This time, it makes sense. *_Why wouldn't he be alive?_* That's a better question. The Empire will exploit him now. He and Andor quite visibly led a prison rebellion and escape. They wouldn't just execute him, they'd *_use_* him somehow. Maybe break him horribly. From another point of view, the character was magnificent. Great writing, knockout performance. I trust Gilroy to continue that style.
For Kino Loy, while we understand his predicament, we never see him die, not even apparently. While his chances for survival seem unlikely, they aren’t impossible. Contrast that to Tech, that’s a completely different scenario. His apparent death, remember no dead body, was heroic and it had emotional gravity similar to Kanan Jarrus. Bringing back Tech would cheapen his sacrifice to save the others.
I also feel like no body was found because his body no longer exists since he would hit the ground at a pretty high speed and have his corpse crushed by the car he was hanging from.
First of all, never trust rumors! Andy Serkis could just do a flashback. Maybe he has a short scene resisting torture. Maybe he did jump but he got caught afterwards. Or maybe a good writer makes a great use of his character by tempting Andor to save him when he really shouldn't. And then fails. Or succeeds? Or doesn't even try? What we can do is just patiently wait for the second season and see why and how Kino Loy is there.
From all the characters that "somehow returned", Maul was the only one whose story was done well. Even then, it was kind of bull*** that he survived that, Sith or not.
Darth Maul is a master class of how to make a character survive and become a fan favorite icon. I only wish he and Darth Talon were the main villains of the Sequel Trilogy. Darth Talon came *this* close to becoming canon
His story at least had context. And we were like ah OK, that's how it worked. A lot of other characters we are just supposed to accept come back. I like that with maul they gave us reasoning behind how he survived at least.
Well it's good that powerful siths has this "Rage" ability akin to Trevor in GTA5, when they use their pain and anger to prevent themselves from taking more damage and survive for longer.
star wars has that whole 'if you dont see the body, dont assume dead'. We saw maul's body. In 2 pieces. If he was meant to survive or at least have an ambiguous fate, he should not have been cut in half, it just stretches the suspension of disbelief way too far. Personally I don't care how much subsequent story was added afterwards (even if it's well written), his not-dying was poor writing on the same level as bringing grogu back instead of leaving him with Luke. Seriously if a Sith lord can use the dark side to cheat death after losing 50% of their body, what next, Dooku can live on as just a head? Maybe attach it to a droid body and become like a grievous cyborg?
Kino Loy’s implied demise is one of the most emotionally impactful moments in a series that landed a bunch of them really well. In universe, of course I want him to have, like, made a raft and sailed away to live out his days in peace… but that’s why out of universe it’s great writing and why the moment hits as hard as it does.
I am so scared for star wars moving on because they might bring everybody back after a while. My biggest concern is the rumors of Windu returning, he is one of my favorite Jedi but his death had a great importance and i would hate for disney to bring him back.
I agree that the return of so many dead characters makes the stories worse, but if anyone looked like they were in a survivable situation at the time of their "death", it was Mace. Jedi lose arms and fall from giant heights all the time. Ahsoka would joke with the clones about who was gonna reach the surface first, and then jump out of the transport ship from a few thousand feet up.
I think that Mace's return can work as long as he is killed at the end of it. It would be cool to see him fall to the Dark side and basically be a terrorist against the Empire trying to take out Palpatine and Vader fully knowing what he is doing is wrong but like Luthen he is fully giving himself to the cause and is fighting for a future he knows he will never see.
@@Lord-Emperor-Vader do you really wanna see a disneyfied version of Mace Windu?? They will ruin his character the same way they did with Luke and Obiwan, thats what they do with legacy characters…🥲
If anyone can make the return of Kino Loy not only make sense, but be an interesting part of the overall story, it's Tony Gilroy. I can't wait for season 2.
If Kino Loy is back on S2 it will be because that was on their plans since the beginning and adding to the plot, I’m sure. S1 has done enough for me to trust Tony Girlroy
I'm always ok with almost any idea, as long as the execution works. We have two great examples in Star Wars: Maul and Palpatine. Both looked definitive, but one had a great execution, while the other one was terribly done. And I think Kino is not even one of those cases, because his sacrifice was never about him dying, it was about him not being able to escape, and with that in mind, him not jumping means the sacrifice was indeed kept intact. Now he's gonna have to go through whatever punishment the Empire has for him, and I'm honestly curious in seeing what they do with that.
I have no problem with kino coming back.. it never implied he would die there. Surely someone could help him. No one else being able to die tho does cheapen it
I think the thing that makes returning characters seem so empty many times, is the way they are written. So little effort goes into mechanisms as to why they return from simply no explanation to a throw away (placeholder) line such as "somehow Palpatine returns". Given that the writing, character motivation and the depth of the characters were so good in Andor, I would hope that if Kino does return, that the writers would craft the circumstances in such a way, that it feels worth it. Anyway, I won't judge it until I see it, I only hope that the quliaty of his return is given the writing effort it deserves.
If Kino Loy had “somehow returned” from the presumed dead in any other series besides Andor, I’d be disappointed. Even though he was hands down one of the best parts of the series, the death would have been completely meaningful and I was satisfied. However, this IS Andor, and given the excellence and tightness of the writing, I’m not worried at all. His return will have a great payoff. I’m really excited. #kinolives!
I think we are jumping the gun. We don’t even know what happened to Kino Loy and we are already deciding his “coming back” is unjust. Let’s wait for the full explanation of what happened to him before getting upset.
It's funny you guys perceive this character the way you do, but I believe he was absolutely not about sacrifice (a word you used a lot), but rather about giving his fellow prisoners that one chance. One way out. But he was never killed off, so there's no talk of resurrection either (and I honestly think Andor is above that Star Wars plague). It actually is one of the things that divides Star Wars into bad/meh content and premium one.
Yeah sacrifice sounds a bit too dramatic, it's more like doing something very altruistic to help others, regardless if you'd get what they did in the end.
