Shimano GRX 1x vs 2x Drivetrain for Gravel // Gear Jumps and Range Analyzed
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- I've ridden both the Shimano GRX 1x and 2x mechanical drivetrains on mixed terrain for an extended period of time and have some thoughts on deciding between them. Do reduced range and increased jumps between gears on a 1x system really affect cycling in the real world? Who is 1x really for? Find out in this video where qualitative and quantitative analyses make for a pretty nerdy discussion.
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Numerical analysis video on 1x vs 2x drivetrains:
• 1x vs 2x Drivetrains F...
I watched this before I went 1x, and now I'm watching it after. It's the most in-depth and well produced video on 1x vs 2x that I've found. Kudos my friend. 👍
After 4 years of 1x on a gravel bike I can say 2x is superior if you do any road riding. Also less cross-chaining
Can't cross chain a 1x but I cross chain my 2x frequently
@@michaelwalsh6357 anytime you're on the largest or smallest cogs on a 1x, the angle of your chain is similar to that of crossed-chain on a 2x, hence my comment
I maintain that it’s completely personal. preference. How about “1x isn’t for me,” instead of “1x sucks.”
Case in point re: preference. I am opting for a 48T x 11-34T 1X 12-speed. This gives me a similar range (slightly narrower) to my current 53-39T, 12-28T set-up. 0 degree offset on the chainring.
Under this setup, I still get 1T increments on the 5 highest gears. With larger jumps only occurring in the climb gears. But not as bad as the initial jump from dropping from large to small chainring.
My riding style is such that I am in the big ring until I need to climb, with maybe the 19T and 21T cogs being used with both chainrings. This means 13 gears used in practice on a 2x setup.
I commute a lot, but quicker than most. The city I live in is has rolling hills at best. I personally have never spun out on 53x12, and my cadence is quite low in that gear.
For my purposes, 1X works perfectly. If I had a 13-speed Ekar I’d be set.
That being said, I still have the frame internally routed with a front derailleur cable, so I can swap to 2X if I change my mind…
@@michaelwalsh6357 you can literally hear the effect of bad chain angle on a 1X when you're in the lowest or highest gear, which can only happen in 2X if you deliberately try to cross-chain.
That said, i prefer 1X. I'm not a competitive cyclist so i value simplicity over maximizing performance. Electronic 2X drivetrains allows the rider to use only 1 shifter by letting the electronics pick the next gear and chainring combo so that you don't need to. But even if it went down to a competitive price vs. mechanical 1X i'd still go with mechanical: less complex, won't run out of battery.
I don’t even own a gravel or road bike.... and I still watched the whole video! Good job!
Ha, maybe time to add to your stable 😆
@@TheBikeSauce I’ve been thinking about it... just so I can ride more
I don't have one either and I to watched the whole thing💯
Only difference is I'm waiting for mine, comes w/ a 1x 40t/ 11-42 I'll survive 😊
I’ve gone 1x on my personal diverge. Using 40, 11-46 and it’s great! I’m too weak to run 11-42 😆
I just discovered your site this morning.. love it! Love the simplified, measured method you show and explain your analytics. Also really appreciated your position as the “Average Cyclist”. I’ve always felt this niche in bike channels was sorely missing! Thanks! Looking forward to more content!! 👍
Thx for the feedback!
I ended up going with a 2x for my new gravel bike for the versatility. Some days I’m going to ride aggressive 650b gravel wheels and some days I’ll be riding 700c slicks. The 2x gives me a few more options in the middle gears which means I won’t have to change chainrings when changing wheels.
Additionally I’ve run 2x and 3x on most of my bikes and have never had an issue with reliability of the front derailleur. It’s well out of the way of mud and dirt (the kind of things that mess up rear derailleurs).
Right on. It’s the thought process that’s important in my opinion. Making informed decisions based on your particular style and needs 👍
Great video! I recently chose 1x for my gravel bike. I love the simplicity and gear jumps haven’t been an issue. I do spin out on the downhills but I’m all for the party pace when riding gravel. I’ll save the top end speed for my roadie!
Right on!
As a long term roadie and new to gravel I prefer a 2x set up. I have used 53/39, 48/34 and 38/24 sub compact. I find that on flat and rolling terrain the standard road set up, it is a inner most of the time with an overdrive for down hills. For the compact outer chainring most of the time with a granny ring for climbing. The sub compact mountain set up ran out of steam on the flats too early. With a 39 inner you can go 30 to 35 kph with out using the two smallest cogs. 39/13, 42/14, 48/16 are the same gears for about 30kph. Any faster and you have to change up front.
Great overview! I'm upgrading my daily rider piece by piece and this has been a great summary of what a very very average, non-racing but frequent rider, can expect from either option. Having the technical data and the real world input was super helpful.
Thanks for the feedback! Enjoy your build / upgrading!
