@@yungthunder2681 I don't think I could go that far, but it is a stand out track in his set for sure. That backing instrumental is extremely nostalgic and catchy.
sa2 is so interesting to talk about because everyone has different things they like and hate about it. you can ask five people the same question and get five different results
What about the clowns that formed the hate trend trying to claim that SA2 sucks and only 1/3 is playable, the "Sonic was never good" people? Because I'm tired of how much I hear from those people...
Sonic Heroes is SA3. It takes place directly after SA2, is placed in the same era as SA1 and SA2 in Generations, has a chao and Big in it, plays similarly to the adventure games or at least more than any other sonic game, has the same voice actors, and SA2 hinted at Sonic Heroes, and there are 3 circles on the logo of Sonic Heroes.
Seems like a huge part of the game’s success was Sonic team actually making a direct sequel that fleshed out the original’s good ideas, instead of tossing it all and coming up with something new and unproven.
If Sonic Team had just focused on SA3 rather than Heroes and Shadow and 06 we might have had a serious legacy on our hands. Instead Sonic Team put all their energy into reinventing the wheel over and over til nobody was sure what they even liked about the series anymore.
@@normalgrahamGive me a Heroes and 06 blend with polish and it’s better I think. They were right there. Sonic 06 might be… Sonic 06… but Sonic 07 would’ve been amazing.
@@normalgraham they can reinvent the wheel over and over with spinoffs but if only and if ONLY Sonic Team stook to their existing guts, who knows what kind of timeline we would've lived on
I still come back to this game consistently for the Chao Garden alone, and every time I return to it I realize that the rest of the game is better than I remember it. It’s probably my most played GameCube game next to Kirby Air Ride
@@machine1685 There’s nothing stopping you from returning to it my friend. I emulate SA2B on the Wii U and it runs beautifully. Played it a ton over the summer. I highly recommend returning to it
Thanks for the radar discussion at 14:40. It really is a more nuanced design issue than people realize. Some stages needed the SA1 style radar to be less annoying while the SA2 radar prevented others from turning into a total cakewalk. I honestly enjoy the treasure hunting in these games quite a bit and would like to see an attempt to improve and modernize them a little. They're heavily flawed but they honestly get too much of a bad rap. (edit) 23:44 THANK YOU! So far SA2 is honestly the only game that nailed the ranking system to me. Unleashed did it OK from what I remember and I'd almost say that Heroes did as well but the level lengths and punishment for dying killed it in conjunction with that game's jank. It just feels superfluous in Generations since it's way too generous and doesn't demand much from the player. The ranking systems for 3D Sonic should reward not just speed but style as well so that the games can add more depth and replayability to their otherwise short levels.
Hi Doc! And yeah I really do like the treasure hunters’ stages to and I’ve always like Sonic’s gameplay and all but I’ve always wanted to see what an evolution of the hunters’ play styles could look like
Yeah, i've never really gotten why people say that the ranking got better in the later games when if anything they just gimped it so literally anybody could get S ranks. They might as well have just removed them entirely since SA2 is about the only game that understands why and how they should work. Also, you would be correct in saying that Sonic Unleashed's was ok since, while it did reward more speedier play than anything else, you did still need to engage with large parts of the levels in order to get the S rank.
Linear order in mini open world stages is simply ridiculous and there is no excuse for that, if they really wanted to make the levels less of a cakewalk compared to SA1, then *make the level design less of a cakewalk* . Is just cheap, lazy and straight padding, thankfully, there is the SA2 port for PC and fans already fixed the mech and Knuckles/Rouge gameplay with mods or cheat codes. Now you can have gamma physics and movement for the mech stages, the radar is now non-linear for the Knuckles/Rouge Open World stages. There's no way to fix Sonic or Shadow's overall gameplay being such a downgrade from SA1, unless the level design changes and the movement too. If the vainilla game didn't have these problems, then it can beat SA1, Sonic Mania as my favorites. For now, SA2 is below Sonic 3&K for me.
@@makotoyuki345 I liked the treasure hunting levels themselves, sad that the radar ruined many of them, the gimmicks were also great and brings a nice change of pace, specially compared to the recycled Sonic levels for Knuckles in SA1. Both SA1&SA2 complement each other, both are equally flawed, choosing one over the other is simply a personal preference (SA1 still has the better overall music with SA2 very close).
Okay, let's accept that the smaller stages being something when you first see them is a valid argument for the weakened radar. There's a simple solution I've not seen anyone mention. Just make the goddamn treasure scope and sunglasses return the better radar in addition to their current effect. Bang. The small stages are still a thing the first time you see them, bigger levels are less annoying, AND the least appreciated power boosts get a big utility boost. Kill the entire flock of birds with one stone.
Was just listening to this again 6 months later as background noise and I just had an idea regarding the radar system. What if the radar allowed you to sense each emerald on the stage all at once but the radius for sensing each one starts out somewhat small. Finding an emerald/key item would then increase the radar's strength, letting you begin to sense the remaining emeralds from further away. Ideally, this system would make it so that with each emerald you find the remaining ones become a lot easier to pinpoint. You'd get an additional sense of progression in each stage with this, possibly creating a good sense of flow (would need to test this first). Maybe it would also help to increase the number of pieces to find in conjunction with the radar change.
I think the hunting game play is a neat idea but flawed it really breaks the pace of the game like putting a puzzle in the middle of a halo game and would much prefer they give knuckles somthing similar to the wearhog stages from unleashed but like half or a quarter of yhe length
@@Bobb11881 combat is inherently faster than exploration by the nature of it being non exploratory im not saying 30 min lvls like unleashed but like a little 5 min combat segment would be more fun imo
@@Bobb11881 to put a time limit on exploring is the opposite of good exploration but a good beatemup section could be alot of fun. Games like dishonored are alot better suited to exploration based puzzles and hunting but sonic is an action platformer and its so weird to have a section about not action or platforming but running in circles until you give up amd look at a monitor
@@Bobb11881 there isnt an actual time limit but the scoring system is time based so clearly the game encourages speed and i know that wearhog was slow but that doesn't mean it cant be sped up and or make the levels shorter as i think the real problem was that there was 80 min levels of wearhog and 2 min sonic levels but knuckles doesn't have the expectation of speed so a slightly slower section wouldn't be as bad as when you are sonic the whole time and keeping it limited also dosen't take away from the main (sonic experience)
@@Bobb11881 slower physically yes but i don't think anyone would call dmc or Bayonetta slow games and i hear your issues with the gameplay from unleashed but im not advocating for a 1 to 1 here i think the idea was good but the excution was the problem starting with sonic has a character comes with that expectation of speed and going slow as sonic is frustrating
Wow, this video was incredibly well done, as always. I never really thought about the treasure hunting levels that much, so hearing you talk about it in detail was like really eye opening. Your vids are definitely becoming a highlight in my subfeed. Keep up the awesome work, KingK!
@@speedsterx8452 Most Werehog levels are actually only like 15 or 20 minutes. The reason why they last more than that is because of the medal collecting. So I say it’s the medal collecting that holds it back. And on my first playthrough it was hard finding out where to go next in the hub worlds because of the pacing. Everything else is pretty fun in my opinion
@@theminecraft2516 I agree,but in my opinion 15-20 min is a litte too long.I think think the perfect length for a Sonic level is 3-5 min.Mybe the night stage's could've been 7-10?And everything else in the game is amazing!
@@speedsterx8452 Ehh, the perfect length of a boost stage is 3-5 minutes but I really like the level length and depth of Sonic Heroes levels when they are like 8 minutes long
Sonic Adventure 2 is one of those games where everyone has something to say about it. Every review I see on SA2 has a ton to say on the game, good or bad.
@Shaman Xeed oot still holds up now but if argue ds1 and bloodborne are genuine masterpieces, the others are solid but not as good. Majoras mask is probably the best zelda game and stands the test of time the best, due to its narrative alone.
@@saricubra2867 Are you serious or joking? 1. OOT and Sonic are 2 different styles 2. Every game is flawed. SM64 had it's shitty camera + lackluster story, OOT had it's slow gameplay + Water Temple, etc... Just because a game is flawed doesn't mean it's bad. 3. Everyone loved S3&K and Mania what the fuck are you talking about
@@the1whoplayz 1. They are still videogames. 2. You mean OOT's N64 awful framerate (i can get the slow gameplay here), but it has aged really well specially when Zelda nowadays is basically another traveling sim like the other AAA developers. 3. Mania is severely overrated, only 4 original levels, the rest are rehashes of the originals, as a Sonic fan myself, it's like they learned nothing from Sonic Generations and using nostalgia again. The small screen space for Sonic 3&K hurts the enemy visibility and the framerate is all over the place on the Genesis, also it has some bad levels (Marble Garden Zone). The best 4 Sonic games are all flawed and those flaws are bigger than those 2 Zelda games combined.
Hell from the future, it’s really funny you said this because Hayden Christensen is rumored to be Shadow’s voice in the upcoming Sonic 3 movie lol. Don’t know if that rumor holds any weight but I would love if it ends up true
Sonic Adventure 2 is a more mechanically deep, sophisticated take on the Adventure series, combo systems, rankings, mission variety - all of these specific elements allow for different playstyles to manifest in ways that its predecessor attempted, but often struggled with. When I think of SA2, the first word I think of is streamlined, from the level progression to the levels themselves, this game ultimately feels like the developers better understood translating 2D game design in a three dimensional space. Today SA2 is dated, but back when it released, it was truly something special to behold and put a smile on my face. Here's hoping (if the Sonic Adventure remake rumors are true) that one day a remake of SA2 will soon be awaiting us in the near future...
Hello, Sonic Adventure 2 disliker here. I have to say that your analysis of this game really gave me a newfound appreciation for it. There are things I enjoy about the game, but there are many more things that I don't. While I still don't like those things, hearing you explain thought processes behind certain decisions made for the game and why you personally like them helped me realize why someone might love SA2. Things I usually regard as flaws can just as easily be seen by someone else as strengths. I've usually just chalked it up to "nostalgia blindess" or whatever, but I've come to see it from a new perspective. Even if it's not what _I_ love about Sonic, Sonic Adventure 2 still has a lot to love about it.
It feels so refreshing to finally see positive reviews of Sonic Adventure 2 after years of where it felt like there was nothing but negativity towards the game.
@@Shikojen IGN thought Sonic Colors was “too hard”. 🤣😂🤣🤣 Sonic Colors the game that was meant for 6 year olds was considered “too hard” for IGN. 🤣🤣 And it gets even better,... IGN removed a whole point from Sonic Colors because of that!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So it could have gotten a 9/10 but IGN completely sucked at it!! 😂😂😂😂😂
People bring down every Sonic game as the years go by Sonic Generations went from “Fantastic” to alright Sonic Colors went from Good to bad Sonic 06 went from bad to “one of the worst games ever made” lmao shovelware exists I noticed this cycle because anytime a bad game comes out they just lower the quality of the other games and it’s kinda stupid.
Great video, you touched on a lot of things most SA2 reviews don't. The rank system is such an integral part of the game, I'd kill for a Sonic game that went even further with that with a full tony hawk esque trick system and more multipliers that has a visual style meant to match the graffeti inspired Sonic Adventure art. That being said, I think you glossing over the Chao garden meant you missed a major element of how the rank system is encouraged and is synenergized with: Both the rank system, the missions, AND the Chao garden all encourage replability in a feedback loop, with the need for rings and chaos drives and animals giving you even more incenvtizes then the ranks and alt missions already do to replay the main stages. And yeah, I also don't mind the Radar changes, and I prefer the larger levels, though I do think that it would have been worth noting how the genre choice for Rouge and Knuckle's stages compliments the more open-ended design of that playstyle: Both the smooth rap and jazz gives their stages a much more laid back feel that makes you want to spend time in them, rather then rush THOUGH them like the more energic Sonic, Shadow, and even Tails and Eggman themes do. I gotta say I disagree about Mad Sapce being good, though, the gravity mechanic truly does suck there, and on the flip side, I think Cosmic wall is easily the best mech stage, despite it's rail shooter sections. Even without movement control, timing lock ons is still engaging, and the low gravity high jumps make the stuff you do control all the more fun. In terms of writing, you touched on how Shadow isn't actually that different from Sonic, and he wasn't really edgy in this game. but I don't think you went quite far enough on this point. To expand on it, Shadow isn't dark Sonic, he's Sonics'... well, Shadow. In fact, his original name, Terios, meant "Mirror" (or "making wishes come true" which is sort of a major theme in his arc):He's meant to be a twisted reflection of Sonic. To quote a comment by @Archive Cat on TGC's Shadow the Hedgehog review: "Shadow's calm and collected, he's cocky and cracks one liners, and his ego is three times the size of his head. All stuff just like the blue blur. It's why the faker scene in SA2 is so funny, it's these two massive unflinching egos trying to out-ham each other. It's all the same cockiness and charm of Sonic wrapped up in a smoother voice " And to further extrapolate, on the one difference there is between Shadow and Sonic, the "Smoother voice": Sonic was designed to be the epitome of 90's radical-ness. He's energetic, cheesy, over the top, and sarcastic. Shadow was introduced in the very late 90's, bordering on the early 2000's: In the early 2000's, what was cool wasn't earnest 'tude, but rather aloof stoicness: THAT'S what Shadow is. Shadow in SA2 is a different interpretation on Sonic, with the same philosophical core to his character, just expressed in a different way. Also, I'm a bit dissapointed you didn't touch on some of the lore implications that SA2 has in it's plot, which are actually intentional, as confirmed by the game's writer on twitter: In a Japanese guidebook, there's a report from Rouge (combined with dialog in the Japanese script) calls into question if the Shadow we see in game is the actual finalized result of Project Shadow (since Gerald was apparently still working on the project even after/during the Ark was sieged and Shadow was allegedly captured) or a prototype/replica, with altered or fabricated memories. In fact, Sonic X, which frequently used cut plot points, even had TWO capsules fired down from the Ark, not just one with Shadow. Furthermore, we see through the Artificial Chaos enemies, the Ancient Echidna/Maya iconography around the Eclipse Cannon's control center and the Cannon's Core, and the Chaos Drives which power the GUN enemies that Gerald Robontik was studying Angel Island and the Master/Chaos emeralds as well as Chaos himself (all of which was confirmed in Sonic Battle)(, which has made people theorize that Shadow is based on the Super Sonic mural. Lastly, During the final fight against the Final Hazard, if you take long enough, it also is stated by Shadow that he';s having trouble keeping his super form up, wheras Sonic is doing fine, which is why Shadow ends up dying at the end of the game; and that he thinks SONIC is the ultimate life form. There's a few potential ways to interperet all of this: The most basic is that the Biolizard is the prototype and Shadow is the final result, and his memories were just altered by Gerald to make him think Maria wanted revenge instead of the people of Earth to be happy so Shadow would execute Gerald's revenge plot, and that his comments of Sonic being the Ultimate Life Form was just him saying Sonic is better then he is, or that if Shadow was indeed based on the Super Sonic mural, that Sonic is the propheized ultimate life form that Shadow was an attempt at creating by Gerald. But the more interesting possibility is that Shadow IS an earlier prototype or replica: Either created after the ARK incident/while Gerald was on earth in Prison Island (hence why Shadow was also stored there), with totally fabricated memories (Something the Sonic X anime implies); or that he was a prototype left on the ARK which was then captured by GUN as the capsule was sent down by Maria, while Gerald continued his work and made the Final Shadow; or that there were in fact TWO capsules sent down (again, something Sonic X implies by showing two capsules), and that with all of these, the actual final result of Project Shadow is in fact...….. Sonic himself: This is supported by both Shadow's comment, other dialog in game with Shadow questioning just who Sonic is and how he's "just not a normal hedgehog" and can use Chaos Control, and Sonic himself, with him pondering the concept of an "ultimate life form" during the credits. Sadly, all of this intentional ambiguity (the main writer of SA2 was asked about all this on twitter and said it was intended to be open ended) and conflicting information was thrown out the window after Sonic Team shifted gears and brought SHadow back in the dead and wanted a less serious story for Sonic Heros; with the Second Capsule idea being retconned into Emerl from Sonic Battle being sent down, and then in Shadow the Hedgehog Shadow's origin was retconned into the alien-black doom stuff; though some elements of the question of if Shadow is real or not remains with the whole "hall of Shadow replicas" stuff in Heros and then his identity crisis stuff in Shadow. Anyways, you can really sort of tell that this was intended to be the ultimate, final Sonic game in case after Sega's hardware division went down the software division did too: Eggman and Sonic teaming up to take down a bigger foe, Eggman actually chilling out and talking with tails, and a possible origin given for Sonic himself.
