I have owned both. Having grown up with BMW, with various GS's, my bias was firmly fixed, but, after riding the Honda, i was blown away by the everyday practicality. The AT DCT is a phenomenal bike - nimble, easy to ride, inexpensive. Just love it!
Both great machines, but due to overall running cost / reliability and off-road capability the Africa Twin is a no brainer. Which is why I went out and bought one 👍🏼👍🏼
@@takeabow2774 If you weren’t being ironic... Honda parts are cheaper Nissin brakes are almost as good as Brembos but much cheaper to replace Honda makes the most reliable engines across the board, no debate- you can have a debate, but pressure washers and jets come with Honda engines. Honda is half the price, and then on top of that, it’s half the price to repair, so more money in the bank= more reliability. Honda always gives its engines the perfect amount of power with longevity in line. Honda’s transmissions are gold. DCT or not. BMW makes very nice bikes, but the hands down buy if money is a factor is the Twin.
@@adammfharris everything you just listed is down to cost. HOnda parts are cheaper yes i agree. But they are not more reliable. I am only talking about longevity.
I had an old 1150 Adventure which I loved and have just picked up a DCT Africa Twin. I've ridden both off road and done the respective courses in Wales - no doubt the GS is surprisingly capable. Emphasis on surprising, it's a monster but in the right hands with decent tyres can do some improbably stuff off road. The AT is an entirely different prospect. Feels totally at home off road and even amateurs like me start to look good. I think the review nails it - if you are really after a road bike that looks the part with no intention of taking it anywhere further than the hard shoulder then the GS is a great (albeit pricey) choice. If you want a bike you can genuinely ride anywhere buy the AT and use the money saved for those big trips.
Fuel range is the killer for me. I enjoy continental touring with dodgy roads and destinations chucked in where the thought of a fuel stop is the last thing on your mind. 150ish before the light coming on just doesnt cut it. Used to have a tiger XC that was bloody good fun off road and can imagine the AT being similar.
gregtriumphrat I worried about that too but I've been testing the range and reserve and it gives 220+ with a litre left in the tank. Today on the way back from the NEC the light came on at 180, I filled up, 15l, so another 3l and 40+ miles? That's good enough for me.
K have the black DCT AT and do about 400 KM per tank. In Europe, that is more than enough. If you want to travel the world, this is still better that carrying around the Adventes 43 Liters of fuel. (Top weight) I have done some days in the field with smaller enduro machines and it is incredible what you can do with the AT. My Limits on this bike offroad are in my head, not the bike itself. The DCT works like a charm, and you just have to find the correct setting. (Usually i do S1, S3 offroad with the G button on) Just perfeckt, could not do better myself..
The Adventure has 30 liters of fuel, adding 11 kg over the AT. Ridden both, two different dimensions bikes and BMW certainly should rethink protection.
Combination of price and reliability ratings make it the Africa Twin for me. Also they're pretty easy to find 2 year old ones used here in the states for a bit under $10,000
The overwhelming message here is: "Don't let Simon Greenacre your motorcycle!". Simon went two for two on crashing an off-road motorcycle on a road. The road wasn't paved, but it was definitely a road.
It's not the limit of the GS but of the tires. If you wanna go off-road do it with proper tires and you will find your limits way earlier than those of the bike. Especially once the pressure is reduced.
I have told people these GS bikes are WAY too vulnerable. FWIW CycleWorld magazine also holed the head of a R1200GS test bike not once but twice. Those heavy expensive crash bars won't save you. Honestly the flat opposed cylinder design is just about the most stupid possible engine configuration for a serious off-road bike. I've ridden the GS extensively, and I'd like the bike. But overall, it is too big, too heavy, has too high a center of gravity, and is way too expensive. In addition, the windscreen really doesn't work particularly well. I like the shaft drive on the BMW but otherwise I'd take the Honda.
I watched a RUclips comparison video of all the large Adventure Bikes recently. In that particular comparison test, it was the Honda African Twin that took a tumble that caused major damage to the engine. I don't think there is motorcycle engine made that won't suffer serious engine damage if the bike falls and slides in a certain manner.
In Italy we say: "this is the dentist's motorcycle" The BMW is an overpriced, unreliable POS that god forbid you drop it while you're in some "adventure" and you go home on foot.
Definitely always wondered why putting piston heads as the bump stops on a bike made sense to bmw. Boxer design is a good engine but not for bikes that will be dropped. Can kill a very expensive bike too easily. Get a cruiser instead.
Good summary. The GS looks like a 75/25 road/dirt bike (only capable MX riders should try & ride it in mud and sand), while the Africa Twin looks like a 60/40 road/dirt bike (light enough to do more off-road work).
The Africa Twin ist not a s light as it might seems. 235 kg with dct. BMW GSA is just 10 kg more. But you are right, the Africa Twin is far better off road compared to the GSA.
Good no nonsense comparison. Scary the engine damage to the BMW even with crash bars fitted, obviously unlucky hitting a rock or similar. I enjoy Steve's reviews, he is so dry it makes me laugh which is what we need more of.
As someone who's had 3 years of rider experience on the DCT, it's never going to get it right on it's own all the time. That is why the manual mode toggle switch exists, allowing you full control over the DCT. I've not had a chance to try the AT because stock of that model is damn near at extinction levels in the US. My preferred dealer kept telling me "soon" for the last year plus on when floor models would exist (they won't allow test rides anyhow). I'm not going to even contemplate purchasing a bike I can't sit on at least before mentioning the prospects of money. So anyhoo, manual plus thumb shifters gives you the gear choice flexibility that you were missing. I noticed many riders that review this bike don't take the time to familiarize themselves with it, particularly the functions of the DCT. What the DCT can offer you is stall-free bomb proof shifting experience in almost every scenario if you take the time to learn it.
Wow, 3k difference in price, that for me is a big deciding factor. But in all fairness how about a review between the Honda Africa Twin VS Yamaha Super Tenere?
Im a Multistrada Fan!! Sorry! I dont hate these two bikes though! And Obviously the guy thats Talking through this video is a complete GS Fan, He sure did give alot more Pros on the GS versus the Africa Twin! Im Sorry, But if you plan on doing Both Dirt and Street Riding, 50/50, Then the Africa Twin IS The BEST Bike For You! And The DCT Clutch on the street is way more capable than this guy made it seem like!!!! You have to get use to it, figure it out, and then you start feeling like cruising with a real clutch.... With the benifit of no clutch or Auto! Ive seen Multiple Reviews on the Honda And Every ONE Of them, The People start off the Review saying I don't like not having a clutch or Why is this bikes DCT Shifting and So on, And Throughout the review they would figure out how the DCT worked and by the end of there video review They were In LOVE With The Honda Africa Twin AND Its DCT Clutch!!! EVERY REVIEW Ive Seen!!! There probably are Bad Reviews on RUclips, But I bet they didn't get enough seat time on the bike to figure it out!!!! Also, I dont know if you all Heard The Africa Twin With A Full Exaust On It, But God DAMN That Motor Sounds good To!! Sounds like a V-Twin But ALOT Smoother sounding on our Ears, I Think it sounds Alot Tougher Than the GS Boxer Sound... Which is actually my favorite Bike Motor, The Boxers from BMW. Sorry For The Long Comment here Guys, Just had to put some Truth in this video!!!!!!!!!
