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It's not like the US had a problem with recruiting actual German Nazis if they were useful to them. Not only was the majority of the early US missile/space program run by German scientists and Engineers, but also a lot of the intelligence services picked up former Nazis. Especially former members of the division "Fremde Heere Ost" (literally "foreign armies east", the military intelligence service of the Wehrmacht focused on Eastern Europe) were recruited in order to continue fighting the Soviets (only this time in a cold war instead of WW2). So recruiting a Finn who just happened to fight along side some Nazis, because they were also fighting against his sworn enemies, doesn't seem out of place at all.
Perhaps an inspiration for the lyrics of "Universal soldier" as well? Probably he wouldn't have fought for the (communist) Russians, however.. "And he's fighting for Canada, he's fighting for France, he's fighting for the USA, and he's fighting for the Russians and he's fighting for Japan, and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way"
Törni's face in the thumbnail has THE MOST Finnish expression possible: enough talk, time to hassle. A really good and informative episode, I surely enjoyed it. Thanks! 🤘
Men and women in those colder countries like Russia and Finland have a badassery those of us in warmer countries are unable to comprehend. I live in Western Canada, British Columbia specifically, and although it does get pretty cold occasionally, it's nowhere near as cold as Eastern Canada. Someone in Western Canada: "It's cold." Someone in Eastern Canada: *LAUGHS IN FRENCH CANADIAN*
A quick search tells me Finland is both one of the most introverted nations in the world but also one of the happiest. Well they gave us Nightwish so I guess that checks out.
The phrase "The enemy of my enemy" comes to mind when talking about Finland fighting alongside Germany. They fought FOR Finnish Independence, NOT for Hitler's ideology.
@CJED In that case you can also say that the United States helped Germany kill millions by way of ignorance, waiting to join the war until they themselves were attacked.
That it really was, and by the way the president and the parliament of Finland were democratically elected. Contrary to what they here speak Nazi Germany in 1939 was extremely hostile towards Finland: they made a pact with S.U. in which Hitler gave free hands to Stalins to do what ever he wanted. A Nazi delecation was send to Finland in late 1939. The aim however was not to give any aid to Finland but to look up what potential resourcies they could rob from Finland after the Red Army has conquered it. Nazies were quite suprized that it didn’t happen. During early 1940 there were some singnals of attitude chance among leading Nazies but there were also extremely bitter fealings among Finns towards them. Germans betrayed them once so why to believe at all what they are saying? The situation changed after Nazi Germany occupied Denmark and Norway and crushed France, Belgia and Holland. And because S.U. kept pressing Finland militarily Nazi Germany was really the only option she had.
For more context: There was a kind of soldier brotherhood between the Finnish soldiers and the German soldiers. This feeling of comradery prevented many from attacking German soldiers in the Lapland's war. Mannerheim hated Hitler, and knowing Hitler was anti-smoking, he lit a cigar/cigarette in his presence. He didn't seem to be a big fan of the National Socialism either, and so the ideology wasn't nearly as popular as you'd think, the only thing I know that Jews in Finland had to suffer was the fact that they were not permitted to own shops during the Continuation War.
A fairly recent finnish study (in english) on finnish soldiers in the Waffen-SS for those who want to know more: arkisto.fi/uploads/Julkaisut/sarjajulkaisut/SS-VOLUNTEERS_verkkoon.pdf
I have heard that one also, it just seems odd to me because of the background of Mannerheim, he was a man who lived in really high class and his manners were similar to his class and he had also served with high rank in the Russian army + had encounters with the Tsar during those times, it seems weird that he would have disrespected someone directly like that especially the leader of a country Finland needed for help
@@ristusnotta1653 The only thing I've heard Mannerheim do that could be seen as disrespectful was not removing his gloves when shaking hands with Hitler. Also not sure if one should say that Mannerheim lived a high class life, at least for most of his early life. He was certainly aristocracy, but his father ran away with a mistress and a large amount of gambling debts and his mother died when he was only 14 years old. So not exactly an exuberant lifestyle that followed him.
@@lavrentivs9891 yeah thats what i ment by high class his way of thinking and manners and his family life was also pretty "high class", there is an interview with his family member who talked about what they went trough daily even during eating
Kari Kallonen and Petri Sarjanen have made a book trilogy about Lauri Törni. Leijonamieli(Mind of a lion) 1919-1949. Purppurasydän(Purple heart) 1949-1965 and finally Ristiretki(Crusade) 1949-1999 - The authors were part of the search party who found his remains. I do not know if the trilogy has been done any other languages than finnish.
it is a good move that you opened that question about countries cooperating with nazi germany... was it ideological? was it opportunistíc? i am glad you are spreading the facts (especially : i really dig the moments when you acknowledge the fact that there are more possible stories how sthg. happened and dont go any "dogmatic" way of history interpretation).. please, continute.. do more detailed stories even on older topics you did a year ago.. there is sooo much to explain and tell... i am increasing my financing on patreon.. THANK YOU!