Sonic X never implied Sonic was the Ultimate Lifeform because of how much of a stretch that would have been. Keep in mind the time difference was the only way it could have been possible thanks to Sonic's Age & that was only created for Sonic X Season 3. Before Sonic Heroes revealed he was still alive, I always believed that Shadow survived because he was the Ultimate Lifeform. Still you're right about it being intended as the last Sonic Game thanks to the way it ended & it being the last Sonic Game on Sega Hardware.
The idea of Sonic being Gerald's true Ultimate Lifeform REALLY doesn't sit well with me. It would imply that Sonic was given all of his power instead of being strong on his own and that genetic engineering is the only way to be as strong as he is, giving everyone else no chance to match him period as well as implying that technology can only be fought with technology even though Sonic was supposed to give nature hope. It REALLY diminishes his cool factor in that regard besides throwing the overall Sonic story for a loop and a half. It's bullshit like this that tanked Sonic storytelling and gameplay as well since now his friends HAVE TO do TOTALLY different shit instead of being allowed to be variations on Sonic himself to spice up his own gameplay. Honestly, Tails makes for a better example of how nature and technology don't have to be at odds since his abilities are a mix of both without him being artificial, and he had the best chance of succeeding Sonic before SA2 fucked up everything. Shadow can stay as an outright merger of both. I do NOT want Maekawa writing for Sonic unless he understands the series in and out, which he clearly doesn't, most likely due to being misinformed by Iizuka.
@@CarbonRollerCaco so... Because of a theory... That somehow tanked Sonic storytelling...? How? It's quite literally an interpretation given by info from the story. The gameplay thing couldn't have worked in a 3d translation, and I commend sega for trying to adapt the gameplay rather than try to copy what the 2d games did, which results in products like megamanX7
I’m glad we’re past the automatic stigma of sonic adventure 2 automatically being classed as a bad game. I can come back to it 20 years later and still have a great time every time.
Yea I recently downloaded the full story sa2 mod and it's like my dream come true (this is usually how I play the game anyways-I would just swap between the stories to keep it chronological anyways.) Just a few mods here and there really polish up the game for me and it's so much fun to play all of these stages again each time. I love this game
I REALLY appreciate your dedication to highlighting the replayability of SA2. So much SA2 focus tends to come from a sole observation of the story, how it works as a single playthrough in comparison to a single playthrough of Sonic Adventure, the "game review" retrospective of SA2 with maybe a mention to replaying City Escape or Radical Highway a few times due to the Chao Garden. What I love about SA2, and what you capture so well, is how it modernizes the ideas of mastery instilled by the classic series and translates it into 3D. By adding these different objectives to linear levels, it creates that sense of flow in a way similar to Crash time crates and Tony Hawk levels, encouraging the player to get better and fulfill objectives. And then setting up a side game to encourage them to go back into stages to get more emblems to get more chaos drives to get stronger chao to get more emblems. It's a very early 2000's way of establishing that replayability, but damn does it ever go for it and establish the game's personality so strongly due to it. Definitely one that I personally prefer to the classic series (though I'll freely admit that's also because of how comparatively loose and freeform the Adventure games feel control-wise), at least. And whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything here (bro Cosmic Wall's a Top 5 level in this game whatchu talking about Eggman go speen everyone dies), I really appreciate the depth of thought that goes into dissecting the game's mechanics beyond a pure analysis of its game feel. SA2's one of those few Sonic projects that clicks together in a way just past "yup Sonic feels good, level design is good, good Sonic game", and it made for a really enjoyable watch to see that illustrated. But also the best line is "Because you just told me, fox boy" get outta here with this sayonara junk.
i'm not even a fan of the chao garden experience and i think it's stupid it's not in more games. it's a surprisingly deep and complicated system to spend your time, rings, and rewards in and it gives you a constant reason to replay stages. maybe if it was a bit divorced from 100% completion (maybe tying cosmetics to it over emblems) i'd be a lot less negative on it also chao garden has a 10/10 aesthetic
@@antant6217 Same, I never really cared about Chao Garden but I can't deny Sega is sitting on a huge pile of money and don't even seem to realize it. Now that they're going through a sort of economic crisis they could really use some of that money with a Chao Garden for phones or something. But then again, this is Sega we're talking about.
"There was a time where this blue hedgehog was the center of my whole world." I feel this so much. After watching I really feel like we almost got identical opinions and feelings on this game. It is kind of sad that we never got Aventure 3 but hey, let's be happy that we were able to experience SA2 as it has obviously given us so much joy and pleasure like almost no other game ever did.
It's so refreshing to see a video about SA2 that recognizes how good it is, instead of "DAE SA2 ACKSHULLY SUCCCCCKS?!?!" I get so sick of, "Oh, well, SA2 was good AT THE TIME." Nope, it's just good. It's still good. It has flaws, but it's good.
@Johannes Brahms Okay, I still think it's best Sonic game as far as I'm concerned. Incase you're wondering why I hadn't gave my reasons it, is because you're not my priority, and since going over literally everything, which is time consuming
@Johannes Brahms I do, or at the very least taking his playstyle and adding uniques features to it. Something like the classic games and Mania did well
I really feel your closing words in this retrospective. It truly does seem like after Adventure 2 (and arguably Heroes) they truly lost any idea of who these characters were, and how the gameplay should progress. Sonic in Adventure 1&2 really did seem like the perfect characterization for him. A cocky, flawed, but brave hero who says what he thinks, but doesn't say more than he needs to. After Heroes, it really feels like they tried too hard to give him stuff to say. And the rest of the characters really became cheerleaders for the blue boy, rather than their own thing. In terms of gameplay, the series has definitely steered much more towards raw speed rather than (in my opinion) the more interesting flow and momentum based gameplay design. Now it's all about going fast, but Adventure 1&2 were about how you kept that speed up and used your abilities to keep the flow. And lastly, I agree that Adventure 3 should probably never happen. I love BioShock, but I am not excited at all for the BioShock 4 news I've heard rumors of. Sometimes what makes some things truly great, is that they die great, not live on into mediocrity. Sayonara, Sonic Adventure...
Id be excited if someone talented was making an sa3. It's all about who is making a hypothetical sa3 imo. I think there are correct answers. Whether or not sega would be caoable of finding thsoe ppl and giving them resources is another quwstion of course...
I think Unleashed and even Black Knight actually characterized Sonic incredibly well. Yeah, he’s not as cocky as he used to be, but it’s still there, while showing more of his noble nature of helping those in need. It still feels like Sonic. Just a more mature Sonic, for lack of a better term. That, and they had an actually good writer on the team for those two games. Then the staff changed in 2010 and... well, we all know how it’s been since.
The ending of this really resonated with me. Especially the line about wishing to be able to return to understanding where sonic will end up in the future soon. Great video, love this retrospective.
It really was a staggering decision to completely rip out the aesthetic, mechanical, and narrative strides they'd made through the Adventure games and opt for the direction that resulted in Heroes. It's so frustrating that their attempt to get back on track and evolve those elements for 06 remains radioactive. All the edge, the direction, and potential for nuance has been gone ever since. I understand people like boost; I liked Sonic Rush too, but lifting boost into the mainline games was only ever a band-aid to a larger problem, which was that they didn't know where to take the fundamental design anymore; it's quite clear now that it was never going to be sustainable. I still think Adventure's core concepts are worth revisiting, if only to re-establish a new baseline for the 3D games going forward, but Sonic Team has made every indication over the past 14 years that they're not up to it. All they seem to be able to do anymore are tone deaf and tired references to when this series had any ambition and spirit at all. But Sonic Team doesn't even officially exist anymore, so maybe this could be an opportunity for new blood. At the same time, I suspect the brand has found a comfortable position in catering specifically to very young children, so there can't be much impetus to revitalize it if it means potentially losing that market. This series is such a bummer because it peaked so early; the inherent promise of its design and its aesthetic potential are still so unique, but every release feels like a clueless betrayal. But I'll always be glad we got games like Adventure 2. tl;dr I loved the video. Your passion, reverence, and understanding were intimate and relatable. Thanks.
dude, trying to root for another improved adventure game after Adventure 2 has become a frustration as a huge fan who wants what they did for that game and improving it ten times fold. We could've had another Sonic 3&K esque game
0:13 Let's Get To It 1:23 One of the best sequels ever seen 2:18 City Escape 4:16 Green Forest/Radical Highway 6:54 Pyramid 7:38 Gamma --> Tails/Eggman Levels 10:56 Hidden Base 11:49 Treasure Hunting with Knuckles and Rouge 14:45 The Master Emerald Shard Radar 17:08 The Soundtrack Rock jams, Grunge Rock, Jazz Fusion 20:00 The Ranking System - a rewarding process 25:00 Speedrunning 26:24 The Extra Missions (when you get an A on the regular level, you unlock a 100 coin challenge, then find the chao, and so on) 27:43 Power Ups 30:22 The Chao Garden 31:51 No Hub World in this game 34:33 Hero Story Plot 35:57 Character Analysis 37:26 Shadow 38:38 The Last Story 40:26 The Final Hazzard 41:03 The Ending 43:08 Incredible Game, Not Perfect 44:43 And yet it is still golden 46:24 Modern Sonic feels aimless, unclear. Unlike this game, which had definitiveness.
I'm on the opinion that Shadow should have stayed dead after this game. Like you said, it was a good moment, but that moment got ruined when Shadow came back due to the power of popularity and now all he does is stand around and be a fan service character. Funnily enough, I think 06 has the best portrail of Shadow. He's moved on from Maria and is working for GUN for some.. reason? Nonetheless though, as much as 06's story sucked ass, Shadow at least was his own character instead and had his own importance to the shitty story instead of being the fan service card that he is today.
You know how many clones of shadow we saw in Heroes... he’ll never stay dead. Hopefully though, the next clone they roll out has a developed personality. (I got frustrated with the broken mess that was 06 and never played it enough to know what shadow is like in that one...)
Sonic Adventure 2 is so great even in spite of it’s flaws, sadly I think that after 06 his legacy and reverence is forever dead. Sonic Adventure 2 reminds me of a time where Sonic was still the rival of Mario, my favorite gaming franchise, and was/still is my favorite video game of all time. Awesome video, can’t wait for more content.
@Xavior he also had 2 of the worst, most unfinished games of all time in less than a decade with 06 and Boom in 2014, and the 2 mainline games of the 2010s, Lost World and Forces, are both undeniable 4/10s. those undid any confidence people had from games like Unleashed and Gens. his reputation is still very, very low and Mania + a movie won’t just magically fix that. he isn’t dead yet, but if the next mainline game isn’t atleast an 8/10, he might as well be. he can’t survive on Manias and movies
Some people think SA2 undoubtedly did everything better than SA1, some think SA1 undoubtedly did everything better than SA2. That's what I always found interesting about discussing these games.
I think thats the generational gap. The fans who played sonic before SA2 tend to prefer SA1 and those that started with SA2 tend to see it as the better game. This isnt 100% true but i have noticed this trend over the years.
The Adventure Games were the best, while 2010s Decade was the worst as far as Sonic Games are concerned. The "Just Sonic" mentality was a mistake from the start, although what Colors to 2020 did to the stories & the characters themselves was unforgivable. We can only hope we get to see a return to form next year, the Sonic Series is running out of chances.
Hell yeah. But imagine if this game came out yesterday, with just better graphics but the exact same gameplay. It would be such a huge flop, people are way too over critical over games these days and reviewers would tear it to shreds.
Sonic Adventure 2 really threw a learning curve at me. I played through the story once and thought “well that was rough around the edges.” I eventually came back to get all emblems and I thought “well that was fun, I like this game a lot more now than I did before.” Then I did the same thing again and thought “holy shit this is one of my favorite Sonic games WHAT?” I can’t explain what’s so inescapable about the game. I still think about it even though I never grew up with it. There’s something about how rough some of it is that makes it endearing. I love Sonic & Shadow cutting each other’s lines off. I love getting A ranks, I love just thinking about it. It’s a game that just puts it’s heart out there. There’s no need for a meta-textual meme joke, there’s no need to ridicule it’s own series’ history, it’s just a wholesome game that lets those mistakes be as they are. For as flawed as it is, I think that’s what makes so many people still love it, talk about it, share it, enjoy it. Sonic Adventure 2 is just one of those games. Great video as always King!
I remember the order of the first 7 I got for the GameCube after that it becomes blurry. 1. Luigi's Mansion 2. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle 3. Some Tarzan game (it sucked) 4. Super Mario Sunshine 5. Super Smash Brothers Melee 6. Pikmin 7. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. And a library of others after. I doubled down on the 6th gen consoles. The eras of the 4th, 5th, and 6th were the greatest imo.
This is honest to God on the level of in-depth analysis as Somecallmejohnny's video all those years ago. I still remember how utterly impactful that video was to the general perception of Sonic Adventure 2 and how other RUclipsrs like ProJared further drove that point home by pointing out the flaws of it from aging over the years. But videos like this and The Geek Critique give it the thorough dive into what makes this game one of the best out there. That's not to say this game doesn't have it's flaws. The radar system and the RNG placement of the emeralds still never makes a playthrough of those levels as enjoyable as they can be on the later levels, especially Mad Space. With that said, if I were to compromise between SA1 and SA2's approach to treasure hunting, I'd make it this: have the player hunt down more emerald shards (perhaps 4-6 shards) per stage while also allowing all of the emeralds to be searchable. With this, even though you have more emeralds you need to find, the shard timer reset would couple well with being less reliant on the hint system and therefore spend more time exploring the levels. As much as I enjoyed the concept of the Chaos, I found having to boost one up to a high level back in the day to be veeeerrry tedious. Thank God for GameFAQs, Gamewinners, and the GBA link feature to help make that experience much more efficient for a younger, less patient self. I'm sure there might be an incentive to try it again more naturally on a first playthrough if I started a new save, but who knows? One final note about the closing statement - since Adventure 3 is never going to happen (or since it "did" if you consider Heroes to be the unofficial SA3 or whatever), I'd instead let Christian Whitehead, Headcannon, and whatever other development team is willing to hop on to remaster this game, Adventure 1, and Heroes from the ground up. In an ideal world we could get something akin to a Sonic 3 Complete experience where you could tweak everything from the sound mixing to the textures and lighting and designs that changed between the Dreamcast release, the GC Battle release, and the HD ports for PC and 360/PS3 where applicable. But at the very least, we might get some re-animated cutscenes akin to what Hypo did years ago (see ruclips.net/video/pU72XlMODgI/видео.html for an example of what I mean with this). That's just the hope of an old Sonic fan, and I'm all for hoping for a future like this!
