of this path. It speaks well of the church leadership that though he obviously disagreed, there was no power struggle or public contention on the matter, as there would have been in nearly every other organization on the earth, throughout all of history.
I do think that members over react to the use of the name, but I do find it rather telling that nearly every anti-Mormon publication or podcast uses some form of the word Mormon, and would have no reason to change it, because they would hate to actually "follow the prophet" in this thing.
That isn't to say that every publication that uses Mormon is anti, but it seems a reliable indicator.
When members react to the name in unkind and judging ways, they fail to understand D&C 121. Power and influence are only maintained by persuasion, longsuffering, etc. that list does not include yelling at, condemning, or other things like that.
Being a corporation as you said, controlled by whomever is at the head, my question is…
Is there a mechanism in place to remove the leader of the corporation if it is deemed necessary for some reason?
It's the name of our book, for gosh sake.
The book that draws us nearer to God than any other book.
Instead of Nelson vs. Hinckly, what if Heavenly Father’s will was to do both in that specific order and timeframe. The I’m a Mormon campaign might have even been preparatory to the focus on Jesus’s name. Our target audience is evangelicals who focus heavily on taking Jesus’s name upon you and confessing his name.
It’s like a chess move that we are learning to block from leading evangelical leaders attempts to keep their flock away from the Church.
thank you conner!
myself and a couple friends look forward to these every sunday and love this video
thank you!
so grateful for a member willing to talk about stuff that doesnt like up and doesnt just suck up to the leaders in power
As someone who has left the church I really appreciate your willingness to vocalize valid criticism towards the church. I was astounded when Oaks said we as the body of the church were not allowed to be critical leadership. I think one of the biggest issues is how out of touch they are with modern times. It feels contradictory because you think they would do things to keep members but time and time again their policies have continued to show they only push people away. The Mormon thing is particularly wild because if we’re assuming the prophet actually speaks with and receives revelation directly from God then why did he never reveal how “offended” he was before Nelson during the I’m a Mormon campaign. It seems as tho God’s revelations contradict themselves or simply they don’t actually speak with God. It feels as if the church only cares about pursuing corporate assets and has since its inception which is interesting because I don’t think it was apart of Christs philosophy to use tithes to invest in the stock market illegally or fight with state governments over steeple sizes so the temple can look more glamorous.
Appreciate this post sooooo much! Thank you Connor! 👏👏👏
We are not automatons. Nelson is giving us a principle that we can apply to individual actions and circumstances, in the present time and circumstances of the Church. If you simply use the term more often in this social media-driven world, you will be drawing people searching Jesus to his Church more often. The virtue signaling is a victory for Satan, but so are the losses of opportunity to bring in the Holy Spirit to more conversations.
You are missing the point! It’s about targeting evangelical Christians, who are most likely to join the church if they know that we are Christian. Many of them are taught that our answering to the name of Mormon is a sign that we are not Christian. I saw this in numerous conversations with coworkers about the church. They really do see it as a sign that we are not Christians when we answer to any other name. It sent a strong message to our target audience for missionary work that we do not accept any other name, except Jesus Christ. Evangelicals are heavy duty into taking on and confessing the name of Christ and being Christian and appearing Christian and sounding Christian.
I’m on President Nelson’s side here. I think he understands the importance of psychological and spiritual conditioning. Maybe some members can be too passionate about President Nelson’s counsel, but I don’t know.
I just say that I'm a Latter-Day Saint and if they ask further what church it was, I would say The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you would know it as the "Mormon" church.
Back then, the term 'Mormon' was a derogatory term in the time of Joseph Smith. I guess as time went on, the leaders were trying to make the term used in a positive light instead to overrule the negative use of the word 'Mormon'.
Same as went on for the Book Of Mormon Musical. The world has used our belief of the Book of Mormon to mock our belief, but members have turned it into an opportunity to share the Book of Mormon by inviting others to read it with captions like: "You've seen the musical, now read the book"
I don't think it was ever the problem, we are just shifting and making the world more centered on Christ and it starts with us first.
@@corinajane6382 Interesting how LdS or Latter-day Saint replaced Mormon instead of Jesus.
@amybaker1880 The church is THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. I refer to myself as a follower of Jesus, as a saint. People seem to confuse the two. It is in the name of the church. It is His church, we are the Saints.
@@corinajane6382 Ha ha! You don't obey Nelson and claim the name of a different church. Ok...