@Marek Schwarzmann Lets say, that there were several nations who treated germany as an opportunistic ally like Finland, Romania, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, again it was both ideological and opportunistic for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania (althought they were treated like some kind of territories under new management to me, so.) less so for Romania and Finland since Romania and Finland were indeed fighting for their survival and when the situation of germany was deteriorating really fast well Romania and Finland then decided to fight with the soviets in order to just survive and avoid getting eaten by the soviets (which didn't turned well for Romania in the end), again germany didn't trust alot of his "allies" except for hungary who got the most attention all from the minor eastern countries who were part of the axis and yet again, Romania and Finland are still a big debate so I'll just stop right there.
@@Mysteres78979 In the 1920s and 1930s Finland was actually quite fascist in some ways and right leaning, with communists being tossed around and smuggled to the eastern border and told: "Go to the Soviet Union if you like communism so much !!!" Many of them went there forced and some voluntarily. Many of them naturally were killed in Stalin's mass killings. This trajectory to high voltage fascism was ended though in 1932 when the president of Finland Mr. Svinhufvud basically said "ok that's enough boys, we are a democracy so time to behave." This was a great move since when the Winter War broke out the social democrats and other lefties didn't start a revolt but joined the war frontier united.
dont forget about Slovakia - the ww2 officially started when nazi germany AND first slovak republik declared war on poland... which is quite interresting and not often debated as well...
@@K0ukku Facist? *Laughing* If it was really facist then I can only imagine finland acting like Italy so sorry but I don't think that what you are saying really stand up to reality.
Joakim, bringing up the fact that the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is still being watched over despite the Corona virus really shouldn't be that surprising. Those men are dedicated to that duty, though they don't see it as a duty but as an honor. I mean they kept watch over the the tomb even during a hurricane back in 2012.
Besides, I'm pretty sure they aren't really risking getting infected on duty, unless there are a lot of asshats deciding to visit the graves during the quarantine.
Additionally on 9/11 the tomb sentinels debated whether or not to leave their post and decided to stay. Probably the closest the tomb of the unknown soldier has come to not being watched
I think he meant "we are doing this because of corona virus" trilogy, you know because they are doing three episodes about the song from their homes instead of a studio
New Vegas 'Larry Thorne' playthough: Join House and fight the Legion. Abandon House & join Yes Man and keep fighting the Legion. Abandon Yes Man & join the NCR and then fight the Legion again.
I went to Arlington when I was in the 6th grade with my family and I saw Audie Murphy's grave. I didn't know about Lauri Torni (Larry Thorn) at the time. So I probably saw his grave without knowing who he was.
You mentioned the grave of the unknown soldier during the video. In Finland many (if not most) graveyards have a small monument for the unknown soldier. Also there are soldiers graves in most graveyards because the dead soldiers were sent to their hometowns for burial during Winter and Continual war.
Everyone is so caught up in reality TV and the BS of today. I, on the other hand, am a simple man. I love metal. I'm a history buff and I love military stuff. I would rather relax by listening to Sabaton and learning about the stories of their songs. Thank you Sabaton History, and thank you Sabaton.
A great episode as always. A few comments from a Finnish history enthusiast: Larry was not really a big talker or language learner so he barely spoke any German. He was already a second lieutenant when arriving to Waffen-SS training in German June 1941 with other Finnish Waffen-SS volunteers. Larry wasn't also a really big fan of preussian military discipline and keeping it by-the-book at the barracks grounds. Also he liked to drink. All these things combined didn't make him an excellent officer/NCO candidate to the German officers who were assembling the 5th Waffen-SS "Viking Division" in 1941. So he was sent home in late summer of 1941 with just a handful of other Finnish men (most of the Finnish Waffen-SS volunteers fought in the Eastern front 1941-1943). How exactly he made that trip back to Finland - I'm not so sure. The second and last point: The Winter War was in my opinion and by many others a big defensive victory. Finland remained it's independence and the Soviets did not interfere with Finnish politics (a big issue!). However, the Continuation War was different. I consider it a massive loss even though Finland kept it's independence. Why I consider it a loss? All the patriotic movements were forced to shut down immediately, the Finnish war heroes and great politicians who kept Finland independent (Mr. Ryti for example) were imprisoned. The communists were allowed to come from the underground to the daylight and to politics. The communists manned the important cultural posts, like the Finnish national broadcasting company. The Finnish communists had power, and the years 1944-1948 were really tricky. Many feared (SS-men for example) that they would be deported to Siberia. It was heavily rumoured that in March 1948 there would be a communist coup de tat in Finland by the communists, but luckily, the Finnish communists really sucked and it never happened. Stalin did knew about the arms caching case (veterans gearing up for a guerrilla war) and I believe he thought a Finnish coup de tat backed by the Soviets would be a really shitty situation for Stalin, and he had already enough problems in Germany with the ex-Allies. This Finnish loss in the Continuation War is still visible today in various ways, please come visit Helsinki and I tell you more!