The thing is, characters not staying dead is a trope of the serials that were a major influence on George in making Star Wars in the first place. That's why it has always been done. Prior to movie/TV serials it was, (and still is,) prominent in comics and serialized novels. This is why they stay with that in modern Star Wars and thank The Force for that.
Yes, I wish more characters would stay dead, but technically we never saw Kino die. We don't know how many survived, so I am fine if he does show up again as long as it is a good story. My problem is with the characters that did die on screen (or at least had improbable odds of survival) only to be brought back with poorly written story arcs. Somehow, he returned.
I think it's great that he'll be in Season 2. I like that he maybe jumped or somehow survived for a while longer to escape. For me he's a great character to be a ground troop commander and a hero that Cassian made him to be. I don't mind that he survived somehow. It's not that big of a jump for me. It's just the beginning of his journey and he could totally die in Season 2 and becoming even a bigger hero in death.
Honestly - I don’t think not jumping = dying. The empire loves to torture people for information. I did not assume that he would die. I assumed that he would be made to suffer. Which of course makes it even worse.
Remember his entire speech during the escape: he explicitly called on everyone to help each other to get out. Imo, he escaped with help from other prisoners who were inspired by him
I agree there's a problem with characters who ahould be dead coming back, but I don't really see it here. His sacrifice wasn't dying but getting everyone to escape knowing he couldn't. His "dying" is nothing morr than an assumption and his not dying does not diminish his sacrifice, because his death was never certain. The key component of his sacrifice was his knowing he had to face the consequences, and sometimes there are fates worse than death. Perhaps instead of making assumptions and reacting based on those assumptions we should just watch how his return is handled, and then go from there.
this is what pre-quels are for! to tell stories of favorite characters' past... he may have 'head cannon' about being a union chief, but if they create a story that needs to be told about Kino's past, by all means tell it!
We never saw Kino die so I see no issue with him coming back. However, there are an awful lot of people who comeback and prime example is Maul.... folks Maul was cut in half and fell down hundreds of feet while cut in half and most people seem ok with that. I for one never loved the idea of it. And there are tons of people who want Mace Windu to come back. PS I have no clue how Kino would come back but if he came back as a spy/traitor having been say tortured and turned by the empire in order to find Andor or anyone else that escaped, I'd be on board with that as it makes some sense for why the empire allow Kino to live.
you can be mad about every other character not dying except when it comes to andor where they clearly know what they’re doing. It will probably be a even more tragic end. clearly his story wasn’t over since he’s alive
A problem with Loy not jumping is that-considering what we know about Imps and prisoner policy at that facility-there is no way in the midst of all the chaos that the guards would have left ANY remaining prisoners to survive long enough for ISB to come in and sort things out, let alone the ringleader, Kino. Kill first, ask later.
Kino is left very ambiguous, he has a problem which we don’t see an easy solution for but we see nothing to imply his death, it’s not like he got cut in half or was on a ship that exploded or got stabbed through the guts with a lightsaber…
For me it wasn't so much "did Kino die or not?" His last line/expression was the perfect end because it illustrated how some of the most instrumental people in the galaxy's rebellion were left behind and forgotten just like that, because the few survivors who knew what he did weren't in a position to write the history books or organize a medal ceremony. And the episode was topped off by Luthen explaining he's fighting for a sunrise he knows he'll never see. I do hope Gilroy can write something that fits his reappearance... whatever it is. Maybe Disney is taking the "it worked for Gandalf" approach.
I would have liked the mystery of Kino’s fate better than knowing. I think having him come back makes his story less tragic. And with him coming back, they should have made it a surprise. I think they are telling people because they don’t have confidence people will watch their shows.
Fans aren’t enamored with Kino Loy, per se, they’re enamored with Kino Loy portrayed by Andy Serkis. If Kino Loy was played by any other actor, I don’t think we’d be seeing him in season 2.
Andor season 2 was already written in broad strokes before season 1 was shot so I highly doubt the popularity of Kino Loy is going to change Gilroy’s plan so I won’t be annoyed and count myself lucky to get more Serkis. 😅 Suddenly someone returns too often in some stories can be be grating but I don’t see that being an Andor problem given we already know how this story ends 😢
I really dislike when they bring a character who had meaningful arc and end back just to capitalise on popularity and make up for lacking script but I like it when they allow characters who already made huge impact on the series and has a lot of potential to escape seemingly impossible circumstances to fully realise their potential. So I have no problem with Andy Serkis and his character returning in season 2, as long as they have something valuable to add to his arc.
I grew up reading x-men comics, I'm well used to deaths not being permanent. It's more like a rite of passage for Marvel characters. I did assume he would jump to his death rather than turn back after after such a dramatic awakening for him. If he is brought back, then being tortured to death is probably the only way that won't feel pointless.
People make fun of the fake-out deaths in LOTR but Boromir stayed dead (and Gandalf for one film). The bigger the emotional moment, the more ridiculous it is to undo it. Kino felt like a Boromir. Plus, watching how Andor’s heroic actions leads to an ally sacrificing himself really added to the unconventional hero portrait that I found interesting.
I wouldn't mind if Kino appeared in a flashback where Cassian tries to save him but he drowns, I know it would feel useless and be unnecessary however they could use that as a massive part of Cassian's character/arc and thus justify it (that is if it even happens at all, but I do really hope they leave it unanswered and vague)
Definitly agree with thor ( well that whole video but yeah ) i think bringing back kino just to kill him would fit the story perfectly : showing that in every fight ( rebellion / revolution ) not all people will make it to see the the light of day and a great parallel with the character of luten and his speech. man u guys just reminded me how much i was hyped for this cant wait now to see the next season and more mon mothma scenes ^^
Reva getting stabbed twice with a lightsaber and living. Once as a child........And the grand Inquisitor getting the same by Reva. Well that killed Qui-gon
I think that if the death was only implied then it is fine which is why I want to see Kino come back if they should be dead and their is no chance of them surviving then they should not be brought back which is why I don't want to see Tech return, if there is a chance they could survive then they should do it only once in a while and as long as it is done well (like Maul).
