PIGMENTS VS PASTELS & Varnish Yes or No? Testing and Review!

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  • Опубликовано: 28 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 134

  • @ajkleipass
    @ajkleipass 3 года назад +12

    I'm a model railroader, first and foremost, and my first weathering efforts were with pastel chalks. I found that leaving them uncoated wasn't a problem, as handling them, over time, just further blended the weathering. Those first models are now 30+ years old, and while there's a whole pile of issues with them due to my skills, or lack thereof, back then, the pastel "dust" has held up very nicely.
    I'm still using my original box of pastels, and have added to them boxes of rust / earth shades and grey scale ones. I also now use panpastels, oil paint, artist acrylics, and gouache paints, to weather. For "crud", my favorite trick is using oil paint, unthinned, and adding some matching chalk or panpastel dust to it.

  • @outofthisworldmodelsandmin898
    @outofthisworldmodelsandmin898 3 года назад +11

    Hey Jay, I always go up a shade on my homemade pigments. That way, when they darken under the varnish, I have the exact color I originally wanted. This works great when you have a big box of pastels.

  • @power_SERG
    @power_SERG 3 года назад +15

    That ending is cool. Glad to see peoples proud work!

  • @srsgoblin
    @srsgoblin 3 года назад +55

    ... did you try just rubbing Cheeto dust on everything though? The fans demand it.

    • @TRUEiMPROrecords
      @TRUEiMPROrecords 3 года назад +4

      Sounds like a job for Brent from Goobertown Hobbies!

  • @davidlockey3615
    @davidlockey3615 3 года назад +2

    Great to see my work up there with such fantastic talent! Thanks for the shout out and amazing vid as usual, keep up the good work!!!

  • @jherazob
    @jherazob 3 года назад +4

    I had heard of this technique for years from old-timers but the first video i saw of it was from Midwinter Minis. Guy did similar tests wi similar conclusions, although he also added hairspray as a fixative among the options, which ended being his favoritee, worth a try. My takaway seems to be:
    * Grind the pastels more. No, even more. A bit more than that. Yeah, about there.
    * Finish almost completely the piece.
    * Gloss then matt varnish.
    * Add pigments.
    * Seal them wwit matt as shown.
    * Add any water-like effects (blood, toxic, water, gloss-coat stuff like gems, etc.) because this before the matt varnish will get killed
    * Maybe add a tiny bit final pigment effects
    Sounds right to me at least

  • @saneforshowrevival4315
    @saneforshowrevival4315 3 года назад +1

    By far the best tuto on pigment powders! Thank you guys, that was awesome!

  • @Gingerbread22
    @Gingerbread22 3 года назад

    A bonus simple use of the Krylon fixit that is nice is to flock large bases. You can spray where you want then dip or pour the flock and will stick pretty well.

  • @gendoikari6062
    @gendoikari6062 2 года назад +2

    You guys bring soo much good to the world ! ( the modeling world, that is! ..who cares about other worlds!!)
    Good luck you boys!

  • @Servus-Dei83
    @Servus-Dei83 3 года назад +3

    New intro is amazing

  • @piotrcthlu
    @piotrcthlu Год назад

    You can put it in a folded piece of paper, give it one or two hits with a glass or a bottle, and then roll the bottle back n forth. creates super fine powder :)

  • @Zawpi
    @Zawpi 3 года назад +5

    This video would've been perfect for when I based all my seraphon army a year ago! oh well, thanks for the information for future projects!

  • @LordOOTFD
    @LordOOTFD 3 года назад +1

    Thanks for showing us the base coat, I'm definitely going to try using that technique for my corroded paint schemes. You should try again at some point using actual artists grade pastels, like Unison or Sennelier. You used basic cheap student grade pastels which will have much less pigment than a high quality pastel, and artist grade pastels tend to be much softer due to the high pigment which should make it easier to get a fine powder. Pure pigment powder would also be interesting to try but is an inhalation risk due to the ultra fine particles so might not be easy for anyone without proper PPE.

