Indigenous theologians discuss Christianity from a Native perspective
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2008
- www.sojo.net/sojotube
Rev Richard Twiss, Terry Leblanc and Raymond Aldred, Ph.D. talk about the revival of indigenous theology in North America.
For those of who are indigenous and/or people of colour who have abused by white christians, I say this:
You have every right to be angry at how white europeans used Christianity to persecute your people and countless of other indigenous individuals. What we did - and continue to do to you - was monstrous. It's a stain on our history forever, a great shame for which we must held accountable for, yet can never fully repay. We never have been morally superior to you or your people or any culture that's ever existed. In many ways I think your culture is in fact superior - especially in the sense of the respect you showed to the environment. Had we treated nature as responsibly and lovingly as yours did, we would not be facing the horror of climate change and a thousand thousand other environmental crises. What arrogant fools we were to act as if we had the right to destroy and abuse the infinitely precious masterpiece God had created! We had and have NO right to force our beliefs or our way of life upon you. I don't deserve to expect you to want to share my beliefs and I don't blame you if you hate me or others like me.
I only ask you to not assume that what Jesus taught was the same as the hateful lies and filth that my deeply disgraced people inflicted upon you. Please condemn us and not him. Jesus and his disciples didn't live in an age in which they could reap profit or control for spreading the gospel. They were persecuted, jailed, beaten and eventually killed in torturous ways for their beliefs. They were very much the underdogs and the oppressed. Of course, that isn't the case now. Today there more than a billion Christians. The conditions are sadly perfect for evil people to twist the gospel towards the most empty and horrible things - like becoming millionaire "faith healers" who take advantage of millions of vulnerable people and build megachurches that ally themselves with politicians and greedy cooperations. But before Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire the socioeconomic conditions for that kind of influence simply didn't exist. The early church weren't all perfect saints by any stretch, but they simply didn't have the power or means to win a cultural war until centuries after Jesus and his disciples died. If you want to understand why any indigenous people have any sympathy towards Christianity at all, I think it's because they have seen past our sins to the kind of person he was. This does not mean that you are under any moral obligation to become Christians, just that you please not judge those of your own people who are.
Yes true
To me this points out the universality of the one true God. He is not the god of the white man. He sent his Son into a Middle Eastern nation, not a European one. Jesus never reflected the culturally European interpretation of Christianity.
Jesus...was a real, living, breathing, historical being (read Josephus,etc.) He came from the one Creator Father...for the entire creation, the entire human race. Not one race. He reaches out to all races, all nations.
cheran y To be fair, God used Europe in many aspects. I’m talking about the Reformation, not Catholicism.
Amen
Only because the most distributed Bible translations are English and other euro languages does the faith of G-d seem white. Of course, govts in Europe and the US hijacked the "whiteness" of euro Christianity. There was the evil of "The Doctrine of Discovery" coursing thru the blood of colonialism. We were viewed as the Canaanites falling before ancient Israel. It dehumanized and demonized many people groups.
I'm from NM. I'm Mestizo as all the old families of NM are. I became a Christian at 20 years old.
I'm very grateful that my friend, also Mestizo, shared the gospel with me. Our way of life was both European and Native.
We lived in fear of the things our parents feared, strange demons, women and men with hooves (I'm serious), skin walkers. Let's not forget the dreaded LLorona the scared us with as a kid.
Diné and Spanish ways are intermingled except for the worship of nature. The Spanish respect nature the native way worships creation.
Most of the Native people here are Catholic. On feast days or special occasions their dances are done in church. You need a DNA test to know what you are here but the religious differences are stark.
It is unfortunate that people think that people think European and Christian are one and the same.
You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Most people who call themselves Christian don't understand what it means.
I enjoyed listening to these men but I found it very difficult to discern what exactly they were trying to say.
I know this, I am so grateful for Christ and for my faith in Him alone as my intercessor and salvation.
Wow....thank you for sharing your story....women and men with hooves....incredible.....you have seen no doubt some real demonic stuff in your past....I am thankful the King of Kings has rescued you!! God Bless.....Devon in Canada.
That’s a great way to put it brother god bless
I'm Lakota and growing up I believed in our pagan ways. So I've always believed in God but didn't know if he heard me when I prayed. but now that I have come to Jesus Christ now I know God hears me for he loved us so much that he gave us his only begotten son so that we may have everlasting life with him.
"Pagan" ? You mean your tribe's traditional ways ? You know what Christopher Columbus was ? He was a huge Christian in which he saw us as "sinful, savages" and the Church labeled whatever land in the New World, is God's Land and whoever Inhabitants on the land is unchristian.
The Settlers called us "pagan", you disrespect our ancestors by calling your tribes traditional teachings "pagan"..
@@lonewolfgamingplus379 yeah people can say they're Christian all they want but the only way to prove that you are is by the fruits you produce. and Jesus taught that you love your God with all your heart mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. So it sounds like he didn't understand that.
@@lonewolfgamingplus379 okay Satan worship is that better? And I had an uncle who is a shaman and I loved him very much but when he practiced he did do good things but it was always dangerous which is not how God works.
@@deeveevideos So ? If he's a Shaman, let him be. He's trying to keep whatever knowledge our people have alive. Do you hear me as a Dińe say that our medicine men aren't doing what God wants ?
What does God want ? Where is he ? I don't see him finding our missing and murdered sisters, wives, cousins and friends.
