How do YOU hear “Move on Up” by Curtis Mayfield?!
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Call me crazy, but where is beat 1? This week I dive deep into the Curtis Mayfield song "Move on Up", other covers, samples, and covers influenced by the samples and attempt to figure out why people hear this song differently.
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TOPICS COVERED
Curtis Mayfield
Devon Russell
Lettuce
Just Blaze
Kanye
Touch the Sky
Move on Up
Downbeat
Beat 1
Groove
Drums
Cover song
sample
Investigation
#curtismayfield #musichistory
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
Was hoping for an animated cymbal falling on your head!
nah man you already come out on top in this video 😂😂
Awesome breakdown of this song! As a DJ this dilemma is a common thing, especially with classics like this. One song that always grows me up is "He's The Greatest Dancer" by Sister Sledge and then add Will Smith's "Gettin' Jiggy" adding insult to injury. Took me such a long time to figure how I would mix in these songs.
Had this argument a few years ago, it ended with an email to the sax player who was on the Curtis session who said "Apparently the string arranger had misunderstood the tune when he heard it and came in with the arrangement on beat 1. The band had always played it on beat 3, as in the live gigs. Despite the drummer's best efforts to play the arrangement, as soon as the band came in everyone just went back to feeling it on beat three. So...everyone's right" (although team 3 a little more right)
This is the best discovery of the entire video in my opinion!! Thanks for leaving this comment. I was about to leave an entire breakdown of why it’s on 1 but now it all makes sense. As a drummer, I know what it’s like to be battling what’s supposed to be right versus what actually feels right. It’s crazy that they didn’t re-record it and it because a classic!😂👏🏾👏🏾
This is amazing context
YOOOOO!!! 🤣🤣🤣👍🏽 So compositional misunderstandings contributed to making this song not only awesome but hella fun to analyze for all the girls and boys! Funk, jazz, classical, drums, horns, comedians, etc. 🥳🎈🎊🥰🎉🍾🥂
Wow thank you!!!
Hell Yeah. Gracias
the reggae version is SO CRAZY. it completely re-contextualized the song for me. my mom listened to this song every saturday to wake us up. I grew up thinking it was beat one.
Every time I have ever played this song it’s lifted my spirits. Even if I was in a great mood it just made me feel like a million bucks
“We’re A Winner” (which Curtis Mayfield interpolates in “Move on Up”) is my all time favorite, desert island, audio anti-depressant 😁
@@sbtokarz it’s both Curtis Mayfield tho ?? What do u mean ?
You know its a genius groove when every single possible interpretation of the beat sounds equally good, and multiple very experienced musicians couldn’t agree on which one is most accurate
yes! i could always hear both -the rhythm makes the whole song feel alive and breath
Bro thats so wild! Just Blaze/Kanye literally changed a generation's perception of the entire song. I heard the Kanye version first when I was younger, so the horn part has always felt naturally on the 1.
Same, although now I hear it on 3 I can't unhear it, same as a commenter below said happened for the original session band
Funnily enough, Kanye seems to be rapping to it as if it's on 3.
I never considered that it could be heard on 1. Always heard it on 3. If you listen to the backbeat/snare, phrasing and groove of this song, 3 just works. But I really enjoyed this video.
Similar intros with odd-sounding times: Chaka Kahn’s ain’t nobody
Also “Tell Me Something Good” 🔥
true for aint nobody. one could argue, though, that it starts on 1 but the 1 and 2 are inaudible. :DD
Then you must be rhytmically challenged 😂😂
Yeah agreed, I've always heard it as beat 3.
I've never really sat down and thought about it, but I've always heard alternating bars of 6/4 and 2/4, with the A and F# as the 2/4 bars.
I hear Move On Up by Curtis Mayfield like this...
The drums start on 1-2-
The horns come in on 3
The first cymbal crash is a red herring because all the fills leading into the horn break are on the 1
The lyrics fall like this (pushed)
"Child" on 1
"Cry" on 1
Etc
If you listen to it like this it totally works.
BTW loved this vid. Too funny how much thought can go into a song. The fact that it's an awesome song is why it demands so much consideration. If it was a crappy song no one would even care where the 1 is
Yes, it's bonkers to think there's any other way to hear the 1 here.
@@JoeOspallaDrums That's what I thought too. The rhyhtm section decides what's the 1 and so forth, not the horns.
yes, the snare intro is 1-2
@@gilmiles5569 yes. It doesn't seem to be at all ambiguous
ive never heard it any other way than this lol but i do play drums
This video is a banger. Move On Up is a musical pillar of my own mental health maintenance.
