as Gg is saying it very much fits the video in such a way that it took me checking it 2 times to realise that was the mistake. Thanks fo a great video.
It’s fine, man. I didn’t catch it at first watch, it doesn’t disrupt the flow of the video, and it works with the topic - so it’s really no harm, no foul! Let’s call it a happy accident, Bob Ross style. P.s. I just thought of this while typing “Bob Ross,” but speaking of a completely different Ross with a VERY different screen presence, could you do a video on the Hulk in EMH?
The way I saw this split between superheroics and pacifism in Hank is that he became a superhero because Jan wanted to be one. He created a superhero identify out of his tech to indulge in her fantasy, hoping she'd either get bored of it or come around to his way of thinking. Then the Avengers formed, and I think he saw it more for the scientific collaborations than the superheroics.
I’d also like to point out that the suit was likely designed to further his research; the combat capabilities were likely an unintended function. Actually being the same size as ants and being able to communicate with them probably opens the door to many different kinds of experiments.
I’ll try to not make this too long. Ah, Hank Pym, Marvel’s black sheep. Nowadays, the writers are more or less embarrassed by his character, and this has become a more recurring decision as what to do with Pym’s character. Even the MCU opted the other route, to simply skim past all the comic drama that the writers created ago, and transform Hank into an aged mentor for Scott Lang, and with the creative “decision” to have Hank not be a founding member of the Avengers or the Creator of Ultron. I personally was disappointed by the change, and not because “Scott was the more relatable protagonist”, but because they weren’t willing to give Hank’s character another chance, as if his character was tainted with what he did in the comics. And I’m excusing any of the character’s actions in the comics, but I am saying that the *real* reason Hank’ personality is so messed up is because the writers can’t decide whether Pym is a good guy, a conflicted scientist, a arrogant know-it-all, or a troubled superhero with a bipolar disorder. Watching EMH made me realize that the reason that version of Hank was the best one was because not only were the writers the same and consistent, but they were willing to give Hank’s comic story a do-over a second chance, probably the last one we’ll ever see.
Hank’s actions in the comics weren’t his own. If you read the original script it says that Hank throws his hands in the air in frustration, accidentally hitting Janet in the process. I don’t think it’s fair that so many people are taking their anger out on Hank over the fact that an artist disobeyed orders.
In the episode is clear that Cap and Ironman see what Hank has become and regret not having showed appreciation for his original persona. They accept Yellow jacket in the team just because Jan ask them to.
The way i saw Hank downfall was meant to show well Hank thought the avengers were like him even know they aren't him and try to force his believes and standard onto theme well failing to see and realize that you can't force your views onto people as you need to do it in baby steps and that a pacifist nature can't always fix things and that you can't make the world a better place as people need to see and realize their own screw ups as Hank did most of his actions to himself
Well if it wasn't for this very spectacular cartoon I won't even be as big of an Ant Man fan as I am now or even be aware of the impact of his character for years to come really......
So glad to see Hank get his due. Ever since some infamous comic panels, writers have run his name through the dirt, but his intentions and nobility in this show just highlights his flaws and the flaws of the superhero justice cycle brilliantly. Great videos!
@@juanig4198 he slapped Janet in an old Avengers issue. For context he was having a mental breakdown and the writer said he wrote it as an accidental hit, but nevertheless it was drawn as intentional and since then Marvel hasnt really let him move on.
To your point of the hypocrisy of the super suit, Hank's Ant Man suit is as much his lab coat as his white one is. It's a tool; one that can be used for both the pursuit of science and self defense. In Hank's case, I think he would call himself more of a costumed adventurer like the Fantastic Four than a superhero
Hank Pym is one of my favorite characters in all of Marvel and it's mostly due to this show. He's a pacifist in a world of violence and I love it. Granted I love him even more as Yellowjacket but that's more because he's so funny (Look to the Kree bomb incident to see). It's a disappointment nobody will give him a chance anymore all because he hit Janet once. News flash normies, Peter hit MJ during the Clone Saga and you don't see him getting this treatment. GIVE HANK A CHANCE
And even worse, the time he hit Janet was meant to be an accident. He got angry and turned while gesturing with his arm, accidentally hitting Janet. And so now he’s just a wife beater. Why can’t we get better Hank Pym stuff?
It’s just like the time Sally Acorn smacked Sonic the Hedgehog across the face in the old Archie Comics in an OOC manner in a badly written comic but a lot of her detractors uses that scene as an excuse to depict her as a bitch in their fanfiction and remember her for that while forgiving Fiona Fox whom with a smirk did the exact same thing to Tails who’d be a 12 old child or 8 year old child depending on the media.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ I've been a Pym fan since 1976-77. Reading 1966's Avengers #32 as a back issue, and later, his mental breakdown in Avengers #161-162, made me a fan of the character. I don't buy Shooter's account blaming artist Bob Hall for the infamous backhand and black eye for reasons I go into in another comment above. Given Shooter's last-minute insistence that the endings of Avengers #200 (Ms. Marvel goes off to Limbo with her rapist) and X-Men #137 (the Death of Phoenix) be immediately rewritten and redrawn as they were within days of being sent to the printers, his account smacks even more as a retcon of events to dodge responsibility for a controversial creative decision.
“After all, who’d watch Ant Man counseling supervillains and their reintegration into society for 20 minutes a pop?” Me. I would. That sounds amazing. Can we make this happen?
The problem with his premise is that he thinks everyone one can be rehabilitated. No, some ppl are just evil and want to see the world burn, heck some want to be the matches. His ideals can't compete with his reality.
When you brought up the fact that the Pym particles messes Hank up mentally, it makes you wonder if Janet isn’t going through something similar. Could’ve been a nice episode idea. I got this idea after noticing that Janet, as the series went on, grew more aggressive. This can be from her battle experience but it’s a penny for our thoughts.
Usually the idea is that only Hank suffers the mental disorders from use of the Pym Particles. Pym created a product that in all the notable cases seen, he is one of the two humans less compatible with it. He can use it, but he really shouldn't since at least the early versions damaged his health. A case where the creator is the least fit to use their creation.
I think you can explain it in the show that Hank altered Jan's DNA, so that her body produces the particles naturally (we don't see a huge burst of Pym particles when she transforms, and doesn't need a suit), Where as he is constantly injecting Pym particles into his body
It's pretty rare to see a pacifist superhero turning into a rude anti-hero. Yellow Jacket is a huge asshole & when I watched Earth's Mightiest Heroes, made me wish the old Hank Pym came back. I think Scott Lang's Ant-Man would have fully joined The Avengers team, if Season 3 wasn't cancelled.
There is this sort of duality with almost every superhero; at a surface level, it's their superhero persona and civilian identity, but that's only skin deep, as is often proved in EMH, especially with Hank Pym. Tony is all too ready to get in and fight things out; this mostly comes from his background as an arms developer and merchant, Tony knows just how violent some people can be and there are just some people that only seem to respond to being approached with force, so he goes out to meet these challenges as Iron Man, a mechanized suit of armor that is basically a mobile weapons' platform; Captain America was a soldier back during the second world war, conflict and fighting are baked into who he is but he still tries to find more peaceful approaches to problems when he sees the opportunity to do so, this mostly because he believes in the inherent good in people, he is an innately good person and believes that everyone just needs to the right sort of guidance to get to being a good person as well, his belief in people and pushing your body to the limit when needed often comes into conflict with Tony since Tony puts more faith in technology and his technical know-how to build that better solution if it doesn't exist or improve upon when it does exist; Thor is a warrior through and through, which is probably why he makes many of his jests at Steve as a brother in arms, to Thor Captain America is seeking to protect others just as he is but within the confines of being a mortal of our world; Wasp masks her insecurities behind her childish behavior and party girl persona, regardless of whether she is in her superhero persona or civilian persona, the only time she thought she could really be herself with all of that laid bare was with Hank, she clearly cared about him and Hank hid his love for her behind his mountains of work because of his own insecurities and belief that Janet deserved someone better than him. Hulk is a literal manifestation of Bruce Banner's rage and insecurities; the Hulk is everything Bruce isn't, powerful and confident, while also projecting the anger and pain Bruce has kept bottled up almost his entire life because of his own insecurities and horrible background. In contrast, the Hulk of EMH is definitely more articulate and cognitive; it's apparent this is a bit of newer development. It's best exemplified in the interactions Hulk and Banner have early on in the series; it took Banner, who knows how long to convince the Hulk to go and help the team that later became the Avengers. He even approves of the name when Wasp suggests it. Still, Hulk has his own insecurities, which are made all too indicated when his first fight with the Avengers, which was provoked by the Enchantress feeding into those insecurities, happens. Should a season 3 of EMH come to pass, and some of us are still praying cand still be a possibility, it would be nice to see Hank get to a more healthy space but still realize that his preferred approach will not always be an option, some people just want to lash out and be violent regardless of help they get. While I think it would be interesting to see Hank getting back into that healthier headspace, either as the primary focus of an episode or fragments of several episodes, and get back into his attempts at using therapy to rehabilitate villains by donning a new costume reminiscent of the Ant-Man outfit in a new version of The Big House but still pulling from other personas he has had in his publishing history. I realize it might put him to almost where we started with him in the series but I think that's kind of the point, sometimes we get back to similar places we were before on our journey to better ourselves, the only real difference is the experiences between where you were and where you are at that moment so you can hopefully make better-informed decisions moving forward.
Hank Pym/Ant Man is my favorite civilian/superhero dichotomy, but I’d say Peter Parker/Spider-Man is a very, very close second. Peter Parker gains the confidence all shy nerds wish they had when he puts on the mask, and it makes for such an interesting dynamic.
@@antonissa8345 In the comics, Wasp is insecure about her abilities as a hero due to having weaker powerset/skillset in comparison to several of the Avengers. - The series made a reference about it when Abomination called her the weakest Avenger in S1. - S2 saw Janet asking Hank if he would amplify her powerset. In this case, is less about Janet considering herself weak and more about being thrilled to get a power-up
EMH's Hank Pym was My first favorite super-hero and I wish people were willing to put in the work to write him like that again but now they just fall back on "crabby mentor" or "washed up geezer" instead of a really compelling character
To be perfectly fair, Edgar Wright, who was the scriptwriter for Ant Man, admitted that he had a bias for Scott Lang's Ant Man, as he had been Ant Man for the longest time.
@@rudranshu65sengupta14That's fine and all, I respect his choice on Scott Lang Ant-Man but this was a missed opportunity to make an Ant-Man film before The Avengers. If Hank and Janet had their own film before, this would have been at least pleasant since after 2012, Hank could have struggled with his mental health, view on his pacifism, and wondering if rehabilitation is useless and have a metal breakdown then become Yellowjacket but much more violent. He could have been like this: "Forget that coward Ant-Man, now they'll all have to deal with Yellowjacket."
Avengers EMH really needs more love. Its unlike any Marvel adaptation to date. The story stayed fairly true to comics whilst adapting these characters and plot lines in an approachable manner, and improving upon the writing in many cases. Hank was not just done again, where most have opted to completely skip his character because of a single comic book panel, but given a more consistent character arc and a far more sympathetic character. Similar to how Kang was made really interesting and an actual threat. Really it kills me that this show got canceled. Marvel was THIS close to a BTAS and DCAU. Also just imagine if mainstream comics took notes from EMH instead that one time Disney tried to strip everything bare and dumb it down to fit comics to the MCU.