  • @farpointgamingdirect
    @farpointgamingdirect 3 года назад

    I have been grinding pastels and using them for years; roughly crush them like you did then finish them off with an old electric spice grinder; been using fixatif as well

  • @jack-a-lopium
    @jack-a-lopium 2 года назад

    Amazing tutorial, thank you so much!
    Gunna give pigments a try... now more confidently.

  • @janczaplinski658
    @janczaplinski658 3 года назад

    Videos like this are the reason I like your channel

  • @herculeholmes504
    @herculeholmes504 3 года назад +2

    I should think you could get a finer and more consistent powder simply by using a pestle & mortar. I don't think pigment powders a rip-off - there's really quite a lot of it in each pot - but I'd be inclined to buy a cheap set of pastels if I only needed tiny quantities.

    • @srsgoblin
      @srsgoblin 3 года назад +1

      All you gotta do to get it a consistent grain is to use a sieve.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      A morter and pestle sounds like a lot of work to me, a few taps with a hammer made them totally usable as pigments after only a couple seconds.

  • @GandalfGreyPill
    @GandalfGreyPill 3 года назад +1

    snagging some chalk pastels asap, thanks for the tip! awesome alternative to the costly pigments

  • @TheWeakenedWarrior
    @TheWeakenedWarrior 3 года назад

    Very scientific. I love your approach.

  • @ErokLobotomist
    @ErokLobotomist 3 года назад

    I bought some red natural pigments a while back, Iron Oxide and Red Ochre in particular. Haven't had a chance to mix anything up yet but I'm pretty excited to get started. There are a few websitres that sell 5oz pouches of pigments for decent prices.

  • @daltonellington1340
    @daltonellington1340 3 года назад +3

    Been wanting to get some dry pigments, but havent been too fond of the price. Never thought of pastels, but Im definitely gonna try crushing up my own pigments!! Im gonna get a cheap mortar and pestle, i think that will get them crushed up really well.

    • @MrAndersonMusic056
      @MrAndersonMusic056 3 года назад

      I just did this. Got a set from Walmart for abt $6 and made some cool ones.

  • @neilbrown2451
    @neilbrown2451 3 года назад

    Thanks. I don't have pigments but did buy a set of pastels to try exactly this, so you saved me some time 😁

  • @archfrank
    @archfrank 3 года назад +2

    I mean at this point if you just crush more carefully and consistently (bigger bag + rolling pin is my guess) you're well on your way to never buying the specialized products!

  • @erink1709
    @erink1709 3 года назад

    Have you ever tried pan pastels? I've used them for polymer clay, but not yet for painted models. If you want to keep trying to use the cheaper art pastels (and maybe blend custom color mixes), you can get a mini food processor or spice grinder for pretty cheap and it might chop up the pastels better than a bag&hammer. It worked pretty well when I tried it, but I already had the sacrificial art food processor, and I didn't have the Vallejo pigments to compare.

  • @Lorkynn
    @Lorkynn 3 года назад +2

    You could always get a small spice/coffee grinder to get a finer pigment from the pastels

    • @casanovafunkenstein5090
      @casanovafunkenstein5090 3 года назад

      Only difficulty with that is the cleaning but arguably if you're only likely to use a couple of colours you could just buy several/reuse empty salt or pepper grinders for each colour and fill them with broken up pastels

  • @cashs2599
    @cashs2599 3 года назад +1

    Those terrain pieces look great!

  • @kingsnogaryen6292
    @kingsnogaryen6292 3 года назад +1

    I love my Krylon spray stuff, I use their Camo flat primer, that fixit looks neat

  • @joaofontes2
    @joaofontes2 3 года назад +2

    You can use a pestle and mortar to grind the pigments to your heart content, making it as fine as the "professional" ones.

  • @brandonwright7950
    @brandonwright7950 3 года назад +1

    Excellent info as usual. Thank you!!