Our people were put in Bordering Schools to made sure we look our ways as "pagan", "Satan worship" as you call it.. I don't know what God wants but I think he wants us indigenous people gone from the surface of this world. He's seems like a gooood person if he thinks that way. You think he would've stepped when our ancestors were dying from smallpoxes ? Or our children were being beaten in the Bordering Schools ?
I clearly see him not doing anything for indigenous people just giving us pain, hurt and pandemic after pandemic.
@@lonewolfgamingplus379 you do not know God. Yeah and people are terrible and that's the exact reason why we need God. Do you not think our people did bad stuff to other tribes before the Europeans showed up? Let's not try to play the moral superiority game because anyone who goes against God's morality will lose.
I've grown to know Terry LeBlanc and Richard Twiss as "uncles" and it always refreshing to hear their theologies and comments on what it might mean for Native Americans to become followers of the Jesus Way.
my belief in jesus helps me find ways to be a loveable barbarian, no where does it say i have to cast asside my multi ethnic genes
I agree with from what I heard. As a white man I notice the gospel becomeing a culture in america rather than true connection with the Father thru Jesus Christ. I call it white bread religion although I heard this remark from a christian native american. Its sad what christianity has become in America today.
cross walker you should read Christless Christianity by Michael Horton
ok
so true as a Catholic this false American Christian culture is what helped lead e away temporarily from Christianity
cross walker
Religion is fairytales for adults, throw it all away.
@@nativeatheist6422 ....Nope. My brother fancied himself a traditional. Christianity was a white mans religion. Mother earth, all that jazz. Died drunk.If you know there is no God, you wont do this anyway. You wanna find out once and for all? Ask him.
What a relief to hear that They are actually DEVELOPING The Gospel, instead of just reducing it to a common denominator! SO grateful to hear this! Bless you!
💘✝➡➡➡
Jennifer Grove
No, we do not need 'reduction' of the Gospel by any means! But to suggest that it requires 'development' implies some inadequacy in it. I am not about to ascribe any 'inadequacy' to the members of the Holy Trinity, with Whom it originated. Is not Jesus the Lamb of God, slain before the foundation of the world?
Did not the Holy Spirit inspire the writing of Scripture?
Indeed when a speaker frames the Gospel in terms of 'European', 'Grecian', or 'dualistic' elements, I think that he IS reducing it and impugning its universal significance. Yes, cultural imperialism has defiled and reduced the Gospel, yet too massive an injection of 'identity politics' may produce similar effects. If in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, why should there be Native and European?
If it is true that 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God', is it not also true that ALL human culture stands under the judgment of God? Indigenous neopaganism romanticizes a primeval or mythical past. This is the mirror version of 'white supremacy', a 'feel-good' message for Native people, but not genuine Good News.
Christian offerings should be radically different from the world's offerings.
What has been missing for many Christians, is the connection to and love for nature. In forgetting that, abuses to the land, waters, and creatures have taken over. I know when I connected to nature, I realized how much I was separated from it - the tree is outside, I water it, trim it and I am inside but now I see it more that we are here in togetherness - made by and under the creator. Miigwetch!
i'm not saying we shouldn't care about the earth; i think we should. but also, i would add that the kingdom of heaven is not of this world... worship the creator, not the creation.
There's a fine line between worhip and honor, what you call worshipping the creation ( idolitry) most First Nations People are just paying homage (honor,respect) to the creation that the creator blessed us with.
Im glad to see that my native people have reached the gospel...my people have gone through hell and the only thing that can help our people get back up on our feel is the word of the lord!
Not me, it's settler colonialism.
Yes!
To all my native relations you are being misled. It is true that in the old testament The Prophet Isaiah foretold of the coming of a birth. "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. This is Jesus Christ. During Immanuel's life he was never called Jesus Christ and never a man of this name walk our Earth. It came to pass that Emmanuel (Immanuel) (Jmmanuel is the proper spelling) preached of the human being and of Creation as he went eastward with a caravan. He said, "Human beings should look upward to the stars, for majestic peace and grandeur rule there. As though by immutable law and order, the infinite and everlasting changes take place there over days, months, years and beyond for centuries, millennia and millions of years. Human beings, however, should also look downward upon the Earth for there, as well, is Creational activity and endless becoming and passing away of life and existence, toward ever newly developing forms. Greatness, excellence and beauty rule harmoniously where nature is left to itself. Much more is to be known but not in the Bible. The meaning of 666 is destruction of the truth. The Talmud of Jmmanuel is the only true word of Jmmanuel. This is the true prayer from Jmmanuel.
My spirit, you are in all-mightiness Your name shall be honored Your realm shall incarnate in me Your power shall unfold in me, on the Earth and in the firmaments Give me my daily bread today so I recognize my responsibility and I recognize the truth And do not lead me into confusion and delusion, but release me from erroneous assumption For yours is the realm in me and the power and the knowledge in eternity. (Feel the truth from this prayer and you will know it to be true!)
His Mother Mary's Tomb is in Murree, Pakistan it exists to this very day, and Jmmanuel's Tomb is in Srinagar, Kashmir, India where he lived to be 115 yrs old. Built of the very spot where he left this world. TO ALL MY RELATIONS THIS IS TRUE.