This ought to be good. Skype really isn't known for great quality but I want to hear more of his story. Thanks guys. And with the Finnish army joining the Germans, that was clear. And given how things went between the Fins and the Soviets, I don't blame them for taking a side.
@gillecroisd 92 The Winter war was an excellent casus belli for the Finnish to start advancing to Karelia and other Finnish areas. Finland actually joined the Eastern front advance a few days later after 22nd June when the Soviets bombed cities in Finland. Then Finland declared war to Soviets. Actually Hermann Göring hinted in the early 1940s that "Finland would get all lost land areas back with an interest." when Finland was bargaining with Stalin to stop the Winter War. So the German High command knew that they would attack the Soviet Union later and they would need Finland to secure the northern flank. Politically, it would have been pretty hard for the neutral Finland to join Axis powers in 1941 to attack the Russians if the Winter War never happened. This is a pretty interesting question though! After the Great War, around 1918-1920 there was a lot of skirmishes in the Karelian areas, which were considered Finnish areas with Karelian people living there. At this time Soviet union was in a big civil war, so there was maybe some thought of Finland acquiring the Karelian lands if the Russian Whites would end up victorious.
Sabaton history during the week and Great Saturdays at the weekend! Lockdown may be stressful but at least I'm learning new things! Great video as always gents, looking forward to part 3!
7 people misclicked thumbs up accidentally sadly for i cant believe anyone disliked this on purpose. Lauri Törni a hero to Scandinavia :). The last true viking and sisu jäger
Do think if Lauri Törni and Simo Hiaha ever met each other they would become good friends? I mean they both shared a deep hatred for the soviet invasion of Finland.
Going by the little I know I feel like Simo was quite a bit less passionate in his hate (I don't know that I've heard anything about him hating them, just that it he didn't feel anything when killing them) and he feels less like a soldier and more like a hunter if that makes any sense. What I've learnt about Lauri (again I know pretty much nothing) I'd say that he took it much more personally and to reuse the comparison, I think he was more warrior than soldier. Again, I know very little about either.
Simo Häyhä wasn't as warlike. He considered the whole Winter War a series of hunting trips. He didn't love war like Lauri Törni did, Simo just liked shooting... a lot. There's quite a big difference there
We have a white rose bush in the back yard of the variety 'John F Kennedy' . It is a variety breed to be planted around JFK and RFKes graves at Arlington National Cemetery. Grew up near DC so I have been there many times. Always makes me cry.
Recently discovered these guys about a month ago and I’m ADDICTED to their music! Plus learning a thing or two along the way. Want to see them in September, hopefully they’re still coming to Missouri!
Visited Audie Murphy last December, amazing how his grave always has tributes on it. I myself placed a miniture American flag on his grave as a sign of respect
My grandfather is buried in Arlington Nation Cemetary. He fought in the Korean War, I wish I knew about him, so I could see his grave. Seeing Joakim there made my day, he'd had loved someone visiting the cemetary he rests in.
This really is one of my favourite songs, it is just so energetic!! But now a rant about history classes: First of all, I am good in it, I have 15 points an A plus! But, two weeks ago we discussed how the first world war started. Last week we discussed about the war itself, and Shell Shock. But, this week we are already talking about the Weimar Republic. I accept that the First World War is not the most important topic, but seriously? 90 minutes about the First World War? That is just not enough!! We didn‘t talk about: any troop movements, the German Navy, fighting in Russia, the trench system, technical inventions, Nothing! Not about Verun, Arras, The Somme, Ypern, Paschendale, NOTHING I am seriously angry because we didn‘t talk about what the war brought, not the starving in Germany, really just nothing! The War has so many different facets and we did discussed just a little little bit and that is really sad!
I'd like to see Ken Burns partner with Indy and Sabaton to make a docu-series about Lauri Törni. So far, the closest we've ever had to a movie about him was "The Green Berets" where John Wayne's character, COL Mike Kirby, was based on him.
