Bait Hive, the easiest way to catch a swarm - Bee Vlog #90 - Apr 25, 2013
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2013
- It's a waiting game, and you never know what kind of luck you'll have with it, but bait hives are really the easiest way to get a swarm. You set it up, walk away, and hope the bees move in. And if they do the only work that's left is to move them to a hive.
I hung this up last year, but I think I did it too late. This past week there have been a lot of swarms in the area, and my bait hive was getting a lot of attention for the past few days. Some very strange behavior. Fighting and battles at the entrance. In hind sight, I think a group of bees were staking a claim to the hive and keeping other "intruders" from getting in. It was pretty interesting to watch.
I'm a little disappointed that I was at work and didn't get to see the swarm moving in. But the satisfaction of such an easy catch makes me quickly get over it.
To keep up with my apiary and track the hives, visit My Apiary page at:
thebeevlog.com/p/apiary.html
It's very interesting to see. I have learned that when bees swarm, the swarm and queen will send out over 200 scouts, and when one scout finds a place large enough, and smells right, she will return and bring 20 or 30 sisters back with her. Then is becomes a joint decision whether or not it is suitable. If yes, they all fly back to inform the swarm. (propolis, 2 drops of lemongrass oil, and some old comb help make this successful.)
I just picked up a book called "Honeybee Democracy" which talks about how bees find a new home and the decision making processes within the hive. But I've only browsed through it and read several excerpts. But what little I have read there is some grouping up where the scouts will return and recruit others to visit the potential homes and "campaign" for it.
First time on your channel, great stuff and thanks for the upload.
+wincharter1 Welcome! :)
I've been using very similar lure boxes to attract swarms for a few years now. The scout activity is very fascinating. I too have seen them guard their claim. I also have peeked into boxes at night to find a few bees "camping out". Also, if you look close at scouts, they will use their abdomen, smacking it on the entrance area like a beaver tail to add their scent to it.
Very cool info. I've seen that abdomen smacking as you described but had no idea why they did it. Thanks!
Really cool... Thank you for posting!
You should have thrown up a second trap and caught both swarms coming your way
Really good production quality, excellent. I will definitely be subscribing
I got alot of hives now and catching Swarms are still Awesome as Ever!!
thanks. I'm thinking about bee keeping. so I'm going to listen to every thing about bees. thanks again
Cool video. I started last year, with free bees, from a swarm trap. I got some pix, of them doing the same thing, and figured about the same. Two different groups, had discovered a new home, and one of them, was determined to "close the deal".
I have my trap, back out. I think I'm going to build a few more. I'd like to have a few more colonies, and see how that goes. I missed out on a swarm, the other day. Found out to late, and they were gone.
I had the same problem a few days ago. I noticed some bees pushing others out. One fell to the ground in the grass. The only thing I can think of is that they were from two different swarms. There are less bees there now but the ones that stayed are peaceable and docile.
Great catch. I'm still waiting for my first "capture" of a swarm. I just have one bait hive out. I'm using a 5 frame nuc with lemon scent. Bees fly in and out, but no new residents yet. Thank you, entertaining.
5 years later, you're a completely new man. I'm like you 6 years ago, still learning.
Great book and well worth the read
Maybe it is possible that the bees are not defending against other swarms, but rather play fighting to see if a prospective hive is defendable.
That's fun to think about. Like they're running simulations. I like it!
Now that is cool!!!!! Didn't even have to leave the property to get a swarm nice.
Glen
Yes, I do believe bees will stay and protect the new home.
I used a couple drops of lemon grass oil under the lid and a frame of old comb. But the hive was getting attention before I added the comb. (Too much lemon grass oil can drive them away, so go light with it.)
Have you looked into the Backwards Beekeepers located in LA? They catch swarms and seem to be doing just fine even with some African genetics. They have to be a little more diligent with their management, but they're having a lot of success.
Great video
Good video mate
I was listening to the permies podcast with Jacqueline freeman and she said bait hives are successful almost at 50% rate. That's pretty good I thought. I wanted to do a couple hives with packages but I'd like to be treatment free. I think if I put up 10-12 bait hives in different locations I might get at least two swarms. I have friends that If I get too many they would take. And I would scramble to make another hive or two if needed. Very cool video, thanks. Subscribed!
