Why Skyrim's Mining Animation Is Bad
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- What makes Skyrim's mining animation look and feel bad? LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
Written and produced by Daniel Floyd
Special thanks to:
-Carrie Floyd
-Barry Kramer
-Soraya Een Hajji
-Eric Luhta
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Follow me on Twitter (@DanFloydPlus): / danfloydplus
For more games (and animation geekery), check out our other channel, PlayFrame! bit.ly/2lmGte8
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♪ Featuring selections from the Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim official soundtrack.
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#NewFramePlus #animation #Skyrim
My favourite Skyrim animation is the smoke in the loading screen because when it stops after 20 minutes of loading on the PS3 I know it's crashed so it's very informative
nice
On my shitty laptop it's like a sudden framedrop for the smoke, then I hear sounds for 2 seconds and finally the game appears.
It nostly occours when loading from the main menu. Works fine when quickloading after dying or getting a killcam and actually missing the shot.
Fun fact: this is actually something that's required for compliance reasons on consoles. Loading screens have to have some kind of moving element on-screen, so that if the game crashes, the player can recognise it rather than sitting around hoping for a crashed game to eventually "finish loading".
@@tbotalpha8133 Interesting… Is this possibly why SEGA added the spinning ring model into the Sonic Adventure DX/Sonic Adventure 2 Battle loading screens in more recent ports? Before those, there was no ring spinning around on the SA2B level titles and the like on the GameCube version.
It seems random, but that's what popped into my head when I heard of required animations in loading screens.
Xane Myers - Most likely. Even then, that’s hardly useful because sometimes games will literally load indefinitely despite the fact it’s crashed (also known as a soft lock).
I am a pro coal miner and I use pickaxe daily and I also teleport to the best spot to tap the ore vein as well
"Coal ore vein"
Seems legit.
Real shit?
@@salgen1319 he didnt say he was mining coal, he just happens to be a coal miner mining a wood ore vien.
Rabid Moose
What, next you’re going to tell me “rock ore veins” don’t exist!
@@asmallphd9648 accurate, the wood was really old though.
The best way to mine in Skyrim is duel wielding two pickaxes and using the spin move. Most realistic.
I was going to refute this, but I saw your name, so I guess I'm wrong.
Had an argument against that but indeed your name persuaded me
Antz style
Plus elemental fury
@@pelinalwhitestrake4196 and dual flurry. It's pretty hilarious how fast you mine the ore.
that one ref had sparks flying off the rock and I don't know why any mining game animation would ever do anything else
I bet you when you would put this in a game people would call it 'unrealistic'
@Daniel Schroedinger
Wait aren’t those sparks caused by friction? Why would people call it unrealistic?
@@branastasia8013 Because bullets causing sparks on impact is a notorious Hollywood-ism that basically doesn't happen in real life, so it's easy to assume the same would be true for pickaxes as well. I know I was surprised by the clip!
Yeah it happens when I dig any holes at my house. Hit a rock with the shovel right and there’s some sparks.
@@AaronRotenberg You said Hollywood-ism, I believe trope may be a better word? Using the spark of a ricocheting bullet to light a gas trail, for example, is a big trope.
Dev team: Todd we need more time to work with animations
Todd: I released game yesterday!
Todd: But don’t worry, we’ll release it again every few years
Dev team: Great, we’ll have the chance to fix some of these bugs!
Todd: *N A H*
@@Booksds It just works
up is not joke
Booksds - LMAO. That was a lot funnier than that should’ve been.
After gathering all this footage, Dan is now the now the most ore-rich man in all of Tamriel
No wood elf is as over-burdened and slow-walking as my wood elf.
probably enough ore to get him up to smithing skill 35, maybe if hes lucky even 36
more like in all of Nirn
i disagree. i mainly play the game as a blacksmith (heavily modded ofc), so i have to collect quite a few ores haha
@@NewFramePlus was that mining video from codys lab
That one isn't even the worst. Have you seen how the NPCs clap after a bard finishes performing?
not to mention the sound effect that goes along with it
Have you seen a guard performing?
@@kevgmei ...?
@@andopodes I know, right? Talk about sloppy.
The difference is that an ncp acting weird doesn't effect your play feel. The speed of moving around and swinging is suddenly taken away from you and the speed of how the game moves is instantly changed.
The animation looks like it's SO bad for the character's back.
watching it hurts mine
jesus you gave me flashbacks to my mom
@@asmallphd9648 Wait what?
@@LordVader1094 constantly complaining about something being bad for my back
looks like the character puts no muscle into the swing
Have you seen the animation for getting out of a chair
Literally not physically possible
Or sitting in a chair.
"Ah yes, I'll just have a quick sit-down in my full suit of Dragonbone plate armour, take the weight off my feet for a bit. This tiny wooden chair looks perfect". 😆
@@sixstringedthing Those chairs were made by the legendary carpenter Diero Palpara, specifically to hold his dad who weighs a bit over 1,000 kg, some armour will be nothing compared to Mr. Palpara
Hey, I managed it once! It was horrible and awkward, and I'll never do it again, but I did it once.
