The Park Tool CM-5.3 Cyclone Chain Scrubber - Is It Better Than An Old Jam Jar?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- The Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber - Is it worth the £35 price tag, or can you do a better job with 35p worth of degreaser in a jar.
The most important part of your bike to keep clean is your drivetrain. And the most important part of your drivetrain to keep clean is the chain. In this video, I test out the Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber, to see how good it really Sid.
=============================
All products and tools discussed in this video
=============================
Maintenance Stand:
amzn.to/49YAUtz
Park Tool CM-5.3 - Cyclone Chain Scrubber:
amzn.to/420q3eW
Park Tool MLP-1.2 Master Link Pliers Tool
amzn.to/3Sw87pL
Viro-sol Citrus Based Degreaser - 5 litres (Degreaser used in the jar)
amzn.to/45Da07B
Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9% - 1 Litre (Used in Park Chain Scrubber):
amzn.to/3vEhDxQ
Screwfix Heavy Duty Degreaser (Degreaser used in Park Chain Scrubber):
www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsens...
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:16 - My Assumptions
01:39 - How will I test it?
03:20 - A closer look at the Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber
04:45 - Cleaning Agents Used
06:14 - Testing and using the Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber
07:36 - How did the Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber do?
08:21 - Can an old jar do a better job?
10:10 - How did the old jar do?
11:14 - Conclusion
About Ribble Valley Cyclist:
I am a regular road cyclist based in the North West of England. I have been a cyclist my whole life, and try to get out every day. The purpose of my RUclips channel is to share the knowledge I’ve built up in my 40 years as a cyclist.
Follow me on Instagram:
/ ribblevalley_cyclist
Follow me on Facebook:
/ ribblevalleycyclist
See my routes on Komoot:
www.komoot.com/user/184990942...
Follow me on RUclips:
/ @ribblevalleycyclist
Email me:
ribblevalleycyclist@gmail.com 
Спорт
I’ve used both… a long soak is far better than any brush. Having 2 chains in rotation is probably best method.
Great advice 👍
Great video and a fair conclusion. For me, I went to immersive waxing this past year (Silca Hot Melt) for my road bike and I will never go back. I rotate between two chains, I use the Silca Wax Drip lube between full chain re-waxing (1 or 2 cycles) and I never have any issues. I am also very good about using a gear wipe to wipe down the chain after nearly every ride to remove any surface dirt. The overall amount of work I put in is extremely small and the results are stellar.
Glad you liked it. I've considered wax for a summer setup, but I just don't know how affective it'd be on a winter bike riding through filthy country lanes and tracks.
I agree. My riding is not 'messy', the worst I will typically encounter will be some dirty roads and summer-time rains (central US), but certainly nothing near your British winter conditions.@@ribblevalleycyclist
RUclips has taught me different parts of the world need completely different setups..... rim/disc is a fine example of this. @@ShawnIsBatman
@@ribblevalleycyclist cold and wet , I tend to run waxed - theory - the wax stays harder in the cold , summer rain I reckon will strip the wax off faster ? - total guess , so I have waxed chains plus oiled chains and swap about .
Bought my Park Tool Chain Scrubber for about £23 - i only use it on the Shimano pin type chain. A real hassle. Also for the first 3 baths i use mineral turpentine, followed by IPA (as you used) and then wipe it down let it sit for about 10 mins then use the silca chain stripper (reusable after filtering thru a coffee filter). The fourth rinse is plain old water. Wipe the chain and let it air dry if it’s hot or use a hair dryer on cold setting. Then i use drip wax.
But what you did is great. For chains with quick links i just remove the chain and into a jar
To be honest, Rameish, the Park scrubber really impressed me on how well it did. Yeah, but as you say, the jar is great too.