It is good to have popular characters die. That gives a better feeling to the story. No-one is safe. But bringing dead people back is just stupid, really. Maul was well done in a way Palpatine totally crap. So let them be dead and give us new exciting ones.
I would say only Luke since there was at least a reason to have Han die, Luke literally died because Rian Johnson wanted him to die. If Carrie Fisher didn't pass away (and her story in episode 9 went the same way) then I would say the same about her but since they had little to use and wanted to pay tribute to her passing it makes sense.
Personally, I wouldn't want to return to find out what happened to Kino; I like the mystery of it. But story-wise, I can see how once Luthen finds out about the prison/industrial complex from Andor, he'll have Saw & Andor lead a strike against them. The resulting delay would be a devastating setback to the Death Star's completion schedule.
Star Wars these days is like a box of toys for the directors. You pick whatever you like, play with it, and put it back in the box. You don't kill the characters because that means the toy is broken and you can't play with it anymore next time. Which is kind of sad, Star Wars needs some characters to die to show the audience there are stakes in this galaxy...
rey could've plausibly learned to swim while on ach to with Luke, we aren't really told how long exactly she was there and there is definitely a plethora of water on the planet, so I can buy she learned to swim while there.... ...what I don't buy is keno loy not jumping and staying to wait for the empire to come get him....i dont buy that ish....him coming back just seems less plausible than Rey swimming...also, I dont really get what the purpose of him returning really serves the story, other than getting info about andor from him....that's the only plausible path for him to be brought back in context of the story is to torture him for andor info....
Or how about this? Save Kino but torture him by having him watch and hear the guards torture the other prisoners contorting with more electrified floors turned on than ever. If you've ever seen A Clockwork Orange, you might remember how they kept the eyes open without blinking or any chance of closing to avoid watching horrors using eye drops and lid locks. That ramps up the technique used on Bix Caleen forced only to listen.
the scariest thing about this is Andor's viewership i can see that as being a reason for Disney to get involved even though it was reviewed well. Hope not but makes me nervous.
Andor literally gave us the best written show in years & people are out here panicking about something in the hands of Gilroy & co. lmao (Star Wars PTSD is a real thing - just mention the phrase 'still alive' or 'returned' & people start twitching.
What if they bring back a broken Kino Loy turned into a puppet for the empire who testifies in defense of the prison and against the rioters to quell the attempt by Melshi and possibly Mon Mothma to bring this issue up in the Senate?
Just because he couldn't swim doesn't mean he's dead. There are a number of options he could have survived. The prison was a water facility so there were probably safety rafts, vests, or literally anything that float. He probably had enough time to find a object that floats. Other options include him getting a uniform of the guards so that way he could sneak out when reinforcements arrive. But for other characters like Palpatine, Darth Maul that were clearly dead and then come back is just retarded.
Kino Loy puts on a uniform and he pretends to be an imperial to avoid recapture. Time tested Star Wars trope. Now hes free or maybe hes keeping up the imperial facade and now hes an inside man. Or hes the template for Snoke because his DNA is compatible with midichlorians or something.
well, the whole "no-one is ever really gone" or no-one dies thing... it's really ruined Star Wars for me. But, I'm an adult now, I require a certain degree of reality to fully invest in a movie or TV show now I guess, and you could argue that Star Wars, and in particular Disney Star Wars is made for kids not adults. With the exception of Andor and Rogue One maybe. When I was a kid, the impact of someone dying in the movies or TV shows I watched, was very effective, yeh a little scary, but let's face it... people die ! In real life, people do die, everyone dies ! Star Wars is a great way to get introduced to that concept if you are a young kid, as it's not real but it's real to you as a kid in a way. I remember asking my parents about death, as a four year old, the first time I saw some-one die on TV, it's a very important conversation to have and maybe not every kid does have that conversation with their parents until someone actually does pass away in the family. I don't know, I think that 'dumbing down' everything, like Disney do, is detrimental to the whole Star Wars universe and takes a lot of reality out of the galaxy far far away for everyone watching.
They killed off Kuiil. My fave character from Mando. And I would hate it if they brought him back. Who cares if he was buried? Apparently getting run through with a lightsaber isn’t a death sentence anymore. So there’s nothing to stop them from bringing back a buried, zombified Kuiil. 🤷🏼♂️
I can't really think of a "This character somehow survived" in star wars before Disney (Apart from Maul, which was done flawlessly) Since Disney, however, it seems characters just refuse to die I was almost a bit annoyed at the mandalorian season 1 for not having Mando die, but they somehow managed to make a great second season (not talking third though), but Palpatine, Boba (Boba's survival was actually decent, but his series was a disaster), that one random sherrif from the Dune Sea of whom I do not care in the slightest etc were all bland, uninspired stories after coming back (Sherrif hasn't come back yet but no doubt his story will suck if the pattern is unchanged) Bit of rambling here, the point is, characters dying need to stay in the ground
@@WyattIsaac045 Precisely. Despite being shot dead in the desert Characters being injured and left for dead should typically stay dead, unless there is a very good reason they survived, or their story forwards is enhanced (Maul)
Meh. Im not bothered by this. Kino was the only reason i managed to watch the whole show so now i have a reason to give season 2 a shot. Serkis goated.
I'll take somehow Kino Loy returned... over it was actually a Darth Gideon clone because there wasn't a mustache any day. At least I'll know that Kino has a role to play in the story besides pushing a memberberry in your mouth.
I’m pretty sure Moff Gideon isn’t dead. They pretty much showed off the clones and showed one open their eyes. They’re going to bring back moff Gideon next season because of the fact death is meaningless
Reva was the most egregious. Not only was her character trash. She survived being stabbed by Anakin in the stomach 2 times…!!!!!! Her dying in the Kenobi series may have made the series more manageable
Just say the character didn't jump or die because reasons or because after Disney found out what a big fan favorite he was they had to resurrect his dead ass. You're right. No one's ever really gone. Human beings are so arrogant in their beliefs about death. We invented a whole ass almighty god just to find a way to live forever. After we die. Science is always trying to discover de-aging (not the CG fuckery) and ways of extending life. We'll probably figure it out. What Disney will do is what they've gotten better than any studio at doing and that is.... nothing really. Andy Sirkus' character will just rock up to Cassien somewhere reporting for Rebel duty going, "what? I learned how to doggy paddle real quick like the future Rey Skywalker because I don't identify as a drowning victim" or something equally absurd.