In all honesty, I felt sorry for Hank Pym in the Avengers earth's mightiest heroes cartoon series. He was a scientist, superhero, and pacifist who wanted to help people but circumstances keep pushing him to go against what he believes in. Even the avengers, his friends and teammates took him for granted and didn't appreciate him for who he is. This is especially true for Janet Van Dyne, who I believe is the most responsible for the damage to Hank's psyche, next to Ultron anyway. Just look at the scene when Hank quits the avengers. Janet not only blamed Hank for Hawkeye getting injured when all Hank wanted to do was settle things as peacefully as possible, but Janet didn't even respect Hank's pacifism. Between that and the avengers berating Hank for his pacifism, it's no wonder he snapped and quit. Hank was in the right to quit, and all Janet could think about was how she didn't want him to quit rather than see Hank's side of things. Janet constantly does this. Even when Hank Pym became yellowjacket, she only wanted him back on the team for her own sake, not even considering Hank or how he feels. It's such a shame that the series ended with Hank still having a severely deteriorated psyche and his issues not fully resolved. Hank Pym deserved better than what he got.
That kinda the point Hank put himself and his team to impossible standers As Hank thought he could help the villains even know most of theme are to far gone and the avengers know they cant pull back punches in case if anything goes wrong showing Hank did most of this to himself and not admitting no one is like him and you cant always see the world you want it to much like Diane from bojack and steven in steven universe
@@comicbookreviewer4856 except the problem with that is when the ep he quit he was actully getting thru the whole ordeal that gotten hawlkguy injured was because the team were to violent. plus the base belief hank believs is right that beating them is not gonna solve anything
Yeah talk about humbleness, hank makes cap look abit egotistical even tho cap really isn’t. Man, what a well written guy hank is… he should’ve settled for a much better girl. He’s amazing, great analysis bro
I disagree that Janet was THE PROBLEM so much as their relationship was. They were both idealists moving in completely opposite direction and neither entirely tuned to reality. Janet believing fighting crime and putting criminals in jail was the best way to protect law abiding citizens. Hank seeing the criminals themselves as victims either of society or their own mental health or circumstance or whatever because everyone is an individual and has a massively different story that leads to the choices they made. Hank sees his life purpose as helping criminals and other people to see their full potential and discover ways to use their abilities and skills to help others. Janet sees herself as the one helping by beating down those that would abuse power. Now to throw my bias out there, I fully agree with Hank in EMH. The greatest deterrent to crime is rehabilitation and it also leads to the most positive outcome where there aren’t just less criminals, but more productive members of society looking to help. That said I do think there’s a limit where realistically criminals are just as human as the rest of us, which is to say massively flawed and difficult to change after their developmental phase as ended (usually around 25ish). Janet is the ONLY member of the Avengers in EMH that was ALWAYS an avenger. From start to end. I think that dedication deserves saying. She also did love Hank as he did her. Caring about his mental health and much later on being a lot more compromising (telling him in the Yellow Jacket episode she was fine with him not coming back to the avengers but just wanted him to not be alone for his health). I think her biggest flaw was her more simple mindset and Hank’s was his more compromising attitude. It was Jane that pushed him out of his comfort zone and to do things more “her way”. While Hank himself was trying to stay true to his beliefs and values and please Jan. It wasn’t until much later on when Janet saw how far she pushed him that she showed some reflection and became more compromising as well. I think their relationship in EMH is so well written and interesting. You could make a series about it alone. I wish they had this level of writing in Avengers United they stand. They’re literally “opposites attract” but far more real and less Hollywood in that relationships of two people who love each other but move in completely opposite directions on different wavelengths can be kinda really toxic at times. I really wanted to see how their relationship developed even further on as Janet dealt with Yellow Jacket and a persona that was essentially created to please her. To very much see her innocent pushing of Hank to something he didn’t want and unfortunate circumstances and his own perceived failure created. This show really could have benefited from mental health break episodes (similar to Young Justice), where characters just got room to breathe and talk between each other. Man this is bringing back memories. Its when I think about EMH that I start to loathe the MCU again. Honestly, I don’t give a crap that something I don’t like (the MCU) is popular. Its when said popular thing is taken too far and tramples over all versatility and variety in a franchise in an attempt to greedily milk it. EMH getting canceled for MCU tie in Assemble is disgusting and insulting. Same goes with what they tried to do with the comics and how they butchered the games like Marvel vs Capcom to revolve literally everything Marvel over the MCU.
To me, Hank fell into the trap of pacifism. I he wanted to stay true to his ideals, then he has to be willing to become the world's punching bag and stay on the sideline, taking no action to support any side of a conflict. If he wants to help others however, then he must pick a side and get involved in the conflict by making continuous compromises. His fall to Yellowjacket can be a result of his repeated compromises to his ideals until he outright betrays them.
To me in a way Hank did it more to himself than he realized as he put himself and his team to impossible standers and thought he could help the villains well failing to realize they are too far gone to be helped and the fact the avengers know they cant hold back punches if anything went wrong and the fact Hank slowly realize no one was like him and ended up falling down the path due to those impossible standers much like steven universe and Diane from bojack horseman as they put things to impossible standers well failing to realize it
If he betrayed his ideals, he’d become a villain. The fact that he’s still a competent teammate and still willing to fight with the Avengers proves he still believes in helping people
I feel cheated that this show ended before the Avengers could try to address what happened to Hank again. At the end of Yellowjacket they kinda just let it be. That's fine and all, because they had kinda gone through hell and struggle to keep him around so they didn't want to push it at the moment. But the fact that everything was left unresolved and the Avengers kinda just let it be is just depressing. I think that it would be good to see him go into therapy and return to being a normal scientist. Maybe he accepts that sometimes violence is a necessary evil, but it's just not something he wants in his life, and he can be on good terms with the Avengers.
Hank has principles in a world that rejects those principles. Already fragile emotionally, he broke. We all love Cap and Hulk. But Hank resonates as a human more. He's a mental giant, but has empathy and compassion. He's not a cold scientist. Maybe he wants to rehab people because he knew he was in danger of slipping? Adds another layer. The reveal that Ultron was based on his brain patterns... jesus. How can you get past that?
Hank is capable of empathy and compassion, but he's also not able to connect or reconcile the world around him. He seems like the odd man out because he chooses to be. Not unlike Tony in the MCU. I don't recall him ever sitting down with someone like Cap or T'Challa and discussing his problems. They're great listeners and might have some real world insight. Also, if he's doing the rehab thing because he's avoiding his own mental instability, then he should have worked on that first.
Scott Lang is a great character and deserves his place in the MCU, but it’s sad that the MCU let the failings of the comics keep them from doing Hank justice in his own right in the MCU.
I say thank god for that. If they chose Hank Pym, they would have butchered his character as the story went on. (Because of how the original medium was like) So it was better that they went with Scott Lang.
EMH really made me into a Hank Pym fan. He really is a scientist first, hero second. And his mental breakdown was treated with the seriousness a super hero show can afford to those issues. It's sad what his character has become in the comics, Marvel seems to hate him most of the time. And i get that the slap is memorable and all but they never seem to even want to move on from that, seriously it's been decades. It wouldnt even be that bad if it wasnt for the writters both ignoring other heroes doing things as bad or worse, and that he has been trying to make up for all his failures.
Dude I felt for Hank, I don't like to fight but I will if provoked. But the way he felt that he essentially created the evil Ultron and how her just wants to be a science boy.
There's something else the series only touched implicitily. I think part of Hank's contradictory personality is his vindictive/negative side he has on others once he feels wronged/disapointed, and how it takes a toll on him: - There's the hostility with Stark during the early episodes of Season 1 due to a past incident with Stark trying to turn Ultron into a military asset; Hank says about reforming villains, but he was rather caustic with Stark during the "Simon Williams incident". - Hank's continuous stress venting with Ultron and lines about "humans failing as species" biting him in the ass when they played an inspiration in Ultron's corruption. - His violent reaction once Jan and the others are harmed by enemies.
Funny enough. If you don't have cosmic level power or reality warping powers. His ability to send you into the micro verse is almost unbeatable. Hulk? good luck fighting back in the micro verse.
Maybe one day we can see something similar to this in the MCU. Michael Douglass has expressed, to my knowledge, willingness in playing a younger Hank Pym. Hank is a really interesting character, and it’s a shame he didn’t get to finish his arc
Hank is probably my 2nd favourite character in the whole show, so Im really happy that you did an analysis on him! And a really good one at that! My favourite character is Janet, so Im really excited for that analysis.
I could talk about many points of Hank Pym and how he is the best character in the series with the captain, but I think you mentioned something very interesting. Avengers earths migthy's heroes leaves you with many life values that served me as a child, unity, pacifism, second chances, they are values left in a good way without having a vague script, made with a great story, and great reflections that you will not always see in others. series. If I was lucky enough, it is to experience this series jewel, a perfect series for me. -GG
Hmm... this is a really good analysis! However, I'd argue that, even in the "Real World," Hank's philosophy would still be untenable. For these supervillains, many fall into two categories: This is basically their job, or they're clinically insane. For the former, no amount of persuasion or therapy would want to make them give up this life. Take Kang or Baron Struker: They're villains because they want to be. They're selfish, and their goals are what they base their whole life around. It would be difficult, if not downright impossible, to convince them otherwise. For the latter, argument can be made on the implications of that, but Hank's methods wouldn't work due to them not being suited for mental help. And there's a good reason for that. Hank doesn't understand human nature. Even past the "We're all people, and we're all basically good" argument (Which can also be argued back and forth ad nauseum), Hank really doesn't get humans. We see it in his interactions with Jan, and his interactions with other people, with the Avengers. Ultron was created as a *Therapy Robot*, and yet it's mentioned multiple times that he looks creepy. The Big House, while moderately well furnished, puts villains in what amounts to little glass boxes, same as all the other prisons. In addition, Hank may argue for Pacifism, and believe it's the best course of action, but not only are his solutions to the problems of the EHM universe unhelpful, he doesn't seem to understand or consider possibly helpful methods. And let's not forget, no matter what his creed, there's one thing that will cause him to completely drop whatever he's doing and leap into action, with intent to hurt or even kill -- Janet. Without fail, in the show, Hank will regularly betray his moral compass, the safety of the rest of the team, and sound strategy in favor of keeping Jan safe. This is, of course, on top of how he treats her normally (a topic for another time), but for all he talks up his own worldview and snarks at people like Tony for believing otherwise, he's willing to drop it all in an instant to protect Janet. Is it noble? One might be able to say so, but wouldn't it make sense, then, for him to reconsider his base philosophy if he is so easily willing to throw it away? A lack of doing so indicates, to me at least, a lack of self awareness, and a deep rooted hypocrisy that eventually contributes to his mental break.
I appreciate the detailed comment, and I think you’ve made a key point which I didn’t really consider with regard to Hank’s failure to ‘get people’. But I think the point you make about supervillains - that for many, they’re either insane, or it’s their job - could be made about a lot of real-world criminals as well. Do you think switching away from a focus on rehabilitation is the right move for those IRL cases?
