song 1: zack hemsey - see what ive become song 2: zack hemsey - redemption song 3: zack hemsey - end of an era song 4: zack hemsey - this is our legacy i hope this helps :)
Congratulations on winning the race again! I'm really pleased to see that going 10 man didn't change what the world already knows, paragon is the best guild around. I really wish you guys the best of luck for the future.
For the first half of this video I just sat here stunned that you got the boss to 75% before the first totem even came up, the amount of dps your team has just blew me away
The fact that there's an additional 150%+ players to coordinate is what makes 25-man harder. Although this sometimes get misbalanced, and makes 25 man easier.
You lose 2 people in 10 man and its all over. In 25 losing two people is like dropping an ice cream on the ground and picking it up a few seconds later.
Most of the 15 people that left did so because they got bored and quit. Paragon decided to go 10 man because they couldn't recruit enough Finnish players. They didn't abandon 15 players or go to 10 man for a better chance at world first.
the song actually describes paragon , paragon became the best in the world , they redeemed themselves by killing heroic madness , end of an era , they no longer raid 25 man , they raid 10 man so that theyre legacy lives on.
There's no debate, if you have done both 10/25, 25 mans just seem harder. Harder to find 25 good raiders, harder to keep them on the same page, 1 person can still wipe you on heroic fights, the first boss this expansion on 10 man is significantly easier as well. Its still a nice achievement, they are by far the best guild and would still most likely dominate 25 man race as well.
What point is that? he summed up a decent answer to an overused excuse by 25 mans. "We struggle to find 25 exceptional players, so we always carry people. That makes 25s harder". No it doesn't it means their guilds are bad. If you don't want to carry people, find better players or go 10 man where you don't need to. Stone guards, gara'jal, will of the emporer, all harder on 10 heroic.
statistics strongly point to players who have a very high skill level preferring to play 25 person content over 10 person content. As to which is harder, who knows except for the people who complete the raids in BOTH formats and can actually compare. Considering the caliber of these Paragon players doing it on 10 suggests that it isn't about the raid size but PLAYERS, it's not a determination of difficulty. Higher skilled players prefer 25 over 10, this is why you see all 25s on progression.
This video shows exactly what's missing in 10 man progression in this game... It's the feeling running against time. That's what I love about raiding in wow. Look at that enrage timer, 14 sec left -.- lol Not saying 10 man is easier or anything, it's just they can make those things a bit tighter to let 10 man raiders feel the excitement too. It wouldn't affect the difficulty anyway.
I dont get why people are so upset about them being 10man, 10man is even more difficult, look at the variety of classes they have, it is alot harder to get progression kills as a 10man as in some raids you don't have buffs. Or even heroism/bloodlust. Stop being jealous and enjoy what is here.
Yes, these guys are awesome! But if you guys knew what were going on you would know that half way through the fight recount is completely useless because everyone switches realms to the "Spirit Realm" and if you are spam healed you receive a buff that increases your Damage by I'm guessing with their healing around 30-35% hence the OP damage :)
Im not dissing Paragon in any part, I'm sure they would even get world first in 25 man. Like they did with alot of other content; Talking Lich King, Ragnaros yeah.. I admire Paragon
That is one of the best WoW videos i have seen in a long time. Paragon is my #1 and have been since TBC. I don't care what kind of raid it was, just the pure skills that are shown is what i care about. I do wonder why there is no Shaman or Mages for there Haste buff? But keep it up and you will keep having tons of fans.
Now you can figure out which mode is easier when Paragon cleared MV heroic on 10 man yesterday before any of the 25 man guilds. Yesterday only paragon was 6/6, today the first 4 guilds are. :P
How many of these other 10m guilds raided non stop since HC mode activated and have several other World First kills with the same 10 players who all know each other?
It kind of does. Raid composition is a crutial part about every encounter. And, it is easier to find 10 great players than it is to find 25 great players. That being said, you can't really compare 10's to 25's anyway. It's just way too much difference. Even though they share the same lockout.