Spatial Awareness no it's not possible. They do it without bending over and their feet are not under their main bodies.
@@SpacePirateFromSpace You're basically in a rigid upright position in full armour. The point of it was protection, not so much mobility. Very funny to see how people wearing it "sit", they basically are just standing at a 45° angle
I remember when they updated the mining animations in Runescape (guess it's "Classic" now or whatever). Went from being believable but bland, to giving some physicality to the anim. Your character really HEFTED that pickaxe. Sometimes it'd get stuck. Sometimes your character would stop to wipe their brow. It made the action of mining feel more like the hard work (I assume) it is.
Oh it is. Rock is a lot harder than average people realize, and manually hitting it with metal on a stick is grueling work.
@@DeathnoteBB F*ck man, just packed dirt sucks ass
Just as was said, even digging dirt is a major pain in back, liteary. We have a lock of stones in soil on our garden and get them out is real strugle.
From experience it really is, you'll likely injure yourself someway, be it a small bruise on your palm, numbness through the hands and wrists, completely tearing your shoulder muscle, or the worst case I've heard of, mishitting, the pick sliding and then driving into the top of your steel toe cap boots and deforming the metal, resulting in amputation of 3 toes on one foot
Shout out to the mining animation in Monster Hunter World, which segways smoothly, has just enough weight, and only take three swings.
That also has a unique animation when you get something rare
*read in old man voice* You and your youngins with your fast mining animations. In our days, we had to swing our pickaxes all the way and standing still!
But no really, MHW reduced some of the animations in the older titles so much for the better.
And the hunter is always just _so_ dang excited about it. Doesn't matter if it's your first Novacrystal or your hundredth; they gotta have it.
Anyone else have a favorite mining or pickaxe animation
The pickaxe even gets stuck sometimes, which indicates a rare item
When I played Skyrim on xbox360, I eventually ran into a strange bug. I know that on consoles Skyrim had some... issues with file size and corruption after a few dozen hours. Myself and every humanoid NPC, if not doing any other animation, would pull out a pickaxe and begin striking the ground. Like, if I stopped moving long enough to go into that 3rd person idle animation, my character would start mining the cobblestones. Everywhere I went I hear, "tap.... tap.... tap..." It was maddening.
Sounds creepy to me lol
that may be the most bizarre Skyrim glitch I've heard of yet.
thats scarry. didnt know skyrim was a horror game
@@UnleashedDaemon I am not a video-making guy/person/entity.
all the avatars in the game wanted to get out. the only way they knew how was to mine.
only mining? skyrim is a train wreck of animations
And what mountain walls you can walk through and wich not.
I hated the one where Skjor cut Aela's arm for when your character becomes a werewolf. Bam, the blood just appears.
@@Memoria1356 It just plops into the bowl. No blood spill or anything.
@@joezze-bear I don't know why this was just such a beautiful comment, but it is
@@joezze-bear I don't know how to react to this.
I remember as a child, when I was at my grandpa's house and found a pickaxe in the shed. So of course I picked it up over my head, when the pick head slid down the handle and smashed my hands. Grandpa just said, "never hold a pickaxe upside down." With modern fiberglass handle pickaxes the head is secured, but on old wooden ones the head is held by the force of the swing. I cringed every time how long the dragonborn holds that pick vertical before his swing.
Most old pickaxes have slightly larger handles than the hole they're pushed into on the head which prevents that from happening. Really old picks are made the same way but when the very old wood becomes extremely dry it shrinks making it smaller and letting the head slide freely down the handle again. Axes are the same way so be careful swinging them as well. Oiling the wood or soaking it in water by the head can swell the handle making it more secure
He's not mining, he's MIMING the act of mining!
Mimecraft for the win
Mimning.
Minnning
Yeah i think the person who suggested it miseread the file name
When I saw the title, I thought it was a joke. When I saw the video length, I thought it was a bait n’ switch. But when I watched the video I was amazed at how much discussion you could make from that little bit of animation. Good job Dan!
I was wishing for a bait n’ switch to be honest.
Good job on him to put so much work an effort on pointing out every single problems about the animation...
But it’s about a 7yo game... Doesn’t everyone who still play the game got a version that can be modded with better animation by that point?
@@Q_Tura or just equip the pickaxe and hit the ore
Yes, I always noticed this. The pickaxe doesn't have any impact to it, doesn't even bounce back.
Elder Scrolls never really had high standards for animations to begin with. It's not the animations necessarily that makes these games what they are
@@mtnmotoadv good animation can make a good game to a great one. Same with ui
It bounces a tiny whiny itty bit, really.
The momentum just feels wrong. It moves at a constant speed throughout which, with our natural understanding of momentum and gravity, means he must be *decelerating* the pick in the second half of the swing.