I love delaying the crash for a beat or two. It makes even a simple fill stand out. Having said that, it's not changing the downbeat, just spicing the groove
I've always heard "Touch the Sky" as if it started on the one, obviously. But for Move on Up, it's always sounded like it started on the three.
Curtis changed the game in Soul and Funk. 1970s eponymous album was a forerunner in socio-conscious soul!
Try counting it in half tempo (actually, that's what the reggae version is also doing). This gives you the "hypermeter", and to me this clearly suggests it starting on 3. Halving the tempo always helps with figuring out faster songs, because it makes the beat feel more "grounded", less busy. Much easier to hear the main beats that way and also keep track of the downbeats.
The harmonic rhythm also clearly suggests it starting on beat 3. It's basically a two-chord song: Em and Bm. You spend two bars on each chord, and the chord changes land on the downbeat. But on the beat 3 of the previous measure, there is this passing chord that leads to the "main chord". F#m leads to Em, A leads to Bm. Em and Bm are clearly the "important" chords here, and F#m and A are basically passing chords or "approach chords" (that approach the main chords a step above/below).
But yes, the point raised in the end is probably important here. The Kanye West version clearly starts on the downbeat. And if that's the version one is most familiar with, then that will affect the way they hear it.
Agreed, I can’t help but hear the main chord change on the downbeat. If I consciously count, the first bar seems unambiguously horns/crash on 1, but then the guitar mysteriously compels me to give the next bar 6 beats, and for the rest of the song it’s unambiguously “horns on 3”. If I count “horns on 1” throughout the intro it takes some mental effort and then just end up giving “hush now” an extra 5-6 because I’m compelled to hear “child” on 1 and just revert.
Such a joy to watch and learn so much production from your videos!
🙏🙏
I once arranged this tune for a brass band I was in at the time. When I pulled up finale i didn’t get a single note on the page for about an hour because I was trying to decide where to put the 1. I could only settle it by listening through to the start of the actual verse at which point I joined team beat 3. Incredible tune and amazing how the ambiguity doesn’t strike you until you try to actually dissect the music
And all this time, I thought I was listening to music.
I wasn't! 😂
I've learned so much more.. Appreciate ya'!✊🏾
Unrelated, but have you ever noticed how EWF's "September" speeds up through the song? The tempo picks up a BPM when the drums kick in [from 123 beats per minute to 124 bpm]. Interesting thing is that, by the end of the song the tempo has shifted up several more notches to around 129 bpm. Don't believe me? Start tapping your foot at around 2:30, then jump back to the beginning. Amazing, right? I think this contributes in a big way to what a powerful mood-lifting device the song is.
man, this got me all fu**ed up. This isn't the first time i've been confused on where beat 1 is. The covers I can understand and get down with on the "3 being the 1", but the Curtis Mayfield version I just can't undo how i've always heard it. GREAT TOPIC. THANK YOU, your videos are very very interesting! Keep up the great work brother!
One of the greatest songs ever!
Interesting video. If you wanted some more context, the drummer of Lettuce is Adam Deitch. Deitch is an amazing musician, drummer and producer and before forming Lettuce with fellow musicians, he was a touring drummer for many hip-hop acts and if I'm not mistaken Kanye was one of them for a while, specifically around that time. Deitch went on to tour with acts like Pretty Lights and has another side project with friend Borahm Lee called Break Science. He would probably respond if you were to ever reach out. Adam is awesome guy and one of the coolest performers I've had the pleasure of watching.
My favorite version of 'Move on Up' is Delvon Lamarr Organ Trio's live version, it's an instrumental yet sooo good
great post, thanks for pointing me in that direction
Bro that version Is probably the best cover ever
@@euronymous6450 yeah I gotta listen all over again now that you posted lol
I first discovered Delvon Lamarr's version before this one actually. That cover was bangin'.
It's sooo good
I always counted this on the "3-4-1-2". I always love breakdowns like this, it really changes how songs sound and makes it feel like a new listening experience even after years of knowing it 😊
Got super stoked to see this pop up in my feed. Lot of late night shifts I remember this groove coming on
I'm always expecting someone to walk into your end-of-video freeze like it was a Police Squad! episode.
I couldn’t love this more!!!!! This is my introduction to your channel (sorry I got here so late) can’t wait to see more. Cheers
One of my favorite songs - i never heard a single cover of it tho. So now ive got a project for the day.