Windsong was bugged and was not working properly, more specifically it would not proc off dots and the proc rate from direct damage was extremely low for casters. Power torrent was the next best option.
1. DREAM Paragon (10) 2. Method (25) 3. Envy (25) 4. vodka (25) 5. Blood Legion (25) 6. Apex (25) 7. Экзорсус (25) 8. Wraith (25) 9. Why Me (25) 10. Pulse (25) and then the next 10m 11. Интервенция (10) I wouldnt say 10 is easier. Its just easier to get gear for everyone with 2 or more different normal clears and then merge best geared. Which I think was decided very carefully. 10 dedicated players. NICE GOING!
@FPSIceraven They got world first heroic clear on mogu'shan vaults, all the Druids are different specs and they're now officially a 10 man guild, please explain why that doesn't count?
I never claimed it was easy in the first place, but it's A LOT harder to gear up 25 people than 10. Setups, yeah, but it's all about swapping members in 10man, in 25man you most likely have to stick with the 25 members you have. Seriously man, 28 kills and no shield? Damn that's unlucky lol. The normal shield dropped all the time for us lol, wasn't it like a 20% droprate or something? The HC one only dropped a couple times tho.
People claiming 10 man is easier, explain me why they're the only guild that has cleared whole raid on 10hc. There's no competition because they're way way ahead of everyone.
Literally *the* wall in 10 man heroic, thought to be undoable without exploits, Paragon goes in and makes it look like a joke. There's a reason this is the first video they published of this tier.
But if the top 25 man guilds would take their 10 best players and go 10 man(like Paragon), they would absolutely DESTROY 10 man raids(which Paragon has demonstrated for us)
I doubt thats because of 10m, its more because of the player's skill and involved theorycrafting here. Keep in mind they picked the 10 best players from their 25m roster. If Garajal HC were any tighter, many, many world caliber guilds wouldnt have beaten it before the nerf.
I know this is harder on 10M but damn, watching Paragon 10M isn't as amazing was watching them 25M. Wish they'd recruit outside of Finnish players too!
Yes indeed finding 25 exeptionally good players is more difficult than finding 10 exeptionally good players BUT the bosses themselves arent always easier on 10 man.
Easier to get gear? I'm the who should ask you, do you even raid? For exemple, i spent 25h kills of baleroc to get heroic shield and than, after, in Dragon Soul, i killed Blackhorn Heroic 28 times and haven't seen the shield drop. No even in the normal mode kill. You're right about competent players and coordination, but GEAR and SETUP always make 10man a challenge.
Yeah, it's kind of hard to gear 25 man up, all though the drop rate, in terms, is about the same. The difference is that on 25 the chance of dropping something that will be used is higher, as u have more ppl to use and the loot table is "wider" ( if i could put this way ). This stup about setup is true, but u have to remember that ppl don't want stay on replace 4ever. For exemple, my group killed rag H back pre-nerf withou Brez, cause we didn't have anyone to do it. Yeah, no damn shield... hehe
10 mans could be 100 times harder than 25 mans but I'll still be more impressed with the larger group. Now from my own experience 10 mans are much easier, but it has nothing to do with the content. I attribute this to two key factors: 1) I was able to be much pickier with my 10 man group and therefore had better players 2) The same people played much better in a smaller group (less stupid deaths... etc). Which I think is due to "Diffusion of Responsibility" (Google it)
yep, 1x 10 man guild is hardcore(paragon), the other 2 arent. Its the start of the expansion, so all the guilds on that list were at same starting position. Yet paragon wiped their asses with the other guilds, 25 man and 10 man alike. :S
its still not fiction that its harder to organize and coordinate a 25 man raid than a 10. That is why 10 man is considered easier. Its much harder to coordinate a large grp of different people than a small grp. Imagine leading and organizing a 40 man raid grp :P thats what people did in vanilla! 10 man difficulties are for example when one persons dps is already like 20% of the whole raids dps, so if he fails its bigger issue for the team.