That's a bit more of a complex issue, admittedly-- Due, in fact, to the nature of the genre itself, as you mentioned. In the real world, there are other factors that could cause either one of those things I mentioned to change over time, though I can't think of any off the top of my head. My argument was more aimed towards supervillains in general-- Especially the C Tier and above. Take the Serpent Society. I don't know much about them in the comics, but based on the show they seem to be your generic "Take over the world" style antagonists, especially with Viper leading them. If their whole goal is power, and conquest of the world, then they aren't going to *want* to change. Similar thing with someone like Klaue-- His deal is money and control of vibranium, something that can't really be "educated" or whatnot out of him. Since that's what his whole worldview is focused on, it would be very hard to change that. Impossible? Perhaps not. And again, this is the EMH universe, not the real one, where contributing factors and a whole list of underlying things could cause changes. Whatever the case, however, my main point was to illustrate that Hank's view specifically was poorly equipped to deal with these kinds of issues in a practical sense, and his misunderstanding of human nature and poor choices for "rehabilitation" made matters even worse.
@Alexander Capanov that’s actually another thing: Where do the Avengers (and by extension, Hank) stand on that? SHIELD has always been morally gray, so it’s in character for them to support that, but would the Avengers? It would have been neat, if we got a third season, to have that discussed in the planned crossover between the Avengers and Xmen. Would that have caused Hank to rethink his Yellowjacket persona? Heck, I know Cap would find the idea uncomfortable at best and downright odious at worst, and would probably make a comment about HYDRA camps in WW2 (since they avoid using the IRL terminology). I guess the question on that, then, is where do the Avengers draw the line on imprisoning people, even with just cause? Supervillain trials have always been problematic in the marvel universes, with ample opportunity for being broken out and such. And then again, consider someone like Hawkeye. This actually might even be a deeper issue than the surface that’s been scratched…
@Alexander Capanov that would also be a really neat way to bring Hank’s character arc full circle! In the comics, he was on team Iron Man as Yellowjacket, before being revealed as a spy for Cap (and then as a skrull, but that’s not the point). What if, in EMH, he had done a similar thing, except it got to the point where he realized he could no longer condone Tony’s actions, and instead decided to switch to team Cap and begin the transition back towards being a more peaceful character?
I'd like to add that his capacity for diplomacy isn't a bad thing off hand. Convincing the others to listen to Mar-vell is a good example that he is capable of being a good voice of reason; which itself is a valuable addition to any team. That said, its important to recognize that he isn't betraying his moral compass. It's that he sets the bar too high. The fact that even as Yellowjacket he is still an effective teammate and still helps stop the bad guys shows he does care about helping people. The problem is he mentally locked himself into pacifism so much that he snapped because he couldn't reconcile the fact that sometimes talking won't be enough and he shouldn't hate others or himself for not doing so.
thank GOD someone is talking about this show it's so underrated like no one i've met has heard about this show and it's so upsetting ( i also find it funny that alot of people use footage form this show but don't talk about it)
Hank has a history of hitting lows that writers are too uncomfortable to pull him out of, I'm not sure if the comic version ever even outgrew the "wife beater" stigma he used to have.
He has had many great moments after that slap. Problem is writers like Bendis will go out their way to make Hank a monster because of that moment. If only they'd do the same to Peter Parker.
@@Tony-oh Bendis was a good writer in the Ultimate universe. But the things he did in 616, even if popular at the time had a long lasting damage. Wanda hasnt recovered from what he did to her.
@@Tony-oh You leave Peter alone. Marvel beats the shit out of him enough as it is. He's more than payed for the 1 time he hit MJ in the worst Spider-Man story before Sins Past and One More Day came along.
I find it interesting how none of the main Avengers really grasp the concept of pacifism. Iron Man used to make weapons and created the ultimate one, Captain America is a super soldier made to fight in WW2, Thor is warrior god and to be Black Panther, to lead Wakanda you have to beat the current ruler. All of them originated or were created by some of form of violence but Ant-Man was born out of science, to explore the worlds around us and the worlds within them, to better understand creatures that most people view as nuisance. As far as I know in the EMH continuity Ant-Man was never meant to be a weapon but a tool to further scientific research and better human society. Also Ant-Man in EMH was one of my favorite characters if you couldn't tell.
Because the concept of pacifism is unrealistic. It's one thing to want to resolve conflicts without violence, its another to deny violence outright. Mr. Fantastic and his team do all the science and exploration stuff, but he doesn't shy away from conflict if necessary. If he can solve it with his brain, he'll do it; but if he has to get physical he will. Hank's problems stem from himself, and while I agree the others might have been a little hard on him, they never forced him to do anything and genuinely liked having him around.
I love how some of the villains in the yellowjacket episode actually run in fear, because some people cant be stopped by peaceful reasoning, and that was why hanks pacifist methods ultimately didnt work. the second they realize that there are serious consequences they stop and run
It was most definitely Hanks pacifism and enthusiasm that made me love him as an Avenger, it made him so different from everyone else, and as I got older I found myself agreeing with his methods and philosophy
Now I understand why people were upset that we didn’t get these version as the main characters in the MCU I actually remember being confused as a kid cause I thought !CU Scott and wasp were Janet and hank Pym only they didn’t look like em at all. Great vid man keep up the great work! 😊
I was here thinking that I was the only human being in the world that still care for this character, thanks for the video it's really amazing and something I want to point out is the Ant-Man suit isn't meant to be a weapon it's purpose is to understand wild life such as ants and termites also one of my favorites scenes from Hank is when he teaches the concept of violence to Ultron the way he reluctantly agrees to do it is just beautiful I like Hank think that dialogue is the way to solve conflict and that humanity is capable of so much more. I will forever keep the character of Hank Pym close to my heart dreaming of a world of dialogue and lack of violence.
Hank and Jan were the best parts of this show, imo. They were the emotional core of it all, and some of the most tender moments came from them. I think one of the biggest shames of the show getting canceled is that we never got to see where they took Hank's character arc next. Surely they wouldn't leave him stuck as the wacko, reckless Yellowjacket forever, right? There had to be some redemption for him in the following seasons, some sense of healing for him. Avengers: EMH did such a great job of covering Hank's mental decline *without* turning him into a domestic abuser (obviously, since it was a cartoon aimed at younger audiences). I remember before the first Ant-Man movie came out, one of the big arguments in support of Scott being the main Ant-Man over Hank was that Hank abused Jan in the comics. While that is very unfortunately true...I never understood why that had to mean he'd have to be an abuser in the movies, too. Avengers: EMH proved you could do a great take on the character and cover his flaws without turning him into an abuser. Those early Tales to Astonish comics featuring Hank & Jan were pretty fun...the two were written to be so obviously in love with each other, so it was cute to see them having adventures together. They were Marvel's original power couple. It's kind of sad to read those early comics, seeing them happy, knowing what comes later. Also, Wally Wingert was absolutely hilarious as Yellowjacket. One of my favorite moments in the show was when Hank trolled Abigail Brand by claiming there was nothing he could do to disarm the bomb...so he waits until the countdown is about to hit 0, then pulls out his shrink gun and miniaturizes it so the explosion does nothing.
"Make sure to annihilate those like and subscribe buttons like they're the sanity and mental wellbeing of Hank Pym." Bro you can't make me feel guilty to like and sub after I've already done it!
Thanks for this video. A great analysis. Though perhaps some recognition should be allowed for Wasp's role in Hanks break down, as she is one of the most valued aspects of his life and there does seem to be an aspect of YellowJacket being an attempt to be what he thinks she wants.
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks. I completely agree with you that she's a complete character that can stand separate to Pym, but Hank/Ultron never seem able to let go of her; in EMH he initially tries to chose his ideology over their relationship, only to wallow in misery: he does respect and admire the intellect of people like Stark and the morals of Cap, but he's not afraid to disagree with them. Disagreeing with Janet though really hurts him. Thanks again for this spotlight. I knew nothing of Antman before EMH, but his scene calling out the others and leaving cemented him as one of the most interesting characters to me.
I really wish the MCU would do something like this, have a character who is against the violence the Avengers use as the answer to their conflicts, who eventually becomes some form of antagonist, but in doing so causes the Avengers to change. I think that could be even more effective in the MCU given just how many villains get needlessly killed off, leaving the villains side of the MCU to feel pretty empty to me compared to the comics, seriously when they introduced the raft there was what, only two characters people could think of that would be in there? It always feels like to me that there's no other threats in the MCU outside of the ones that are shown in films, and even then those ones are usually one and done characters. I'd love if they introduced the Serpent Society as something that say Captain America fought between Winter Soldier and AoU, and they're just all in the Raft, or heck just do the same for more obscure villains like Grey Gargoyle or Whirlwind. To me that would go a long way to make the villains side of the MCU feel less empty.
Head canon: Hank when he initially became Ant-man he was very violent, but eventually took it too far and ended up killing a villain. This traumatized Hank making him adopt his pacifist ideology (explains why he was Ant-man at the beginning of the series despite his ideals).
@@PillarofGarbage Especially once you remember that in the comics, retcons elaborated that Hank became Ant-Man to an extent, to cope for his first wife's murder with adventures.
Hank has been one of the most intelligent people in Marvel canon since the beginning, yet most people forget he exists. Nice to see some coverage Also, I like that "new" Hank (post 2000) isn't a crazy wife abuser.
I mean Yellow Jacket also has that funny scene with SWORD lol. Wally Wingert is such a good voice actor, he’s also been The Riddler in the Arkham Series and even Psycho Blue in Power Rangers In Space.
great vid, thanks for that. Hank is an underrated hero and this take on him as passive-fist makes him all the more compelling, thanks again, nuff said!
Hank was actually supposed to be brainwashed by Ultron in second season. In one episode, he'll be doing his orders by kidnapping Wasp to turn her into Jocasta, but was saved by Avengers and Vision. Interesting thing is that it did happen after he became Yellow Jacket. They would have explored his mental illness more, but Man of Action.... Still, great video, man. 👍🤗
Fantastic analysis. I always felt bad for Hank. His heart was in the right place but his stance against violent made him look weak and a liability in the eyes of the Avengers. Even Wasp scolded him about it, even though she damn well knows that he is a pacifist. In the end he became the man he didn't want to be. A man who solves all his problem with violence.
I'm sure even comic readers knew it would happen due to him being Yellow Jacket and having awareness of the serious mental issues he tends to have in the comics
This is my preferred version of Hank Pym to be honest. The bad reputation he died from the comics was due to a miscommunication between the artist and writers so I’m really glad that this show took into consideration what was intended more than what happened in the comic pages
Honestly hank pym is a interesting character that aren't in most shows also I never expected him to become yellow jacket by that I knew he was yellowjacket but I never expected him to become yellowjacket in the show the only thing I wanted to see how he would act with Scott as his successor since I think Scott is in storie only also still waiting for a captain marvel episode
One of the bigger problems predominantly with comics is that almost none of the villains want to change. There are some who are reluctant, but often they enjoy their powers and the fear they can generate. Or even what their costumes generate. Even if they get locked up they resist trying to change in anyway.
I bet if EMH continues, Hank would return and become the the white mage of the Avengers. He would use his science expertise to help the Avengers. He would heal his teammates, create suits for them, support the team when they need assistance, Slow the enemies, distract them, hinder them, hold them. Creating advantages with the help in battles. I would also recommend Hank having high amount of Charisma for the best chance of persuasion, intimidating, and deceiving himself and the Avengers way out of fights. Encounters can often, if not usually, be solved in many different ways. Heck, while at it he can even be the chef and cook food for everyone. He would finally found his place on the Avengers. Being a pacifist, a scientist and a hero.