Why oh why all the comparisons between the AT and the 1200GS? The AT is much closer to the 800GS. 21" front wheels, weight, power, engine configuration and shape. Sure the AT has 14 more hp than the 800GS, but I bet you didn't use those 14 last horses in this test.
Yea it's getting silly now, everyone seems to be comparing these two bikes when the only thing they have in common is sales figures! The GS should be compared with the CrossTourer.....
If they would compare to GS800 the AT would win the big Cup. This bike is definitely better in all aspects compared to the GS800.. Checked both of them myself.
The AT is sort of in between the two... so tough to compare but I agree it's closer to the 800. Heavier and with more power... but closer. IMO it doesn't compare well to the big ADV bikes unless you downplay typical Big ADV bike criteria and emphasize typical mid-weight ADV bike criteria.
To be able to say BMW is better than Honda. :D The guy is totally biased. And "testing" the bikes on 1/4 mile stretch and three puddles all over again?!? Really? What kind the test is that? :D
Well I can't say you've done an apples to oranges comparison... but it IS a bit of an "on road biased apple" to "off road biased apple" comparison. These bikes don't really compete as much as some might think. Offroad the AT is far and away the better of the two (it's competition is KTM, the smaller BMW 800 GS and maybe some Japanese dual sport's), Onroad the GS/GSA is far and away the better of the two (it's competition is Ducati, Triumph, and the KTM SA)
For all those skeptical of a design that has been around for 90+ years and has proven itself around the world through war and peace for so many decades: A simple pair of aluminum cylinder head covers, available from BMW and many aftermarket suppliers, protects the 1200 GS cylinder heads ...If you take any bike offroad, spec it with the appropriate protection when, or after you buy it, and prepare it for a fall, because it's inevitable. It really is heavy, no doubt, but the CoG is very low. I suspect many of those who criticize it have never ridden one.
Great review illustrating the core question facing anybody looking to purchase an ADV (or even a dual-purpose) motorcycle. Do I want more of a street, or trail, bike?
Both great bikes....but the GS has the proven history that its a 'go anywhere' ADV bike. That said the AT has a bright future. Full disclosure I'm on my 5th GS, I've ridden them all over Europe, North Africa and the US.
"The Gs has the proven history..." First history doesn't work with machines, and second, in case you want to believe in that "history" everybody knows what an Africa Twin is and they know it because they where almost imposible to break where as the Gs has always been more on the limit as most BMW from the 80s to now (Honda is about 4 times more reliable in their bikes than BMW and BMW only makes expensive bikes). You say you're on your 5Gs, how many km do you ride on each one?? Because that kind of bike has to be able to reach at least 200000km before having to change them. I don't get why people compare this two bikes so much, they have nothing in common, the F800Gs is an adventure bike but the 1200 is more of a road bike, it's to big to ride it hard offroad. The africa twin is the opposite, it's a much lighter hard style adventure bike and it's oviously worst on road.
I don't disagree but if you're looking at reliability, ease and cost of repair no matter where you are, I would put a KLR 650 on the front row. It's not a fancy bike by all means, but it gets the job done adequately.
Wow You can go anywhere with any bike... buhahaha Check the Africa Twin History if you want one.. you will be surprised.. The old AT for an average adventurer.. like 95% of these days are.. is unbreakeble.. and easy to fix anywhere anytime.. try to fix a BMW with all that electronic shit on it.. common.. BMW is a good bike.. but not as good as the BRAND make it..You pay the big money on the BRAND not on the bike.. let's be onest.
+Jean-Michel Bourdon. Yeah!! Well said and done, Klr650s the right pick and it will do both on/off road with slightly greater ease and much more efficiently.
Impressive. I've ridden a 12GS 84000km on and off road and an HP2 50000 km mainly off road and never holed a cylinder head. Kudos. Great review thx. I'd get the AT similar power to first gen 12GS and HP2 at a lower price pt and equal or better reliability. What's not to like.
Gs has a big boxer that bulges out, the bike is huge, too expensive, crash bars are useless, AT gives you the option of automatic dual clutch transmission, lighter, easier, better in the dirt, the sound has so much character, fun loving ride, gorgeous paint job, has a face and an expression, biggest dealer network, cheaper parts. It's a no brainer.
For long on road touring, I use my Pan European. For touring involving off-road trails, I use my Africa Twin. A GS is too compromised off-road to be a one-bike-fits-all solution. And both my Honda's cost me 15600€ which is still cheaper than one second hand GS!! I had change to spare!
After watching Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman on big damn heavy machines, I bet they would have appreciated picking up something lighter as well as moving them out of position they stuck them in. Heavy is good, provided you aren't stuck, or put it on the ground. Once either of those apply extra weight is awful to deal with.
Thanks, good comparison review - I've always liked BMW boxer engine bikes, but this test highlights the obvious vulnerability of the flat twin cylinders jutting out sideways. The Honda features state-of-the-art innovation in the DCT system combined with a slimmer, lighter design - much more practical for trail use.
Comparing the the numbers of bikes sold until the end of March does not tell much. GSA is an couple of years old model and the sale is consistent, AT was a new model and the customers were waiting for it for some months, then bought when they were available. It will be interesting to see and compare the numbers at the end of the year.
Haven't ridden Africa Twin yet, but based on my short test ride with GSA LC and having not that much experience of riding mc in general, I wouldn't consider myself being capable to deal with GSA in off-road conditions. It was brilliant bike on the road and despite its size and my little experience I felt safe on it all the time, but for off road it is just too heavy or you need to be quite good rider, I just cant' imagine who will be capable to pick it up in the sand alone. With full tank and some panniers with some cargo it is close to 300kg I think. I think side guards on GSA are protecting the body of it, not the boxer engine and you need to have another protection on the engine to avoid this type of problems.
there's a guy called “wheelie adventurous“ on RUclips and Facebook. he has done more than 32.000km through Africa on an R1200GSA, had 100+ Offroad-drops and 0 breakdowns! :D
I believe the Honda AT's dct learns the riding characteristics of the rider and makes adjustments. If you are more aggressive with the throttle it will mimic you. You can get a Honda with some accessories for about 7K less. Honda's have a long reputation as being reliable and that you can throw a stick in any direction and hit a Honda dealer, not the case with BMW or a KTM. Not to mention that the parts and overall service is cheaper than the BMW, I choose the Honda AT.
THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT REVIEW,unlucky Simon, the BMW salesman tells me the lower crash bars are really only offering protection should you drop the bike.He says at any speed above 10 mph, the lower ones are not likely to prevent damage.
Alt-Rider crash bars would have solved the problem. The Africa Twin is a good machine but, it sits far too high, no cruise, and no shaft drive. The automatic transmission however is great.