Not agree...10hm is easier than 25hm like usual. It doesn't mean that paragon is a bad guild or something like...They used to be the best 25hm guild in the world during 2years
or the logic is that 10 man guilds are mostly casual. Ive never heard any big guilds such as vodka, method, blood legion, paragon or ensidia be 10 man guilds. Or any 10 man guilds that are famous for their progress as much as these are.
Some fights are easier on 10, some are on 25. But you cant just say that getting a world first in 10man is a joke or something that shouldnt be taken seriously.
Not true. Certain fights would be harder on one difficulty than the other simply due to mechanics. An example would be heroic hagara and heroic ultraxion in DS. Hagara heroic was easier on 25, but harder on 10, while Ultraxion heroic was easier on 10, but harder on heroic.
since pandaria most of the pre-hc loot is personal anyway, so its pretty much a matter of luck on the world bosses and the elder charms I myself haven't got a single item yet and I am raiding 10man
did you look on the rankings? there is only 4 guild in the top25 with 10 mans. And you wont tell me that there is no other 10 man HARDCORE guild beside Paragon that is going for world firsts. On 10 man if 1 healer dies then its usualy 50% of your healing gone when using 2 healers to get that extra 1 dps. On 25 man you get 5-6 healers when 1 dies then it doesnt rly matter that much.
We miss you, Paragon. The game isn't the same without you
It really isnt..
song 1: zack hemsey - see what ive become
song 2: zack hemsey - redemption
song 3: zack hemsey - end of an era
song 4: zack hemsey - this is our legacy
i hope this helps :)
The last song is Zack Hemsey - End of an Era, for those wondering :)
I miss the boss monologues and I miss the names of these awesome songs!
But you're doing a great job.
Thanks for all of your videos!
Congratulations on winning the race again! I'm really pleased to see that going 10 man didn't change what the world already knows, paragon is the best guild around. I really wish you guys the best of luck for the future.
Thanks for sharing so soon. I'm glad to see there's no bug/exploit involved and it's "only" rather tight tuned.
Remember, Paragon is the guild that wrote the article on 10 mans being easier than 25 mans.
For the first half of this video I just sat here stunned that you got the boss to 75% before the first totem even came up, the amount of dps your team has just blew me away
The fact that it takes more effort to find 25 exeptionally good players doesnt make the encounters any harder.
just in case anyone wants to know
song 1: zack hemsey - see what ive become
song 2: zack hemsey - redemption
sorry but i couldnt find the third song.
no one should comment this piece of art.. the vid speak for itself.
Some other people have also clarified this, but BM hunters have a core hound pet that gives the same Bloodlust buff.
Maybe the hotfix?
"The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%."
The fact that there's an additional 150%+ players to coordinate is what makes 25-man harder. Although this sometimes get misbalanced, and makes 25 man easier.
In 25 man, you were Monsters, now you're gods
What is the name of the last song?
Great kill with great music as always...
End of an Era - Zack Hemsey
No BL is a huge sacrifice. I'd make bloody well sure I got one every time. Can't even imagine a dps phase without it :)
You lose 2 people in 10 man and its all over. In 25 losing two people is like dropping an ice cream on the ground and picking it up a few seconds later.
Likely:
Xperl (Healthbars etc)
Quartz (Buffbars and Castbar)
BalancePowerTracker
Grid (Raid-Ui)
Recount (Dmg)
Omen (Threatmeter)
TidyPlates (Nameplates)
MiksScrollingBattleText (MSBT - scrolling battle text)
This is why, Paragon is number one, because of a beast soundtrack.
Paragon members said it's logistically easier, which is blatantly obvious. Individual skill actually matters a lot more in 10 man.