SA1 needs good content in the hubworld, fixing Big the cat, a small rewrite of the overall plot, original beta Windy Valley, better Amy. SA2 needs a level redesign for Sonic levels and more SA1 feel, better mech movement, nonlinear radar, also a rewrite because there are plot holes near the end of the game and it gets really messy. Both SA1&SA2 should have way better voice acting, graphics. These are the changes that i would like, even more tweaks to the Chao garden.
There's one thing I completely disagree with you on here, and I think it comes from a fundamental contradiction in your reasoning. And that is, simply, that the ranking system does not encourage the most fun way of playing the treasure hunting stages. You're dropped in a sprawling level with no direction, and asking for directions is punished. As such, you are incentivised to wander aimlessly until you eventually run into the emeralds' radar range one after the other, resulting in a low score and potentially huge play times where you're not having fun. In order to get a high rank, you need to either do that so often that you know the levels by heart, or redo every stage over and over again using hints and making a map of the stage, and creating a single optimal route along which you will run through every possible emerald location in the shortest time in order to find them without hints. And to me at least, spening hours wandering around these levels just to memorise where the treasures might be is far from the most fun way to play those stages.
Hints don't penalize you enough to bar getting the A rank unless you use them frequently. You can use a few hints and still get the A, I've done it many times.
I remember when I first played Sonic Adventure 2 on a friend's Dreamcast, I was enchanted, and I was thrilled to when I finally got the game for GameCube. Over the years, I went from considering it to be one of my favorites in the series to it being "just okay". More recently, I've definitely started to lean back toward how I originally felt. Discourse in the early 2010s made me feel like I was wrong for liking it so much, like I had been blinded by nostalgia, but I realize I wasn't wrong, I loved the game for what it was, and the flaws were something I accepted because, well, the overall package was just a joy, and I'm honestly glad the discussion about the game has shifted back to a more balanced and nuanced outlook overall. I will disagree with one specific thing you mentioned in the video: I absolutely believe we can have a Sonic Adventure 3, and it can be fantastic, and the reason why I believe that is Sonic Mania. I think not only fans, but also Sega themselves have been exhausted of Sonic being just a funny meme guy, and the new IDW comics clearly show a Sonic narrative with stakes, characterization and pathos is still definitely in demand. I think people who truly love Sonic Adventure will be the ones working on the series in the near future
I hope you're right because the entire 2010s direction for the games ruined the Sonic Series. "Just Sonic Mentality" was always a mistake that combined with the series treating itself like a joke starting with Colors doomed the series. We can only hope we get to see that return to form with the standards set by the Adventure Games for 3D Sonic finally being brought back. Most main series Sonic games should offer at least 6 playable characters from now on. I'm expecting at least 7 in Mania 2 & hoping it's Amy Rosy & Honey the Cat getting added.
I feel like the ranking system in SA2, Heroes and Unleashed are at their best, incentivising replayablity. While SA1 being one of my favorite games of all time, SA2 can definitely stand the test of time significantly better. I said it on Twitter and I'll say here: Glad to see what you have to say.
I think SA2 is the only game I’ve replayed over and over and over besides Super Mario sunshine. Learning about the shortcuts in speed stages, remembering the layout and hints of the treasure hunting to trying to be as precise and speedy in mech missions would never get old. And you definitely hit the nail on the head with the ranking, I had no idea Green Hill was a reward for all As so you can imagine my childhood surprise when I saw it unlocked
Unfortunately I never had a chance to play Sonic Adventure 2. Would love to play for Rouge. But I spent a big part of my childhood discovering Sonic Adventure DX on my old PC. Although even back then it was clear that this game is full of problems, I loved it so much. I never actually understood the point of ranking system. And it was annoying for me to do gameplay for Tales or any other stuff which is time limited. Because I would rather spent sooo much time exploring a level to find all secrets. I also loved that kinda openworld level hub aspect and I spent so much time in Chao gardens. All of this being said, I just find it beautiful how this old game can be felt so different by different people. And still means so much to a lot of them, including me
This game never gets old it’s one of the most iconic games of all time. It’s really easy to look past it’s flaws with all of the great things about it. I really hope their is a Sonic Adventure 3.
I think the problem with SA2's Knuckles/Rouge levels is that radar change and the bigger treasure hunting levels were both solutions to the same problem. Really, if only one of those solutions was chosen instead of both, I think SA2's treasure hunting would have been fantastic. Increasing the size and complexity of the levels but keeping SA1's radar would make the levels challenging, but also take away the annoyance of being near a piece but not detecting it. The levels are spaced out enough that it's very unlikely two pieces would be detected at once anyway. Changing the radar but keeping the levels relatively confined would also have worked, as the levels being small would make searching through it all multiple times less egregous. Honestly, if someone just modded SA1's radar behaviour into SA2, I'd love the Knuckles/Rouge levels. Who cares if it makes their first levels too easy - they're their first levels.
Adventure format or not, the things that I feel make a Sonic game a Sonic game are risk, vision, and sincerity. Add momentum based gameplay that rewards skillful play (be it 2D or 3D), and you got t yourself a damn good Sonic game.
The Chao garden was my favorite feature of the game. I remember my friends and I would spread playground rumors about how to unlock fake content such as secret gardens for chaos chao, how to gett egg chao, and how to breed secret types of chao. Good times... It's a shame sonic team has yet to bring the chao garden or a similar concept back yet.
@@theshane7413 Same. I loved it as a kid but not as much these days. I get why people love it to this day but I don't have the time to spend raising a Chao as I did as a kid.
@@trajectoryunown I already watched a bunch of livestreams and when people reach that part they always repeat this saturated meme over and over. In any video about SA2 you can see people saying about Eggman pissing on the moon, even when the cutscene itself don't even show up (when it shows it's 100% chance that someone will comment about this meme)
With SA2 the speed levels entirely hold up and I can still feel the same energy playing them now as I did when I first played them. Mech Shooting while certainly feeling deeper than SA1's version simply drifts away too much from the sense of speed and light movement that Gamma's had. Yes it feels more like an actual mech, but a lack of realistic weight was never really an issue I had. Its funny that Cosmic Wall actually solves a great deal of my problems with it just by lessening the gravity and making movements feel like less of a chore. That kind of feel throughout all of Tails and Eggman's levels would have made greatly improved my overall thoughts. Treasure hunts also have the same issue of a singular element dampening the playthrough. While I understand its use in a smaller space, a linear radar in a non-linear game space is always going to feel contrived and makes even timely runs in those levels feel closer to luck than skill. its implementation had a logic to it, but I can't help but feel a shorter and focused playthrough of them with the old radar would have been more enjoyable than a longer and more tedious one with the new radar. The section on the appeal of the ranking system I think also explains a lot of my more mixed feelings on SA2 given that I've always been indifferent to getting stuff like S Ranks. I'm glad they're there and they make complete sense as an element to incentivize replayability and skill mastery. However they were always bragging rights rewards to me, and I am glad the creation of something like the Red Rings was later utilized to give replay motivation to those like myself who weren't interested. Overall SA2 is like Unleashed to me. I can really see why its so beloved and respect the depth of its mechanics, its just that a great deal of its most beloved concepts offer little fundamental appeal to me. I suspect that's why I don't lament the lack of return to what it was as strongly as others do. Sonic arguably did have more of a direction around this time, but I can't say it was one I would have been greatly excited for.
To me A ranks are a lot more than bragging rights. I don't care about achievements in video games, but the way you approach the levels is very different for the A ranks. Especially in speed levels, you develop a strategy of which tricks to go for, which rings, etc. You get a very intimate relationship with the level out of it and it feels very rewarding. The gameplay usually is flashy and sanic speed as well when you are pulling off those A ranks. It's a different type if challenge. Emblems also give you more stuff in the chao garden stuff so there is a feeling of progression
@@danielhicks1824 Oh I can definitely see the value in them and it could be said that the system in SA2 really incentivized various methods of play for the various levels. I think its just in my case as someone who saw the Chao Garden as a fun novelty but not something I was big on overall completing, unlockables for it just weren't a big deal to me in that sense. Same with Emblems where the draw of Green Hill Zone in SA2 was cool but not enough to get me to get all of them or avoid using a Game Shark to open it. I bring up the Red Rings specifically because I liked the gradual unlockable progression with special stages in Colors and abilities in Generations. If future Sonic titles did something similar with rankings (where getting an A Rank on a particular level directly opened/unlocked something)? That might honestly have me motivated to try and get them.
Yeah, that makes sense. I *loved* the chao garden, but that type of motivator is hit or miss. I haven't played colors, but that sounds like a good system.
Sonic Adventure 2 feels like the second part to what could have been an iterative trilogy - building on the last entry every time. Sonic Team seems to have gone "Wow, people must not like sequels. Let's just make one-offs forever and have no sense of continuity or integrity ever again."
I grew up loving this game, but it seems like everyone forgets the multiplayer. That’s probably my favorite element of the entire game and the one I definitely played the most with my family growing up (the sonic-esque stages)
Omg all of these hour long sa2 videos are amazing man i could watch a million more of these Jebtube, Ruby of Blue, The Geek Critique, J's Review and now this one which isn't exactly an hour but its close enough All i have to say is after this whole long sa2 video essay trend dies out can we please do this for heroes or sonic riders or like any other sonic game cause honestly the internet needs to stop shitting on sonic for everything when he has had some really good games and i feel that these videos do a great job expressing that and having more videos like this would definitely help the perception of sonics video game legacy
It's great to see people talking about this game in a good light again on youtube. The GC version was my introduction to the sonic series and I still greatly enjoy this game. Though I adored the hunting levels while hating the mech levels; they just felt boring for me.
I'm really happy that you made this video, sa2b was and still is one of my favorite games of all time so I can really appreciate everything said in this video. I just gotta say thank you for talking about this gem of a game.
SA2 is my favorite game when it comes to just playing. I can always sit down and play it, and it is the only game I replay every single year. There's just something so captivating about its gameplay loop that no other game can touch for me. I especially love your closing paragraphs. SA2 was the height of Sonic to me because it had such a strong sense of identity and confidence you don't find in any game before or after it. They were focused on one thing: do Adventure, but better. And that is what I believe carried them to new heights. This was also my first Sonic game I ever played, and man, what an introduction to the character and what his games embody. There was a period of time where Sonic was literally the best thing in the world to me, and it was solely because of this game. Great video. Everything you said is how I feel about it, even if I didn't know it.
when i was a kid i could never beat the last level and i haven’t attempted it again to this day. maybe i should pop the gamecube disc in and give it another shot
Yeah, I can relate. As a kid, I remember 4 distinct times when I got stuck in this game. First one was against the first boss, both in hero and dark story, because I was very young and inexperience with that kind of game. And then, after beating it, I later kinda got stuck with the driving stages (so slippery...). Lastly, it took me a long while to be able to beat the Last Story. But it was mostly because I kept drowning with Knuckles (I didn't know there was a breather upgrade for that in a prior level), and later, because I was unable to beat the Biolizard with Shadow. That second to last boss battle was so hard for my younger self, that I felt so triumphant when I finally manage to beat it.
Bro, that was beautiful. SA2 has always had a special place in my heart and it makes me so happy to hear such a detailed explanation of all the things I love about it!
One thing I can't stop thinking about is Deem Bristow's performance as Eggman. Even compared to his performance in SA1, it's darker. It's deeper. And I'm sad he passed away a few years after this game came out.
Thank You. I think. Again as Sega move on to another Sonic project and say that they're going to give it more time as to make something better, people again echo the words that it will be a Sonic Adventure 3. You say quite realistically that the time and people to make such a game have gone and moved elsewhere. I believe that to be true but still, Adventure 3 or something else, I'd just like a Sonic game that I can enjoy.
People can call this game all the negative things they want. But this game is a masterpiece. It’s flawed yes, all games are flawed, but it’s still so good.
Ostensibly...like, look, I know that Sonic Unleashed gets a lot of backlash because "Werehog...wha??? That isn't Sonic!" But imagine the Night stages being done with a Gamma-like character...global theme, Knuckles-like treasure-hunting stages even if it's for an optional Chaos Emerald power-boost.
Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite game of all time I'm so thankful that so many people have show their support for the game after the Dark times of Adventure-hating Everything about this game gets me Skill required stages, rewarding mechanics, a complete history with Lore, cohesion and stakes, a memorable cast, the soundtrack nuff said, a lot of worthy Side content If SEGA never makes SA3 (which i'm still hoping we get, but a good one) Please remake the Adventure games to modern standards, the game has definitely aged in some areas, but if dated still is my favorite game, now imagine if the game was updated Sorry for my English
I'm glad I finally found a SA2 video that acknowledges how this is pretty much the only 3D Sonic game that has a good incentive to replay it. I would much rather have the hard ranking system and 5 mission structure than collect red rings or medals.
I get what he means by not wanting them to make a literal Adventure 3. Because the people who made the games are mostly gone, and it wouldn't feel right. That being said I feel their legacy should be carried on by new people for a new generation of gamers, an 'Adventure' series for today's gamers y'know. They set a really good foundation with a ton of limitless potential that's not even being touched by Sonic Team, this deserves a place in today's gaming scene.
It really sucks, because Sonic games can still be good fun, but the characters, as you've pointed out, are a far cry to what they used to be. They've morphed into these walking funny haha meme regurgitators instead of...yknow, characters. I have hope that new Sonic games can be as good as SA2, even if it's for not quite the same reason.
Shadow is honestly the worst case. As another retrospective put it, he's basically turned into what people mocked him as back in 2005 A callous jerk who don't need friends and smacks ice cream out of your hand. The only thing good to come out of current Shadow is how they basically acknowledged the Ryuko Shadow meme.
The Sonic and Shadow Rivalry is one of my favorite rivalries in fiction as well There's a lot of cool nuances to how they impact each other. One could even argue that Sonic's heroics is what allowed Amy to get through to him in the end. Sonic would have been blow apart if he didn't take a page from Shadow's book to use Chaos Control. I always noticed a stark difference between how Sonic acted with Shadow in the lead up to their race to their previous encounter on the island. Despite the life or death circumstances Sonic is a lot more playful with Shadow with their back and forth banter instead of just raging and calling him a faker. I think that using Chaos Control- something he copied from Shadow- is the defining moment of their rivalry. Sonic is now coping Shadow- the thing he's been so hung up on this whole time. Knowing that it was Shadow's technique I assume there's an emotional trigger- his memories of Maria and the desire to protect her. Sonic using the same trigger of wanting to protect (in this case the world) opens his eyes a bit to the fact that Shadow is much more than "Evil Sonic"- that he has this strong desire to protect someone or something must mean that he has a heart. Thus he treats Shadow differently for the rest of the story...