@amybaker1880 However you see, is how you see. If you think I'm wrong, that is your judgement which doesn't really affect me in anyway because you are NOT the Lord 😊 I admire and respect our Prophet and I know that I do, so if you think that I don't - again, that is your judgement and thankfully, I've learned not to listen to the world and only listen to what the spirit tells me to, divinely appointed sources 😊 My friend, if you are a believer of Christ, please act as He would. Return and talk to me when you have received Him. I will love you from here but will not repeat the actions you have shown me.
@@corinajane6382 You said you say you're a Latter-day Saint. How is that obeying what Nelson said?
"What’s in a name or, in this case, a nickname? When it comes to nicknames of the Church, such as the “LDS Church,” the “Mormon Church,” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us-even His Atonement."
I'm a believer in Christ and the BoM.
Without all of the pontificating, I have understood the differing portions of the argument since the beginning of my awareness of the subject in general. And like so many differing subjects in the Church, the bottom-line is my personal relationship to the Godhead and not my relationship to the organization, which is totally worldly and has little to do with eternity!
Mmm... is the name ' Book of Mormon' a victory for Satan? Yes, it has been clarified that it is another testament of Christ. I would argue then that a mormon is another testifier of Christ! Something to consider.
I think we can all see both sides this pretty well. It might be easier to understand if you’re living outside of Utah. Back in 2006 when I was in high school in Northern CA, I had a teacher ask me in class if Mormons believed in Jesus Christ. And the way I answered still bothers me today. I said “Are you serious?” And the I walked up to the front of the room and wrote the full name of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” on the white board and I said “That’s the name of the church, Mormons is just what people call us.” And I could tell I embarrassed him and totally shut the convo down. I could have said just about the same thing but have been less “offended” myself and less offensive. He was just curious. At the same time if I’m being perfectly honest I don’t want to be counted among the countless denominations of Christianity as “Christians”. They’ve sort of soured that idea in my mind. I’d rather just be a follower of Christ. To me a more appropriate way to approach nicknames which still seems in line with what President Nelson has said is to simply use the term Mormon when it is brought up as an opportunity to share the actual name of the church and our belief in Jesus Christ. We don’t need to use the name as a bludgeon. And to be perfectly honest it seems like we should be focusing more on retention through community, and teaching than semantics. Unpopular opinion, bring back 3-hour church, an alternative to scouting, a better young women’s program, relief society that does more together. We can’t just keep talking about building The Kingdom we actually have to do it. The bottom up approach can’t work without the proper organizational tools in place. In the world of technology this shouldn’t be a problem at all.
I think you are just playing with semantics, really. In the words of Rodney King, “can’t we just all get along?” I love this Channel so much. Thank you for making me feel like I joined something, I really didn’t, what a relief.
I’m grateful for the emphasis on the full name of the church for a few reasons, one of which I’ll share here: It is often easy to tell which videos, podcasts, or people are antagonistic toward the church by their unwillingness to use the full name of the church (the inverse is also true). I understand it’s clunky at times, but in this day and age where there is so much criticism, some of which is truthful but much of which is misleading or completely false, the name that is used by people to talk about the church is a bit of an indication of where the person lands in their attitudes toward the church and its members.
39:08
Careful, each time you say "Mormon" you are committing a sin, and you can only repent 490 times
Oh dang. I thought we had 491. Love it.
I think Pres. Nelson's direction was inspired for the time he introduced it. His desire for us to more effectively focus on Christ is righteous. The danger of excess you mention is valid, though the dangers of excess in using Mormon also potentially distances us from Christ. What type of error are you more comfortable with?
I will call myself a Christian. If needed to distinguish myself, then I would describe myself as a Christian Restorationist, and then finally a Mormon. We should strive to unify to a body of Christ as much as possible.
Nelson did this same thing back in the day when Hinckley was around and Hinckley called him out for it and said he was wrong. Hinckley is not longer around to defend the use of Mormon.
As I listened to your podcast, Isaiah 4:1 came to mind. "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by the name, to take away our reproach. This scripture is not about polygamy it is about the churches in the latter days wanting to incorporate the name of Christ in order to give them more legitimacy in the eyes of the people. The people do not want to practice his doctrines, they will have their own (i.e. bread and apparel). They just want his name associated with them. As you know, the name of the Church in the beginning was the church of Christ. Later that name was removed and changed to the church of the Latter Day Saints and still later to what we have today.
Bread = sacraments Appareal = priestly attire or garments. None are correct and all have gone astray or even been polluted. See Mormon 8
Give me a break. People can't understand words even as simple as words can be. Terrible job word wrestling there. That right there is the product of a curse, because you have rejected truth. You now know nothing at all.