I've heard some people hating Hank for his psychological problem, but I personally like it. Not my favorite character, but he is very interesting. I personally think that yes, Hank would have taken the next step during third season. I theorize he may have become Goliath during the Thor Croaks episode, but that's just me.
This was a fantastic video. I didn't ever really put too much thought into Hank's character, so I didn't really connect the pieces, but you're right. The way the show handles Ant-Man is great. It's a very, very interesting way to redefine the character. Honestly, I'm just absolutely loving all this EMH content and the care and thought you put into every video.
I agree that Hank's storyline probably didn't get its true ending because the show ended after season 2... But in a way, it got an (I'm sure unintentional) ending. It becomes a slightly dark for kids TV story about a man succumbing to his subconscious violent tendencies. This has evidence back in the first season that really only stuck out on a rewatch. In his first appearance at the end, when we see Jan coming into the lab after he dealt with Claw. He ,very casually, asks Janet to make sure the ants don't EAT THE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED HIM. The first time you see it, it plays for humor as an almost Reed Richards-like distracted by the science moment.... On rewatch, would he have gone to check on them if Jan hadn't come back when she did? Would he have just left them to be eaten? Also, it's clearly stated that Ultron is based on Hank's own mind, and what happens when Ultron is taught violence? It goes insane and tries to kill everyone. Would Hank go that far? No, even I don't think he would. He doesn't have the same cold detachment Ultron strives for... But once he really tastes violence, does he want to stop using it? No. So I would argue that as his story ended, in the 2 seasons we got, his pacifism was not a shield for him and his morals... But for others, from what he was afraid that he might do.
It would've been cool if we got to see Hank's pacifist methods work imagine episode about a escaped villain who became a hero after Hank helped them with the rest of the avengers being wary of the reformed villain but proven to be wrong when the villain turned hero saves them.
Hated how much the show ignored him in the second half of the show, but now seeing how he never appears at all anywhere, I suppose o should have been glad they gave him some focus at all
When I was younger I loved this show, it gave me both the story AND the action that I required to really get into it and start seeing it more than just "Heros VS Villains," and it showed actual passion throughout its run. Unlike the MCU it didn't just want money. All in all, even though its a cartoon, it still has more integrity and passion than any MCU movie has shown in the last 5-10 years.
If the series had gotten a third season I would love if they show had continue Hank's downfall, showing he became more reckless and violent, maybe even resulting inthe infamous moment where he hurts Janet, only this time the avengers don't just kick him out of the group but actually recognize the fact they all played a role in Hank's downfall by refusing to recognizing the values of his pacifism and that not all problems can be solve just by punching someone (basically doing a role reverse, with the avengers becoming more like Hank in season 1 while he becomes more violent and willing to hurt others).
I always loved Hank and remember the Yellow Jacket episode horrifying me as a kid. I was so sad when he gave his mantle away to Scott, someone I felt didn't earn it, and I had this grand idea of Ant Man going into the MCU. Seeing Hank as a beaten down old man was devastating. The endearing way Scott was portrayed saved the character, but turning my second favorite Avenger to a footnote is something I'll never forget. Hank started out as someone who believed in the good in all of us, and in joining the Avengers for Janet, he destroyed himself. This series was the death of the original Ant Man, and he will likely stay at rest.
@@PillarofGarbage especially because I feel a lot of people slept on the series even though it's one of the best written superhero cartoons I've seen? Definitely stands up to the best which says a lot
If EMH continued, it would be cool if they made Hank the Mastermind of the Avengers. That he would feel comfortable and I find a place where he can enjoy being a scientist and help his friends without resulting himself into violence. Kinda like how Beast/Hank McCoy is to the X-Men.
I think it would’ve been cool to see some of Hanks patients actually grow from his lessons. Some of them correct their villainous ways and become better people.
As a kid, I LOVED Hank Pym. He was easily my favorite character in the show, and one of my favorite characters ever. And you perfectly described why I loved him so much
The writers make Hank do one awful thing while under mental problems, which admittedly is no excuse but still, and give him an arc about taking therapy, slowly fixing his relationship, and finally overcoming his issues to be a better person, but people still only talk about that single panel and vilify him. Meanwhile, we got Charles Xavier, who has brainwashed people, wiped their memories to forget their loved ones who died, and has literally weaponized a holocaust survivor's trauma against them and still is considered a kind, caring man who leads the X-men like a loving family. Not to mention all the other heroes who did bad stuff. Have you seen some of the things Tony did when trying to force superheroes to work for the government.
I would absolutely watch a 22 minute episode about Hank Pam trying to rehabilitate one or a small group of supervillains. The episode could simultaneously prove that the Avenger’s approach is usually right, but that Hank isn’t an idiot for trying to help. One villain made a better person would make the whole story come full circle. All it takes is a single criminal regretting or renouncing their past, and that’s all that’s needed to prove Pym might be right. If even one in every hundred villains can be redeemed, then is Hank Pym right for wanting to try, even if the other 99 may cause more problems in the long run, or is everyone else right for trying to protect the world from the 99 even if it will forever doom the one? A single redeemed villain proves Yellowjacket wrong, and that might be all it takes to bring back Ant-Man for good.
In the kang episode there's a short moment of jannet seeing Hank with a "I'm sorry honey" look right after she says to Cap that she knows where to find an army to defend the earth. Like she knows how much this can break Hank if it goes wrong and clearly it did
Two thoughts: 1). I think Hank could also be wearing the Ant-Man suit when he's first introduced as a tool of both science & exploration. Before he joins the Avengers, he might have used his suit to study things from & another angle & explore places he couldn't otherwise reach (while also using it to save people from harm & fight crime when & if he ever came across it. Hank is a pacifist, but he'd rather be violent than let people come to harm, as we've seen). 2). I just noticed, Yellow Jacket's microscopic prison kind of looks like a sword from the outside. Kind of.
If we ever get a EMH season 3, I want Scott Lang to join the Avengers as the new Ant-Man but see him struggling to live up to Hank’s legacy Especially when the entire team, Janet in particular, are, at best dismissive, and rude at worst towards Scott because all they can see when they look at him is Hank (It really doesn’t work that when Scott put the Ant-Man costume who looked *exactly* like Hank does, so I wanted to add that factor because I thought it would be neat) Eventually, Yellowjacket returns with a personal vendetta against Scott where the two duke it out but surprisingly, it’s Scott who wants to talk things out with Hank instead of resorting to violence And even though Yellowjacket refuses to hear him out, Scott continues to try and reason with his predecessor as they continue to fight but you can see that Scott is really just acting out of self defense and not really trying to hurt Hank This way, it would almost seem like it’s Hank’s previous persona, Ant-Man, with his old ideals of pacifism, rehabilitation and that everyone deserves a second chance trying to reach out to Yellowjacket, this violent persona that Hank has built after all the tragedy and trauma he went through It would end in a bittersweet note as Yellowjacket decides not to kill Scott (for now) and disappears without a trace, and Ant-Man stares into the distance Vowing, “No matter what Hank, I *will* bring you back. I promise…" ((Y’know what, this turned out to be a better idea than I thought. Maybe *I* should write a fanfic about this, whaddya say?))
Sucks we never got a season 3. Expanding the Avengers into a West Coast division after the Galactus debacle. Allowing Hawkeye to start his own team, with Mockingbird, War Machine, and a finally rehabilitated Wonder Man, they could’ve also wrapped up Hank’s story by letting him help them like he did in the comics. And plus since Yost claims S3 would’ve included magic and mutants they could’ve introduced Scarlet Witch to be a part of that team.
Excellent review! Ive avoided EMH because core Avengers is a bit cheesy and the Mcu didnt write him as part of the Avengers and even Wasp was in the first team in the comics. But its cool they mix it up
My favorite characters in this show when I watched it as a kid were ant man because of his pasiphisem and his questioning of the moral ambiguity of his violent actions. And black panther, because he was a cool ninja.
I loved loved loved this video! Perfect timing too because I was looking up Hank Pym related videos today 😊 thanks for such a grest analysis on a character greatly under appreciated in a show that is greatly underrated
In my past. I served 13 and a half years in prison. As a former inmate, I can tell you that not everyone can be rehabilitated. To tell you the truth, prisons don't actually rehabilitate inmates anymore. That's up to the individual.
I think after watching the show Hank Pym is my favorite character from the show and also gave me a new found appreciation for the character because before this I only knew him via the MCU
I always related to Hank Pym in this Show even as a kid and as an Adult I do so even more. I didn't realize I was in the minority. Interesting and nice video, keep up the good work my friend and most Importantly to anyone reading this I hope you have a wonderful life full of nothing but goodness and happiness and have a beautiful day/night my friends.
I grew up on this show, and when I first saw the trailer for the ant man films I was slightly disappointed. Especially since they had just done ultron by then. Because I was hopping to re live that rise and fall of ant man
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Uhh, looks like I made a little mistake with the audio at 4:41. Oops! I had a train to catch, so I guess I didn’t take enough time to check it. Sorry!
Technically it's another sample of Hank's voice, so it fits perfectly into the video without any problems, all coldly calculated.
as Gg is saying it very much fits the video in such a way that it took me checking it 2 times to realise that was the mistake. Thanks fo a great video.
It’s fine, man. I didn’t catch it at first watch, it doesn’t disrupt the flow of the video, and it works with the topic - so it’s really no harm, no foul! Let’s call it a happy accident, Bob Ross style.
P.s. I just thought of this while typing “Bob Ross,” but speaking of a completely different Ross with a VERY different screen presence, could you do a video on the Hulk in EMH?
I dont even hear what ur talking about so i wouldn't worry about it. Great vid.
@@kh-wq4jb same
The way I saw this split between superheroics and pacifism in Hank is that he became a superhero because Jan wanted to be one. He created a superhero identify out of his tech to indulge in her fantasy, hoping she'd either get bored of it or come around to his way of thinking. Then the Avengers formed, and I think he saw it more for the scientific collaborations than the superheroics.
A convincing reading!
I’d also like to point out that the suit was likely designed to further his research; the combat capabilities were likely an unintended function. Actually being the same size as ants and being able to communicate with them probably opens the door to many different kinds of experiments.
So, he's a man of science that simply does the superhero stuff for the connections, cause that makes him more of an asset
Lowkey Reed Richards then?
@@RedHotDinglingPepper I always saw the Fantastic Four as a scientific exploration team that dabbles in superheroics.
I’ll try to not make this too long.
Ah, Hank Pym, Marvel’s black sheep. Nowadays, the writers are more or less embarrassed by his character, and this has become a more recurring decision as what to do with Pym’s character. Even the MCU opted the other route, to simply skim past all the comic drama that the writers created ago, and transform Hank into an aged mentor for Scott Lang, and with the creative “decision” to have Hank not be a founding member of the Avengers or the Creator of Ultron.
I personally was disappointed by the change, and not because “Scott was the more relatable protagonist”, but because they weren’t willing to give Hank’s character another chance, as if his character was tainted with what he did in the comics.
And I’m excusing any of the character’s actions in the comics, but I am saying that the *real* reason Hank’ personality is so messed up is because the writers can’t decide whether Pym is a good guy, a conflicted scientist, a arrogant know-it-all, or a troubled superhero with a bipolar disorder.
Watching EMH made me realize that the reason that version of Hank was the best one was because not only were the writers the same and consistent, but they were willing to give Hank’s comic story a do-over a second chance, probably the last one we’ll ever see.