To save you time, i can sum it all up to you. If you can buy or afford the BMW then buy it. But if you want cheap, reliable and jack of all trade; buy the Honda. Price wise, Honda is the buck for buck while BMW have the luxury which you have to pay for. Also, if you're less than 6 feet tall and a small person, don't buy the BMW. It's heavy as fuck and hard to pick up when drop.
well had an extended test ride on the AT today both versions. For the 99% of my riding the AT isnt a patch on the GSA. It was very good but comparatively it lacked everywhere. If i was serious about off road i'd be buying an old hack.
Conclusions if you have money and want adventure by foot buy gs ,if you want adventure and come back and save money honda, love my crosstourer even more after this review .
I have always dreamed about riding a big BMW. Just havent had a chance. Used to ride big heavy cruiser bikes and a couple 1994 GSXR1100's. Have ridden for 35 year with some road racing thrown in for fun. Im very capable rider. Just that big BMW has me apprehensive about buying one. Love the looks and power and everything about it but its weight. Currently only ride my 2011 DRZ400S transformed into a lightweight ADV bike. I want a big GS, but just not sure its me, with being 5'8" tall with a 30 inch inseam. Not sure if i could rangle it around. And yes i know of the tiny girls that ride these with success. But dont have that much free time and money for the proper training. If the new bike does not come out by next summer(KTM 490 Adventure) i will be taking a hard look at a used 2015 or so 1200. So time will tell.
Overweight street bike with "adv" fairings vs a lighter (still big offroad) bike with closer offroaf geometry and a true offroad front wheel. Its a no brainer. If you want a road toruing bike get the beemer, if you want a more adv bike get the honda, if you want a real adventurous bike, get neither, both too heavy
@@brettw1518 not saying it's not capable, 90% is the rider. That still doesnt mean its the best bike design possible. If you look at adv bikes as mostly highway touring, with bling and comfort as priority and are willing to take a deep penalty off road (huge heavy bikes, very complex, overly so, electronics, drops causing thousands in broken parts and also lifting one off the side of a cliff or knee deep in mud).. then fine, enjoy your bike. The reality is that the trend is for manufacturers to marketed "starbucks riders" and sold them what are essentially ROAD BIKES with dakar rally aspirations for $$$$. Truth is that a bike around 500 to 700cc is more than enough grunt to ride highways for days on end, faster than 99% of cars and keeping their weight down (by almost half in some cases) they gain *immensely* offroad. Making them more 50/50 bikes. More is less in this case..
It’s it a GS or a GSA ? I drove both the Africa Twin and the GS and on road I prefer the BMW everyday : better engine , better protection, better confort, better everything . The DCT box is nice but specially in sports mode it’s too aggressive and unsets the riding too much ... all and all for people who just want to keep going when the road ends, the GS is a much more complete bike
For normal use the r1200gs is far better. This is the reason for i've just bought the new r1200gs rallye 2018. The africa twin remains a good bike but for long journey and tarmac it simply can't reach the GS.
had the same crash bar issues on my old oil GS-A ... when i switched to the water version, i also got the extra Touratech linkage for the back of the OEM crash bar ... way more stable regarding punches (especially from the front): touratech-usa.com/Store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-BMW-R1200GS-ADV-2013-2016-Water-Cooled no clue why this doesn't come, per default, from BMW .??
I think this comparison DOES make sense! I was actually deciding between those two bikes, but after having an 800GS I wanted more power and the Africa Twin does not have significant more. The crash bars of the R1200GSA aren't useless but you have to add cylinder protection for off-road use (offered by multiple brands). The Africa twin comes without any crash bars... you also have to add stuff for off-road use.
+Christopher M. That bulged outwards flat twin GS1200cc engine looks undoubtedly so vulnerable on dual sports m/cycles especially when doing serious off roads, where as the slimmer lighter AT1000cc parallel twin engine on the other hand looks so well suited for both sports, Speaking of power... the AT has 200cc less than the GS and it's also quite clear it's not that much of a difference comparison in both handling and performance, We shall see in the not so distant future when Honda will add those extra cc's and hopefully squeeze in some extra HorsePower which you're so much craving for.
Surely tyres are key here. Confess to having 1150gs and 1200gsa, only ever off road on grass on campsites, but both have proven totally reliable. 1150 got me home having been taken out by a round hay bale dropped off a tractor on a hill....and it was a bit bent😬ps both 10 years old when purchased.
Not sure what this review is trying to achieve, AT is aimed more at a standard GS not the GSA. On paper the AT is more in the 800cc market, and if you are going on a RTW trip where you are looking for a lot of off-road if you had any brains you use a KLR or 690. I can also testify that other crash bars work with a 60ish mph high side.
Maintenance costs are also important. Bmw is not on the medium - low budget brands :P. This 2 bikes in my opinion are made for different market segments.
The damage to the BMW boxer engine in a 15 mph drop is why the BMW is not a true adventure bike. Having critical cylinder heads sticking out the side and low down is just wrong. It's wrong for foot work and it's wrong for riding in tricky terrain when you can drop the bike. The GS format just does not have enough dirt bike ability and ergonomics. Honda is state of the art right now.
I’ve always had a problem with the crash bars in the BMW. The engine STICKS OUT through the bottom! That corner of the engine IS your crash bar! Oh well, at least most GS owners won’t leave the pavement long enough for that to likely happen, and a crash on the pavement usually ruins the whole bike anyways.
For me that is the main reason i do not buy a GS.. It can hapend once and you have to pay at least half the price a GS cost to fix it... no sir.. This VIDEO in my opinion is made just for marketing porpouses and nothing else.. or is made by a guy/guys... that is/are fan/fans BMW.. and to blinds to see the major diferences between these 2 bikes.
Very good post I don't know why you wore talking so quickly though sounded like you wore paying for the air time! The GS like you say is a great tourer road bike and some and I say some guys have the ability to conquer off road but for the majority that's where all the trouble starts. People that own these behemoths only take them off road once, there just to heavy. Look at Yuan McGregor how many times did he fall off his bike countless times but his mate that was more of a accomplished rider hardly none. For me the thrill of riding has always been on the road. I owned a 2012 Ducati Multistrada and for a on road bike it was fantastic, I took it off road but there wasn't the fun factor in it for me. Undoubtedly it would be the same for the GS. Funny enough I have been off the bikes for 3 years and was looking again at the new Ducati Multistrada and the very new GS relley which are about the same money here in Australia. Both bikes are very capable of going down the odd dirt road but it is the road where these bikes shine. Anyway great post and thanks.
Nice short test, a bit fast in concluding? First, does this bike have original crash bars? Current BMW crash bars look different and protect the cylinder where this damage happened with one bar running right across the outside of the boxer engine with further bars below, not just one bar above and one below as in this film (none across). Some offer an improvement still: touratech-usa.com/Store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-BMW-R1200GS-ADV-2013-2016-Water-Cooled
For a trip down town mongolia l would have chosen the AT without blinking. Not the DCT but he simplest one. Keep it basic and you get home. Thise GS's are way to advance to tape together in the middle of no where.