The teachings of the Catholic Church ( That beat and broken bones, pedophiles that sodomize and sexual abuse of young innocent native children, murdered, forever scaring many generations in the name of a god) the truth is undeniable. An almighty god plays the most important roll and not the human being, and secondly, that religious teachings and cult behaviors demand an unconditional worship of a god, the “holy book” that appeared as a redeemer or divine figure who placed the members under pressure, watched over them and reduced their freedom or enriched himself at the expense of the First Nations of this country and the continent of North and South America. You follow blindly. Step away All My Relations. Learn the forever lasting law of Creation.
@Enrique Martinez Do the graves rising at your feet not move you. Murders, pedophilia broken arms of three yr old native relations sexual perversions, sodomy, twisted and forgotten lives crying out, survivors tell horror stories from the church of a so called god! And you want to be counted as one who stands with the church. Use your head don't be led by this Unholy lie. The entire world is waking up to this news.
What I noticed in my Latin American travels is a practice of both Christianity and native spirituality, I find that interesting.
Hmm. I know that the philosopher and theologian David Bentley Hart would say that most of the evils perpetrated by Christians over the centuries are not from Christianity itself, but from the fact that Christian leaders have been in bed with powerful secular forces since Emperor Constantine in the 4th century, and that it would likely have been better for Christianity had Constantine kept his religion and his politics separate.
These theologians are doing a home-grown, grass-roots take on Christianity, and that's pretty inspiring and looks like what Christianity was meant to be.
Man this is awesome! We have so much to learn from this fresh, Native perspective. I would also add that there is much overlap between what was said here and the ancient Eastern Christian theology (Orthodox and Catholic)
I am making so many friends here and I will spend my life spreading the truth.
Great talk. I've been looking for someone who thought like me for a long time.
theres nothing like finding a golden echo chamber. echo chambers show us we are not alone
Yes the Gospel of Jesus and Holy Spirit do not belong to America alone.
Who do you really follow?
Scriptures tells us to follow the example of our Messiah:
1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,
Followers of Jesus, the Greek Messiah:
Pagan Names For the Father and Son(Lord/Jesus); Sunday rest; Pagan feasts of Easter and Christmas; popes; nuns; holy water; sacraments; or any separation of Messiah’s body into a “priesthood” and “laity”; eat pork(unclean foods).
(None found In the Scripture)
Followers of Yahusha, the Hebrew Messiah:
Call the Father a Son by the Sacred Name Yahuah and Yahusha; 7th day Sabbath rest; Keep the Torah and Scriptural feasts of Lev 23; eat Kosher; circumcised and wear Tzitzits.
(all found in the Scripture)
Do you follow the belief ABOUT the Messiah or OF the Messiah?
In other words, if you follow Jesus, you received the one who came in his own name:
Joh 5:43 “I have come in My Father’s Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you would receive.
But if you Follow Messiah Yahusha, you will love Him and guard His Commands:
Joh 14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.
You are of the one you obey:
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
The error of the Christian church who believes they are the new chosen and replaced the Jews/Yahudim, here is our Father's answer to that:
Rev 2:9 “I know your works, and pressure, and poverty - yet you are rich - and the blasphemy of those who say they are Yahuḏim and are not, but are a congregation of Satan.
T-Zay
No kidding. The Gospel was first preached in Judea, to Jews.
Within a generation it had spread to various places in Asia, Africa, and Europe. In recent generations it has made great advances in the so-called Third World.
When Americans appropriate the 'city set on a hill' metaphor from Matthew 5:14, it disgusts me. It ought to disturb American Christians also.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 Not 100% correct. The Jews/Yahudim that was present in the time of Messiah, was the remnant of the House of Yahudah( consisting of the tribes of BenYamin, Yahudah and some Levites) which returned from their exile to Babylon. They were called Yahudim.
What you refer to, as the spread of the Gospel, was as a result of the punishment of the Northern house of Yisrael (consisting of the other 9 tribes and the rest of the Levites), who were scattered towards the Assyrian lands, and over to Europe. They assimilated with the nations/gentiles, married them, had children adopted their traditions and beliefs. This Northern House was called Yisrael/Ephrayim.
Yahusha our Messiah only came for the lost tribes of the house of Yisrael:
Mat 15:24 And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.”
That is where He sent His disciples:
Mat 10:5 יהושע sent these twelve out, having commanded them, saying, “Do not go into the way of the gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Shomeronites,
Mat 10:6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.
Shaul/Paul had this ministry to the gentile nations to go seek, find and restore the lost Yisraelites to Him.
Kepha/Pater had the ministry of the Yahudim/Jews. Gal 2:7-9 you can read how the ministry was divided between Shaul and Kepha.
But the Gospel belongs to the people of Yisrael, all of the 12 tribes:
Jas 1:1 Yaʽaqoḇ, a servant of Elohim and of the Master יהושע Messiah, to the twelve tribes who are in the dispersion: Greetings.
In the mean time most of the lost tribes of Yisrael has been spread all over the world, because the punishment of the House of Yisrael was only lifted about 10 years ago. Hence the large movement towards the belief in the Torah today. Most of the lost souls will be Christians, who desires to serve our Creator but is stuck in the hybrid faith of Christianity. And they need to be told.
@jesusislordsavior6343 Woodrow Wilson was a trash president, snob thumb his nose at you intellectual and a racist. That's where this idea came from.
I found this great video after searching for North American theology among Indigenous Christians. I attended the World Council of Churches mission and evangelism conference in Arusha Tanzania and as a North European I was immensely fascinated by this theology. Thank you for great words, God bless you!
Heavenbounding
Religion is fairytales for adults. Get out if you're able.
