The gearbox controller has its issues which is part of the reason for the slow shifts. It functions as a proof of concept as I was told on numerous occasions that “it’s impossible to do, you won’t be able to do that”. The MSS52 DME is also unable to deal with torque cut over Canbus to allow a snappy fast gear change. To work round this issue, there is a hard ignition cut on gear change (which is why it stalls outside Devils Diner after the lap due to upshift selected by accident) to allow mechanical sympathy on both engine and gearbox. The engine and gearbox will be controlled by Maxxecu when the next major update to the setup is done. There’ll also be some other major changes too, but that’s for a future video. If I was to go back to 2019 when I started this project knowing what I do now, I’d of not bothered wasting the money and left the 420G box in instead. It’s been enjoyable, but financially a mistake but I don’t regret it as it’s opened up a whole different game of track enjoyment. Cheers to Misha for jumping in as it was seeing him in an E36 with DCT conversion around 4 years ago that inspired me to do the project - zero regrets on that front 🫡🥳
brilliant for sticking with it and building something that you wanted to, its so different ! well done and ignore any negative comments you never know how these projects will turn out, it may have been plain sailing and worked unbelievably well out of the box but that would be just boring. great work
Yes, DCT aftermarket is a difficult road but at least you tried and with projects that should be part of the reason for doing a project in the first place.
@@allanhumphries6941 sry but working out of the box is much more satisfying, than always scaring to either experience a lock-up with everything that follows or broken parts on transmission or even engineside. Actually this "controller" once was advertised as "at least as good as oem". This it actually isnt. And despite the fear this big need of tuning/dialing in and so on is what makes it a POS because it burns money in big amounts.
@@rosskidd7243 It's an old car, not much of electronics to begin with and DCT has standalone aftermarket controllers. DCT is just a "robotized" manual transmission so it's easy to adapt to anything. There's more and more stuff you can do with a DCT.
Great engineering exercise. What I would like is a stock interior and ride quality of the stock M5 with the DCT. Very nice project. I have also read/ heard the conversion was impossible. Bravo!
Somehow a 4 door with a rear seat delete and a rollcage just feels wrong. You get a larger and heavier vehicle than a 2 doored alternative with shorter wheelbase and strip it out to make it light and put aerokit on it to make it faster to drive it with 1 or 2 people. Might as well just buy a 2 doored alternative that is a lot lighter. What I love about the caged Apex M3 is that it has 4 seats, still keeps the cars ethos.
Nah bro he is wrong, the car ain't slow fam 😅 The car is very very quick for a E39 M5! 200kg out of it like 😬 It will be a beast once the proper ECU for it is installed, can't wait to see it again!
Couldn't give a monkey's about the 'slow' shifts. The work which must have gone into this is really impressive, not to mention the way it sounds, which is AWESOME! Great work.
This reminded me there is a an M3 E46 with the V10 from the E60, mated with a DCT. If only it would visit the Ring and you could have a ride / drive in it..
@@n.shiina8798 I was referring to the one tested by Auto top NL ruclips.net/video/fHPAUnz68XQ/видео.html&ab_channel=AutoTopNL . Driftworks' one is in the process of getting a crazy exhaust at the moment..that is going to be a nice build as well when completed.
Probably I didn't hear it, if they said that is with HTG. I'va just have watched in the past few months a lot of videos with HTG with both 8hp and DTC, and the results looked very good. Shift were like sequential.
Yes, I saw that it is not shifting as it should be, and that's why I mentioned those two. Because, as I said in the last couple of months I've seen a lot of videos with them with very brutal results. I've just haven't heart that they use HTG on this car. I suppose that with some more tune of the tcu/gcu, that one will be shifting much better. After all swaps like that are not just plug and play solutions, and many times requires a lot of head baning until all works as expected.
Very cool car, but it seems like a bit of a gimmick. A well sorted E39 M5 with weight reduction and the stock manual transmission would be a much better car overall in my opinion. Loving your content Misha!
So many people in the comments too eager to have their opinion’s heard, all saying the same thing instead of watching to the end of the video. 😂 Judgmental people… so many!!!!
What’s the black car with the wing directly in front at the end of the video around 14:09? A Radical, or an Ultima? Something from England I assume with the yellow plates.
That is not always true. There are some s62 examples who do more then 400hp or just on point. It is Always some good amount of the status of maintenance and so on...the racing version of the s62 is capable of 650hp...I dont think the engine is the problem here or better i pretty exactly know the owner and his journey....