IMO the Africa Twin, while more dirt capable than the GS... is still too heavy to really deliver on your "ends of the world without a chase vehicle" side of the comparison. It doesn't compete well with the big ADV bikes (which put an emphasis on distance touring capability) and it doesn't compare favorably with the light to mid-weight 400-800cc DS/ADV bikes which have better offroad capability. That's not to say the AT isn't a good bike... it's a very good bike at a good price point (what... many thousands cheaper than the BMW, especially properly kitted) so owners have nothing to apologize for... it's just that having ridden MANY large ADV bikes I find myself wondering what the niche is that the AT is filling (I want a big ADV bike but don't want to spend $23,000?). I've done many thousands of miles of touring off-tarmac (generally good quality dirt roads... occasionally roads in poor shape like the one in this video) on my Tiger, rented GS's... and my Multistrada (which is a fair bit lighter than the Africa Twin's portly 505'ish lbs)... the GS with it's low CG is quite pleasant on dirt roads, but if the ride is going to be primarily dirt, I'd much rather be on a DR or dual sport husky - a lot more fun... a lot better able to soak up abuse. Regarding sales... we'll see how well it's selling in a couple years, introduction year sales likely aren't telling us much.
David Kuhn it's niche is that it is a one size fits all bike. sure it does not do touring as good as the big boys, sure it does not do off road as good as a 450cc dirt bike, but it sure does them good enough for the average consumer. this bike is a compromise.
David Kuhn it's niche is that it is a one size fits all bike. sure it does not do touring as good as the big boys, sure it does not do off road as good as a 450cc dirt bike, but it sure does them good enough for the average consumer. this bike is a compromise.
I wouldn't hesitate to say the Africa twin would be way more reliable than the gs. I have just heard way to many bmw horror stories to even consider anything bmw.
why on earth would anyone take a boxer off the pavement and not have a cylinder head cover? besides, like @tinnedspicedham said, the AT is really more comparable to an 800GS, get the right bike for the job guys.
This video has no point at all.. These bikes are at two different segments of the market. Rivals of BMW R1200GS are KTMs 1190 and 1290, may be even Ducati Multistrada 1200. Honda, no matter 1000cc engine, is mid range bike. BMW F800GS, KTM 1090, Triumph Tiger 800...
True, but I have seen couple of guys falling off of a 1200gs and it's super scary. I wish bmw changed their design language and made it more 'Dakar'ish.
Honda African Twin about $13K USD vs BMW R1200GS about $19K USD... As usual - Pay more, Get more, or "You get what you pay for"... Rating in this Test seem obviously biased by the narrator's choice of language.
As an owner of both bikes I must admit. Both are great, but completty diffrend. In short AT is better off road, GS on long dis. But u can do oposittive ass well...
As far as I can see the crash bars on this particular GS was good as they come. It covers all the vital parts. In the end no bar will ever guarantee full protection. I mean what good would be the crash bar of that AT? It only covers plastic body work. I've seen a review of the AT in which they dropped the bike, hitting a root, breaking the engine case… shit happens. I mean that is why for the AT you can buy a crash bar that actually cover the engine case: europe.outbackmotortek.com/product/honda-africa-twin-1000-engine-case-guard/ I’m not saying GS is better. I have no idea since I’ve never driven any of these bikes. But your comment about the crash bar seems rather unwarranted since no crash bar will protect from everything. All there needs to be is rock or root going between the gaps and done… Your friend obviously did not only hit the crash bars. Everyone can see the scratch marks on the cylinder head. Something went in between.
How many engine casings are going to break before something it done with this terrible design. It's a real weakness to the gs. No engine casing should be a crash bar! And those elephant ears are the first thing to hit the road.....or anything else.
Nice video but I'm not sure it's an appropriate comparison? Maybe I'm too cautious but I will only take my GSA off road with knobblies on. I find intermediates simply aren't good enough, especially for slippery trails. As for the GSA performance off road, I often can't believe where mine has taken me and if it had a true crawler gear, it would be even better. I'm sure the Africa Twin is great - on the Capital Coast ride [ruclips.net/video/mSrOXIiO0kc/видео.html], I was followed by a 2-up old AT and it/they did very well. Only disadvantage with GSA is the weight in that on difficult trails you need help to get out of trouble.....but the GSA is a dream on the long ride home :)
I have owned both. Having grown up with BMW, with various GS's, my bias was firmly fixed, but, after riding the Honda, i was blown away by the everyday practicality. The AT DCT is a phenomenal bike - nimble, easy to ride, inexpensive. Just love it!
Both great machines, but due to overall running cost / reliability and off-road capability the Africa Twin is a no brainer. Which is why I went out and bought one 👍🏼👍🏼
Reliability? I like both bikes but in what regard would the gs be less reliable? Thats nonsense
@@takeabow2774 Honda reliability vs BMW? Are you kidding?
@Take ABow you can’t be serious
@@takeabow2774 If you weren’t being ironic...
Honda parts are cheaper
Nissin brakes are almost as good as Brembos but much cheaper to replace
Honda makes the most reliable engines across the board, no debate- you can have a debate, but pressure washers and jets come with Honda engines.
Honda is half the price, and then on top of that, it’s half the price to repair, so more money in the bank= more reliability.
Honda always gives its engines the perfect amount of power with longevity in line.
Honda’s transmissions are gold. DCT or not.
BMW makes very nice bikes, but the hands down buy if money is a factor is the Twin.
@@adammfharris everything you just listed is down to cost. HOnda parts are cheaper yes i agree. But they are not more reliable. I am only talking about longevity.
I had an old 1150 Adventure which I loved and have just picked up a DCT Africa Twin. I've ridden both off road and done the respective courses in Wales - no doubt the GS is surprisingly capable. Emphasis on surprising, it's a monster but in the right hands with decent tyres can do some improbably stuff off road. The AT is an entirely different prospect. Feels totally at home off road and even amateurs like me start to look good. I think the review nails it - if you are really after a road bike that looks the part with no intention of taking it anywhere further than the hard shoulder then the GS is a great (albeit pricey) choice. If you want a bike you can genuinely ride anywhere buy the AT and use the money saved for those big trips.
Fuel range is the killer for me. I enjoy continental touring with dodgy roads and destinations chucked in where the thought of a fuel stop is the last thing on your mind. 150ish before the light coming on just doesnt cut it. Used to have a tiger XC that was bloody good fun off road and can imagine the AT being similar.
gregtriumphrat I worried about that too but I've been testing the range and reserve and it gives 220+ with a litre left in the tank. Today on the way back from the NEC the light came on at 180, I filled up, 15l, so another 3l and 40+ miles? That's good enough for me.
K have the black DCT AT and do about 400 KM per tank. In Europe, that is more than enough. If you want to travel the world, this is still better that carrying around the Adventes 43 Liters of fuel. (Top weight) I have done some days in the field with smaller enduro machines and it is incredible what you can do with the AT. My Limits on this bike offroad are in my head, not the bike itself. The DCT works like a charm, and you just have to find the correct setting. (Usually i do S1, S3 offroad with the G button on) Just perfeckt, could not do better myself..