Just got a gravel today 3T Exploro Primo. Glad I saw your video as it reassured me on my decision . I went 2by. Another reason was because it was between SRAM Rival vs GRX. The GRX was smoother plus I am used to Shimano as I have Ultegra on my road bike. Had a mountain bike and loved the 1by. But I will be doing about 70% road with this bike so went for the 2by. 😅
thank you, totally convinced to stay with 3 cog at pedal KMart basic "mountain" bike (NOW WITH 8 speed rear = 24 SPEED) saving $$$$$ YESSS :)
I just finished my bike last week. I am using 2x11 with 50/34 chainrings on the front (105 - grx front derailleur wasn't available) and with a 11/40 casette rear (GRX 810 - no adapter needed) and i love the wide range!
Same here!
Olli: how did you size the chain for that set up? Using the 50 ring and 40 cog, plus 2 links? Did you need to add more links or make the chain longer than the recommended 2 links on thr shimano manual?
@@Bleedingtoes Im currently using a 118 link chain (came in that size), however, i think i might try to shorten it to 116 (currently with 118 quite some extension left on big-big and nearly not extended on small-small)
I adapted a 11-40 casete to replace a 105 11-32 casete and loving it to.
I enjoyed your video. I currently have a LaPierre EMTB with 1 x Shimano set up but I have just purchased a Colnago eGRV Gravel bike with a 2 x Di2 GRX system. I’m worried it will be a little over kill for my modest style / need of riding but looking forward to getting it next week and trying it out. I’m hoping the philosophy of “it’s better to have and not need than need and not have” will apply !! 🙂
Nice stable! Happy early nbd!
Excellent video! Have been weighing benefits/sacrifices of 1x vs 2x system as I upgrade components. Have 2x now, but I think you convinced me to give the 1x a try. Thanks. Great job
All about being informed and making the dedication based on your needs and not what others tell say you need
Thanks again, I watched the companion video first, the one with the math, gear ratios & graphs, and this one was great, too
I was considering (and ended up buying) a Trek FX Sport 5 hybrid/fitness/gravel bike with flat handlebars and the Shimano 1x GRX drivetrain. My options were not 1x or 2x, my options were buy the bike or don't buy it. I initially had a lot of the same doubts initially that you said people skeptical of 1x systems usually have. Your videos helped me make a more informed purchase decision, and I've been super happy with the bike - the 1x's supposed limitations are not relevant for my riding style & use cases. Plus, for group rides on pavement I have a (2x) road bike that helps me keep up.
Best,
Ron
Kenosha WI
I just bought an entry level Cannondale Topstone 4 with a 1x system and on the ride home thought “oh my goodness, did I make a mistake by not getting the Topstone 3 with the 2x to get a higher ratio for road riding?” (which is what I’ll be doing most of the time).
That’s how I came to this video and your gear ratio video. And after you explained (hopefully I understood it correctly), that there’s really only one higher gear ratio on a 2x (depending on what we’re comparing, of course) which leads to about a 3mph difference at equal output…I felt SO much better about my purchase.
I rarely comment on videos but I wanted to say thank you very much.
Haha thanks. Data gives me a sense of security too 😆
My new Litespeed titanium "gravel" bike came with GRX 810 2X11. I really wanted to hate the FD since I've been riding 1X road and MTB for a long time. I will say that I am not hating the FD and it just works. I think some day I'll switch to some future wireless 13 speed drivetrain since this bike is my "forever" bike, but for now I'm happy as a clam.
Fantastic. Yea a properly adjusted front mech makes it easy to run 2x
My own experience of this is if you do a lot of road links between gravel sections a 2x is for you, if however you tend to drive to your start points and ride cross country mostly, 1x will be good for you, the disadvantage of a 1x is your chain wheel will be specced for the climbs or low speed rough you ride , that means it will be spinning out on fast or road sections.
I run a 42t -11-40t on 27.5 rims {don't forget wheel size affects overall gearing substantially} as most of my rides have climbs but nothing this setup can't cope with so 1x works fine, but you have to consider where you ride, THAT is the deciding factor.
I Think the overall conclusion is spot on…. 1 is better and more versitile - small Price to pay over 2
I'm a road biker who typically uses very "old-school" narrow range cassette, like an 11-23 or even 11-21, with
'traditional" 53-39 or similar chain rings. I'm pretty strong, but I live where it's mostly pretty flat. Those gear jumps are nice and small, but it takes two chain wheels of the right tooth counts to achieve anything close to a wide range. I guess I can summarize this way -- I like having options. I'm in the process of converting my flat bar hybrid, a type I never use anymore, to drop-bar gravel with bar-end shifters. It's a V-brake 3X. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I think those pie-plate-sized cassettes look really odd.
I recommend to ride the 1by with 11/46 sunrace and 42 in the front. With the setup you have the same lowest gear as 2by and you gain high a bit of speed at the top.
If your new, older, or carrying a load,1x has a range limitation. If you need a climbing gear down to 20”, you give up top speed. With 2x GRX, I just changed 11-34 to 11-40 and bingo, I don’t blow up and still have my top end.