The character’s just gently tapping it XD
I really appreciate how you consider the constraints and reasons why poor animations exist. You made this an unjudgemental constructive critique rather than simply bashing them. You have an avid new fan :)
You
You
Bruh she said constructive critique I'm boutta die
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil you
Me?
Surprised he didn’t mention the bug where the Dragonborn has a sheathed picaxe whilst wielding one.
My initial impression of this animation was “Wow, you’ve never held a pickaxe and seem genuinely afraid of this one.”
The fella with the sunglasses and flannel swinging the pick is doing it in an incredibly dangerous manner - you should NEVER lift a pick, axe, sledgy etc. above your head, instead swing from above your shoulder. Just those short clips are making me cringe, I've had some close calls and it ain't fun people.
Apparently it's unwise to learn how to use a pick from the internet who would've known 😂😂😂
Thanks for the tip.
@@Reznor1974 No wokkas bigfella as long as you don't impale yourself it's all that counts 👌
It's almost an arc motion you want to use (least that's what the BossMan and I would use), straight over the head is not only dangerous, it wears you out faster.
but what if I want to break my own spine?
Except the issue here isnt whether it's safe, it's how the animation moves. It's an example of how to use movement, anticipation, etc. I. An animation
The main gripe I had - is how LOOONG the cycle runs for.
Something I've always appreciated about people like you are how fair and sympathetic you are towards the developer, because you understand what it's actually like to create games. There's no need to burn a dev to the ground if you want to criticize their game, there are often many things going on when it comes to gamedev that players don't realize or take for granted. So I like how you do try to consider the possible reasons for why the animation ended up the way it did.
They could've thrown in some particle effects whenever the pickaxe hits the rock. Really give it the feeling that it's connecting and doing damage, so to speak.
And if there's a particle system for one kind of rock, it should be possible to customize the particle system for any kind of rock. Make it feel like you're mining gold versus iron versus heartstone!
"Hey, we added this new type of ore in the Dragonborn DLC-"
"Great! Make it take twice as long with no changes to the animation!"
Now I remember why I just hit the ore nodes with the pickaxe rather than using interact
Now I remember why I just got a mod that skipped the animation entirely. Gamier feel, but less of... *gestures vaguely at mining in skyrim*
I think I enjoy hitting it myself with the pickaxe more even if they made the animation was good, it’s more satisfying to press the button and get direct feedback and not feel like I’m just waiting for it to finish
@@tysonasaurus6392 QTE
Didn't know you could do that.
You can *do* that?!
Hearing this clear-headed, gentle and reasonable critique about one animation in an 8 year old game makes me want to see a darkest-timeline version of you going all Angry Joe and screaming for 12 minutes like a man-child about one animation in an 8 year old game. I mean... you'd need to grow a goatee, but I think you could pull it off!
@Mr. Dewott75 Sugar Punch is pretty fair though
@Mr. Dewott75 I gotta agree these videos are pretty great too. Idk I like both just as much
FOUR HOURS
Angry Joe doesn't even get that angry msot of the time tho. And it's usually justified. I'd be screaming like a man child if my 60 dollar game was "ONLY 4 HOURS"
Skyrim is victim of its own longevity - the most analyzed, over-exposed game of the decade. Bethsoft fans get this sort of perverse Stockholm syndrome by comparing it unfavorably to much newer games.
I think your theory about it being originally npc-only animations turned into player tasks makes a lot of sense. since they were hipothetically npc-only, they didn't create first-person versions of them, so that's why it always defaults to third person mode. Also, i guess i don't need to tell you, but there's mods that do exactly what you suggested as solutions. community saving bethesda games since forever.
I think you're right. This is something that can't just be explained by "lul Bethesda game bad!!!" Some corner was cut (because it had to be), some NPC animation was reused for this (because it had to be), or really just anything else that we as third parties couldn't even begin to guess. In my opinion it's almost *too* bad to be simply janky or lazy.
@Kaby don't get me wrong, the animation itself is super jank, even for npcs, it has like no weight. but i really think he was onto something there. it just clicks.
that makes sense, considering there is a command that spawns an NPC of the player, probably what gets used during these animations.
As someone who was part of the deeply entrenched morrowind modder community around the time that Skyrim was in development, I can confirm that when we got leaks of test animation for workstations, the topic of which "actors" would have these animations came up. It was, in early development at least, definitely intended for NPCs only.
i use a mod that allowes the basic flame spell to mine ore, 1 or 2 seconds and you got it, and its kinda fun
watching the mining animation feels like throwing a punch in your dream
ChrisxStyleZ Perfect description
Or trying to run. It's like you're wading through honey.
(Fun fact, there's a reason why this happens to everyone: it's because your body is trying to act out what's in your dream (since your brain can't differentiate between dreams and reality), but while you sleep, your muscles get paralyzed so you don't flail around and hit yourself. This paralysis affects your dream-muscles, too.)
I get lower back pain every single time I see the character attempt to mine a vein close to the ground.
