Alex O’Connor CALLS OUT Ken Ham, Ken Responds
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- In this video, Ken Ham responds to Alex O’Connor’s latest video, where he calls out Ken Ham and asks a number of questions about the Christian worldview. Alex O’Connor is a well-known atheist and evolutionist.
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This was the worst response video I’ve seen
Nah, I'd say the Colleen Ballinger response video was worse than this.
Though, Ken's video here *is* laughable at its best, and disappointing at its worst.
Interesting responses. I was just thinking how much I enjoyed hearing each person’s ideas without being interrupted by their “opponent” or a moderator.
Alex: the serpent was an example of evil in the world before the sin of man.
Ken: the serpent wasnt evil, satan was just using the serpent.
Me: how does that rebut Alex's point? Whether the serpent or satan were evil, either one is an example of evil in the world before the sin of man.
Exactly. If a human built a garden, and they saw an invasive species invade the garden, they would try to remove it immediately - so perhaps we are not in gods image since we generally care about what we create.
Evil being in the world before sin of man does not prove atheists right in one way or another, though. The bible maintains its credibility and is the utmost best explanation for why evil is so pervasive in the world (due to humans, that explanation still remain because humans disobeyed God's wisdom in thinking we could be our own gods), and Christ offers the best solution to evil.
Atheism offers nothing in terms of hope, faith, meaning, etc. Atheism encourage people to just look at each other as random animals, some who are lucky to live healthy and rich while others die in the gutter, poor and disabled. But that's just how it is.
Atheism upholds science with a firm hand, yet science can not explain everything. Science does not explain reasoning, love, Moral judgments, aesthetic judgments, decisions about applications of science, and conclusions about the supernatural are outside the realm of science.
@@Taygon094 the Biblical explanation for why evil is pervasive is not the "utmost best." Frankly, it's nonsensical; god creates everything according to his plan, then blames others for the bad parts.
The desire for some cosmic meaning to life is the whole reason religion exists. But, if there is no cosmic meaning, then theists derive their hope and meaning the same way atheists do: they create it themselves.
If you believe that life without a god results in callous disregard for the well-being of others, that says more about you than atheists. If you need god to keep you from being a predator, let's hope you never lose your faith.
I'm ok with science not being able to explain everything. I'd rather say I don't know something than make up an answer based on what I imagine god's answer would be.
It's funny that you can't think about things as whole when Satan temps people you think he is just standing in front of them waving his hands in there faces no he sends his demons to do it hence the snake
@@ashayarifai6819 That’s not the point. Doesn’t matter if it’s the snake or satan manipulating the snake, evil already existed in the garden.
Honestly? I’m watching this as an agnostic wondering how you lot think these are good rebuttals…
If you're genuinely wondering how Ham's response means anything, the truth is that as people we struggle to see beyond our own viewpoints, outside the sphere of our own experience, beneath what we suppose to be our own moral foundation. What Ham is trying to do is explain how the Bible shows us that our perspective is limited, while God's is not. Starting with the assumption that God created everything we understand to exist and that He is good as defined in the Bible, Ham's answers make sense. But if you are unwilling to accept those two assumptions, it all just sounds senseless. Basically, we humans have to admit that we're so messed up that we don't know which way is up, and that only God can set us straight. The entire Gospel of John is Jesus showing us how He is the way for us to have the life that Adam lost when he ate the fruit in the garden. God is not some robot in the sky, benevolent or otherwise. He's the most personal Person you could ever meet. The Bible is God speaking to us, but we have to be willing to listen and learn about Him before we can relate to Him.
@@redpen01Its not from a frame of ignorance, in all arguments its normal for people to argue their pisition as if it was true to show why incosistencies dont work. That part is very comprehendible, but when ken ham twice gives to idks to complete contradictions to the worldview and claims hes making 1:45 10:15 you dont have tk believe in god to know that this is a non answer. There WAS evil before the fall as accepted by ken with the devil and theres no difference between originial sin and normal sin that ken ham brings up that makes it acceptable to punish us for it. These are just undeniably bad reponses
There not.
The rebuttals leave much to be desired. Rather than tackle the hard questions, Mr. Ham often chooses to use circular logic to give a traditional Christian response. Mr. Ham - it's OK to say " I don't know the answer to that" - you dig yourself into so many holes because of your desire to be an apologist for the faith.
@@clmkc5393
Ham is saying that we have to trust God in matters beyond our understanding. This is thinking outside the box of our own brains, not circular reasoning. The entire problem of evil comes down to this. Evil defined Biblically is not an active force of its own but simply disobedience to God. Satan is a force for evil by his own choice to rebel against God. This is why I said before that we must be willing to listen to God, or we will not be able to relate to Him. Everyone who refuses to accept what God says on His own terms cannot understand Him.
If the God of the Bible is real, He literally made us, owns us, and it's beyond ridiculous to reject Him based on any criteria other than His own. If a person chooses not to make a genuine effort to understand God's definitions, there can be no valid discussion of the Biblical account.
This is the operative problem in this discussion. Alex O'Connor and many of the snipers in the comments here are either willfully ignorant of how God defines reality or are actively deceptive in their arguments. The amount of trouble O'Connor takes to disprove the Bible makes me wonder.
I assume that you care whether God is real or not since you are watching videos arguing that topic. Why not take a serious look at what He says in the Bible for yourself? You don't have to take anyone else's word for what it says or means. Don't like what Ham says? Check the source instead.
We have what's called "The blessed hope". It's bizarre that the blessed hope for the atheist is nothing, with exception to the warning of judgement which causes a lifelong pursuit to continually convince yourself that you have nothing to worry about.
That's the tactic of all cultists, isn't it? Fearmongering to ensnare new members for the cult.
@@Alien1375 you dont know what a cult is do you?
You always are worrying about the “after life” grow up
@@Legend-mg2ry it's eternal, definitely worth thinking about.
Right! If Christians are wrong about Christ's salvation, and we just cease to exist, no harm no foul. If the atheist is wrong they're in big trouble.
Well argued Ken, I hope your kind words hit home. (May God save the atheists!) 🙂
_(May God save the atheists!)_
Don't worry, I'm sure Odin's hard at work on it!
@@cardcounter21 I'm only one minute in, and Ken has it nailed already, I think I'm gonna witness some real stupid here, as there is another fifteen minutes to go.
Amen
@@JustaNaughtyBoyI see you comment on most comments. Are you wanting us to help confirm your unbelief? You sure care a lot for someone who supposedly doesn’t believe in a God ( spoiler alert, you know there is a God and insist on lying).
@@davidpiot8098 I am.
I just love this back and forth and I hope you do more than just this one.
Rebuttals to major points:
1. If logic evolved by chance, how can we be confident in it?
- through our logic, we are able to make observably true predictions on the world around us
- we have evidence for other traits evolving through random selection (camouflage, for example), and intelligence is also a trait that has been shown to evolve through modern generations of species (dolphins, whales, some birds)
2. God didn’t make an evil snake, he made angels, one of which became evil and then turned into a snake.
- do I need to respond to this?
- ultimately, god made something with the propensity to become evil, thus he introduced evil into the world
3. Alex is entering this argument with a bias against Christianity, thus his points are less valid
- Alex was once a devout Christian, he studied religion, he understands the faith well and through his own reasoning has arrived at this conclusion starting from a point of bias in the opposite direction
- any argument is subject to objections and analysis, whether or not these arguments are able to overcome and disprove these objections determines their strength
4. You ignore and eventually agree with his point that pain already existed, thus suffering already was existing and it was not introduced by sin.
