Niven's ONE RING to RULE them ALL ...[SPOILERS]
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- [SPOILERS] A review of Science Fiction Grand Master, Larry Niven's novel, Ringworld. An in-depth review covering the Known Space Universe, The Man Kzin War connection, Pierson Puppeteers, Lady Luck, and of course the celestial mega-structure called Ringworld!
The ringworld and the Known Space universe to which it was in is one of the greatest alternate reality universes ever imagined in sci-fi.
A great adventure created by Niven!
I read Ring World when I in my late teens. Now I have whole shelf of "Known Space" novels by Larry Niven. I still can't believe that none of those have been adapted into a movie. Hollywood cranks out the same old remakes over and over. Larry Niven's books are incredibly original on entertaining...
You’d think there was some pretty fertile ground there for a series or a movie!
Wasn't Halo a copycat?
@@philipwittamore I'm not a gamer, but from what I've seen the Halo "ring" looks pretty similar to The Ring World.
Me too I still have all the books.
@philipwittamore Halo rings are much smaller and don't have all the features of Niven's
The Integral Trees is another amazing book by Niven. Great review.
I've read some of the Kzin series, some short stories, his Pournelle collaborations and Ringworld of course. But that's a new one to me!
@@GrammaticusBooks I second The Integral Trees.
@@GrammaticusBooks Well worth a read.
Agree!
Oh, yeah...the smoke ring is way cooler and more original than ringworld. Still have my first ed IT hardcover from when I was a kid. Maybe best scifi cover ever?
The Lying Bastard was the ship they took from the Fleet of Worlds to the Ringworld; the ship Nessus promised Louis was the one they took to get to the Fleet of Worlds from Earth, which was called the Long Shot.
The Long Shot first appears in a short story by Niven, "At The Core" IIRC, Beowulf Schaefer (sp?) took it close to the Galactic Core.
Duly noted Ptorq!
@@joelcarson9514 That trip is where Beowulf discovers the core explosion of the Milky Way. Resulting in the race of the Puppeteers completely disappearing from Known Space and running to escape the core explosion, the forefront of which won't hit known space for 20,000 years.
@@joelcarson9514 Louis forms some opinions about the sort of man that must have piloted it before when he sees the cabin. Which a later book makes funnier in retrospect, since it's revealed that Beowulf Shaeffer was Louis' stepdad.
Oh yea! As a science person who loves Sci-Fi this novel had such a profound influence on me because of how he stuck with the science. Everything in the story was "possible" and for me that is what "Science" fiction is all about. I will read a fantasy for simple entertainment, but stories that stay close to reality while pushing the boundaries are riveting to me.
Exactly Hosea! Well said.
One of my favorite SF books. I met Larry Niven at Dangerous Visions Bookstore when he was signing “The Ringworld Throne.” I asked him a question about where the Puppeteer Fleet of Worlds was headed and he assured me he would answer that in future novels, which he did in the “Fleet of Worlds” series with Edward Lerner. Terrific books, all of them!
That’s a great story that you were able to meet Niven and talk Ringworld!
Ringworld was always one of my favorites of Niven's. I couldn't put it down. So many wonderful concepts! Monomolecular hulls, deadly sunflowers, the "tasp"... Just gold! I loved the Man-Kzin Wars as well, but Ringworld will always hold a special place. You've inspired me to re-read it! Thanks!
It's an excellent book and probably the best of the series Gibson!
Larry Niven is one half of my favorite(s): collaborations between Larry and Jerry Pournelle. 'Lucifer's Hammer,' 'The Mote in God's Eye,' 'Footfall:' amazing works of imagination grounded in science, with an underlying optimism about humanity.
Btw, I think Louis Wu's first name is pronounced "Louie" based on a scene in 'Ringworld.'
Hmm...my original reply was deleted for some reason. Lucifer's Hammer and Mote are fantastic novels. I have not read Footfall. And I probably should! Regarding Louis. Louis is his formal name. But he goes by Louie. Like a nick name. But your point is well taken!
@@GrammaticusBooks Larry hand corrected the infamous typo of "The children should have been spared" to "spaced" before he signed my copy of Mote. When Jerry went to sign it, he turned to the exact page, to correct it as well. I swear Jerry knew the page number on ever single edition and was still miffed at the editor 20 years later.
When I was 13 I ran out of books in my school library to check out and read on the subject I had been focused on (Military History, specifically WWII naval battles and air aces) and I turned around to the shelf opposite to find my next adventure. There on the shelf (in the mid-70s) were the masters of Sci Fi: Asimov, Campbell, Heinlein, etc. and of course, Niven. I was hooked, and have never unhooked. After 20 years in the Air Force and now working to launch rockets into space, I'm living that dream from so long ago. And I still have every one of my Niven books on the shelf next to me. Ringworld is certainly once of the best books of its era, and possibly of any in that genre. I want a General Products hull, darnit!
Wait aren't you the one making the General Products Hulls! 😉 It's a great book Gloredon. You know it's a great book when you can recall the exact circumstances when you found it! And thank you for your service!
I met Larry a few times over the years when he came up for Viking Con. I even got to show him and Jerry around Beliingham to collect backround for Footfall. I hope you're doing well Larry. R.I.P. Jerry.