I’ve been doing my research towards the purchase of a new Gravel Bike these past few months... was still on the fence towards a 1x vs 2x setup. (I was likely still leaning towards a 2x) But after watching this video, I’m convinced that the 1x setup is how I want to go.. thanks!
Nice!!
Love the high level of detail engineering prof. I knew there was a greater jump between gears on a one-by-drive train but I didn't realize the jumps were not equidistant between the gears. I've been riding a SRAM 1x11 mountain bike and it really doesn't seem to be a problem on the trail. Whatever the jump is your legs adapt. My experience with gravel bikes on the 2x drive train systems the 34 tooth low gear doesn't get it done here in the mountains of North Carolina my friends suggest the same.
Ha thx for nerding out with us! You ought to be able to swap to an 11-40 without too much trouble
I’m changing my 1x to 2x as I really don’t have enough range to climb the hills in my area and this is my bike for everything, but my rear cassette will have more range than the one you were using, I’ll still have my original cassette (11-42) until I get my fitness up to a good standard. Probably go down to a 11-38 once I have a good level of fitness again I’ll have to see how much I utilise my low gears once my fitness is better.
Nice. Of course it all depends on your style and local terrain. Right on!
Yes. If you want a bike that does everything, 2x is the way to go. Throw on any diameter wheel and tire combo, load the bike up or don't - 2x has you covered.
I completely agree with your assessment, my 1x works great for me I love “party pace” probably defines my pace. Even on my 2x road bike I can’t keep up with the fast group and faster than slow group, sooo I ride alone a lot!!! The noise on my 1x drives me nuts and I really have to keep that 1x realllly clean and the noise goes away.
Great! Can't take credit for the #partypace phrase though. That's all @pathlesspedaled
Randy Richardson is 1X makes noises ? I thought 2X is more noisier !
@@maksmax6401 that’s what I thought too, I am confused now. Someone please clear this up: 1x or 2x which makes more noise
Honestly, when both dialed in, they’re both pretty quiet. the 1x system is said to be noisier probably because of the higher tension on clutched systems. And of course most people use the argument of worse chain lines.
"Even on my 2x road bike I can’t keep up with the fast group and faster than slow group, sooo I ride alone a lot!!! " Me too.
Thanks again for your very knowledgeable insight, have a grx 1x setup but went a bit extreme with my gears, installed a 36 chainring and an 11-46 cassette. Works fine for me and at my age of 50, i can climb walls ;) more power to your channel and looking forward to your future inputs.
Thanks! I’d love to go 11-46 in the rear on a 1x setup. May do a GRX 2x to 1x conversion in the near future 😀
I've suggested this to you before, but you really need to check out the Vicious Cycle gravel series. It's in Washington State, so a bit of a drive for you. You should definately do one of the last (3) of the series. Partially because these are truly epic/fun. Partially because the first (2) might no happen due to covid. Worth the trip.
Hi, thanks for the great video, I love nerding out!
This may be nitpicky but I disagree with the argument starting at 4:01. Sounds like you're saying the cassettes have bigger jumps at the low end, evidenced by bigger differences in tooth count, and the fact the the side profile of the ekar cassette is nonlinear. And, that bigger jumps on low end are OK cause we're going slow anyway.
However, it's the gear ratio (i.e 1/tooth count) which matters, not the tooth count. Bigger gears require bigger tooth count differences to remain linear spacing in the gear ratio. It's evident in your graph of tooth jump percentages - to me that shows that the 11-42 is linear while the 11-34 reduces jumps between gear ratios in the lower gears. So yes, 11-42 has bigger jumps in ratios than 11-34 on the low end, but they're no higher than the jumps on the high end. I think close jumps on the low end are just as important as on the high (if not more)
Anyways, I appreciate my 11-42 for gravel cause I sure need it :D
Great review. Another consideration would be the individual who has opted for the one drop bar bike for both gravel and road riding as opposed to having separate bikes for both disciplines. In that instance I really think the 2x makes more sense.
For sure. In my case, I only own my diverge for both road and gravel and UBS recently switched to 1x. It works for me since I’m not particularly fast on the road and I prefer to ride solo anyways.
Road bikes with 2x setups and narrowly-geared rear cassettes offer pleasantly-small cadence changes (5-7 RPM) while switching gears at typical cruising speeds (e.g., 18-22 MPH). My gravel-bike cruising speeds are lower (16-20 MPH), and BOTH 1x and 2x gravel drivetrains force larger cadence changes (12-15 RPM) when switching gears in that speed range because the cassette gears jump by two teeth instead of one. Although my gravel bike opens up riding on dirt roads, the relatively large cadence changes required while switching gears on the majority of my ride (relatively-flat to modestly-rolling terrain where I live) detracts from the experience.
You can run up to a 40 tooth cog in the rear with the 810, although it won’t shift as well with the clutch on.