This makes me so angry. The end of Kino’s arc in S1 was absolutely perfect. You don’t know whether or not he jumped, but you did know (or assumed) that we would never know the answer to that question, and that he was probably dead either way. That the prison he knew for so long would be his end, but he still saw the outside. I’m so sick of Disney sacrificing good writing because they can’t resist using a character again.
Why is it making you angry? Did you see him get killed? Simmer down and wait. There is NOTHING wrong about Keno returning...in fact it is the most sensible thing. This is no way akin to them frivolously bringing him back from the dead...which I would have a definite problem with. I am good with him coming back and I am good with not knowing what happened to him.
See I come at this from a different angle. The problem with characters coming back from the dead is the over use of killing characters off in the first place, to give an audience that momentary rush of emotion. But then you are stuck with either bringing them back and or not being able to ever use an interesting one again. I've always been a fan of don't kill off a good writing resource. Death's should be rare and meaningful to the story. And it's way over used in modern storytelling because it's cheap and easy. They should learn to train audiences that there are other emotions that are just as story changing other than death. Other plot points that can achieve that effect. All this was a long winded way to say I'm fine with him coming back because we never saw him die.
Non stick death.. Yea it's a shitty thrope at this point.. Get better writers... In the case of Kino, there is however no real reason that he would be dead, or will be killed.. Simply put him back to work, he will die eventually.. It does not seem like the empire to waste labours for no reason, but frankly that whole prison story was a little wonky, if you just move them around, the truth was bound to come out. "Oh i was supposed to go home yesterday but they moved me here. Probberly just a mistake.. 300 days later...." It dont matter if they not working with people they worked with before or not.
You really think Disney would make their LGBT character who is also happens to be woman of colour the worst monster of them all (imp facists included)?
No one stays dead for a few reasons: 1.) because these properties are no longer attempts at artistic expressions. Now, they are just "content", which means that they have to always be trying to hook and re-hook the rube - sorry, the viewer - for the sake of subscriptions; 2.) because these properties are nothing but "content", they have to keep all of their options open to them at all times, in perpetuity. "We cannot kill X, because what if we want to use them later?" It is essentially hoarding, the faulty belief that you may want to look at that old newspaper from January 1987 again sometime in the far flung future; 3.) it is intellectual and creative laziness and lack of confidence, akin to why for a decade or longer movies and tv shows have largely been an endless stream of reboots and sequels. Most writers are hacks that come out of the same trust fund pipeline - they come from the same cities, go to the same schools, etc. Studios know that none of them have neither the creativity nor the courage to write something or someone original (and when they do, they tend to fail because they have an agenda to push, but that is another conversation). So instead, they either play it safe with their hoarded roster of characters, or else use or sacrifice those characters (Han, Leia, Luke, Obi-wan, Boba Fett, Mando, Palpatine (who somehow returned...)) as a means of springboard for their newer characters. At the end of the day, it is cowardice. Case in point: Finn. In The Last Jedi, he had the opportunity to die a perfect, meaningful, and story-relevant death. His character went from being a coward who runs away to cover his own life (ironic, that...) to someone willing to give his live in order give his friends a chance to escape. Perfect. Death. Instead, he is saved by a deus ex machina because love and all the feels. The best thing Disney could do for Star Wars as a whole would be to open their next marquee movie or show with a major death in the first episode/hr. Pull an Eddard Stark. No one, so far as I have heard, ever stopped watching Game of Thrones because of killing him. Rather, it brought them back for more, and the fans were ravenous for the next season. But what do I know?
Its simple to me, having a character die is not a financially wise decision. All discussion we have on star wars can be reduced to pictures of ben Franklin
It’s lazy, greedy, and cowardly. They kill off a character and when they realize he/she was popular and can be milked further, they resurrect. They’ll come up with a convoluted and unrealistic story to make that happen - no matter how ridiculous. See Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Palpatine.
Maul was super well done in TCW and Boba came back in legends and probably had the easiest chances realistically. As for palpatine there really is no excuse
This time, it makes sense. *_Why wouldn't he be alive?_* That's a better question. The Empire will exploit him now. He and Andor quite visibly led a prison rebellion and escape. They wouldn't just execute him, they'd *_use_* him somehow. Maybe break him horribly. From another point of view, the character was magnificent. Great writing, knockout performance. I trust Gilroy to continue that style.
Force Ghosts are one thing, but Disney has taken things too far with everyone surviving everything. There’s no stakes anymore
Certainly you've noticed comments listing countless Star Wars characters who have died.
For Kino Loy, while we understand his predicament, we never see him die, not even apparently. While his chances for survival seem unlikely, they aren’t impossible. Contrast that to Tech, that’s a completely different scenario. His apparent death, remember no dead body, was heroic and it had emotional gravity similar to Kanan Jarrus. Bringing back Tech would cheapen his sacrifice to save the others.
I also feel like no body was found because his body no longer exists since he would hit the ground at a pretty high speed and have his corpse crushed by the car he was hanging from.
I mean a couple of his fellow inmates could've helped him, it's not that hard for several people to keep a man afloat.
First of all, never trust rumors!
Andy Serkis could just do a flashback. Maybe he has a short scene resisting torture. Maybe he did jump but he got caught afterwards.
Or maybe a good writer makes a great use of his character by tempting Andor to save him when he really shouldn't. And then fails. Or succeeds? Or doesn't even try?
What we can do is just patiently wait for the second season and see why and how Kino Loy is there.
From all the characters that "somehow returned", Maul was the only one whose story was done well. Even then, it was kind of bull*** that he survived that, Sith or not.
Darth Maul is a master class of how to make a character survive and become a fan favorite icon. I only wish he and Darth Talon were the main villains of the Sequel Trilogy. Darth Talon came *this* close to becoming canon
His story at least had context. And we were like ah OK, that's how it worked.