+Rich Fleeson Jacqueline is a friend of mine! I haven't had 50% success rate yet, but I always get at least 1 swarm each year in my bait hives. And these swarms always seem to do better than the ones I have to go chase down. It sounds like you've got a good plan.
+TheBeeVlog that's cool! I really like her thoughts and approach towards the bees and beekeeping. For me it's not about the honey. It's about helping the bees and them helping me with the garden and fruit trees(to be). Be good to the bees and they'll be good to us. She convinced me that I'm doing warre hives right out of the gate.
Rich Fleeson couldn't that statistic simply mean there are two options that could be the possible outcome? With each trap, you will have two options, yes or no. So 50% chance of being successful? Am I needing out?
I think it's a East Coast v. West Coast bee rumble.
That is a queen. And their communicating with her. To send hers message that it is safe inside. I guess.
I notice same behavior 2 hours before a swarm moved into my trap...it was 4 or 5 bees doing same thing to one of other bees, were not killing it, just chasing and grabbing like your video... strange
wow! i cant believe you have that in your yard so close to your house. so did you make that box? and if so what are the measurements?
+cutflower It's roughly the size of 2 5-frame boxes stacked 2 high. So 9-1/4" x 19-7/8" x 13.25". I have a new design shown in this video that is just 2 nucs stacked up: ruclips.net/video/vTOvmTnTsZw/видео.html
Thanks for the video. Keen observation and good mix of video and still photography.
I agree with your conclusion about cause of the fighting bees.
A few years ago I set out feed stations for my bees and for several days the feeders were used calmly and peacefully. Then one day I noticed some bees were fighting, a little more violently than the ones you showed. I had the thought that there were some "new" bees coming to the feeders and that I should go around a fence line on the border of the property and look up in trees to see if I could find a bee tree. Within about 45 minutes I did find a hive up about 15 or so feet from the ground.
You might also have more hives close to the lure box than from just the hive that supplied the swarm you showed that came to your lure box.
***** Thanks. You're probably right. This year there seemed to be less interest in my swarm traps, even though there were plenty of swarms.
The first time I put out swarm traps I put in a *LOT* of LGO. Someone told me it was too much and acted as a repellent. I started using only a drop and started catching swarms in my traps.
I have a bad queen and I just dropped her into a bottle of alcohol. I'll use the liquid from her next Spring in addition to LGO.
I hope you get more swarms next season.
Twice this season I caught 2 swarms in the same location. I'll be sure to have lures in those locations this coming Spring.
+TheBeeVlog is good
When a swarm that is moving in to a new home you'll see a few bees fanning their wings near the entrance. Doing this spreads the "home pheromone" out for other bees to hone in on when they get close from the wiggle dance coordinates they get at the swarm cluster. If you are close enough you'll notice it smells very similar to lemon grass oil. I suspect that "biting" at the abdomen action you are seeing is the bees trying to find out what bee is releasing the "home pheromone" when it's really the lemon grass oil they are picking up on. Of course this is only my theory.
Amalgamous Proxy Hmmm...Interesting idea.
Don't know what did you find after many years, but I think that's the best conclusion here. Today at my house a colony moved over from my roof into an empty hive baited up with some old comb and lemongrass oil. The behaviour at the new entrance was the same. So I have to say they distributed the pheromones. Didn't see if the queen moved over but by the end of the day there was no activity at the old entrance what is 4 feet away. I'm soo happy because they had been in the roof for 4 weeks and I placed the new box there just 4 days ago.
I suspect that there are scouts from multiple hives competing for this new location. I would set out more traps here.
Driving the one bee off claimed territory, hive mate acting strange such as being a laying worker, sick, or pissed them off, several reasons.
Awesome video!
Hey there Pablo! Nice to see you on the RUclipss. :)
sounds like a few chooks laid eggs too haha
Hey bro, can you show that swarm box with the side removed? I'd really like to build one.
they nest in anything,just get the oil and wait
I agree, I think they called dibs too.
i built a homemade birdhouse,and cought a swarm inside,there building ther hive ther.i plan on transfer them to a bee keeping box
May have been a scout from a different colony trying to check out the trap
Great video how far away from established hives do you have to be to catch a swarm?