Loving Adrien's wide screen slow mo shots great improvment to your chanel Misha👍👍 and great work Adrien😁 hopefully I spelled your name right lol ...i used french spelling fyi
Interesting Lap. His corner entry was a bit wide in a few sections, the car was always in the power band, but it didn't sound like iit gave a two shits, reminded me of a truck engine. I feel like with the proper gear box settings he can drive it a be more aggressive and will be able to put a quicker lap down, i dont feel like he maximized the braking zones, but i wasn't driving, can't feel what the brake is doing.
I Always take it a bit easier with a passenger onboard, it’s not just my life if something goes wrong. Misha has been in enough crashes as a passenger and i do T want to add to that tally. I respect his trust and confidence in getting in my car and for that very reason I wasn’t going as quick as I would if I was on my own.
Maybe its just from viewing and inside the car its different,.. but for me it seems like the combination of engine and gearbox ist not so good. But the car itself is mega!
I noticed that on the downshifts the gearbox seems slow and doesn’t respond that fast. Makes me think if it was worth it swapping to DCT. Definitely a cool car though, if the owner loves it then fair play do what makes you happy brother!💪
@@fohatadridialing it in without risking the crappy gcu to lock up inbetween shifts or loose all gears, this was one of the only kinda stabel/consiatent maps they came up with. Actually all people i know that git bought by barteks false promises have left the dct train...or at least headed for maxxecu or cantcu
Expected it to be quite a bit faster, especially in a straight line, given the power and being stripped of so much. Cars with less power hit higher speeds at many sections. Hopefully the owner finds someone who can put it all together to works smoothly and in synch and putting all the power down.
Sure you actually listened to what was said in the video? It's a dct out of an M4 and the owner said at the end that there's still a lot of work to be done with the gearbox ECU.
Just a tip, but I'd like the picture on the video to Only be the M5, I think the video would do better. Too much for my little phone screen to see what's going on :(
Ha @Misha, ik zie op jullie website geen taxi ritten meer staan? Of kijk ik niet goed? Enkel het zelf rijden, helaas durf ik het risico op schade niet te nemen, vandaar de vraag… Fijne dag
Wow. And they can't put DCT in E60 still. What a shame.. PS Yeah, I heard about Gintani and England' shop, but where's results? Where's videos? Where's races?
@@romanjacobs1794 as I understand the guys in the US decided not to pursue marketing the conversion. So there are no finished projects or marketing videos.
Using the standard MSS52 DME at the moment. Unfortunately it doesn’t allow for torque cut via canbus, it’s done via rudimentary logic control instead. It’ll be much crisper and smoother with Maxxecu control 👍
Never understod why people want to have dct on classic hooligans cars. Just no sence. m5e39 has its charme to be at manual. Just explain this guy, this will never be track king, thi is the best muscle car
The gearbox controller has its issues which is part of the reason for the slow shifts. It functions as a proof of concept as I was told on numerous occasions that “it’s impossible to do, you won’t be able to do that”.
The MSS52 DME is also unable to deal with torque cut over Canbus to allow a snappy fast gear change. To work round this issue, there is a hard ignition cut on gear change (which is why it stalls outside Devils Diner after the lap due to upshift selected by accident) to allow mechanical sympathy on both engine and gearbox.
The engine and gearbox will be controlled by Maxxecu when the next major update to the setup is done.
There’ll also be some other major changes too, but that’s for a future video.
If I was to go back to 2019 when I started this project knowing what I do now, I’d of not bothered wasting the money and left the 420G box in instead. It’s been enjoyable, but financially a mistake but I don’t regret it as it’s opened up a whole different game of track enjoyment.
Cheers to Misha for jumping in as it was seeing him in an E36 with DCT conversion around 4 years ago that inspired me to do the project - zero regrets on that front 🫡🥳
brilliant for sticking with it and building something that you wanted to, its so different ! well done and ignore any negative comments you never know how these projects will turn out, it may have been plain sailing and worked unbelievably well out of the box but that would be just boring. great work
better to get 8hp, a lot simpler
Yes, DCT aftermarket is a difficult road but at least you tried and with projects that should be part of the reason for doing a project in the first place.
make a conversion / swap kit once you have it all sorted out and im sure many people will be interested in buying….
@@allanhumphries6941 sry but working out of the box is much more satisfying, than always scaring to either experience a lock-up with everything that follows or broken parts on transmission or even engineside. Actually this "controller" once was advertised as "at least as good as oem". This it actually isnt. And despite the fear this big need of tuning/dialing in and so on is what makes it a POS because it burns money in big amounts.
They look like pretty slow and rough shifts, I hope the owner will be able to dial it in a bit better still. But a very impressive conversion!
Try watching it to the end where he explains what he will do.