My honest opinion after watching this video. This feels like armchair quarterbacking brother. Whenever I think I might know better than the President, I think, would I want to take his job? And the answer is no. So I will let him do his job and I will focus on mine.
I do agree with you that, as members, we shouldn't be bickering with each other over petty things like how we each decide to impliment this instruction for ourselves.
maybe we shouldnt be rebranding the church over a petty argument that existed between Hinkley and Nelson over 20 years ago.
@@americathebeautiful9613 I think he was reading too much into it. I remember Hinckley talking about avoiding using the term Mormon and asking the Media to avoid using the term. Honestly, I thought it was weird that everyone was acting like it was a new thing when Nelson brought it up. I think Nelson was just taking it a step further.
I just went and checked. In a letter to church members in May of 2001, the first presidency requested that members use the full name of the Church whenevet possible and that the term Latter-day Saints was preferable when refering to members. Although they did allow for cultural terms like "Mormon tab choir." So President Nelson really just took it one step further. This was never a Hinckley vs Nelson thing.
@@kylelieb2977 Watch the conference talks where the two seem to be jousting. Youll think differently.
@@americathebeautiful9613 I mean, I watched the video and saw the clips. I don't think they are jousting.
Also, the first presidency letter, President Hinckley was the President and the letter was much more resent, in 2001. And it seemed more aligned with President Nelson's opinions, even though it doesn't go as far.
💯% agree that using the term ‘Mormon’ is totally appropriate and that The Church should be addressed using the full name.
Similar situation as to whether members are actually ‘members’ of the Church, with Americans being actual ‘citizens’ of the United States of America, which was incorporated in the 1870s.
(I’m Canadian, so uncertain as to the exact date).
In 1990 President Packer during his visit to my mission said they were trying to limit usage of the nickname "Mormon."
President Hinckley NEVER said the Church should be called The Mormon Church. Look at what he said about Elder Nelson's talk in 1990. In October 1990 President Hinckley encouraged the Church to REREAD Elder Nelson's talk from six months earlier, so you risk offending the Spirit when you try to make it look like the two them are at odds. And President Nelson honored President Hinckley in his most recent conference talk. Please reconsider your approach.
Loved this. thank you!
Those Mormon Helping Hands shirts also showed the full name of the Church.
Another informative and thoughtful musing. Thank you. You are a gift.
I don’t think we can undo the Mormon nickname. That’s what we will be referenced as. As far as corporate status, I also considered this as a possibility.
Utterly refreshing. Lol. I’m super entertained by what you’ve shared.
Here is what I have observed. It is subtle, but members rather than defending Christ are defending themselves as the source of ‘all things Christ’. It has increased pride in the church.
A gentle arrogance that separates us, “you will refer to me by my proper title.”
It reminds me of doctors saying: “that’s doctor, I think I’ve earned it.”
I am not saying all members are like this, I am saying I have observed an increase in the idea that we are the true purveyors of Christ rather than followers of Christ.
I agree.
I am pleased to be a member of the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
I am also pleased to be called a “Mormon.” Mormon’s contribution to the work of salvation through his unimaginable editing of the records of the descendants of Lehi, all the while leading an unrighteousness people in battle after battle, and at the same time being a prophet to the church of Christ in his day is a marvel to me.
I also sustain and support President Nelson!
Thank you Connor for this well worded and common sense approach to this issue. I loved every minute of it.
Does anyone ever consider D&C 104:49-50? "You shall do your business in your own name, and in your own names." In light of this, how do we justify DBA (Doing Business As a corparation)?
@@maxilla_asini The Church Corporation represents the current prophet and therefore no one specific prophet only. But that said, they don’t own anything. The Church does, through the corporation. So the prophet represents both the Church and the Corporation of the Church. Church employees of the Corporation are separate from regular Church members callings. The employees work full time, get paid for their work and it is considered a calling by the Church as they represent it while employed. They handle tithing, hire lawyers and construction workers and consultants and contractors etc. They make investments to aid both the Church and the rest of the world including humanitarian agencies.
The Church has been trying to move into the mainstream of christianity for decades, by emphasizing Christ (which is good) but de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the restoration. I am not sure I understand the rationale.
In 2020 we celebrated the anniversary of the restoration and the church released a proclamation that you can access on the gospel library app, and this year we're studying The Book of Mormon 🤷♀️
Yes, but when was the last time you heard a talk on eternal progression?