I'm never going to stop being obsessed with this game. Whether I'm playing this game or watching a review. It's always the perfect game for the perfect time
Honestly I don't think Shadow's death works. A lot of people say bringing him back was a mistake but from my perspective killing him lacked any thematic weight or tragedy. Hypothetically, if you were to kill Sonic, (which you would never do because Capitalism), Tails, as a character, would lose his best friend, his role model, his guiding star, etc... and would force him to reevaluate himself and find a reason to go on. It would effect him on a deeper level, as it would most of the cast. Everyone would miss Sonic because everyone 'knew' him. Shadow's death, while sad, lacks such a reaction from anyone in the cast because Shadow, being both new and aloof, never really had a chance to relate to anyone. Characters interact with him, sure, but no one is really his 'friend.' No one relies on him or looks up to him or has any real relationship with him, and his death, while saddening to the cast, leading them to have a somber heart to heart with each other on the Ark, is not going to be something they will carry with them from day to day. If anything, it would have been more interesting if Shadow 'didn't' die. Dying the way he did makes sense in a way because his goal of fulfilling his promise to Maria had been completed. From his perspective, he had nowhere else to go. But if he had survived, he'd have to stop and think about what he's going to do with his life now that his past has been recontexualized with his newfound memories. Would he remain with Eggman? Join Sonic? Go on his own? Stay on the Ark as its guardian, forever living in the -->Shadow
I enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1, but I loved Sonic Adventure 2. What I don't understand is the mentality behind Sega's game design and Sonic games ever since transitioning into 3D. In Sonic Adventure 1 it was ''worse'' than Sonic Adventure 2 in this regard, what I don't get is why they feel the need to introduce these other gameplay styles instead of focusing on making the fast paced action with Sonic as good as possible, because let's face it... The Sonic/Shadow sections are MUCH better than the Knuckles/Rouge and Tails/Eggman sections, same with SA1. The fast paced SPEED stages is where Sonic in 3D is as it's strongest. And that goes for Sonic games after this too, I don't get why they feel the need to transition from their fast paced speed action, which is their strenght, into a SLOW side scrolling platform sections. (Not to mention the Werehog...) What I hope to see from Sega and Sonic in the future are games that focus on creating Sonic's fast paced 3D speed action as good as it possibly can be. Sega seems afraid or unsure that it won't be enough, with how they seems to continue to be obsessed with adding other gameplay styles into Sonic games. But I hands down believe if they made a game where all their focus were on creating the best 3D Sonic fast paced action, like Sonic/Shadow's stages from SA2... That would be the best Sonic game ever. That is what I hope to see from a Sonic Adventure 3.
SA2 was one of my first Sonic games and I loved it back then. But, overtime I've come to appreciate the game far more then I ever could as a child. It's one of the most impactful games in the series and we just never get games quite like it anymore.
Huge fan and keep up the good work, but I cannot disagree enough with you on SA2. It does everything SA1 does but worse. Ignoring mods and looking at the game as originally intended, its got atrocious sound mixing, embarrassingly barebones shooting stages, the treasure hunting levels are fundamentally broken, and the speed stages offer almost no replay value or alternate paths. I get this is the "Empire Strikes Back" of Sonic, but when looking at the game objectively, its an absolute mess with almost no redeeming qualities.
I think you're giving the A rank system too much credit. I had more fun playing the game normally and started liking it less with the ranking system, it pushes as much of the bad as the good with the game. A part of the problem is the requirements are too rigid; it's good to have them high enough that I have to learn more about the level and putting a value on that, but it tends to amount to playing the level in a specific way that doesn't offer the same level of player expression as the DMC games. Oh sure, maybe I can ignore a few enemies or take a certain route over another, but as you pointed out the game doesn't really balance out the time bonus with the point bonus to let you approach the level one way or the other, you have to get all the enemies and points that it expects you to get and then reach the goal at a reasonable pace. Maybe you can miss a few guys here and there, but fuck up the 1000 bonus on a style jump cause *apparently* you didn't hit jump at the right part or weren't going at the right speed? Do over. The game just doesn't really give the best feedback on these kind of things (it doesn't even tell you how many points you need). I didn't really have a problem with the camera until grinding out A rank on Final rush and doing all those shitty rails around the 2 minute mark, having to get used to it whipping around and lining sonic up juuuust right so he doesn't fling his stupid ass off again. Or all the other jank you have to deal with in the whole game. Trying to do those hoops in Pyramid Cave? Running in the half pipes in Green Forest and being at a bad angle? Trying to skip the elevator ride as Eggman and hitting against the wall too early, causing him to zip down? Not being able to free look in the treasure hunting levels? Your combo thing dropping in the mech levels (Why doesn't it display a timer? or is it distance based? idk)? Not being able to gauge if you're close enough for sonic/shadow to home in on an enemy or if they'll fling themselves somewhere else? That shitty uppercut move you have to do to break some boxes in the treasure hunting level? Rail switching just not working in Final Rush? Like, these are the things that come up when I was trying to do all the emblems the first time, it's only easy to brush this jank off when you've played the game so much you have things in muscle memory. It's also just a bit too much. Like, sure, A rank on the main level, then have one for 100 rings, or finding a chao. But having to replay a level up to 5 times for all the emblems takes a bit of it's toll, I'm not sure what the point of the time limit is since by then you'll have routed out the whole stage anyway for the earlier rankings, you're just repeating it again. It's kinda overkill that'd only be justified if you were gridning out Chao Garden at the same time, which is it's own weird can of worms. I feel like it'd be fine enough, and even have a better sense of variety, if each level only had 2-3 emblems but the type of missions would swap out with each other.
Hugo Flores it’s rewarding when I don’t have to repeat the same 3 to 8 minutes of gameplay cause I didn’t target enough enemies in a mech level, I guess
While I have always enjoyed SA2 for its presentation, two stories, and overall content (Chao Garden and ranking system especially), I still think SA1 > SA2, mostly since nearly everything SA2 did, especially in terms of game/level design, SA1 did it first, and IMO, did it much better. Sonic/Shadow - While incredibly enjoyable these levels are more like modern takes where it's get from point A to point B in as quickly as possible with no sense of exploration. SA1 did Sonic levels a greater justice IMO. Yes, you can still sprint to the finish, but exploring was encouraged. Tales/Egg man - I thought these levels represented terrible game design. They were slow, mediocre, and too plentiful. There are just as many "shooting" levels in the game as there are Sonic/Shadow levels. E-Gamma's levels were better. For one, he had arguably the best story in SA1 and the count down timing mechanic was a nice touch. Playing as Egg man was cool, but completely breaking the game with Tails in SA1 was sorely missed. Knuckles/Rouge - The radar nerf cripples these stages. Yes, the original levels were too small and Knuckles clearly seemed like an add-on, however, the treasure hunting mechanics were some of the best of SA1. In SA2, the radar limits the player, and in a game where speed runs are plentiful, it's a mechanic that tries to keep the player from attempting such. RNG locations for emeralds isn't a problem if you can find any emerald at a time with your radar, but in SA2 you cant. Amidst all of my criticisms I still highly enjoy this game. The ranking system is nearly perfect, Chao garden is great, and I think the developers did well to get rid of the the Hub world. Upgrades are odd, but again, are the only element that harkens back to classic Sonic exploration. Still a fun game that I would recommend to any Sonic fan, but after replaying both of the Adventure games recently, I feel as though SA2 was incredibly under-whelming in comparison to SA1. Great video as always! Thanks for reading my rant.
It’s really smart how you use the sponsorship as an excuse to talk about the soundtrack. I wish more content creators would employ advertising into a video like this!
Literally the only good SA2 video on youtube, finally Also, Ancient Light is pretty handy in some parts, just hold forward when using it to always target the enemy, plus it bypasses enemies with electric shields, takes you out of ball form so you won't accidentally bounce, super handy in Crazy Gadget
This is still my favorite Sonic game, also. It was only last year, though, that I finally got 100% completion, as the Chao emblems took me eons to finish. It's sad that this was my first experience of Sonic, as none could surpass my expectations for past and future installments.
So strange. I just moved into a wonderful new home. As a result, I made a point to go back and finally Complete SA2B. Today, I made my first Chaos Chao finally. And then, this video drops while Im doing this. Perfect timing for me to watch this whole thing.
I try really hard to like the game play of adventure 2, but the fact that you can't turn into a ball as Sonic while you're moving is very frustrating to the point where it almost makes sonic levels unplayable. And honestly it really upsets me that nobody ever says anything about that, if you can't turn into a ball while going downhill to gain speed, then you're not really playing a Sonic game, and the people not realizing that the core part of Sonic's gameplay is missing makes me wonder if they ever understood the games in the first place.
@@sanglish18 doing a spindash isn't the same as rolling into a ball on demand to keep momentum going and gaining speed downhill. Your response tells me that you do not even understand what I am talking about
@@Nagasakevideo Uhh no, it's the same thing, SA1 and SA2 is my most played game ON MY LIFE, the spin dash works exactly the same, you just can't spam it, but you can perfectly use it downhill without loosing your momentum. If NO ONE complains about that then I think you're holding for too long so that sonic stops while charging. You can use downhill, stop and charge speed to jump through other areas, everything I do in SA1 I can in SA2.
I can't believe he went through listing different characters' styles of music but never mentioned the knuckles raps
knuckles rap was just the best
Pumpkin hill is top 10 video game songs of all time
I ain't gonna let it get to me
@@Platonic69 I'm just gonna creep
@@yungthunder2681 I don't think I could go that far, but it is a stand out track in his set for sure. That backing instrumental is extremely nostalgic and catchy.
I will never get tired of People Talking about Sonic Adventure 2. Just send me all the Sonic Adventure 2 videos and I'll watch it.
sa2 is so interesting to talk about because everyone has different things they like and hate about it. you can ask five people the same question and get five different results
Same
That's me with Twilight Princess and Legend of Dragoon, but the latter doesn't get a lot of love.
What about the clowns that formed the hate trend trying to claim that SA2 sucks and only 1/3 is playable, the "Sonic was never good" people?
Because I'm tired of how much I hear from those people...
You can put me in the same boat, can never get enough in retrospectives honestly. There’s many povs that I can’t pull my ears away from it
We never got a sonic adventure 3
Sonic 06: Am i a joke to you?
Everyone: Yes
Sonic Heroes is SA3. It takes place directly after SA2, is placed in the same era as SA1 and SA2 in Generations, has a chao and Big in it, plays similarly to the adventure games or at least more than any other sonic game, has the same voice actors, and SA2 hinted at Sonic Heroes, and there are 3 circles on the logo of Sonic Heroes.
anything not titled sa3 isn't sa3 imo
@@mbdg6810 Why is Jurrassic World Jurassic Park 4 then? Why is Avengers Infinity War Avengers 3 then?
Why is Jurrassic Park The LostWorld Jurrassic Park 2 then?
@Spaceman Alph thank you for explaining that in the detail you did :)
Seems like a huge part of the game’s success was Sonic team actually making a direct sequel that fleshed out the original’s good ideas, instead of tossing it all and coming up with something new and unproven.
If Sonic Team had just focused on SA3 rather than Heroes and Shadow and 06 we might have had a serious legacy on our hands. Instead Sonic Team put all their energy into reinventing the wheel over and over til nobody was sure what they even liked about the series anymore.
@@normalgrahamGive me a Heroes and 06 blend with polish and it’s better I think. They were right there. Sonic 06 might be… Sonic 06… but Sonic 07 would’ve been amazing.
@@normalgraham they can reinvent the wheel over and over with spinoffs but if only and if ONLY Sonic Team stook to their existing guts, who knows what kind of timeline we would've lived on
I still come back to this game consistently for the Chao Garden alone, and every time I return to it I realize that the rest of the game is better than I remember it. It’s probably my most played GameCube game next to Kirby Air Ride
Kirby Air Ride is amazing as well
sa2 and kirby air ride are probably my 2 most played as well but i hate both of them lol.
Especially the emerald hunting, fuck that
The Sonic Adventure games and Super Smash Bros. Melee are the games I played the most on Gamecube.
I've put so many hours into the Chao Garden that it's ridiculous. I really miss it.
@@machine1685 There’s nothing stopping you from returning to it my friend. I emulate SA2B on the Wii U and it runs beautifully. Played it a ton over the summer. I highly recommend returning to it
I don't need a game to be perfect, I just need it to be fun. And Sonic Adventure 2, is pretty damn fun
Same.
it’s even fun quoting the Green Forest cutscene
BLOWS UP?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Me with Generations
@@murt. don’t say that you’ll get ambushed by Adventure fans.
Not for me. SA1 is way more fun.
Thanks for the radar discussion at 14:40. It really is a more nuanced design issue than people realize. Some stages needed the SA1 style radar to be less annoying while the SA2 radar prevented others from turning into a total cakewalk. I honestly enjoy the treasure hunting in these games quite a bit and would like to see an attempt to improve and modernize them a little. They're heavily flawed but they honestly get too much of a bad rap.
(edit) 23:44 THANK YOU! So far SA2 is honestly the only game that nailed the ranking system to me. Unleashed did it OK from what I remember and I'd almost say that Heroes did as well but the level lengths and punishment for dying killed it in conjunction with that game's jank. It just feels superfluous in Generations since it's way too generous and doesn't demand much from the player. The ranking systems for 3D Sonic should reward not just speed but style as well so that the games can add more depth and replayability to their otherwise short levels.
Hi Doc! And yeah I really do like the treasure hunters’ stages to and I’ve always like Sonic’s gameplay and all but I’ve always wanted to see what an evolution of the hunters’ play styles could look like
Yeah, i've never really gotten why people say that the ranking got better in the later games when if anything they just gimped it so literally anybody could get S ranks. They might as well have just removed them entirely since SA2 is about the only game that understands why and how they should work. Also, you would be correct in saying that Sonic Unleashed's was ok since, while it did reward more speedier play than anything else, you did still need to engage with large parts of the levels in order to get the S rank.
Linear order in mini open world stages is simply ridiculous and there is no excuse for that, if they really wanted to make the levels less of a cakewalk compared to SA1, then *make the level design less of a cakewalk* .
Is just cheap, lazy and straight padding, thankfully, there is the SA2 port for PC and fans already fixed the mech and Knuckles/Rouge gameplay with mods or cheat codes.
Now you can have gamma physics and movement for the mech stages, the radar is now non-linear for the Knuckles/Rouge Open World stages.
There's no way to fix Sonic or Shadow's overall gameplay being such a downgrade from SA1, unless the level design changes and the movement too.
If the vainilla game didn't have these problems, then it can beat SA1, Sonic Mania as my favorites.
For now, SA2 is below Sonic 3&K for me.