A lot of other characters we are just supposed to accept come back. I like that with maul they gave us reasoning behind how he survived at least.
@@pineapplepapercrafts "Reasoning"?? 😏 I must have missed that.
Well it's good that powerful siths has this "Rage" ability akin to Trevor in GTA5, when they use their pain and anger to prevent themselves from taking more damage and survive for longer.
star wars has that whole 'if you dont see the body, dont assume dead'. We saw maul's body. In 2 pieces.
If he was meant to survive or at least have an ambiguous fate, he should not have been cut in half, it just stretches the suspension of disbelief way too far. Personally I don't care how much subsequent story was added afterwards (even if it's well written), his not-dying was poor writing on the same level as bringing grogu back instead of leaving him with Luke.
Seriously if a Sith lord can use the dark side to cheat death after losing 50% of their body, what next, Dooku can live on as just a head? Maybe attach it to a droid body and become like a grievous cyborg?
Kino Loy’s implied demise is one of the most emotionally impactful moments in a series that landed a bunch of them really well. In universe, of course I want him to have, like, made a raft and sailed away to live out his days in peace… but that’s why out of universe it’s great writing and why the moment hits as hard as it does.
I am so scared for star wars moving on because they might bring everybody back after a while. My biggest concern is the rumors of Windu returning, he is one of my favorite Jedi but his death had a great importance and i would hate for disney to bring him back.
I agree that the return of so many dead characters makes the stories worse, but if anyone looked like they were in a survivable situation at the time of their "death", it was Mace. Jedi lose arms and fall from giant heights all the time. Ahsoka would joke with the clones about who was gonna reach the surface first, and then jump out of the transport ship from a few thousand feet up.
I think that Mace's return can work as long as he is killed at the end of it. It would be cool to see him fall to the Dark side and basically be a terrorist against the Empire trying to take out Palpatine and Vader fully knowing what he is doing is wrong but like Luthen he is fully giving himself to the cause and is fighting for a future he knows he will never see.
@@Lord-Emperor-Vader do you really wanna see a disneyfied version of Mace Windu?? They will ruin his character the same way they did with Luke and Obiwan, thats what they do with legacy characters…🥲
If anyone can make the return of Kino Loy not only make sense, but be an interesting part of the overall story, it's Tony Gilroy. I can't wait for season 2.
If Kino Loy is back on S2 it will be because that was on their plans since the beginning and adding to the plot, I’m sure. S1 has done enough for me to trust Tony Girlroy
I'm always ok with almost any idea, as long as the execution works.
We have two great examples in Star Wars: Maul and Palpatine.
Both looked definitive, but one had a great execution, while the other one was terribly done.
And I think Kino is not even one of those cases, because his sacrifice was never about him dying, it was about him not being able to escape, and with that in mind, him not jumping means the sacrifice was indeed kept intact. Now he's gonna have to go through whatever punishment the Empire has for him, and I'm honestly curious in seeing what they do with that.
I have no problem with kino coming back.. it never implied he would die there. Surely someone could help him. No one else being able to die tho does cheapen it
I think the thing that makes returning characters seem so empty many times, is the way they are written.
So little effort goes into mechanisms as to why they return from simply no explanation to a throw away (placeholder) line such as "somehow Palpatine returns".
Given that the writing, character motivation and the depth of the characters were so good in Andor, I would hope that if Kino does return, that the writers would craft the circumstances in such a way, that it feels worth it.
Anyway, I won't judge it until I see it, I only hope that the quliaty of his return is given the writing effort it deserves.
If Kino Loy had “somehow returned” from the presumed dead in any other series besides Andor, I’d be disappointed. Even though he was hands down one of the best parts of the series, the death would have been completely meaningful and I was satisfied. However, this IS Andor, and given the excellence and tightness of the writing, I’m not worried at all. His return will have a great payoff. I’m really excited. #kinolives!
I think we are jumping the gun. We don’t even know what happened to Kino Loy and we are already deciding his “coming back” is unjust. Let’s wait for the full explanation of what happened to him before getting upset.
It's funny you guys perceive this character the way you do, but I believe he was absolutely not about sacrifice (a word you used a lot), but rather about giving his fellow prisoners that one chance. One way out.
But he was never killed off, so there's no talk of resurrection either (and I honestly think Andor is above that Star Wars plague).
It actually is one of the things that divides Star Wars into bad/meh content and premium one.
Yeah sacrifice sounds a bit too dramatic, it's more like doing something very altruistic to help others, regardless if you'd get what they did in the end.
The thing is, characters not staying dead is a trope of the serials that were a major influence on George in making Star Wars in the first place. That's why it has always been done. Prior to movie/TV serials it was, (and still is,) prominent in comics and serialized novels. This is why they stay with that in modern Star Wars and thank The Force for that.
Yes, I wish more characters would stay dead, but technically we never saw Kino die. We don't know how many survived, so I am fine if he does show up again as long as it is a good story. My problem is with the characters that did die on screen (or at least had improbable odds of survival) only to be brought back with poorly written story arcs. Somehow, he returned.
Tony Gilroy insisted on complete control of the Andor project. I don't think Disney are able to make him do anything he doesn't want to.
I think it's great that he'll be in Season 2. I like that he maybe jumped or somehow survived for a while longer to escape. For me he's a great character to be a ground troop commander and a hero that Cassian made him to be. I don't mind that he survived somehow. It's not that big of a jump for me. It's just the beginning of his journey and he could totally die in Season 2 and becoming even a bigger hero in death.
Honestly - I don’t think not jumping = dying. The empire loves to torture people for information. I did not assume that he would die. I assumed that he would be made to suffer. Which of course makes it even worse.
Remember his entire speech during the escape: he explicitly called on everyone to help each other to get out. Imo, he escaped with help from other prisoners who were inspired by him
Thor's drunken chain-smoking Mickey impersonation was spot on.