Really good video. I used these chain cleaners back in the early days (I think I got both a Park Tool and a Muc Off one, so I basically wasted enough money for a modest ultrasonic cleaner on them) and then got an ultrasonic cleaner a few years ago and never looked back. Funny thing is that nowadays I often do just the jar clean, when the bike itself doesn't warrant a full clean and I just want a shiny, quiet chain. I only bother with ultrasonic bath if I have multiple chains to do and/or I'm washing the bike as well, then I can do that while waiting for the ultrasonic wash.
And btw taking the chain off can be even easier/faster with a Wippermann Connex Link, which is a completely tool-less master link which takes seconds to undo/redo. I've replaced all the quick links in my fleet with those and while expensive (15-20e each, it's usually better to just buy a Wippermann chain that comes with one, they're good), they are arguably the best quality of life upgrade when it comes to chain maintenance. They also don't wear (at least in the same way) like regular quick links, since they don't rely on any compressive force. You'd do your viewers a service if you ever reviewed a Connex Link, a lot of commenters seem to think quick links are either single use or require tools or both.
Use the ultrasonic Bath, It cleans it as you know
and you don't get degreaser/cleaning solution all
over your chainrings, jockey wheels, cassette
frame and the floor. Also there may well be a
possibility that the cleaning fluid from the chain
cleaner could work its way into the bushings or
bearings on the jockey wheels and may well
work its way into the bearings in the freehub.
Its a total waste of £35.
Agreed, ultrasonic is the best way to clean a chain. Trouble is, for the occasional user, ultrasonic is an expensive option. To be honest though, I don't waste my time, I just throw it in the ultrasonic bath. I can then get on with other jobs.
Big fun! Thanks for the information!
Glad you enjoyed it, Steve 👍
Brilliant (as always) !
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it 👍
agree with the conclusion - and a shake in some petrol is even more effective
Great video, live the details. Looking forward to seeing the video on changing wheel bearings, and also at some stage changing a bottom bracket
Yeah, did say I was doing a wheel bearing one, will get it sorted. Did I say i was doing a BB video???
Thanks for lettin me know about wiping the splashes off imediatley
No worries!
Another hack that can be used if you don't want to take the chain off is a couple of nail brushes (3 for a quid from pound shops) brush the degreaser on and run through, not as effective as the jam jar still.
Agreed, still the best way is to take the chain off, and give it a good soaking. I've always meant to do a video on it...... maybe one day.
I've used those chain scrubbers on more retro/townie bikes that often come without quick links. My tip is to do two rounds: one with the degreaser, and then another with hot soapy water to rinse it off. Jar still works better, but if removing the chain is a hassle, the scrubber will do okay.
Suspect it’d be more affective with retro/townie bikes, as the chains tend to be wider, so the brushes can get in there.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Oh yeah, that makes total sense actually.
Hi jon, most informative video as always .l will try viro sol on my chains before re waxing them instead of petrol. Tha nks again. 7:26
It's a very good degreaser, the strongest I've ever used. Careful though, it's strong stuff. If you splash either you or the bike, wash it off.
Nicely presented.
I agree with you and will remove the chain for a proper clean. I tend to use a cheap baking tray filled with white spirit and leave it soaking over night , or if I forget, until the next ride.
Eyup..... Good to hear from you!
That method is great for getting the chain clean. I made that mistake the other day, after making this video, because I forgot to put that chain back on the bike. There I was, all kitted up, trying to refit a chain 🤣
The chain rubber tool is more for people who are scared to remove chain and reuse their quicklink all the time (as the manufacturer say 1 use only for most).
Agreed, Nad 👍
I prefer to use Finish Line Grunge brush, the bristles last for years, and are replicable. I got a spare set. It's just a handle with chain brush on one side and cassette brush on the other.
I've had mine for over 7 years, but the bristles look quite worn now. I'm satisfied with the durability, longevity. Knock off products exist, but you can't replace the bristles on those.
I like using it as it's so easy and quick to use. I just spray some degreaser on the bristles. I wipe the chain with a rag when it's time to dry the bike, once the chain is dry I lube it.
Seems like a lot of mucking about for a chain. So glad I don't have to deal with that anymore. Immersive hot waxing (2 pot) is soo much easier.