He says at the end 'The gearbox controller is a piece of sh*t, I'm waiting for max ecu to finish doing their f series control'
@@1993jtry Lamik tcu controler
Its sounds likes Mw m3 gtr
@@paweltodudek No worky with DCT
The explanation about the gearbox issue was a good one because the entire lap i was like whatsup with that thing 🤔😉😎
She sounds good, and as the tires warm up, rock solid. Excellent build.
I may be a 70's kid but I still find this the best looking M5 with the angel eyes. Postercar.
That must have been an absolute nightmare to get working properly
why'?
@@TopiT23 Because the gearbox and car are will be extremely different electronically. Not to mention mounting then together.
@@rosskidd7243 they do sell kitts for almost every bmw out there the be fitted with that gearbox
@@TopiT23 your right. Just a manual transmission with a hydrolic shifter thats electronically controled
@@rosskidd7243 It's an old car, not much of electronics to begin with and DCT has standalone aftermarket controllers. DCT is just a "robotized" manual transmission so it's easy to adapt to anything. There's more and more stuff you can do with a DCT.
Transmission and gear changes might be slow from my point but its sounds remembered me Nfs most wanted m3 gtr
Perfect video
I saw DCT E39 and said "Wait, what?" too.
Great engineering exercise. What I would like is a stock interior and ride quality of the stock M5 with the DCT. Very nice project. I have also read/ heard the conversion was impossible. Bravo!
Those look like some jerky shifts, needs that upgrade
absolut! so slow!
You guys watch to the end.
Bro. my grandma can shift more smoothly
probably the original gearbox computer :)
@@JT-ry5ei Do you know what humor means? Jeez
Oh my that red Porsche at the beginning was such a treat 😍
Somehow a 4 door with a rear seat delete and a rollcage just feels wrong. You get a larger and heavier vehicle than a 2 doored alternative with shorter wheelbase and strip it out to make it light and put aerokit on it to make it faster to drive it with 1 or 2 people. Might as well just buy a 2 doored alternative that is a lot lighter. What I love about the caged Apex M3 is that it has 4 seats, still keeps the cars ethos.
HTG really invested some time to make a DCT gearbox shift like the awesome Smart Fortwo gearbox, you gotta leave them that🎉
Only Lamik tcu comtrollers
at first i thought it was an SMG 1 conversion
Nah bro he is wrong, the car ain't slow fam 😅
The car is very very quick for a E39 M5!
200kg out of it like 😬
It will be a beast once the proper ECU for it is installed, can't wait to see it again!
Changes and sounds like the old SMG Box, Which everybody hated.
Couldn't give a monkey's about the 'slow' shifts. The work which must have gone into this is really impressive, not to mention the way it sounds, which is AWESOME! Great work.
This reminded me there is a an M3 E46 with the V10 from the E60, mated with a DCT. If only it would visit the Ring and you could have a ride / drive in it..
are we talking Phil Morrison's E46 from Driftworks?
@@n.shiina8798 I was referring to the one tested by Auto top NL ruclips.net/video/fHPAUnz68XQ/видео.html&ab_channel=AutoTopNL . Driftworks' one is in the process of getting a crazy exhaust at the moment..that is going to be a nice build as well when completed.
@@n.shiina8798 no his is manual.
@@randomsurfer3963 that one is also getting rid of the HTG and is putting in a solution from Howell Engineering.
When I see that, I'd rather keep my M5 E39 in stock with manual.
It's still slow, even after this conversion, but in stock it's at least useful 😀
Great job....keep it up
From Argentina...
Very surprised how slow the up shifts are. Seems like a lot of money spent the just to have the same speed as a torque converter.
Very surprised you did not watch to the end where he discusses these things ;)
You have never driven an auto e39 then.
Misha certainly got content value from the circuit days track days lol
There are 2 very popular external GCU options lately for 8hp and the DTC. HTG and Turbolamik, with both the results look insane.
You meant can tcu...with htg gcu it just is crap as it is now because it has a htg gcu.
This car has the HTG, it's just bad and a POS, you can't compare it to Turbolamik
Probably I didn't hear it, if they said that is with HTG. I'va just have watched in the past few months a lot of videos with HTG with both 8hp and DTC, and the results looked very good. Shift were like sequential.
@@s.argirov if you watch the videos carefully you see that there are some harsh shifts(unintentional) and sometimes even some lock-ups.
Yes, I saw that it is not shifting as it should be, and that's why I mentioned those two. Because, as I said in the last couple of months I've seen a lot of videos with them with very brutal results. I've just haven't heart that they use HTG on this car. I suppose that with some more tune of the tcu/gcu, that one will be shifting much better. After all swaps like that are not just plug and play solutions, and many times requires a lot of head baning until all works as expected.