5. Die vs surely die
- if this translation issue is true, then this point is valid
6. Potential vs propensity
- they had the potential to sin, and when Adam disobeys, he shows that he has the propensity to disobey God. If the act of disobeying results in Adam taking on a sinful nature, and Adam has a propensity to disobey, than he had a propensity to sin. Classic Hypothetical Syllogism.
This is 1/3 through the video, to not make this comment to long I will stop here.
Edit: I was going to stop here, but that point on clothing and how we are essentially mammals was so stupid to me that I feel the need to respond.
We wear clothes because thousands of years ago, cavemen humans found that wearing animal skins was actually really warm, and thus we evolved a habit of feeling “normal” while wearing clothes.
to me, it feels like he doesn’t even think about the arguments from the other perspective, and is solely trying to come up with the most absurd questions about evolution.
Furthermore, on the point of punishing descendants:
He states that original sin is different from specific sins, so the greater breadth of the punishment is justified.
By its name, original sin is the first sin. It is no different from any other sin, it just happens to be the first disobedience from god. This in no way justifies its punishment extending beyond the scope of the one who committed this sin. To write it off as “special, therefore it deserves more people to be punished” directly contradicts what was said in the part of the Bible cited by Alex and is logically inconsistent. Furthermore, we are not the same as Adam. By saying we are the same species, we deserve the same punishment is completely absurd. It is essentially the same as saying if one man commits murder, his entire family deserves life in prison because they are essentially the same person.
Why do we oppose this, and really you do believe in god.
What?
At least for myself, I oppose religions such as Christianity because Christians claim a sense of a moral high ground over the rest of humanity. By claiming that everything in the Bible is justified, from the rape to prosecution of homosexuals to all the other horrendous acts declared moral by the Bible, Christians are spreading a disgusting sense of morals to the world. To make matters worse, this is entering the legal system as well. Morality as defined by Christianity is causing certain individuals to edit laws as they deem more Christian, at least in the US- note the removal of freedom over their body from women mainly because the lawmakers believe the single called organism inside of that woman is actually a fully formed spiritual being.
On a different note, yes, I personally do not believe in objective morality. I base morality on what I believe would be most beneficial for others and cause the least suffering.
In conclusion, our viewpoints are not baseless and unjustified without a god and a holy text to back us up, and in certain ways, they are an even stronger moral basis, as they are improbable and adaptable to changing societies. A set in stone Bible, however, will not change, and homosexuality will always be purely evil, no matter how society changes, according to this basis.
It’s our fault that evil is in this world, death point:
What Alex is talking about is death here, not evil. Disregarding that god introduced evil into the world, god did without a doubt introduce death by cursing Adam to certainly die. This clever switching of the words to avoid this argument shows just how strong this argument made by Alex is.
Final point: I just want to point out how stupid it is to say, yea, you really do believe in god. You know he exists, and are just trying to be your own god in opposition to him.
First of all, this argument is entirely circular. This relies on accepting that god does exist and everything in the Bible is true to accept that man moving away from god is an inherited aspect of original sin.
Secondly, it’s incredibly arrogant and patronizing. Not that that weakens this already feeble point, but do you really expect to achieve any positive progression if you are telling people how they really feel?
Third, it is the basis of all acceptable theories to hold under scrutiny. By creating circular references and telling Alex how he really feels, you are demonstrating how feeble your theory truly is, and how you need to justify your theory through things that can only ever be true if that theory is true.
There are certain arguments that have some level of validity for the existence of a creator. This most certainly is not one of them.
I've been following Alex for a while and he is an honest truth-seeker and an amazing intellectual. I think his reasoning is very logical and valid.
Every generation of atheists thinks that they've managed to paint Christianity into a corner -- as if their tiresome arguments haven't been rebutted again and again. Thanks, Ken, for gently challenging this misguided individual.
Every generation of Christians thinks the same, but most of us have never even read the Bible.
@@reijishian2593 God willing, I will have read it from cover to cover for the 30th time at the end of this year, and I hope to read it another 30 times before God's reward. How I pray that all may come to love God's wonderful Word!
Ih the ideas and contents of the book has been painted into a corner, whilst ever there are credulous and gullible Christians believing this stuff there will always be Christians, the same can be said for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Janists, Sikhs, Pagans, and a host of other religions that are headed up by mythical creatures. Christianity is certainly in decline in the US and has now dropped below 50% here in the UK, and unlike the US the UK is supposedly a Christian country with the king being the head of the Church of England. The church receives funding by the UK government. I'm paying for this stuff, thank Christ it is in decline.
@@InMemphisJohn Have you read the Book of Hosea?
@@InMemphisJohn Reading the complete Bible is the #1 reason people aren't believers. The commenter was speaking of believers who follow without reading and knowing what the Bible actually says. When they know what it actually says they abandon it because it is not what it purports to be.
You have to ask, why? Why does it matter so much to these atheists that the bible be wrong? We know why it matters to Christians. We want others to be saved, we want a better world. What do they want? Seems they're fighting for their own religion.
Because you guys use the bible to prove the bible is true, it's circular logic.
Think of it like this.
You believe that there is going to be an afterlife and that people need to believe in Jesus and ask for repentance in order to enter the kingdom of God.
You believe that sharing this information will help the other person.
Well from a non-believer's perspective they act the same way. They want to help you let go of these superstitions and irrational beliefs.
not necessarily@@soostoons1826
@@soostoons1826 Well, if it's the word of God, and if it was supernaturally authored, it IS true. If it contains hundreds of FULFILLED prophecies, it IS true. If it has changed the lives of MORE people than ANY other book, EVER, it IS true. The Bible is the best-selling book _of all time!_ Jesus Christ is the most famous, influential person ever to have existed. So much so that we mark time by His birth! Our week is seven days BECAUSE God set it that way. Atheists simply refuse to believe THE truth.
indeed atheism offers nothing of value. even they know
How can you reject something that has never been proven to exist??
you aren't proven to exist. (am I in a simulation?)
@@Golfinthefamily The problem I have with being placed in a simulation,
is the ones that are running it are total psychopaths! look at what they
have manipulated some of us to do, like rape little children to death?
Some humans believe that a loving god lets Satin do this, what's the
difference?
One can reject a concept, which the many proposed gods are merely concepts. I do agree, I find it amusing when theists tell atheists, or believers of a different god, that their particular god is being rejected, or as they often like to assert "hated".
@@briannewton3535 without God, there wouldn't be atheists ;) It is abundantly clear and consistent with everything we have observed that we have a creator.
Certainly not everyone who is atheist has a walking anger against God when discussing him. However, often you run into three different scenarios as to why they reject God.
1. They want to be God themselves.
2. They love their sin.
3. They have either done something terrible to someone or had something terribly done to them that has made them feel like it is impossible to be restored, forgiven or accepted.
@@Golfinthefamily Without some superstitious humans dreaming up the concept
of god/gods, THEN THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY ATHEISTS, IN THAT SENARIO.
The comment, "We have observed a creator" only in your dreams I would say.
Just be honest we do not know how this universe came into being.
So your claim "there is a god" now the burden of proof is on you,
good luck, god has never been proven, so you use the faith system.
The three examples you give of why atheists exist are a resounding "NO"
it's purely that I have not seen one bit of evidence of a "god", period.
