Not so much outdated design, outdated concept. I expect yast was the best thing since sliced bread 30 years ago without a doubt. Linux has come a very long way since then and everything is easier that yast made easier 30 years ago. yast printer config sucks compared to kde plasma's own printer config, yast partition manager sucks compared to kde plasma's own partition manager (and probably gnome's printer config and gparted too), and they need to ease up on the default firewall settings so people can find their printers in their house. Every other mainstream distro finds and installs home printers before the user even goes into the printer config screen. Because of yast it's just more difficult, not to mention you have to tell yast printer config to search for printers twice to find them.
@@LowTechLinux Super annoying imo that there has been such an easily fixable inconvenience in openSUSE for so long. Would be super easy to remove one of the biggest points critics always bring up against Tumbleweed. Agreed on the YaST thing in general as well.
BTW its not 100% required to have a different name to protect their trademark. They could instead grant an exclusive license to the OpenSuse organization to use it. That would also protect their trademark and make no one else have a legal claim to it without a license.
as it so happens, this just hit the email group: "When I was a board member years ago, we had some discussions with a SUSE manager. IIRC (I might mis-remember after all these years) we also discussed the worst-case scenario and got an offer to have a contract between SUSE and the foundation that - should SUSE ever stop supporting openSUSE, become evil etc. - the foundation would get the openSUSE trademark, and would be allowed to continue using it."
how's removal of yast is good? it doesn't replace anything in linux, it's an addition, so you can do anything the "usual linux way" without touching yast or even knowing it exists. something is better than nothing. you can be a total noob and still find needed settings there just clicking around. however if you go the terminal way you need to know and follow very precise syntax which is problematic for new users. to say that yast has to go is like to say that classic control panel in windows has to go. yes, it's silly from microsoft to drag its legacy setting hub along this way, but from the end user standpoint it's good to have this well known and very functional alternative to do stuff. you bring kde setting argument, but it seems irrelevant to me. firstly, yast is de-agnostic, it's there distro-wide no matter the de (or lack of it). secondly, if you prefer kde settings then use it, no problem with yast being there. thirdly, your printer detection problem isn't a yast problem per ce, it's a default state/settings problem. the firewall settings stop you from pnping your printers, not the yast itself, so it's a legit concern, but then again irrelevant to the yast situation.
I'll admit I'm probably being a little harsh on yast... however, it's not as simple as just use the kde tool, yast prevents kde plasma's printer config from working. For example, install kubuntu. reboot, go to kde plasma printer config, printer is probably already installed and ready to use. contrast with opensuse, install opensuse kde, reboot, go into kde plasma printer config. can't add printer because yast locks it out. go into yast. (assumming you have already fixed the firewall isssue), go to yast printer config, click add printer. it searches for a minute and finds nothing. click search more, it finds printers. on a small screen it's hard to select the option you want, select the printer and add it. At the very least have a button that releases control back to the DE. I'd be happy with that.
@@LowTechLinux well, as i said, and now you're confirming it - it's a real but very isolated feature/setting/config problem. you don't need to remove yast with everything it offers to solve it, you can either remove the printers subsystem from yast or change the default setting to release control to the de or just add a reconfiguration page during the installation process. fine by me. but for the rest of its functionality - it just an exhaustive gui for the majority of settings and functions. and it's a huge selling point that actually makes opensuse quite unique as opposed to any other distro.
@EasyGameEh that's all true. I just want it to be easier for the new user. Yes, I can do all those things but when a new user tries Opensuse and can't get their printers to work, but other distros do without even trying, it's not an good look for opensuse. Hence the niche question/answer
went home to dig a little deeper and found you are correct. I'm no longer a yast hater, if you haven't watched it please do: ruclips.net/video/4DMx3wwR7sU/видео.html
You will take Yast out of my cold dead hands first!Yast is the best thing about opensuse!Yea it has some quirks, but what distro doesn't have quirks these days?
Community input is being requested at this time. Afaict they will likely take many of the suggestions and put them to a poll. None of this is likely to happen very soon as the discussion has just started and SUSE has assured all there is no hurry, no rush.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Why dont you like yast? Outdated design?