That's a great story RH! I'll bet he was fun to talk to and hang out with.
@@GrammaticusBooks Bellingham is beautiful so taking them around the bay really wasn't a chore. I have no idea why Larry and Jerry came to Viking Con so often but they were frequent guests. Norwescon used to be a good convention for meeting writers too.
I’ve read it twice 😊
Footfall was brilliant!
"Sancho! My armor!"
I backed into Ringworld from a later Known Space book, Protector. I rarely see much love for Protector, but I thought it was a great book, and it got me into the rest of Niven's books. I was very fortunate to meet and spend a little time with him and Dr. Pournelle at various science fiction conventions.
That’s fantastic you were able to meet him! Your the second person to mention Protector.
I loved Protector. The idea of the Pak was fascinating to me as young teenager in the late 70s
As a side note, in his collaboration with David Gerrold "The Flying Sorcerers" the true name of his human character is never given. Instead all we get is the name provided by the translation device: "As a color - shade of purple gray". Asimov.
Hah! I did not know that!
It wasn't until my 4th-5th read-through that I got it.
Though the god "Nils'n" (sp?), whose symbol is "the horned box", I realized it was the Nielsen Ratings for TV on my second read.
Never found any other obvious puns, but I'm convinced there's more in there!
Ringworld was staggering in many ways. I remember when I first read the description of the Ringworld’s Meteor Defense I had to put the book down for a few minutes to let it soak in. No spoilers here, but astronomers have found natural versions of it, so no reason the builders couldn’t do it on purpose.
I don’t fault Niven for not fleshing out the various, uh, peoples that inhabited the Ringworld because it’s so damned big and there are so many, plus he was trying to describe them and their interactions and their histories and cultural imperatives all at the same time. No wonder we only meet one or a few of each to represent the few he introduced us to in the first book. The subsequent books introduce others, and the Maps and ring in the Protectors fairly smoothly. I’m glad he succumbed to the nagging.
True on the scale. And the potential for infinite peoples/cultures. Someone calculated there was more world space on Ringworld than the entire Foundation of Asimov's.
You had me at "Niven".
Right on!
@@GrammaticusBooks You reminded my of one of my favorite Niven books, and the only collaboration of his with another author that I've read, and that is "Flying Sorcerers". I'm sure that I have a copy of it here someplace, but for $6USD I splurged a bit and picked up another copy. Thank you for that. :)
One of my favorite lessons about leadership came from this novel. After the ship crashed, they had to walk to one of the rim walls. Speaker to Animals assumed the role of leader and declared one was closer. so they would go in that direction. It is one of many little gems in this novel that so uniquely combined hard science concepts and a really immersive story that celebrates the importance of having a sense of wonder. Each character discovers a renewed sense of wonder in Ringworld. I read it when it first came out. I am still walking to the arch.
I think that sense of wonder and discovery was the greatest aspect of this novel Jeff!
Ringworld was my introduction to Niven, and I think I read every bit of the Known Space novels and short stories. World of Ptavvs was another good read. Someone further down in the comments mentioned Rendezvous With Rama (Arthur C Clarke) as another example of mega structures with well thought out science. I agree.
A great series. I’m on the third book right now.
@@GrammaticusBooksThere is no Rama series. There is "Rendezvous with Rama" and then three tangles of words with the word "Rama" in the title.
A Gift From Earth was the first book I ever read. My hippie uncle turned me on to sci-fi. I was 14 and I was hooked. My uncle had a big book collection and I read pretty much all of it. Niven was my favorite.
I've always had a soft spot for authors that build a universe. His science background made him a natural with Pournelle, a physicist, and their joint efforts are great reads. Moties were quite clever aliens - their leader being the hindmost. Plenty of modern political allegory for those that enjoy such. The other great read along these lines was Lucifer's Hammer, which is my favorite of all post apocalyptic stories. Wire heads and ramscoops - love it.
Mote and Lucifer's Hammer are both great books Allen!
This has one of the best scenes and quotes in fiction. Where one of puppeteer's heads was cut off and Wu put a tourniquet on him. Someone said, "You put a tourniquet around his neck!" Wu says "Yes, but I saved him."
Definitely a good one!
I remember reading that when Ringworld was first published it had physics students teaming with structural engineers to figure out how to build one, this was at the same time that the US, ESA and Russia were beginning the concept of what is now ISS
A lot of scientists took on that challenge. Most notably a bunch of rowdy MIT students!
Respectfully, no. The US, USSR, and ESA were not planning the ISS in 1970. The US had planned Skylab, which was abandoned after 6 months, and considered putting up Skylab-B, but had no further plans about space stations until Space Station Freedom concept in the 1980s, which *eventually* did become the ISS. The USSR was hip deep in their own Salyut program at the time and the ESA was doing exactly nothing related to space stations. But nothing in 1970 had anything to do with the ISS
Ringworld and Protector were my favourite Niven books I read as a teen in the early 80s. Much later, I reread Ringworld when I got my hands on the sequel books, that did what we all hoped the original book would do - explore the world - but frankly, it got silly really fast in my opinion. Every species was constantly rishathra-ing each other's brains out...
Rishing...yes. I'm currently reading Ringworld Throne and I hear you on this!