Most of the 15 people that left did so because they got bored and quit. Paragon decided to go 10 man because they couldn't recruit enough Finnish players. They didn't abandon 15 players or go to 10 man for a better chance at world first.
man i wish our guild was this good and organized paragon makes it look like a cake walk,for us its like rocket science lmao
the song actually describes paragon , paragon became the best in the world , they redeemed themselves by killing heroic madness , end of an era , they no longer raid 25 man , they raid 10 man so that theyre legacy lives on.
There are a few songs in this video, at what time is the one you're after?
There's no debate, if you have done both 10/25, 25 mans just seem harder. Harder to find 25 good raiders, harder to keep them on the same page, 1 person can still wipe you on heroic fights, the first boss this expansion on 10 man is significantly easier as well. Its still a nice achievement, they are by far the best guild and would still most likely dominate 25 man race as well.
What point is that? he summed up a decent answer to an overused excuse by 25 mans. "We struggle to find 25 exceptional players, so we always carry people. That makes 25s harder". No it doesn't it means their guilds are bad. If you don't want to carry people, find better players or go 10 man where you don't need to. Stone guards, gara'jal, will of the emporer, all harder on 10 heroic.
statistics strongly point to players who have a very high skill level preferring to play 25 person content over 10 person content. As to which is harder, who knows except for the people who complete the raids in BOTH formats and can actually compare. Considering the caliber of these Paragon players doing it on 10 suggests that it isn't about the raid size but PLAYERS, it's not a determination of difficulty. Higher skilled players prefer 25 over 10, this is why you see all 25s on progression.
Man, that ending gave me chills.
See what I've become - Zack Hemsey
What is the name of this brutal song. I searched him and couldn't find it
This video shows exactly what's missing in 10 man progression in this game... It's the feeling running against time. That's what I love about raiding in wow. Look at that enrage timer, 14 sec left -.- lol
Not saying 10 man is easier or anything, it's just they can make those things a bit tighter to let 10 man raiders feel the excitement too. It wouldn't affect the difficulty anyway.
I dont get why people are so upset about them being 10man, 10man is even more difficult, look at the variety of classes they have, it is alot harder to get progression kills as a 10man as in some raids you don't have buffs. Or even heroism/bloodlust. Stop being jealous and enjoy what is here.
This is basically Paragon shitting on every other 10 man guild and showing how shit they are.
Yes, these guys are awesome! But if you guys knew what were going on you would know that half way through the fight recount is completely useless because everyone switches realms to the "Spirit Realm" and if you are spam healed you receive a buff that increases your Damage by I'm guessing with their healing around 30-35% hence the OP damage :)
Im not dissing Paragon in any part, I'm sure they would even get world first in 25 man. Like they did with alot of other content; Talking Lich King, Ragnaros yeah.. I admire Paragon
That is one of the best WoW videos i have seen in a long time.
Paragon is my #1 and have been since TBC.
I don't care what kind of raid it was, just the pure skills that are shown is what i care about.
I do wonder why there is no Shaman or Mages for there Haste buff?
But keep it up and you will keep having tons of fans.
yes at the time power torrent was may more effective for boomkins than windsong and jade serpent wasnt out yet
Now you can figure out which mode is easier when Paragon cleared MV heroic on 10 man yesterday before any of the 25 man guilds.
Yesterday only paragon was 6/6, today the first 4 guilds are. :P
How many of these other 10m guilds raided non stop since HC mode activated and have several other World First kills with the same 10 players who all know each other?
The song name is "See What I've Become" (10 man) ;)
It kind of does.
Raid composition is a crutial part about every encounter. And, it is easier to find 10 great players than it is to find 25 great players.
That being said, you can't really compare 10's to 25's anyway. It's just way too much difference. Even though they share the same lockout.
Windsong was bugged and was not working properly, more specifically it would not proc off dots and the proc rate from direct damage was extremely low for casters. Power torrent was the next best option.