I've heard that his museum tends to gloss over the Finnish Civil War a bit, try to find a book that mentions that as it was pretty important for his career if I don't misremember things.
@@RannonSi I once wrote a paper on Mannerheim in school and visited the site of his heritage foundation... and in their biography they literally skipped the civil war of 1918. It went something like "After the October revolution, Mannerheim returned to Finland in late 1917. IN 1919...." So yes, his idolizers do whitewash his image.
-URSS (& millions mens strong Red Army) : *WE'RE TAKING YOUR CITY AND YOUR FAMILY HOUSE.* -Lauri Törni (all alone) : I'll take it back, 'tiz just a matter of days. See ya. Cheers. -Lauri Törni's mom : good son. Be quick, I forgot a chicken in the oven. The key is under the doormat as usual.
Derp! Fighting fire with fire works more quickly than with water. You use a bigger fire or explosion to exhaust all the oxygen around the burning area and the fire will instantly extinguish due to lack of oxygen. Fighting fire with fire is the best way to actually fight fire.
@@heneraldodzz4978 Of course not, but I think he just means in terms of production ability & general epicness. Which plenty other good folks are capable of ;)
As it happens there already is one which deals with it a bit (though only a bit of his US service). The Green Berets (1968) featuring John Wayne and the lot. It in turn is based on the novel The Green Berets (1965) by Robin Moore - where one of the characters, Captain Steve (Sven) Kornie who apparently is the basis for movie's Major Kirby (played by John Wayne), is actually based on Larry Thorne (Lauri Törni).
I always got confused because of the toomb of the unkown soldier sence always i hear "the unknown soldier" i think of the Väinö Linna book with the same name and the movie also
I’ve been to that graveyard a few years back... it’s got one hell of a presence... you walk through it and it fells like it’s pulling you a few feet’s into hell
going to Arlington really puts things into perspective. It really makes you think about the sacrifice that is made, and for instance, The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, it is always scary silent, i would say bone chilling. Even when my color guard group put a wreath in front it, it was bone chilling.
I know a lot of Latvian and Estonian soldiers fought with the Nazis because they felt they needed help against the Soviets, but felt they'd easily toss the Nazis out once they were free of the Soviets. I'm sure many Finns felt the same way, and unfortunately the Estonians and Latvians suffered the Soviets for a very long time.
After Lauri returned from Germany to Finland after WW2 Lauri was convicted of treason because he went to Germany while Finland was at war with Germany.
What is funny is that during the Finns training under the SS, it was recorded in quite a few books that even though the SS tried to indoctrinate the Finns to their ideology, none cared. They were there to learn to be better soldiers/leaders. Törni especially. In addition, it was noted that Finnish Jews fought alongside the Germans, in their various missions, with zero issues. Also, in a number of books, the Finnish Jews and Germans actually got along well. And a huge chunk of the story is missing. 1) Törni went back to Germany, after Finland acquiesced to Russian terms, to continue to fight Russians. With a group of other Finns, he went back to Germany for more training in case Russia invaded Finland again. Getting stuck in Germany he continued to fight Russians via underground units. 2) After the fall of Germany, he did surrender to an Allied unit (British) with Russians on his tail. Story goes, by multiple accounts, that the Russians knew who he was and wanted him. After a standoff, with the British troops and Russian troops pulling their weapons on each other, needless to say, Törni was held in an British camp. And of course he escaped and made it back to Finland.
A guy that hates communism but be a good person. However, I think the story of the Korean soldier of three armies (Yang Kyoungjong) is more interesting because he fought for three sides in the SAME war..... a unique case.
Depends on how you look at it. Törni always fought on the same ideological side of WW2 and followed it up later in Vietnam, he was a volunteer for each army, and he was if not necessarily promoted, then atleast kept his rank through them, and generally being a badass in all of it. Yang was drafted, captured, drafted, captured, drafted and killed (or if the movie is accurate, traded identities ,but still died). It's more of an impressive survival feat, rather than a show of badassery.
I know this just came out and I am looking forward to hearing about Lauri's service in the Green Berets, but I noticed there's no video about Uprising yet. I'd love to see a video covering the Warsaw Uprising and the Polish resistance. When is it coming out?
@Sabaton History Dankeschön für das ❤️👍🏻!!! Bitte macht euch keine Gedanken wegen den Albums ! It’s all good in these days 😊liebe grüße Alex 😘my only wish is that we all stay safe and healthy
Larry got a memorial place in family grave in Malmi`s cemetery in Helsinki Finland, but his remains were buried with three south Vietnamese air force men. one reason for why Larry isn't in sacred ground in Finland is after the helicopter accident bodies were in such condition after decades on the ground they couldn't separate them. So they didn't want to bury a "wrong person" in cemetery in Malmi
I was listening to a podcast of a soldier who served 18 years in special operations but he said the hardest thing he did in the military was a two year billet at the tomb of the unknown soldier. The guy was in Delta Force for a time.....