  • @wampasaurus8964
    @wampasaurus8964 3 года назад

    Another good hobby tip for pastels is to order a pack of plastic portion cups with lids to store all the pastels. I ground them up and it's great for them and they don't stick to the inside of a sealable sandwich bag like you used. Good video also when Nick does that voice I can see him in a striped vest and straw boaters hat twirling his mustache sinisterly (if he had one)

  • @4plainlimbs
    @4plainlimbs 3 года назад +4

    Can you do a video on using mineral spirits to make your own washes? The way you used it on your necrons in your week long painting video was interesting showing the ability for it to seep into the recesses.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад +1

      I sure can! adding it to the list.

    • @4plainlimbs
      @4plainlimbs 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle thanks! loving the content, really helping me with the hobby. The nostalgia videos as well are great, even though I wasn't alive/ in the hobby when the miniatures came out it's great to see the legacy. Keep it up!

  • @bubger
    @bubger 3 года назад +2

    My method has been spraying a bit of alcohol through the airbrush. Changes almost nothing about the look, keeps it all secure.

    • @Unit-ro6km
      @Unit-ro6km Год назад

      2 years late, but Im going to try anyway:
      I was thinking this too. Does the air blow the pigments away too much?

  • @elronman
    @elronman 2 года назад

    Only issue I saw was there was little to no feathering. Which is something pre grounded powder will excel at. Like you said because consistancy. It's like comparing some craft acrylics to vallejo, but painting out of the bottle with both.

  • @jimboscustoms
    @jimboscustoms 2 дня назад

    Excellent video dude ive got some pastels coming soon im keen to try them out

  • @vidi5086
    @vidi5086 3 года назад +1

    Thank you for the video !

  • @desdichado-007
    @desdichado-007 3 года назад

    This is interesting, but I've also heard that soft vs hard pastels have a different result on models, with hard pastels having less pigment but more binder, and that they perform closer to weathering powders in some ways. I'm also curious about using some of the colored pastels (i.e., not obviously rust and dirt colored) can be used to create the look of faded paint by mixing colors close to the base coat on colored parts. I know, I know, that's scope creep. But I'm curious!

  • @LordChumbley
    @LordChumbley 3 года назад +1

    You should try higher quality pastels, might be just as expensive as dry pigments, but cheaper pastels have higher chalk to pigment ratio. Or you could add powdered chalk to dry pigments to dial down intensity and stretch them out longer.

    • @Abraksas112
      @Abraksas112 Год назад

      Faber Castell makes quite high quality pastels ;)

  • @echoban2493
    @echoban2493 3 года назад +5

    Try using a coffee grinder to powder the pigments. Great video btw!

  • @TRUEiMPROrecords
    @TRUEiMPROrecords 3 года назад

    So glad you showed how you painted those walls.. I think you broke the record for "Most painting tips per minute" with just that sidenote! Instasubbed.

  • @godsmote6719
    @godsmote6719 3 года назад +2

    I grind my pastels down on wet dry paper, quality wise at this point they look and behave exactly the same as the weathering pigments at a fraction of the cost!

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад +1

      my secret weapon pigments cost 5$ and have lasted a long time! the same cost as most paints.

    • @godsmote6719
      @godsmote6719 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle I buy 20 pastels for £2 so still quite a bit cheaper, though I’d need to buy 3 packs to get same quantity, but I come out with twenty tubs of pigment for the cost of two offical ones, down side is I do get colours im unlikely to ever use, but grinding em with wet dry paper gives that same fluffy quality

  • @guillermomelendez7950
    @guillermomelendez7950 3 года назад +1

    Maybe grind the sticks on a fine sand paper.

  • @stephenx2857
    @stephenx2857 3 года назад

    most people "grind" their pastels using sand paper. crushing it with a hammer is pretty crude. you can also mix the pastel powders to customize whatever color you're going for.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      the hammer might be crude but it worked no fuss no mess no cleanup 10 seconds of taping.

  • @markgnepper5636
    @markgnepper5636 3 года назад

    Great stuff friend 👏 👍

  • @xenocide1307
    @xenocide1307 3 года назад

    Basic mortar and pestle or an old coffee grinder does decent work breaking pigments down by hand if you don't want to go the pro products route.