There's no rule on that, as the bees are going to do whatever they want and don't often follow rules. It would make sense that farther is better as swarms wouldn't want to establish a new home close to another and compete for resources. But in reality, and as I've seen in practice, bees do a lot of things that don't make sense to us. As long as you try to learn to think like a swarm and put a trap where you think a swarm might find it most attractive, then that should be good enough.
Good conclusion
Great video! Do you mind some questions? 1) Approximately what time of day did the swarm move in? 2) During the move-in, it looks like there's smoke in the air; or is the camera behind a veil? 3) How long after move-in did you let them settle before transferring them to a normal hive box? 4) Did they stay in the hive box? Thanks!
+IAmTheWaterbug Thanks! Questions are always welcome. :) It was around 1:00pm, I think. (It's been a while.) My daughter was home when it happened and I had the good video camera with me at work. She used her iPod to catch it in action (she was also terrified and had to work up the courage to get closer). The "smoke" is just due to a low resolution camera. I let them settle in for a week before moving. I wanted to make sure they were really settled. Yes, they did stay in the hive box. In fact, that hive is still alive and doing well 3 years later.
Great idea .Could you have glass on the front to see in ?
bull frogger Sure. Glass or even plastic would increase the cost and complexity of building the bait hive, but it's not a bad idea. It would be fun for observation. Some kind of removable cover would need to be used to keep it dark inside (bees prefer the dark), but can be opened for viewing.
Your conclusion of "Dibbs" seems logical to me. Are you aware if scout bees go in groups? So a few can stay on their newly claimed territory while the others go back to report. Either way, Great videos. Keep em coming.
What did you put into the box? Any lure or bait? Your lucky you can catch them! If I were to in California, I would end up with some African off-breeds that might give me more trouble then normal bees ;~)
I think two different swarms were paying attention to it. Competing for the space.
I think your correct and maybe needed 2 boxes at your location👌
I think you're correct on the wrestling activity. I was thinking when you were talking about it that they were probably from a different hive. I've thought about doing a similar method with hive traps. Im in the midst of building 10. Perhaps I'll build 5 deeps and 5 double mediums like this and see how they compare. Good video!
Last year, after I shot this video, I attended a treatment-free beekeeping conference (BeeVlog #113) where I had the opportunity to meet and briefly chat with Tom Seeley, author of Honeybee Democracy. I told him about my observations in this video and watching the bees fight at the entrance like that. He confirmed that when the scout bees locate a new home they'll guard it to prevent other scouts from inspecting it.
By the way, I highly recommend his book. From reading it I learned that entrance size is the greatest factor in attracting swarms to the box. No matter how perfect the volume is or the placement of the trap, if the entrance isn't attractive the scouts will ignore it.
TheBeeVlog I'll have to check out the book thanks for mentioning it! So since I'm in the midst of building these traps, what does he recommend for the entrance size? Maybe I missed it in the video.
He recommends an entrance area no bigger than 15cm^2. In English units that would be either a square hole roughly 1.5"x1.5" or a round hole with diameter about 1.75". I built this bait box before I read his book. The first hole I made was about 2.5" diameter and it didn't get any attention the first year. I thought maybe the hole was too big (still hadn't read the book yet) so I reduced the entrance by tacking on a scrap piece of wood and used a smaller hole saw I had sitting in my toolbox. After reading his book I went and measured the hole and this one measures 1.25" diameter.
Hi! My uncle has a large garden and wants to set up a beehive. Do you have any advice on where to start and how to go about it?
+nano15j I recommend reading the book "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Beekeeping" and located a beekeeping club in your area and get to know some beekeepers. See if any classes are available.
They might have been removing propolis from the bee..unless that only happens inside the hive. Maybe it’s an aggressive hygiene cleaning..there are reasons why some feral bees survive mites..
What did you put inside?
I'm thinking about getting into keeping bees. I live in central illinois, and was wondering if it was too late to get started this year? I could have a complete hive made in around a week or so, but I can't really find any where near me that has any for sale and all the sites that ship seem to be sold out.