The Adventure has 30 liters of fuel, adding 11 kg over the AT. Ridden both, two different dimensions bikes and BMW certainly should rethink protection.
Combination of price and reliability ratings make it the Africa Twin for me. Also they're pretty easy to find 2 year old ones used here in the states for a bit under $10,000
Great review. I like the style of fast paced storytelling instead of repetitive fact sheet rapid fire by so many journalists. Keep up the good work.
The overwhelming message here is: "Don't let Simon Greenacre your motorcycle!". Simon went two for two on crashing an off-road motorcycle on a road. The road wasn't paved, but it was definitely a road.
Agreed! Simon sucks at biking. He crashed both bikes, 1 right after the other.
RTW choice for me would be the Africa twin,
It's not the limit of the GS but of the tires. If you wanna go off-road do it with proper tires and you will find your limits way earlier than those of the bike. Especially once the pressure is reduced.
I have told people these GS bikes are WAY too vulnerable. FWIW CycleWorld magazine also holed the head of a R1200GS test bike not once but twice. Those heavy expensive crash bars won't save you. Honestly the flat opposed cylinder design is just about the most stupid possible engine configuration for a serious off-road bike. I've ridden the GS extensively, and I'd like the bike. But overall, it is too big, too heavy, has too high a center of gravity, and is way too expensive. In addition, the windscreen really doesn't work particularly well. I like the shaft drive on the BMW but otherwise I'd take the Honda.
I don't go offroad I just like the high riding position. R1200GS Adventure or Africa twin Adventure sports for me.. Possibly both in 2019.
there is an AT in another video who suffered the same piercing of the case. The GS should have a CoG advantage due to opposed heads
I watched a RUclips comparison video of all the large Adventure Bikes recently. In that particular comparison test, it was the Honda African Twin that took a tumble that caused major damage to the engine. I don't think there is motorcycle engine made that won't suffer serious engine damage if the bike falls and slides in a certain manner.
it'd be useful if you linked down the video for a proper reference and as a support to your statement.
Equipped with "genuine" BMW
crashbars and destroyed?! A real Starbucks Adventure motorcycle...
thx for saying that man !
In Italy we say: "this is the dentist's motorcycle"
The BMW is an overpriced, unreliable POS that god forbid you drop it while you're in some "adventure" and you go home on foot.
I watched another review on the GS and exactly the same thing happened.
Definitely always wondered why putting piston heads as the bump stops on a bike made sense to bmw. Boxer design is a good engine but not for bikes that will be dropped. Can kill a very expensive bike too easily. Get a cruiser instead.
Just saying if you want to be comfortable kn long trips get a cruiser, and boxer doesn't mske sense for trail.
Good summary. The GS looks like a 75/25 road/dirt bike (only capable MX riders should try & ride it in mud and sand), while the Africa Twin looks like a 60/40 road/dirt bike (light enough to do more off-road work).
The Africa Twin ist not a s light as it might seems. 235 kg with dct. BMW GSA is just 10 kg more. But you are right, the Africa Twin is far better off road compared to the GSA.
Good no nonsense comparison. Scary the engine damage to the BMW even with crash bars fitted, obviously unlucky hitting a rock or similar. I enjoy Steve's reviews, he is so dry it makes me laugh which is what we need more of.
As someone who's had 3 years of rider experience on the DCT, it's never going to get it right on it's own all the time. That is why the manual mode toggle switch exists, allowing you full control over the DCT.
I've not had a chance to try the AT because stock of that model is damn near at extinction levels in the US. My preferred dealer kept telling me "soon" for the last year plus on when floor models would exist (they won't allow test rides anyhow). I'm not going to even contemplate purchasing a bike I can't sit on at least before mentioning the prospects of money.
So anyhoo, manual plus thumb shifters gives you the gear choice flexibility that you were missing. I noticed many riders that review this bike don't take the time to familiarize themselves with it, particularly the functions of the DCT.
What the DCT can offer you is stall-free bomb proof shifting experience in almost every scenario if you take the time to learn it.
Wow, 3k difference in price, that for me is a big deciding factor.
But in all fairness how about a review between the Honda Africa Twin VS Yamaha Super Tenere?
It's actually $5400 difference in price. The BMW R1200 GS Adventure starts at $18,695 and the Africa Twin starts at $13,299.
In the BMW world, "starts at $18,695" usually means "starts at $22,000".
Almost positive the Super Tenere suffered the same fate as the BMW in a different review
@@adamaj74 actually real life is closer to 10k for the same year
Im a Multistrada Fan!! Sorry! I dont hate these two bikes though! And Obviously the guy thats Talking through this video is a complete GS Fan, He sure did give alot more Pros on the GS versus the Africa Twin! Im Sorry, But if you plan on doing Both Dirt and Street Riding, 50/50, Then the Africa Twin IS The BEST Bike For You! And The DCT Clutch on the street is way more capable than this guy made it seem like!!!! You have to get use to it, figure it out, and then you start feeling like cruising with a real clutch.... With the benifit of no clutch or Auto! Ive seen Multiple Reviews on the Honda And Every ONE Of them, The People start off the Review saying I don't like not having a clutch or Why is this bikes DCT Shifting and So on, And Throughout the review they would figure out how the DCT worked and by the end of there video review They were In LOVE With The Honda Africa Twin AND Its DCT Clutch!!! EVERY REVIEW Ive Seen!!! There probably are Bad Reviews on RUclips, But I bet they didn't get enough seat time on the bike to figure it out!!!! Also, I dont know if you all Heard The Africa Twin With A Full Exaust On It, But God DAMN That Motor Sounds good To!! Sounds like a V-Twin But ALOT Smoother sounding on our Ears, I Think it sounds Alot Tougher Than the GS Boxer Sound... Which is actually my favorite Bike Motor, The Boxers from BMW. Sorry For The Long Comment here Guys, Just had to put some Truth in this video!!!!!!!!!
Why oh why all the comparisons between the AT and the 1200GS? The AT is much closer to the 800GS. 21" front wheels, weight, power, engine configuration and shape. Sure the AT has 14 more hp than the 800GS, but I bet you didn't use those 14 last horses in this test.
Yea it's getting silly now, everyone seems to be comparing these two bikes when the only thing they have in common is sales figures! The GS should be compared with the CrossTourer.....
It would make more sense comparing the regular GS to the AT, not the adventure GS.
If they would compare to GS800 the AT would win the big Cup. This bike is definitely better in all aspects compared to the GS800.. Checked both of them myself.
The AT is sort of in between the two... so tough to compare but I agree it's closer to the 800. Heavier and with more power... but closer. IMO it doesn't compare well to the big ADV bikes unless you downplay typical Big ADV bike criteria and emphasize typical mid-weight ADV bike criteria.
To be able to say BMW is better than Honda. :D The guy is totally biased.