I agree there's a problem with characters who ahould be dead coming back, but I don't really see it here. His sacrifice wasn't dying but getting everyone to escape knowing he couldn't. His "dying" is nothing morr than an assumption and his not dying does not diminish his sacrifice, because his death was never certain. The key component of his sacrifice was his knowing he had to face the consequences, and sometimes there are fates worse than death.
Perhaps instead of making assumptions and reacting based on those assumptions we should just watch how his return is handled, and then go from there.
I just hope we don't get too much information on the happenings of Kino before the next season.
I'm fine with Kino Loy just showing up randomly and us seeing him make it out somehow in a flashback.
I understand Kino being alive. I think for now it doesn’t cheapen that moment where he stays behind, but I otherwise agree.
this is what pre-quels are for! to tell stories of favorite characters' past... he may have 'head cannon' about being a union chief, but if they create a story that needs to be told about Kino's past, by all means tell it!
We never saw Kino die so I see no issue with him coming back. However, there are an awful lot of people who comeback and prime example is Maul.... folks Maul was cut in half and fell down hundreds of feet while cut in half and most people seem ok with that. I for one never loved the idea of it. And there are tons of people who want Mace Windu to come back.
PS I have no clue how Kino would come back but if he came back as a spy/traitor having been say tortured and turned by the empire in order to find Andor or anyone else that escaped, I'd be on board with that as it makes some sense for why the empire allow Kino to live.
We never even saw him die. I don’t think this is comparable to other fake deaths we’ve seen in SW.
Qui Gon Jinn really got a raw deal
you can be mad about every other character not dying except when it comes to andor where they clearly know what they’re doing. It will probably be a even more tragic end. clearly his story wasn’t over since he’s alive
A problem with Loy not jumping is that-considering what we know about Imps and prisoner policy at that facility-there is no way in the midst of all the chaos that the guards would have left ANY remaining prisoners to survive long enough for ISB to come in and sort things out, let alone the ringleader, Kino. Kill first, ask later.
I believe that if kino stayed and the empire came he would kill himself before the empire could, they still have plenty of guns
Kino is left very ambiguous, he has a problem which we don’t see an easy solution for but we see nothing to imply his death, it’s not like he got cut in half or was on a ship that exploded or got stabbed through the guts with a lightsaber…
For me it wasn't so much "did Kino die or not?" His last line/expression was the perfect end because it illustrated how some of the most instrumental people in the galaxy's rebellion were left behind and forgotten just like that, because the few survivors who knew what he did weren't in a position to write the history books or organize a medal ceremony. And the episode was topped off by Luthen explaining he's fighting for a sunrise he knows he'll never see.
I do hope Gilroy can write something that fits his reappearance... whatever it is. Maybe Disney is taking the "it worked for Gandalf" approach.
It wouldnt suprise me if evey main character who died from Rogue One would somehow come back to life, only Disney could make that magically happen.
I would have liked the mystery of Kino’s fate better than knowing. I think having him come back makes his story less tragic. And with him coming back, they should have made it a surprise. I think they are telling people because they don’t have confidence people will watch their shows.
Fans aren’t enamored with Kino Loy, per se, they’re enamored with Kino Loy portrayed by Andy Serkis. If Kino Loy was played by any other actor, I don’t think we’d be seeing him in season 2.
Everything about that opening animation is awesome especially Darth Wicket
Andor season 2 was already written in broad strokes before season 1 was shot so I highly doubt the popularity of Kino Loy is going to change Gilroy’s plan so I won’t be annoyed and count myself lucky to get more Serkis. 😅 Suddenly someone returns too often in some stories can be be grating but I don’t see that being an Andor problem given we already know how this story ends 😢
I really dislike when they bring a character who had meaningful arc and end back just to capitalise on popularity and make up for lacking script but I like it when they allow characters who already made huge impact on the series and has a lot of potential to escape seemingly impossible circumstances to fully realise their potential. So I have no problem with Andy Serkis and his character returning in season 2, as long as they have something valuable to add to his arc.
I grew up reading x-men comics, I'm well used to deaths not being permanent. It's more like a rite of passage for Marvel characters.
I did assume he would jump to his death rather than turn back after after such a dramatic awakening for him. If he is brought back, then being tortured to death is probably the only way that won't feel pointless.
People make fun of the fake-out deaths in LOTR but Boromir stayed dead (and Gandalf for one film). The bigger the emotional moment, the more ridiculous it is to undo it. Kino felt like a Boromir.
Plus, watching how Andor’s heroic actions leads to an ally sacrificing himself really added to the unconventional hero portrait that I found interesting.
I wouldn't mind if Kino appeared in a flashback where Cassian tries to save him but he drowns, I know it would feel useless and be unnecessary however they could use that as a massive part of Cassian's character/arc and thus justify it (that is if it even happens at all, but I do really hope they leave it unanswered and vague)
Love your channel! I would rather they bring back Sergeant Linus Mosk as he and Syril Karn made for a fun and unlikely duo.
Definitly agree with thor ( well that whole video but yeah ) i think bringing back kino just to kill him would fit the story perfectly : showing that in every fight ( rebellion / revolution ) not all people will make it to see the the light of day and a great parallel with the character of luten and his speech. man u guys just reminded me how much i was hyped for this cant wait now to see the next season and more mon mothma scenes ^^
If it weren’t for how much Disney has been reviving characters, I wouldn’t mind this, even if it would hurt the whole message behind his story
Reva getting stabbed twice with a lightsaber and living. Once as a child........And the grand Inquisitor getting the same by Reva.
Well that killed Qui-gon
I think the only way he can live is if something super horrible happens to him. Cuz his character was so good.
I hope they do this right. If it were anyone but Tony Gilroy, I'd be pissed right now.
Certainly you've noticed all the comments listing the endless stream of characters who perish in Star Wars?
I think that if the death was only implied then it is fine which is why I want to see Kino come back if they should be dead and their is no chance of them surviving then they should not be brought back which is why I don't want to see Tech return, if there is a chance they could survive then they should do it only once in a while and as long as it is done well (like Maul).
It is good to have popular characters die. That gives a better feeling to the story. No-one is safe. But bringing dead people back is just stupid, really. Maul was well done in a way Palpatine totally crap. So let them be dead and give us new exciting ones.