@@GrammaticusBooksI would probably have loved that if I had read those books in my teens 🙂
This is a classic that I haven't had the chance to read yet. Going to move it up my TBR list. Great video!
Thanks Liminal! I think you'll like it. It's not without its flaws but still a center piece of SF.
I love Larry Niven's way with words, attention to scientific consistency and at the same time, his irreverence. for instance, I read Footfall when it first came out. almost 40 years ago. While I do not recall most of it, I am stuck with the image of airborne, bipedal elephants with platform tennis shoes. :)
That's quite the image!
Wonderful book. How can you not love space megastructures?! I'm a huge fan of 'Mote in God's Eye'...that book had a big impact on my thinking.
Mote is a great book SD! Probably due for a reread!
I think "The Gripping Hand" is *the best* sequel novel I've ever read
He's a genius of the "what if ..." and working out the plausible outcomes. Read his "Exercise in Speculation: The Theory and Practise of Teleportation" and "The Theory and Practise of Time Travel" papers.
He was definitely a great big-idea guy, and social theorist. It really comes out in his Ringworld novels. Thanks for checking out the video Orthicon!
"If you have nothing to say, say it any way you like"---- Larry Niven. His books are based on hard science.
An interesting quote John!
The Kazinti eventually became part of Star Trek during the animated series. Later they become Federation members and were seen in the end of Star Trek 4.
A lot of other SF authors co-opted (with permission) the man - Kzin war story. With Star Trek probably being one of the more famous.
Unfortunately they didn't appear in other series of Star Trek. They should have used them instead of the dreadful Gorn in Strange New Worlds. By the way, Elysium was not that bad. It was an action movie with a humanistic message. That is more than Trek is giving us nowadays.
IIRC Niven wrote an episode for ST: The Animated Series so he put the Kzinti in it himself.
@@mikehigashi9921TAS "The Slaver Weapon" was a rewrite of "The Soft Weapon" with Spock standing in for Nessus and Sulu and Uhura standing in for the Papandreou couple. The TAS rewrite gave us a take-no-sh1t Uhura, some pink Kzinti and a reasonably sporty-looking Starfleet shuttlecraft.
I had a somewhat limited time with both Larry and Jerry through Los Angeles fandom. I recall sitting around a group discussing the problems with ringworld’s stability and what could be done about it. All of Larry’s stories resonate with me. Especially when they include references to other fans as characters in his stories.
Were you able to meet them Mac? Great stories from those two!
You can say I met them but they didn’t meet me. lol.
I do have one interchange with Jerry in 1983 at the west coast computer faire. We were standing on the stairs at Moscone center and he commented to me about being in computers during a rescission. 😂
My first intro to Sci Fi was the novel by Andre Norton called Star Gate (preceded and not related to, the TV series or the Movie of the same name). when I first read it at age 13, I could not understand or comprehend what was actually going on in the story, but it was so intriguing that I read it again with a little bit of understanding and by then I was hooked on Sci Fi stories.
Sounds like a great intro to SF Russ!
the Online Game HALO is a representation of Ring World. the entire construct is well thought out, with alternating sun blocking panels to create day and night features.
I just recently learned that. Although I've known about the game for years I never, until recently, put the two together.
Loved this book, but really loved "World of Ptavvs."
A lot of good ones there by Niven!
Several years before Star Wars came out I read Ringworld and also Dune.
And I had to laugh to myself after people watch Star Wars wow the death star is so huge.
Tatooine is so amazing with It's desert and twin sons. 🤣🤣
Oh I love science fiction from people who never read a science fiction book
A lot of great ideas being shared around but that's what makes it great!
Ah, I see the RPG boxed set cover on screen at around 10:20. I finally got a copy of that a couple months ago and finished reading it last night. Great stuff.
I haven't read Ringworld in 20+ years, but I remember being blown away by the concepts. I'll be revisiting it soon. I just reread Protector a couple months ago. Niven isn't an especially artful writer, but boy howdy was he an idea guy.
Would you believe Matthew that until I did this video I wasn't aware of the RPG?!?
@@GrammaticusBooks I'm not surprised. I think it came and went pretty fast back in 1984. There was only one supplement released for it, right around the same time, which I think was mostly made up of "stuff we couldn't fit in the box." I mostly knew about it because my dad owned a copy and I used to drool over it when I visited him. At some point probably 30 years ago, he let it go to someone. I spent years trying to get a copy without paying an arm & a leg for it. This past holiday season, a friend of mine scored me a copy. It's pretty great, but also desperately in need of a 2nd edition with contemporary layout & design. Sadly, I don't see that happening. The selfish part of me would love Chaosium to revive it, but I think they took a hit the first time around, and Niven was a much bigger draw then than he is today.
Liked it too. A fantastic imagination and writer. Really liked 'The Integral Trees.'
I need to find a copy of the Integral Trees Jim!
I've read and re-read Ringworld multiple times over the years, literally till the covers fell off. Time for a re-read if I can find my copy.
Sounds like your favorite novel Fanta! It’s a good one!
The Known Space series and the Ringworld subseries itself add an interesting perspective to the whole thing, impossible for me not to relate them (also) to The Expanse saga.
I agree, I think Expanse was influenced by Niven as well.
Perhaps my favourite SF story of all time.