So sad. So young. So wrong.😢
Ken ain't young any more, but deffo sooo wrong 😂
Ken old AF, but definitely wrong. It's sad that he has dedicated his life to making others wrong as well. Sad old man.
Ken is either the most deceptive human or the most deluded.
The mental contortions he has to go through to bend these ancient myths to anything historically accurate is almost as amazing as the fact he got so many idiots to invest in his arc!
There is no point refuting all the garbage claims Ken makes, it would take too long. Nevertheless it’s been done time and time again by many people and others still fund him. Bizarre.
If you hit the delete the button on all of modern religious texts and all of their pre-cursors and the various stories that were contorted into what we now have AND all the scientific journals and evidence gathered to date… religious beliefs would die and scientifically proven facts would return because one is make believe and one is our literal and proven understanding of the universe.
As a Christian who loves acknowledging the holes in everyone's confidence in their own epistemology, I'd just like to say that the idea of deleting everything we know might not necessarily rebuild science, since the founders of the scientific method were theists who thought that since the world was intelligently built, it would be able to be understood intelligently. That's logical. If humans lost everything and viewed the world, and maybe built the theory that the universe and life is completely random and absurd, I'm not sure they would bother studying it.
@@Codfish215sure, that is absurd. Good thing no scientist claims it.
Non religious atheist ponders religiously exterminating opposing views by citing divine texts (he calls them soyentific journals)
@@Codfish215 But getting rid of the scientific journals and evidence is all the commenter specified. They didn't say to get rid of the scientific method and the ideological framework.
@@Codfish215 Theism controlled the world at the time. Scientists were ostracised, burnt at the stake and exiled for their views. Don't try to pretend that religion facilitated science, it held science back for centuries.
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
Voltaire
As a born and raised man of 56 years from my Blue Grass State of Kentucky, I am so glad and honored that you chose us to call your new home. Welcome Ken ❤
Australia says you can keep him .😅😂😂
@@pigdog1971 Ken is simply a grifter, and I gotta say whilst there are credulous and gullible Christians around to 'buy' this rubbish like an ark attraction, that put in an insurance claim for flood damage, for what amounted to 'an act of God' Ken will move to where the crazy is.
@@pigdog1971 thats a good one
Australia truly dodged a bullet there. Keep the Creationist loons in the US, they seem to have a penchant for unrealistic and irrational vievpoints when it comes to magical thinking.
Ham is without doubt, one of the greatest exponents of the ‘word salad’ of our times. And nothing more.
The amount of projection Ken has on display here is incredible. Claims that the reason Alex doesn’t understand is that he is presupposing the bible isn’t true, not that Ken himself is presupposing it *is* true.
He then goes on to both misunderstand and misrepresent Alex’s questions so that he can give answers his audiences is comfortable with.
*Alex:* “the doctrine of original sin usually contains some idea that *human beings today* inherit a sinful state, or something like a propensity towards sinning.”
*Ken:* Alex claims that Adam and Eve had the propensity to sin but that is not correct. Adam and Eve had the potential to sin but not the propensity.
I don’t need to refute Ken’s lacklustre response since it didn’t address Alex’s comment.
But hey why not?
1. How can Adam and Eve sin *before* gaining the knowledge of good and evil? In order for their disobedience to be sinful they would have to understand that disobedience is wrong.
2. What is the difference between a propensity to sin and a potential to sin, when Adam and Eve fell into sin with the very first command. Was it bad luck? Or bad design?
Ken doesn't actually address Alex's arguments, because Alex is right. Even if Satan is using the serpent, Satan is effectively holding sway over what happens in the Garden of Eden. How is creation "good" in that regard? Ken never answers that question.
Ken doesn't address Alex's argument that pain existed before the fall. Therefore, suffering existed before the fall. Instead of answering the question, he simply comments about how Adam and Eve felt shame after the fall. That's not an answer.
Alex doesn't mock the bible. He simply points out where it is wrong.
Simply pointing out Bible is wrong is not actually a thing.
Why would he know what's wrong? What gives him and you authority to decide what is right or wrong?
The serpent/ satan didn't have any authority on earth before the fall but was trying to lure Eve to go against God's command. She had a choice, a free will, but she disobeyed God. So did Adam.
Adam and Eve were created to be immortal so they couldn't get sick and weren't depressed or similar things. But they were probably capable of feeling physical pain, for example when they hit something. Childbirth maybe would have hurt very little and there would be no risk of miscarriage or disease. But now there is so much pain and risk in pregnancy and disease because of the original sin.
That’s a great question!
The issue Alex has is he says Evil. Evil DIDN’T exist in the pre-fallen world. But free choice did and the use of free choice was able to introduce Evil that Wasn’t there prior.
Sin only arrived when free will was exercised to disobey.
So Satan wasn't evil until Adam ate the apple?
@@somerandom3247 This is what happens when you don’t understand the Bible and attack people for it. He was Lucifer and he was perfect in heaven but just like Adam and Eve because of his free will and pride he tried to overthrow God and sinned. Then Adam and Eve happened and now satan tricked Eve into sinning with her free will. Did you want God to make us robots with no free will. Free will opens the possibility of evil and
@@somerandom3247
Satan fell in heaven. He is a fallen heavenly being, but in the earth there was nothing made that was evil.
@@viccigates3756 Satan didn't go down to heaven in some form to make the serpent deceive Eve?
@@Froggo9000 logic doesn't work on these folks. don't waste your time.
Great Job Ken! You nailed it on the multiplication of suffering.
Thank you for your persistent defense of the Christian faith Mr. Ham. May God bless you tremendously! 🙏
He's defending his need of a psychological comfort, so by refusing logic and reason he desperately cling to the dreamy fairy tale of God creator whose only purpose and aim is to be worshipped and in return he gives his followers this fabled eternal life in heaven
Watching Ken logic, is like watching a dog chase its tail. What an absolute wetnap.
Are you using monkey logic for that one?
@@therougesage7466 Well I prefer to say ape logic, since we never descended from monkeys; But how could you know that when everything you know about evolution is fed to you by con artists that believe in talking snakes, and you slurp it up like a pig at a buffet.
@@cvanunengood one 👍
@lovingdutchfootball Nonsense. Imaginary friends are not a requirement for reason or logic. If it were required, however, then I need only to make up a better god than yours, and now my foundation for all reason and logic trumps yours. You see how silly that sounds now?
@cvanunen except you don't have a foundation for reasoning. if your computer evolved through a series of random and unguided accidents, would you trust it to give you accurate results? What about your brain? 🧠
Man's problem when it comes to God is that we try to solve every "problem" or "issue" that arises when it comes to a perfect creator/being. We want to make sense of everything, which is our HUMAN nature. Once we realize that God's ways, thoughts and actions are not like ours and not all of our questions will be answered nor will everything in God's word be completely understood due to our humanity and limitations, we will at the very least be able to acknowledge God's sovereignty over all things! Yes God, you have your secret things and I'm glad you do because men would pollute them if they weren't secret!
Precisely. Great observation. These scriptures came to mind while watching...
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9 ESV)
Then again, God actually WANTS us to seek Him out and know Him better...
It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. (Proverbs 25:2 ESV)
As to some of the points discussed in the video...
Moses, the same dude who God inspired to write Genesis, also wrote this...
For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. (Psalm 90:4 ESV)
In other words, when Peter wrote the words that we are more familiar with, he's actually quoting Moses...
Dear friends, don’t overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. (2 Peter 3:8 CSB)
How long did Adam live?