I don't understand why many of my kind surrendered to this Christian religion. It is not the true way of the indigenous people, I come from the Navajo Tribe. I see that the Old Ways should be taught to every indigenous child. Not the Christian way, they are sellouts and only seek profit and control. I hope that one day I will teach my children the Old Way as well teach them the language of my people.
You have every right to be angry at how white europeans used Christianity to persecute your people and countless of other indigenous individuals. What we did - and continue to do to you - was monstrous. It's a stain on our history forever, a great shame for which we must held accountable for, yet can never fully repay. We never have been morally superior to you or your people or any culture that's ever existed. In many ways I think your culture is in fact superior - especially in the sense of the respect you showed to the environment. Had we treated nature as responsibly and lovingly as yours did, we would not be facing the horror of climate change and a thousand thousand other environmental crises. What arrogant fools we were to act as if we had the right to destroy and abuse the infinitely precious masterpiece God had created! We had and have NO right to force our beliefs or our way of life upon you. I don't deserve to expect you to want to share my beliefs and I don't blame you if you hate me or others like me.
I only ask you to not assume that what Jesus taught was the same as the hateful lies and filth that my deeply disgraced people inflicted upon you. Please condemn us and not him. Jesus and his disciples didn't live in an age in which they could reap profit or control for spreading the gospel. They were persecuted, jailed, beaten and eventually killed in torturous ways for their beliefs. They were very much the underdogs and the oppressed. Of course, that isn't the case now. Today there more than a billion Christians. The conditions are sadly perfect for evil people to twist the gospel towards the most empty and horrible things - like becoming millionaire "faith healers" who take advantage of millions of vulnerable people and build megachurches that ally themselves with politicians and greedy cooperations. But before Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire the socioeconomic conditions for that kind of influence simply didn't exist. The early church weren't all perfect saints by any stretch, but they simply didn't have the power or means to win a cultural war until centuries after Jesus and his disciples died. If you want to understand why any indigenous people have any sympathy towards Christianity at all, I think it's because they have seen past our sins to the kind of person he was.
Please.. keep going on it. I finally see how Christianity is a profit and control. I am also Dińe.
@Tessa C still making excuses. And pretty arrogant to think that your version of spirituality is the right one. How about you people starting ACTING like the good people you pretend to be instead of trying to make the world corrupt.
@@lonewolfgamingplus379 I'm Peruvian (indigenous, spansish and afro roots) and I used to feel the same way. But once you get to know GOD through the bible, you realize that all of those who use God's name and word in vain do NOT represent him. God's son Jesus will say he did not even know them. We cannot blame god for what the colonizers did to the indigenous peoples. They were not true christians. They were on Satan's side. Christianity is not limited to whites. Christianity is for all those with a humble heart and a desire to draw close to god and heed his word, not the word of man. I pray you find the true creator of the universe, and let go of past traumas. Much love!
I see many very very close similarities of teaching on both Christianity and traditional Navajo teaching.
I think, people just need to take the time to look at Christianity as it says it is without the injection of white people and money people to put it bluntly, to understand why someone may move on to it, if one really does want to understand their thoughts.
I hope the Native American Christians look into the Eastern and Oriental Catholic churches. Their rites demonstrate this very idea. They did not abandon their cultures but let Jesus transform it and work through it. The European Ways are for Europeans but we forgot this. Meanwhile the Virgin of Guadalupe did more to convert the Aztec than any conquistador did but she came speaking Nahuatl and dressed and appearing as one of them.
Viva Cristo Rey
Very insightful and fair. Does not water down either Native American spiritual tradition or the message of Christ. Good job.
Jesus walked amongst the Native people way before the settlers came. WE have it in our story telling.
That sounds interesting would you please explain ?
There was a young boy who carried two birch bark scrolls, they had the way of life in them. He would teach the people. Well of course the young boy would be this Jewish man called Jesus or Yeshua. And the two scroll would be the old and new testament. Lot of our beliefs are similar with the Hebrew ways. He was said to be very different then most of the people cause he shone with light. Not just the natives but other cultures know of such a man. He came to them and taught the good life. He came to them by different names. The Bible calls him by His Hebrew name Yeshua. My ancestors say he was a prophet.
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and there shall be one fold. and one shepherd." John 10:16.
+Emily Bracklin Thank you for taking the time to reply back with an explanation
Emily Bracklin I also see no reason why we cannot say that the Great Peace Maker "who walked from the west to the east", and who taught and brought peace to the Five Nations of the Haudonesaunee (Iroquois Confederacy) could have been Jesus too.
Emily Bracklin that was put there by Christian brain washers. just like they inserted themselves into all cultures your elders or lost.don't be so blind.
So with the lense of God and the knowledge of the Holy Spirit, can anyone tell me what sage really does? Because people tell me it calms the spirits, but that’s shouldn’t be what we want, we should want to not live around that.
This is true they believe in God so we have to respect them
Music and dancing celebrate the gospel!
As a native to Zimbabwe growing up in a catholic Christian faith I did notice an attempt to westernize us native Christians. To police our singing with drums and stop the dancing....Jesus did not come to stop us from expressing our cultures if the things are not sin, we must repent of sinful ways but not lose the wholesome God glorifying aspects of our cultures.
Tatenda Pasipanodya
You put it excellently. Of course Roman Catholicism is well known for its hierarchical structure and authoritarian manner, so you may have been experiencing a bit of that. I've had the privilege of meeting a fair number of African Protestants here.