Hank’s actions in the comics weren’t his own. If you read the original script it says that Hank throws his hands in the air in frustration, accidentally hitting Janet in the process. I don’t think it’s fair that so many people are taking their anger out on Hank over the fact that an artist disobeyed orders.
@@Joseph_Drew_III Most of the modern writers forget this and like to write Hank as some abusive, irredeemable pric
@@MTV2O2O see the entirety of the ultimate universe (Jesus fucking Christ ultimate Hank)
@@rubiconprime1429 Do not remind me of that universe ever again
@@MTV2O2O you got it
In the episode is clear that Cap and Ironman see what Hank has become and regret not having showed appreciation for his original persona.
They accept Yellow jacket in the team just because Jan ask them to.
The way i saw Hank downfall was meant to show well Hank thought the avengers were like him even know they aren't him and try to force his believes and standard onto theme well failing to see and realize that you can't force your views onto people as you need to do it in baby steps and that a pacifist nature can't always fix things and that you can't make the world a better place as people need to see and realize their own screw ups as Hank did most of his actions to himself
@@comicbookreviewer4856 periods, man, periods.
Ironman sure, cap not so much.
Well if it wasn't for this very spectacular cartoon I won't even be as big of an Ant Man fan as I am now or even be aware of the impact of his character for years to come really......
Yeah I hated it at first when it wasn’t going to be Hank Pym in the suit for movies
I found put about him from lego marvel superheroes
So glad to see Hank get his due. Ever since some infamous comic panels, writers have run his name through the dirt, but his intentions and nobility in this show just highlights his flaws and the flaws of the superhero justice cycle brilliantly. Great videos!
what infamous panels?
@@juanig4198 he slapped Janet in an old Avengers issue. For context he was having a mental breakdown and the writer said he wrote it as an accidental hit, but nevertheless it was drawn as intentional and since then Marvel hasnt really let him move on.
Lmao, that being said you’re never allowed to hit a women only she can hit you in comics and real life.
To your point of the hypocrisy of the super suit, Hank's Ant Man suit is as much his lab coat as his white one is. It's a tool; one that can be used for both the pursuit of science and self defense. In Hank's case, I think he would call himself more of a costumed adventurer like the Fantastic Four than a superhero
Nah, both The F4 and Ant-man are superheroes
Nah, both The F4 and Ant-man are superheroes
Hank Pym is one of my favorite characters in all of Marvel and it's mostly due to this show. He's a pacifist in a world of violence and I love it. Granted I love him even more as Yellowjacket but that's more because he's so funny (Look to the Kree bomb incident to see). It's a disappointment nobody will give him a chance anymore all because he hit Janet once. News flash normies, Peter hit MJ during the Clone Saga and you don't see him getting this treatment. GIVE HANK A CHANCE
And even worse, the time he hit Janet was meant to be an accident. He got angry and turned while gesturing with his arm, accidentally hitting Janet. And so now he’s just a wife beater.
Why can’t we get better Hank Pym stuff?
It’s just like the time Sally Acorn smacked Sonic the Hedgehog across the face in the old Archie Comics in an OOC manner in a badly written comic but a lot of her detractors uses that scene as an excuse to depict her as a bitch in their fanfiction and remember her for that while forgiving Fiona Fox whom with a smirk did the exact same thing to Tails who’d be a 12 old child or 8 year old child depending on the media.
@@rayvenkman2087 dang, really?
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ I've been a Pym fan since 1976-77. Reading 1966's Avengers #32 as a back issue, and later, his mental breakdown in Avengers #161-162, made me a fan of the character. I don't buy Shooter's account blaming artist Bob Hall for the infamous backhand and black eye for reasons I go into in another comment above. Given Shooter's last-minute insistence that the endings of Avengers #200 (Ms. Marvel goes off to Limbo with her rapist) and X-Men #137 (the Death of Phoenix) be immediately rewritten and redrawn as they were within days of being sent to the printers, his account smacks even more as a retcon of events to dodge responsibility for a controversial creative decision.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ Yeah.
“After all, who’d watch Ant Man counseling supervillains and their reintegration into society for 20 minutes a pop?”
Me. I would. That sounds amazing. Can we make this happen?
Might make a great webcomic though.
@@harlannguyen4048 ooh, I like that idea.
Antman: so how did it start
Thanos: with me wanting to bang death
The problem with his premise is that he thinks everyone one can be rehabilitated. No, some ppl are just evil and want to see the world burn, heck some want to be the matches. His ideals can't compete with his reality.
@@nobodyknowsforsure Sounds like spicy episodes to sprinkle in. Cause that would still be entertaining to me 🤣
When you brought up the fact that the Pym particles messes Hank up mentally, it makes you wonder if Janet isn’t going through something similar.
Could’ve been a nice episode idea.
I got this idea after noticing that Janet, as the series went on, grew more aggressive.
This can be from her battle experience but it’s a penny for our thoughts.
Usually the idea is that only Hank suffers the mental disorders from use of the Pym Particles.
Pym created a product that in all the notable cases seen, he is one of the two humans less compatible with it. He can use it, but he really shouldn't since at least the early versions damaged his health.
A case where the creator is the least fit to use their creation.
@@pavelclementerodriguezmira8499
I wondered if being mutated by the gamma radiation could’ve messed with Wasp’s Pym Particles?
Yeah, it's weird I mean in the comics Janet got so exposed to the particles that gave her the superpowers without needing a suit
I think it might have something to do with Hank needing the suit.
I think you can explain it in the show that Hank altered Jan's DNA, so that her body produces the particles naturally (we don't see a huge burst of Pym particles when she transforms, and doesn't need a suit), Where as he is constantly injecting Pym particles into his body
It's pretty rare to see a pacifist superhero turning into a rude anti-hero. Yellow Jacket is a huge asshole & when I watched Earth's Mightiest Heroes, made me wish the old Hank Pym came back. I think Scott Lang's Ant-Man would have fully joined The Avengers team, if Season 3 wasn't cancelled.
We needed a season 3...
There is this sort of duality with almost every superhero; at a surface level, it's their superhero persona and civilian identity, but that's only skin deep, as is often proved in EMH, especially with Hank Pym. Tony is all too ready to get in and fight things out; this mostly comes from his background as an arms developer and merchant, Tony knows just how violent some people can be and there are just some people that only seem to respond to being approached with force, so he goes out to meet these challenges as Iron Man, a mechanized suit of armor that is basically a mobile weapons' platform; Captain America was a soldier back during the second world war, conflict and fighting are baked into who he is but he still tries to find more peaceful approaches to problems when he sees the opportunity to do so, this mostly because he believes in the inherent good in people, he is an innately good person and believes that everyone just needs to the right sort of guidance to get to being a good person as well, his belief in people and pushing your body to the limit when needed often comes into conflict with Tony since Tony puts more faith in technology and his technical know-how to build that better solution if it doesn't exist or improve upon when it does exist; Thor is a warrior through and through, which is probably why he makes many of his jests at Steve as a brother in arms, to Thor Captain America is seeking to protect others just as he is but within the confines of being a mortal of our world; Wasp masks her insecurities behind her childish behavior and party girl persona, regardless of whether she is in her superhero persona or civilian persona, the only time she thought she could really be herself with all of that laid bare was with Hank, she clearly cared about him and Hank hid his love for her behind his mountains of work because of his own insecurities and belief that Janet deserved someone better than him. Hulk is a literal manifestation of Bruce Banner's rage and insecurities; the Hulk is everything Bruce isn't, powerful and confident, while also projecting the anger and pain Bruce has kept bottled up almost his entire life because of his own insecurities and horrible background. In contrast, the Hulk of EMH is definitely more articulate and cognitive; it's apparent this is a bit of newer development. It's best exemplified in the interactions Hulk and Banner have early on in the series; it took Banner, who knows how long to convince the Hulk to go and help the team that later became the Avengers. He even approves of the name when Wasp suggests it. Still, Hulk has his own insecurities, which are made all too indicated when his first fight with the Avengers, which was provoked by the Enchantress feeding into those insecurities, happens.
Should a season 3 of EMH come to pass, and some of us are still praying cand still be a possibility, it would be nice to see Hank get to a more healthy space but still realize that his preferred approach will not always be an option, some people just want to lash out and be violent regardless of help they get. While I think it would be interesting to see Hank getting back into that healthier headspace, either as the primary focus of an episode or fragments of several episodes, and get back into his attempts at using therapy to rehabilitate villains by donning a new costume reminiscent of the Ant-Man outfit in a new version of The Big House but still pulling from other personas he has had in his publishing history. I realize it might put him to almost where we started with him in the series but I think that's kind of the point, sometimes we get back to similar places we were before on our journey to better ourselves, the only real difference is the experiences between where you were and where you are at that moment so you can hopefully make better-informed decisions moving forward.
Hank Pym/Ant Man is my favorite civilian/superhero dichotomy, but I’d say Peter Parker/Spider-Man is a very, very close second. Peter Parker gains the confidence all shy nerds wish they had when he puts on the mask, and it makes for such an interesting dynamic.
What insecurities does Wasp have?
Amazing analysis
@@antonissa8345 In the comics, Wasp is insecure about her abilities as a hero due to having weaker powerset/skillset in comparison to several of the Avengers.
- The series made a reference about it when Abomination called her the weakest Avenger in S1.
- S2 saw Janet asking Hank if he would amplify her powerset. In this case, is less about Janet considering herself weak and more about being thrilled to get a power-up
Michael Douglas: "He does exactly what I do."
Wally Wingert: "But better."
Honestly EMH did Hank Pym and Jan Van Dyne Pym justice. I loved their chemistry and relationship with each other. I’d say more, but I’m unsure what.
EMH's Hank Pym was My first favorite super-hero and I wish people were willing to put in the work to write him like that again but now they just fall back on
"crabby mentor" or "washed up geezer" instead of a really compelling character
To be perfectly fair, Edgar Wright, who was the scriptwriter for Ant Man, admitted that he had a bias for Scott Lang's Ant Man, as he had been Ant Man for the longest time.
@@rudranshu65sengupta14That's fine and all, I respect his choice on Scott Lang Ant-Man but this was a missed opportunity to make an Ant-Man film before The Avengers. If Hank and Janet had their own film before, this would have been at least pleasant since after 2012, Hank could have struggled with his mental health, view on his pacifism, and wondering if rehabilitation is useless and have a metal breakdown then become Yellowjacket but much more violent. He could have been like this: "Forget that coward Ant-Man, now they'll all have to deal with Yellowjacket."
Avengers EMH really needs more love. Its unlike any Marvel adaptation to date. The story stayed fairly true to comics whilst adapting these characters and plot lines in an approachable manner, and improving upon the writing in many cases. Hank was not just done again, where most have opted to completely skip his character because of a single comic book panel, but given a more consistent character arc and a far more sympathetic character. Similar to how Kang was made really interesting and an actual threat. Really it kills me that this show got canceled. Marvel was THIS close to a BTAS and DCAU. Also just imagine if mainstream comics took notes from EMH instead that one time Disney tried to strip everything bare and dumb it down to fit comics to the MCU.
Without the comics there wouldn't be an MCU. The characters were created in the comics, never forget.