So Adam’s life lasted 930 years; then he died. (Genesis 5:5 CSB)
Just under a thousand years, one MILLENNIAL day.
Is this a play with words to try and justify what seems to be an error? No, the opposite. It's something God put in His word intentionally as a discrepancy that those seeking with intent can use to unlock a deeper truth. That thousand years equals one day formula is actually ALL OVER scripture for those who would seek the deeper meaning. All of recorded human history is right there in Genesis 1.
As to evil (Satan) being in the Garden of Eden before sin, who do we think PUT Satan there? God's intent for the entire human race goes WAY deeper than just creating creatures to worship Him because He was... what? Lonely?
Hollywood is fond of Armageddon/End-of-Days movies where some hero tries to prevent all hell from breaking loose and demons invading earth. Nope. The fallen angels and demons have been here all along.
To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of _the mystery hidden for ages_ in God, who created all things, so that through the church the manifold _wisdom of God_ might now _be made known to the rulers and authorities_ in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 3:8-10 ESV)
What "rulers and authorities"? These...
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the _spiritual forces of evil_ in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12 ESV)
Why would God be using _us_ to teach a lesson to fallen angels? Because the whole point of this creation is to fix what happened during the rebellion in Heaven. It's why God favors the humble over the proud, the weak over the strong, those who recognize their own ignorance over those pumped up by their own supposed intelligence. He's teaching a lesson to creatures who thought themselves strong and proud and smart.
So why would God put the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden _knowing_ that Adam and Eve would fail and disobey? Free will? A test? Of course not, God already knew what would happen. That's kind of the whole point.
Or let's consider the oldest book in the Bible, Job. Why in the world did God brag on Job to the devil of all people, and then pretty much dare him to test Job with all those trials and suffering? Was it to teach Job a lesson? No, Job was the teaching tool for the _fallen angels_ watching all this unfold. Of course Job got compensated for being part of all this in the end. But God didn't even bother explaining to Job why it all happened.
They would kill us all, if it wasn't for God's secrets. Just 2 years ago we had a major trial for them and the big majority failed miserably.
@@1WhoConquersThat's you USING God to make sense of your daily reality.
I often find that a great way to acknowledge this truth it acknowledging that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing and will have thoughts and understanding that is beyond our comprehension. You can't put God in a box and equate His understanding with human understanding because God knows everything that is, was, and will be; and He knows the thoughts and actions of every person in this world and will know of our total deprevaity and flaws as Human beings.
Well how do we come to conclusion that Christianity is true if we don’t use our human reasoning? Human reasoning is all we have to determine what’s true/false about our reality. When you read the Bible, you had to use your human reasoning to come to the conclusion that it’s the word of God
Thank you to Mr Ham and AIG crew! It's good to hear from you about how to handle these ideas from others.
All that Ken Ham says and has ever said is basically- “if you don’t believe in my book of ancient fairytales, then you’re just wrong”. That’s all he’s ever been able to come up with.
@patrickwoods2213 that’s odd. I never heard him say that
@@michaelsears6702 Ever heard of paraphrasing? Ever heard of expressing an idea in your own words? Seriously?
I'm basically summarizing everything Ken Ham stands for into one sentence. If you want to know his attitude - then that's it. That he thinks lesser of people who don't accept his views. It's easy to spot.
@patrickwoods2213 well when u put quotes around a sentence then that means u r quoting what they said. So I said I never heard him say that. And in response u insult. And did u know that u actually do the same thing u r accusing Ken of?
@@michaelsears6702 You're telling me that you've seriously never seen quotes around a paraphrase? Happens all the time, and it's hard to believe that every time you see quotations around something, you assume it's literally a verbatim quote. I'm assuming that you've read books before and went to school, right?
"And did u know that u actually do the same thing u r accusing Ken of?"
How? That's complete nonsense. Because I don't believe in ancient books, I can't accuse Ken of being wrong on his interpretation- because as far as I'm concerned, any interpretation of a religious book can be the right one - because no one can prove which one is wrong.
I can however say that he's completely wrong about evolution, because he has been shown by many other scientists that he's wrong - including many people who share his faith. That's what makes him an embarrassment to both America and Australia.
But of course when you invest tens of millions of dollars into brainwashing young children, and being bigoted and hateful towards the LGBTQ community - then you can't backpedal. At that point, you have to keep up the charade - because to admit that you're wrong would be admitting that you've wasted your whole life. And that's an impossible thing to come to grips with for most people.
So in one sense, I can't blame him for continuing his narcissistic behavior, because to face the truth would be terrifying and completely destroy him - which would probably lead to an early death. Of course if that happened, I wouldn't be too sad about it.
Good day.
“Why are you wearing clothes?” Because it’s cold and we are tool building apes that like to solve environmental problems with our intelligence and opposable thumbs.
Here’s a better question, why did god make nudity something inherently sinful and that we should be ashamed of?
@@Sammyxxoo Lots of animals have evolved to shed their fur, lots of animals use tools to solve problems in their environment.
@@Sammyxxoo Too many to list any? Seems sus.
Seriously though I’m not going to get into an evolution debate with you. It is the consensus position among all relevant fields of research.
If you want actual answers than ask honest questions rather than assume you’ve got some smack down argument against a field you don’t I undetstand.
@@Sammyxxoo Nor should you. But you should care about what you believe, and whether or not those beliefs correspond with reality. If that’s important to you anyway, if not then cool.
@@Sammyxxoo Ok great 👍
Interesting. Every animal is perfectly equipet for the climate they live in and no animal needs to wear the skin of another animal to survive in a harsh environment( and don't need sunscreen). Animals only eat and hunt what they have available, again in their own area. Humans are the only species, which needs to wear the fur of other species to survive and we are good at destroying the environment and other species. And we have the nerve to call ourselves intelligent. The evolution theory doesn't make any sense when looking at the entire history of humanity.
Accepting for a moment that "on the day" means "in the time", if Adam were still alive today, would you say that God was telling the truth? How far into the future could "in the time" stretch? Does "in the time" mean anything in this context? What if we take that phrase out? Does the meaning change?
All glory and praise to Jesus for your work Ken Ham. Ty for being the best creation apologist in our current generation. ❤🙏🏼
Ken Ham is the man!
Well Alex has arguments and reason with him. Ken has a 2000 years old book that is self contradictory and makes no sense in the face of scientific progress. I m with Alex.
I confess my response would've been more hasty and ill-tempered; like the sons of thunder. Thank you, Ken, for your patient and biblically sound teaching. God bless.
Because you can't handle criticism. It's nothing to be proud of, turn to God and ask Him to give you strength.
Ken is not Biblically sound. Both the Old and New Testament teach that covenantal death is the price for sin not physical death.
Where is the term covenental death found in the Bible? @@simonfreeman308
😂😂😂😂😂😂you reasoning for why we wear clothes is very silly.
How the mind can twist and turn to fit things.
If Alex put in the same effort to understand the Bible instead of trying to go against it, he would find that everything in the Bible is historically accurate.
@@Legend-mg2ryno matter how delusional " every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL confess Jesus is Lord
Alex is a fine young man who doesn’t want Christians with a book dictating how he should think or live…God doesn’t need Christianity who thinks it’s God
@@wonderlife62 Maybe Alex should change his mind because he's not doing a good job of thinking on his own.
He did a full theology degree at Oxford…..what?
@@JoshYng Even if that is true, it means nothing to actual knowledge. Theology schools are crap, yes even Oxford.