And yet Luke and Han both died pointless deaths, going out like bitches, and they aren’t coming back any time soon
I would say only Luke since there was at least a reason to have Han die, Luke literally died because Rian Johnson wanted him to die. If Carrie Fisher didn't pass away (and her story in episode 9 went the same way) then I would say the same about her but since they had little to use and wanted to pay tribute to her passing it makes sense.
I wouldn't call Han's death pointless or forced, and I'm the one who doesn't like sequels.
Loved Andor. Cant deny it.
Personally, I wouldn't want to return to find out what happened to Kino; I like the mystery of it. But story-wise, I can see how once Luthen finds out about the prison/industrial complex from Andor, he'll have Saw & Andor lead a strike against them. The resulting delay would be a devastating setback to the Death Star's completion schedule.
Star Wars these days is like a box of toys for the directors. You pick whatever you like, play with it, and put it back in the box. You don't kill the characters because that means the toy is broken and you can't play with it anymore next time. Which is kind of sad, Star Wars needs some characters to die to show the audience there are stakes in this galaxy...
rey could've plausibly learned to swim while on ach to with Luke, we aren't really told how long exactly she was there and there is definitely a plethora of water on the planet, so I can buy she learned to swim while there....
...what I don't buy is keno loy not jumping and staying to wait for the empire to come get him....i dont buy that ish....him coming back just seems less plausible than Rey swimming...also, I dont really get what the purpose of him returning really serves the story, other than getting info about andor from him....that's the only plausible path for him to be brought back in context of the story is to torture him for andor info....
Or how about this? Save Kino but torture him by having him watch and hear the guards torture the other prisoners contorting with more electrified floors turned on than ever. If you've ever seen A Clockwork Orange, you might remember how they kept the eyes open without blinking or any chance of closing to avoid watching horrors using eye drops and lid locks. That ramps up the technique used on Bix Caleen forced only to listen.
It gives me hope that somehow Wade also survived...
the scariest thing about this is Andor's viewership i can see that as being a reason for Disney to get involved even though it was reviewed well. Hope not but makes me nervous.
Hope they'd get their profit, give Tony Gilroy the money needed and leave him the f alone.
Andor literally gave us the best written show in years & people are out here panicking about something in the hands of Gilroy & co. lmao (Star Wars PTSD is a real thing - just mention the phrase 'still alive' or 'returned' & people start twitching.
What if they bring back a broken Kino Loy turned into a puppet for the empire who testifies in defense of the prison and against the rioters to quell the attempt by Melshi and possibly Mon Mothma to bring this issue up in the Senate?
Qui Gon Ginn? Mace Windu? TK 421? Kanas Jarrus? Anakin Skywalker? Master Yoda? not dead to you?
Just because he couldn't swim doesn't mean he's dead. There are a number of options he could have survived. The prison was a water facility so there were probably safety rafts, vests, or literally anything that float. He probably had enough time to find a object that floats. Other options include him getting a uniform of the guards so that way he could sneak out when reinforcements arrive. But for other characters like Palpatine, Darth Maul that were clearly dead and then come back is just retarded.
At this point I watch star wars just expecting peoples "deaths" to be undone sooner or later.
Kino Loy puts on a uniform and he pretends to be an imperial to avoid recapture. Time tested Star Wars trope. Now hes free or maybe hes keeping up the imperial facade and now hes an inside man. Or hes the template for Snoke because his DNA is compatible with midichlorians or something.
well, the whole "no-one is ever really gone" or no-one dies thing... it's really ruined Star Wars for me. But, I'm an adult now, I require a certain degree of reality to fully invest in a movie or TV show now I guess, and you could argue that Star Wars, and in particular Disney Star Wars is made for kids not adults. With the exception of Andor and Rogue One maybe.
When I was a kid, the impact of someone dying in the movies or TV shows I watched, was very effective, yeh a little scary, but let's face it... people die ! In real life, people do die, everyone dies !
Star Wars is a great way to get introduced to that concept if you are a young kid, as it's not real but it's real to you as a kid in a way.
I remember asking my parents about death, as a four year old, the first time I saw some-one die on TV, it's a very important conversation to have and maybe not every kid does have that conversation with their parents until someone actually does pass away in the family. I don't know, I think that 'dumbing down' everything, like Disney do, is detrimental to the whole Star Wars universe and takes a lot of reality out of the galaxy far far away for everyone watching.
They killed off Kuiil. My fave character from Mando. And I would hate it if they brought him back. Who cares if he was buried? Apparently getting run through with a lightsaber isn’t a death sentence anymore. So there’s nothing to stop them from bringing back a buried, zombified Kuiil. 🤷🏼♂️
Who came back to life now? If we did not see Kino die, so what is the issue?
If Disney intervenes we will get baby Jabba to join Andor. Or a baby chewie. Or whatever. Something small and cute. 😛
I can't really think of a "This character somehow survived" in star wars before Disney (Apart from Maul, which was done flawlessly)
Since Disney, however, it seems characters just refuse to die
I was almost a bit annoyed at the mandalorian season 1 for not having Mando die, but they somehow managed to make a great second season (not talking third though), but Palpatine, Boba (Boba's survival was actually decent, but his series was a disaster), that one random sherrif from the Dune Sea of whom I do not care in the slightest etc were all bland, uninspired stories after coming back (Sherrif hasn't come back yet but no doubt his story will suck if the pattern is unchanged)
Bit of rambling here, the point is, characters dying need to stay in the ground
Actually the sheriff is shown alive in book of boba fett after credits
@@WyattIsaac045 Precisely. Despite being shot dead in the desert
Characters being injured and left for dead should typically stay dead, unless there is a very good reason they survived, or their story forwards is enhanced (Maul)
Meh. Im not bothered by this. Kino was the only reason i managed to watch the whole show so now i have a reason to give season 2 a shot. Serkis goated.
Fans: Andor is perfect. Don't tamper with it.
Lucasfilm: Hold my . . .
Fans: Hold my what? Beer?