Wax is great in a clean environment, but if you ride on muddy roads, trails or tracks (UK country lanes are muddy in the winter) then the wax gets really messed up. Great for the summer bike though.
As far as chain scrubbers go, I do like the CM 5.3. I actually also bought the CM 25 for $100 😯. In recent years though I started using my own 5-bath method (kerosene, then citrus degreaser, followed by mineral spirits, followed by dish soap & hot water, and finishing with just warm water. Shaking vigorously in separate plastic containers for each stage. I went through various peanut butter variations over a few months just to have a different lid colour for each cleaner. I do wipe dry with a shop towel to finish. I do notice that the inner plates still look like there's a very slight bit of 'staining' (not the proper word but don't know how best to describe). If I were to take a pipe cleaner and go through every link, it'd be spotless. Alternatively, I could do the final cleaning using the Park CM but just with warm water.
That is a really good cleaning routine. Not many people make that much of an effort. The only way you’d improve on that, is with an ultrasonic cleaner.
@@ribblevalleycyclist I've heard the poor-man's ultrasonic cleaner is to put the jar atop a front-loading washer as goes through the various cycles, takes way too long though, and my wife wouldn't put up with it 🤣
@WowRixter Haha…. Brilliant 😂😂
I've also been waxing my chain for the last 8 months, this is my first winter so the jury is still out. When cleaning the chain off the bike I degrease then immerse in IPA, then wax. My reasoning is that IPA will evaporate quickly and reduce the chance of any water being left behind.
Agreed, IPA is a very affective chain cleaner. A common option for 'Waxers' is ultrasonic followed by an IPA dip. As I ride dirty lanes and tracks during the winter, wax isn't a viable option for me. May look at it in the summer though.
I know that's why I use it
I guess both have their place depending on your circumstances and what resources you have at your disposal, but 2 chains in rotation with ultrasonic cleaner is my preferred option.
And your preferred option is very good, Paul 👍
Merci!
Merci!, Denis 👍
I've got the Park Tool chain cleaner and use the same Screw fix degreaser (diluted) as shown in this video. I agree that, yes, it doesn't do a thorough job, especially after multiple uses, as all the internal scrubbers get quite dirty and worn and difficult to get back to as new condition. Having said that, I was always under the impression that quick links were single use only, so avoid taking the chain off until it's worn out. Another reason why I don't bother with the new waxing trend / religion.
Hi David, I was shocked at how well it did. I only ever fit the KMC reusable split link, which can be reused up to five times..... if not a little more 😉
I reuse quick links, I've been known to rivet Shimano chains without using the special joining rivet - I don't seem to break chains despite crunching the gears, but I carry spare links just in case.
Some quick links identify themselves as being reusable some don't. Even the reusable ones I change every 3 or 4 times and always carry a spare.
I use squirt wax as a lubricant for chain cleans off with bike cleaner and two nail brushes 😂
The lubricant you use plays a big part in how clean the chain stays.
Thank you for that. I know the scrubber doesn't remove everything (the kitchen roll I dry the chain with attests to that), but it does a good enough job for the amount of effort I'm prepared to put in.
Thanks again
Agree, it does a pretty good job. And a pretty good job ain't too bad.
I don't think anything can beat jar and petrol when in comes to cleaning traditionally lubed chain.
but really wax is just better. you only need to wipe it.
Am I correct in thinking quick links can only be used once?
Perhaps people are trying to save themselves from needing to buy new each time.... ??
I only ever fit the KMC reusable split link, which can be reused up to five times..... if not a little more 😉
@@ribblevalleycyclist Struggling to find a 12 speed version....
Don’t think they do one. Just as an FYI, NR=non-reusable, R=reusable
@@ribblevalleycyclist Wonder if an 11 speed will fit......
@gmivisualsjason3729 12 speed is 0.4mm thinner!!!!