Great video. I have 1x on my MTB and gravel bike and see no reason to ever go back. I am old and have no fond memories of the front mech. Hope to see something better than a chain next!
Ha! Right on!
I'm an old-skool cyclist who assembled a 1X 32/11-50 monstercross a while ago. I like it a lot. I also have a 2X 38/26 11-36 gravel bike. I've been thinking about converting it to 1X. But after viewing your piece, I think I'll leave it as-is. Both systems work well.
Great! The monstercross build sounds intriguing!
@@TheBikeSauce it's a circa 2010 NOS steel 29er Voodoo Dambala. I run the original steel fork with 650b wheels too.
Kickass
Two notes:
1. Another reason for the 1x drive train is to give frame designers more room for bigger tires to clear in the bottom bracket area.
2. I'm running a 11x42 cassette on my 2x Diverge w/ GRX 810 RD by swapping to a Wolf Tooth Goatlink 10s. The link is slightly longer than stock but more importantly has a repositioned b-screw stop so that you can push the upper jockey wheel down below the 42t cog. It doesn't shift as crisply as stock at the small end of the cassette, but it works. I also added 4 links to the chain. My bottom gear is now 30x42.
Agreed. Also I believe the newer goat link dm is for 11 speed GRX and is claimed to work well with 11-42. I’d really like to see if the GRX 810 and a goat link could work with an 11-46, but can’t find anyone who’s tried.
There‘s a Video out there with a rd-rx812, modified with a long Cage (m8000sgs Cage) shifting on a 11-46 with a 50-34(16t difference, like the rx600 crankset) I can find it for you
If Cage length would be considered as only indication for derailleur capacity, the rx812 with the sgs cage is the derailleur with the largest capacity (108mm between pulleys, 105mm is Rx810, 86mm is stock 812)
@@daseishorn1863 Nice! Thx for that info!
To address point 1. Frame designers want to give consumers a short chainstay AND larger tires. Remember that mountain bikes had 2x for many years with largish tires. 2.3 in tires have no place in gravel in my opinion. anything over 47mm is a mountain bike tire.
Great content! Thanks a lot. Getting a new Diverge Sport Carbon (in blue color) and still not sure if I shall covert it to 1x Di2.
Nice! Happy NBD. I suggest riding it for a while in stock form and see what upgrades would most benefit your riding style
this guy answers all the comments. rare AF. 1x for me. If im spinning out the bike ill aero tuck and recover instead of fighting the physics of air.
Ha! Chanel is small, so it's easy to chat with everyone, especially the nice comments. Aero tuck for the win!
Killing it mate! Was very nice for you to promote #partypace from pathlesspedaled.
I like the SPH vs MPH. 🤘
Ha! Least I could do for a great channel (pathlesspedaled). I do take credit for SPM > MPH 😄
Great info. Thanks.
2x all day if you ride a mix of gravel and road or have just one bike. Also, group rides can be harder if you are riding with some speed monsters. I think 1x is still a great setup but if given a choice why take less, so 2x all day I guess. If KOMs are important to you then you know what you want. If you are bikepacking 1x could be a good go but agin, why take less. I have 1x on my Fat Bike and love it I guess MTB would be a good choice too.
Lol so either 1x or 2x. I agree - totally depends on the situation and individual
@@TheBikeSauce Haha true, I say 2x on gravel and road and 1x on MTB and Fatties. Bikepacking is still a grey area but I'd go with 2x.
Think I’ve come to the same conclusion, my only issue has been the huge jump on the 11 speed 11-46 Shimano cassette, 37 to 46 is more a leap than a step.
Ha yea, bailout gear for sure
You could try the Subrace 11-46. I think it shifts just as well but the 2nd cog is a bit larger to eliminate that feeling. It does mean a bigger gap in the smaller cogs though.
@@steveedwards5280 Have you used it?
@@Leo-gt1bx yes, we are running it in one of the wife's mountain bikes
11x46 cassette with 38t up front 1x GRX seems to be the perfect setup for me I need that 46 for climbing which I hate doing and could care less about top end speed
Love it. That range sounds great. Using the GRX 812 with no adapters? Or did you need a wolf tooth road link dm?
@@TheBikeSauce the 812 will work with a 11x46 with no issues if anything you may need to add a few links to your chain
Going for this setup in spring when the parts come in, can't wait!
If problems occur better than wolf tooth is changing the plates to RD-M8000 SGS.
Thank You for this video, when ever my 2021 Diverge arrives with GRX 1x , I should be just fine for 98 percent solo rides, flat terrain. Not to many events in my neck of the woods ,where I would try to hold on to a wheel and match cadence , for now. I reasoned I could always go up two teeth on that chain ring to 42 grx, also I could perhaps see what’s compatible with grx 800 derailleur and switch out the rear cassette from the stock mtb XT cassette to something that’s more road if it’s compatible . Will see will , cross that bridge later this year or next. No groups , no need to hang on to a wheel for now, ride my own pace and a total assessment this year on that. 😊☝🏻. Thank You man 😊👍🏻
Fantastic! Thx for watching. Sounds like you’ll be totally fine on 1x. If you decide to go bigger cassette, I believe you can get away with 11-46 no issues and no additional mods on the GRX 812 derailleur (which you’ll have on the 1x).