@@oshemer5066 Oaks October 2023
@@DesertPrimroseI agree. But not with the OP here. How does the Church convert the entire world without going mainstream?
What the Church has de-emphasized is the Great Apostasy. Not the Restoration. The Restoration continues forever.
The rationale is that the Church wants all other religions to bring their truth into ours and emphasizing the Great Apostasy doesn’t do that because it declares them as being wrong. We do not have a monopoly on truth nor do we have all truth there is to know.
What the Prophet is emphasizing is that the name of the Church is what we represent to others when we do the WORK of the Church. We don’t speak for the Church but we do represent it when we do the work. Outside the Church work, saying Mormon to emphasize to non members that they can only use it when not referencing the name of the Church is the point of the video, and his ok with it.
How is diverting from using the "Mormon" nickname de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the Restoration?
Mormon was not directly involved with Joseph Smith nor the Restoration. He is a supportive person to the story at best.
Hi Connor. I just ran across this and thought you may find it interesting? Its in the JOD 5:21 talk. Its an interesting comparison to what you describe in this video of leaders who disagree or contradict each other. So the question arises after reading this, is who then is giving opinion or revelation?
Remarks by President Brigham Young, Delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City, August 2, 1857:
"I am thankful to hear the servants of God speak; and, as I have frequently said, I do not care what you say when you rise to speak here; for I want to know whether a man seeks with all his heart to know the mind of God concerning him. If he does, all is right with him.
Brother Heber alluded to counseling men and women who come to him after they had been to me, and said that they always received the same counsel I had given them. I never have known it to fail, that if they come to me and then go to brother Heber, they will get the same counsel all the time. And so they would from every one of the Twelve, from the High Council, from the Seventies, and High Priests and every officer in the Church, if every officer in the Church would take the course that brother Heber, and I, and a few others do. What is that? Never to give counsel, unless you have it to give. If you have counsel, give it, because you can have no correct counsel except by the Spirit of revelation: that is my standard. I have no counsel for a man, unless I have the testimony of Jesus on the subject. Then, when the same man asks counsel of me, and goes to brother Heber, do you not see that if he acts on the same principle and gives counsel, it must be by the Spirit of revelation; or he has no counsel to give, if it is not by that Spirit. Then let the same man go to brother Wells and ask his counsel on the same subject, without letting him know that he has been to Brigham or to Heber, and brother Daniel will give the same counsel by the same Spirit.
The difficulty with regard to giving counsel that conflicts consists in men's giving counsel from their own judgment, without the Spirit of God. Every man in the kingdom of God would give the same counsel upon each subject, if he would wait until he had the mind of Christ upon it. Then all would have one word and mind, and each man would see eye to eye.
But there is a weakness in the brethren, and it is in mankind in general. You ask almost any person in the world a question, and he thinks it a disgrace to be unable to answer it. He feels chagrined, his mind flags, when he finds that he is not quite as knowing as his neighbors think him to be; and, to avoid this, he will often venture an answer without knowing the facts in the case, or the effects of his answer.
If you would always pause and say, I have no counsel for you, I have no answer for you on this subject, because I have no manifestation of the Spirit, and be willing to let everybody in the world know that you are ignorant when you are, you would become wise a great deal quicker than to give counsel on your own judgment, without the Spirit of revelation. If the Elders of Israel would observe this rule, never to give counsel unless they give it by the testimony of the truth, by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, and, if they cannot give counsel in that manner, not to give any, there would be no conflicting counsel in the kingdom. All would be one; counsel would be one: we would soon come to understanding and be of one heart and mind, and our blessings would be increased upon us faster than in taking any other course.
May God bless you and preserve us in the truth. Amen."
I was born and raised in Anaheim California, and have live virtually my entire life outside of Utah, and never use the term Mormon in our wards and area, I always referred to myself as a Saint, Latter-day Saint, or member. As a recent member of the church's PR group, we encouraged ALL members to stop using the term Mormon, except for the Book of Mormon, which I fully agree with. Anyone who calls themself a Mormon, isn't a member of The Church of Jesus Christ, they're some non-existent group, ie, don't use Mormon's name, critics and enemies LOVE to capitalize on it.
I am no longer LDS but I am a Mormon.
I believe in the Book of Mormon.
"There is no salvation between the two lids of the Bible without a legal administrator." - Joseph Smith
Considering that would apply to all volumes of scripture, including the Book of Mormon, that leaves you and other "Mormon but not LDS," "Joseph but not Brigham," or "Jesus but not the prophet" folk in a real pickle.
