Grinding Aluminum using the Fischer977 method.
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Fischer977 asked if we had any tips for grinding Aluminum in the comment section of our last video. Adam and I thought that would make a great video so we started right away and this is the results of that request. I stopped after .031" on the first wheel even though I think I could have gone twice that or more.
talk about supporting your subscribers. that was a lot of effort. thanks again.
Thanks James.
39C and 37C Silicon carbide is your friend on aluminum and cast Iron. With flood coolant that has a high mineral oil content you can grind aluminum just like steel.
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin,
I have never used the silicon carbide wheels before but plan on getting dome next time I order wheel.
Steve
I've been planning to get into Aluminum grinding but at the same time I'm kinda concerned about the risk of fine aluminum particles and Alzheimer's / (progressive heavy metal poisoning ?). Old machinist(s) I have known from Aerospace eventually needed chelation therapy to try and help remove heavy metals (but usually too late by then). Am I being overly paranoid about aluminum grinding ? A lot of high precision (laboratory) stages and equipment are made of Aluminum and have ground reference surfaces (but maybe after (Hard Coat) anodizing ?) ~ Different wheels right ?
@@extradimension7356 You can mitigate the dust by using a wheel cover that encloses the wheel as much as possible and vacuum extraction attached to that. Flood coolant will also contain some of the dust. Wear a mask too for belt and braces.
@@spankeyfish Thanks so much for that - been looking for such advice.
I know you made this 5 years ago but I'm just getting around to seeing it now. Our company has been grinding 6061-T6 Aluminum to very close tolerances and finish specifications for over 25 years. It's a process that requires lots of outside of the box thinking. The special wheels the manufacturers suggest are very expensive, but I have found that a decent 46 Grit, H Hardness wheel under $300 works fine. I suppose the $1000 wheel they suggest may last longer, but this works for us for the number of parts per wheel purchase. We also use the same exact coolant, but at 7% mix with water. We hold .0005" flatness and maintain a 16 rms surface finish.
You gave me some help my sine table magnet.
I did get it done but I first put it my bench mill and faced about .025" off to strengthen it up . It took another .002" grinding to clean it up and get the face mill marks out . A couple of tenths at a time and dressing about three times. Persistence won out as it usually does . I also beefed up my setup which helped too . Thanks for your input . I had surface ground before but always someone else
surfaced the magnet .
Glad I could help out.
Steve
I boldly or stupidly ground the aluminum cylinder head on my Volvo turbo using my Boyer Schultz surface grinder . Seemed to work out okay but time will tell. Barely made it fit to the grinder.
Thanks for this excellent tutorial. The wheels are often a mystery.
_Dan_
You're welcome Dan.
Steve
Hi steve. Can't thank you enough for your time and efforts. When grinding aluminium the best lubricant i found was 2% mixed regular lube (i use british lube called morris).
After grinding aluminium i dio the wheel in petroleum for a night and then use brass brush.
I will try these open wheels you use. Never even thought to try them but i see you're using them a lot and they are very versatile.
Thanks again!
Hi Fischer,
I am the one who should be thanking you for bringing the topic up. I learned a lot myself and was very surprise to see how well the open structure wheel worked. Robin R. suggested "39C and 37C Silicon carbide" I have never used them before but plan on ordering some next time I order wheels. Hopefully they come in open structure as well. Yes! I love that first wheel a lot and it is quickly becoming my go to wheel for many applications.
Steve
Wow. I've never had the need to grind Aluminum, but the coolant trick is great. I tend to like Crisco oil for small features, using a grinder similar to the one you have . For large surfaces I use flood coolant on our 32 x 16 Okamoto. You really have me sold on the open structure wheels. The Okamoto uses very large wheels, but I think I'm going to be going with the Radiac. Thanks Steve, and son's.
Hi Max,
Thanks for sharing. I never tried Crisco oil before but I bet you would get good results with that too. One of the things I like about using undiluted coolant is that I won't contaminate the coolant already in the machine.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. Yup.. that's right. It will just mix in with what you already have. So other than fine finishing or close quarters details, is there anything you don't use the open structure wheels for?
Hi Max,
I would not use then for form grinding, side wheel work or holding tight corner radius. The open structure breaks down to quick for that type of work.
Steve
Not Crisco oil, Crisco shortening is what I have used. Smear some on. Mixed results.
That was really interesting, I didnt know aluminum could be ground. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome Richard.