Very cool car, but it seems like a bit of a gimmick. A well sorted E39 M5 with weight reduction and the stock manual transmission would be a much better car overall in my opinion. Loving your content Misha!
You have to actually finish the video and here him talk about the trans
So many people in the comments too eager to have their opinion’s heard, all saying the same thing instead of watching to the end of the video. 😂 Judgmental people… so many!!!!
What’s the black car with the wing directly in front at the end of the video around 14:09? A Radical, or an Ultima? Something from England I assume with the yellow plates.
Ultima!
Did well managing the weight of car! Lovely pace too.
The E39 V8 normally makes around 370 horsepower instead of 400. As seen on the Halle77 videos. That might make it feel 'slow'.
That is not always true. There are some s62 examples who do more then 400hp or just on point. It is Always some good amount of the status of maintenance and so on...the racing version of the s62 is capable of 650hp...I dont think the engine is the problem here or better i pretty exactly know the owner and his journey....
People seem think swapping the DCT and make it work the same way as stock is easy work
You are correct, it´s alot harder than people think.
Same Geoff Steele Racing rear wing as me! But a bit more in proportion on this car 😂
Not sure how they converted the DCT into the E39 but it seems it needs some refinement on upshifts, it now looks very clunky and SMG'ish?
No, watch to the end.
Love the sound........and the view......THX!!!!!
Loving Adrien's wide screen slow mo shots great improvment to your chanel Misha👍👍 and great work Adrien😁 hopefully I spelled your name right lol ...i used french spelling fyi
Interesting Lap. His corner entry was a bit wide in a few sections, the car was always in the power band, but it didn't sound like iit gave a two shits, reminded me of a truck engine. I feel like with the proper gear box settings he can drive it a be more aggressive and will be able to put a quicker lap down, i dont feel like he maximized the braking zones, but i wasn't driving, can't feel what the brake is doing.
I Always take it a bit easier with a passenger onboard, it’s not just my life if something goes wrong. Misha has been in enough crashes as a passenger and i do T want to add to that tally. I respect his trust and confidence in getting in my car and for that very reason I wasn’t going as quick as I would if I was on my own.
@@WestinghouseProductions respect
mmm, the e39 m5, imo the best m5 ever made and definitely the best lookin bmw
Please tell me you're having a go in that Ultima at 13:30 :D
That gear change lag is annoying
Maybe its just from viewing and inside the car its different,.. but for me it seems like the combination of engine and gearbox ist not so good.
But the car itself is mega!
E39 M5 🤩👌
Meestal is de swap andersom, maar voor circuit gebruik snap ik dit wel, nu nog de software op orde krijgen.
Wow, I've never seen someone stall an auto 😂 this build is gonna be insane
I noticed that on the downshifts the gearbox seems slow and doesn’t respond that fast. Makes me think if it was worth it swapping to DCT. Definitely a cool car though, if the owner loves it then fair play do what makes you happy brother!💪
It's just poor tune on the TCU. If configured properly, it's faster than M4 stock TCU tune.
@@fohatadri takes time to dial in. I’m all for manuals but dct on these older M cars make a lot of sense especially for track specific builds.
@@fohatadridialing it in without risking the crappy gcu to lock up inbetween shifts or loose all gears, this was one of the only kinda stabel/consiatent maps they came up with. Actually all people i know that git bought by barteks false promises have left the dct train...or at least headed for maxxecu or cantcu
Alex Roy likes this (probably)
still smooth riding :D not exteme on loudnes just smooth nice
lets see the updated version at the end of the year ?
Expected it to be quite a bit faster, especially in a straight line, given the power and being stripped of so much. Cars with less power hit higher speeds at many sections. Hopefully the owner finds someone who can put it all together to works smoothly and in synch and putting all the power down.
defenetly needs more tuning. cant quite get behind this project cuz in the end you could just get a e92 m3 and dont molest this e39...
The best 🏁💙
This reminds me of some E30 M50 turbo with the E92 DCT awd.
Love you Misha #noHomo
All those modifications to get a racecar but it felt like a sunday cruiser 😅
Uploaded at the perfect moment
Full roll cage, interior delete, stand-alone ECU, race seats, DCT gearbox swap and the owner says, “it’s not really a track car…” 😂😂
Too much wing and that DCT needs more revs for a faster and smother shift - or needs some serious re-calbration to suit the E39.
Is it even worth swapping to DCT and still shifting like an SMG? Might as well leave it as a manual or change it to a sequential instead
Watch the video to the end.