And "testing" the bikes on 1/4 mile stretch and three puddles all over again?!? Really? What kind the test is that? :D
Well I can't say you've done an apples to oranges comparison... but it IS a bit of an "on road biased apple" to "off road biased apple" comparison. These bikes don't really compete as much as some might think. Offroad the AT is far and away the better of the two (it's competition is KTM, the smaller BMW 800 GS and maybe some Japanese dual sport's), Onroad the GS/GSA is far and away the better of the two (it's competition is Ducati, Triumph, and the KTM SA)
For all those skeptical of a design that has been around for 90+ years and has proven itself around the world through war and peace for so many decades: A simple pair of aluminum cylinder head covers, available from BMW and many aftermarket suppliers, protects the 1200 GS cylinder heads ...If you take any bike offroad, spec it with the appropriate protection when, or after you buy it, and prepare it for a fall, because it's inevitable. It really is heavy, no doubt, but the CoG is very low. I suspect many of those who criticize it have never ridden one.
Actually I thinks it's relevant, as I'm trying to decide between these two, no luck yet but no hurry, cheers.
Hey guys... seriously.. how can you make a test BMW R1200GSA LC vs Honda CRF 1000 AT each other?
Its like Antelope and Elephant!!!
Great review illustrating the core question facing anybody looking to purchase an ADV (or even a dual-purpose) motorcycle. Do I want more of a street, or trail, bike?
Both great bikes....but the GS has the proven history that its a 'go anywhere' ADV bike. That said the AT has a bright future. Full disclosure I'm on my 5th GS, I've ridden them all over Europe, North Africa and the US.
"The Gs has the proven history..." First history doesn't work with machines, and second, in case you want to believe in that "history" everybody knows what an Africa Twin is and they know it because they where almost imposible to break where as the Gs has always been more on the limit as most BMW from the 80s to now (Honda is about 4 times more reliable in their bikes than BMW and BMW only makes expensive bikes).
You say you're on your 5Gs, how many km do you ride on each one?? Because that kind of bike has to be able to reach at least 200000km before having to change them.
I don't get why people compare this two bikes so much, they have nothing in common, the F800Gs is an adventure bike but the 1200 is more of a road bike, it's to big to ride it hard offroad. The africa twin is the opposite, it's a much lighter hard style adventure bike and it's oviously worst on road.
I don't disagree but if you're looking at reliability, ease and cost of repair no matter where you are, I would put a KLR 650 on the front row. It's not a fancy bike by all means, but it gets the job done adequately.
C90 is surely the only true go anywhere easy to repair bike. :)
Wow You can go anywhere with any bike... buhahaha Check the Africa Twin History if you want one.. you will be surprised.. The old AT for an average adventurer.. like 95% of these days are.. is unbreakeble.. and easy to fix anywhere anytime.. try to fix a BMW with all that electronic shit on it.. common.. BMW is a good bike.. but not as good as the BRAND make it..You pay the big money on the BRAND not on the bike.. let's be onest.
+Jean-Michel Bourdon. Yeah!! Well said and done, Klr650s the right pick and it will do both on/off road with slightly greater ease and much more efficiently.
Impressive. I've ridden a 12GS 84000km on and off road and an HP2 50000 km mainly off road and never holed a cylinder head. Kudos. Great review thx. I'd get the AT similar power to first gen 12GS and HP2 at a lower price pt and equal or better reliability. What's not to like.
Gs has a big boxer that bulges out, the bike is huge, too expensive, crash bars are useless, AT gives you the option of automatic dual clutch transmission, lighter, easier, better in the dirt, the sound has so much character, fun loving ride, gorgeous paint job, has a face and an expression, biggest dealer network, cheaper parts. It's a no brainer.
For long on road touring, I use my Pan European. For touring involving off-road trails, I use my Africa Twin. A GS is too compromised off-road to be a one-bike-fits-all solution. And both my Honda's cost me 15600€ which is still cheaper than one second hand GS!! I had change to spare!
After watching Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman on big damn heavy machines, I bet they would have appreciated picking up something lighter as well as moving them out of position they stuck them in. Heavy is good, provided you aren't stuck, or put it on the ground. Once either of those apply extra weight is awful to deal with.
Thanks, good comparison review - I've always liked BMW boxer engine bikes, but this test highlights the obvious vulnerability of the flat twin cylinders jutting out sideways. The Honda features state-of-the-art innovation in the DCT system combined with a slimmer, lighter design - much more practical for trail use.
In the U.S. it's actually $5400 difference in price. The BMW R1200 GS Adventure starts at $18,695 and the Africa Twin starts at $13,299.
Tiger 800xc is a better comparison or the std 1200 gs. The GSA with its massive tank gives far better touring options with an ability to go off road.
Comparing the the numbers of bikes sold until the end of March does not tell much. GSA is an couple of years old model and the sale is consistent, AT was a new model and the customers were waiting for it for some months, then bought when they were available. It will be interesting to see and compare the numbers at the end of the year.
Great video! Thanks for the information.
Haven't ridden Africa Twin yet, but based on my short test ride with GSA LC and having not that much experience of riding mc in general, I wouldn't consider myself being capable to deal with GSA in off-road conditions. It was brilliant bike on the road and despite its size and my little experience I felt safe on it all the time, but for off road it is just too heavy or you need to be quite good rider, I just cant' imagine who will be capable to pick it up in the sand alone. With full tank and some panniers with some cargo it is close to 300kg I think. I think side guards on GSA are protecting the body of it, not the boxer engine and you need to have another protection on the engine to avoid this type of problems.
there's a guy called “wheelie adventurous“ on RUclips and Facebook. he has done more than 32.000km through Africa on an R1200GSA, had 100+ Offroad-drops and 0 breakdowns! :D
Owned 3 Gs bmers 1150 and 2 1200 GS bought brand new Africa twin gets a great big thumbs up from me love it to bits 👍👍👍🇬🇧🇬🇧.
Isn't more accurate to compare the normal GS? Weight and Dimensions are more comparable...
I prefer the Africa Twin
I think the BMW runs on tubeless rims, which makes a big difference in the bush, eg remove wheel, tyre, repair puncture, versus plug inflate and go
I believe the Honda AT's dct learns the riding characteristics of the rider and makes adjustments. If you are more aggressive with the throttle it will mimic you. You can get a Honda with some accessories for about 7K less. Honda's have a long reputation as being reliable and that you can throw a stick in any direction and hit a Honda dealer, not the case with BMW or a KTM. Not to mention that the parts and overall service is cheaper than the BMW, I choose the Honda AT.
THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT REVIEW,unlucky Simon, the BMW salesman tells me the lower crash bars are really only offering protection should you drop the bike.He says at any speed above 10 mph, the lower ones are not likely to prevent damage.
Alt-Rider crash bars would have solved the problem. The Africa Twin is a good machine but, it sits far too high, no cruise, and no shaft drive. The automatic transmission however is great.
This was a great review.. thanks
I have own both bikes both are good exact same thing happened to me on the GS in the Ozark mountains so for my money it's the Africa twin all the way
Love these reviews. No nonsense, I totally trust what this guy says. Brilliant.