  • @jakubkrolczyk856
    @jakubkrolczyk856 3 года назад +1

    Love the way you pronounced my nickname Kubiszon, love it :D

  • @Lodorn
    @Lodorn 3 года назад

    Doesn't putting the crackle paint and the texture on the plastic without priming it first kind of defeat the purpose of priming?

  • @hugheja89
    @hugheja89 2 года назад

    Can you not use those varnishes without an airbrush then?

  • @justincrawford5992
    @justincrawford5992 3 года назад

    Is there a reason you didn't try any of the enamel pigment fixers?

  • @Moredakkamus
    @Moredakkamus 2 года назад

    Ive watched high level historical modelers make pigments from pastels, they grind them with a cheese grater (the fine parmesan side) and then run them through a fine sieve. I think getting a finer product would make it identical to the stuff from the mini companies.

  • @mgentile7
    @mgentile7 Год назад

    What about Bragdon Enterprises pigments? They are some of the best I have used.

  • @Eman-qv4kv
    @Eman-qv4kv 3 года назад

    I heard oil paints can "eat" through regular paints that you have painted and that you should put a protective matt coat in between types of paint-do you know if this is true?

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      yes, you do need to apply a varnish over your acrylic paints before you apply oils.

  • @stefanhoover9888
    @stefanhoover9888 3 года назад

    Great video! I’m considering trying the pastel method out and I don’t have an airbrush. Will applying varnish with a paintbrush remove the pigments? Or do I need to buy a varnish in a spray can?

  • @gordonforsyth7036
    @gordonforsyth7036 2 года назад

    Hi mate love the content glad I found this one - if I was going for a mars theme base just bought some kromlech rust powders but I’m not sure how to set it as the legs in the minis are metallic and I want to get the dust effect in the base and the legs so going off your suggestion would isopropyl be the best idea as I think I actually want the pigment to move into natural positions but still look dry on completion - I seen another guide issuing a powder setting enamel I don’t know if you have any experience with this ?

  • @tjdoc143
    @tjdoc143 3 года назад +1

    You could try grinding the pastels after a quick smash with a hammer or rolling pin. Use an old coffee grinder.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      that sounds like a hassle to me, a few taps with the hammer made them totally usable as pigments, I got almost identical results with them in this experiment. no need to clean a coffee grinder 24 times.

    • @tjdoc143
      @tjdoc143 2 года назад

      Here I am a year later, finally giving in and just saying the hell with it and buying Vallejo pigments! Always a pleasure to watch your videos, keep up the great work!

  • @Spiraticus
    @Spiraticus 3 года назад

    Another great video! Quick, semi-related question: I’ve recently gotten into airbrushing and even with all the anti-clog measures I’ve learned, the Stynylrez primer still clogs my Patriot 105. Do you have any advice for preventing this or efficiently cleaning the needle?

  • @sirdrakey
    @sirdrakey 3 года назад

    Looks like fun!

  • @bretts2356
    @bretts2356 3 года назад +1

    New graphics! Nice work!

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      thanks! we worked hard on those

    • @bretts2356
      @bretts2356 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle Now you have time to write more Mark Hamill fan fiction! And fix my patreon level on the videos, ya noobs!

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      You have been moved up via executive order! And so because you paid for it!

  • @ogrokun
    @ogrokun 3 года назад

    No need to crush your pastel pencil with a hammer
    I keep it stored in the original brick format, and when I need it I scrape it with a x-acto blade, or sand it with sandpaper.

  • @redhotswing
    @redhotswing 3 года назад

    I'm curious how different the results would be if you put the powders onto a sticky wet surface instead of varnishing after they're applied. Brush on a little matte medium and then pig mint away.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад +1

      you definitely can do that and Vallejo makes a product called pigment binder for just that purpose.

    • @redhotswing
      @redhotswing 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle Cool! How does the finished result compare?

  • @capidano6248
    @capidano6248 3 года назад

    Awesome video, I love the look that pigments can give in certain situations, but I have/am a little scared on using them, as we use our mini's in games, not just for displays.... your video was awesome and informative, willing to give it a go now .... maybe... lol , but it did get me closer to making the dive into using them!