Atheist = one who denies all Godly truth because of his unrighteousness
Theist: one who denies all reality because of their delusional upbringing.
If the biblical god were to exist, it would be incompetent. For supposedly being all powerful and all knowing, this god has cocked up on a few occasions, serious cockups.
@BrianNewton286 like what?
No Ken. Speaking as a Christian, I don’t think you’ve given the answers needed or all the answers needed.
And the talk about we can’t trust Alex’s rationality because… leave it aside, for now.
The focus should be on answering the questions he poses, what if you’re preaching the Gospel to someone and they ask such questions, what are you going to say, ‘Who cares what you think about what we believe!’ 🤷🏽♂️🙆🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Hey buddy why you disable the likes? Afraid perhaps?
Hope to visit Kentucky one Day…🇺🇸
Soli Deo Gloria
You can have "faith" in anything . However , it's very hard to defend fairy tales .
I don't have 'faith' in anything at all. There are things I believe, and things that I don't. Do you have 'faith' in anything? Maybe research the word 'faith'. I think the word 'trust' can be better used. I 'trust' the sun will rise in the morning, I have evidence that it has risen every morning for quite a few years now, I trust it will also do so tomorrow. 'Faith' is a word one uses when one does not have a good reason for believing something.
Alex: evil must have existed in the garden before Adam & Eve sinned because the evil serpent was there to deceive Eve. Ken: actually, the devil used the serpent, so...no problem! Yeah Ken, that definitely rebuts Alex's point 🙄. Makes me think of Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun, "Alright! Nothing to see here! Move on!...".
Also Ken: "...God did punish the serpent...". For? Being the unwitting tool of the devil?
If we can't trust our ability to reason if we are a product of evolution, what does it say that your ability to reason has been seriously impaired by the beliefs you were doubtless indoctrinated into from a young age?
Satan didn't rebel until after Adam and Eve were created. On the seventh day. Before that everything was "very good". And yes the serpent was something unique in the garden but we aren't given much more details.
@@MrLaughingcorpse That's unfortunate timing. Too bad God couldn't have seen that coming.
@@makescode God saw everything from beginning to end. All that was in his plan. You should really read the bible first before making comments about God.
@@MrLaughingcorpse Do you think arrogantly assuming I haven't read the bible is in keeping with the fruits of the spirit? I don't. Also, I've read the bible entirely, more than once.
Does God hate sin in your view? And if yes, yet sin was a part of his plan from the beginning? God is not willing that any should perish, but also billions of people ending up in Hell was part of the plan?
I'm just trying to figure out which particular set of contradictory claims you have decided you want to try to defend.
It's all very simple.
The universe is one big state, a state with laws. And God is the president. We all broke those laws and are heading into death. Completely fair. But that is a way out that God has provided in Jesus Christ. By him, we can be forgiven and get a new life if we accept his sacrifice for us and turn away from our inequities.
Atheists simply don't like the way God runs his universe. Too bad for them. And the more they attack the truth, the truth shines more brightly.
Thank you, Mr. Ham.
So Jesus isn't god, as God has Jesus? Well there is something I have not heard for a while.
Dr. Bart Ehrman would have a field day in this camp! 😆😆😆
Bart Err-man's spirit is still dead, the blind trying to lead the blind...
Bart deals with what is understood, or likely to be true, I doubt he would get involved with creationist silliness, I could be wrong though.
Hey Ken, thanks so much to contributing to my switch to agnosticism 🩷
Sometimes, I don't think you refuted his points, but attacked him for having "random" thoughts, even though you believe he was made by God.
For example, he said the snake was evil to say that evil existed in Eden. Even if the devil is evil, and was acting through the snake, that still validates Alex's point I think.
Other times, like when you called out his misunderstanding of "day", I think you had better criticisms of his ideas.
Stick to attacking ideas, not the person.
And yet when I love one dies you feel sorrow. But it's the single most wonderful. Great incredible thing that can ever happen to a human being. According to Christianity is going up to heaven and meeting god. You say with your mouth you believe something but you actions betray you. So before you point the finger at somebody else not really believing it's you that doesn't believe. Truly that's all of you
I'm an ex YEC, but I find that Ham's answer is very calm and respectful. Even though some of O'Connor's points were slightly dodged 😊
That’s funny because I’ve found myself becoming an ex OEC now after listening to some of Ham and others. This guy has been demonized so much even I years ago as an OEC Christian thought he had to be some shady dude.
But what I’ve come to realize is YEC’s interpretation of Genesis is indeed the most “natural” one. The ONLY reasons I had for not believing it and finding other explanations, even as a believing Christian who still thought Adam was real, was due solely to interpretations of “evidence” that have truly nothing to do with the Bible indeed like geology deposits, the speed of light and distance of stars, etc.
All of Alex's main point were dodged
@@celestialsatheist1535 how?
@@jameslafayette3866 by avoiding the most of the video and ad hoc explanations with no references
@foxnfire6388 I suggest you check out inspiring philosophy and his discussion over genesis which is a series of videos. Tbh I think YEC is incredibly flawed
I love it! But a lil suggestion 😅 you should show all the books, chapters, and verses you say so they'll read it (if they're interested enough) and be saved. ❤
What evidence is there that the serpent was the devil/Satan?
Gnarly and tricky questions from Alex. Answered as well as possible. Open your mind body and soul to the spirit of God to gain real understanding.
@@Billy1690-ws8jz I refer you to the offer that Ken laid out at the end of his talk.
@@andrewkoster9339 I'm saved already friend, are you saved?
Please explain your earlier answer then?
@@Billy1690-ws8jz Oh your saved all right, pigeon holded with the rest of the sheep
@@andreimaxwell4455 good luck. You're going to need it.
0:55 Just because something can comes about by chance does not mean it is flawed. It is true that random mutations occur and specific mutations come about by chance, but these mutations are naturally selected for. 'Chance' is not the only component of evolution. Logic and reason may have been 'selected' for as they are beneficial - the same goes for sight and the ability to digest lactose.
But our perception wasn’t selected for understanding reality, only for survival. If an intelligent rat species, during its evolution, evolved an irrational fear of cats, thinking they’re actually giant venom-breathing dragons, and actually being able to smell the fictional poison, such feature would be favorably selected. But the resulting rat species would have a distorted view of reality. The same applies for the laws of logic: by evolution, we only know they apply to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle in the savana; not necessarily so in abstract thinking about the world. That’s the point.
Please explain to me the 'evolutionary benefit' of the Reimann Hypothesis
"Sin becomes custom, custom becomes habit, habit becomes nature, nature becomes necessity". Bernard von Clairvaux
Ken, I didn't see the previous trail of videos, but because this is without any context, I'm guessing Alex derailed the topic as a sort of ad hominem; or instead of giving an argument for the previous points, he attacks Christianity/The Bible in general. I would recommend you point that out as a primary response.
We appreciate you Ken Ham
As an atheist I appreciate him as there is nothing better that a Christian apologist who literally believes the ark story to convince people to be atheist 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I must say I smile when people claim people have so called free will. Because when we use socratic method no one seem to be able to explain what that is suppose to be. Why do chriatians ever sin if they have so called free will?
Any system that involes threat, I don't entertain it.I used to believe these stories since I was a child not because I figured it out myself but because it was handed down to me by my parents whom I respect and admire. My curiousity did not stop me there, a few years back something caught my attention that made me so inerested in watching hundreds of hours of formal debates about this subjects. I only watched debates of experts on their respective fields, most of them with PhDs, scholars, popular authors. I approched it with open mind even if I was raised in a religious family. I wished I did it earlier in my life. One of the many important lessons I learned was you have to be comfortable in saying "I don't know" while you are still figuring it out.