In my country the indigenous population were subjected to sever\e mistreatment at the hands of the State using (in that day) the churches as a medium of cultural conditioning. Children were removed from their families, forbidden to speak their native languages, and often abused physically.
You can imagine how resentment against the churches (especially RC, which played the largest role in the scheme) discredited the cause of Christ. So nowadays paganism and and racial/cultural chauvinism are extremely popular among indigenous people, especially the youth. Action begets reaction; evil begets evil.
Even so, one of the best Christian TV shows I know is run by indigenous people.
Yes so true! I see nothing wrong with worshipping with drums and your dancing. It is still a way of worshipling God!☺
God shows signs through everything even nature and the earth when he wants to tell you something or if you pray for an answer or a sign God may show it in little ways and when I go away from things and I go to church camp in the middle of nature I feel overwhelmed with the lords spirit and I feel connected to God being connected to nature and I have a lot of Native American in me and I want to honor my ancestors and the Lord I Love love
@yien "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." -Romans 2:28-29 "...whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea,“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE...’" -Romans 9:25
All I can think is the story of the prodigal son God the father giving a party for a back slidden son returning home celebrating God's good things
@iamthebest91 (3 of 3) salvation. In the "sin-stained" statement, He is acknowledging the SINS and WRONGDOINGS of those who said they were Christians yet committed those horrendous crimes against humanity yet embracing the theological belief that we ALL fall short of God's standards and need a Savior. Overall he is actually acting very opposite from being "brainwashed" but instead is advocating for retaining indigenous culture while embracing this Faith.
There was never a church in the US, until the 1900's at Azuza St. Great Spirit worked through the son of a slave, who was brought here against his will, to bring the beginning of the church in America. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Seymour
Great Spirit also worked through Wavoka, to bring the message of a coming millenial kingdom.
Starfire
I guess you're a real hardliner among Pentecostals, then.
I beg to differ. Do you know what makes a Christian?
It says in Romans 10:9
'that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'
It never says that one must speak in tongues. God has many names in Scripture, but 'Great Spirit' is not among them.
How does one make a church congregation? Does it not say that where two or three are gathered together in His Name, there He will be also?
Try not to make the bar higher than God has set it.
All things were created good the key is finding what is bad keep the good leave the bad.
Yahushua (jesus) said he came to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL, not specifically for Jews or the TRIBE OF YAHUDAH. Yahushua is the TORAH, so, if you are following him you are following TORAH
carol shoemaker as a christian I value the Torah unlike those pentecostals
@yien "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." -Galatians 3:26-28 hard to explain with a youtube character limit but the biblical principal is that "True Israel" are those who believe in the Truth of The Promise. The Native Americans were WRONGED no doubt (so were my peeps through slavery)...
Curious what natives think of the Mormons. They believe Jesus came to America as well
One problem in Christian work has always been people attempting do a Christian work with out any
empowerment and sensitivity from the Holy Spirit.
Is not creation in a “fallen” state?
I know it’s hard for natives to be Christian cause of what the Spaniards did with the missionaries but those where not real deciples of Christ like the apostles where but rather a added tradition a prideful one to be at that nit doctrine of the truth the deciples died preaching the gospel Jesus is real his power is real don’t compare the modern. Roman chathoilc church he does for all of us
Muchos indígenas hoy en día son católicos.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 Everything in the scripture is God's Word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live. The scriptures train God's servants to do all kinds of good deeds . 2Timothy 4:1-5 When Christ Jesus comes as King,he will be the judge of everyone,whether they are living or dead. So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message.Do it willingly, even if it isn't the popular thing to do.You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up,and when u instruct them,always be patient. The time is coming when people won't listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear. They will turn from the truth and eagerly listen to senseless stories. But you must stay calm and be willing to suffer. You must work hard to tell the good news and to do your job well.
Mary Ann Hernandez you quote bible verses that are a translation of a translation. you can't even read the original text and you call yourself Christian. lol my native people reject this Euro bran wash.
+Judo Johnny christianity isn't even a european religion, it's a middle eastern religion and their is still a lot of christian groups in the middle east
Mary Ann Hernandez + Faith is not a path to truth.
Judo Johnny
Exactly. Reject these middle eastern fairytales.
God bless you
Glad you guys were declared human beings. 👍
1493, Vatican(Mother of Harlots), describes christianity(Pagan, Greek,Roman mythology)by the Pope himself. Those who Live it know who it's for.
This is the conclusion I came too. As fare as English translation of the Bible King James Version is the one. I've also heard there is a Navajo Bible. I wonder if it is in accordance with original translation as I believe the KJV Bible to be.
Rebekah Craven You know we don't have the original manuscripts right? Gospels have been thrown out and it has been altered and mis-translated many times over. What about the forged epistles?
Rebekah Craven
Religion is just fairytales for adults.
Your comments are very sad. Do you even have a relationship with any of these men, or even talked to them, to understand them? Your language is offensive and judgmental and nothing that my aunties and uncles, my elders, would approve of, Christian or non-Christian. You have no idea of what their journey has been or continues to be. Keep your judgmental comments to yourself.
Jeanine LeBlanc practice what you preach miss better than you.
Judo Johnny + religion is a sham!
@@nativeatheist6422 Jesus loves you
@@skarro608 Thank you
So gloriously spoken! Love from Canada!
to blame the Jews means we have no love in us, For all have fallen sinned have come short of the glory of God.