Did he mention why? Is it because he had to think about the dead soldiers, see all the griefing families or because he got disillusioned about whether the people were worth dying for?
German and US Army: from a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you hate the color red? Lauri Torni: *how to count pass infinity* German and US Army: alright, that's the only answer we need
so i was looking through the videos of this channel and could not find a video about the ghost division. i feel like i would love to see the history about that phantom division ;P
Hello, I am writing to you from Finland. Finland owes about 3,000 Estonian soldiers. They are called "sons of Finland", they came across the sea to help Finland in the winter war, and in the continuation war. Their story should be made into a song, Finland could thank Estonia, and the sons of Finland. The Soviets hunted them down when they returned home. They lived in our forests... some until Estonia was liberated. They had the motto "For the freedom of Finland and the honor of Estonia"
Well, when I was a kid my family went to DC on vacation and we went on the whole grand tour, but thinking it through later after To Hell and Back it doesn't really count since I remember very little. Would be kind of disrespectful if I claimed it had any effect on me at all.
Soooooo a few things. As far as I know and but the looks of that Arlington stone that's not actually a grave but a memorial, as he died in an helicopter crash on a highly confidential mission his remains were not recovered. Another option is they recovered some remains but couldn't really identify them so they have a collective grave,it's something you see in British cemeteries as well with RAF crews. Also,I couldn't agree more with Joakim on the fact that you gotta show some respect. Military cemeteries are a great way to grab a hold of a wars cost. My experience is mainly with Commonwealth ones but as I am also a militaria collector is incredible seeing the unit insignia in most of the gravestones. Can't wait for part three,silver wings upon his chest!!!!!
His remains were discovered in 1999 and brought back to USA. He was buried with full military honors in Arlington cemetery in 2003. So it is an actual grave not just a memorial.
Just from hearing things from this video I don't hold it against the Finnish for accepting aid from Germany cause sounds like it was just to kick the Soviet Union out of Finland not cause they agreed with Hitlers ideals
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US: Wait, didn't you fought with the Germans?
Lauri Törni: *COMMUNISM IS A LIE*
US: Oh, okay, welcome to the US Army
Lauri: DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM
It's not like the US had a problem with recruiting actual German Nazis if they were useful to them. Not only was the majority of the early US missile/space program run by German scientists and Engineers, but also a lot of the intelligence services picked up former Nazis. Especially former members of the division "Fremde Heere Ost" (literally "foreign armies east", the military intelligence service of the Wehrmacht focused on Eastern Europe) were recruited in order to continue fighting the Soviets (only this time in a cold war instead of WW2).
So recruiting a Finn who just happened to fight along side some Nazis, because they were also fighting against his sworn enemies, doesn't seem out of place at all.
US:Why should we accept you into the Army?
Lauri: I hate commies.
US: Welcome to the Army Sir!
"Well Lauri, seems this war is over. What will you do now?"
"Find another war, where I can kill communists"
@@TheBigOne0305 nothing wrong with recruiting german scientists.. they were not war criminals.
Color Red: *exists*
Lauri: *[ANGER]*
The living embodiment of "I'll rest when I die"
Perhaps an inspiration for the lyrics of "Universal soldier" as well? Probably he wouldn't have fought for the (communist) Russians, however..
"And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way"
Maybe "before death?"?
The Finnish Army: The Stone on the Soviet's shoe
Starring:
Simo Häyhä; and
Lauri Törni
and many many more but they just aren't famous
@@Postidemoni Have been wondering about the same thing, it is really sad that Juutilainen and others havent gotten the fame of Häyhä and Törni
@@Postidemoni why is that
@@Postidemoni i think it was aarne juutilainen who became an alcoholist not ilmari juutilainen
What about Mannerheim who lead the army, made defence works and retained structure during Both wars
Törni's face in the thumbnail has THE MOST Finnish expression possible: enough talk, time to hassle.
A really good and informative episode, I surely enjoyed it. Thanks! 🤘
I can confirm that us Finns are all like that.
Men and women in those colder countries like Russia and Finland have a badassery those of us in warmer countries are unable to comprehend. I live in Western Canada, British Columbia specifically, and although it does get pretty cold occasionally, it's nowhere near as cold as Eastern Canada.
Someone in Western Canada: "It's cold."