For the mining animation specifically...I bet there was a constraint that they couldn't raise the pick above their head...to prevent weird clipping
That sounds very plausible if there was a chance that mining points might be put in tight corridors. I haven't actually played Skyrim, so I don't know if there are, but it does seem like good grounds for such a constraint.
It sounds plausible if they cared about weird clipping in Bethesda games
Coulda had the pickaxe clip through the ore to make it have better impact
They probably just didn't care at all and made the bare minimum. You don't need to make the pick go above the head to make an acceptable mining animation. 3:12 shows an example of what could be a very simple but convincing animation.
you don't even have to raise it above the head. just keep the back straight till right before the impact, give the arms some more freedom and speed up the swinging before the impact.
They should have added some sparks and dust clouds too. Maybe some small rocks falling too.
That is a good idea, but the game lacks particle effects tied to actions overall, so that would probably require a significant change to the game's systems.
Yah at least one particle effect that sells the contact, maybe a harsher dense sound as well even if it’s not entirely realistic it’s just better sound design
This is one reason the wood-chopping animation feels so much better than the mining animation. No particle effects here either, but that convincing sound of axe cleaving wood is paid off by SEEING two pieces of firewood go flying into the piles on each side.
Maybe even ores being actually broken off and the rocks crumbling?
This is a 9 years old open World game... i dont say you're wrong either
I honestly feel sick watching this animation multiple times in a row.
I’m glad I’m not the only one :P
Skyrim: www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/60756
Special Edition: www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/687/
Same. I actually had to look away it's that unbearable. Never thought an animation of a guy causally mining could do that to me but here we are.
Fucking hell it hurts
@@VoilaTadaOfficial Screw the ore. I need that when chopping firewood. Especially those house mods that call for 100 firewood in their crafting recipes.
But if you ever get sick of watching mining ore in third person there is Enhanced Camera for Skyrim www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57859
Not sure if there is one for Special Edition.
Mining was invented in 2014 and Skyrim came out in 2011 damn.
I know this is a joke, but why 2014?
@@danielgalbeaza7021 bitcoin
@@Youtbeisass thanks
But Minecraft came out before 2011 🤔🤔🤔
Collinlopezrox it was a joke bro
I think the funniest part of this is that part of your criticism is that it didn't feel like it had any weight behind the swing. But....skyrim nailed wood chopping. They could've reused at least part of it. The character swings the axe up with both hands, puts their whole body in the downward chop. They nailed it. When the log immediately completely splits in two, I go "Yeah, of course it did, I'm the DRAGONBORN and I put all my strength into it." But...the mining just felt like he was pathetically tapping, when the motions could've been reused in a pinch.
You can solve this problem by:
1) Duel wield pickaxes
2) Use "elemental fury" shout to increase melee speed by astronomical amount
3) spam both mouth buttons
...mouth buttons?
@@showalk isn't that what you use to shout with?
@@Ebunno I would call it the "power button", because it is used for any currently equipped power, not just shouts. Even "shout button" would be better than "mouth button", but "power button" is better than both. Of course, that's assuming that that is what the original commenter meant by "mouth buttons".
THIS is why I ALWAYS mined manually. You can even dual wield pickaxes to do this.
Dual flurry 2. Use the power attacks. You'll get ore in just one second.
Top that off with elemental fury shout
You can mine MANUALLY?
@@aarotoivari8940 yeah
I just got a mod that fast forwarded the animation...
I live in an area where there is more clay than soil in the ground. I regularly have to use a pick to break up the ground. This said, the animations for mining and splitting wood are absolutely abominable. You would hurt yourself so badly, the mining one in particular would damage your wrists.
The wood chopping animation is so much better than the mining animation though.
the last time i used a pick axe was setting some simple steps into a clay bank, the skyrim one has less energy to it and the player character is trying to break stone...
Next video idea: Why skyrim's bread eating animation is bad
Lol true, can't believe people are more concerned of the mining animation in this game rather than combat animation.
Have you heard of the high elves?
@@tundragon442 i prefer throat slitting than stabbing through a metal breastplate its more realistic and gruesome
Skyrim animation is bad in general
The game is 8 years old
You, a fool: Clicks on the ore vein and waits for the animation to mine the ore.
Me, an intellectual: Elemental Fury + Dual wielding pickaxes.
Edit: Yes yes go ahead and cheat with console commands while I legitimately John Henry my way through the mountainside you absolute peasants
+ unlimited ore per vein mod
Me: downloads a mod to remove the mining animation.
tap ore node, get the shit and leave, all in 1 second.
Cant use elemental fury, my pickaxe got soul trap
Me: buying all the ore and ingots from vendors because I have to walk to three different holds to unload my hundreds of potions and enchanted jewelry.
@@MyNameIsBucket Why dont you reset your favored merchants inventory? its so easy.
Just save your game, sell everything you can, save your game again, agro/punch the merchant, load the save you just made, their inventory is now reset and thus gold is full and ready to be sold stuff.