If like to see a native interview a Jewish Messianic rabbi, of how to understand the origin of Jesus's teaching ms from 1st century Judaism
Isn't the "Great Spirit", really the "Great Spirit"? I believe he is.
Jeff;
Since you asked, the answer is no.
No gender like religious male deities.
Consider;
The Great Spirit is a mystery Force throughout Creation.
Of course, beleive what you will.
A-ho
God doesn't send just one messenger who speaks one language to one area at one time and place in history lol. That's why we have Islam, Buddisim, Hinduism, and all other forms or spirituality. We can't say that one form of spirituality is better than another because each form is tailor made for a certain peoples. God is infinite and expresses itself in infinite forms. Jesus came to save/appeal to a certain peoples not all peoples. That's why native peoples never had any contact with Jesus until the european man came. Why would God let our killers teach us about God. They killed about 95 percent of Natives Americans and the church justified it using the bible. The church also used the bible to justify the enslavement of Africans. Christianity is man made. Jesus Christ wasn't even his real name. Jesus didn't write anything down. His followers did about 40 years after he died. The New Testament was put together by European men in power; they picked what they wanted to add to the book and destroyed the rest. The New Testament is not in chronological order. When we translate the Hebrew Bible, we create a new religion. Spiritual texts are not made to be translated. Each peoples have their own message given to them from the creator. That's why native peoples have their own spirituality. Christianity is a modern-day religion it's an infant. Native American spirituality has been here longer. Not saying you can't learn anything good from the bible, I'm just saying the message wasn't for everyone because we are each given our own message.
All other forms of spirituality are different from Jesus. The other forms require you to do something to hopefully make your way into Heaven after death. Jesus claimed to be God. They killed him for it. He came back from the dead 3 days later and walked the earth for 40 days. People witnessed this. Why did Jesus allow them to kill him? Because We sin and the punishment for sin is death. Jesus didn’t want us to die and not go to Heaven. Jesus was sinless because he is God and he took our punishment of death. If we believe that Jesus is who he said he is, we can go to Heaven without any doubts.
@@nataliean4 didn't even listen once did you?
Christianity is more ancient than the earth. It's different from all other forms of spiritualities, my friend. It does not get deeper than the Death of God
@@foodforthought8308 Go study and try again. God can't die.
@@morningstar.eveningstar That's what makes Christianity so weirdly beautiful. The God of our universe Incarnated unto Jesus Christ. And chose died a horrific slave's death on the cross for our sins - out of pure love for you and me
@yien (post 3 of 3-look below) ...but cannot blame a PERFECT Creator for the IMPERFECT humanity who chose to pervert His names for their selfish gains, they too will also be subjected to judgement, the use of His name does not absolve them who do not repent from judgement ESPECIALLY when the bible has sooo much to say about justice and the oppressed.
Y'Shua is King of All
the roman thinking relies a work based salvation.
crazy rome
Yes,thats why they hate luther,...all about control
True salvation then
@iamthebest91 (1 of 3) I LOVE Native American people&that's just been something I've felt since I was a little girl, also being 4rm African descent I can definitely attest &see that Natives have been WRONGED no doubt. However, I submit 2 you that the term "sin-stained" was not a cultural one in this instance but a theological one. Even if you don't believe I think it's important to understand. The basic belief is that we have a sinful nature as humans &God comes to rectify that...
All here have a right to freedom of belief---and accordingly, contrasting/conflicting perspectives should be included.
These presentations collectively embrace a latter-day aviodance of the reality that Christianity, by its basic tenets, has been/is juxtaposed to the universally shared basics of indigenous spiritual traditions, as evidenced by the tragic historical record like that.
Many young Natives are now thinking for themselves without reliance on Christian scriptures to overcome centuries of brain washing and the continued peddling of this Jesus kool-aid.
It all still fleshes-out as the conflict between the eletist/heirarcy of Christianity with the "me" orientation verses the Native respect for "we" are related to all life-forms.
Continued colonialism and centuries of submission for survival render this contrary perspective very unpopular here, of course...and yet, many young Natives are seeking the traditional ways AND maintain a love for their Christain family members---often in spite of a witholding of mutual respect.
Many Thanks for including these comments.
A'ho❤
Sojourners the bible is a codex. native prophecy and legend should line up. Jesus was "caucasian" as is the Tribe of Judah (Tribe of Adam and Eve".
You dumb hypocrite jesus was black.. wake up.. negros are the original Jews not no white man.. african spirituality is the biblical religion
AMEN agree experience 😥 churches not fallow bible 😥 back to bible to GOD that simple
Interesting how many are searching and paying for natural meds which the Indigenous have known about all along and God created and left here for us! We have lost a lot by ignoring these facts.....Miigwetch!
Eternal truths stated in relative ways. All races, cultures, ethnic groups have aggressive people and gentle kind people. Including Europeans. The Roman Empire was a real problem to the fledgling
church. Christians were being killed by that aggressive Roman Empire element and when Constantine
became a Christian in a Roman culture, there was a change in the church. Many Europeans Christians went off to live in quiet monasteries. There is a lot of gray area in history , not all black and white. All American churches need each other. You are welcome to do vacation Bible school etc here in our communities. What a blessing that would be. The lack of understanding about the mystical and the
cosmos is a problem in the evangelical churches and I am not talking about a need to embrace
new age consciousness which is false teaching. Theology is lacking and the plain simple Doctrines of Christ and the supernatural power of His finished work on the cross.Indigenous( dead works VBS sad) Christians do not realize how much other
ethnic group Christians need them. Hear the voice of God a new. Thanks.