Someone in Eastern Canada: *LAUGHS IN FRENCH CANADIAN*
Why do I always see you?
@@Driga_ Because I'm a Sabaton / history enthusiast?
A quick search tells me Finland is both one of the most introverted nations in the world but also one of the happiest. Well they gave us Nightwish so I guess that checks out.
The phrase "The enemy of my enemy" comes to mind when talking about Finland fighting alongside Germany. They fought FOR Finnish Independence, NOT for Hitler's ideology.
@CJED In that case you can also say that the United States helped Germany kill millions by way of ignorance, waiting to join the war until they themselves were attacked.
That it really was, and by the way the president and the parliament of Finland were democratically elected.
Contrary to what they here speak Nazi Germany in 1939 was extremely hostile towards Finland: they made a pact with S.U. in which Hitler gave free hands to Stalins to do what ever he wanted. A Nazi delecation was send to Finland in late 1939. The aim however was not to give any aid to Finland but to look up what potential resourcies they could rob from Finland after the Red Army has conquered it. Nazies were quite suprized that it didn’t happen.
During early 1940 there were some singnals of attitude chance among leading Nazies but there were also extremely bitter fealings among Finns towards them. Germans betrayed them once so why to believe at all what they are saying? The situation changed after Nazi Germany occupied Denmark and Norway and crushed France, Belgia and Holland. And because S.U. kept pressing Finland militarily Nazi Germany was really the only option she had.
@CJED Using your logic Great Britain helped Stalin and his butcher commies to murder millions.
"All of your songs are very serious"
laughs in Metal Machine
TheAngryDie20 Metal crue too
"I need to take a shit" - Joakim
@@DC-ru5xz He was talking about military history. Metal Crue isn't military
COME TOUCH MY METAL MACHINE!
Kevin Yonathan ITS CLOSE TO MIDNIGHT AND HES BARKING AT THE MOON
For more context: There was a kind of soldier brotherhood between the Finnish soldiers and the German soldiers. This feeling of comradery prevented many from attacking German soldiers in the Lapland's war.
Mannerheim hated Hitler, and knowing Hitler was anti-smoking, he lit a cigar/cigarette in his presence. He didn't seem to be a big fan of the National Socialism either, and so the ideology wasn't nearly as popular as you'd think, the only thing I know that Jews in Finland had to suffer was the fact that they were not permitted to own shops during the Continuation War.
A fairly recent finnish study (in english) on finnish soldiers in the Waffen-SS for those who want to know more: arkisto.fi/uploads/Julkaisut/sarjajulkaisut/SS-VOLUNTEERS_verkkoon.pdf
I have heard that one also, it just seems odd to me because of the background of Mannerheim, he was a man who lived in really high class and his manners were similar to his class and he had also served with high rank in the Russian army + had encounters with the Tsar during those times, it seems weird that he would have disrespected someone directly like that especially the leader of a country Finland needed for help
@@ristusnotta1653 The only thing I've heard Mannerheim do that could be seen as disrespectful was not removing his gloves when shaking hands with Hitler.
Also not sure if one should say that Mannerheim lived a high class life, at least for most of his early life. He was certainly aristocracy, but his father ran away with a mistress and a large amount of gambling debts and his mother died when he was only 14 years old. So not exactly an exuberant lifestyle that followed him.
@@lavrentivs9891 yeah thats what i ment by high class his way of thinking and manners and his family life was also pretty "high class", there is an interview with his family member who talked about what they went trough daily even during eating
Ooof. anyone that sticks it to that monster, in the gestures, is good enough in my books
"We are not commentators, we are storytellers "
And that is why I love Sabaton, well after the awesome music of course.
When someone hates communism so much that he joins 3 armies to fight it.
First of all, nice Vader shirt Indy
Second, Lauri Törni could have his own movie trilogy
Indiana Jones yes, but not one made by Hollywood.
Indiana Jones yes, but not one made by Hollywood.
Well, he did inspire John Wayne's character in the Green Berets movie.
10 Episode HBO Mini-series.
@Steve Guild yes, like band of brothers
"we are not Dutchmen, we fight to tooth and nail"
I take offense to that Lauri!
Don't be angry at Lauri for that. It was Paasikivi who said that.
His motto also was that admitting facts is the root of all wisdom.
I have been waiting on this episode
Soldier of three armies is one of my favorite songs
12:58 Joakim: Larry Alan Thorne
Auto subtitles: Larry Allen porn
@Zachary Durocher Shhhh don't ask don't tell...
Really cool episode,this man's life could fill three books😂 stay safe and keep up the good work🤟🏻
Thank you! It could definitely fill more than three episodes!