Alex probably doesn't understand that you can discipline your children with love. It sounds like an oxymoron to him.
A materialist can't help but see everything in regards to pleasure and self-gratification, its impossible for them to understand any concept of suffering being good for someone.
@@Spartan322 Of course cancer is so good for people
@@Spartan322 Do you really believe this?
@@tomasrocha6139People who are "SICK," normally PRAY HARDER!
GOD is a Rewarder of those who Pray-------FERVENTLY!
@@Spartan322The constant spiritualization of suffering has to be the worst aspect of Christianity. Because people starve to death to "learn from it"
Some good stuff here but Ken makes the same mistake that he has in the past regarding Gen. 2:17. The correct answer to Alex is that yes, Adam did die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit. And it was a literal death. He literally spiritually died. Just as one is literally Born Again when regenerated.
One thing I did find thought provoking was the idea of pain and Eve's pain being multiplied or increased. I'm wondering if Ken believes there was NO pain prior to the Fall. I see no logical or theological reason that has to be the case. Pain is not always a bad thing,. It can be a good thing. From both an alarm and teaching POV.
I agree. Honestly I never thought about the multiplying of pain thing. This guy Alex is literally picking small details in the Bible to "debunk" it.
There was only one woman in the garden; Eve. No woman had ever given birth yet………..
What was the question?
I believe that his refusal to acknowledge Gods and the Bible boils down to one single reason,,, he wants to continue enjoying his practice of habitual sin. Period!
They hate the light because their deeds are evil
No, he just wants the truth.
If he wanted to sin he be a Christian like you and Ken to narcissistic to consider the other side
Alex has already said that the reason he doesn’t believe is because he is simply not convinced.
He said that if he had evidence or an experience that convinced him that God existed or Christianity was right, he would then try to stop sinning because an eternity of heaven would be better.
But right now he doesn’t believe Christianity to be true, so for him, he sees no reason why he shouldn’t enjoy doing things that would be considered sins in Christianity but in reality don’t hurt anyone, and aren’t illegal.
So according to Alex, he actually doesn’t believe, and he said he would love to have a relationship with an all-powerful, all-loving God if such a being actually did exist, and he was convinced of it.
Of course, we can’t really know if he’s being honest about this- we can’t really know his heart.
Ham's excellent point on Alex's premise: if human logic evolved then how can O'conner see any of his reasons as valid.?
Well done Ken Ham. Keep up the good work. For any faltering Christians struggling with their faith, your words will have convinced them that atheists seem to speak far more sense and are far more rational. You're the best recruiting officer the atheists have!
“Well done Ken Ham. Keep up the good work. For any faltering Christians struggling with their faith, your words will have convinced them that atheists seem to speak far more sense and are far more rational.
You're the best recruiting officer the atheists have!”
By sheer coincidence I’ve actually got two new brands of pen right here on my desk which i use for writing down ultimately meaningless and ultimately POINTLESS comments. A [Richard Dawkins pen] and a [@waggyqua pen]. They’ve got no POINT!
Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when “thoughtful” fatalists and “thoughtful” epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [for] “MORAL” subjectivism and “powerful” and “intelligent” arguments [for] a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism???
NEITHER DO I!!
Or even better!! Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when thoughtful fatalists and thoughtful epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [against] OBJECTIVE MORALITY, that is “powerful” and “intelligent” arguments [against] the fundamental nature of [MIND/FREEWILL/CONSCIOUSNESS/THE ACTUAL/THE ONE/MONOTHEISM]???
NEITHER DO I!!
Interesting fact, “NEW ATHEISM” that is fatalism and epistemological nihilism is exactly like the old atheism if the old atheism was bitten by two infected bats called Darth Dawkins and DARTH PROFOUNDLY POINTLESS and got an over Zealous strain of RABIES!!
Why is Ken Ham's voice so soothing?... maybe because you can tell he's genuine, rational and kind?
I love it and a great reminder to remain kind during these kind of debates/challenges because we just serve the Truth and Pray, no need to lose our peace.
Is that why you believe his BS?
@@torreyintahoe Do you mean believing him because he's rational, and genuine and kind? Definitely 😉
@@TheodoreKlemmedson Ken Ham is a great example of that example of Christ. I have listened to an missionary from Mexico for years, and he's been beaten, stoned, shot stabbed and imprisoned for the Gospel... he's really gruff... but is a great example of Jesus too.
I do see Elijah taunting the prophets of Baal, and Jesus and John the Baptist even using name (not cursing of course), but they called the self righteous of their day, snakes, vipers, white washed tombs full of death, and other things... so personally it's difficult to see that saying "everything" in a calm soothing voice isn't the only way to confront people... maybe some people are won by more aggressive confrontations and others by warmth (like Ken Ham)...I love listening to Ken confronting the atheists but I also love hearing the missionary David, confronting them with healthy aggression as well.
What do you think Theodore? I never really digested that Jesus (who could go from extremely warm and tender to extremely aggressive and offensive - the disciples told Him that He had offended the Pharisees), and John the Baptist and I do love Elijah mocking things that deserve to be mocked...a.k.a. that there are other gods.
@@Mark_Henry Teaching ignorance and science denial is as far from rational as you can get.
He didn't answer the problem of evil before sin. He just went off on a tangent to try and sidestep it entirely.
GOD is great! Amen. Praise him ALWAYS
ALWAYS ❤❤❤❤!!!!
@@raygsbrelcik5578WHY ARE WE SHOUTING???
1:54 The irony of when he says that Alex just outright doesn't believe in the bible therefore he's not going to listen is just so funny to me because that's what Ken is doing but with the bible and the genesis story. Alex is actually trying to understand and has found that it doesn't make sense, which is obvious because the bible isn't meant to be taken literally!
It is always the same stuff over and over again. If a question gets answered they ask it again somewhere else or tweak the question. I don't engage with atheists anymore because there is really no point in doing so. I always question their intent; Are they trying to save me from what they believe or think is something malicious? or they want to see my faith collapse because it is fun for them to watch? I believe because I chose to believe in God and within it I have found peace; I do really feel sorry for people who wishes me to believe or feel otherwise.
I suspect you don't engage with atheists because you simply do not have a *good* reason to why you believe in this particular god. The chances are you were indoctrinated into believing in this god, before you were aware of Allah Vishnu, Odin or whichever. You question our intent? How intriguing, why would our intent be of concern? I am curious now, what do you think atheists are trying to save you from? If your faith collapses it is down to you not having a *good* reason to believe what you do. This is not down to atheism or atheists, this is down to your *good* reason to believe, when the rational and sceptical atheists cannot see any *good* reason to believe, we are simply asking theists like yourself to present the *good* reason, or reasons why you believe, and this *good* reason could be enough to convince us also. The typical response I get is along the lines of "I could tell you why I believe, but if I told you, you wouldn't believe me" When theists say this, it simply tells me that they do not have a *good* reason. I wonder if you have a *good* reason?
Proverbs 9:7
Whoever corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury.
Proverbs 15:12
A scoffer does not love one who reproves him,
He will not go to the wise.
Proverbs 9:8
Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you,
Reprove a wise man and he will love you.
Proverbs 14:6
A scoffer seeks wisdom and finds none,
But knowledge is easy to one who has understanding.