In all honesty, I felt sorry for Hank Pym in the Avengers earth's mightiest heroes cartoon series. He was a scientist, superhero, and pacifist who wanted to help people but circumstances keep pushing him to go against what he believes in. Even the avengers, his friends and teammates took him for granted and didn't appreciate him for who he is. This is especially true for Janet Van Dyne, who I believe is the most responsible for the damage to Hank's psyche, next to Ultron anyway. Just look at the scene when Hank quits the avengers. Janet not only blamed Hank for Hawkeye getting injured when all Hank wanted to do was settle things as peacefully as possible, but Janet didn't even respect Hank's pacifism. Between that and the avengers berating Hank for his pacifism, it's no wonder he snapped and quit. Hank was in the right to quit, and all Janet could think about was how she didn't want him to quit rather than see Hank's side of things. Janet constantly does this. Even when Hank Pym became yellowjacket, she only wanted him back on the team for her own sake, not even considering Hank or how he feels. It's such a shame that the series ended with Hank still having a severely deteriorated psyche and his issues not fully resolved. Hank Pym deserved better than what he got.
That kinda the point Hank put himself and his team to impossible standers As Hank thought he could help the villains even know most of theme are to far gone and the avengers know they cant pull back punches in case if anything goes wrong showing Hank did most of this to himself and not admitting no one is like him and you cant always see the world you want it to much like Diane from bojack and steven in steven universe
@@comicbookreviewer4856 except the problem with that is when the ep he quit he was actully getting thru the whole ordeal that gotten hawlkguy injured was because the team were to violent. plus the base belief hank believs is right that beating them is not gonna solve anything
Yeah if EMH ever got revived, I wish they did better to fix Janet by having her be more empathetic to Hank
Yeah talk about humbleness, hank makes cap look abit egotistical even tho cap really isn’t. Man, what a well written guy hank is… he should’ve settled for a much better girl. He’s amazing, great analysis bro
I disagree that Janet was THE PROBLEM so much as their relationship was. They were both idealists moving in completely opposite direction and neither entirely tuned to reality. Janet believing fighting crime and putting criminals in jail was the best way to protect law abiding citizens. Hank seeing the criminals themselves as victims either of society or their own mental health or circumstance or whatever because everyone is an individual and has a massively different story that leads to the choices they made. Hank sees his life purpose as helping criminals and other people to see their full potential and discover ways to use their abilities and skills to help others. Janet sees herself as the one helping by beating down those that would abuse power. Now to throw my bias out there, I fully agree with Hank in EMH. The greatest deterrent to crime is rehabilitation and it also leads to the most positive outcome where there aren’t just less criminals, but more productive members of society looking to help. That said I do think there’s a limit where realistically criminals are just as human as the rest of us, which is to say massively flawed and difficult to change after their developmental phase as ended (usually around 25ish).
Janet is the ONLY member of the Avengers in EMH that was ALWAYS an avenger. From start to end. I think that dedication deserves saying. She also did love Hank as he did her. Caring about his mental health and much later on being a lot more compromising (telling him in the Yellow Jacket episode she was fine with him not coming back to the avengers but just wanted him to not be alone for his health). I think her biggest flaw was her more simple mindset and Hank’s was his more compromising attitude. It was Jane that pushed him out of his comfort zone and to do things more “her way”. While Hank himself was trying to stay true to his beliefs and values and please Jan. It wasn’t until much later on when Janet saw how far she pushed him that she showed some reflection and became more compromising as well.
I think their relationship in EMH is so well written and interesting. You could make a series about it alone. I wish they had this level of writing in Avengers United they stand. They’re literally “opposites attract” but far more real and less Hollywood in that relationships of two people who love each other but move in completely opposite directions on different wavelengths can be kinda really toxic at times. I really wanted to see how their relationship developed even further on as Janet dealt with Yellow Jacket and a persona that was essentially created to please her. To very much see her innocent pushing of Hank to something he didn’t want and unfortunate circumstances and his own perceived failure created. This show really could have benefited from mental health break episodes (similar to Young Justice), where characters just got room to breathe and talk between each other.
Man this is bringing back memories. Its when I think about EMH that I start to loathe the MCU again. Honestly, I don’t give a crap that something I don’t like (the MCU) is popular. Its when said popular thing is taken too far and tramples over all versatility and variety in a franchise in an attempt to greedily milk it. EMH getting canceled for MCU tie in Assemble is disgusting and insulting. Same goes with what they tried to do with the comics and how they butchered the games like Marvel vs Capcom to revolve literally everything Marvel over the MCU.
To me, Hank fell into the trap of pacifism. I he wanted to stay true to his ideals, then he has to be willing to become the world's punching bag and stay on the sideline, taking no action to support any side of a conflict. If he wants to help others however, then he must pick a side and get involved in the conflict by making continuous compromises. His fall to Yellowjacket can be a result of his repeated compromises to his ideals until he outright betrays them.
To me in a way Hank did it more to himself than he realized as he put himself and his team to impossible standers and thought he could help the villains well failing to realize they are too far gone to be helped and the fact the avengers know they cant hold back punches if anything went wrong and the fact Hank slowly realize no one was like him and ended up falling down the path due to those impossible standers much like steven universe and Diane from bojack horseman as they put things to impossible standers well failing to realize it
If he betrayed his ideals, he’d become a villain. The fact that he’s still a competent teammate and still willing to fight with the Avengers proves he still believes in helping people
I feel cheated that this show ended before the Avengers could try to address what happened to Hank again. At the end of Yellowjacket they kinda just let it be. That's fine and all, because they had kinda gone through hell and struggle to keep him around so they didn't want to push it at the moment. But the fact that everything was left unresolved and the Avengers kinda just let it be is just depressing. I think that it would be good to see him go into therapy and return to being a normal scientist. Maybe he accepts that sometimes violence is a necessary evil, but it's just not something he wants in his life, and he can be on good terms with the Avengers.
Hank has principles in a world that rejects those principles. Already fragile emotionally, he broke.
We all love Cap and Hulk. But Hank resonates as a human more.
He's a mental giant, but has empathy and compassion. He's not a cold scientist. Maybe he wants to rehab people because he knew he was in danger of slipping?
Adds another layer. The reveal that Ultron was based on his brain patterns... jesus. How can you get past that?
Hank is capable of empathy and compassion, but he's also not able to connect or reconcile the world around him. He seems like the odd man out because he chooses to be. Not unlike Tony in the MCU. I don't recall him ever sitting down with someone like Cap or
T'Challa and discussing his problems. They're great listeners and might have some real world insight.
Also, if he's doing the rehab thing because he's avoiding his own mental instability, then he should have worked on that first.
Hank Pym was actually my favorite for his empathy. It truly added depth to the superhero genre
Even if he was left in a bad place, can we say this version of Hank Pym is by far the best of any canon.
Hank pym was the first character I cared for when his life went downhill
Hank Pym is very good character, it's sad the MCU chose Scott Lang instead of Hank
Scott Lang is a great character and deserves his place in the MCU, but it’s sad that the MCU let the failings of the comics keep them from doing Hank justice in his own right in the MCU.
I can see these hank pym and janet as part of the mcu as well
Scott is still great tho,And also Conspiracy theory:is Luis Secretly God?
I say thank god for that. If they chose Hank Pym, they would have butchered his character as the story went on. (Because of how the original medium was like) So it was better that they went with Scott Lang.
EMH really made me into a Hank Pym fan. He really is a scientist first, hero second. And his mental breakdown was treated with the seriousness a super hero show can afford to those issues.
It's sad what his character has become in the comics, Marvel seems to hate him most of the time.
And i get that the slap is memorable and all but they never seem to even want to move on from that, seriously it's been decades. It wouldnt even be that bad if it wasnt for the writters both ignoring other heroes doing things as bad or worse, and that he has been trying to make up for all his failures.
Dude I felt for Hank, I don't like to fight but I will if provoked. But the way he felt that he essentially created the evil Ultron and how her just wants to be a science boy.
There's something else the series only touched implicitily.
I think part of Hank's contradictory personality is his vindictive/negative side he has on others once he feels wronged/disapointed, and how it takes a toll on him:
- There's the hostility with Stark during the early episodes of Season 1 due to a past incident with Stark trying to turn Ultron into a military asset; Hank says about reforming villains, but he was rather caustic with Stark during the "Simon Williams incident".
- Hank's continuous stress venting with Ultron and lines about "humans failing as species" biting him in the ass when they played an inspiration in Ultron's corruption.
- His violent reaction once Jan and the others are harmed by enemies.
Funny enough. If you don't have cosmic level power or reality warping powers. His ability to send you into the micro verse is almost unbeatable. Hulk? good luck fighting back in the micro verse.
Maybe one day we can see something similar to this in the MCU. Michael Douglass has expressed, to my knowledge, willingness in playing a younger Hank Pym. Hank is a really interesting character, and it’s a shame he didn’t get to finish his arc
Hank is probably my 2nd favourite character in the whole show, so Im really happy that you did an analysis on him! And a really good one at that! My favourite character is Janet, so Im really excited for that analysis.
Who’s ur first?
@@Riverburke8170 Janet!
I love that you have done a character study on arguably one of the best written emh characters
I could talk about many points of Hank Pym and how he is the best character in the series with the captain, but I think you mentioned something very interesting. Avengers earths migthy's heroes leaves you with many life values that served me as a child, unity, pacifism, second chances, they are values left in a good way without having a vague script, made with a great story, and great reflections that you will not always see in others. series. If I was lucky enough, it is to experience this series jewel, a perfect series for me.
-GG
Hmm... this is a really good analysis! However, I'd argue that, even in the "Real World," Hank's philosophy would still be untenable. For these supervillains, many fall into two categories: This is basically their job, or they're clinically insane. For the former, no amount of persuasion or therapy would want to make them give up this life. Take Kang or Baron Struker: They're villains because they want to be. They're selfish, and their goals are what they base their whole life around. It would be difficult, if not downright impossible, to convince them otherwise. For the latter, argument can be made on the implications of that, but Hank's methods wouldn't work due to them not being suited for mental help. And there's a good reason for that.
Hank doesn't understand human nature. Even past the "We're all people, and we're all basically good" argument (Which can also be argued back and forth ad nauseum), Hank really doesn't get humans. We see it in his interactions with Jan, and his interactions with other people, with the Avengers. Ultron was created as a *Therapy Robot*, and yet it's mentioned multiple times that he looks creepy. The Big House, while moderately well furnished, puts villains in what amounts to little glass boxes, same as all the other prisons.
In addition, Hank may argue for Pacifism, and believe it's the best course of action, but not only are his solutions to the problems of the EHM universe unhelpful, he doesn't seem to understand or consider possibly helpful methods. And let's not forget, no matter what his creed, there's one thing that will cause him to completely drop whatever he's doing and leap into action, with intent to hurt or even kill -- Janet.
Without fail, in the show, Hank will regularly betray his moral compass, the safety of the rest of the team, and sound strategy in favor of keeping Jan safe. This is, of course, on top of how he treats her normally (a topic for another time), but for all he talks up his own worldview and snarks at people like Tony for believing otherwise, he's willing to drop it all in an instant to protect Janet. Is it noble? One might be able to say so, but wouldn't it make sense, then, for him to reconsider his base philosophy if he is so easily willing to throw it away? A lack of doing so indicates, to me at least, a lack of self awareness, and a deep rooted hypocrisy that eventually contributes to his mental break.