Its a glitch yes, but its such a wonderful QOL glitch.
I love constructive, informative content on RUclips
Andandampersand i hate constructive informative content myself.
another great analysis with some good behind the scenes reasonings to back it up. these days when there's a lot of games criticism, it's an interesting look into the "why" part and get a better understanding.
I wanted to ask what brings you here but then I remembered that you do a lot of animation
I watch a channel called Matt McMuscles, his section "What hapenned" it's about the history and problematic behind bad and infamous games.
His videos are great!
With a lot of artistic and creative things, particularly in animation, it's often how you'd _expect_ an action to look, and not necessarily how it _actually_ does, because animation is always better when it's a little exaggerated and more fun to look at. Nicely done, Dan!
I think a core part of why this animation _looks_ bad is that the pickaxe is ridiculous.
Seriously look at that thing. That is not a pickaxe. That thing has no reach. No leverage. No momentum. You could pry nails out with that thing, not break rocks. That is not made for digging.
I couldn't disagree more, intention matters. I'm also personally not a fan of the artistic 'animation' choices made in most video games anyway for almost any of their animations.
@@7dayspking well,thats why you are not in a animation team i suppose
@@lukelblitz3627 Are you? Does agreeing with artistic choices have anything to do with animation experience or credentials? I guess all animators that deviate from industry trends must themselves not be part of an animation team. Even if this were true, would it be relevant to the validity of what I said about what I think of artistic choices?
@laflugantabastardo Basically that's what has happened. Everyone expects unrealistic things from their games so they feel familiar and 'real' to them.
I just spent 12:00 watching a man explain how janky a mining animation is in a video game.
What a time to be alive. like
liked
I did and I enjoyed it.
I literally just clicked on that video to see exactly this comment. Thank you kind sir.
We are wasting are lives.
Lets be realistic here guys, all of us have spent far more time watching that single animation ingame than the length of this video.
9:37 Honestly, this also kinda goes into gameplay issues, mainly that there is no functional difference between any of the weapons other than some are kinda slower than the others. I think all the melee weapons could do with different animations, as well as different functionalities. Or at the very least, they could accentuate their qualities further; further increase the functionality of maces and hammers as guard breakers at the cost of further decreased speed, for example.
90% of the animations in skyrim are terribly bad...
Especially the jumping/falling animation.
omg the jumping anitmation... so horrible🤦
It looks like theyre flying
What falling animation?
Don't get me started on the sprint
So happy FNIS exists. Oh boy the game with original animations is unplayable for me at this point.
Cool episode. Definitely like the fact that you made it clear this likely isn't the fault of any one person or team, and kept it professional.
I like the suggested fixes section.
I would probably not watch if he did not do those two things.
why sugarcoat and hide the truth? there are many TERRIBLE animations in skyrim. they didn't just run out of time on this one. the animators of skyrim had no idea what they were doing. just look at some of the kill moves how they awkwardly move the two actors together. one of the stealth kill animations grabs onto an enemy for more than 2 seconds before performing the kill. realistically you could scream for help or just turn around and attack your opponent in that time.
look at the dragon kill animation how you awkwardly climb the dragons head, slide around, almost fall off and then stab it after who knows how many seconds.
or something that is everywhere and should look proper, the walking animation, the npc's never put their foot in front of them, but right below them, like one of those old japanese robots that always fall over when they try to walk.
@Sinister Hand I'd agree with you.... if Skyrim 'special" edition hadn't dropped only 2 years ago. All with the same terribleness but with a new coat of paint to hide the rust.
Minecraft has the best mining animation. *Change my mind.*
Amity
Minecraft has the same animation when hitting anything, no matter if you are mining or fighting
*boom*
@@MrPablosek Yup. That must've given the developers so much time to do other things 😌👌
Realtalk I still don't understand why Minecraft characters don't have elbows or knees. Wrists and ankles would have been nice as well. Just because it's a low-poly game with 16-bit textures doesn't mean it couldn't have had nice animations.
I will maintain that animations are much, _much_ more important than the number of polygons or the size of the textures when it comes to graphical quality.
@@Greywander87 They don't have wrists, ankles, elbows, or knees because it's not Roblox. I'm more than sure it's just because the simplistic "robot style" just really fits in the world of oversized pixels.
Greywander probably to stick to that simplistic style that Minecraft was built on. Plus, it's iconic
Its 2:00 PM and I am watching a 13 minute videos about a single animation in a now old game.
This... this is the life.
12
Imagine being the Bethesda employee who worked on this and seeing a 12 minute explanation on why and how you did a terrible job
This feels like such a hilariously petty animation to dedicate a whole video to, but hot damn was it PERFECT.
While from the outside it does seem petty, it's detail put into polishing animations that separates the great games from the not so great.
gotta make that ad revenue
As someone who has put hundreds of hours into Skyrim... you had me at “why Skyrim is bad”
As someone who has put over 1000 hours into skyrim... same.