@@makotoyuki345 I liked the treasure hunting levels themselves, sad that the radar ruined many of them, the gimmicks were also great and brings a nice change of pace, specially compared to the recycled Sonic levels for Knuckles in SA1.
Both SA1&SA2 complement each other, both are equally flawed, choosing one over the other is simply a personal preference (SA1 still has the better overall music with SA2 very close).
Okay, let's accept that the smaller stages being something when you first see them is a valid argument for the weakened radar. There's a simple solution I've not seen anyone mention. Just make the goddamn treasure scope and sunglasses return the better radar in addition to their current effect.
Bang. The small stages are still a thing the first time you see them, bigger levels are less annoying, AND the least appreciated power boosts get a big utility boost. Kill the entire flock of birds with one stone.
I’ll just say it: SA2 is the gold standard for replay value in a video game
this is my 4th time breaking and purchasing SA2 and i will do it 5 million more times. it is just that good.
This game is great. It is indeed flawed but still a great game
Ikr.
But I hate pumpkin mountain.
@ELI BONHAM
Pumpkin Hill.
Specially if you wanna get a max stat chaos chao.
Was just listening to this again 6 months later as background noise and I just had an idea regarding the radar system. What if the radar allowed you to sense each emerald on the stage all at once but the radius for sensing each one starts out somewhat small. Finding an emerald/key item would then increase the radar's strength, letting you begin to sense the remaining emeralds from further away. Ideally, this system would make it so that with each emerald you find the remaining ones become a lot easier to pinpoint. You'd get an additional sense of progression in each stage with this, possibly creating a good sense of flow (would need to test this first). Maybe it would also help to increase the number of pieces to find in conjunction with the radar change.
I think the hunting game play is a neat idea but flawed it really breaks the pace of the game like putting a puzzle in the middle of a halo game and would much prefer they give knuckles somthing similar to the wearhog stages from unleashed but like half or a quarter of yhe length
@@Bobb11881 combat is inherently faster than exploration by the nature of it being non exploratory im not saying 30 min lvls like unleashed but like a little 5 min combat segment would be more fun imo
@@Bobb11881 to put a time limit on exploring is the opposite of good exploration but a good beatemup section could be alot of fun. Games like dishonored are alot better suited to exploration based puzzles and hunting but sonic is an action platformer and its so weird to have a section about not action or platforming but running in circles until you give up amd look at a monitor
@@Bobb11881 there isnt an actual time limit but the scoring system is time based so clearly the game encourages speed and i know that wearhog was slow but that doesn't mean it cant be sped up and or make the levels shorter as i think the real problem was that there was 80 min levels of wearhog and 2 min sonic levels but knuckles doesn't have the expectation of speed so a slightly slower section wouldn't be as bad as when you are sonic the whole time and keeping it limited also dosen't take away from the main (sonic experience)
@@Bobb11881 slower physically yes but i don't think anyone would call dmc or Bayonetta slow games and i hear your issues with the gameplay from unleashed but im not advocating for a 1 to 1 here i think the idea was good but the excution was the problem starting with sonic has a character comes with that expectation of speed and going slow as sonic is frustrating
Wow, this video was incredibly well done, as always. I never really thought about the treasure hunting levels that much, so hearing you talk about it in detail was like really eye opening.
Your vids are definitely becoming a highlight in my subfeed. Keep up the awesome work, KingK!
omg are you the guy who uploaded the undertale soundtrack?!?!?
I'm glad more people are coming out with how much they love games like Sonic Adventure 2,Heroes,and Unleashed.
Unleashed is basically the Starwars Episode 3 of the franchise. It used to be hated but in retrospect isn’t really bad
@@theminecraft2516 I think the game is a solid B+.If the Night stage's lengths were cut by just half It'd be A+.
@@speedsterx8452 Most Werehog levels are actually only like 15 or 20 minutes. The reason why they last more than that is because of the medal collecting. So I say it’s the medal collecting that holds it back. And on my first playthrough it was hard finding out where to go next in the hub worlds because of the pacing. Everything else is pretty fun in my opinion
@@theminecraft2516 I agree,but in my opinion 15-20 min is a litte too long.I think think the perfect length for a Sonic level is 3-5 min.Mybe the night stage's could've been 7-10?And everything else in the game is amazing!
@@speedsterx8452 Ehh, the perfect length of a boost stage is 3-5 minutes but I really like the level length and depth of Sonic Heroes levels when they are like 8 minutes long
Sonic Adventure 2 is one of those games where everyone has something to say about it. Every review I see on SA2 has a ton to say on the game, good or bad.
But generally it’s good
SA2 is good and flawed like SA1, Sonic 3 and Mania. Sonic games don't have an Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess equivalent sadly.
@Shaman Xeed oot still holds up now but if argue ds1 and bloodborne are genuine masterpieces, the others are solid but not as good. Majoras mask is probably the best zelda game and stands the test of time the best, due to its narrative alone.
@@saricubra2867 Are you serious or joking?
1. OOT and Sonic are 2 different styles
2. Every game is flawed. SM64 had it's shitty camera + lackluster story, OOT had it's slow gameplay + Water Temple, etc... Just because a game is flawed doesn't mean it's bad.
3. Everyone loved S3&K and Mania what the fuck are you talking about
@@the1whoplayz 1. They are still videogames.
2. You mean OOT's N64 awful framerate (i can get the slow gameplay here), but it has aged really well specially when Zelda nowadays is basically another traveling sim like the other AAA developers.
3. Mania is severely overrated, only 4 original levels, the rest are rehashes of the originals, as a Sonic fan myself, it's like they learned nothing from Sonic Generations and using nostalgia again.
The small screen space for Sonic 3&K hurts the enemy visibility and the framerate is all over the place on the Genesis, also it has some bad levels (Marble Garden Zone).
The best 4 Sonic games are all flawed and those flaws are bigger than those 2 Zelda games combined.
This perfectly encapsulates all of my thoughts on this game. Couldn't have said it any better.
Love the vids Team APS! Keep up the great content!
Checkmark spotted
Nani, didn't expect a yugituber here lol.
Sonic should be an archetype
@@bobbybero7452 speed warrior lol
Shadow’s speech of “Maria, I just don’t know anymore...” sounds like Anakin from the prequel trilogy. I love it lol
Hell from the future, it’s really funny you said this because Hayden Christensen is rumored to be Shadow’s voice in the upcoming Sonic 3 movie lol. Don’t know if that rumor holds any weight but I would love if it ends up true
Sonic Adventure 2 is a more mechanically deep, sophisticated take on the Adventure series, combo systems, rankings, mission variety - all of these specific elements allow for different playstyles to manifest in ways that its predecessor attempted, but often struggled with. When I think of SA2, the first word I think of is streamlined, from the level progression to the levels themselves, this game ultimately feels like the developers better understood translating 2D game design in a three dimensional space. Today SA2 is dated, but back when it released, it was truly something special to behold and put a smile on my face. Here's hoping (if the Sonic Adventure remake rumors are true) that one day a remake of SA2 will soon be awaiting us in the near future...
Hello, Sonic Adventure 2 disliker here. I have to say that your analysis of this game really gave me a newfound appreciation for it. There are things I enjoy about the game, but there are many more things that I don't. While I still don't like those things, hearing you explain thought processes behind certain decisions made for the game and why you personally like them helped me realize why someone might love SA2. Things I usually regard as flaws can just as easily be seen by someone else as strengths. I've usually just chalked it up to "nostalgia blindess" or whatever, but I've come to see it from a new perspective. Even if it's not what _I_ love about Sonic, Sonic Adventure 2 still has a lot to love about it.
What you said.
Perfect analysis of this game
It feels so refreshing to finally see positive reviews of Sonic Adventure 2 after years of where it felt like there was nothing but negativity towards the game.
All Sonic games were negative after content creators ran out of Rise Of Lyric reviews
Its almost like most of the reviewers suck at games and dont actually understand the game's design...
@@Shikojen IGN thought Sonic Colors was “too hard”. 🤣😂🤣🤣 Sonic Colors the game that was meant for 6 year olds was considered “too hard” for IGN. 🤣🤣 And it gets even better,...
IGN removed a whole point from Sonic Colors because of that!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So it could have gotten a 9/10 but IGN completely sucked at it!! 😂😂😂😂😂
People bring down every Sonic game as the years go by
Sonic Generations went from “Fantastic” to alright
Sonic Colors went from Good to bad
Sonic 06 went from bad to “one of the worst games ever made” lmao shovelware exists
I noticed this cycle because anytime a bad game comes out they just lower the quality of the other games and it’s kinda stupid.
But this game is bad lmao I just don't see what people like here
I’ve come to make an announcement...
...I, too, still love this game to this day.
Without SA2, we wouldn't have the treasure that is Real Time Fandub Games.
Is that a snapcube reference? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?
oh god a Snapcube reference. God it was funny the first time but now it's been repeated so many times that it's getting on my nerves
@@ryanm8529 Agreed. There will be no pissing on the moon here. That moon got blown up, damn it.
Bro Sa2 is the best
Great video, you touched on a lot of things most SA2 reviews don't. The rank system is such an integral part of the game, I'd kill for a Sonic game that went even further with that with a full tony hawk esque trick system and more multipliers that has a visual style meant to match the graffeti inspired Sonic Adventure art. That being said, I think you glossing over the Chao garden meant you missed a major element of how the rank system is encouraged and is synenergized with: Both the rank system, the missions, AND the Chao garden all encourage replability in a feedback loop, with the need for rings and chaos drives and animals giving you even more incenvtizes then the ranks and alt missions already do to replay the main stages.
And yeah, I also don't mind the Radar changes, and I prefer the larger levels, though I do think that it would have been worth noting how the genre choice for Rouge and Knuckle's stages compliments the more open-ended design of that playstyle: Both the smooth rap and jazz gives their stages a much more laid back feel that makes you want to spend time in them, rather then rush THOUGH them like the more energic Sonic, Shadow, and even Tails and Eggman themes do. I gotta say I disagree about Mad Sapce being good, though, the gravity mechanic truly does suck there, and on the flip side, I think Cosmic wall is easily the best mech stage, despite it's rail shooter sections. Even without movement control, timing lock ons is still engaging, and the low gravity high jumps make the stuff you do control all the more fun.
In terms of writing, you touched on how Shadow isn't actually that different from Sonic, and he wasn't really edgy in this game. but I don't think you went quite far enough on this point. To expand on it, Shadow isn't dark Sonic, he's Sonics'... well, Shadow. In fact, his original name, Terios, meant "Mirror" (or "making wishes come true" which is sort of a major theme in his arc):He's meant to be a twisted reflection of Sonic.
To quote a comment by
@Archive Cat on TGC's Shadow the Hedgehog review: "Shadow's calm and collected, he's cocky and cracks one liners, and his ego is three times the size of his head. All stuff just like the blue blur. It's why the faker scene in SA2 is so funny, it's these two massive unflinching egos trying to out-ham each other. It's all the same cockiness and charm of Sonic wrapped up in a smoother voice
"
And to further extrapolate, on the one difference there is between Shadow and Sonic, the "Smoother voice": Sonic was designed to be the epitome of 90's radical-ness. He's energetic, cheesy, over the top, and sarcastic. Shadow was introduced in the very late 90's, bordering on the early 2000's: In the early 2000's, what was cool wasn't earnest 'tude, but rather aloof stoicness: THAT'S what Shadow is. Shadow in SA2 is a different interpretation on Sonic, with the same philosophical core to his character, just expressed in a different way.
Also, I'm a bit dissapointed you didn't touch on some of the lore implications that SA2 has in it's plot, which are actually intentional, as confirmed by the game's writer on twitter: In a Japanese guidebook, there's a report from Rouge (combined with dialog in the Japanese script) calls into question if the Shadow we see in game is the actual finalized result of Project Shadow (since Gerald was apparently still working on the project even after/during the Ark was sieged and Shadow was allegedly captured) or a prototype/replica, with altered or fabricated memories. In fact, Sonic X, which frequently used cut plot points, even had TWO capsules fired down from the Ark, not just one with Shadow.
Furthermore, we see through the Artificial Chaos enemies, the Ancient Echidna/Maya iconography around the Eclipse Cannon's control center and the Cannon's Core, and the Chaos Drives which power the GUN enemies that Gerald Robontik was studying Angel Island and the Master/Chaos emeralds as well as Chaos himself (all of which was confirmed in Sonic Battle)(, which has made people theorize that Shadow is based on the Super Sonic mural. Lastly, During the final fight against the Final Hazard, if you take long enough, it also is stated by Shadow that he';s having trouble keeping his super form up, wheras Sonic is doing fine, which is why Shadow ends up dying at the end of the game; and that he thinks SONIC is the ultimate life form.
There's a few potential ways to interperet all of this: The most basic is that the Biolizard is the prototype and Shadow is the final result, and his memories were just altered by Gerald to make him think Maria wanted revenge instead of the people of Earth to be happy so Shadow would execute Gerald's revenge plot, and that his comments of Sonic being the Ultimate Life Form was just him saying Sonic is better then he is, or that if Shadow was indeed based on the Super Sonic mural, that Sonic is the propheized ultimate life form that Shadow was an attempt at creating by Gerald.
But the more interesting possibility is that Shadow IS an earlier prototype or replica: Either created after the ARK incident/while Gerald was on earth in Prison Island (hence why Shadow was also stored there), with totally fabricated memories (Something the Sonic X anime implies); or that he was a prototype left on the ARK which was then captured by GUN as the capsule was sent down by Maria, while Gerald continued his work and made the Final Shadow; or that there were in fact TWO capsules sent down (again, something Sonic X implies by showing two capsules), and that with all of these, the actual final result of Project Shadow is in fact...….. Sonic himself: This is supported by both Shadow's comment, other dialog in game with Shadow questioning just who Sonic is and how he's "just not a normal hedgehog" and can use Chaos Control, and Sonic himself, with him pondering the concept of an "ultimate life form" during the credits.
Sadly, all of this intentional ambiguity (the main writer of SA2 was asked about all this on twitter and said it was intended to be open ended) and conflicting information was thrown out the window after Sonic Team shifted gears and brought SHadow back in the dead and wanted a less serious story for Sonic Heros; with the Second Capsule idea being retconned into Emerl from Sonic Battle being sent down, and then in Shadow the Hedgehog Shadow's origin was retconned into the alien-black doom stuff; though some elements of the question of if Shadow is real or not remains with the whole "hall of Shadow replicas" stuff in Heros and then his identity crisis stuff in Shadow.
Anyways, you can really sort of tell that this was intended to be the ultimate, final Sonic game in case after Sega's hardware division went down the software division did too: Eggman and Sonic teaming up to take down a bigger foe, Eggman actually chilling out and talking with tails, and a possible origin given for Sonic himself.
Sonic X never implied Sonic was the Ultimate Lifeform because of how much of a stretch that would have been. Keep in mind the time difference was the only way it could have been possible thanks to Sonic's Age & that was only created for Sonic X Season 3. Before Sonic Heroes revealed he was still alive, I always believed that Shadow survived because he was the Ultimate Lifeform. Still you're right about it being intended as the last Sonic Game thanks to the way it ended & it being the last Sonic Game on Sega Hardware.