I always heard it as the drummer's count off as 1-2, then the horns come in and start the song. So for me, it 1-2 then 1-2-3-4 for the majority of the song; then at the breakdown around 4:50 or so, the drummer counts off 1-2 again, for the remaining instrumental of the song.
Seems like Curtis kept it on the up, as to push the lyrics across; this is still a highly motivation song 53 years later, and I love it. It gets me through my dark days.
Coming into work and having a video from this channel is the best feeling.
Analysis, production, presentation - just love your videos my man!
This is a great video. Gets you thinking. I did agree with you when asked if the crash came in on the 3 and I agreed. Of course as we listen, we're all messed up. Awesome vid!! Keep on
Man, I love your videos. You make youtube a better place. Love, in the beat 1 camp because changes.
🙏🙏
man I didn't expect this one to go so deep, love your breakdown here.
I love this song, so uplifting and energizing. First time I ever heard it was on "The Wire." It sent me down the rabbit hole of '70s soul and funk -- I'm so thankful to this day.
I think the wire was where I first heard it too. It was clever how the song’s theme fit both Cutty and Carcetti. And whoa, I never noticed the similar names until typing that!
This show is the best! You always have me arguing with the screen…(even tho you know more than me)…love the research and editing!
No matter how many versions or times I hear this song, I ALWAYS hear it starting on the 3. Even the Kanye/Just Blaze Touch the Sky
“Guess who’s on Third ? “😂😂😂 that’s the hint right there
By far, best music analyses channel on the internet.
Best music Channel on yt rn
🔥🔥🙏
Team 3 here! It takes a lot of effort for me to hear this throughout the song on beat 1. And: regarding the harmony rhythm, the chord of the dotted quarter note builds up tension where as the chord of the eighth note + half note brings release. To me, the tension on the downbeat sounds just wrong, but it fits perfect when placed on the 3 and the release then comes on the anticipated 1.
Yes, to me it's the harmonic rhythm that makes it obvious. There are clearly two main chords here, and the other two chords simply approach these two main chords. Also, you spend much longer on the two main chords (Em and Bm), which puts more emphasis on them. It just makes sense that these main chords land on the downbeat, whereas the "approach chords" are used as a kind of a pickup that leads to the downbeat.
I've always heard it on 3. I'm amazed, today is the first time I've heard anyone claiming to hear it on 1.
The song "Upside Down" by Diana Ross is a similar enigma in terms of where the downbeat lands. It seems like the correct place for beat 1 is on the word "down" (as in downbeat haha), but it may seem more natural for the ear to hear beat 1 on the word "up(side)". For that matter, "Cold Rock A Party" by MC Lyte, which sampled Upside Down, sounds just as vague, even though it seems to favor beat 1 on "down". As for "Move on Up", my initial gut told me that beat 1 lands on the kick/crash/high horns, but when I think about it more, it seems that it's more correct to treat it as beat 3 when taking the structure of the lyrical melody into context.
Nice, I just made a lead sheet for Upside Down with 2/4 bars going into and out of the chorus. I guess I need to try to hear it the other way (in which case there wouldn't be any 2/4 bars)
I remember learning this years ago and it did my head in. Still does. My natural instinct would be the hits are a "3,4" pickup, but the drums phrase basically the entire song as starting on 3. And save for that beginning, the entire song taken as a whole is pretty heavily pushing a horn start on 3. I know all that and I still have to count the dang thing.
to me, even the original sounds like the horns start on one. if you count it that way, all of curtis’s phrases come in on the one, and even his singing “move on up” which brings in the chorus, is on one. kind of feeling the crash on three as this hitting-the-ground-running vibe with a lot of momentum
That's how I interpret it, also
Yes, exactly
agreed
But also, if the horns start on 3, then all of the phrases land on the downbeat. And this is also how I feel it when I listen to the vocals.
I love your vids dude this is the content I need
Great video as always. Justin said in serato interview a few years back, they had stretch the horn sample in the beat because is wasn't on the down beat.
Omg I love your videos. i'm from New Zealand, and I was wondering if you were playing with NAS on Tuesday the 9th of May
Firepower by David Sylvian and Robert Fripp has a similar thing going on. Years after I started listening to it, I found that I was counting it wrong and my perception of it changed dramatically in an instant
Good point, I still can't quite wrap my head around that tune haha
Always a good day to see a new upload from your channel. I hope to see Mayfield’s Right on for the darkness at some point in one of the vids.
Not that complicated. He did what felt right. Big dork energy.