Chiming in on an old video with an idea: I'd love to see you make a video where you try, say, a 1x11 or 1x12 e*thirteen 9x42 or 9x46 cassette paired with a 36t or 38t chainring. They also have a nonlinear progression from small to big (fixing my biggest pet peeve over the shimano 11-34) and give you the same or greater range than a GRX 2x. The best of all worlds? I think so!
Great idea. Will get around to it at some point.
Very nice video, thanks! All my bikes have 2x, but this has me thinking. 🤔
Haha! Don’t go spending money on my account
Other drawbacks of 1 by, include: increased friction, noise & wear! 1 by will eventually be the norm, but as of now, I believe it's for the gravel racers only.
I just bought a 2023 trek Checkpoint SL5. It comes with a 2x11 GRX group. I want to move to 1x11.
I purely ride gravel and local crushed rock RR trails here in Nebraska. I rarely drop to the small chainring.
Not sure my shifter and rear der will work with 12 speed? If not what is the best combination?
40T or 42T?
1x11 Cassette?
Thanks Mr Sauce. Here I am two tears (and years) after you dropped this vid contemplating this exact question with the caveat that the frame I'm building is specifically 1X. I am not nerdy enough to know why? I think it has to do with cable routing. I bought a Omnium CX frame last summer after riding a test bike 1x set up. Nice steel bike. I'm waiting on Omnium CS to get back as to why no 2X, but as "2x guy" and as I am now ready to build this and really kinda sort of want a 2X. Any way thanks for the vid. If you have any words of encouragement they would be appreciate it>
Could be there’s just no way to mount a front der. Weird shaped tubes, or just too congested in the bb area
@@TheBikeSauce Big thanks!
with 1x12 42x10-51 we have gaps are almost identical to grx400 2x10 ( 30-46,11-36) with wider range
0:16 "..It's going to get a little bit testicle..."
What kind of bike show is this 😂
We like to mix it up apparently
First of all thank you for the great content. There's one last thing that is keeping me from deciding on a 1x drivetrain eventhough on all other fronts, I'm convinced it would be for me, being loaded riding. Thoughts?
Right. You could consider a mullet setup for this. Look up’ budget mullet’ if you don’t want to spend crazy dollars on an AXS system
What a great video! And thanks for the graphs, they are really helpful. I just bought a Diverge with the 40 t front and 11-42 back. I’ve been doing mostly gravel but I find myself using the lower, faster 5 gears most of the time. I’m not a hard core rider but I’m wondering if putting a 42 t would up the use of the middle gears more evenly. Thoughts?
Sure. If you don’t think you’d run out of climbing gears, then there’s no downside.
Thanks was looking for this
Excellent. Thanks man.
That Ritchey bike is super cool 👌🏼
Most definitely
This is why I am leaning towards a classified hub.
So cool. Really want to try one out
@@TheBikeSauce yes seems like it would be great.
Great video as usual! I'm a party pace rider as well and the 1X has been completely sufficient for me. I did purchase a 38T chainring for times I know I'll be riding more hills and that's worked for me so far. The winner of the Northcape 4000 ultra-endurance race was using a 1X SRAM Apex so it's perfectly capable of being used on road if you're not riding a paceline.
What are your thoughts on the Outback? I purchased a similar allroad steel bike after having the Diverge and absolutely love the ride and simplicity of the1X steel bike.
Nice. 38 up front makes a lot of sense off top end isn’t a concern (11-42 cassette?).
Full review of the Outback in the works. Ritchey steel is fantastic and the Outback goes against some trends in the bike industry in the best way
@@TheBikeSauce Yes, 11-42 in back. I rarely use the 40x11 when I have the bigger chainring on so it doesn’t bother me. The 38 chainring is more of my touring/bikepacking setup. Can’t wait for your Outback video. It think it’s truly one of the best all around bikes if you have to have just one bike.
bro you deserve more views.
Haha the best compliment. I’m ok with slow and steady growth
I have 2x11 on my gravel with 48/32 and 11-34 setup and tbh I really love it. And most of the time I am on a big ring in front anyway. On the flats and decents I can still spin fast with a good cadence and use harder gears on the back. I feel better with 48 then with 52 on my road bike because I use the whole Range of the cassete. I am tempted to try 1x on a Gravel one day. I also wonder how would 48 on a road racing bike work. Because tbh how often we spin out te 11 teeth cog?
Sorry with Sword just having been released by Microshift in the past year there is not much reason to get these. Their ridiculously expensive and the main reason cheaper road sets are the norm on gravel bikes. Your one by explanation lacks something else the 2x chain rings allow the use of a low range which is easier to pedal and a high range that is easier to pedal. The 40 or 42 tooth 1x are going to be harder to pedal on the low range ant quite as easy to pedal on the high range. This is more evident if you look at it in Gear inches(see Path Less Pedaled channel).