Assuming I end up getting some bees some how, would I just be setting them up for a suicide? Or if I fed them the sugar syrup or something would they have time to get established enough to make it through the winter?
mrbtwicePSN I can't say for sure as I'm not familiar with the climate, weather, and nectar flow in central Illinois. If you can find a beekeeping club in your area I'd ask people there what they think. In my area we're getting just to the last couple weeks of what I consider a viable time to begin a beehive. Anything after about next week will require a great deal of feeding and nursing to give them any chance for winter. It might be better for you to use this next 9 months to learn, read, take classes, or work with other beekeepers instead of trying to start things later than typical. For a first-year beekeeper it's better to give yourself and the bees as much time as possible for the first winter instead of rushing into it.
TheBeeVlog thanks for the quick response. ive done some looking and cant find any clubs around here on facebook or anything. i do know a few people who have been doing it a few years, so i might see if i can go work with them a time or two. plus get everything i want built up for next year. thaks again for the quick response, ive commented on a few other videos only to never get a response. keep up the great work
mrbtwicePSN It's no problem. I always enjoy interacting with people who take the time to watch my videos and comment. You might find this site helpful in finding a bee club near you: www.ilsba.com/affiliate-associations.html Best of luck to you! :)
I guess i missed it. Easiest way is lemongrass smeared in a hole in a box then.
I have never done trapping of a swarm. I am curious why you need a special box. Could you use a hive box with empty comb and the lemon grass drops? Add a mouse guard to shrink the entry way. Seems it would eliminate the transferring process. What do you think?
closingtime Sure, that would work. And a lot of people have success with that. Some people catch swarms on accident just leaving their dead-outs outside. Although, most experienced swarm catchers recommend hanging the box up as high as you can. They say the odds of success are better that way. Hanging regular hives up high is difficult.
Thanks for your quick reply!
Maybe if there had been two boxes, thy wouldn't need to argue - maybe you got two swarms?
I don't have any personal experience working with Africanized bees, so I can't speak to how aggressive they really are, but based on the experience of others it seems to me that they get a bad rap. They just don't seem to be the "killer bees" the media makes them out to be. Then there's the problems of purebred bees, where the queens are poorly mated or the gene pool is too shallow. There are benefits to having bees that are locally grown and even mated with the feral population.
What they are now saying is the F1 crosses to Africanized bees are the aggressive ones. So second and third generation crosses are good unless aggressive.
I have so many hornets, some ladybugs, and very few bees at home. how can attract more bees here in Houston?
I recommend planting patches of pollinator-friendly flowers. Keeping flowers of one kind grouped together instead of spreading them around will be more likely to attract the bees. Ask your local nursery for native plants that bees like.
Did the frames have any old comb on them? Or were they new frames?
I usually include one frame of old brood comb to help attract the bees. No honey though.
Do you ever have problems with the boxes attracting wasps instead?
+Chelsea McMurdo I haven't had that problem yet. I think it might be because these boxes just aren't conducive to a wasp nest. From my observations yellow jackets only build nests underground, while paper wasps and hornets build an aerial, openly exposed nest. Honey bees seek out enclosed spaces with enough room to build combs.
Whoa dude, you turned into a woman at the end of the video?! Wicked trick!
magicstix0r That's actually a pretty easy trick. Changing back though, that's the hard part.
TheBeeVlog lol
Did you just assume it's gender? 😲 😂😂😂😂
Hi dear, please the square mesh that you applied at the entry of your swarm trap has a 10mm side or 5mm or what? Thx a lot. Bye from Italy.
It's 12mm.
For the imperialists out here, a 1/2" hardware cloth would be the equivalent to 12mm.
I have a few questions if you don't mind....
1. I have all the equipment for keeping bees but no bees. Since we are mid June can I do this to get some bees for free? Or should I wait till next Spring to do this? I am in Indiana. 2. Is this better then buying my first hive? I am a newbe at this so any advice would be awesome!