If you can't afford the r1200gs definitely consider the Honda. Once you go Beemer you'll never go back.
To save you time, i can sum it all up to you. If you can buy or afford the BMW then buy it. But if you want cheap, reliable and jack of all trade; buy the Honda. Price wise, Honda is the buck for buck while BMW have the luxury which you have to pay for. Also, if you're less than 6 feet tall and a small person, don't buy the BMW. It's heavy as fuck and hard to pick up when drop.
Nice comparison!
well had an extended test ride on the AT today both versions. For the 99% of my riding the AT isnt a patch on the GSA. It was very good but comparatively it lacked everywhere. If i was serious about off road i'd be buying an old hack.
Conclusions if you have money and want adventure by foot buy gs ,if you want adventure and come back and save money honda, love my crosstourer even more after this review .
just got a 2019 DCT euro model my friend has the 1200gs, love my bike
I have always dreamed about riding a big BMW. Just havent had a chance. Used to ride big heavy cruiser bikes and a couple 1994 GSXR1100's. Have ridden for 35 year with some road racing thrown in for fun. Im very capable rider. Just that big BMW has me apprehensive about buying one. Love the looks and power and everything about it but its weight. Currently only ride my 2011 DRZ400S transformed into a lightweight ADV bike. I want a big GS, but just not sure its me, with being 5'8" tall with a 30 inch inseam. Not sure if i could rangle it around. And yes i know of the tiny girls that ride these with success. But dont have that much free time and money for the proper training. If the new bike does not come out by next summer(KTM 490 Adventure) i will be taking a hard look at a used 2015 or so 1200. So time will tell.
Enjoyed your comments!
Overweight street bike with "adv" fairings vs a lighter (still big offroad) bike with closer offroaf geometry and a true offroad front wheel. Its a no brainer. If you want a road toruing bike get the beemer, if you want a more adv bike get the honda, if you want a real adventurous bike, get neither, both too heavy
RUclips search “mad mick Africa twin” then see if you think the AT isn’t capable anywhere
@@brettw1518 not saying it's not capable, 90% is the rider. That still doesnt mean its the best bike design possible. If you look at adv bikes as mostly highway touring, with bling and comfort as priority and are willing to take a deep penalty off road (huge heavy bikes, very complex, overly so, electronics, drops causing thousands in broken parts and also lifting one off the side of a cliff or knee deep in mud).. then fine, enjoy your bike. The reality is that the trend is for manufacturers to marketed "starbucks riders" and sold them what are essentially ROAD BIKES with dakar rally aspirations for $$$$. Truth is that a bike around 500 to 700cc is more than enough grunt to ride highways for days on end, faster than 99% of cars and keeping their weight down (by almost half in some cases) they gain *immensely* offroad. Making them more 50/50 bikes. More is less in this case..
It’s it a GS or a GSA ? I drove both the Africa Twin and the GS and on road I prefer the BMW everyday : better engine , better protection, better confort, better everything . The DCT box is nice but specially in sports mode it’s too aggressive and unsets the riding too much ... all and all for people who just want to keep going when the road ends, the GS is a much more complete bike
For normal use the r1200gs is far better. This is the reason for i've just bought the new r1200gs rallye 2018.
The africa twin remains a good bike but for long journey and tarmac it simply can't reach the GS.
had the same crash bar issues on my old oil GS-A ... when i switched to the water version, i also got the extra Touratech linkage for the back of the OEM crash bar ... way more stable regarding punches (especially from the front):
touratech-usa.com/Store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-BMW-R1200GS-ADV-2013-2016-Water-Cooled
no clue why this doesn't come, per default, from BMW .??
I think this comparison DOES make sense! I was actually deciding between those two bikes, but after having an 800GS I wanted more power and the Africa Twin does not have significant more. The crash bars of the R1200GSA aren't useless but you have to add cylinder protection for off-road use (offered by multiple brands). The Africa twin comes without any crash bars... you also have to add stuff for off-road use.
+Christopher M. That bulged outwards flat twin GS1200cc engine looks undoubtedly so vulnerable on dual sports m/cycles especially when doing serious off roads, where as the slimmer lighter AT1000cc parallel twin engine on the other hand looks so well suited for both sports, Speaking of power... the AT has 200cc less than the GS and it's also quite clear it's not that much of a difference comparison in both handling and performance, We shall see in the not so distant future when Honda will add those extra cc's and hopefully squeeze in some extra HorsePower which you're so much craving for.
Christoph M you are right.👍
Surely tyres are key here. Confess to having 1150gs and 1200gsa, only ever off road on grass on campsites, but both have proven totally reliable. 1150 got me home having been taken out by a round hay bale dropped off a tractor on a hill....and it was a bit bent😬ps both 10 years old when purchased.
Good honest review !
Not sure what this review is trying to achieve, AT is aimed more at a standard GS not the GSA. On paper the AT is more in the 800cc market, and if you are going on a RTW trip where you are looking for a lot of off-road if you had any brains you use a KLR or 690. I can also testify that other crash bars work with a 60ish mph high side.
The aircooled gsa had a valvehead protection - i don't understand why the lc doesn't
optional extra sir shall we add it to the bill!
I want this Honda Africa Twin so much but it isn't available in my country...
Look at the price difference too - not mentioned in the video
Um, yes it is. Prices are given at the end.
Maintenance costs are also important. Bmw is not on the medium - low budget brands :P. This 2 bikes in my opinion are made for different market segments.
It's actually $5400 difference in price. The BMW R1200 GS Adventure starts at $18,695 and the Africa Twin starts at $13,299.
Factor in BMW service costs and the price of BMW parts
I would say Simon is a crap rider. I´ve done many many miles off road on a GSA and it´s amazing.
Don't go anywhere with your buddy or you will be headed home sooner than expected! Ride not crash both bikes!! really
no thanks
Africa Twin for me, but I then again, I am a Honda fanatic!
The damage to the BMW boxer engine in a 15 mph drop is why the BMW is not a true adventure bike. Having critical cylinder heads sticking out the side and low down is just
wrong. It's wrong for foot work and it's wrong for riding in tricky terrain when you can drop the bike. The GS format just does not have enough dirt bike ability and ergonomics.
Honda is state of the art right now.
the bikes you are comparing are in different category!!!!cheers from hellas.
a hole on the left hand valve cover? --- looked like the right side...guess the guy knocked his head harder than we thought..
one of the best videos i have seen, bummer the gs cover broke, makes me think about investing in the gs
excellent video, congratulations different bikes and for different purposes, the comparison does not seem fair
One should not compare Apples with oranges!!!! Africa Twin is one of the greatest Bikes that has come out in the history of Motorcycles..........
I’ve always had a problem with the crash bars in the BMW. The engine STICKS OUT through the bottom! That corner of the engine IS your crash bar! Oh well, at least most GS owners won’t leave the pavement long enough for that to likely happen, and a crash on the pavement usually ruins the whole bike anyways.