Kari Kallonen and Petri Sarjanen have made a book trilogy about Lauri Törni. Leijonamieli(Mind of a lion) 1919-1949. Purppurasydän(Purple heart) 1949-1965 and finally Ristiretki(Crusade) 1949-1999 - The authors were part of the search party who found his remains. I do not know if the trilogy has been done any other languages than finnish.
@@petrisyrja-kokkila7103 thank you for the info!
*When the snow starts speaking Finnish*
Russians: Why do I hear Boss music??
Netro Lancer “for the second time!?”
SS: So where do you want to be put?
Lauri: Put me where Communism is, I'll give em hell
it is a good move that you opened that question about countries cooperating with nazi germany... was it ideological? was it opportunistíc? i am glad you are spreading the facts (especially : i really dig the moments when you acknowledge the fact that there are more possible stories how sthg. happened and dont go any "dogmatic" way of history interpretation).. please, continute.. do more detailed stories even on older topics you did a year ago.. there is sooo much to explain and tell... i am increasing my financing on patreon.. THANK YOU!
Thank you! We are definitely looking into doing more 2- or 3-parter to go more in depth.
@Marek Schwarzmann Lets say, that there were several nations who treated germany as an opportunistic ally like Finland, Romania, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, again it was both ideological and opportunistic for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania (althought they were treated like some kind of territories under new management to me, so.) less so for Romania and Finland since Romania and Finland were indeed fighting for their survival and when the situation of germany was deteriorating really fast well Romania and Finland then decided to fight with the soviets in order to just survive and avoid getting eaten by the soviets (which didn't turned well for Romania in the end), again germany didn't trust alot of his "allies" except for hungary who got the most attention all from the minor eastern countries who were part of the axis and yet again, Romania and Finland are still a big debate so I'll just stop right there.
@@Mysteres78979 In the 1920s and 1930s Finland was actually quite fascist in some ways and right leaning, with communists being tossed around and smuggled to the eastern border and told: "Go to the Soviet Union if you like communism so much !!!" Many of them went there forced and some voluntarily. Many of them naturally were killed in Stalin's mass killings. This trajectory to high voltage fascism was ended though in 1932 when the president of Finland Mr. Svinhufvud basically said "ok that's enough boys, we are a democracy so time to behave." This was a great move since when the Winter War broke out the social democrats and other lefties didn't start a revolt but joined the war frontier united.
dont forget about Slovakia - the ww2 officially started when nazi germany AND first slovak republik declared war on poland... which is quite interresting and not often debated as well...
@@K0ukku Facist? *Laughing*
If it was really facist then I can only imagine finland acting like Italy so sorry but I don't think that what you are saying really stand up to reality.
Soldier of 3 armies 2: electric boogooloo
Joakim, bringing up the fact that the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is still being watched over despite the Corona virus really shouldn't be that surprising. Those men are dedicated to that duty, though they don't see it as a duty but as an honor. I mean they kept watch over the the tomb even during a hurricane back in 2012.
Besides, I'm pretty sure they aren't really risking getting infected on duty, unless there are a lot of asshats deciding to visit the graves during the quarantine.
Additionally on 9/11 the tomb sentinels debated whether or not to leave their post and decided to stay. Probably the closest the tomb of the unknown soldier has come to not being watched
"We are doing this because of corona virus trilogy". Does Indy knows something? :O
I think he meant "we are doing this because of corona virus" trilogy, you know because they are doing three episodes about the song from their homes instead of a studio
1:09 Finland is like: It's that the best you got? Come at me!
Liberty Prime: I tip my hat to you. One legend to another.
Lauri Törni: **tips hat**
Both: Death is a preferable alternative to communism.
Ha
New Vegas 'Larry Thorne' playthough: Join House and fight the Legion. Abandon House & join Yes Man and keep fighting the Legion. Abandon Yes Man & join the NCR and then fight the Legion again.
I went to Arlington when I was in the 6th grade with my family and I saw Audie Murphy's grave. I didn't know about Lauri Torni (Larry Thorn) at the time. So I probably saw his grave without knowing who he was.
8:09 As a dutchman, this hits a bit too close to home.
"Oh wow he fought for three armies" - Swiss mercenaries: "Am I a joke to you?"
I woke up and looked at my phone. This was uploaded four minutes beforehand.
This is one of my favorite songs and the book on him is interesting
What's the book called?I only found out about this individual from the song!
@@paulinewhicker4221 it's the same book that Joakim holds up
Born a Soldier: The Times and Life of Larry A Thorne
@@TrollbaitMage yep, saw it just after I typed! I think my brain's been wrecked by lockdown!