  • @BinxyBrown
    @BinxyBrown 3 года назад

    You can use sand paper to just quickly get whatever amount of pigment you need from the chalk and then chalk goes back in the box

  • @spacerx
    @spacerx 2 года назад

    In other words; if you spend a little more time at the crushing phase in the very beginning, in theory you can't tell the difference in usage. If you don't, there'll be some difference in usage and time spent applying, but probably nothing noticeable in the end outcome.

  • @kusodm2347
    @kusodm2347 3 года назад

    Nice video. I can tell that you're reading off a cue card or something, and looking off to stage right. In the future maybe you can move it further stage left.

  • @Eckpaints
    @Eckpaints 3 года назад

    Interesting, I hate been debating whether or not to sacrifice my pastels, might just do it now.

  • @alexanderk.7782
    @alexanderk.7782 3 года назад +1

    better smaller result if you scratch with your blade the pigments from the block... and fill then in litte bootle...

  • @lukaslawrence8863
    @lukaslawrence8863 3 года назад

    Please, make once a meme video, I love your humour and you are my favourite mini-painter yt channel just because of those jokes xD

  • @kaijuk
    @kaijuk 2 года назад

    I buy boxes of chalk pastels for £1 a box I buy 5-10 boxes at once, grind them in a junk coffee grinder I don't use and I have a lot of colours and product for pence, I only use pan pastels for figure bodies or faces combined with airbrush Vallejo Matt varnish or Mr super clear.
    I don't see the point of high prices for items like this for weathering, I paid £10 once for just over an ounce of scatter from a well know Miniatures specialists and I got it in a small microwave food container the type you get takeaway in and inside was literally a sprinkling of dirt,fine grit and chopped dried grass... I can get that in my garden for free 😂😂 but we live and learn 👍🏻

  • @Binks182
    @Binks182 3 года назад +1

    Do a video on how to paint large scale minatures

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      yep! I will add it to the list.

    • @Binks182
      @Binks182 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle awesome! Im painting my first one and im terrified to mess it up

  • @elrondorio
    @elrondorio 3 года назад

    has anyone mentioned grinding pigments with mortar and pestle? Those are specific tools for grinding stuff up into powder and should still be available...though apart from science stores I don't know where else.

    • @elrondorio
      @elrondorio 3 года назад

      ah Dalton beat me to it lol

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      buying a mortar and pestle to grind up art pastels seems a little silly when pigment powders cost the same as regular model paint.

    • @elrondorio
      @elrondorio 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle yeah but I'm kinda science-y in my hobbies and guys can never have too many tools! Can they?

  • @alexthompson3447
    @alexthompson3447 3 года назад +1

    Have you (or anyone else) tried make up powders?

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      on my face yes! on my models no.

  • @jasonarthur5487
    @jasonarthur5487 3 года назад

    I liked how the pastels left a subtle look. Think the pigments was too elaborate.

  • @simonmears4073
    @simonmears4073 3 года назад +1

    Cheeto dust, why didn’t I think of that.

  • @gruvee9334
    @gruvee9334 11 месяцев назад

    It's a whole lot of hassle for a whole lot of worth it. :3

  • @coryway6951
    @coryway6951 3 года назад

    I just mix matte medium and pigments then apply.

  • @sebastiendesautels8567
    @sebastiendesautels8567 3 года назад

    Really cool! Gonna crush some pastels :)

  • @xRepoUKx
    @xRepoUKx 3 года назад

    Icy propyl? 🤔😁. Excellent test.

  • @LudicrousScotty101
    @LudicrousScotty101 2 года назад

    i hate using weathering pigments that brush on, my reason is simple caz with time they could easily come off jus as easy as dust.

  • @robertlocock5636
    @robertlocock5636 3 года назад +1

    An old trick we used to use at art college to fix pastels and charcoal was to use hair spray. Should work for mini's as long as you don't get them wet.