Proverbs 19:25
Strike a scoffer and the naive may become shrewd,
But reprove one who has understanding and he will gain knowledge.
Many of these atheists fit the description of a mocker or scoffer. They will not change their minds regardless of what is shown to them.
@@aaronadamson7463 Re "Many of these atheists fit the description of a mocker or scoffer. They will not change their minds regardless of what is shown to them."
I am an atheist. you claim *"They will not change their minds regardless of what is shown to them"*
I am here to tell you that if you show me *good* evidence, that would absolutely change my mind.
The ball is in your court now. Have a blessed day.
@@aaronadamson7463 "They will not change their minds regardless of what is shown to them." May I ask what would you need to be shown to change your mind?
@@JustaNaughtyBoy If you honest about your search, which means that you have actually put in the effort to read from multiple sources which means both secular and non-secular and still lacks faith or belief than there is nothing anyone here in the comment section can do for you.
It is entirely up to you and God and non of our business who are baystanders. the bargaining of your soul is not ours to make.
If I weren’t an atheist nor a christian….I would surely find Alex more credible then the fuzzy talk of Ken.
These responses are good for those who need a greater understanding when faced with a debate, but Jesus himself could appear before this dude and he still wouldn't believe it.
A verse in part about the end days..."...the wicked will act wickedly and not understand. The wise will understand".
Thank you Ken for once again, answering misunderstanding with calm assurance and intelligent response. Well done 🥰
this is an excellent example of a confirmation bias post. Well done
Intelligent? 😂
@markb3786 so is urs. Well done
@@michaelsears6702 they merely acknowledged someone elses confirmation bias, that in itself is not confirmation bias..
Thanks for your teaching!❤
Few things.
1) Reasoning is not something that can just evolve. Reasoning comes from our ability to compile information in a deductive manner. If the information is only seen as information and not something to make inferences about, then that information will either be dismissed or acted on. Otherwise, it is played with which means the reasoning skills develop. Reasoning results from looking at information and piecing them together in a way. This is the key reason we can always improve our reasoning if there are faults. If a piece doesn’t fit, we can choose to either ignore it or find a way to make sense of it by rearranging the pieces.
So there’s not really a, “did his reasoning evolve correctly?” Because reasoning just is. You either have the capacity, in which case you are able to make you’re own conclusions, or you don’t and you’re basically just a machine.
2) Alex has, at least once or twice, asked why he has never gotten the slightest hint of reliable evidence for God’s existence. Yet, he does not hold the belief that there is no God. Just that it doesn’t seem like there is.
3) Morality has always been a choice regardless of whether God exists. Even if it is subjective, it still matters. The question of whether it is objective is just playful thinking. An exercise in thought to discover something about the nature of morality.
4) Fourth, and lastly, your lack of acceptance with scientific evidence as well as the disrespect towards even other Christians judging by your video about William Lane Craig 4 months ago, is a prime example of why religion is, or can be, dangerous. There’s no reason why an all-good God wouldn’t allow for questions and doubt, and exploration. Not only that, you don’t actually know that the Bible is true, just what seems to be the most plausible explanation to you given the information you’ve come across.
I was sincerely looking for an answer to the points raised by Alex. I was disappointed. You made a careful selection of clips from Alex's video to show them as trivial considerations. What about his point "God lied, the serpent told the truth," or when he talks about the "tree of life" where God clearly says he does not want us to have eternal life?
I'm reminded of a statement by Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible."
Alex O'Connor has put up an interview with Peter Hitchens where Alex argues the case for legalising gateway drugs. PH gets bored and walks out of the interview saying that Alex isn't listening, hasn't read his book, and therefore keeps asking the same questions. PH says not to use the interview but Alex says he will.
That's not a completely accurate portrayal of the interview, and I think you know that. I encourage anyone to go watch it, and decide if this comment really covers the heart of what happens...
Interesting note that Adam lived for 930 years and scripture says that a thousand years is but a day to God. So, maybe God was literally referring to a day…from his perspective .
Looks like Ken set him straight.
🤣🤣🤣
Alex clan is saying the same thing
Perceptions can be amusing.
Isnt it funny how all these "problems in the Bible" are majority far fetched ideas that you literally have to read a verse out of context to come of with these ideas, but when you read the verse within the book entirely and in hence put it in context it makes either perfect sense and would never come up with those conclusion these critics think of. I really dont understand how they can pick apart this book and notpick ever little word but would never, ever do that with any other book. You dont even have to start nitpicking words to see that evolutional theory doesnt hold up to criticism yet the Bible does hold up, they just don't want to hear the answers to the criticisms
_You dont even have to start nitpicking words to see that evolutional theory doesnt hold up to criticism_
Such as?
_yet the Bible does hold up_
The bible is filled with falsehoods that can be proven as falsehoods. Pretty much the whole of Genesis and Exodus, just for a start. Neve rhappened, not a shred of evidence for them, but massive amount sof evidence they did not.
Mr. Ken Ham is the stuff of legends!!!!
If the bibull was true and correct with no mistakes then why are there two versions of:-
1. Creation.
and
2. Noah's Arc.
????
I am a Christian and Alex has some good points that i agree with. Allegorical references are found throughout the Bible. The Bible was written by "fallible man," and made errors, some on purpose some by mistake. At least mr. Ham believes in free will - surprised at that.
These things are important because truth matters. We only have a dim view of the omnipotence of God. Science, history, archeology, psychology and other studies shed light on our dim view.
Alex's comments about God establishing man on the earth with an already demonic influencer, is one i have thought about. It depends on who arrived first - the timing of Lucifers rebellion in relation to mans creation.
Mr. Ham's continual use of circular logic needs to be understood from his dogmatic world view. He's likely afraid of the truth and makes a nice living at it - don't forget to buy the book!
The biggest thing I see in athiest is they think God is bad but safe. But they have it backwards. God is good but He isn't safe.
The "biggest" thing? I 'm an atheist, and from conversing with other atheists, the "biggest" thing that atheists see is no god at all. We do not see any good evidence that your god, or the Hindu gods, Pagan gods, the Muslim god, or the thousands of other gods actually exist. If you are considering what the bible claims are the actions, laws, traits, character etc of the biblical god, then I think many atheists would say that this supposed god would be a bigoted, misogynistic, hateful, unjust and genocidal idiot of a god if it were to exist. Would this god be 'safe'? Probably not, I wouldn't leave my kids anywhere near it, this god has killed many thousands of kids, babies, pregnant mothers etc from the accounts in the storybook called the bible.
Can't say I've ever seen that.
To me, god seems imaginary. The christian god specifically is not portrayed as a good being at all. Not according to the bible anyway.
I know of no atheist who thinks this. Seems like just a speculated reciprocal dichotomy you thought was clever.
@@amaizenblue44 I did find it interesting that there are three atheists that don't show the traits of the atheists that they imagine. I am genuinely thinking that this person has not asked an atheist what they think of the biblical god, it is possible that they have not even met an atheist if that is their viewpoint of what atheists believe. I can think of no atheists that if they were to postulate that the biblical god exists that they would consider that they feel safe with this god around. When we look in the bible alone, this god has killed well over 2 million people, amongst them there were three genocides, and there was Jericho also which may class as genocide also that is not a god one feels 'safe' around. I do agree with the 'bad' though, though I would suggest 'bad' is an understatement. Was it 'bad' that this god sent two she bears to rip apart and slaughter 42 boys for teasing and name calling on a bald bloke? This Christian appears naive or blinkered on what constitutes 'safe' or 'bad'.