Wouldnt a fairer comparison be AT vs GS700 or 800 ?? Price wise anyway
Had tooooo many issues on my GS, switched to AT and what a relief! BEST choise EVER
One guy managed to crash both, that's part of this more than the bikes. Both are great bikes, love driving the GS.
FINALLY! 4:58 This is why you don't ride those giant turd BMW's "offroad"
For me that is the main reason i do not buy a GS.. It can hapend once and you have to pay at least half the price a GS cost to fix it... no sir.. This VIDEO in my opinion is made just for marketing porpouses and nothing else.. or is made by a guy/guys... that is/are fan/fans BMW.. and to blinds to see the major diferences between these 2 bikes.
Very good post I don't know why you wore talking so quickly though sounded like you wore paying for the air time! The GS like you say is a great tourer road bike and some and I say some guys have the ability to conquer off road but for the majority that's where all the trouble starts. People that own these behemoths only take them off road once, there just to heavy. Look at Yuan McGregor how many times did he fall off his bike countless times but his mate that was more of a accomplished rider hardly none. For me the thrill of riding has always been on the road. I owned a 2012 Ducati Multistrada and for a on road bike it was fantastic, I took it off road but there wasn't the fun factor in it for me. Undoubtedly it would be the same for the GS. Funny enough I have been off the bikes for 3 years and was looking again at the new Ducati Multistrada and the very new GS relley which are about the same money here in Australia. Both bikes are very capable of going down the odd dirt road but it is the road where these bikes shine. Anyway great post and thanks.
great review
The main difference is the Honda is more reliable.
Nice short test, a bit fast in concluding? First, does this bike have original crash bars? Current BMW crash bars look different and protect the cylinder where this damage happened with one bar running right across the outside of the boxer engine with further bars below, not just one bar above and one below as in this film (none across). Some offer an improvement still: touratech-usa.com/Store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-BMW-R1200GS-ADV-2013-2016-Water-Cooled
For a trip down town mongolia l would have chosen the AT without blinking. Not the DCT but he simplest one. Keep it basic and you get home. Thise GS's are way to advance to tape together in the middle of no where.
God said Africa Twin.
IMO the Africa Twin, while more dirt capable than the GS... is still too heavy to really deliver on your "ends of the world without a chase vehicle" side of the comparison. It doesn't compete well with the big ADV bikes (which put an emphasis on distance touring capability) and it doesn't compare favorably with the light to mid-weight 400-800cc DS/ADV bikes which have better offroad capability. That's not to say the AT isn't a good bike... it's a very good bike at a good price point (what... many thousands cheaper than the BMW, especially properly kitted) so owners have nothing to apologize for... it's just that having ridden MANY large ADV bikes I find myself wondering what the niche is that the AT is filling (I want a big ADV bike but don't want to spend $23,000?). I've done many thousands of miles of touring off-tarmac (generally good quality dirt roads... occasionally roads in poor shape like the one in this video) on my Tiger, rented GS's... and my Multistrada (which is a fair bit lighter than the Africa Twin's portly 505'ish lbs)... the GS with it's low CG is quite pleasant on dirt roads, but if the ride is going to be primarily dirt, I'd much rather be on a DR or dual sport husky - a lot more fun... a lot better able to soak up abuse.
Regarding sales... we'll see how well it's selling in a couple years, introduction year sales likely aren't telling us much.
David Kuhn it's niche is that it is a one size fits all bike. sure it does not do touring as good as the big boys, sure it does not do off road as good as a 450cc dirt bike, but it sure does them good enough for the average consumer. this bike is a compromise.
David Kuhn it's niche is that it is a one size fits all bike. sure it does not do touring as good as the big boys, sure it does not do off road as good as a 450cc dirt bike, but it sure does them good enough for the average consumer. this bike is a compromise.
Wooha.... BMW a bit worrying even with crash bars :(
Good comparison
This bloke has the most condescending voice I've ever heard.
Isn't that just a British accent? I guess that can be the same thing.. lol
I wouldn't hesitate to say the Africa twin would be way more reliable than the gs. I have just heard way to many bmw horror stories to even consider anything bmw.
jeff ferguson Brother, trust me BMW is shit. reliability, trade in and aftermarket service nowhere near Honda.
why on earth would anyone take a boxer off the pavement and not have a cylinder head cover? besides, like @tinnedspicedham said, the AT is really more comparable to an 800GS, get the right bike for the job guys.
Anakee III are no good in grass or wet ground or sand or rutted clay. My experience was they will always washout off road.
This video has no point at all.. These bikes are at two different segments of the market. Rivals of BMW R1200GS are KTMs 1190 and 1290, may be even Ducati Multistrada 1200. Honda, no matter 1000cc engine, is mid range bike. BMW F800GS, KTM 1090, Triumph Tiger 800...
1200GS isn't going to compete with the 1290...
True, but I have seen couple of guys falling off of a 1200gs and it's super scary. I wish bmw changed their design language and made it more 'Dakar'ish.
Honda African Twin about $13K USD vs BMW R1200GS about $19K USD... As usual - Pay more, Get more, or "You get what you pay for"... Rating in this Test seem obviously biased by the narrator's choice of language.
As an owner of both bikes I must admit. Both are great, but completty diffrend. In short AT is better off road, GS on long dis. But u can do oposittive ass well...
As far as I can see the crash bars on this particular GS was good as they come. It covers all the vital parts. In the end no bar will ever guarantee full protection.
I mean what good would be the crash bar of that AT? It only covers plastic body work.
I've seen a review of the AT in which they dropped the bike, hitting a root, breaking the engine case… shit happens.
I mean that is why for the AT you can buy a crash bar that actually cover the engine case: europe.outbackmotortek.com/product/honda-africa-twin-1000-engine-case-guard/
I’m not saying GS is better. I have no idea since I’ve never driven any of these bikes. But your comment about the crash bar seems rather unwarranted since no crash bar will protect from everything. All there needs to be is rock or root going between the gaps and done…
Your friend obviously did not only hit the crash bars. Everyone can see the scratch marks on the cylinder head. Something went in between.
How many engine casings are going to break before something it done with this terrible design. It's a real weakness to the gs. No engine casing should be a crash bar! And those elephant ears are the first thing to hit the road.....or anything else.
Dude ... take a breather here and there ... no need to sprint the review lol ;o|
Honda costs half what BMW cost ! Different beast all together, you can't compare this two.....
Nice video but I'm not sure it's an appropriate comparison? Maybe I'm too cautious but I will only take my GSA off road with knobblies on. I find intermediates simply aren't good enough, especially for slippery trails. As for the GSA performance off road, I often can't believe where mine has taken me and if it had a true crawler gear, it would be even better. I'm sure the Africa Twin is great - on the Capital Coast ride [ruclips.net/video/mSrOXIiO0kc/видео.html], I was followed by a 2-up old AT and it/they did very well. Only disadvantage with GSA is the weight in that on difficult trails you need help to get out of trouble.....but the GSA is a dream on the long ride home :)
Well say mate...
Always Honda!!Twice I had to tow my friends GS! Egypt&Mongolia!! the GS is a great bike but for that kind of money !Sorry!But not for me!