I appreciate the detailed comment, and I think you’ve made a key point which I didn’t really consider with regard to Hank’s failure to ‘get people’. But I think the point you make about supervillains - that for many, they’re either insane, or it’s their job - could be made about a lot of real-world criminals as well. Do you think switching away from a focus on rehabilitation is the right move for those IRL cases?
That's a bit more of a complex issue, admittedly-- Due, in fact, to the nature of the genre itself, as you mentioned. In the real world, there are other factors that could cause either one of those things I mentioned to change over time, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.
My argument was more aimed towards supervillains in general-- Especially the C Tier and above. Take the Serpent Society. I don't know much about them in the comics, but based on the show they seem to be your generic "Take over the world" style antagonists, especially with Viper leading them. If their whole goal is power, and conquest of the world, then they aren't going to *want* to change. Similar thing with someone like Klaue-- His deal is money and control of vibranium, something that can't really be "educated" or whatnot out of him. Since that's what his whole worldview is focused on, it would be very hard to change that. Impossible? Perhaps not. And again, this is the EMH universe, not the real one, where contributing factors and a whole list of underlying things could cause changes.
Whatever the case, however, my main point was to illustrate that Hank's view specifically was poorly equipped to deal with these kinds of issues in a practical sense, and his misunderstanding of human nature and poor choices for "rehabilitation" made matters even worse.
@Alexander Capanov that’s actually another thing: Where do the Avengers (and by extension, Hank) stand on that? SHIELD has always been morally gray, so it’s in character for them to support that, but would the Avengers? It would have been neat, if we got a third season, to have that discussed in the planned crossover between the Avengers and Xmen. Would that have caused Hank to rethink his Yellowjacket persona? Heck, I know Cap would find the idea uncomfortable at best and downright odious at worst, and would probably make a comment about HYDRA camps in WW2 (since they avoid using the IRL terminology).
I guess the question on that, then, is where do the Avengers draw the line on imprisoning people, even with just cause? Supervillain trials have always been problematic in the marvel universes, with ample opportunity for being broken out and such. And then again, consider someone like Hawkeye. This actually might even be a deeper issue than the surface that’s been scratched…
@Alexander Capanov that would also be a really neat way to bring Hank’s character arc full circle! In the comics, he was on team Iron Man as Yellowjacket, before being revealed as a spy for Cap (and then as a skrull, but that’s not the point). What if, in EMH, he had done a similar thing, except it got to the point where he realized he could no longer condone Tony’s actions, and instead decided to switch to team Cap and begin the transition back towards being a more peaceful character?
I'd like to add that his capacity for diplomacy isn't a bad thing off hand. Convincing the others to listen to Mar-vell is a good example that he is capable of being a good voice of reason; which itself is a valuable addition to any team. That said, its important to recognize that he isn't betraying his moral compass. It's that he sets the bar too high. The fact that even as Yellowjacket he is still an effective teammate and still helps stop the bad guys shows he does care about helping people. The problem is he mentally locked himself into pacifism so much that he snapped because he couldn't reconcile the fact that sometimes talking won't be enough and he shouldn't hate others or himself for not doing so.
Hank is one of the most important Avengers along with Wasp and Hawkeye so it sucks how they were all treated in the MCU.
I think it’d make a good comedy show if Hank was rehabilitating villains, like he has to tell them how to solve problems like a normal person
thank GOD someone is talking about this show it's so underrated like no one i've met has heard about this show and it's so upsetting ( i also find it funny that alot of people use footage form this show but don't talk about it)
Hank has a history of hitting lows that writers are too uncomfortable to pull him out of, I'm not sure if the comic version ever even outgrew the "wife beater" stigma he used to have.
He has had many great moments after that slap. Problem is writers like Bendis will go out their way to make Hank a monster because of that moment. If only they'd do the same to Peter Parker.
@@Tony-oh Bendis was a good writer in the Ultimate universe.
But the things he did in 616, even if popular at the time had a long lasting damage.
Wanda hasnt recovered from what he did to her.
@@Tony-oh You leave Peter alone. Marvel beats the shit out of him enough as it is. He's more than payed for the 1 time he hit MJ in the worst Spider-Man story before Sins Past and One More Day came along.
I find it interesting how none of the main Avengers really grasp the concept of pacifism. Iron Man used to make weapons and created the ultimate one, Captain America is a super soldier made to fight in WW2, Thor is warrior god and to be Black Panther, to lead Wakanda you have to beat the current ruler. All of them originated or were created by some of form of violence but Ant-Man was born out of science, to explore the worlds around us and the worlds within them, to better understand creatures that most people view as nuisance. As far as I know in the EMH continuity Ant-Man was never meant to be a weapon but a tool to further scientific research and better human society. Also Ant-Man in EMH was one of my favorite characters if you couldn't tell.
Because the concept of pacifism is unrealistic. It's one thing to want to resolve conflicts without violence, its another to deny violence outright. Mr. Fantastic and his team do all the science and exploration stuff, but he doesn't shy away from conflict if necessary. If he can solve it with his brain, he'll do it; but if he has to get physical he will. Hank's problems stem from himself, and while I agree the others might have been a little hard on him, they never forced him to do anything and genuinely liked having him around.
Hank is really a tragic character that's misunderstood. He wants to be respected for his heroism and his genius.
I love how some of the villains in the yellowjacket episode actually run in fear, because some people cant be stopped by peaceful reasoning, and that was why hanks pacifist methods ultimately didnt work. the second they realize that there are serious consequences they stop and run
It was most definitely Hanks pacifism and enthusiasm that made me love him as an Avenger, it made him so different from everyone else, and as I got older I found myself agreeing with his methods and philosophy
Now I understand why people were upset that we didn’t get these version as the main characters in the MCU I actually remember being confused as a kid cause I thought !CU Scott and wasp were Janet and hank Pym only they didn’t look like em at all. Great vid man keep up the great work! 😊
I was here thinking that I was the only human being in the world that still care for this character, thanks for the video it's really amazing and something I want to point out is the Ant-Man suit isn't meant to be a weapon it's purpose is to understand wild life such as ants and termites also one of my favorites scenes from Hank is when he teaches the concept of violence to Ultron the way he reluctantly agrees to do it is just beautiful I like Hank think that dialogue is the way to solve conflict and that humanity is capable of so much more.
I will forever keep the character of Hank Pym close to my heart dreaming of a world of dialogue and lack of violence.
Hank and Jan were the best parts of this show, imo. They were the emotional core of it all, and some of the most tender moments came from them.
I think one of the biggest shames of the show getting canceled is that we never got to see where they took Hank's character arc next. Surely they wouldn't leave him stuck as the wacko, reckless Yellowjacket forever, right? There had to be some redemption for him in the following seasons, some sense of healing for him.
Avengers: EMH did such a great job of covering Hank's mental decline *without* turning him into a domestic abuser (obviously, since it was a cartoon aimed at younger audiences). I remember before the first Ant-Man movie came out, one of the big arguments in support of Scott being the main Ant-Man over Hank was that Hank abused Jan in the comics. While that is very unfortunately true...I never understood why that had to mean he'd have to be an abuser in the movies, too. Avengers: EMH proved you could do a great take on the character and cover his flaws without turning him into an abuser.
Those early Tales to Astonish comics featuring Hank & Jan were pretty fun...the two were written to be so obviously in love with each other, so it was cute to see them having adventures together. They were Marvel's original power couple. It's kind of sad to read those early comics, seeing them happy, knowing what comes later.
Also, Wally Wingert was absolutely hilarious as Yellowjacket. One of my favorite moments in the show was when Hank trolled Abigail Brand by claiming there was nothing he could do to disarm the bomb...so he waits until the countdown is about to hit 0, then pulls out his shrink gun and miniaturizes it so the explosion does nothing.
"Make sure to annihilate those like and subscribe buttons like they're the sanity and mental wellbeing of Hank Pym." Bro you can't make me feel guilty to like and sub after I've already done it!
Thanks for this video.
A great analysis. Though perhaps some recognition should be allowed for Wasp's role in Hanks break down, as she is one of the most valued aspects of his life and there does seem to be an aspect of YellowJacket being an attempt to be what he thinks she wants.
A very valid point!
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks.
I completely agree with you that she's a complete character that can stand separate to Pym, but Hank/Ultron never seem able to let go of her; in EMH he initially tries to chose his ideology over their relationship, only to wallow in misery: he does respect and admire the intellect of people like Stark and the morals of Cap, but he's not afraid to disagree with them.
Disagreeing with Janet though really hurts him.
Thanks again for this spotlight.
I knew nothing of Antman before EMH, but his scene calling out the others and leaving cemented him as one of the most interesting characters to me.
I really wish the MCU would do something like this, have a character who is against the violence the Avengers use as the answer to their conflicts, who eventually becomes some form of antagonist, but in doing so causes the Avengers to change. I think that could be even more effective in the MCU given just how many villains get needlessly killed off, leaving the villains side of the MCU to feel pretty empty to me compared to the comics, seriously when they introduced the raft there was what, only two characters people could think of that would be in there?
It always feels like to me that there's no other threats in the MCU outside of the ones that are shown in films, and even then those ones are usually one and done characters. I'd love if they introduced the Serpent Society as something that say Captain America fought between Winter Soldier and AoU, and they're just all in the Raft, or heck just do the same for more obscure villains like Grey Gargoyle or Whirlwind. To me that would go a long way to make the villains side of the MCU feel less empty.
Head canon: Hank when he initially became Ant-man he was very violent, but eventually took it too far and ended up killing a villain. This traumatized Hank making him adopt his pacifist ideology (explains why he was Ant-man at the beginning of the series despite his ideals).
This is an interesting theory!
@@PillarofGarbage Especially once you remember that in the comics, retcons elaborated that Hank became Ant-Man to an extent, to cope for his first wife's murder with adventures.
Hank has been one of the most intelligent people in Marvel canon since the beginning, yet most people forget he exists.
Nice to see some coverage
Also, I like that "new" Hank (post 2000) isn't a crazy wife abuser.
Wasp was my favorite character in the show and her dynamic with Hank only made it better.
great video! Hank is my favorite character in EMH and you've perfectly described why I feel that way
I mean Yellow Jacket also has that funny scene with SWORD lol. Wally Wingert is such a good voice actor, he’s also been The Riddler in the Arkham Series and even Psycho Blue in Power Rangers In Space.
Hank Pym is my favorite Avenger because of this show. Loved the video, thanks.
great vid, thanks for that. Hank is an underrated hero and this take on him as passive-fist makes him all the more compelling, thanks again, nuff said!
Earths mightiest hero’s was my introduction to most marvel icons, and is still one of my favorite tv shows. Also the intro Slaps!
Hank was actually supposed to be brainwashed by Ultron in second season. In one episode, he'll be doing his orders by kidnapping Wasp to turn her into Jocasta, but was saved by Avengers and Vision. Interesting thing is that it did happen after he became Yellow Jacket. They would have explored his mental illness more, but Man of Action....
Still, great video, man. 👍🤗
Fantastic analysis. I always felt bad for Hank. His heart was in the right place but his stance against violent made him look weak and a liability in the eyes of the Avengers. Even Wasp scolded him about it, even though she damn well knows that he is a pacifist. In the end he became the man he didn't want to be. A man who solves all his problem with violence.
Timely, after episode 3 of "What If...?"
I wonder how many people weren't as surprised at how that episode finishes, knowing about this?