I have an order in for a 2022 Specialized Diverge Sport Carbon, which my bike shop tells me is going to sport a Sram 1 by drivetrain instead of the Shimano 2 by that came standard on your bike. Like you I am a pretty average cyclist but I come from a road background. Will I have much adjustment moving to the 1 by?
It’ll be an adjustment, but hopefully a welcome one. You’ll probably miss the resolution of ratios, but it won’t be a problem unless you do fast group rides and need to hold specific power / cadence
ETA on the Outback review? Excited to hear what you think of the bike, I'm thinking about purchasing it soon.
Oh nice. Lookin at 1-2 weeks tops
@@TheBikeSauce Sounds great! Initial impression you're willing to share real quick for road usage? Looking at the Outback Breakaway for travel even though I'll primarily use it for casual/partypace road riding. Every review of the bike I've read have been very positive with the caveat of it being "very stable". Trying to see if that equates to a boring bike on road or if it's still a fun ride on the road.
The best thing about running my 1x GRX setup is being able to set up a dropper post!
Nice! Can’t live without one on my mtb - do you find you use it a lot on gravel?
@@TheBikeSauce So far i haven't used it on gravel at all lol, because where I live is mostly flat. I've used it on some steep descents on single tracks and the lower center of gravity gives a much better sense of control and stability. Where it really shines is at traffic lights in the city lol
Great videos! Thanks! I watched both on 1x vs 2x. Wondering what your thoughts are if your concerns aren't about speed or jumps between gears, but having the gears for going up steep inclines and / or riding with a load for bike packing or touring?
1x makes it really easy to swap chainrings. A smaller ring up front will bias the whole range toward climbing
What about a wide range or “mullet” cassette? Pro’s? Cons?
Great option as long as you don’t mind the bigger jumps. Also, your derailleur needs to be able to handle the range. Mullet usually implies a mountain bike cassette/ derailleur combo in the rear
With drop bar brifters, it may not be compatible without a tanpan, which converts the different pull ratios
AXS (maybe Di2 also?) has the both sides shifting and cross chain 2x issues sorted, its right for up, left for down no matter 1x or 2x. You cannot shift incorrectly as the system is choosing the gears. Personally I run a 40t with a 9-50t on the rear. Don't see a reason to go 2x, but have nothing against it either.
Ha yea, e-shifting is a whole new level. Perhaps I'll eventually go Di2 or AXS, but for now my riding doesn't warrant the sticker shock.
I think for me I am 2 x for my road bike and 1 x on mtb. I am going gravel and the 1 x seems more for me because I am a notorious cross chainer and skipping seems less likely. Also i have been told that i can put larger tires (less mechanics with 2 ring system and one less cable) on a 1 x which long term is the plan.
Tire clearance improvements on 1x depends on the frame, but it sounds like a solid plan!
I am going to disagree with the assumption that 'bigger jumps between gears' makes more sense at the low end. When I'm grunting up a hill, it's hugely important to have 'just the right' gear - as I'm usually dieing going uphill. It's rare that I'll be doing over 20mph and need to 'fine tune' my speed. Maybe if you do a lot of group riding that might be a thing. But when you are on gravel, you are usually solo...
I'm actually leaning towards a 2x for rail trail touring setup (not a 3x), I'm not even considering a 1x, it may work great on a MTB, but, just really lacks the range for touring. The reason I am leaning towards a 2x is I will be mostly on rail trails and the coast line (fairly flat). I just won't need the massive range/increments that a 3x gives you. I really think when deciding 1x vs. 2x vs.3x you REALLY need to know 1) your riding ability and 2) your terrain you will be riding on. There IS NO!!! hard fast rule for 1x vs 2x vs 3x, there are any number of factors in deciding. 1x has simply gotten away with "the cool factor" more than anything. I personally know several people that are completely getting away from 1x just because it does not offer what they want/need in gearing range. And here comes the keyboard cyclist with the "overlapping" and "gear/cassette" range warriors. It's as much personal preference as it is anything "scientific".
It is compatible if I will repalce GRX-600 1X to my SLX Cranset 11 speed? or do i need to buy a bottom bracket for GRX-600? pLS. ADVISE AND THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
Less maintenance how do I link doesn't do much in love mate plus 2 by GRX you can run 11-40 cassette. I love my GRX Di2 815 2x11.
okay, how about the compatibility between the GRX shifter and the XT 11Speed rear derailleur?. You could use the 11s XT 11-50 cassette and derraileur with the 42t plate if the pull ratios are the same on the derrailleurs and shifters!
And if you are running the Di2 system, then you colud do this no problem and get a huge range wit a .85 low gear and a 3.81 high gear making it easyer on the climbs and with an aftermarket plate you could take it to the 46 or even 48 huge plate you find on the 2x system and potentially get a range from .96 to 4.36 or .92 to 4.8.