Howard Case Hi Howard. Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Indiana climate and nectar seasons to know for sure. It certainly couldn't hurt to try catching something this time of year. If you don't get anything this late you can always try again next year. I recommend checking out my friend Jason Bruns's website, letmbee.com/. He's in Indiana and does a lot more swarm trapping than I do.
As for trapping vs buying...That really depends on your goals. Trapping is great for a free source of bees. You never know what type of quality genetics you'll be getting, but they're free. Sometimes you get winners, and sometimes losers. When you buy bees you can get really picky about the source and you can also guarantee you'll have bees. If you don't get anything this year I'd recommend that next year you buy at least one hive of bees from a good supplier. Preferably a nuc rather than a package, if available. Then put out a bunch of traps and see what else you get. Good luck!
Howard Case I just had a swarm leave a hive 2 days ago (I'm near Chicago) so I think you have a good chance to catch a swarm.
CapnChkn1 Thank you for the advice....I will be purchasing my first nuke next Spring! I can't wait....
Just a question: how long do the luring scents last?
Thank you. Do the traps intercept the fleeing swarms of your apiary too? @@TheBeeVlog
Maybe. Trapping swarms is a little like fishing. If you can make it attractive to the swarms and learn to think like a swarm then it increases your odds of catching a swarm.
Could it be that they are protecting their Queen Bee from another queen? I do not know about bee keeping. But, I think there is only one Queen per hive.
Teresa Judy The queen is inside the swarm, not scouting.
Yikes I hope you arent my neighbor if that is hung on the property fence line!
But I do have one question.. do you ever have an ant problem on or near the boxes?
+Supermom Flyaway Ha! :) Well, if I don't hang the swarm traps then the swarms might move into the house walls or attic, then it's a real nuisance. In fact, one did after I caught this swarm, I took the trap down, moved the bees into a hive, and didn't think to put it back up. About a week later a swarm moved into my neighbor's attic instead. Now I make sure to keep the traps up all summer.
No, I don't have ant problems in the swarm traps because I don't put honey in them. There's nothing inside to attract ants. I do see ant problems at my hives from time to time though, and I'm now using an oily sticky substance called Tanglefoot that I apply to the legs of the hive stands. It works great.
That's very informative. Thanks for answering.
Whatever came of this? did they flourish?
They did really well. Lived for 3 years.
Probably another scout from different hive.
I am attempting to catch a swarm this year with a new deep and a 5 frame nuc and adding a couple of drops of lemongrass oil on a cotton swab and I still can't catch any swarms I also don't have any old comb or any bees, I'm trying to start off with a swarm as my first colony
any suggestions?
It's a lot like fishing. The more hooks you put in the water, the better the chance of getting a catch. I recommend putting more bait hives out. But also check with your local club about when swarm season is at its peak in your area. For me swarm season is over here. Getting the bait hives out early in the season will increase your chances too.
@@TheBeeVlog I am a teen that's into beekeeping, I live in Washington state and I am guessing myself that swarm season is over so I am trying next year in early march putting out multiple swarm traps to maybe get any swarm of bees.
Excellent! Best of luck!
Interesting, it’s like watch a rooster fight! Like military personal, they are going to defend their claim with their lifes
if you had some sort of food in the bait hive it would explain the fighting
How big was the entrance ?
1.25 inch diameter.
It's look like a drone there getting out of the hive must be sick . I don't see why not bees wouldn't like a beer too! lmao
i don't under stand the chewing either on the entrance, other to smooth it down
.If you put your bait boxes in bee lines you will a/ways catch bees year after year. These are Bees HWY's which bees travel in as well as power lines, pipe lines ect.
Well you never know. I've heard bees like beer. :)
They do and soda pop '' )
that was film's on my birth day
Seems very likely
why do you have to use a bait hive & then move them to a hive... can't you just bait a hive & lure them into that?
+Elisa P Sure, you can bait a hive. Many people do that. Luring swarms into a hive is all about numbers. The more hives you set out and bait, the better chance you have of having one move in. Using cheap traps is more cost effective than buying a whole bunch of nice hives that may not get any use. Bait hives don't have to be nice because the bees won't be using them year-round. You can make them out of scrap lumber.
Bee gangwars
it's being attacked because it's drunk no bs.
Please explain?