I'm sure even comic readers knew it would happen due to him being Yellow Jacket and having awareness of the serious mental issues he tends to have in the comics
This is my preferred version of Hank Pym to be honest. The bad reputation he died from the comics was due to a miscommunication between the artist and writers so I’m really glad that this show took into consideration what was intended more than what happened in the comic pages
Honestly hank pym is a interesting character that aren't in most shows also I never expected him to become yellow jacket by that I knew he was yellowjacket but I never expected him to become yellowjacket in the show the only thing I wanted to see how he would act with Scott as his successor since I think Scott is in storie only also still waiting for a captain marvel episode
I LOVE THIS TAKE!! And think this is the definitive depitcion.
One of the bigger problems predominantly with comics is that almost none of the villains want to change. There are some who are reluctant, but often they enjoy their powers and the fear they can generate. Or even what their costumes generate. Even if they get locked up they resist trying to change in anyway.
I bet if EMH continues, Hank would return and become the the white mage of the Avengers. He would use his science expertise to help the Avengers.
He would heal his teammates, create suits for them, support the team when they need assistance, Slow the enemies, distract them, hinder them, hold them. Creating advantages with the help in battles.
I would also recommend Hank having high amount of Charisma for the best chance of persuasion, intimidating, and deceiving himself and the Avengers way out of fights.
Encounters can often, if not usually, be solved in many different ways.
Heck, while at it he can even be the chef and cook food for everyone.
He would finally found his place on the Avengers. Being a pacifist, a scientist and a hero.
I absolutely loved EMH Hank Pym! He became one of my favorite characters in Marvel Media.
I've heard some people hating Hank for his psychological problem, but I personally like it. Not my favorite character, but he is very interesting. I personally think that yes, Hank would have taken the next step during third season. I theorize he may have become Goliath during the Thor Croaks episode, but that's just me.
This was a fantastic video. I didn't ever really put too much thought into Hank's character, so I didn't really connect the pieces, but you're right. The way the show handles Ant-Man is great. It's a very, very interesting way to redefine the character.
Honestly, I'm just absolutely loving all this EMH content and the care and thought you put into every video.
I agree that Hank's storyline probably didn't get its true ending because the show ended after season 2... But in a way, it got an (I'm sure unintentional) ending.
It becomes a slightly dark for kids TV story about a man succumbing to his subconscious violent tendencies. This has evidence back in the first season that really only stuck out on a rewatch.
In his first appearance at the end, when we see Jan coming into the lab after he dealt with Claw. He ,very casually, asks Janet to make sure the ants don't EAT THE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED HIM. The first time you see it, it plays for humor as an almost Reed Richards-like distracted by the science moment.... On rewatch, would he have gone to check on them if Jan hadn't come back when she did? Would he have just left them to be eaten? Also, it's clearly stated that Ultron is based on Hank's own mind, and what happens when Ultron is taught violence? It goes insane and tries to kill everyone. Would Hank go that far? No, even I don't think he would. He doesn't have the same cold detachment Ultron strives for... But once he really tastes violence, does he want to stop using it? No.
So I would argue that as his story ended, in the 2 seasons we got, his pacifism was not a shield for him and his morals... But for others, from what he was afraid that he might do.
It would've been cool if we got to see Hank's pacifist methods work imagine episode about a escaped villain who became a hero after Hank helped them with the rest of the avengers being wary of the reformed villain but proven to be wrong when the villain turned hero saves them.
That would have been great!
Isn’t that kinda what happened with Scott Lang?
That would have been a good way to reform Wonder Man into joining the Avengers
Hated how much the show ignored him in the second half of the show, but now seeing how he never appears at all anywhere, I suppose o should have been glad they gave him some focus at all
When I was younger I loved this show, it gave me both the story AND the action that I required to really get into it and start seeing it more than just "Heros VS Villains," and it showed actual passion throughout its run. Unlike the MCU it didn't just want money. All in all, even though its a cartoon, it still has more integrity and passion than any MCU movie has shown in the last 5-10 years.
If the series had gotten a third season I would love if they show had continue Hank's downfall, showing he became more reckless and violent, maybe even resulting inthe infamous moment where he hurts Janet, only this time the avengers don't just kick him out of the group but actually recognize the fact they all played a role in Hank's downfall by refusing to recognizing the values of his pacifism and that not all problems can be solve just by punching someone (basically doing a role reverse, with the avengers becoming more like Hank in season 1 while he becomes more violent and willing to hurt others).
I always loved Hank and remember the Yellow Jacket episode horrifying me as a kid. I was so sad when he gave his mantle away to Scott, someone I felt didn't earn it, and I had this grand idea of Ant Man going into the MCU. Seeing Hank as a beaten down old man was devastating. The endearing way Scott was portrayed saved the character, but turning my second favorite Avenger to a footnote is something I'll never forget.
Hank started out as someone who believed in the good in all of us, and in joining the Avengers for Janet, he destroyed himself. This series was the death of the original Ant Man, and he will likely stay at rest.
It's a shame the MCU didn't do much with Hank and Janet as Avengers.
I live for your EMH video essays man
@@PillarofGarbage especially because I feel a lot of people slept on the series even though it's one of the best written superhero cartoons I've seen? Definitely stands up to the best which says a lot
If EMH continued, it would be cool if they made Hank the Mastermind of the Avengers. That he would feel comfortable and I find a place where he can enjoy being a scientist and help his friends without resulting himself into violence. Kinda like how Beast/Hank McCoy is to the X-Men.
I think it would’ve been cool to see some of Hanks patients actually grow from his lessons. Some of them correct their villainous ways and become better people.
As a kid, I LOVED Hank Pym. He was easily my favorite character in the show, and one of my favorite characters ever. And you perfectly described why I loved him so much
The writers make Hank do one awful thing while under mental problems, which admittedly is no excuse but still, and give him an arc about taking therapy, slowly fixing his relationship, and finally overcoming his issues to be a better person, but people still only talk about that single panel and vilify him.
Meanwhile, we got Charles Xavier, who has brainwashed people, wiped their memories to forget their loved ones who died, and has literally weaponized a holocaust survivor's trauma against them and still is considered a kind, caring man who leads the X-men like a loving family. Not to mention all the other heroes who did bad stuff. Have you seen some of the things Tony did when trying to force superheroes to work for the government.
I would absolutely watch a 22 minute episode about Hank Pam trying to rehabilitate one or a small group of supervillains.
The episode could simultaneously prove that the Avenger’s approach is usually right, but that Hank isn’t an idiot for trying to help. One villain made a better person would make the whole story come full circle. All it takes is a single criminal regretting or renouncing their past, and that’s all that’s needed to prove Pym might be right.
If even one in every hundred villains can be redeemed, then is Hank Pym right for wanting to try, even if the other 99 may cause more problems in the long run, or is everyone else right for trying to protect the world from the 99 even if it will forever doom the one?
A single redeemed villain proves Yellowjacket wrong, and that might be all it takes to bring back Ant-Man for good.
First video I’ve seen from this channel and I’m already hooked! You’ve gained a new subscriber
:D
In the kang episode there's a short moment of jannet seeing Hank with a "I'm sorry honey" look right after she says to Cap that she knows where to find an army to defend the earth. Like she knows how much this can break Hank if it goes wrong and clearly it did
Two thoughts:
1). I think Hank could also be wearing the Ant-Man suit when he's first introduced as a tool of both science & exploration. Before he joins the Avengers, he might have used his suit to study things from & another angle & explore places he couldn't otherwise reach (while also using it to save people from harm & fight crime when & if he ever came across it. Hank is a pacifist, but he'd rather be violent than let people come to harm, as we've seen).
2). I just noticed, Yellow Jacket's microscopic prison kind of looks like a sword from the outside. Kind of.
If we ever get a EMH season 3, I want Scott Lang to join the Avengers as the new Ant-Man but see him struggling to live up to Hank’s legacy
Especially when the entire team, Janet in particular, are, at best dismissive, and rude at worst towards Scott because all they can see when they look at him is Hank
(It really doesn’t work that when Scott put the Ant-Man costume who looked *exactly* like Hank does, so I wanted to add that factor because I thought it would be neat)
Eventually, Yellowjacket returns with a personal vendetta against Scott where the two duke it out but surprisingly, it’s Scott who wants to talk things out with Hank instead of resorting to violence
And even though Yellowjacket refuses to hear him out, Scott continues to try and reason with his predecessor as they continue to fight but you can see that Scott is really just acting out of self defense and not really trying to hurt Hank
This way, it would almost seem like it’s Hank’s previous persona, Ant-Man, with his old ideals of pacifism, rehabilitation and that everyone deserves a second chance trying to reach out to Yellowjacket, this violent persona that Hank has built after all the tragedy and trauma he went through
It would end in a bittersweet note as Yellowjacket decides not to kill Scott (for now) and disappears without a trace, and Ant-Man stares into the distance
Vowing, “No matter what Hank, I *will* bring you back. I promise…"
((Y’know what, this turned out to be a better idea than I thought. Maybe *I* should write a fanfic about this, whaddya say?))
Sucks we never got a season 3. Expanding the Avengers into a West Coast division after the Galactus debacle. Allowing Hawkeye to start his own team, with Mockingbird, War Machine, and a finally rehabilitated Wonder Man, they could’ve also wrapped up Hank’s story by letting him help them like he did in the comics. And plus since Yost claims S3 would’ve included magic and mutants they could’ve introduced Scarlet Witch to be a part of that team.
I love that this show teases Ultron from the beginning.
Excellent review! Ive avoided EMH because core Avengers is a bit cheesy and the Mcu didnt write him as part of the Avengers and even Wasp was in the first team in the comics. But its cool they mix it up
My favorite characters in this show when I
watched it as a kid were ant man because of his pasiphisem and his questioning of the moral ambiguity of his violent actions. And black panther, because he was a cool ninja.
just found this channel and I already love it.
I actually agreed with Hank a lot while watching it even back then, and yeah I'd watch the "Ant-Man treats patients show".
First impression of EMH: pffft what is this corny shit?
Two episodes in: AAALWAYS WE WILL FIGHT AS ONE
I loved loved loved this video! Perfect timing too because I was looking up Hank Pym related videos today 😊 thanks for such a grest analysis on a character greatly under appreciated in a show that is greatly underrated
It's hard out here for a Pym fan. Most series don't even want to touch him.
:((((((( ant man was my first favorite super hero
There is some kinda poetic justice for Avengers to get Yellowjacket.
In my past. I served 13 and a half years in prison. As a former inmate, I can tell you that not everyone can be rehabilitated. To tell you the truth, prisons don't actually rehabilitate inmates anymore. That's up to the individual.
If only the MCU could have used Hank. I liked Scott but first should have been Hank.
Here’s to an Ant-Man prequel?
I think after watching the show Hank Pym is my favorite character from the show and also gave me a new found appreciation for the character because before this I only knew him via the MCU
I always related to Hank Pym in this Show even as a kid and as an Adult I do so even more. I didn't realize I was in the minority. Interesting and nice video, keep up the good work my friend and most Importantly to anyone reading this I hope you have a wonderful life full of nothing but goodness and happiness and have a beautiful day/night my friends.
This was a great character study video. I would like to see one about EMH Hulk now. or any other characters for that matter.
That “eventual reintegration into society” line better be a Red Dwarf reference.
I grew up on this show, and when I first saw the trailer for the ant man films I was slightly disappointed. Especially since they had just done ultron by then. Because I was hopping to re live that rise and fall of ant man