@@amaizenblue44 what I mean Atheist say stuff like obviously there is no God because why would a God let kids die of cancer. Which shows that they don't thing God is good if He exists. And they say stuff like if they die and there is a God they will say this or that. Which is assuming if there is a God He is safe where you can reprimand Him but that's like saying if I die and there is a ferocious lion I will tell him a thing or two. They think God is not good but is safe.
But He is good and He ain't safe.
This kid is trying very hard to come across as smart and wise, but instead he comes across as whining and unhappy.
What's interesting, Adam did die in a day, a day of God (1000years). Adam died nearly 1000 years old.
May people who listen to Alex come to faith by being exposed to scripture. May the scales be removed from Alex’s eyes also.
Maybe whe he has an operation and lose half of his brain, then it could be he ended with faith in christianity.
@@Heikos006Uh.....yeh....?
@@raygsbrelcik5578
Oh it happend to you? Did it work? I mean you aren't able to speak but are you a christian with faith now?
I've read the scriptures. They really helped me see how clearly false Christianity is.
I'm not sure you should advice reading scripture if your goal is to convert.
Ken is calm yet Alex has difficulty hiding his rage. This should tell you a lot about where this young man is at both spiritually and emotionally.
His rage? He sounds calm to me
Tinted glasses. Somehow your eyes and ears convince you that Alex here is having "difficulty hiding his rage". Weird
Ken, has your Hugh Ross debates ever changed your view on young earth creationism and where can I get your resources so I can put you and Hugh's worldviews against each other?
@@Mario_Sky_521 Why do you think he believes evolution? He has written extensively in his books (including an entire one on it) explaining how an old earth is not old enough for evolution? Maybe you haven't read many of his books
If logic evolved from evolution, then how can you logically say that your logic is fully evolved? I love you Ken. Keep rocking the TRUTH! 😁
I think that one cannot say that one's "...logic is fully evolved" Who is suggesting that it is? Evolution continues. With regard to creationist suggesting that evolution is not a thing, then their logic would be planted back in biblical times, which is pretty much what we see with regard to creationists, as they regect much of scientific discovery, though it seems only any science which does not agree with an old bronze age book, that defies normal logic, though not creationist logic.
@@briannewton3535 Creationists don't understand that evolution never stops.
@@darrelsapp1232 Creationists don't accept that evolution ever started, let alone it somehow stopping. Adam didn't evolve into mankind that can no longer live to over 900 years old, it was magic that did that. When one believes in magic, what requirement is there to live in the real world. Creationists, forever children with their magical beings and story books. Bless their hearts, and their cotton socks.
@@briannewton3535 You don't have to believe something in order to understand it as a concept.
Atheism demands a reason for suffering while lauding a Godless worldview that inherently embraces meaningless suffering! Alex welcomes it in fact, claiming it makes a strong case for naturalism since we don’t need some pesky God to blame for it. How convenient. Ken’s right, Christianity is the only one that explains it-whether atheists like the explanation or not.
I have so many questions regarding faith and religion. I have been getting answers more everyday with humility and humbleness. Each side of the debates we have should practice that more in their responses and life.
When I wrote "The King's Story" I tackled so many of the issues Alex raises in a great deal of depth.
God did not "put an evil serpent in the garden." He created angels, but they, like us, are not robots, they had free will and one of them decided to rebel and took a third of them with him. He then inserted himself into God's creation. I have a great deal of respect for Alex, he's very intelligent, but his theological understanding is quite lacking.
If you don't read things as deliberately superficially as Alex, the story of creation awesome and glorious and actually makes perfect sense. As a novelist I often speak on the Bible and one of the things I love most is that the the way the Biblical narrative actually connects together despite different writers in different historical periods is astonishing.
I’ve never found the free will defence of things very compelling. Because to suggest that god couldn’t create morally righteous beings with free will seems to suggest a level of relative incompetence which necessarily impact the idea of god’s perfection and tri Omni traits. Because where is the contradiction in creating a morally righteous being who would freely choose good? And if this isn’t possible, does god not have free will?
He’s coming from an objective viewpoint calling out clear issues with the story. He came to his “framework” via investigation the same way. He bends over backwards to give theists the benefit of the doubt and readily admits any potential points they may have. There are plenty of videos on YT addressing this argument from reason intro bit. Ken Ham is a joke but I couldn’t help myself clicking.
Amazing how anyone here thinks Kens rebuttal is actually a rebuttal. 😂😂😂😂.
Ken just because you and your holy book assert there is a god, dont make it so. Learn some logic buddy.👍
A day in the lord is a thousand years. He did die that day. Same with the time line with Jesus who came first on the 4th day and shall come again on the 3rd or the 7th. The 3rd day is close. It was also told to us the jews will return to Israel at the end of the 6th day and a generation shall not pass before his return. Once again it points to the time we are in.
Alex has a real authority complex, but I think he will get over that... Preying for him.
As opposed to any Christian apologist I suppose?
I think that most Christians except that God is almighty.@@SamyasaSwi
@@tommy32408 they probably do. But that doesn't prevent Christians from having authority complexes.
Sadly, AOC reminds me of the pharoah. Both AOC & the pharoah prosper for a short time by being opposed to God. AOC has positioned his livelyhood to never genuinely seek the truth. Thank you, Ken; we are so few and we have so much work to do.
I don't think Alex is opposed to something that he does not believe exists, he is merelty referencing a story book talking about mythical creatures. Ken has positioned his livelihood on a biblical story, for which there is no good evidence presented that it is true. It seems creationists are few, and getting fewer, as folk realise that it is bunk.
sorry ken but you lost this one
I've noticed that i have questions atheist have. The difference is that my faith is in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross. All I can do is surrender my life to Christ. Be in relationship with Him.
All i know is Christ and Him crucified
Doesn’t the fact that the serpent was told it was to crawl on his belly after his temptation of Eve indicate that it was not a snake as we know it, certainly not in it’s original form?
He started off by asking why so many have left Christianity...and instead of answering this question, he has taken the debate all over the place and time...(6000 years ago ...remember?).
The Christian flock have abandoned and will continue to do so because of the blatant corruption inside the Church and their indifference to the needs of the flock...
In the meantime, empty Church buildings are being sold off...All glory to God indeed
The pitcher and piano is a converted church and a great pub I've been in in Nottingham, (UK) Churches are lovely buildings, it's great to see them better attended as pubs.
Yes. As foretold by the Bible. Repeatedly warning of this very thing.
@@dontaylor1701 I guess folk writing books a couple of thousand years ago absolutely knew nothing about folk leaving religion when they wrote about this stuff. Like they never noticed folks leaving paganism to join their new religion, which they were actively encouraging them to do. I do find it interesting what people believe from reading an old story book.
@@JustaNaughtyBoy
Apparently you don’t read the Bible because it is replete with warnings about this. In both the Old and New Testaments.
False prophets, following after the Gentiles, setting up groves, high places. God divided the kingdom and then sent them into captivity several times. Ahab, Jezebel…any of this ringing a bell?
That’s just in the OT.
Jesus confronted the scribes and priests until they conspired to kill him. Multiple parables and stories about this subject. All of Paul’s epistles, Revelation.
Do you know what a remnant is?
I think you should take a coffee break.
Also the original sin consequences of Adam and Eve and the Serpent, those were curses, not simply suffering the iniquity of...