Given that Skyrim is modifiable could one repair the animation and publish the mod?
@@LordDragon1965 : I'm surprised there isn't ALREADY a mod that improves this animation. Or maybe there is and we just haven't found it
There are several mods that fasten or skip the animation entirely and one that allows for first person mining but none that actually change the animation. Probably because animating is one of the toughest things to do in skyrim.
What gets me most is that the animation for chopping wood isn't as bad as this, and for all practical purposes, they are the same motion with a different tool.
One of my favourite games growing up was Wario Land 3. Wario has no health, and instead is transformed by his enemies attacks, that can then be utilized to solve puzzles (ie. Wario gets squashed, and turns into a spring that can launch to higher platforms). The animation and facial features are so expressive! I'm sure there are plenty of angles to take on a video for that game. Plus it might be a nice change-up to look at a game that is (1) a little older (2) pixel graphics and (3) constrained by the limitations of a handheld device.
If you liked wario land you should check out a game called "Pizza Tower"
My first nintendo and my first handheld game! Still never managed to beat the final boss, nor did I ever see all there was in that game. I dont think that later representations of the character hold up at all to what we see in Wario Land 3. (compare say, his most basic move in WL3 vs Smash bros series. The smash bros punch doesnt feel as nice as that elbow first body slam from WL3). Also really liked the "on fire" and "vampire" animations, though the "electricity stun" was comparitively just annoying.
@@Nosonic64
An episode on Pizza Tower would be amazing for 2 reasons:
1: the animation in that game is *amazing* and fluid, and it implements a lot of squash and stretch
2: It could really use any publicity it gets.
Pizza Tower is great! I've been following that one closely
Wario Land 3 is the only game that I retain visceral memories of even after only having played it in the store. I never owned it, but when walmart had it as a demo, every time I would go in, I would rush over to the electronics section to play it. Specifically because of what you describes. I remember some of the visuals making me laugh, some shocking me or disgusting me, but always with a highly entralling set of expressions coming from Wario's animations. I remember all of this from playing it in the dang store close to 20 years ago! Now that's impressive.
Also I did rather enjoy that you could hardly ever die even if you tried, but every enemy would change Wario, giving him new pros and cons to his mechanics that you could use to solve puzzles and progress. This is a rather under-explored game mechanic still to this day, with the exception of this specific series.
Watching this video, I think one of the clues why the animation turned out so poorly is that the mineral veins aren't all at the same height. They probably wanted to make ONE mining animation (for time constraints), but either had already programed all these different mineral veins in different orientations, or decided it would look natural if each vein wasn't a carbon copy of everything else.
My guess is that somewhere in the development process they had more energetic looking animations that looked really good on some veins and REALLY weird on other veins. Notice how different the character's posture is when the vein is up on a wall versus directly beneath the character. Trying to get an animation where the character really swings towards a vein on the wall would be hard to look natural if it also had to work for a vein on the ground (and vice versa) so they just implemented one that they felt (kind of) worked in all circumstances. If you look at the other 3rd person crafting animations, most aren't nearly as bad because they benefit from the fact that it only has to interact with ONE forge model or ONE smelter model, for instance. They could tailor each of those animations for that particular model, instead of trying to make one work for several different models.
The cuts to 3rd person really get in my nerves in games like this. Even some 1st person-only games do this. Like Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, which actually uses a full character model to deliver one of the best 1st person experiences, switches to 3rd person for stuff like climbing.
I really don't get it.
It’s a shame you can’t just release a game twice. Surely, if Bethesda were given the chance to ship the game again, it would be an opportunity to go back, polish up some animations, fix some bugs...
It’s a shame Skyrim was never rereleased!
:^)
Do you want it to become fallout 76?
Yeah its a huge shame I wish that they could release some sort of "remastered" edition! But thats just a pipe-dream I guess
Dude, Bethesda released Skyrim 5 times! They fixed the performance and updated the graphics with Special Ediiton, but they left everything else the same.
@@kevgmei Yep, ‘twas the joke
Did I just watch a 12 minutes video about Skyrims mining animation and enjoyed it ?? Yes. Yes I have.
It isn't really about it, you can take most of what's in the video and apply it to most bad & janky canned animations in games
Good for you.
godoyin OMG YOURE SO QUIRKY AND WEIRD AND SO SPECIAL CAN I BE YOUR FRIEND OwO
I'd love for you to have a look at the squid -> kid/kid -> squid animations in Splatoon and Splatoon 2, since based on what you said ages ago, that sort of transforming one type of thing to another smoothly is tough to get looking right in 3d animation. (Also, how does it sell swimming in ink despite the physical ludicrousness of this couple of inch, tops, thick goop being able to be swam in givent he proportions of the squid form?)
GeekachuIChooseYou still is a pretty good animation
The point being that they made those few frames look and feel really good. I'd say it probably has more to do with the ambient animations, i.e. the splashes and camera effects when launching in and out.