Either that, or Ring World Engineers.
Those are both great novels Chris!
Thank you SO much for reviewing this book!
One of my all time favorites by my favorite Sci- Fi author!.I hope you'll review more of Mr. Givens work especially his collaborative efforts with Jerry Pornell
I think the team up with Pournelle was most beneficial for Niven. Pournelle really offsets some of Niven's weaknesses. Mote is a great book!
I have faint memories of trying to read Ringworld, but I don't believe that I finished it. From your description, I think I may give it another try!
I think you’ll like it Steve. Let me know what you think of it.
Minor correction: You mentioned that Niven started his undergrad studies at the California Institute of Technology, and later on started graduate-level studies at CalTech.
Those are one and the same. CalTech is the abbreviation for the California Institute of Technology.
(It's also the setting for The Big Bang Theory.)
Ah, thank you!
I have just discovered your RUclips channel and I agree that Ringworld is a great book, having read it growing up along with many others by all of the masters of science fiction because my brother bought a lot of science fiction books and kept them in boxes in our shared room and the other unused bedroom of my parents house. That started a love of SF that continues to this day. I still have almost all those books though I haven't reread them in years. I just thought of a tie-in to the ending of Farenheit 451 where the protagonist joined a group of men who carried a few complete books in their brains in that I carry the plots of dozens of books in my head.
Great that you still have all those books Alimin! And keep those going in your head! That's awesome.
Hard SF went into a deep decline after Niven's ascendancy to Grandmaster, when Fantasy/Sword & Sorcery became all the rage. Protector is my favorite book.
That is one of his books I have not yet read Betty. I'll have to keep an eye out for it!
It provides background for the Ringworld Engineers.
My favorite author and awesome book! Thanks for you video on Ringworld, sadly now overlooked.
Thanks for checking out the video Idaho!
Nivens the mote in God's Eye, is a cautionary tale for us. The part where they take apart anything once it has fulfilled its present job to use the material elsewhere is in our future.
It's been too long since I've read Mote, I need to reread that one Steven.
Brilliant, Grammaticus. I am getting such a great education in the genre from your videos. Well done!
Thanks PT and thank you for checking out my videos. Much appreciated!
@@GrammaticusBooksI wanted to tell you that I received some YA Heinlein books from Thrift Books today. The first one that you recommended, Have Spaceship Will Travel, was in such terrible condition and so moldy that I will not be able to read it. I will, however, be able to read it on my kindle. I had downloaded a free sample. I think I’ll just get the book that way.
That's awful about the condition of Have Spacesuit Pat. Can you get a refund by chance?
Thanks for the recommendation. Your reviews are always top-notch, Grammaticus! 👍
Thanks Books! I appreciate that!
I think both ‘Ringworld’ and ‘Rendezvous with Rama’ have that big idea, literally. Both watershed concepts coming out within a couple years. As novels, I hesitate to admit this, I found them both to be a bit tedious. Good but not great. Niven and Clarke went on to capitalize on their big ideas with multiple sequels. I wish ‘Ringworld’ had been written with Jerry Pournelle and that ‘Rama’ had the awe and wonder of ‘2001: A Space Odyssey’ or the reveals of ‘Childhood’s End’
I can absolutely see how you would find them to be tedious Vintage. For me Rama was much more tedious than Ringworld though. I think Pournelle helped Niven on this front later in his career. Good stuff Vintage!
To be fair, what made '2001' such an awesome story was something called 'Stanley Kubrick'...
@@luiznogueira1579 Agreed. Book and movie are inseparable.
@@GrammaticusBooks I read 'Rendezvous with Rama' when it first came out but hadn't reread the book in nearly 40 years. Just read the book again recently and for the most part the word I would use now wouldn't be "tedious" but instead "sterile".
I enjoyed Rendezvous with Rama, but was disappointed with the other books in the series. The mystery was the greatest strength of the first book because we never got an answer as to who the aliens or find out why they created Rama.
excellent look at a primary influence sci fi book. yes, shallow characterizations but the ringworld was the main attraction. always felt Niven's forté was concept. hence the awesome story collections. Pournelle was a huge help for his later novels. a wise man accepts his limitations and finds a way to correct for them.
Agree 100% with Pournelle helping out on the dialogue and characters. Good points!
One of my early and all time favourites. In fact I like the whole menagerie in Known Space although probably more fun to read about than it actually live in it.
I disagree I'd love to live there. At least after the time of the organleggers
@@richelliott9320There is an old Chinese curse that goes something like, "May you live in interesting times." From all the stories set in Known Space, it seems like a very interesting place, i.e nice to visit but very dangerous. So I find while, Kzinti, Puppeteers and not to forget the Pac are each fascinating, not sure if meeting one would be healthy. I'm not Louis so from their point of view, not special so not protected by plot armor.
I see your point lol
Yes, I'd have fun living in it for about 30 minutes..until the vampires came after me!
The consistent scientific stories, based on believable, "theoretical" premises, of many of Niven's (and those with Pournelle) books makes imagining the world a pleasure
And not only the "theory"... for example, in the author's notes for "The Mote in God's Eye", it is discussed how they "imagined" how a society would "use" a compact, hand held, communications/recording/storage/information retrieval/writing device - things like not making a "list", because you could just record what you needed and retrieve it later!!!