Still missing the info on the pull ratios to make shure it can work out.
For me, the 40 or 42 stock tooth is enough to make ir work properly on a gravel bike considering I used to climb very steep hills with a .85 lowest gear and even when it was hard, i am no athlete and use the bike only for commuting.
Yea, you've stumbled onto the mullet setup (road shifters, mtb derailleurs). There's a difference in pull ratio, but some companies make converters (tan pan, etc). Some prefer the mullet, while others would rather not deal with adapters, which can be finicky. All just depends on your terrain and personal preferences.
Have they changed the grx setup, thought the 8xx grx setup had 48-31t chainring setups in 2x11? And the 6xx grx 46-30t?
There is bo good reason to ever use 1x unless you are worried about bashing your big ring on rocks, which you won’t be doing on a gravel bike.
It's strange, in a day where bicyclists are looking to shed weight and complexity and reduce the gearing, the automotive manufacturers went from a 5 speed to a 10 speed in common vehicles.
with lots of 15%+ hills everywhere around me, 2x seems to be a better answer.
10-51 gives you lower gear.
@@h1n1worm Great idea. Now think going down the hill. Yeah.
Rode my 2021 diverge 1x one time and switched over to 2x the very next week but I'm on road trails alot more than off road
Perfect. It's all in the preference and rider style. Glad to hear your bias is based on actual experience.
I don’t think it all about gear ratios with a two by set up. It’s also about chain line. You mentioned that you wouldn’t want to cross chain your 48 to 34, that’s exactly what the 40 to 42 is on the 1x. Smaller gears are less efficient and I imagine chain wear is greater with a 1x system too. Thanks for your video, I enjoyed it!
I generally believe the chain line debate is overblown.
Sun Race have a 11-50 cassette, do you think that would befit the 1x on the steeper longer climbs ? I assume an extension for the derailleur would be required.
At that range, it's called a Mullet setup, where basically it's MTB cassette and derailleur. Definitely great for steep climbs, but again, it's a balance; you'll loose the fine spacing between gears.
I love how dirty the drivetrain is on those close ups!
Do the different GRX rear derailleurs matter for the 1x vs 2x uses? I.e., does one RD work better with larger cassette? Or would any of the GRX RDs work for 1x? Thanks!
For mechanical shifting the 810 is good for 2x, and 812 is needed for wide range cassettes. They aren’t interchangeable
Thanks. I have the 810 but I’m using it with a wolf tooth RD hangar extender. Do you think that would work with a 1x front ring of around 40T installed on the existing 2x cranks?
Hi I watch your vid regarding 1x. I am a beginner and planning to buy a gravel bike with 1x set up. Can you suggest what gravel bike set up for me. Im planning a 1x11 gravel bike. Thank you
That's a bit of a loaded question. Feel free to reach out through my website's contact page. thebikesauce.com
Still think you need to compare a 50-34/11-36 2x system to 1x.
Beyond the mechanics there's a psychology of perception of riding. taking your gravel bike to the edgy side toward mountain bikes with the 1x drivetrain is one thing. Lightly adapting a road style bike to light gravel riding with the 2x setup is another.
Absolutely. Whole spectrum of options between the two extremes!
no chance to change my rear sprocket now I made a mistake... sale of my bike back in the summer without realizing the market would stall. Is that test bike your riding actually for sale somewhere? Is it in stock?
The test bike is a Ritchey Outback, not for sale, but frame sets are available. Not sold as complete bikes
How much weight can be saved by going 1x ? The cassettes I looked at are at least 200g heavier than the less pizza-like ones I can opt for with a 2x system. Front derailleur is about 80g, chain ring savings I guess about another 100g. Plus the difference in shifter mech saved and the cable. The chain probably needs to be roughly the same length in both systems I guess, but I am no engineer :-P
What am I missing?
The weight savings are marginal at best. It’s not really a reason to go 1x
@@TheBikeSauce Lovely to hear, thx!
After going rim brake and Ti-frame, next step shall be 3x then :-P
Cheers!
Hi, would you be kind enough to let me know what handlebars you have in this vid, thank you in advance.
@ritcheydesign Venturemax
I'm looking to replace my old 3x9 gravel bike and have this exact question.
However, I spend most of my time on the 39t chain ring and in the middle 50% of my 11-34 cassette.
People say 1x gives cross chaining issues but crunching the numbers for GRX 2x, it seems that, to replicate what I ride currently, I'll either be done more cross chaining than a 1x, or shifting at the front almost as often as I will at the rear.
Am I just unlucky in my ratio use or does anyone else find this?
On my GRX 2x, I shift the front mech very often. Depends on where in the range of gears I am, but as often as once for every 5 rear shifts isn't uncommon for me. This is if you are really picky about avoiding cross-chaining. Others could care less and it's probably not a big deal.