Yes, yes and Yes!!!!
what the hell i was just looking if this exited or not and this pops up
What's the point of the DCT if it's shifting that slow? Should've just tried to swap in a ZF 8 speed auto.
E39 very beautiful car
Meanwhile German TÜV about changing from Manual gearbox to automatic (i know it called differently) : NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN !!!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
Actually no. The kind of gearbox is not important to get TÜV. Its the overall gearing and honestly the dct isnt too far off the 420g...
works like an SMG more than a DCT
Is this car aligned properly? It looked and sounded wrong to me..
Um.. Yes please 🔥🔥🔥
First i was like why he is going so slow and then i looked the spedo and it was 195 damn that car is solid.
Definately an E39 M5 CS!
Sure it’s not the SMG box…? ;)
Sure you actually listened to what was said in the video? It's a dct out of an M4 and the owner said at the end that there's still a lot of work to be done with the gearbox ECU.
@@bunter6 Irony/humor is not always easy. I heard very well what they said.
@@timessix8434 Im sure your dumbass can make it shift faster ?
only one with the dct ever, i imagine its the e92 m3 gearbox
Just a tip, but I'd like the picture on the video to Only be the M5, I think the video would do better. Too much for my little phone screen to see what's going on :(
It doesn't shift very smoothly, does it?
Nope. The gearbox controller is crap. It’ll be much crisper and snappier once I install Maxxecu control 👍
Impressive how it hides its speed on video Misha...did the ride feel effortless?
Good . 😂👍😎 no bad . Like Legendar model E39 BMW coupe M5
sick car!
Миша, почему мне показалось, что я его на красном гольфике обгоню?)
Ha @Misha, ik zie op jullie website geen taxi ritten meer staan? Of kijk ik niet goed? Enkel het zelf rijden, helaas durf ik het risico op schade niet te nemen, vandaar de vraag…
Fijne dag
I would go for 8hp70 with turbo lamik controller
Wow.
And they can't put DCT in E60 still. What a shame..
PS
Yeah, I heard about Gintani and England' shop, but where's results? Where's videos? Where's races?
They just didn´t want to market it. But now you have the Howell Engineering solution.
@@ThordurMagnusson I heard about Howell, that's why I wrote about England - but where's finished projects, where's results? Where's videos?
@@romanjacobs1794 as I understand the guys in the US decided not to pursue marketing the conversion. So there are no finished projects or marketing videos.
@@ThordurMagnusson that's why it's a shame and tragedy for e60 enthusiasts
@@romanjacobs1794 we should see some customer cars soon with the Howell Engineering solution
.
Why he didn't use 8hp?
Is that the e60 m5 smg🤔🧐
Them down shifts take like forever and a week to change
what about an M3 e46 with dct and a e60 M5 V10?.... i am waiting
@@ThordurMagnusson i know that they exsist, but i wanna see Misha in one on the green hell 🥰
Is the speedo off or was he just taking it easy in corners?
Looks like an SMG vs a DCT. Sweet ride though for sure.
How can it look like an smg 😂😂
Hmm looks slow but still an amazing lap and a wonderful build props to the owner
next time go with ZF 8-speed transmission
It was like him against the Car.
Rev it 7000!!!!
Wow 🤩
I wish the front view was larger. 👍
Good video
commenting before watching on how good the video is? 🤣
🤘💯 very nice
Yeah, HTG life 😂 you know for sure it will be an awful day at your life when driving something with that controller
E39 and E46 era //M cars have a stunning profile and stance to match. That M5 though does make current gen M3s look so HUUUGE
Not so sure about the dct 🤨
I think he needs a lot of better tires
Any specific reason to why he took that path through adenauer forst?
This BMW E39 is great but it looks like is from GTA 5
Wow
i love the e39 m5, and i also love modified cars, but this is just too much
you sure it's a dct and not a easytronic? :))
sadly the engine cant follow the gearbox. he can try an injectionnupgrade, then it wil shift way beter.
Using the standard MSS52 DME at the moment. Unfortunately it doesn’t allow for torque cut via canbus, it’s done via rudimentary logic control instead. It’ll be much crisper and smoother with Maxxecu control 👍
@@WestinghouseProductions Im amazed at your patience dealing with these apsolute dumbasses on the internet.
Why does this seem to be soooo slow in 4K? The video just skips and jumps all over. Very tough to enjoy.
No issues here, weird.
Never understod why people want to have dct on classic hooligans cars. Just no sence. m5e39 has its charme to be at manual.
Just explain this guy, this will never be track king, thi is the best muscle car
Never understood people who barely know english.
@@hexagonosaurus5848 maybe im just not english, american? And have no need to know it more than i can. You didnt think?