Exactly Ross! Good point. I think it was very beneficial for Niven to have Pournelle helping with his writing. To help with dialogue and character.
@@GrammaticusBooks also, you bookshelf looks a bit like my bookshelf - vertical/horizontal/stacked-in till no more room - and I can see some of my favourite authors Asimov, David Weber, Niven, Frank Herbert, ...
I was thinking the same thing, ross. And I was a bit proud of myself at how many of them I have read. I've always felt my list of books read was kind of limited, and of course, it is, considering the incredible body of works written. At least now I can believe that I've made a good start.
Limiting Factor (1949) sets another "watershed celestial mega structure" about an abandoned one computer planet, build so high it covers 10 000 earths in surface
That sounds like another great mega structure idea!
Ringworld is very well thought out. It could be a setting for 100 stories!
Absolutely!
Read this book in about 1978 as a freshman in HS. I've read everything by Niven I've been able to get my hands on
It's a classic SF series for sure.
The Dream Park series co-authored with Steven Barnes is one of his best series.
I need to check that one out!
Good overview of Ringworld. It's one of those books that has had a long term influence on science-fiction.
Absolutely PN. A truly new idea in SF.
Oh the Ringworld is unstable
Oh the Ringworld is unstable
But he did the best that he was able
And that's good enough for me!
Nice I like it Briareos!
@@GrammaticusBooks - I didn't come up with that origjnaly. Apparently fans were chanting that at a sci-fi convention after those MIT students calculated that the Ringworld would be unstable.
Also, Iain M. Banks, in his Culture series, had Halo type rings he called Orbitals.
Another good one Todd!
I think I read some Jerry Pournelle books first, which led me to Niven. I remember all my reading, just not the order I read them!
If you've read any or all of Pournelle's Future History books, I'd love to hear your take on some of them. The Mote in God's Eye, King David's Spaceship, Falkenberg's Legion, etc.
And even though it's a shared world, I'm a huge fan of his War World series of books. That would make such a great series for a channel willing to make it!
I have read the Mote in Gods Eye and Lucifer’s Hammer. But it was a long time ago.
@@GrammaticusBooks if you can find King David's Spaceship, I think you'll like it. It takes place at the same time as Mote, but it's about a more primitive colony. More adventure scifi than Mote.
"Janissaries" by Pournelle is an interesting concept and a good read - try it?
@@jackaubrey8614 YES! That was a good one!
I'm a big fan of Niven's writing, but I would agree that his characters are not fully three dimensional. They're fun and serve their purpose, but we're not talking Ursula Le Guin or other modern authors. Larry's definitely in the hard sci-fi camp, and his technological focus always takes precedence over the inhabitants of his worlds. Just my opinion!
His prose and writing isn't quite at the level of some of his contemporaries. But his ideas and imagination were off the charts!
I seem to recall Wu being connected to Beowulf Shaeffer in the short story Flatlander, a part of the Neutron Star and Crashlander collections.
I know Niven did connect his characters within his Known Universe. But I cant say for sure about Beowulf.
@@GrammaticusBooksIn Flatlander, Beowulf fell in love with woman married to mathematician named Wu. She married him because he was a genius and thus was exempt from the Lottery.
Ha, maybe next time go into a few details, I.E Why did Louis name the ship "Lying Bastard"? What was Nessus most afraid of and why did Nessus either go to or go back to the Ringworld? Also why was the Ringworld off center and what was going to happen if Louis didn't figure out how to fix that? and lastly Who built the Ringworld? Love the Niven "Known Space" series.
Can't give away too much there Jond! And I try to keep my time at 15 minutes or less. But you're right those are all great details!
first read Nivens book "the adults"' back in the late 60's hooked for life!
That’s a new one to me Grim! I’ll have to keep an eye out for it!
I believe it is pronounced "Luweewu" as spoken by Louis himself during a formal introduction to the librarian in Ringworld Engineers:
Louis nodded.
“What’s your name? Mine’s Kawaresksenjajok.”
“Luweewu.”
You are correct in terms of how he's called in the book. But that's his nick name. Like calling Benjamin "Benji". His actual name is Louis Gridley Wu. Also, did you notice you referred to him as Louis in your comment? That's kind of funny!
@@GrammaticusBooks I have long suspected that his Louis was meant to be pronounced with a heavy French accent, deemphasizing the "s" at the end and placing an accent on the last syllable of the given part of the name... luWEE wu. A not-so-subtle allusion to the main character's mixed ancestry and multiculturalism.
@@GrammaticusBooks Hilarious! It is obviously spelled Louis, there is no argument. But I was discussing how it is pronounced, not how it is spelled. I believe it is meant to be pronounced in a French accent, dropping the s and placing an accent on the wee. I can show you multiple examples of where it is pronounced luweewu. Can you not give me one where it is pronounced looiss. Also, LN pronounced it luwee wu (albeit without a French accent) when he spoke at WorldCon and Fantasy Con in the mid 80s.
Ringworld has one of the most intriguing 'weapons' anywhere in sci-fi - the Tasp. I'm amazed it (or an analogue of it) has not been used elsewhere. I guess the next nearest thing would be the P.O.V. gun from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
If you have read Ringworld and Strata you might see where Pratchett got some inspiration for the latter.