@@TheBikeSauce cross chaining is something I've always been fussy about. I'm old skool in that I also ease off for gear changes but I guess that's a consequence of getting into cycling before hyperglide was invented and being a kid meant mechanical sympathy was important as I couldn't afford replacement parts other than birthdays or Christmas
Im a bike noob that got a 1x as my first bike, but im curious about the 2x for #partypace
Not sure you need 2x for partypace 😆
You can spin 1x any way you want, but the cold, hard truth is that there is less range, period. If you want more/same range as a 2x system, you have to have bigger jumps across the cassette, and unless you do some custom setup, you're just not going to get the same range as a 2x out of the box on a stock bike. I can't ever see myself getting a 1x system for an Adventure bike. The cassettes with the range I would want are either stupid heavy or stupid expensive.
I think 1x is really only appropriate for an adventure bike. Die hard roadies will always go 2x, which definitely makes sense. I ended up saving a bunch of weight overall going 1x GRX (video in the works). Totally loving it. Everyone’s going to have a different opinion; that’s why there are so many options these days.
It’d be nicer if people could express their own opinions with a less combative tone, but perhaps wishful thinking.
@@TheBikeSauce My hate for 1x drivetrains has nothing to do with you. ;-) Sorry if I seem overly aggressive.
Wasn’t offended. My point is why hate a drivetrain?
Can you swap to a single on a 2x system?
Sure. There are a couple of things you’d need to do like use a narrow wide front chain ring and get a wider range cassette, which may require a different rear derailleur
Is the steel frame better at absorbing shocks then the Diverge?
Different feel, I wouldn’t say better. Also diverge has additional suspension in the headset while Outback doesn’t. Ritchey steel tubing is remarkably comfortable while not feeling too flexy.
I’ve got two gravel bikes with a 1x , a cross with a 2x, and two road bikes with a 2x....it’s pretty hilly in California and need some climbing gears.
On my speedier 3T Exploro gravel bike, I just find myself falling back from friends on even just a small 1-2% downhill sections where I cannot seem to comfortably cadence above 27.5mph with a 40t front and 11/42 in back as going downhill slopes the groups run up in sometimes mid 30’s. I either need to increase to a 42 up front or switch to a 2x setup, which would have been easier to start with.
Can’t recommend a 1x setup unless trying to cut cost or weight or you only ride party pace at 15-20mph.
Great breakdown, and good lord that's quite a stable. Another data point demonstrating that there is no 'globally optimal' answer and it's all dependent on the rider's preference and given terrain.
@@TheBikeSauce absolutely, emphasis on terrain. I think a 1x for me is a 10/50 rear with a 42 front would be ideal.
#partypace should be the name of this channel...
Can’t take credit for it. All Russ at Pathlesspedaled
I try to setup two gravels both with 2x11. The first is 46/30+11/36=502% with RD-RX400. The second with a greater range because it should cover road, gravel and some trails. I plan to use for this setup 46/30+11/46=641% with a RD-M8000 with a swapped cage from a RD-T6000 or RD-RX4000 and a Tanpan adapter. The Sensah RD-M520C would be the ideal candidate for +500% range but it is out of stock.
ruclips.net/video/0YWe7x6YONg/видео.html
Performance-wise 2x all the way, less jump jitter on your muscle.
It's all personal preference. The point is to be informed and make the call yourself.
Fullerton loop?
Parts of it, yup!
Have you had a look at this site: www.gear-calculator.com ?
It is simple enough for me to understand (no engineering background) and had all the nerdy analysis I “needed” to see & compare progressions of my 1x10/50 MTB to the possible permutations of a 2 x 10/52 gravel bike build (yeah - a complete build dream in the world of Diverge frame shortages). Great channel. Keep on the good work.
Fantastic resource to nerd out on gear ratios.
Smiles per mile..... NICE!!!
SPM > MPH 😄
1x12
I’ve ridden both and since I’m an age group tri guy in my 50’s, not trying to buy multiple bikes, I went 2X system as I’m use to it. But for my weekend fun rides with my bride, I could care less...it is fun either way, and I still over the distance.
Right on! Love hearing how different people use the various tech
@@TheBikeSauce Appreciate your approach to your channel. Yeah, with 8 kids (2 still at home), I picked one bike to do a variety of things. I take delivery of a Specialized Comp Carbon in March-ish....might be more than I need but been paying on it over time so bought as much bike as I could get (following computer purchasing model). These bikes all cost a lot of money when we step up to this level....I do hope that it proves to not be too annoying to take care of and looking forward to riding with my wife (put her in a Felt Broam aluminum option). At our age, we still remember steel bike and shin crushing pedals so all of this tech is amazing.
Again, appreciate your approach. Can definitely relate.
Fond memories of ‘bear claw’ alloy pedals
1x looks better.
That much is undeniable 😀
1x13 is the future....or 1x 14
Nice. I'm still waiting for bCVT (bicycle continuously variable transmission) so we can put the drivetrain debate behind us 😆