Big fan. Love the videos. Lol.
Your group conversation Sounds so wholesome =D
Glad you were able to prove that horn players were right all along, thanks Brandon.
That was really impressive - Now I need you to do Ludacris/Timbaland's Roll Out lmao
OMG that was my first thought!
…don’t do that…Now I can’t unhear “Roll
Out” on the 1 instead of it being a pick up into 1😩😂
I'm almost 58 years old, so I've always heard the horns come in on 3. I always felt something was unusual about the "Touch The Sky" sample but couldn't put my finger on it until watching this video!
Before I watched this video I always thought the horns started on 1, and that’s how every band I’ve ever played in has counted it. But by the end I can’t help but hear it on 3. What the fuck dude, I feel violated...subscribed!
If you listen to the extended album version, there's a drum break that very clearly lines up with the "1-2-3-4" feel once the other instruments come in. And at around 2:35, he does play the crash cymbal on the first note of the horn riff. But the vocal melody and harmonic instruments seem to be emphasizing the "3-4-1-2", and after a while the drummer seems to just go along with the flow, not really indicating the 1 either way.
So the comment saying that the arranger misunderstood the song and the band was trying to play that arrangement but kept drifting back to the way they played it before makes total sense!
I started as a trumpeteer then moved to drums and piano. I hear the ambiguity for sure. I see all your points but the Trumpets come in on 3 and the rhythm comes on 1, reminds me how much of a maestro Curtis is, showing us we just gotta move on up.... past the downbeat.
Man, you did a great analysis of that song! 💪
one of my favorite records. I first heard the Kanye version, just like most of us did. Years later, I started to learn to play funk guitar. The original version just hit me one day. The chords are simple but the rhythm is what makes the song so groovy.
Beat One camp here... As a bassist myself I always felt it starts on one. When I transcribed it a few years back, I felt the same ambiguity. I took the drum breakdown section as an indicator. If you skip into that section, it's 100% clear where the drummer is feeling the downbeat. When the bass re-enters the scene, it definitely falls on the one... But I to think that the rhythm section and the horns have different starting points.Thanks for this great video!
Thanks for that devon russel record. That shit is jammin. Subbed
please never stop 🙏🙏
"you probably shouldn't base your life off of what kanye does" is good ass advice lmao
So on the original tune, I've always heard the horns coming in on 3 in the beginning (I'm a guitarist, for whatever bias that's worth). BUT, when the drum break comes in the middle, it kind of sounds like the drummer is in the "Beat 1" camp before the rest of the band comes back in. And I definitely hear it on 1 in some of the other versions you've played.
Stuff like this is why I love the youtube algorithm sometimes, because this is a very interesting conversation *specifically* for guys like me. Haha. Great video!
U know u music nerd/lover when u argue about timing instead of. Listening to the song like normal 😊😊 love the videos
I love the Curtis Mayfield version, but I always wondered why the Lettuce version is one of the few covers where I like many aspects of its groove over the original, and I think the familiarity of the downbeat explains it perfectly!
because Lettuce are groove kings.
The version from 1979, by Destination, always plays in my head as I walk out my front door every morning. And when I come home at night, "Grazing In The Grass", by Friends Of Distinction, plays in my backbone. No, I'm not Superfly, I just feels like it.
Love the set up to the "not tight" punchline 😂
As someone who is very cognizant of time and music, the song always sounded like everyone was doing their own thing and on their own time. But it’s a groove. That’s the point. Everyone is in the groove together.
If you listen to the extended version you can hear Curtis’ drummer build… it sounds like he counts himself in in two counts but comes in on 1
8 measures later congas starts on 1, 8 more measures later guitar starts on 1
Or 16 measures later in cut time
Killer Video man! Never will think of this song the same way lol
Finally putting my music theory classes to use!
I have only ever heard original version, but I always heard it start on one. I had no idea horns started counting on 3 that’s psychotic but I guess it makes sense after watching this!
Sometimes the downbeat is the friends we made along the way
Can you do a video on D’angelos “The Root.” Listen for the count-off to the main guitar riff. I hear the G as the beginning of the chord progression but his count off makes it seem like the Emin starts the phrase… also a great video to talk about Charlie Hunter’s wizardry and D’Angelo doesn’t get enough credit for his amazing lyrics
This video makes me so happy. I always heard Mayfield on the 1, but that drum fill and crash hit on (what I thought was) the 3 really confused me.
I'd never heard Kanye but was solidly in the "1" camp until you explained it further... darn it!!! Fascinating video.