I'd love to hear the Native perspective of their indigenous spiritual point of view prior to the invasion/destruction by the Europeans. It's tragic how people were forced to adopt their oppressors beliefs and now happily do so. It's so beyond me, forcing your point of view on someone else - and to the point of destroying their culture, spiritual view, history - got to be the height of hubris and cruelty.
Mellow
1. Acts committed in ignorance or cruelty by alleged followers of Christ (whom we are not competent to judge) are NOT to be held to Christ's account. When disobedience to His commands and precepts leads to intense suffering, it is only proof that He was right all along.
2. You seem to imply that there is something worth preserving in pagan religion, that its suppression is somehow wrong. This is completely contrary to the Biblical view, whether expressed in Old or New Testament. It is NOT a question of European vs. non-European culture! Jesus stated in no uncertain terms:
(John 14:6) 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.'
Perhaps you see the world through a modern libertarian lens.
'Anything goes' so long as others are 'not hurt'. But suppose there were a kind of hurt even worse than physical hurt, or hurt feelings------------------eternal damnation, for instance.
3. Many traditional cultures have been acutely intolerant of other 'viewpoints'. Judeo-Christianity is not alone in this regard.
But if one really DOES know the one Way of salvation, surely it is NOT humane, but inhumane, to withhold knowledge of it from others!
At the very least, do not people deserve the opportunity to HEAR the Gospel, to having the OPTION of deciding what to do with it?
Quite frankly it is impossible to FORCE the mind of another to the point of conversion, because it is what lies in the INNERMOST HEART that defines a Christian:
'that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' (Romans 10:9)
@@jesusislordsavior6343 Save your fantasies for your own mind and stop spreading lies. I get you're too weak to take responsibility for yourself and have to depend on some fiction created a couple of thousand years ago. But realize, gratefully not everyone is so weak-minded and actually take responsibility for themselves and their own minds. So tragic. Organized religion has created havoc on this precious world. Get over it. Better yet APOLOGISE.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 love this
But what you just said is exactly what your doing too. If you don't like it don't be it they always say. You say they shouldn't be happy about it. Isn't that you forcing your beliefs. Let people believe and chose. It is not up to you how someone lives their life.
@@mellow5123
I don't feel any need to defend myself against your personal accusations. You may think of me however you wish. You honor me too much with your words.
But you are in grave danger when you stomp on the Bible, which even SECULAR HISTORIANS mine as a rich source of FACTUAL material. Bigot that you are, you have never done any HONEST investigation for yourself. You prefer to remain 'strong' in your bigotry and ignorance.
I will apologize for nothing. You are in the wrong, bucko.
jesus is the lion of judah
Who do you really follow?
Scriptures tells us to follow the example of our Messiah:
1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,
Followers of Jesus, the Greek Messiah:
Pagan Names For the Father and Son(Lord/Jesus); Sunday rest; Pagan feasts of Easter and Christmas; popes; nuns; holy water; sacraments; or any separation of Messiah’s body into a “priesthood” and “laity”; eat pork(unclean foods).
(None found In the Scripture)
Followers of Yahusha, the Hebrew Messiah:
Call the Father a Son by the Sacred Name Yahuah and Yahusha; 7th day Sabbath rest; Keep the Torah and Scriptural feasts of Lev 23; eat Kosher; circumcised and wear Tzitzits.
(all found in the Scripture)
Do you follow the belief ABOUT the Messiah or OF the Messiah?
In other words, if you follow Jesus, you received the one who came in his own name:
Joh 5:43 “I have come in My Father’s Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you would receive.
But if you Follow Messiah Yahusha, you will love Him and guard His Commands:
Joh 14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.
You are of the one you obey:
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
The error of the Christian church who believes they are the new chosen and replaced the Jews/Yahudim, here is our Father's answer to that:
Rev 2:9 “I know your works, and pressure, and poverty - yet you are rich - and the blasphemy of those who say they are Yahuḏim and are not, but are a congregation of Satan.
@@jacobtack1945 Lay off the crack there buddy
@@voidremoved Ok and you lay on the Torah, buddy
Are you guys okay? You seem to have trouble with communication or something?
No Jesus is not the lion of Judah. Jesus is the false messiah.
Lets look at the followers of Jesus, then we will see who he really is.
Scripture says we will be recognised by our fruits.
Mat 7:20 “So then, by their fruits you shall know them -
Scripture also says we must follow the example of our Messiah:
1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,
So let us see what the fruits of the Christian is, the follower of Jesus:
They call the Father by the pagan name “Lord”, and in Hebrew that Means “Ba’al”. They call the Messiah by the pagan name Jesus, the Letter “J” did not exist more than 500 years ago. Thus can not be the name of the Messiah.
They rest on Sunday, the day of the sun worshipper. They celebrate the pagan feasts of Christmas, Easter and other. They eat unclean food, and is uncircumcised.
NONE of the above our Hebrew Messiah of the Bible did.
So what did our Messiah Yahusha of the Bible set as an example?
He called the Father by His Sacred Hebrew Name YHWH(יהוה), pronounced Yahuah. And He was called Yahusha, meaning “Yahuah Saves”.
He rested on the 7th day Sabbath.
He kept the Scriptural feasts of Lev 23(Yahuah’s Redemption plan).