@@jaredshipp9207 I prefer jam, thank you.😁
@@jaredshipp9207 Unless you believe a false prophet can be known by his fruit. Miracles have ceased in the Church.
@@Nunya45573 Says who?
@@jaredshipp9207 You can't prove a negative, can prove a positive. Got any proof of healing, resurrection of the dead, etc?
Do you have any books that you had written?
Thank you! I’m glad I’m not the only Mormon 😂 to feel this way. I also have wondered about the Lord’s instruction on calling His priesthood after Melchizedek. People rush through the name of the church now and His name. Every time I hear a person rush through His name by saying, “I’m a member of the Church of . . .” I cringe. I’m baffled as to why just the phrase “Latter-day Saint”is not more stressed. It sounds so much better than “Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,” which I find very redundant. It says what the members are to be called in the name of the church-Latter-day Saints. This is only four syllables, which is fewer than Jehovah Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, or Evangelical. It makes a lot more practical sense to have nonmembers use Latter Day Saint. Why the reluctance? I’m guessing members feel awkward calling themselves saints because of meaning the Catholic Church has brought on the word instead of the original meaning found in the New Testament. I think the “Anti-Mormon” campaign would have been more successful if Latter Day Saint would have been emphasized instead of saying the entire name of the church even when referring to members. That being said, “Mormon” is fine, and I still use it too. Great insight in 4 Nephi.
We have been counseled to not call ourselves "Mormons" because the name "Mormon" can and has been used as a derogatory term by Anti's to label members as less than Christian. However, the Anti's nor many of the LDS people understand the deeper meaning of the word "Mormon," nor why the Prophet Mormon chose to give the book of sacred writings this name... not because he wanted recognition for his abridgment, but for what the name represents.
First, we know that even though Mormon’s father was named Mormon (Mormon 1:5), he was not referred to as Mormon the Younger, like Alma the Younger. This is because in 3 Nephi 5:12 he says, “And behold, I am called Mormon, being called after the land of Mormon, the land in which Alma did establish the church among the people, yea, the first church which was established among them after their transgression.”
It was at the waters of Mormon where Alma and 204 souls made covenants and were baptized in the name of the Lord as a witness before him (Mosiah 18:5, 7-11). Thus the covenants were restored.
The prophet Mormon would have understood the Egyptian meaning of the word Mormon, and also the Hebrew word that would have represented that meaning. Mormon’s name is a combination of two ancient Egyptian words: mr, which means “Mary” or “love,” depending on the context, and mn, which means “enduring” and “everlasting.” Therefore, the two words combined means “love that endures forever.” This love is often translated as charity (that never faileth; 1 Cor. 13:8), and in Hebrew it is known as Chesed, which is the love of God that endures forever, as described by Mormon in Moroni 7:47-48. Mormon tells us we must pray with all the energy of our heart to be filled with Charity, for without it we cannot be like God, nor be with God (Ether 12:34).
Therefore, the true meaning of "Mormon" could be interpreted as: God's Love that Endures Forever through His Restored Covenants.
Very curious now to know what are we members of, what organization holds our membership? Are we orphans?
Fundamental: Follow the CURRENT prophet! When Pres. Benson became the president of the Church, then Elder Packer commented that now he, Pres. Benson, was free to bring all church expenditures under tithing, something he had wanted to do for awhile. And apparently it was known by the brethren that that had been his desire. This isn’t new. It is the Lord who chooses His prophet, and He is quite aware of his chosen servant’s vision. A great quote to remember from Pres. Holland: “Faith is for the future!”
Taylor Halverson says the root of the word Mormon may mean "Love endures forever." So, I'm not offended by it. I love the Book of Mormon which testifies of Christ.
The legal stuff is bizarre. I'd like to hear more about that.
I love both President Hinckley and President Nelson. I'm glad he'll be 100 years old soon and with that comes much wisdom. I pray the Lord continues to bless him for many more years.
❤
@@AnaliliB I'm not offended either. But people in my personal life use it like a slur... to make a point. It's silly.
It should have nothing to do with wisdom. Has everything to do with God speaking through Man. Recall the prophet Samuel was 14 y o. As Joseph Smith was.
We've been told for so long that it's OK for leaders to be really, really old because of their "wisdom". Scriptures don't support God's preference of an older man because he has wisdom, ever.
IMO, whether I am a member of the worldly legal organization through which the leaders of the church conduct the necessary affairs of the church is unimportant.