It's good to see Paragon in action again
1. DREAM Paragon (10)
2. Method (25)
3. Envy (25)
4. vodka (25)
5. Blood Legion (25)
6. Apex (25)
7. Экзорсус (25)
8. Wraith (25)
9. Why Me (25)
10. Pulse (25)
and then the next 10m
11. Интервенция (10)
I wouldnt say 10 is easier. Its just easier to get gear for everyone with 2 or more different normal clears and then merge best geared. Which I think was decided very carefully. 10 dedicated players. NICE GOING!
so epic can't wait for rest of videos
@FPSIceraven They got world first heroic clear on mogu'shan vaults, all the Druids are different specs and they're now officially a 10 man guild, please explain why that doesn't count?
10man kill videos will never be as epic as 25man imo, I'm still cheering for paragon getting that world first Sha of Fear regardless
I never claimed it was easy in the first place, but it's A LOT harder to gear up 25 people than 10. Setups, yeah, but it's all about swapping members in 10man, in 25man you most likely have to stick with the 25 members you have.
Seriously man, 28 kills and no shield? Damn that's unlucky lol. The normal shield dropped all the time for us lol, wasn't it like a 20% droprate or something? The HC one only dropped a couple times tho.
wait just a minute, if they've got 2 priests, 2 paladins, 3 druids, a warlock and a warrior, how do they lust?
People claiming 10 man is easier, explain me why they're the only guild that has cleared whole raid on 10hc. There's no competition because they're way way ahead of everyone.
That explains why only two other 10m Guilds have 3/6HC and when Paragon got 6/6HC there was only 2/6HC in 10mans
Literally *the* wall in 10 man heroic, thought to be undoable without exploits, Paragon goes in and makes it look like a joke. There's a reason this is the first video they published of this tier.
This was early in the expansion when you couldn't get 10 sha crystals for all of your players.
But if the top 25 man guilds would take their 10 best players and go 10 man(like Paragon), they would absolutely DESTROY 10 man raids(which Paragon has demonstrated for us)
How do you mute all sounds but boss voices?
A lot of Paragon members left because of getting tired of WoW. So now Paragon is 10 man because of lack of people.
I doubt thats because of 10m, its more because of the player's skill and involved theorycrafting here. Keep in mind they picked the 10 best players from their 25m roster.
If Garajal HC were any tighter, many, many world caliber guilds wouldnt have beaten it before the nerf.
They do have a bloodlust, they have Ancient Hysteria from the hunter's pet
I know this is harder on 10M but damn, watching Paragon 10M isn't as amazing was watching them 25M. Wish they'd recruit outside of Finnish players too!
Aaaaah youtube why you no browse in 1080p?! :(
A wild Paragon video appears!
because the raid damage that ppl take in this video is miniscule compared to the 200k's on 25 man. have u even attempted 10 or 25 ?
Yes indeed finding 25 exeptionally good players is more difficult than finding 10 exeptionally good players BUT the bosses themselves arent always easier on 10 man.
Sejta's a BEAST!!!!!
you too Lappe!!
If they made it any tighter it would have taken months for other guilds to kill it. This fight was still really hard during the first few weeks.
Easier to get gear? I'm the who should ask you, do you even raid?
For exemple, i spent 25h kills of baleroc to get heroic shield and than, after, in Dragon Soul, i killed Blackhorn Heroic 28 times and haven't seen the shield drop. No even in the normal mode kill.
You're right about competent players and coordination, but GEAR and SETUP always make 10man a challenge.
Yeah, it's kind of hard to gear 25 man up, all though the drop rate, in terms, is about the same. The difference is that on 25 the chance of dropping something that will be used is higher, as u have more ppl to use and the loot table is "wider" ( if i could put this way ). This stup about setup is true, but u have to remember that ppl don't want stay on replace 4ever. For exemple, my group killed rag H back pre-nerf withou Brez, cause we didn't have anyone to do it.