It was the last Dreamcast game, that’s why it focused so much on the story. You could call everything else a soft reboot
The idea of Sonic being Gerald's true Ultimate Lifeform REALLY doesn't sit well with me. It would imply that Sonic was given all of his power instead of being strong on his own and that genetic engineering is the only way to be as strong as he is, giving everyone else no chance to match him period as well as implying that technology can only be fought with technology even though Sonic was supposed to give nature hope. It REALLY diminishes his cool factor in that regard besides throwing the overall Sonic story for a loop and a half. It's bullshit like this that tanked Sonic storytelling and gameplay as well since now his friends HAVE TO do TOTALLY different shit instead of being allowed to be variations on Sonic himself to spice up his own gameplay. Honestly, Tails makes for a better example of how nature and technology don't have to be at odds since his abilities are a mix of both without him being artificial, and he had the best chance of succeeding Sonic before SA2 fucked up everything. Shadow can stay as an outright merger of both. I do NOT want Maekawa writing for Sonic unless he understands the series in and out, which he clearly doesn't, most likely due to being misinformed by Iizuka.
@@CarbonRollerCaco so... Because of a theory... That somehow tanked Sonic storytelling...? How? It's quite literally an interpretation given by info from the story. The gameplay thing couldn't have worked in a 3d translation, and I commend sega for trying to adapt the gameplay rather than try to copy what the 2d games did, which results in products like megamanX7
I’m glad we’re past the automatic stigma of sonic adventure 2 automatically being classed as a bad game. I can come back to it 20 years later and still have a great time every time.
Yea I recently downloaded the full story sa2 mod and it's like my dream come true (this is usually how I play the game anyways-I would just swap between the stories to keep it chronological anyways.) Just a few mods here and there really polish up the game for me and it's so much fun to play all of these stages again each time. I love this game
This game is tied with Mario Sunshine for being my favorite 3D platformer
My favorite is the Mario galaxy duology
I REALLY appreciate your dedication to highlighting the replayability of SA2. So much SA2 focus tends to come from a sole observation of the story, how it works as a single playthrough in comparison to a single playthrough of Sonic Adventure, the "game review" retrospective of SA2 with maybe a mention to replaying City Escape or Radical Highway a few times due to the Chao Garden. What I love about SA2, and what you capture so well, is how it modernizes the ideas of mastery instilled by the classic series and translates it into 3D. By adding these different objectives to linear levels, it creates that sense of flow in a way similar to Crash time crates and Tony Hawk levels, encouraging the player to get better and fulfill objectives. And then setting up a side game to encourage them to go back into stages to get more emblems to get more chaos drives to get stronger chao to get more emblems. It's a very early 2000's way of establishing that replayability, but damn does it ever go for it and establish the game's personality so strongly due to it. Definitely one that I personally prefer to the classic series (though I'll freely admit that's also because of how comparatively loose and freeform the Adventure games feel control-wise), at least. And whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything here (bro Cosmic Wall's a Top 5 level in this game whatchu talking about Eggman go speen everyone dies), I really appreciate the depth of thought that goes into dissecting the game's mechanics beyond a pure analysis of its game feel. SA2's one of those few Sonic projects that clicks together in a way just past "yup Sonic feels good, level design is good, good Sonic game", and it made for a really enjoyable watch to see that illustrated.
But also the best line is "Because you just told me, fox boy" get outta here with this sayonara junk.
i'm not even a fan of the chao garden experience and i think it's stupid it's not in more games. it's a surprisingly deep and complicated system to spend your time, rings, and rewards in and it gives you a constant reason to replay stages. maybe if it was a bit divorced from 100% completion (maybe tying cosmetics to it over emblems) i'd be a lot less negative on it
also chao garden has a 10/10 aesthetic
@@antant6217 Same, I never really cared about Chao Garden but I can't deny Sega is sitting on a huge pile of money and don't even seem to realize it. Now that they're going through a sort of economic crisis they could really use some of that money with a Chao Garden for phones or something. But then again, this is Sega we're talking about.
@@inendlesspain4724 like seriously i can name a lot of people that would buy chao garden on its own on switch or mobile
sega doesn't like money
KingK doesn't know what grungy is I guess? Shadow's soundtrack is more reminiscent of industrial stuff.
It's still grungy though.
By Grungy I assume he meant the same mood and atmosphere but Shadow isn't really at that
definitely! WIsh theyd kept the industrial music for his other appearances, as much as i love "i am all of me"
"There was a time where this blue hedgehog was the center of my whole world." I feel this so much.
After watching I really feel like we almost got identical opinions and feelings on this game. It is kind of sad that we never got Aventure 3 but hey, let's be happy that we were able to experience SA2 as it has obviously given us so much joy and pleasure like almost no other game ever did.
It's so refreshing to see a video about SA2 that recognizes how good it is, instead of "DAE SA2 ACKSHULLY SUCCCCCKS?!?!"
I get so sick of, "Oh, well, SA2 was good AT THE TIME."
Nope, it's just good. It's still good. It has flaws, but it's good.
It does
@Johannes Brahms Okay, I still think it's best Sonic game as far as I'm concerned. Incase you're wondering why I hadn't gave my reasons it, is because you're not my priority, and since going over literally everything, which is time consuming
@Johannes Brahms You're free to think that, despite being wrong
@Johannes Brahms Also, imagine playing Sonic game, where you barely get to play as Sonic
@Johannes Brahms I do, or at the very least taking his playstyle and adding uniques features to it. Something like the classic games and Mania did well
I really feel your closing words in this retrospective. It truly does seem like after Adventure 2 (and arguably Heroes) they truly lost any idea of who these characters were, and how the gameplay should progress.
Sonic in Adventure 1&2 really did seem like the perfect characterization for him. A cocky, flawed, but brave hero who says what he thinks, but doesn't say more than he needs to. After Heroes, it really feels like they tried too hard to give him stuff to say. And the rest of the characters really became cheerleaders for the blue boy, rather than their own thing. In terms of gameplay, the series has definitely steered much more towards raw speed rather than (in my opinion) the more interesting flow and momentum based gameplay design. Now it's all about going fast, but Adventure 1&2 were about how you kept that speed up and used your abilities to keep the flow.
And lastly, I agree that Adventure 3 should probably never happen. I love BioShock, but I am not excited at all for the BioShock 4 news I've heard rumors of. Sometimes what makes some things truly great, is that they die great, not live on into mediocrity.
Sayonara, Sonic Adventure...
Still hurts...It still hurts, especially since SEGA has yet to re-release the Sonic Adventure games on Switch.
Id be excited if someone talented was making an sa3. It's all about who is making a hypothetical sa3 imo. I think there are correct answers. Whether or not sega would be caoable of finding thsoe ppl and giving them resources is another quwstion of course...
I think Unleashed and even Black Knight actually characterized Sonic incredibly well. Yeah, he’s not as cocky as he used to be, but it’s still there, while showing more of his noble nature of helping those in need. It still feels like Sonic. Just a more mature Sonic, for lack of a better term.
That, and they had an actually good writer on the team for those two games. Then the staff changed in 2010 and... well, we all know how it’s been since.
@@SilverSpireZ Black Knight had the same writer as SA2, so it's not too surprising in that department.
@@SilverSpireZ If I see one more person on RUclips hate on the writers of the 2010s games I’m gonna scream and storm off.
The ending of this really resonated with me. Especially the line about wishing to be able to return to understanding where sonic will end up in the future soon. Great video, love this retrospective.
I'm honestly amazed I just watched an entire 47 minute long video about Sonic Adventure 2 and didn't hear Pumpkin Hill play even for one second.
it was in there
13:09
I ain't gonna let get to me I'm just gonna creep
Down in Pumpkin Hill I gots' to find my lost piece
Pretty refreshing for a retrospective video covering Sonic Adventure 2 to not do that, if you ask me.
It really was a staggering decision to completely rip out the aesthetic, mechanical, and narrative strides they'd made through the Adventure games and opt for the direction that resulted in Heroes. It's so frustrating that their attempt to get back on track and evolve those elements for 06 remains radioactive.
All the edge, the direction, and potential for nuance has been gone ever since. I understand people like boost; I liked Sonic Rush too, but lifting boost into the mainline games was only ever a band-aid to a larger problem, which was that they didn't know where to take the fundamental design anymore; it's quite clear now that it was never going to be sustainable. I still think Adventure's core concepts are worth revisiting, if only to re-establish a new baseline for the 3D games going forward, but Sonic Team has made every indication over the past 14 years that they're not up to it. All they seem to be able to do anymore are tone deaf and tired references to when this series had any ambition and spirit at all. But Sonic Team doesn't even officially exist anymore, so maybe this could be an opportunity for new blood. At the same time, I suspect the brand has found a comfortable position in catering specifically to very young children, so there can't be much impetus to revitalize it if it means potentially losing that market.
This series is such a bummer because it peaked so early; the inherent promise of its design and its aesthetic potential are still so unique, but every release feels like a clueless betrayal. But I'll always be glad we got games like Adventure 2.
tl;dr I loved the video. Your passion, reverence, and understanding were intimate and relatable. Thanks.
dude, trying to root for another improved adventure game after Adventure 2 has become a frustration as a huge fan who wants what they did for that game and improving it ten times fold.
We could've had another Sonic 3&K esque game
0:13 Let's Get To It
1:23 One of the best sequels ever seen
2:18 City Escape
4:16 Green Forest/Radical Highway
6:54 Pyramid
7:38 Gamma --> Tails/Eggman Levels
10:56 Hidden Base
11:49 Treasure Hunting with Knuckles and Rouge
14:45 The Master Emerald Shard Radar
17:08 The Soundtrack
Rock jams, Grunge Rock, Jazz Fusion
20:00 The Ranking System - a rewarding process
25:00 Speedrunning
26:24 The Extra Missions (when you get an A on the regular level, you unlock a 100 coin challenge, then find the chao, and so on)
27:43 Power Ups
30:22 The Chao Garden
31:51 No Hub World in this game
34:33 Hero Story Plot
35:57 Character Analysis 37:26 Shadow
38:38 The Last Story 40:26 The Final Hazzard 41:03 The Ending
43:08 Incredible Game, Not Perfect 44:43 And yet it is still golden
46:24 Modern Sonic feels aimless, unclear. Unlike this game, which had definitiveness.
Thanks man!
I'm on the opinion that Shadow should have stayed dead after this game. Like you said, it was a good moment, but that moment got ruined when Shadow came back due to the power of popularity and now all he does is stand around and be a fan service character.
Funnily enough, I think 06 has the best portrail of Shadow. He's moved on from Maria and is working for GUN for some.. reason? Nonetheless though, as much as 06's story sucked ass, Shadow at least was his own character instead and had his own importance to the shitty story instead of being the fan service card that he is today.
We need 06 Shadow's personality to return
He works for G.U.N. because he's willing to put his past grudges behind him for the sake of humanity's protection.
You know how many clones of shadow we saw in Heroes... he’ll never stay dead.
Hopefully though, the next clone they roll out has a developed personality. (I got frustrated with the broken mess that was 06 and never played it enough to know what shadow is like in that one...)
@@mikewinans5091 If you are aware of Project-06, you can wait for that to finish if you want a playable experience.
Shadow the hedgehog the game, ruined his character.
In heroes shadow was fine
Sonic Adventure 2 is so great even in spite of it’s flaws, sadly I think that after 06 his legacy and reverence is forever dead. Sonic Adventure 2 reminds me of a time where Sonic was still the rival of Mario, my favorite gaming franchise, and was/still is my favorite video game of all time. Awesome video, can’t wait for more content.
@Xavior he also had 2 of the worst, most unfinished games of all time in less than a decade with 06 and Boom in 2014, and the 2 mainline games of the 2010s, Lost World and Forces, are both undeniable 4/10s. those undid any confidence people had from games like Unleashed and Gens.
his reputation is still very, very low and Mania + a movie won’t just magically fix that. he isn’t dead yet, but if the next mainline game isn’t atleast an 8/10, he might as well be. he can’t survive on Manias and movies
@Xavior he’s already dead to many people. he literally can not survive another bad game
@Xavior sales have been steadily declining. 06 and boom did impact very negatively
@Xavior lol poor sales doesn’t mean a franchise will die? okay delusional
Some people think SA2 undoubtedly did everything better than SA1, some think SA1 undoubtedly did everything better than SA2. That's what I always found interesting about discussing these games.
I think thats the generational gap. The fans who played sonic before SA2 tend to prefer SA1 and those that started with SA2 tend to see it as the better game. This isnt 100% true but i have noticed this trend over the years.
25:10 Weird flex, but ok
(seriously, nice achievement)
Classic Sonic and Colors fans: "Why do people keep talking about the adventure series?"
Me: "Because it's better!"
The Adventure Games were the best, while 2010s Decade was the worst as far as Sonic Games are concerned. The "Just Sonic" mentality was a mistake from the start, although what Colors to 2020 did to the stories & the characters themselves was unforgivable. We can only hope we get to see a return to form next year, the Sonic Series is running out of chances.
This game honestly still bangs to this day
It does. I love this game. Between one and two its a tough choice but I love them both.
Yeah, this game is great!
Hell yeah. But imagine if this game came out yesterday, with just better graphics but the exact same gameplay. It would be such a huge flop, people are way too over critical over games these days and reviewers would tear it to shreds.
@@addictedtoRS Yeah, you know how much critics hate guitars in video game osts
@@addictedtoRS You bring up a pretty good point, it was good for it’s time. It would be cool to see a remake the refines the gameplay and graphics.
Sonic Adventure 2 really threw a learning curve at me. I played through the story once and thought “well that was rough around the edges.” I eventually came back to get all emblems and I thought “well that was fun, I like this game a lot more now than I did before.” Then I did the same thing again and thought “holy shit this is one of my favorite Sonic games WHAT?”
I can’t explain what’s so inescapable about the game. I still think about it even though I never grew up with it. There’s something about how rough some of it is that makes it endearing. I love Sonic & Shadow cutting each other’s lines off. I love getting A ranks, I love just thinking about it. It’s a game that just puts it’s heart out there. There’s no need for a meta-textual meme joke, there’s no need to ridicule it’s own series’ history, it’s just a wholesome game that lets those mistakes be as they are. For as flawed as it is, I think that’s what makes so many people still love it, talk about it, share it, enjoy it. Sonic Adventure 2 is just one of those games. Great video as always King!
The length of this video reminds me of somthing...
Oh yes it was the time it takes me to do a knuckles stage
Savage, duck
@@brianmidkiff5408 yes?
Sonic Adventure 2 was the second game I owned on the gamecube and I love it, despite how rough it can be at times
Luigi's Mansion, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, and Pikmin were the first games I owned for Gamecube, if I remember correctly.
I remember the order of the first 7 I got for the GameCube after that it becomes blurry.
1. Luigi's Mansion
2. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
3. Some Tarzan game (it sucked)
4. Super Mario Sunshine
5. Super Smash Brothers Melee
6. Pikmin
7. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.
And a library of others after. I doubled down on the 6th gen consoles. The eras of the 4th, 5th, and 6th were the greatest imo.