Oh, come-on now! This is comparing apples and oranges, or alcohol and citrus cleaners in the case. Of course the citrus based cleaner works better especially after letting it soak for 10 minutes. The only fair comparison is to use the same degreaser in both methods. A humble suggestion: use Muc-off chain cleaner with a Park CM-25 including a short rest between back-pedaling sessions so the cleaner can do its job and the chain will be sparkling clean inside and out. It takes 4 minutes of effort and does not require a new $10 QuickLink that most new chains require for reinstallation.
Hi Tim,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Agreed, Viro-Sol is a more powerful degreaser. The jar method allows the use of more powerful chemicals. It can be used in the jar, but can't be used in the CM-5.3, because it would damage both the brushes and sponge..... Oh, and the floor.
Why would you use the CM-25 over the CM-5.3? They both use the same technique, and both have the same brush mechanism. The only real difference is that the CM-25 has an aluminium body, and an £80 ($100) price tag. It's the 'Professional' chain cleaner, that no professional I've met uses.
Why use Muc-Off Chain Cleaner over Viro-Sol? It's an inferior product, and costs £3.20 ($4) per 100ml, compared to the superior product, that costs £0.34p ($0.43c) per 100ml.
The Park Tool chain scrubber does an okay job, but no matter what chemical or technique you employ, the jar method does a better job.
Oh, and you're buying your quick links in the wrong place. Use a KMC, they're £5 ($6), and they're reusable.
Thanks,
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist Hi Jon. We don't get Viro-Sol here, but I believe that some citrus cleaners are quite corrosive on plastics. My main complaint is that you changed two parts of the experiment and claimed that the improvement was because of the method with no credit given to using a vastly more aggressive degreaser.
The all metal CM-25 is a bit of a splurge. But, after replacing several of the plastic versions that only last two years, the CM-25 is worth it. I use it often and there is one Outstanding feature of the CM-25 hinged lid design: I can open the lid, close it around the chain, and lock it down; all one-handed! It is one reason why I can clean a chain in 4 minutes.
Muc-Off works great and in chain scrubbers without fear of damaging it or other plastics on the bike, especially these crazy expensive Di2 derailleurs. I wait for sales to avoid some of the higher price. Also, I simply like the Muc-Off company and trust their products.
Some report that the chain scrubbers become dirty. Muc-Off chain cleaner doesn't do that. It leaves the scrubber almost as clean as when using Kerosene, or white mineral spirits in the UK.
I now see that KMC makes a reusable 12 speed link! I didn't know that. But, they are $16. >
Good evening. I would probably avoid the use of a glass jar when cleaining a chain for fear of breakages. I use a stout plastic container with a leak proof lid so i can really agitate the chain vigorously to get rid of all the gunk. This is especially safer as i use the immersive wax method and new chains need thorough degreasing and a little glass jar wouldnt survive the ordeal! Good video thank you. 🙂🙂🙂
I used to use kerosene in a glass coffee jar, it was never a problem. Recently I used an HDPE container and that was fine too. I may have shaken harder with the HDPE.
@eternaloptimist2840 Kerosene, or paraffin as we call it is great at cleaning chains. Diesel is also great, because it contains little…….. However, it’s a little volatile, so I don’t recommend it in videos.
The only issue I’ve found with glass jars is the lid leaks or cracks. The advantage to glass is it can be used in an ultrasonic cleaner, and it lasts longer. But as I say in the video, plastic lids can crack if you’re aggressive. I have used Tupperware style containers in the past.
Good video thanks. The results don't surprise me at all but it removes enough of the dirt and grease that causes the most damage. The chain scrubber is a bit of pain to keep clean and to be honest the whole process takes just as long as removing the chain! Also, I wouldn't use one without covering the floor, especially a posh brick drive as they are very messy. I spin mine harder and faster than you did. Also the chain needs to be dead level otherwise the liquid can poor out the side holes and leave another lovely mess. I'll keep using mine until it breaks or wears out but won't replace for £35. They've certainly ramped up in price since I got mine!