Also, the eponymous Ringworld is not the only megastructure in the series; the Puppeteers' Fleet of Worlds is a Klemperer rosette.
Yup, the good ol Tasp! I have not read Strata yet though I'll have to check that one out.
The Kzinti were featured in a Star Trek animated series written by Larry Niven
Quite a few spin offs from the into series David! I didn’t see that one though. Was it a good adaptation?
@@GrammaticusBooksThe ST:TAS episode with the Kzinti was an adaptation of his short story _The Soft Weapon_ ( retitled to _The Slaver Weapon_ ). I'd personally rate it as mediocre at best, but then I had read the original first, and I feel that neither the Kzinti nor the Slaver backstory really belong in the Trekverse. Also, the Kzinti in the animation were pathetically scrawny, not huge and fearsome.
Great book with some nice hard SF concepts. The Puppeteers breeding for luck is as unique an idea as I've ever heard and makes them seem especially alien.
I'm not certain what defines a mega structure but I'm guessing Rendezvous with Rama doesn't qualify.
I read this in the 1970s and again last year. If it was written today Niven might make it a longer with more character focus because we are used to that now. But in the 70s SF readers were not reading 250,000 word novels. It's a sign of the times. Even book series were not prevalent in SF. I think this may be one of the first of the book series.
I agree Rama doesn't really qualify for a mega structure. The puppeteers also got caught trying to breed less aggressive Kzin!
@@GrammaticusBooksRama is essentially the same concept as an O'Neill cylinder, and several times larger. Perhaps a bit on the lower end of the SF megastructure continuum, but it definitely qualifies.
I didn't know Niven had coauthored a prequel series to the Ringworld until like 2014. I flipped out and ordered the whole series. Loved the prequels!
I just learned of the prequels myself!
Prequel?! What prequel?😮
My first Niven book was Ringworld Engineers and it was years before I got a copy of Ringworld to read. I since finished the series and a few Fleet of Worlds books as well.
It's a great series Jkocol! I'm glad you liked it!
Louis is not "Lewis" it's "Looey". Looey Wu and his motley crew, trippingly on the tongue.
I believe that’s his nickname Scott.
Hey thanks. I read this in about 1982 as a little kid and it has shaped my taste in literature for 40 years or whatever. I agree with your criticisms about the characters; Larry Niven is huge on world building, plot, adventure, stuff like that. He's not great on humanity or things like metaphor and symbolism. But that's okay -- It's fine to be good at one thing and bad at another, and for people who aren't into that sort of thing they don't have to read it.
Anyway, I've read it recently since then, and I found it really did not hold up for a well for exactly the reasons that you state, but then again it's a lot like a lot of very successful work these days; it reminded me a lot of one of the dune novels written by Brian Herbert and that other guy. The same strengths and weaknesses. Except of course they didn't invent the world, so that's kind of weak.
Anyway, appreciate the trip down memory lane. Thanks
Thanks Zafner. I think Niven teamed up Pournelle for just those reasons. To counter his weaknesses.
@@GrammaticusBooks I hadn't thought of that, but it's an excellent hypothesis.
I've read a couple of Niven and Pournelle books. I don't think of Jerry Pournelle as particularly subtle, character driven, or given to use of symbolism or metaphor in the sense of classic literature; actually for a long time my dad read his blog a lot, and he always seemed like kind of a right-wing nut job to me -- like my dad. It's been a long time though and I have no idea what he would have thought of our current situation.
I mean it's possible. At least Niven was trying to mitigate his own weaknesses. That's important
The Pak built Ringworld as a, "Safe", locale for the Breeder Stage Pak. The attempt failed due to a virus consuming all of the room temperature superconductors. Read Ringworld in '72 as a HS sophomore. Vastly superior to the HS curriculum, the scarlet letter. A classmate at LTU gave me Ringworld Engineer the day before my Cal IV final. Read the novel over the night and paid for it on the final.
I’d read Ari world over the Scarlet Letter any day and twice on Sunday!
I named my first hard drive "The Hindmost"
That's awesome Hillside!
Never read Ringworld, but the way you describe it's terrain and general setup and physics, it does sound a lot like Clarke's Rama ship. Am I imagining that correctly?
Possibly, I’ll have to dig Rama back out. He’s isn’t that an asteroid sized ship? Here Niven is writing on a celestial scale.
@@GrammaticusBooks Yep, Rama is a cylindrical vessel 50 Km long and 20 Km in diameter. One of Clarke's best books, IMO.
I enjoyed Ringworld as a teenager but couldn't finish rereading it as an adult. The relationship between Louis and Teela was just too annoying. But I remember really loving Nessus and Speaker to Animals, and you're right, Teela's "superpower" was deftly integrated. But of the Golden Age classics, I think Haldeman's Forever War holds up best, and I also love Pohl's Gateway series, especially the first novel Gateway. Some of Silverberg's work also holds up very well.
I hear you Doug. And I due for a reread of the Forever War.
Know World Books, Lois Wu were my favorite books.
They're great James! I need to delve further into that universe!
I still have that same ‘77 hardback edition.
A great copy! ... and a heck of story too!
It occurs to me to wonder why I’ve never seen fanfic set on Ringworld, despite how perfect it is for such treatment. Though I had the RPG when that happened.