This is honest to God on the level of in-depth analysis as Somecallmejohnny's video all those years ago. I still remember how utterly impactful that video was to the general perception of Sonic Adventure 2 and how other RUclipsrs like ProJared further drove that point home by pointing out the flaws of it from aging over the years. But videos like this and The Geek Critique give it the thorough dive into what makes this game one of the best out there.
That's not to say this game doesn't have it's flaws. The radar system and the RNG placement of the emeralds still never makes a playthrough of those levels as enjoyable as they can be on the later levels, especially Mad Space. With that said, if I were to compromise between SA1 and SA2's approach to treasure hunting, I'd make it this: have the player hunt down more emerald shards (perhaps 4-6 shards) per stage while also allowing all of the emeralds to be searchable. With this, even though you have more emeralds you need to find, the shard timer reset would couple well with being less reliant on the hint system and therefore spend more time exploring the levels.
As much as I enjoyed the concept of the Chaos, I found having to boost one up to a high level back in the day to be veeeerrry tedious. Thank God for GameFAQs, Gamewinners, and the GBA link feature to help make that experience much more efficient for a younger, less patient self. I'm sure there might be an incentive to try it again more naturally on a first playthrough if I started a new save, but who knows?
One final note about the closing statement - since Adventure 3 is never going to happen (or since it "did" if you consider Heroes to be the unofficial SA3 or whatever), I'd instead let Christian Whitehead, Headcannon, and whatever other development team is willing to hop on to remaster this game, Adventure 1, and Heroes from the ground up. In an ideal world we could get something akin to a Sonic 3 Complete experience where you could tweak everything from the sound mixing to the textures and lighting and designs that changed between the Dreamcast release, the GC Battle release, and the HD ports for PC and 360/PS3 where applicable. But at the very least, we might get some re-animated cutscenes akin to what Hypo did years ago (see ruclips.net/video/pU72XlMODgI/видео.html for an example of what I mean with this). That's just the hope of an old Sonic fan, and I'm all for hoping for a future like this!
SA1 needs good content in the hubworld, fixing Big the cat, a small rewrite of the overall plot, original beta Windy Valley, better Amy.
SA2 needs a level redesign for Sonic levels and more SA1 feel, better mech movement, nonlinear radar, also a rewrite because there are plot holes near the end of the game and it gets really messy.
Both SA1&SA2 should have way better voice acting, graphics.
These are the changes that i would like, even more tweaks to the Chao garden.
Somecallmejohnny?!! Isn't that the guy that makes 10 minutes long ''reviews'' with no substance?
@@legrandliseurtri7495 ??????????
@@legrandliseurtri7495 wut
ProJared's video is terrible
There's one thing I completely disagree with you on here, and I think it comes from a fundamental contradiction in your reasoning. And that is, simply, that the ranking system does not encourage the most fun way of playing the treasure hunting stages.
You're dropped in a sprawling level with no direction, and asking for directions is punished. As such, you are incentivised to wander aimlessly until you eventually run into the emeralds' radar range one after the other, resulting in a low score and potentially huge play times where you're not having fun. In order to get a high rank, you need to either do that so often that you know the levels by heart, or redo every stage over and over again using hints and making a map of the stage, and creating a single optimal route along which you will run through every possible emerald location in the shortest time in order to find them without hints. And to me at least, spening hours wandering around these levels just to memorise where the treasures might be is far from the most fun way to play those stages.
Hints don't penalize you enough to bar getting the A rank unless you use them frequently. You can use a few hints and still get the A, I've done it many times.
@@KingKlonoa They shouldn't penalize you AT ALL
@@AkameGaKillfan777 if they didn't penalize you at all, it would be Tikal all over again
@@KingKlonoa Either get rid of the RNG-placed locations OR penalize the player for using hints, not both.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 if there was no rng, the stages would have less depth and less replayable.
I remember when I first played Sonic Adventure 2 on a friend's Dreamcast, I was enchanted, and I was thrilled to when I finally got the game for GameCube. Over the years, I went from considering it to be one of my favorites in the series to it being "just okay". More recently, I've definitely started to lean back toward how I originally felt. Discourse in the early 2010s made me feel like I was wrong for liking it so much, like I had been blinded by nostalgia, but I realize I wasn't wrong, I loved the game for what it was, and the flaws were something I accepted because, well, the overall package was just a joy, and I'm honestly glad the discussion about the game has shifted back to a more balanced and nuanced outlook overall.
I will disagree with one specific thing you mentioned in the video: I absolutely believe we can have a Sonic Adventure 3, and it can be fantastic, and the reason why I believe that is Sonic Mania.
I think not only fans, but also Sega themselves have been exhausted of Sonic being just a funny meme guy, and the new IDW comics clearly show a Sonic narrative with stakes, characterization and pathos is still definitely in demand. I think people who truly love Sonic Adventure will be the ones working on the series in the near future
I hope you're right because the entire 2010s direction for the games ruined the Sonic Series. "Just Sonic Mentality" was always a mistake that combined with the series treating itself like a joke starting with Colors doomed the series. We can only hope we get to see that return to form with the standards set by the Adventure Games for 3D Sonic finally being brought back. Most main series Sonic games should offer at least 6 playable characters from now on. I'm expecting at least 7 in Mania 2 & hoping it's Amy Rosy & Honey the Cat getting added.
That's true but the comics have always been like this. In fact IDW is more nuefed than the last 2 in that regard.
I feel like the ranking system in SA2, Heroes and Unleashed are at their best, incentivising replayablity. While SA1 being one of my favorite games of all time, SA2 can definitely stand the test of time significantly better. I said it on Twitter and I'll say here: Glad to see what you have to say.
I think SA2 is the only game I’ve replayed over and over and over besides Super Mario sunshine. Learning about the shortcuts in speed stages, remembering the layout and hints of the treasure hunting to trying to be as precise and speedy in mech missions would never get old.
And you definitely hit the nail on the head with the ranking, I had no idea Green Hill was a reward for all As so you can imagine my childhood surprise when I saw it unlocked
Unfortunately I never had a chance to play Sonic Adventure 2. Would love to play for Rouge.
But I spent a big part of my childhood discovering Sonic Adventure DX on my old PC. Although even back then it was clear that this game is full of problems, I loved it so much. I never actually understood the point of ranking system. And it was annoying for me to do gameplay for Tales or any other stuff which is time limited. Because I would rather spent sooo much time exploring a level to find all secrets.
I also loved that kinda openworld level hub aspect and I spent so much time in Chao gardens.
All of this being said, I just find it beautiful how this old game can be felt so different by different people. And still means so much to a lot of them, including me
This game never gets old it’s one of the most iconic games of all time. It’s really easy to look past it’s flaws with all of the great things about it. I really hope their is a Sonic Adventure 3.
Sonic Heroes
I think the problem with SA2's Knuckles/Rouge levels is that radar change and the bigger treasure hunting levels were both solutions to the same problem. Really, if only one of those solutions was chosen instead of both, I think SA2's treasure hunting would have been fantastic.
Increasing the size and complexity of the levels but keeping SA1's radar would make the levels challenging, but also take away the annoyance of being near a piece but not detecting it. The levels are spaced out enough that it's very unlikely two pieces would be detected at once anyway.
Changing the radar but keeping the levels relatively confined would also have worked, as the levels being small would make searching through it all multiple times less egregous.
Honestly, if someone just modded SA1's radar behaviour into SA2, I'd love the Knuckles/Rouge levels. Who cares if it makes their first levels too easy - they're their first levels.
If you use the sa2 mod loader on the steam version, you can enable an sa1-style radar. It should be listed under the "Codes" tab.
@@tylerhood7839 Ah, neat!
Adventure format or not, the things that I feel make a Sonic game a Sonic game are risk, vision, and sincerity. Add momentum based gameplay that rewards skillful play (be it 2D or 3D), and you got t yourself a damn good Sonic game.
The Chao garden was my favorite feature of the game.
I remember my friends and I would spread playground rumors about how to unlock fake content such as secret gardens for chaos chao, how to gett egg chao, and how to breed secret types of chao. Good times...
It's a shame sonic team has yet to bring the chao garden or a similar concept back yet.
I miss the game just because of the Chao garden. But I am not 10 years old anymore and don't have the time to raise them all.
@@theshane7413 Same. I loved it as a kid but not as much these days. I get why people love it to this day but I don't have the time to spend raising a Chao as I did as a kid.
"There was a time when this blue hedgehog was the center of my world. Now, he's just a curiosity." Damn, I felt that. That's exactly how I feel.
Dr. Nefario approves this video
"I'VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT"
- Eggman
to be fair I'm kinda tired of this same meme everyone repeats over and over...
(Just my opinion)
This is the 10000000 time I’ve seen this meme in a comment section
It’s getting old
I've literally never seen this meme before and I enjoyed your comment.
(yes I'm serious)
@@trajectoryunown I already watched a bunch of livestreams and when people reach that part they always repeat this saturated meme over and over. In any video about SA2 you can see people saying about Eggman pissing on the moon, even when the cutscene itself don't even show up (when it shows it's 100% chance that someone will comment about this meme)
IGN: Mech Shooting is too slow and boring
Also IGN: Skylanders Giants 8.0/10
I love skylanders giants, but even I can admit the mech level is worse than SA2’s
With SA2 the speed levels entirely hold up and I can still feel the same energy playing them now as I did when I first played them.
Mech Shooting while certainly feeling deeper than SA1's version simply drifts away too much from the sense of speed and light movement that Gamma's had. Yes it feels more like an actual mech, but a lack of realistic weight was never really an issue I had. Its funny that Cosmic Wall actually solves a great deal of my problems with it just by lessening the gravity and making movements feel like less of a chore. That kind of feel throughout all of Tails and Eggman's levels would have made greatly improved my overall thoughts.
Treasure hunts also have the same issue of a singular element dampening the playthrough. While I understand its use in a smaller space, a linear radar in a non-linear game space is always going to feel contrived and makes even timely runs in those levels feel closer to luck than skill. its implementation had a logic to it, but I can't help but feel a shorter and focused playthrough of them with the old radar would have been more enjoyable than a longer and more tedious one with the new radar.
The section on the appeal of the ranking system I think also explains a lot of my more mixed feelings on SA2 given that I've always been indifferent to getting stuff like S Ranks. I'm glad they're there and they make complete sense as an element to incentivize replayability and skill mastery. However they were always bragging rights rewards to me, and I am glad the creation of something like the Red Rings was later utilized to give replay motivation to those like myself who weren't interested.
Overall SA2 is like Unleashed to me. I can really see why its so beloved and respect the depth of its mechanics, its just that a great deal of its most beloved concepts offer little fundamental appeal to me. I suspect that's why I don't lament the lack of return to what it was as strongly as others do. Sonic arguably did have more of a direction around this time, but I can't say it was one I would have been greatly excited for.
I completely agree
To me A ranks are a lot more than bragging rights. I don't care about achievements in video games, but the way you approach the levels is very different for the A ranks. Especially in speed levels, you develop a strategy of which tricks to go for, which rings, etc. You get a very intimate relationship with the level out of it and it feels very rewarding. The gameplay usually is flashy and sanic speed as well when you are pulling off those A ranks. It's a different type if challenge. Emblems also give you more stuff in the chao garden stuff so there is a feeling of progression
@@danielhicks1824 Oh I can definitely see the value in them and it could be said that the system in SA2 really incentivized various methods of play for the various levels.
I think its just in my case as someone who saw the Chao Garden as a fun novelty but not something I was big on overall completing, unlockables for it just weren't a big deal to me in that sense. Same with Emblems where the draw of Green Hill Zone in SA2 was cool but not enough to get me to get all of them or avoid using a Game Shark to open it.
I bring up the Red Rings specifically because I liked the gradual unlockable progression with special stages in Colors and abilities in Generations. If future Sonic titles did something similar with rankings (where getting an A Rank on a particular level directly opened/unlocked something)?
That might honestly have me motivated to try and get them.
Yeah, that makes sense. I *loved* the chao garden, but that type of motivator is hit or miss. I haven't played colors, but that sounds like a good system.
"I can see why its so beloved, but they offer little fundemental value to me"
We need more people in this fandom like you.
Sonic Adventure 2 feels like the second part to what could have been an iterative trilogy - building on the last entry every time.
Sonic Team seems to have gone "Wow, people must not like sequels. Let's just make one-offs forever and have no sense of continuity or integrity ever again."
Absolutely. I feel SA2 was building up Sonic to be revealed as the ultimate life form.
Wind Waker hasn’t aged well, but SA2 has? You crazy
I grew up loving this game, but it seems like everyone forgets the multiplayer. That’s probably my favorite element of the entire game and the one I definitely played the most with my family growing up (the sonic-esque stages)
I agree man the 2 player even remixes the levels too I love the 2 player mode
Omg all of these hour long sa2 videos are amazing man i could watch a million more of these Jebtube, Ruby of Blue, The Geek Critique, J's Review and now this one which isn't exactly an hour but its close enough
All i have to say is after this whole long sa2 video essay trend dies out can we please do this for heroes or sonic riders or like any other sonic game cause honestly the internet needs to stop shitting on sonic for everything when he has had some really good games and i feel that these videos do a great job expressing that and having more videos like this would definitely help the perception of sonics video game legacy
Sa1 is better than sa2 cuz big is the best character in the franchise.
It's great to see people talking about this game in a good light again on youtube. The GC version was my introduction to the sonic series and I still greatly enjoy this game. Though I adored the hunting levels while hating the mech levels; they just felt boring for me.
I'm really happy that you made this video, sa2b was and still is one of my favorite games of all time so I can really appreciate everything said in this video. I just gotta say thank you for talking about this gem of a game.
SA2 is my favorite game when it comes to just playing. I can always sit down and play it, and it is the only game I replay every single year. There's just something so captivating about its gameplay loop that no other game can touch for me.
I especially love your closing paragraphs. SA2 was the height of Sonic to me because it had such a strong sense of identity and confidence you don't find in any game before or after it. They were focused on one thing: do Adventure, but better. And that is what I believe carried them to new heights.
This was also my first Sonic game I ever played, and man, what an introduction to the character and what his games embody. There was a period of time where Sonic was literally the best thing in the world to me, and it was solely because of this game.
Great video. Everything you said is how I feel about it, even if I didn't know it.
I was waiting sooo much for this retrospective!!! Can't wait to watch everything!!
That's my favorite game of all time!
Same here fam
Comic sans is so good even SA2 used it
“The first game I truly fell in love with” I can relate to that statement more than any other statement I’ve heard in any game review ever
when i was a kid i could never beat the last level and i haven’t attempted it again to this day. maybe i should pop the gamecube disc in and give it another shot
Couldn't hurt to try
Yeah, I can relate.
As a kid, I remember 4 distinct times when I got stuck in this game. First one was against the first boss, both in hero and dark story, because I was very young and inexperience with that kind of game. And then, after beating it, I later kinda got stuck with the driving stages (so slippery...).
Lastly, it took me a long while to be able to beat the Last Story. But it was mostly because I kept drowning with Knuckles (I didn't know there was a breather upgrade for that in a prior level), and later, because I was unable to beat the Biolizard with Shadow.