Great watch. Love all your vids.
Never thought bout this before interesting! ...an this is 1 best songs ever
I really love your channel
That text at the end got me 💀😂
Yoooo great video man. My friends and I have the same argument about how to count "Addition" by Kanye West on the Late Registration album.
Appreciate this video because it reminds me of two tracks which I can hear differently depending on where I start listening: Percee P - Put It On The Line and Boogie Down Productions - Breath Control II
i had never thought there was any doubt about it, I always heard it as beat 3. this video made me confused (in a good way?) always good to rethink and re-evaluate things you think you know
Love this video 😺🤘🏽🤘🏽🤘🏽
The live Curtis record is my vote for the greatest live album of all time
i listened to this vinyl from my collection at work on my portable, yea thats right lol, and was really blown away at how talented curt is. im 43 so he was hot when i wasnt alive. and i only knew about his main hits. his random songs were deeeeep
Another cool video man keep it up!!!
just shows you how important sampling is in music overall
When I was a child I had a lot of trouble understanding how people decide where the 1 is, and I couldn't ever get anyone to explain it to me sensibly. I didn't disagree with where people decided, but I wanted some sort of rational explanation. So I paid a lot of attention: I still haven't found a clear explanation, but I think that for people in the "western" music tradition, the 1 of the count isn't decided from the rhythm, or from where the song starts, but comes from relationships of the melodic and chordal changes and how they relate to the tonic. The way that the rhythm should feel, and how the song can start, come from anticipating those melodic changes that happen later in the song: i.e. the place in the the rhythm where "1" is comes from an amalgamation of all the "good" sounding melodic and chordal changes throughout the length of the song. For the original Curtis Mayfield version, I think that the very first "1" count is the very first drum hit. By the second measure, and for almost or all the measures after that, every time the chord pattern comes to either of the two most important chords of the song, and most of the time that the melody comes back to the tonic, or an emphasized 4th or 5th, happens on a "1" count if you count it this way.
Super happy you made this one. I have heard it as 1 forever and I even thought it was because of the Kanye song influencing me…. You didn’t really do it in the video, but you mentioned trying to count all the way through the song.
If the horns start on 1 at the beginning, you end up having to insert bars of 2 (or 6) to hit the chorus properly…. If the horns at the top are on three… it’s just smooth 4/4 all the way through.
So it’s 3, but I still hear 1 😂
I don't know where the "downbeat" is but I do know when to bend my knees and dance to the beat.
Yo, Great video, and i'm glad it's not just me who has problems like this. I'm a dancer and when I want to come up with a routine I need to know the music deep inside. This reminds me of another unbelievable but confusing song.... U Don't Have to Call by Usher. It has the same problem, at least for me, where the main piano chord comes in I think on 3, but others hear it as 1. But the beat at the beginning doesn't fit.
I've been needing an answer to this question for 20 years.... Maybe you can do a part 2 involving that song?
What’s funny is he almost had me when he said the crash on the hook doesn’t happen until beat 3 which means the horns are playing a pick up into 1. But then when he pointed out the 2 snare hits at the beginning of the song saying that drummer was counting them in, giving them 1,2. Problem is, the drummer wouldn’t start off the song crashing on 3. His snare hits at the top of the song are counting 3,4 because he crashed on the horns first note signaling the 1.
I just read a comment from @Christofer_Robin that said he emailed the Sax player from Curtis Mayfield’s band and he said the string arranger misinterpreted the tune and had it written in the 1 but the band had always done the song starting on 3. They tried to record the tune on the 1 but everyone went back to feeling it on 3. As a drummer, I can definitely hear the beat battle happening so I guess we’re all kind of right😆. The drummer from the recording only crashes on the 1 at the very top of the song and then again at the end.
Here from the William D. video. You got me! Lol
also came here from that
Just came with my favorite song off my favorite album!
One of my favorite songs. Even played it in a band fifty years ago. But I'm confused as hell now!😆
Idk what you're talking about or how music really works but this video was very interesting!😅❤
Debating at this level is a huge nothing-burger of nerdiness. Love it
With no exaggeration one of the greatest songs ever made, possibly in the top ten of all time.
Amazing that you all heard the 1 as the 3 and vice verse, and that you’re saying horn players would hear it sterling on 3.
I’d say it clearly starts on 3, despite the slightly odd drum fill t the beginning of the version you played at the start, though I think that clip does make it clear that that band hears it starting on 1, which I find weird, because it so obviously starts on 3!