Steve
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
Thanks Steve! That was interesting. I have no idea when or if I'll ever need to grind aluminum, but now I have a pretty good idea how.
By the way, pick up a 3M P100 type respirator. I think I paid $16 for my mask and first set of filters (just grabbed it while I was getting my welding gas), and I find it very comfortable for extended use. There are different versions, but the basic one should be fine for your use.
Thanks Jon,
I had a nice respirator but my daughters confiscated that as well.
Steve
Nice video Steve, I really like the the Radiac wheels. That 46 you used is my all around favorite wheel!
Mine too!
Steve
The fine and excellent finish on your aluminum grinding test most definitely must be due to your modified toothbrush - LOL!
No, this is most valuable information to me since I was told by an "Expert Machinist" that you can not under any circumstances grind aluminum! Thank you so much for sharing this most interesting information and keep up your great work!
Hi Alex,
Grinding aluminum can be very difficult unless you approach it differently than normal grinding. I can understand why some would make a statement like that. A green silicon carbide wheel is the best way to go.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you Steve!
Thanks! Very interesting - I have never put aluminum in my surface grinder but have wondered about it for years. I will have no fear about it now and probably come up with a project to make use of it.
Adam, It looked to me that the camera was auto focusing on the vice below the top of the shinny aluminum surface. I could not make out the ground surface - or my eyes are blurred out from watching boobtube videos. Maybe place a reference object on the surface so the auto focus can grab it.
You're welcome Green Range. Thanks for the tip on the auto focus.
Steve
I think it would have been nice to have the picture in picture to have been an up close look of the surface as it was being ground rather than of you cranking the wheel. How do you like the Cimperial 1070? Do you use it on your mill too? I have been thinking about trying it the next time I cnage my flood coolant out but never have found anybody that used it. I currently am using rustlick ultracut pro and it works ok but I feel it doesn't help as much as it could with the cutting action and is mainly just a coolant.
Hi Brian,
I love the cimperial 1070 in the surface grinder. Using a filter sock like Greg Kozak recommended and using distilled water and a fish tank aerator this coolant goes a long time without getting bad or dirty. I have never used it for machining so I don't know how well it works there.
Steve
Thanks for the reply. I may just have to get a bucket and give it a try.
Bbloc02 do some research on Cimcool products. Many people have had allergic reactions to their coolant, personally I will never use it again ( Terrible Sump Life ). I have used Rustlick Powerchip 2000 and Ultracut 380. I also feel that Rustlick coolant is designed for flushing, cooling and sump life. In manual machining or short run manufacturing I am not confident coolant choice makes a big difference in performance. Try running a higher concentration first.
Hi Chis,
Are you talking about water soluble or synthetic or both? Adam has serve allergic reaction to the synthetic to the point he will even start coughing up blood (Fuch) after about a week of being around it. The Cimperial 1070 doesn't seem to bother him. I have read that the synthetics will dry up your mucus membranes and cause problems for many people.
Steve
I'm a fan of TRIM MicroSol 585XT. It is a semisynthetic coolant, works great for the mill and lathe. I don't do a lot of grinding but I run it there too. The sump life is amazing! I start off with about an 8% solution but have to add 1% all the time to make up for loss. Even after a couple years use, no coolant change just adding makeup, it still looks and smells great. You do have to run a skimmer to keep the tramp oil off the top so it doesn't go anaerobic on you. I don't run an aeration pump either.
I waiting on a ?norton wheel. It’s silicon carbide, 60 grit, non porous, J hardness. It’s rated, by Norton for Bronze; Natural Stone; 300 Series Stainless; Aluminum; Brass; Titanium; Gray Iron; Masonry; Copper. I’ve never tried this before, so it should. E an interesting experience. I really mostly want it for cast iron, but I’m going to be trying g it on the other substances as well. I’m particularly curious as to how it works with stone as I wasn’t expecting that to be in the list.
Surprisingly the course 46 grit wins. I bet the same principle applies to sanding belts. And the coolant made the difference
That was a trick my dad taught me decades ago.
Steve
Hi Steve. Thanks for the replies to my D2 dilemma which worked out fine. Short laugh here. I worked for a company doing Pratt engines and they hired a safety officer who was a former CT. state trooper. Oh No! ;- ) Anyway someone complained when new guys were grinding AL on the pedestal grinder claiming the wheel can explode from heat and that became policy to never grind aluminum. I understood the frustration of an AL packed wheel but it's entirely possible to surface grind AL as I have many times. I flat ground real flimsy castings of some virgin material with much luck using either grease, oil or paraffin wax on both the wheel, part or both. It sticks pretty well with light coolant also. Occasionally I would rub a little mud off the wheel with a wire or brass brush and solvent or DW40. Works well.
ps. even using a fairly hard 60 K was fine.