Today im gonna sleep early.
2am: why skyrims mining animation is bad
I was planning on sleeping at 10 now it’s 2:46
The character looks as bored as I am when collecting ore.
I'd love to see a video about how different games with different engines handle the interpolation and/or transition from one animation to the other.
And maybe one or more examples at how to do it right and how to not do it.
Gigantic has the best, most fluid game animation I have ever seen. We NEED a full video on Gigantic, maybe even a series.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
it's too bad Gigantic is gone, isn't it?
@@zyibesixdouze4863 According to the latest Shammy video, there's private servers, but they don't have all the updates.
Fallout 76 brings back mining but they removed the animation. You now just suck up the ore like any other object in the game.
Shit! The mining animation? Pretty much all of the character animations are bad. How about that jump animation? Have you ever seen the sprint animation in the 3rd person perspective?
Have you seen empty hand sprint animation in STALKER from 3rd perspective? Truly spooky experience
I never really figured if it's a problem with the engine or if they are just terrible at making those animations.
@@ViaUn0 Tho STALKER wasn't meant to be played in 3rd person.
But you sure could do an amazing anime run.
Also seems like NOTHING was done to accommodate the tails of argonians, it clips through stuff during practically every sitting animation.
It looks like a godsend compared to Morrowind and Oblivion's animations.
Doesn't change the fact that the animations look like they were made by a 10 year old in gmod, there were games on the n64 that had better animations than this
i see that cody's lab clip!
I just immagined the most random yet epic collab in the history of youtube.
Insightful and constructive without being a jerk. Well done! Love your vids!
You know who did mining animation right? Monster Hunter World. You can FEEL the heft the PC puts into those swings, and when you get stuck and have to dig it out, the effort is palpable.
Monster Hunter World's mining animation is pretty good for being simple. The previous MH games weren't bad too. They had some impact and weight to the swings unlike Skyrim.
You know theres a problem when you feel less of an impact than in minecraft
bethesda is just bad at animation is general
...And pretty much everything else except worldbuilding
Bethesda is bad at making games.
@@1997lordofdoom Skyrim: "Am I a joke to you?"
@@charliecrome207 pfffft have you played Skyrim? There are mountains everywhere!
@@charliecrome207 The world of skyrim is boring as shit idk what you're talking about
Honestly something as small as just adding a small particle effect when to imply dust (or sparks - some of the reference footage you showed had sparks) coming off the impact would likely have helped the core animation loop.
Gizensha Fox that’s what I was thinking! It could’ve made it a bit more real/actually connect with the object to sell the impact.
"Lets dig in..." ha i get it
Me using elemental fury on dual-wield pickaxes: I really don’t see the issue here
Tbh, there are so mane re-releases of this game that don’t make any improvements whatsoever, that I don’t accept any excuses from their part
When you begin to feel weirdly sad about pickaxe animation and then realise it's because The Streets of Whiterun is playing in the background.
Jeremy Soule is the tonal soul of Elder Scrolls at this point.
An episode on the Game Boy Advance Fire Emblem games would be a great example of how important strong key frames are in animation given the number of frames each animation uses. All three games use few frames to convey a lot of motion when it comes to how characters move, be it to convey how strong an attack is (Hector swinging his axe) or dodging a foe shortly before they thrust their lance.
Fighting game animations are also a great example of strong key frames, unless it's a neversoft game
3:11 Is that Cody?
Why yes it is!
Hah came to the comments for this! 100% it is him.
Shoddy quality in a Bethesda game? Unprecedented!
Before Skyrim, I was a helpless child of the earth. Now my wisdom and knowledge of life is unlimited.
Also its faster just to hit it
Wait. You can just hit the rock with the pickaxe equipped and mine the resources?!
@@fargoththemoonsugarmaniac Yes. And you can dual-wield to go even faster
I’m in the middle of a Skyrim playthrough right now, with hundreds of hours under my belt mind you, and I had no idea this was a thing. I’m amazed.
@@fargoththemoonsugarmaniac He literally explains that in the video
At this point Bethesda is a meme
They say Ulfric Stormcloak murdered the High King with his voice, shouted him apart
@@joynelbonetdelgado4952 I used to be an adventurer like you..
@@Hanfgurkenhasser Town's guard kills dragon himself.
Guard:My cousins are fighting dragons and what do i get? Guard duty.
*joke
fallout 76 reinforced that fact
Oh god, that whack-a-mole dude...
I'm not 100% sure, but that might be Dan himself. I found an old interview (see here ruclips.net/video/hAk8i2hxQwA/видео.html ) showing off what Dan actually looks like (it's hard to find pics of him on the net oddly enough)
It's not me in the video! I just found the clip looking up people playing whack-a-mole on RUclips. And that guy was going for it with such intensity, it was just perfect.
How did you manage to make a 12+ min video about this topic?!