Yeah, no damn shield... hehe
whats the difference between, 1080p and original
Castbar is an addon called Castbars, all others are correct. Also Bigwigs for boss warnings.
10 mans could be 100 times harder than 25 mans but I'll still be more impressed with the larger group.
Now from my own experience 10 mans are much easier, but it has nothing to do with the content. I attribute this to two key factors:
1) I was able to be much pickier with my 10 man group and therefore had better players
2) The same people played much better in a smaller group (less stupid deaths... etc). Which I think is due to "Diffusion of Responsibility" (Google it)
I actually watch the Paragon videos for the music.
yep, 1x 10 man guild is hardcore(paragon), the other 2 arent.
Its the start of the expansion, so all the guilds on that list were at same starting position. Yet paragon wiped their asses with the other guilds, 25 man and 10 man alike. :S
It was either 10m or nothing. What would you have done?
its still not fiction that its harder to organize and coordinate a 25 man raid than a 10.
That is why 10 man is considered easier. Its much harder to coordinate a large grp of different people than a small grp. Imagine leading and organizing a 40 man raid grp :P thats what people did in vanilla! 10 man difficulties are for example when one persons dps is already like 20% of the whole raids dps, so if he fails its bigger issue for the team.
Not agree...10hm is easier than 25hm like usual.
It doesn't mean that paragon is a bad guild or something like...They used to be the best 25hm guild in the world during 2years
your'e confusing nameplates with unit frames.. :) i mean the ones that u can disable by pressing V ingame.. ukno? :D
Lappe is a Moonkin(g)
or the logic is that 10 man guilds are mostly casual. Ive never heard any big guilds such as vodka, method, blood legion, paragon or ensidia be 10 man guilds. Or any 10 man guilds that are famous for their progress as much as these are.
Some fights are easier on 10, some are on 25. But you cant just say that getting a world first in 10man is a joke or something that shouldnt be taken seriously.
whats the last song called?
Not true. Certain fights would be harder on one difficulty than the other simply due to mechanics. An example would be heroic hagara and heroic ultraxion in DS. Hagara heroic was easier on 25, but harder on 10, while Ultraxion heroic was easier on 10, but harder on heroic.
since pandaria most of the pre-hc loot is personal anyway, so its pretty much a matter of luck on the world bosses and the elder charms
I myself haven't got a single item yet and I am raiding 10man
You also can afford 3 mistakes in 25man, whereas 1 in 10man.
Forgett Hanz Zimmer, forget Audiomachine the new world generation is comeing...
Zack Hemsey
If they doesnt have enough people then they dont. They dominated 25 mans for years and now they are dominating 10 mans aswell!
2 if you count CR, I don't know how many CR's you get in 25 man.
Not to mention you can get an extra healer and lose 1 DPS without a problem...
I do not understand how much damage Lappé made with small equipment 0_o
How can Sejta go up to 150k dps with heart of the wild? Our Tank can't get higher than 60-70k DPS.
Best music since Lich King!
If 10 man is easier please explain why of the top 15 world guilds on wowprogress atm, 14 of them are 25 man?
i don't get it, how is it possible as resto druid to deal that much damage? he's dealing over 100k dps..
What I wouldn't give to see these fights from Oixte's PoV.
You obviously didnt try this on both 10 and 25.
But to have those 25 people have the same amount of coordination needed does make it a little bit harder. Still good job Dream Paragon. :D
can someone tell me the name of the addon for the nameplates?
Whats the first Song ?! :O
did you look on the rankings? there is only 4 guild in the top25 with 10 mans. And you wont tell me that there is no other 10 man HARDCORE guild beside Paragon that is going for world firsts. On 10 man if 1 healer dies then its usualy 50% of your healing gone when using 2 healers to get that extra 1 dps. On 25 man you get 5-6 healers when 1 dies then it doesnt rly matter that much.
Arh, kewl. Did not know that. Thanks.