There was an rpg? And I agree super fertile ground for adaptions!
@@GrammaticusBooks Chaosium, mid 80s. You were expected to build another expedition to Ringworld, probably with backers to please. Would have required a GM who was utterly knowledgeable of Known Space and extremely comfortable building new races, cultures and civilizations. Interestingly, it had a percentage skill system which went to a thousand. Above 98 you entered a sliding scale to enable levels of expertise which would make you a legendary figure of history, like Newton, Da Vinci or Pythagoras. All subject to decades of my memory fading, of course.
@@GrammaticusBooks There were also two video games - Ringworld: Revenge of the Patriarch, and Return to Ringworld. Both DOS adventure games released in 1992 and 1994, which use different characters but the same sort of team and refer to a lot of the rest of his Known Space setting.
Awesome book... One of the best SciFi writers there is... but he did say that Teela Brown was a mistake. He did have to write her story later to try to fix that.
Oh my God! It was made by the Pak! It's too late to run.
I'm on the third book right now...and Teela has been written out of the story. Or is she...?
@@GrammaticusBooks It's hard to recall through the fog of years, but as I recall, she ended up eating the Tree of Life and becoming a Pak.
Niven said she just caused horrible story problems. Besides, she won the Birth Right lottery, but so did we all. Probability of existence of any one of us is incredibly against the odds.
I didn't start on Known Space books until the 80s and 90s. Ringworld was a later read in the series for me. I read them in 'found in used book shop order' until the newer books came out.
Somehow I stopped reading after Ringworld's Children or the first of the Ringworld prequels. I'd love to know if it's worth going back and catching up.
I hear you Roland. I’m on the third book now. I think Niven benefited greatly from his team ups with Pournelle. But his books are still solid!
@@GrammaticusBooks I hope my comment didn't come across wrong. Niven is literally my favorite scifi author. Life just changed (kids, new job, etc) around that time, and I stopped having time to search bookstores shelves for the latest Niven book every few weeks! 😁
Obviously, the Rama ship was built on the Ringworld! (chuckle!)
Good one Bob!
Every true sci-fi fan just MUST read Ringworld and its sequels. No buts or ifs, just read them NOW!
It is a seminal work Bert!
Not really a big fan of the sequels. BUT, the "Know Space" novels and short stories are a must to really understanding the time and place of "Ringworld".
The RPG was fantastic. If you were looking for text-for-your-buck, nothing came close. The box had three book(let)s in it, but once opened and looked through, even in a cursory way, you couldn't close the lid of the box properly thereafter.
I only ever had two complaints:
- the beautiful, and beautifully contextual, artwork of Lisa Free was parsimoniously given (so little, so little); &
- the GM had to be all over the entire contents to provide an holistic and comprehensive gaming experience and (probably revealing the shortcomings of 21 year old me) you needed both of your dissimilar PhDs to do it justice.
... it's still pretty good though. 😊
I had no idea there was an RPG made of Ringworld Bell! I'll bet it's quite a collectors item!
(hahaha) you use the front cover of the rulebook as a graphic in the video. 😄
@@nbell63 Wait what??? I did??? Damn, I thought those were all vintage paperback covers!!!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Grammaticus,
Than the covers of your paperbacks.
[Shakespeare something: something]
😊
Love Larry Niven. I love Lucifer's Hammer
Lucifer’s Hammer and the Mote in Gods Eye were both great!
Dante had the first megastructure in science fiction.
Hah!
Nice video! I haven't read this for years, maybe its time for a re-read, i do like his work. Another big dumb object book from the 70s that seems heavily influenced by Ringworld is Orbitsville by Bob Shaw, only it's a dyson sphere not a ring. 👍🚀📚👀
That is one I've not heard of. I have a couple Shaw books but I'll have to keep an eye out for that one.
I have not read it, but I thought it was built by the Pak. I have read Protector, The Integral Trees, Footfall, and some of the Man-Kzin Wars.
In his later books he explains more of the back story...and I think you're correct. But in Ringworld we still don't have those answers.
Shamefully, I haven’t read this yet. It sounds fantastic.
It’s great for the wonder. Niven needed the help from Pournelle though for his dialogue and characters. But I still thoroughly enjoyed this novel!
I read this book, Ring World, when it first came out.
How did you like it Thomas?
@GrammaticusBooks Very much. I really liked Niven then. But I don't read SiFi much anymore.
If you want more in-depth of the characters I recommend reading his follow-up books. My favorite of the series is 'Ringworld's Children'.
I'm actually on The Ringworld Throne right now Alpine!
Ringworld is a lot of fun, but a signal characteristic of the series is that each sequel says that everything that raised the stakes in the previous novel was a lie. By book 3 I had just accepted that all the narration was unreliable. There's a lot of fun in the sequels, especially The Ringworld Engineers, but don't expect any sort of coherence
Putting blinders on… I just started the third book!
Ringworld. The first two books are fantastic, Ringworld Engineers tying in with another Niven theme common in his books . For me the later 3rd sequel just ran out of steam and found myself disinterested in the new characters. Kind of how I found the later Dune books.
Ugh, I’m reading the third one right now!