Not so much outdated design, outdated concept. I expect yast was the best thing since sliced bread 30 years ago without a doubt. Linux has come a very long way since then and everything is easier that yast made easier 30 years ago. yast printer config sucks compared to kde plasma's own printer config, yast partition manager sucks compared to kde plasma's own partition manager (and probably gnome's printer config and gparted too), and they need to ease up on the default firewall settings so people can find their printers in their house.
Every other mainstream distro finds and installs home printers before the user even goes into the printer config screen. Because of yast it's just more difficult, not to mention you have to tell yast printer config to search for printers twice to find them.
@@LowTechLinux Super annoying imo that there has been such an easily fixable inconvenience in openSUSE for so long. Would be super easy to remove one of the biggest points critics always bring up against Tumbleweed. Agreed on the YaST thing in general as well.
absolutely yes. It would/should be a very easy fix.
BTW its not 100% required to have a different name to protect their trademark. They could instead grant an exclusive license to the OpenSuse organization to use it. That would also protect their trademark and make no one else have a legal claim to it without a license.
as it so happens, this just hit the email group:
"When I was a board member years ago, we had some discussions with a SUSE
manager. IIRC (I might mis-remember after all these years) we also
discussed the worst-case scenario and got an offer to have a contract
between SUSE and the foundation that - should SUSE ever stop supporting
openSUSE, become evil etc. - the foundation would get the openSUSE
trademark, and would be allowed to continue using it."
how's removal of yast is good? it doesn't replace anything in linux, it's an addition, so you can do anything the "usual linux way" without touching yast or even knowing it exists. something is better than nothing. you can be a total noob and still find needed settings there just clicking around. however if you go the terminal way you need to know and follow very precise syntax which is problematic for new users. to say that yast has to go is like to say that classic control panel in windows has to go. yes, it's silly from microsoft to drag its legacy setting hub along this way, but from the end user standpoint it's good to have this well known and very functional alternative to do stuff.
you bring kde setting argument, but it seems irrelevant to me. firstly, yast is de-agnostic, it's there distro-wide no matter the de (or lack of it). secondly, if you prefer kde settings then use it, no problem with yast being there. thirdly, your printer detection problem isn't a yast problem per ce, it's a default state/settings problem. the firewall settings stop you from pnping your printers, not the yast itself, so it's a legit concern, but then again irrelevant to the yast situation.
I'll admit I'm probably being a little harsh on yast... however, it's not as simple as just use the kde tool, yast prevents kde plasma's printer config from working.
For example, install kubuntu. reboot, go to kde plasma printer config, printer is probably already installed and ready to use.
contrast with opensuse, install opensuse kde, reboot, go into kde plasma printer config. can't add printer because yast locks it out. go into yast. (assumming you have already fixed the firewall isssue), go to yast printer config, click add printer. it searches for a minute and finds nothing. click search more, it finds printers. on a small screen it's hard to select the option you want, select the printer and add it.
At the very least have a button that releases control back to the DE. I'd be happy with that.
@@LowTechLinux well, as i said, and now you're confirming it - it's a real but very isolated feature/setting/config problem. you don't need to remove yast with everything it offers to solve it, you can either remove the printers subsystem from yast or change the default setting to release control to the de or just add a reconfiguration page during the installation process. fine by me. but for the rest of its functionality - it just an exhaustive gui for the majority of settings and functions. and it's a huge selling point that actually makes opensuse quite unique as opposed to any other distro.
@EasyGameEh that's all true. I just want it to be easier for the new user. Yes, I can do all those things but when a new user tries Opensuse and can't get their printers to work, but other distros do without even trying, it's not an good look for opensuse. Hence the niche question/answer
went home to dig a little deeper and found you are correct. I'm no longer a yast hater, if you haven't watched it please do:
ruclips.net/video/4DMx3wwR7sU/видео.html
You will take Yast out of my cold dead hands first!Yast is the best thing about opensuse!Yea it has some quirks, but what distro doesn't have quirks these days?
Why?I like Yast!
ruclips.net/video/4DMx3wwR7sU/видео.html
There Will be a poll? Users can vote? Or all this debates are useless because At the end SUSE Will decide whatever they want?
Community input is being requested at this time. Afaict they will likely take many of the suggestions and put them to a poll. None of this is likely to happen very soon as the discussion has just started and SUSE has assured all there is no hurry, no rush.
They had good logos and branding, the new logos all suck.