He ate Kosher, was circumcised and wore Tzitzits.
And the church does none of the above example Yahusha (יהושע) gave us.
So by their fruits it shows, they received the one who came in his own name “Jesus”:
Joh 5:43 “I have come in My Father’s Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you would receive.
Breaking every commandment applicable to Yahuah and His Son.
The conclusion is that our Messiah warned that you will receive the one who comes in his own name Jesus.
Yahusha is the lion of Yahudah/Judah
right on, God is Jewish~ ! shalom
Eat jesus says to peter
When christians converted your ancestors they literally told them to forget who they were....
Keep in mind though, that the Christians that committed such horrendous acts were basically wolves in sheep's clothing. We can't hold all Christians accountable for what has happened to Native Americans, that's an ignorant way to be looking at all this. I can elaborate more on this but I'll just leave it at that. P.s I'm not coming for you, I'm just stating something that should be considered when speaking on this specific topic. Don't you think?
@@JesusOwns yes thank you!! It blows my mind ppl think true followers of Christ condone those horrible acts.
U mean forget Our great Culture ??? You are such a Racist Protestant head
Aren't you doing the same? Forget your Christian faith your grandparents taught?
The gospel of the grace of God!
yep, they blaspeme. "houses of worship" were "locked down" before they forsook Jesus's passover .. guess what.. NOBODY IS SAVED CEPT FOR JEHOVAHS [YaHoWaH] ELECT ANOINTED AND CHOSEN.. now were sinners "again" .. lets talk like humans
Our ancestors knew the bible & jesus according to their teachings sharing with on us 🙏
I not considered any higher with disabilities treated like a sub human. Not how GOD sees us
This will always be insane to me. The disconnect, not understanding colonization. If your Native and your Christian then you gave up your culture.
you sound racist
That is a fundamental misunderstanding of true Christianity and it's vision of "all tribes, tounges, and nations" included in Union with God
@@foodforthought8308 True Christianity?
@babytony77 Yea, stripped from its Western hijacking and abuses committed in its name
Jesus never existed. Don't fall for the evil Christianity story. There is only the great spirit. Don't try to blend in.
J. Mcfarland;
Thanks for the honesty supported by the tragic historical record. Now, here in the aftermath of the shooting/murdering in the name of Jesus, these latter-day Native opportunists peddle Christian kool-aid with a little different flavor of Native celebrity.
Like we have not witnessed Christianity's lack of common sense, i.e., the Earth is round---not flat, and orbits the Sun---not Rome.
We are all humans---not only those who "know Jesus."
These latter-day Native evangelists are popular with the well established Christian missionary complex invested in securing colonialism's control in concert with the "In God We Trust" government.
Let us be strong in the truth.
A-ho
@j.c.eaglesmith4259 my friend, you are wrong. Jesus Christ is Lord of the Cosmos
This is so full of crap. Jesus was only a middle man, a prophet nothing more.
One day you will find out the truth hopefully it will be sooner before it will be to late
Read the bible. Much love.
@@peacegirlusa4761 I have known the truth most of my life and it is not in any religion . You need to open your eyes to what is real and you will not find it in a book.
@@lisette1976 Been there , done that.
@@peacegirlusa4761 There is nothing wrong with being a Christian. It is just that it is not for everyone. Some people need it and some don't. I spent 2 years in a catholic boarding school when i was a boy, like everything else there was good christians and bad ones.live and let live.
Sell out!
gRosh08 How? Christianity is a middle-eastern religion. So, all white Christians are sellouts by that same logic. Christianity is a universal hope in the Lord, not a tool for power. Jesus ate with prostitutes and people considered 'unholy' during the time period. He also talked to people from different ethnic groups, taking heat from the Jews during that time. Jesus isn't for a certain people, but for everyone. The issue is that people like you put their race before anything else. Jesus, for Christians, is the first. I hope you can put this pride behind you and open your eyes.
Let's be honest most people of color wouldn't have to "put their race before anything else" if white Christians weren't always trying to use Christianity as a means of oppressing non-whites. That's the real issue.
Destiney Love; I am a white Christian. Are you implying that I use my faith in Christ to oppress non-whites?
ZaqueHunzahua; I think the issue here is that people resentful of the dark history of reformation, which actually murdered actual Christians on the basis of their disagreement with mainstream theology, fail to realize that generalizations don't really teach us anything. It isn't a coincidence to me that Christ himself was murdered for being the founder of ideas that ruin the ruling class of ANY religion, which the argument could be made that Christ himself is the antithesis of religion. Therefore, my relationship with Christ negates any affiliation with religion and should not put me in a category that assumes I am with the oppressor. You say my "religion does it." Well, "my religion" would have burned me at the stake a few hundred years ago for disagreeing with "it." Does this have anything to do with race? Of course not. I really wish people would stop generalizing everything. It's unhealthy for societal growth. By generalizing whites and lumping me with the idea that whites are oppressive, inherently, you are suggesting that I should lump other races for other things (that goes for the other comment made, not yours). So it actually wouldn't be wrong to judge one person based on their skin color, according to the ideas that whites are so generalized. Fortunately for me, I was raised to think differently than this. Obviously, the problem of racial bigotry will not go away, and it isn't limited to white people.
Sean Michael I honestly don't know if you do, and to what to what extent you do it. Most of them are oppressive, though. Whether it be intentionally or not. Any examination of history in the new world would show that most, if not all, white Christians have and still do try to oppress non-whites.