I never read the book, but I have the disc for the PC game right next to me. I played it, years ago and it was really cool. The game manual had all of the tech specs for the Ringworld itself. Its construction relies on an alien material, don't recall the name, that is massively stronger than our toughest alloys. I am pretty sure that the Ringworld is only 1,000 miles 'wide' and only 100 miles 'high'.
Maybe in the PC game. In the book it's actually 1 million miles wide!
@@GrammaticusBooks Okay, a million miles wide witth a one thousand mile edge to keep in the atmosphere? How many 'Earths did you say it equated to? Yeah, I guess that is 3,000 times the surface area of Earth. I still don't think the retaining wall needs to be 1,000 miles high, since our own atmosphere doesn't really go 100 miles up.
Trouble is, i don't think the atmosphere would work that way. Centrifugal force can simulate gravity but it isn't really a force, it's a trick of angular momentum. Without the actual force of gravity pulling the atmosphere down, the random walk of gasseous motion should drive the atmosphere away. Low level retension force fileds powered by solar radiation would be a simple way to solve it, but just wide open to the vacuum of space? I don't think so.
I'd love to know your thoughts on the rest of the series. I only made it up to Ringworld Throne🤷🏻♂️
I'm just now finishing up The Ringworld Throne Rygy. I'll definitely do a video on it when I'm finished.
Ringworld is a variation of a Dyson sphere (a slice from the sphere) which Dyson wrote about in the 60s.
You are correct but that was a science paper and not a novel.
Yes, I should have made that clear. Niven took the concept and turned it into his own. Given how massive the Ringwold is imagine how much interior surface a Dyson Sphere would have! @@GrammaticusBooks
@@bwise7739 But the issue of no gravity would be a problem. At least the Ringworld could be given spin.
@@kennoldfield5890 you can spin a Dyson. The difference is that there is a gravity gradient depending how far you are from the spin axis.
Look up "Dyson sphere" in Wikipedia:
> Dyson did not detail how such a system could be constructed, simply referring to it in the paper as a 'shell' or 'biosphere'. He later clarified that he did not have in mind a solid structure, saying "A solid shell or ring surrounding a star is mechanically impossible. The form of 'biosphere' which I envisaged consists of a loose collection or swarm of objects traveling on independent orbits around the star".
I read it so many decades ago that I don't remember much about the plot, only that I enjoyed it, maybe because of the outlandish concept. Not sure if it would actually work though... The whole idea of generating gravity by rotation in space habitats has been questioned a lot in recent years, mostly because it would induce motion sickness in the inhabitants/occupants. Anyway, a totally far-out idea back in the 70's!
I beg to differ on your comment about Elysium. Yes, it's a pretty mediocre movie, but the space city shown there was mostly inspired by Gerard K O'Neill's 1976 book The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space, which discusses the subject of space habitats at length, with several proposed designs, all very innovative at the time.
No arguments on the effects and set on Elysian. They were well done. Perhaps someday we’ll get to find out first hand if centrifugal force gravity works!
@@GrammaticusBooks Oh, the FX were great! Too bad the story was meh...
Ringworld was my first SciFi novel read back in 1972, and it's influenced my thinking greatly for the better. However, that first paperback cover was drawn by an idiot who clearly didn't understand that the Ringworld was a segment of an inside-out planet system, not a cartoonish 2D viewed sideways artifact. The second cover complete with the shadow squares is superior.
I'm guessing that first artist never read the book! Good comments Techno!
@@GrammaticusBooks No doubt! I'd always thought of Ringworld as a one shot "happy ever after" type of story, though the sequels went further and beyond. Vampires and Ghouls started going into that SciFi/Fantasy realm that Piers Anthony does very well.
Speaking of which, I've thought those two authors tend to emphasize the overarching concepts and plots over any individual characters - forgiven in my books.
Love the whole "Known Space" serves. Please increase the sound level about 20-40%,if you would. I found it a little hard to hear.
If you're on a phone it could be your phone settings. The sound seems to be fine over a laptop...but I probably need a dedicated microphone!
@GrammaticusBooks It was on my laptop. Sound at 100. Not a big problem but made it difficult to understand some words. Not like I was worried about spoilers.
I liked "Elysium". Huh.
There have been several editions of "Ringworld". Mathematicians, physicists, engineers all seem to love the book and work out the science; where there's a problem they write Niven and he tries to include their ideas in the next edition!
It was a great idea Vera!
Probably the first sci-fi book I read
Stainless Steel Rat was the next
Manalone came next, that was interesting. Had me going all along.
Those are both great series of books!
The reader should read all of Niven's TALES OF KNOWN SPACE stories before reading RINGWORLD. There's background material in those short stories. At the time, PROTECTOR was considered RINGWORLD 0. I don't remember if he'd changed that when he wrote the FLEET OF WORLDS prequel series.
That would be a lot of reading before getting to Ringworld!
Yes, but most of the background material is in the short stories. Niven's short fiction is much better than his novels.@@GrammaticusBooks
@@nickvarga918 I love short stories. I'll have to try and obtain some of Niven's! Thanks for pointing me in this direction!
Make sure you read PROTECTOR.
@@GrammaticusBooks
When will we get a good Ringworld movie or mini-series? Deni Villeneuve would probably do it justice.
I would buy a ticket!