Lucasfilm: Um. Yeah. Beer.
Kino -> Snoke... confirmed?!?
Stat wars is creatively bankrupt
I'll take somehow Kino Loy returned... over it was actually a Darth Gideon clone because there wasn't a mustache any day. At least I'll know that Kino has a role to play in the story besides pushing a memberberry in your mouth.
I’m pretty sure Moff Gideon isn’t dead. They pretty much showed off the clones and showed one open their eyes. They’re going to bring back moff Gideon next season because of the fact death is meaningless
Reva was the most egregious. Not only was her character trash. She survived being stabbed by Anakin in the stomach 2 times…!!!!!! Her dying in the Kenobi series may have made the series more manageable
Just say the character didn't jump or die because reasons or because after Disney found out what a big fan favorite he was they had to resurrect his dead ass. You're right. No one's ever really gone. Human beings are so arrogant in their beliefs about death. We invented a whole ass almighty god just to find a way to live forever. After we die. Science is always trying to discover de-aging (not the CG fuckery) and ways of extending life. We'll probably figure it out. What Disney will do is what they've gotten better than any studio at doing and that is.... nothing really. Andy Sirkus' character will just rock up to Cassien somewhere reporting for Rebel duty going, "what? I learned how to doggy paddle real quick like the future Rey Skywalker because I don't identify as a drowning victim" or something equally absurd.
Disney lives off of cash grabs
This makes me so angry. The end of Kino’s arc in S1 was absolutely perfect. You don’t know whether or not he jumped, but you did know (or assumed) that we would never know the answer to that question, and that he was probably dead either way. That the prison he knew for so long would be his end, but he still saw the outside. I’m so sick of Disney sacrificing good writing because they can’t resist using a character again.
Why is it making you angry? Did you see him get killed? Simmer down and wait. There is NOTHING wrong about Keno returning...in fact it is the most sensible thing. This is no way akin to them frivolously bringing him back from the dead...which I would have a definite problem with. I am good with him coming back and I am good with not knowing what happened to him.
@@s.patterson5698 Someone liked TROS.
@@russellmxnia or maybe he just trusts the writers and directors to make this right.
@@ondrejmaceska6196 That’s exactly why you’ll be disappointed
Ehh, i dont think thats what theyre going to do, im more leaning to the empire enlisting him to hunt andor down
Thor, I thought you were the No1 Andor fanboy, how you don't have faith in them to treat Kino's fate correctly?
See I come at this from a different angle. The problem with characters coming back from the dead is the over use of killing characters off in the first place, to give an audience that momentary rush of emotion. But then you are stuck with either bringing them back and or not being able to ever use an interesting one again. I've always been a fan of don't kill off a good writing resource. Death's should be rare and meaningful to the story. And it's way over used in modern storytelling because it's cheap and easy. They should learn to train audiences that there are other emotions that are just as story changing other than death. Other plot points that can achieve that effect. All this was a long winded way to say I'm fine with him coming back because we never saw him die.
Normally nah…
But I trust Tony Gilroy.
In fact I trust Gilroy far more than Favereu and Filoni.
Non stick death.. Yea it's a shitty thrope at this point.. Get better writers...
In the case of Kino, there is however no real reason that he would be dead, or will be killed.. Simply put him back to work, he will die eventually.. It does not seem like the empire to waste labours for no reason, but frankly that whole prison story was a little wonky, if you just move them around, the truth was bound to come out.
"Oh i was supposed to go home yesterday but they moved me here. Probberly just a mistake.. 300 days later...."
It dont matter if they not working with people they worked with before or not.
Last 😅
Luke should have been alive in episode 9.
Horrible, but perfect. Perfect!
Please, more “Mickey” voice.
You really think Disney would make their LGBT character who is also happens to be woman of colour the worst monster of them all (imp facists included)?
Proudly the 69th like, Nice.
No one stays dead for a few reasons: 1.) because these properties are no longer attempts at artistic expressions. Now, they are just "content", which means that they have to always be trying to hook and re-hook the rube - sorry, the viewer - for the sake of subscriptions; 2.) because these properties are nothing but "content", they have to keep all of their options open to them at all times, in perpetuity. "We cannot kill X, because what if we want to use them later?" It is essentially hoarding, the faulty belief that you may want to look at that old newspaper from January 1987 again sometime in the far flung future; 3.) it is intellectual and creative laziness and lack of confidence, akin to why for a decade or longer movies and tv shows have largely been an endless stream of reboots and sequels. Most writers are hacks that come out of the same trust fund pipeline - they come from the same cities, go to the same schools, etc. Studios know that none of them have neither the creativity nor the courage to write something or someone original (and when they do, they tend to fail because they have an agenda to push, but that is another conversation). So instead, they either play it safe with their hoarded roster of characters, or else use or sacrifice those characters (Han, Leia, Luke, Obi-wan, Boba Fett, Mando, Palpatine (who somehow returned...)) as a means of springboard for their newer characters.
At the end of the day, it is cowardice. Case in point: Finn. In The Last Jedi, he had the opportunity to die a perfect, meaningful, and story-relevant death. His character went from being a coward who runs away to cover his own life (ironic, that...) to someone willing to give his live in order give his friends a chance to escape. Perfect. Death. Instead, he is saved by a deus ex machina because love and all the feels.
The best thing Disney could do for Star Wars as a whole would be to open their next marquee movie or show with a major death in the first episode/hr. Pull an Eddard Stark. No one, so far as I have heard, ever stopped watching Game of Thrones because of killing him. Rather, it brought them back for more, and the fans were ravenous for the next season.
But what do I know?
Its simple to me, having a character die is not a financially wise decision. All discussion we have on star wars can be reduced to pictures of ben Franklin
It’s lazy, greedy, and cowardly. They kill off a character and when they realize he/she was popular and can be milked further, they resurrect. They’ll come up with a convoluted and unrealistic story to make that happen - no matter how ridiculous. See Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Palpatine.
Maul was super well done in TCW and Boba came back in legends and probably had the easiest chances realistically. As for palpatine there really is no excuse