Agreed on all of those points, Carl. As you probably noticed, I did level the bike off in the stand..... Meant to explain that point, but forgot! Agreed, it does an 'Okay' job, but it's quicker, easier, cleaner, cheaper, and more affective to just take it off and give it a 10 minute soak.
But Mr Jon! If only shimano quick links were reusable! I believe you have addressed this in the past but we need a definitive answer on the re usability and if it’s a no then a source for cheap quick links? I imagine those of us who take chain maintenance seriously will be using a lot of them 🤷🏻
Working on a quick link video as I type….. It may turn out to be more interesting than I first imagined, or maybe that’s just me 😂
To be fair, after one cleaning cycle my park chain scrubber makes a huge mess. I stopped using it for that reason
Agreed, it is a bit messy. But better than i thought it would be at cleaning a chain.
I am never sure of how to dispose of the fluids - is it safe to throw them down the sink/drain, or do you bottle them up for household waste?
I chuck it over next doors roses…… Just kidding, I have a 5 litre bottle with a funnel on it. You’d be surprised how long it takes to fill it. I take it to the local waste disposal site.
I sometimes use the scrubber as a pre-cleaner
Good idea, less mess that way.
I like my park chain scrubber it takes me 2 minutes to run it through whilst I'm washing the bike and because i use squirt it's never usually that dirty anyway I've given up with wet lube that stuff is too much hassle.
I'd agree, it does a pretty good job.
@@ribblevalleycyclistdid you rinse the chain after it'd been through the scrubber that usually gets the remaining mucky residue off my chain.
Are you reusing the quick-link or do you replace each time you remove the chain? Just wondered.
I had not considered removing the chain. I tend to use a similar chain cleaner to the Park Tool and then spray off with a hose, before re-oiling. I do have an outside space to do this and a hose, which not everyone has though.
Hi Julian,
I use KMC split links. KMC offer split links that can be either single use, or reused several times:
'NR' in the model number denotes Non-reusable
'R' in the model number denotes Reusable
To be honest, I throw chains in an ultrasonic cleaner. Saying that though, it's an expensive bit of kit for the occasional clean. My advice is a reusable KMC link, and a jar of Viro-Sol degreaser.
Thanks. I'll check them out on-line.@@ribblevalleycyclist
to be fair you also should do the experiment the other way round Jam jar then chain cleaner and see how much dirt is in the chain cleaner
It's a fair point you make that I should've addressed in the video. Two jar cleans would've resulted in the same as one Park scrubber, and one jar.
But the gadget is already dirty, you wouldn't know if you were cleaning the chain or just rinsing the brushes.
@eternaloptimist2840 It wasn’t that dirty inside, even after three passes. A swish out with some degreaser would suffice…….. Or stick it in the dishwasher when the Mrs isn’t looking 😂
I've been told.you shouldn't reuse quick links so should we factor in the price of these in the comparison?
Going to order some Virosol as I'm about to run out of rhino goo
As I say in the video, some of the KMC ones can be reused. Let us know how you get on with the Virosol...... careful though, it's strong!!
For me, it’s a lack of confidence in removing the chain and putting it back properly. Also, some quick links say they are single use, and the alternative, removing pins, is not feasible for me. Therefore, the clean provided by these cleaning contraptions must suffice.
A lot of people have the same opinion. As demonstrated, it’s quick and easy to remove a chain with a quick link. KMC offer a reusable link, and it’s a lot quicker and cleaner to remove the chain, and you get a better result. Refitting is simple, if it’s Shimano, it’s writing on the chain facing out. I think I’ll do a video on fitting a split link.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Did not know chains had wrong/right way of fitting. Chain and link fitting video would be great.
On it! 👍
Cheers. For me, it's the fear of a catastrophe because of my own incompetence, so the thinking is best not get into it, and just use the Park Tool!@@ribblevalleycyclist
Please make it really simple but comprehensive for the likes of me! 😆@@ribblevalleycyclist
Hate to ask, how much for the replacement brushes for the Park Tool, must be at least another 15 quid?
£6 on Amazon, direct from Park!!!!