That second to last boss battle was so hard for my younger self, that I felt so triumphant when I finally manage to beat it.
@@JKozlovable That goddamn truck in the first level made me rage quit countless times.
@@trajectoryunown ...The ways that our kid selves fail is magical.
Bro, that was beautiful. SA2 has always had a special place in my heart and it makes me so happy to hear such a detailed explanation of all the things I love about it!
"This video is sponsored by soap sh- I mean, raycon"
One thing I can't stop thinking about is Deem Bristow's performance as Eggman. Even compared to his performance in SA1, it's darker. It's deeper. And I'm sad he passed away a few years after this game came out.
Thank You.
I think.
Again as Sega move on to another Sonic project and say that they're going to give it more time as to make something better, people again echo the words that it will be a Sonic Adventure 3.
You say quite realistically that the time and people to make such a game have gone and moved elsewhere. I believe that to be true but still, Adventure 3 or something else, I'd just like a Sonic game that I can enjoy.
People can call this game all the negative things they want. But this game is a masterpiece. It’s flawed yes, all games are flawed, but it’s still so good.
This game is perfect!!! Although It is flawed
@@theminecraft2516 Personally, Ocarina of Time is closer to perfect but, this one comes a little comes.
@@averytubestudios Unpopular Opinion: Ocarina of Time is kinda boring
I like Breath of The Wild and Twilight Princess way more
@@theminecraft2516 Unpopular Opinion: Breath of the Wild is boring.
@@averytubestudios 👁👄👁
I would love to see what a proper SA3 would have been like.
Ostensibly...like, look, I know that Sonic Unleashed gets a lot of backlash because "Werehog...wha??? That isn't Sonic!" But imagine the Night stages being done with a Gamma-like character...global theme, Knuckles-like treasure-hunting stages even if it's for an optional Chaos Emerald power-boost.
@King Slayer that wasn’t a sequel. Sega themselves said it wasn’t
i resonated with you when you said it was the first game you fell in love with, this game certainly came to me at a very influential time
Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite game of all time
I'm so thankful that so many people have show their support for the game after the Dark times of Adventure-hating
Everything about this game gets me
Skill required stages, rewarding mechanics, a complete history with Lore, cohesion and stakes, a memorable cast, the soundtrack nuff said, a lot of worthy Side content
If SEGA never makes SA3 (which i'm still hoping we get, but a good one)
Please remake the Adventure games to modern standards, the game has definitely aged in some areas, but if dated still is my favorite game, now imagine if the game was updated
Sorry for my English
I'm glad I finally found a SA2 video that acknowledges how this is pretty much the only 3D Sonic game that has a good incentive to replay it. I would much rather have the hard ranking system and 5 mission structure than collect red rings or medals.
Really wish they would do a remaster of this game, although I have already bought this game twice I would be there day 1 even if its £70
I get what he means by not wanting them to make a literal Adventure 3.
Because the people who made the games are mostly gone, and it wouldn't feel right.
That being said I feel their legacy should be carried on by new people for a new generation of gamers, an 'Adventure' series for today's gamers y'know.
They set a really good foundation with a ton of limitless potential that's not even being touched by Sonic Team, this deserves a place in today's gaming scene.
It really sucks, because Sonic games can still be good fun, but the characters, as you've pointed out, are a far cry to what they used to be. They've morphed into these walking funny haha meme regurgitators instead of...yknow, characters. I have hope that new Sonic games can be as good as SA2, even if it's for not quite the same reason.
Shadow is honestly the worst case.
As another retrospective put it, he's basically turned into what people mocked him as back in 2005
A callous jerk who don't need friends and smacks ice cream out of your hand.
The only thing good to come out of current Shadow is how they basically acknowledged the Ryuko Shadow meme.
The Sonic and Shadow Rivalry is one of my favorite rivalries in fiction as well
There's a lot of cool nuances to how they impact each other. One could even argue that Sonic's heroics is what allowed Amy to get through to him in the end. Sonic would have been blow apart if he didn't take a page from Shadow's book to use Chaos Control. I always noticed a stark difference between how Sonic acted with Shadow in the lead up to their race to their previous encounter on the island. Despite the life or death circumstances Sonic is a lot more playful with Shadow with their back and forth banter instead of just raging and calling him a faker. I think that using Chaos Control- something he copied from Shadow- is the defining moment of their rivalry. Sonic is now coping Shadow- the thing he's been so hung up on this whole time. Knowing that it was Shadow's technique I assume there's an emotional trigger- his memories of Maria and the desire to protect her. Sonic using the same trigger of wanting to protect (in this case the world) opens his eyes a bit to the fact that Shadow is much more than "Evil Sonic"- that he has this strong desire to protect someone or something must mean that he has a heart. Thus he treats Shadow differently for the rest of the story...
Spiritual successors can be created, just take a look at Sonic Mania. We just need the same thing happening to Adventure..
I'm never going to stop being obsessed with this game. Whether I'm playing this game or watching a review. It's always the perfect game for the perfect time
SA2 will always be one of my favorite games, the space fight in the end with the music is forever memorable and nostalgic.
Honestly I don't think Shadow's death works. A lot of people say bringing him back was a mistake but from my perspective killing him lacked any thematic weight or tragedy.
Hypothetically, if you were to kill Sonic, (which you would never do because Capitalism), Tails, as a character, would lose his best friend, his role model, his guiding star, etc... and would force him to reevaluate himself and find a reason to go on. It would effect him on a deeper level, as it would most of the cast. Everyone would miss Sonic because everyone 'knew' him.
Shadow's death, while sad, lacks such a reaction from anyone in the cast because Shadow, being both new and aloof, never really had a chance to relate to anyone. Characters interact with him, sure, but no one is really his 'friend.' No one relies on him or looks up to him or has any real relationship with him, and his death, while saddening to the cast, leading them to have a somber heart to heart with each other on the Ark, is not going to be something they will carry with them from day to day.
If anything, it would have been more interesting if Shadow 'didn't' die.
Dying the way he did makes sense in a way because his goal of fulfilling his promise to Maria had been completed. From his perspective, he had nowhere else to go. But if he had survived, he'd have to stop and think about what he's going to do with his life now that his past has been recontexualized with his newfound memories. Would he remain with Eggman? Join Sonic? Go on his own? Stay on the Ark as its guardian, forever living in the -->Shadow
I enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1, but I loved Sonic Adventure 2. What I don't understand is the mentality behind Sega's game design and Sonic games ever since transitioning into 3D. In Sonic Adventure 1 it was ''worse'' than Sonic Adventure 2 in this regard, what I don't get is why they feel the need to introduce these other gameplay styles instead of focusing on making the fast paced action with Sonic as good as possible, because let's face it... The Sonic/Shadow sections are MUCH better than the Knuckles/Rouge and Tails/Eggman sections, same with SA1. The fast paced SPEED stages is where Sonic in 3D is as it's strongest. And that goes for Sonic games after this too, I don't get why they feel the need to transition from their fast paced speed action, which is their strenght, into a SLOW side scrolling platform sections. (Not to mention the Werehog...)
What I hope to see from Sega and Sonic in the future are games that focus on creating Sonic's fast paced 3D speed action as good as it possibly can be. Sega seems afraid or unsure that it won't be enough, with how they seems to continue to be obsessed with adding other gameplay styles into Sonic games. But I hands down believe if they made a game where all their focus were on creating the best 3D Sonic fast paced action, like Sonic/Shadow's stages from SA2... That would be the best Sonic game ever. That is what I hope to see from a Sonic Adventure 3.
SA2 was one of my first Sonic games and I loved it back then. But, overtime I've come to appreciate the game far more then I ever could as a child. It's one of the most impactful games in the series and we just never get games quite like it anymore.
Huge fan and keep up the good work, but I cannot disagree enough with you on SA2. It does everything SA1 does but worse. Ignoring mods and looking at the game as originally intended, its got atrocious sound mixing, embarrassingly barebones shooting stages, the treasure hunting levels are fundamentally broken, and the speed stages offer almost no replay value or alternate paths.
I get this is the "Empire Strikes Back" of Sonic, but when looking at the game objectively, its an absolute mess with almost no redeeming qualities.
I think you're giving the A rank system too much credit. I had more fun playing the game normally and started liking it less with the ranking system, it pushes as much of the bad as the good with the game.
A part of the problem is the requirements are too rigid; it's good to have them high enough that I have to learn more about the level and putting a value on that, but it tends to amount to playing the level in a specific way that doesn't offer the same level of player expression as the DMC games. Oh sure, maybe I can ignore a few enemies or take a certain route over another, but as you pointed out the game doesn't really balance out the time bonus with the point bonus to let you approach the level one way or the other, you have to get all the enemies and points that it expects you to get and then reach the goal at a reasonable pace.
Maybe you can miss a few guys here and there, but fuck up the 1000 bonus on a style jump cause *apparently* you didn't hit jump at the right part or weren't going at the right speed? Do over. The game just doesn't really give the best feedback on these kind of things (it doesn't even tell you how many points you need). I didn't really have a problem with the camera until grinding out A rank on Final rush and doing all those shitty rails around the 2 minute mark, having to get used to it whipping around and lining sonic up juuuust right so he doesn't fling his stupid ass off again.
Or all the other jank you have to deal with in the whole game. Trying to do those hoops in Pyramid Cave? Running in the half pipes in Green Forest and being at a bad angle? Trying to skip the elevator ride as Eggman and hitting against the wall too early, causing him to zip down? Not being able to free look in the treasure hunting levels? Your combo thing dropping in the mech levels (Why doesn't it display a timer? or is it distance based? idk)? Not being able to gauge if you're close enough for sonic/shadow to home in on an enemy or if they'll fling themselves somewhere else? That shitty uppercut move you have to do to break some boxes in the treasure hunting level? Rail switching just not working in Final Rush? Like, these are the things that come up when I was trying to do all the emblems the first time, it's only easy to brush this jank off when you've played the game so much you have things in muscle memory.
It's also just a bit too much. Like, sure, A rank on the main level, then have one for 100 rings, or finding a chao. But having to replay a level up to 5 times for all the emblems takes a bit of it's toll, I'm not sure what the point of the time limit is since by then you'll have routed out the whole stage anyway for the earlier rankings, you're just repeating it again. It's kinda overkill that'd only be justified if you were gridning out Chao Garden at the same time, which is it's own weird can of worms. I feel like it'd be fine enough, and even have a better sense of variety, if each level only had 2-3 emblems but the type of missions would swap out with each other.
It's like Celeste, it's hard to get into due to the dificulty, but It's even harder to step outside when the rewarding feeling steps in
Hugo Flores it’s rewarding when I don’t have to repeat the same 3 to 8 minutes of gameplay cause I didn’t target enough enemies in a mech level, I guess
While I have always enjoyed SA2 for its presentation, two stories, and overall content (Chao Garden and ranking system especially), I still think SA1 > SA2, mostly since nearly everything SA2 did, especially in terms of game/level design, SA1 did it first, and IMO, did it much better.
Sonic/Shadow - While incredibly enjoyable these levels are more like modern takes where it's get from point A to point B in as quickly as possible with no sense of exploration. SA1 did Sonic levels a greater justice IMO. Yes, you can still sprint to the finish, but exploring was encouraged.
Tales/Egg man - I thought these levels represented terrible game design. They were slow, mediocre, and too plentiful. There are just as many "shooting" levels in the game as there are Sonic/Shadow levels. E-Gamma's levels were better. For one, he had arguably the best story in SA1 and the count down timing mechanic was a nice touch. Playing as Egg man was cool, but completely breaking the game with Tails in SA1 was sorely missed.
Knuckles/Rouge - The radar nerf cripples these stages. Yes, the original levels were too small and Knuckles clearly seemed like an add-on, however, the treasure hunting mechanics were some of the best of SA1. In SA2, the radar limits the player, and in a game where speed runs are plentiful, it's a mechanic that tries to keep the player from attempting such. RNG locations for emeralds isn't a problem if you can find any emerald at a time with your radar, but in SA2 you cant.
Amidst all of my criticisms I still highly enjoy this game. The ranking system is nearly perfect, Chao garden is great, and I think the developers did well to get rid of the the Hub world. Upgrades are odd, but again, are the only element that harkens back to classic Sonic exploration.
Still a fun game that I would recommend to any Sonic fan, but after replaying both of the Adventure games recently, I feel as though SA2 was incredibly under-whelming in comparison to SA1. Great video as always! Thanks for reading my rant.
My favourite Sonic game, and one of my favourite games in general.
Everyone knows that SA1 had the best Sonic levels, but SA2 is the better overall game.
I rather play SA1 than SA2, didn't enjoyed the mechs and Sonic was very dumbed down compared to the original.
It’s really smart how you use the sponsorship as an excuse to talk about the soundtrack. I wish more content creators would employ advertising into a video like this!
Agree, nobody wants it before the video, nobody listens if it’s after the video, and this puts it in the middle without it being obtrusive.
Literally the only good SA2 video on youtube, finally
Also, Ancient Light is pretty handy in some parts, just hold forward when using it to always target the enemy, plus it bypasses enemies with electric shields, takes you out of ball form so you won't accidentally bounce, super handy in Crazy Gadget
One of my favorite games growing up. Rouge and Knuckles were always my favorite.
This is still my favorite Sonic game, also. It was only last year, though, that I finally got 100% completion, as the Chao emblems took me eons to finish. It's sad that this was my first experience of Sonic, as none could surpass my expectations for past and future installments.
Yeah.. this game is quite good, lol.
So strange. I just moved into a wonderful new home. As a result, I made a point to go back and finally Complete SA2B. Today, I made my first Chaos Chao finally. And then, this video drops while Im doing this. Perfect timing for me to watch this whole thing.
"sigma alpha 2"
Well played
I'm fairly confident Sonic Adventure 3 is going to happen sooner than later. And it's probably going to be hilariously bad.
I try really hard to like the game play of adventure 2, but the fact that you can't turn into a ball as Sonic while you're moving is very frustrating to the point where it almost makes sonic levels unplayable. And honestly it really upsets me that nobody ever says anything about that, if you can't turn into a ball while going downhill to gain speed, then you're not really playing a Sonic game, and the people not realizing that the core part of Sonic's gameplay is missing makes me wonder if they ever understood the games in the first place.
What are you talking about? You can do the same spin dash from SA1, you just have to HOLD the button not just press
@@sanglish18 doing a spindash isn't the same as rolling into a ball on demand to keep momentum going and gaining speed downhill. Your response tells me that you do not even understand what I am talking about
@@Nagasakevideo Uhh no, it's the same thing, SA1 and SA2 is my most played game ON MY LIFE, the spin dash works exactly the same, you just can't spam it, but you can perfectly use it downhill without loosing your momentum.
If NO ONE complains about that then I think you're holding for too long so that sonic stops while charging. You can use downhill, stop and charge speed to jump through other areas, everything I do in SA1 I can in SA2.
@@sanglish18 "works exactly the same"
Movement in Adventure 2 is *NOWHERE* near the same as SA1.
@@saricubra2867 What? I was talking about the spindash, it works just like in SA1, the only difference is that you need to hold the button.