Hi Do Right,
I am glad the D2 project work out for you. Thanks for sharing with us your experiences with Aluminum.
Steve
Thanks Steve, that was fantastic. One question what alloy of aluminum and which heat treatment did it have? If you told us I missed it, thanks.
Hi carlquip,
I don't know what alloy the Aluminum was. It was some scrape piece from our 20" disc sander build.
Steve
Great experiment, found out a few new things.
Thanks Randy.
Hello Daddy Steve, is there a reason behind using the soluble oil instead of kerosine?
I have never used kerosene. I would be scared of the fire hazard and fumes. I have set fires in a lathe while hard turning when the red hot chips fell into the chip pan that had a little way oil in it. Machine fires are not fun. This video was to demonstrate that you can still grind Aluminum with Aluminum Oxide wheels with a few tricks. As Robin pointed out green silicon carbide wheel is the go to wheel if you have one. They do make straight oil based grinding fluids but I have no experience with them.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Hello Daddy Steve I totally appreciate how detailed you explained things to me. Thank you very much. I quiet remember I read somewhere in a mechanical book called chapman that the ideal cooling agent for alumimium is kerosene and I have been using it ever since and it works good for me. That is what made me to find out from you why you used the slurry instead.
we used to use Crisco in the mold business for taking off large amounts put on the part, not the wheel
Joe
Thanks a1woody11,
It looks like Crisco has a few fans. Thanks for sharing.
Steve
Nice job! Is there an advantage of having a arbor for each grinding wheel?
Hi The JR914,
If you take the time to balance the wheels then dedicated hubs would be nice.
Steve
I ground some Ally blocks last weekend using an A60 wheel 1/2 thou depth of cut with WD40 smeared over the part. Ive tried wax in the past. But I find wheel clogging is terrible with wax.
Thanks for sharing Seventy 7. We are about to post an update on this video showing the load pattern on the second wheel. I think the combination of the open structure and undiluted coolant work hand in hand.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. yeah I think your onto something there. I was always told to grind Ally with black silicon carbide wheels. But they are hard to find in my country.
For taking ultra light sizing cuts of removal of .0001" or less use a green wheel normally used for carbide. Not sure how it works on aluminum.
You are wise using the face mask. The original cast for Wizard of Oz had Buddy Ebsen as the Tinman. They powdered him with loose aluminum dust, and he had lung problems (he said it was emphysema) disable him, so the part was given to Jack Haley. They used aluminum powder mixed with Vaseline so they didn't lose a second Tinman.
Hi weshowe,
I am glad I decided on the mask too. It would have been a mistake not to especially with how much stock was taking out in .001" increments.
Steve
Great vid Steve!!!!!!!!
Thanks Ernie.
Steve
Interesting. Thanks for all the hard work.
You're welcome John.
Steve
yo yo yo yo YO! IS THAT A SUPRA ?!?!??!
Yes it is a 618 II.
I thought silicon carbide was the wheel for aluminium, no?
Yes, but if you do not have one this will work too.
Steve
Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
What DRO are you using?
It is an Acu-Rite model 200s 2xc
Steve
Sir you have job for chater mark no finishing kn
The finish came out great using this method.
Steve
Sir aluminium grinding wheel grade
This video was for those who do not have a green silicon wheel at the moment and still need good results in Aluminum. The proper wheel is the best way to go though.
Steve
Got 3M double sided tape with AL tomorrow ;- ) .0005 flat ... parallel. The whole lot. Why not? Ya know? I remember the parallelogram as being for flatness on the old Pratt drawings. Now it's flat and parallel as the symbol suggests. Go figure. Makes sense doesn't it? Rare is that flat is more important than parallel. Anyway. You know not to mind the debates and negative. I'll check back soon as I have seemingly become the new shop grinder lol.. Thankx Steve. Chris
Hi Do Right,
Thanks for sharing and congrats on the promotion.
Steve
Anyone know how to o.d. grind aluminum.
Hi Paul,
Have you tried a Green Silicon Carbide wheel?
Steve
why bother use a sharp fly cutter and get as good of surface finish. smh
This was a test to see if you can grind Aluminum with Aluminum Oxide wheels.