Are all the recommended chemicals safe for use near carbon fibre frames?
Perfectly safe to use near a carbon fibre frame, as long as you don’t get it on it 😂 Joking aside, the Viro-Sol is a big no. The Screwfix one is a probably not. The Isopropyl alcohol is okay, as long as you wipe it straight off the carbon. However, you need to be more concerned about bare paint and aluminium.
Best used in the jam jar then.@@ribblevalleycyclist
I'd love to know where you get your jam from if they give you it in free jars...
Doesn't all jam come with a free jar? 😉
is your chain that slack for a reason?
Yes, it's running an 'unofficial' 34/52 chainset setup, which means you get the best of both worlds, but the chain is a little slack when in the two smallest gears..... which you'd never do...... Well spotted though.
i love using my park chain tool....i fill it with kerosene and sit out in back yard .....50 turns and my chain is perfect...ive been doing this for 40 years haha....i cant stand take my bike apart....so i guess the tool is for lazy boys like me
I must admit, I was surprised how well it did.
Great video but I'm not 100 per cent convinced this was a fair test. When using the jar, you allowed plenty of time to soak and it looks as if you used a lot more fluid than you used in the machine. I'm not sure there's really much difference between the two methods - they are both just ways of soaking the chain in degreaser and agitating it. You can get superb results from the machines if you use enough fluid, allow time to soak and then follow up by using the machine with repeated changes of hot soapy water. But there's no "right" way - everyone will have their own preference.
I agree with you Richard, it wasn't a fair test. Instead of using the one cleaning agent with the Park Tool CM-5.3, I used 3, two of them very powerful, and a lot more powerful than Park Tool recommends. Oh, and I did 90 passes, rather than the recommended 30!
Yes, I allowed plenty of time to soak when using the jar. Because that is the benefit of using a jar. Yes, I used more fluid in the jar, than in the Park Tool scrubber. Because that is the benefit of using a jar.
I went above and beyond with the Park Tool scrubber, using a process that went above and beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Agreed, the CM-5.3 did well, and I said that in the video, but you cannot ignore the fact that the jar removed dirt that the CM-5.3 had left behind.
The Park Tool CM-5.3 is a convenient tool that does a pretty good job, but a jar will do a better job, with a lot less mucking about. The CM-5.3 is Park's No2 selling product for the simple fact that people either don't want to, or aren't confident/equipped in taking a chain off. And anyway, it does clean the chain, so that'll do, right?. There is a very good reason you will see chains soaking in jars in a bike shop.
Do you own a Park Tool chain scrubber by any chance?
@@ribblevalleycyclist Thanks very much for replying. I agree, I watched the video again and you did go above and beyond with the Park Tool. To be absolutely fair maybe you could have used the same type of fluid in both tests and the same quantity of fluid in both tests and when doing the Park Tool test, maybe you could have left the fluid to work on the chain for the same amount of time. All I can say is that I have the Muc-Off machine and was about to chuck it out after watching your video but decided to give it one last chance, this time making two generous applications with Muc-Off degreaser, allowing a soak time between applications. then running a strong detergent through the machine and then two or three changes of water for rinsing. My chain came out absolutely spotless inside and out so I think I will probably stick with this method for the time being, but I've no doubt that the jam jar method would be just as effective and that a lot of people would find it easier than faffing about with these silly machines. It's a great video, very worthwhile, and thank you very much for doing it.
Yes it's better. You shouldn't remove your chain every time you want to clean it. The cost of chain connectors is insane! Unless you're a hardcore waxer of course.
I don’t think that was a fair assessment. Firstly the park scrubber removed about 90% of the grime before you soaked it in the degreaser. You should really do a test with a fully dirty chain soaked only in degreaser, for a proper comparison.
Great channel though.👍
It's a fair point you make that I should've addressed in the video. Two jar cleans would've resulted in the same as one Park scrubber, and one jar. Glad you're enjoying the content. 👍
@@ribblevalleycyclist yes excellent well produced videos.