    • @andytate5670
      @andytate5670 3 года назад

      thats what I use cheapest hairspray possible

  • @DamienMorphetMetalheadChef
    @DamienMorphetMetalheadChef 3 года назад +1

    Ok, so, a flaw in the experiment. The consistency of the diy was up to your method.
    If you had used a method such as a grinder to fully grind the pastels, they would have been more consistently powdered. Otherwise a pretty fair assessment.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      true but I didn't want to do a bunch of work, and they were really darn close with just a few scrapes off the pastels vs the perfectly pulverized product.

    • @DamienMorphetMetalheadChef
      @DamienMorphetMetalheadChef 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle I get that. I was just pointing out that; the reason you stated that the powders are better, was something that is controlled by you.
      I will agree though, that bespoke weathering powders are stronger, effect wise.

  • @BullScrapPracEff
    @BullScrapPracEff 3 года назад

    The thing you're missing from your terrain making kit is a coffee grinder...

  • @TKs3DPrints
    @TKs3DPrints 3 года назад

    should have tried hair spray also jay :)

  • @TheKlabim
    @TheKlabim 3 года назад +1

    If you ever start observing Jay's eyebrows jumping up and down you can not stop and unsee them

  • @aaronbrown4275
    @aaronbrown4275 3 года назад

    An old coffee grinder can make easy work of pastel chalks.

    • @JMcMillen
      @JMcMillen 3 года назад

      An old fashion mortar and pestle would work as well.

  • @bokbokbagawk
    @bokbokbagawk 3 года назад

    Sidewalk chalk, friends

  • @tiagodagostini
    @tiagodagostini 3 года назад

    What was lacking is the simple explanation.. pigments are what make syour paints have color. Paints are just pigments in a binder. Pastels are compressed pigments mixed with Acacia Sap and depending on the pigment calcium carbonate.

    • @tiagodagostini
      @tiagodagostini 3 года назад

      Also you can get pure pigments cheaper than pastels or vallejo stuff. Just go to dickblic and check for pure pigments used to make home made oil paints.

  • @ultimapanzer
    @ultimapanzer 2 года назад

    Wouldn't a $10 electric coffee grinder finish off those pastels for you?

  • @thth-sv4bt
    @thth-sv4bt 3 года назад

    7:11 what does "wetcoat" mean? I'm not a native english speaker, and using google didn't help.

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад +1

      when airbrushing usually you want the paint to dry after a second or two of landing on the model but a wet coat is just spraying fast and getting the entire model saturated in wet varnish and allowing it to dry. It's a much thicker coat of paint.

    • @thth-sv4bt
      @thth-sv4bt 3 года назад

      @@EonsOfBattle thanks

  • @cleandeskpolicy
    @cleandeskpolicy 3 года назад

    Hi, unfortunately you make it sound as if pigments only exist in the dry pigments. I'm a huge fan of the pastel kind since some time back. Thanks for a nice show

  • @Jokreher
    @Jokreher 3 года назад

    A ball mill will get you better pulverized results.

  • @kingsnogaryen6292
    @kingsnogaryen6292 3 года назад +1

    This comment is for the RUclips algorithm.

  • @Dragonfire-tn2jg
    @Dragonfire-tn2jg 3 года назад

    Grind the pastel with a cheap coffee grinder, and i buy my pastel at Walmart 36 pastels for 8$.

  • @ger5956
    @ger5956 3 года назад

    Don’t forget to like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 😁👍🏼

    • @EonsOfBattle
      @EonsOfBattle  3 года назад

      business daddy google is pleased by your comment!

  • @tobiassellberg6509
    @tobiassellberg6509 3 года назад

    You'll get the record for most adverts. 5 double adds for an 11min video... bravo!

  • @chrisviggiano3543
    @chrisviggiano3543 3 года назад

    bro you never blink lol

  • @megusto5712
    @megusto5712 2 года назад

    You don’t need a top coat to create a barrier to protect your miniature from your greasy Cheetos fingers if you don’t fuckin eat while to paint or play with the expensive miniature

  • @D.von.N
    @D.von.N Год назад

    lovely work, but gosh, you are frying your voice...