Damn, this music brings back some fond memories. All these hours I spent with this game. I love it
Ey, it's Cody! 3:10
i was looking for this
I love your work dude 😊
Its so professionally done.
Keep it up and I’m sure your channel will grow exponentially.
The animation is entirely pointless you can legit just smack the rock with a pick axe to get the same shit done quicker and with out the animation.
Remember the mining animation that Runescape has had for years? The one where the pace at which you mine changes and your character even wipes the sweat off their brow? How did Runescape do this better than Skyrim???
Only just found this channel. I'm a undergraduate games animator so it's awesome to have videos like this posing questions which I hadn't considered in my work.
The animation almost looks like they referenced some kind of scraping motion rather than a pick. Look at the way the arms pull the pickaxe back- it looks so much like you are scraping something away rather than rebounding/preparing for the next swing. It's easiest to see from the side-view Corundum shot in the episode. That's part of why I don't really like it- it doesn't even look like mining, but like i'm scraping at air.
Bethesda focused so much on smithing but didn't bother with the beginning of creating it. The start of all armors and weapons. Theirs even a tutorial on smithing.
Could you make an episode on why the animations in Rayman feel so God damn great?
I mean, I have binge watched enough of your videos now to have a good idea why, but maybe you can teach me something completely new to me.
I await your truth
One of the most weird aspects of this animation is that if you have a pickaxe equipped, your character stows it, and then magically pulls a second one from thin air, leaving both pickaxes visible.
My personal favorite Skyrim animation quirk is when an NPC (I think your character can too, don't remember) begin tapping their foot. I always like to think they're either impatient or are playing a tune in their head.
just duel wield the pickax and attack the ORE!!!
TechnoBabble not all of use carry an 8ball of meth with us at all time like you Mr. Techno
@@joezze-bear It actually does mine the ore. much faster than the animation too
Given the quality of the rest of the animations in the game (and the general animation in Bethesda games as a whole), it's probably safe to assume they don't have the best animators in the business. Sure, it's possible that they were strapped for time and had to compromise on some animations, but you'd think they'd at least put in some time on the more important animations like running or jumping. But nope, those are pretty bad as well.
It is not the capacitie of the animator that cause the animation to be bad (at last not the only thing)
Juste Bethesda who rush all their dev Fallout 76 bug can is a good exemple (some bug can be fix with a patch for fallout 4 so yes)
Ps sorry for my bad english
Bethesda: It's good enough.
I'd say it's probably the animation director who'd be at fault if it was anyone at all, not the animators themselves
It might be a case of quantity: Bethesda has an entire country to animate, and while they can reuse a bunch of that, they probably focus on getting all animations finished over making sure the core ones look nice (the "quantity over quality" approach that the Elder Scrolls games are very much built on)
Nah, I doubt it's the quality of the animators. I just checked the credits for Skyrim and found that the game only has 8 individuals listed under animation jobs. That's just too few people for a game of this scale without noticeable quality loss.
Compare that to say, Red Dead 2 which has 35 animators and that's not even including a robust mocap crew. Animation fidelity in large games directly corresponds with number of animators. Smaller or more focused games can handle fewer animators, but something like Skyrim or Fallout 4 would need a robust animation department to get the same polish as a Rockstar game, which just isn't in the cards for a studio of bethesdas size.
I've always given some leeway to Bethesda games. Small hitches and imperfections I can look past for the experience those games can offer. Bethesda has always favored quantity over quality, hoping that the sheer breadth and scope of their games will compensate for the minute imperfections all around. It seems that lately people are becoming less accepting of that formula, particularly as bethesda continuously erodes player goodwill with increasingly anti-consumer business practices and being a little too self aware of their notorious lack of polish without any real commitments to improving in that regard.
I feel the time constraints is the likely culprit here, the whole thing just screams "slap it together as a placeholder animation for now, we'll clean it up once we ensure the mining system is working right and that we're going to keep it" then just never got around to cleaning it up. It IS a rather tiny, easy to miss, and not core feature of Skyrim, a game kinda notorious for having a fair bit of jank and bugs. I'm willing to believe that they intended to clean it up but never did because the "clean up" list was about 20 miles long, and mining animation was at the bottom. Is there things the animators could have done to make it look better without taking up a lot more time, under the assumption that the first draft was going to end up being the final draft come release (as in they may not have been able to clean up the camera, or test the animation at several different nodes / starting points)?
Yeah but... they've also re-released Skyrim MULTIPLE times now. Including at least one re-release that was 'HD remastered'. And in none of those new editions are ANY of the jank and bugs fixed. The HD version isn't even as good as the mods for the game!
OMG, i feel like I've been living under a rock. I didn't know this was you Dan. Your voice is so different from the Extra Credits narration.
Your narration was the reason I subbed to that channel. Sorry i didn't know you and Carrie left, but I'm glad you two are still making videos.
Still gonna be weird not hearing that classic helium voice.
Glad you found us!
Sounds design isn't that good either here. Make it really pop, give it some reverb, make it sound deeper.