I agree almost without exception to your portrayal Of President Nelson‘s emphasis regarding how the church shall be called. The name was never in doubt. In my observation, the Lord allows, his leaders some leeway in governing his church. They are mostly right most of the time, but not exactly right all of the time. As leaders, we need to be careful to seek the will of the Lord at all times and not fashion matters to our own preferences/likings, last the members within our stewardship experience similar whiplash, and worse, a crisis of faith.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us 🙏 😊
I think that church members not being considered legal members isn't that big of a deal. Being a member of the church seems more like a spiritual status. Whether or not the government recognizes the church members as members seems irrelevant.
The vital functions of the church (your membership in the church, the prophet's authority, etc) aren't determined by the government. Your relationship with Christ's church isn't strengthened or weakened by how that church's legal organization is set up.
Because of this, I think that how legal organization of the church is handled is a question of prudence and pragmatism that depends on the circumstances of the time. When the government was going after the church, it was a good idea to legally decentralize everything. Today, with many Christian denominations adopting secular ideologies and going into schism with each other, it's probably a better idea to have a centralized legal setup. If not, we run the risk of having rogue local leaders splitting with the church over doctrinal differences and taking legal ownership of a bunch of LDS meeting houses, with nothing the prophet can do about it.
Non-Mormon here, but I know a lot about Mormonism. Connor, I absolutely love your Sunday musings, they're extremely insightful and no-nonsense. And it's for this very reason that I am starting to hurt for you a little bit on the inside, because I can clearly see the path you're on, I've seen it before. To quote Sans from Undertale...
"if you keep going the way you are now... you're gonna have a bad time."
Would love to see a diagram of all the sub orgs, LLCs, corps, etc that are "part of" The Corporation of the President of TCoJCoLdS; with where incorporated, purpose, tax status, revenues, assets, goverance, etc.
If we are not members of the church what are we members of exactly? This makes me have a lot of questions about tithing and other aspects of what people do to contribute to the progress of the church and it makes me wonder about the return on investment (not just financial investment) especially when people are struggling just to get by and are being taxed worse than serfs with no means provided to opt out of the system with the church providing a parallel system when it has been given the resources to do so by those who leadership refers to as “members”. Its quite baffling really.
I’m an ethic Mormon and proud of my Mormon ancestors despite not being a literal believer. I am a Mormon.
Congrats on the Tuttle Twins getting the ad spot on Candace Owens! Excellent partnership
We aren't "members" of the church (corporation sole), we're customers. Or maybe employees?
Or we are just donors?
Stockholders...
Stockholders would be a great idea! I wish we could make that happen.
@@moneymarty1nope can't cash out
I've wondered how this works. Just like how there is a "legitimate" gov't founded by the Constitution, that runs in parallel with the corporate gov't, there must also be the legitimate church of Christ, restored through Joseph Smith running parallel to the corporate church.
But where do we add individuals fit in?
Connor what you’re doing is a refreshing and great work! I’m glad I found you…I’ll follow your speaking out on VIP topics many of us who don’t blindly follow “.the brethren” or any other thing! It’s so exciting to discover there is someone who thinks, feels and anguishes over much in the church…like “why is church SO boring?!! I’ll be watching all! Now we need to follow the arrogant and “evil” history re the absolute prevalence of patriarchy; a massive correction must be made re the Sacred Feminine!!!
The whole Mormon thing being a victory for Satan is just plain stupidity. I’m a Mormon, have been for 52 years.
I have two issues / questions-
First, what are we supposed to call ourselves now? I believe that should have been considered and advised when this change was called for.
Second, with the onslaught of anti-Mormon internet content, any channel that kept the name Mormon in their content is a big warning of who is running it. So could that have been a reason?
Nelson and Hinkley went the rounds with the full name vs the nick name. I do agree that it should be named after Christ but until the leaders repent and come clean, does it really matter.
spot on. Hinkley, with his charm and superior oration skills was able to get the best of Nelson in General Conference. Nelson never forgot that and as soon as he became the president he made the change. To me it seems really petty.
@@americathebeautiful9613 it’s totally a grudge. He’s also trying to outshine Hinckley’s legacy on temple building, announcing endless temples that may or may not end up being completed, most of which will largely go unused.
@@americathebeautiful9613 Yep. They pretend that all is well and all the apostles agree and get along wonderfully but it really isn't that way.
You missed where President Hinckley said in October 1990 that the members should REREAD Elder Nelson's April 1990 talk about the actual name of the Church.
@@CMZIEBARTH Yes, I missed that. Just didn't know he did but not sure why you are saying that.