I just bought three copies a week ago for me, my father, and my grandfather.
You mentioned the grave of the unknown soldier during the video. In Finland many (if not most) graveyards have a small monument for the unknown soldier. Also there are soldiers graves in most graveyards because the dead soldiers were sent to their hometowns for burial during Winter and Continual war.
Well, what a lovely clip. I'm thrilled for the next one!
Everyone is so caught up in reality TV and the BS of today.
I, on the other hand, am a simple man. I love metal. I'm a history buff and I love military stuff.
I would rather relax by listening to Sabaton and learning about the stories of their songs.
Thank you Sabaton History, and thank you Sabaton.
A great episode as always. A few comments from a Finnish history enthusiast:
Larry was not really a big talker or language learner so he barely spoke any German. He was already a second lieutenant when arriving to Waffen-SS training in German June 1941 with other Finnish Waffen-SS volunteers. Larry wasn't also a really big fan of preussian military discipline and keeping it by-the-book at the barracks grounds. Also he liked to drink.
All these things combined didn't make him an excellent officer/NCO candidate to the German officers who were assembling the 5th Waffen-SS "Viking Division" in 1941. So he was sent home in late summer of 1941 with just a handful of other Finnish men (most of the Finnish Waffen-SS volunteers fought in the Eastern front 1941-1943). How exactly he made that trip back to Finland - I'm not so sure.
The second and last point: The Winter War was in my opinion and by many others a big defensive victory. Finland remained it's independence and the Soviets did not interfere with Finnish politics (a big issue!). However, the Continuation War was different. I consider it a massive loss even though Finland kept it's independence. Why I consider it a loss? All the patriotic movements were forced to shut down immediately, the Finnish war heroes and great politicians who kept Finland independent (Mr. Ryti for example) were imprisoned. The communists were allowed to come from the underground to the daylight and to politics. The communists manned the important cultural posts, like the Finnish national broadcasting company. The Finnish communists had power, and the years 1944-1948 were really tricky. Many feared (SS-men for example) that they would be deported to Siberia. It was heavily rumoured that in March 1948 there would be a communist coup de tat in Finland by the communists, but luckily, the Finnish communists really sucked and it never happened. Stalin did knew about the arms caching case (veterans gearing up for a guerrilla war) and I believe he thought a Finnish coup de tat backed by the Soviets would be a really shitty situation for Stalin, and he had already enough problems in Germany with the ex-Allies.
This Finnish loss in the Continuation War is still visible today in various ways, please come visit Helsinki and I tell you more!
This ought to be good. Skype really isn't known for great quality but I want to hear more of his story. Thanks guys.
And with the Finnish army joining the Germans, that was clear. And given how things went between the Fins and the Soviets, I don't blame them for taking a side.
@gillecroisd 92 The Winter war was an excellent casus belli for the Finnish to start advancing to Karelia and other Finnish areas. Finland actually joined the Eastern front advance a few days later after 22nd June when the Soviets bombed cities in Finland. Then Finland declared war to Soviets. Actually Hermann Göring hinted in the early 1940s that "Finland would get all lost land areas back with an interest." when Finland was bargaining with Stalin to stop the Winter War. So the German High command knew that they would attack the Soviet Union later and they would need Finland to secure the northern flank. Politically, it would have been pretty hard for the neutral Finland to join Axis powers in 1941 to attack the Russians if the Winter War never happened. This is a pretty interesting question though!
After the Great War, around 1918-1920 there was a lot of skirmishes in the Karelian areas, which were considered Finnish areas with Karelian people living there. At this time Soviet union was in a big civil war, so there was maybe some thought of Finland acquiring the Karelian lands if the Russian Whites would end up victorious.
Sabaton history during the week and Great Saturdays at the weekend!
Lockdown may be stressful but at least I'm learning new things!
Great video as always gents, looking forward to part 3!
7 people misclicked thumbs up accidentally sadly for i cant believe anyone disliked this on purpose. Lauri Törni a hero to Scandinavia :). The last true viking and sisu jäger
Do think if Lauri Törni and Simo Hiaha ever met each other they would become good friends? I mean they both shared a deep hatred for the soviet invasion of Finland.
Going by the little I know I feel like Simo was quite a bit less passionate in his hate (I don't know that I've heard anything about him hating them, just that it he didn't feel anything when killing them) and he feels less like a soldier and more like a hunter if that makes any sense. What I've learnt about Lauri (again I know pretty much nothing) I'd say that he took it much more personally and to reuse the comparison, I think he was more warrior than soldier.
Again, I know very little about either.
Simo Häyhä wasn't as warlike. He considered the whole Winter War a series of hunting trips. He didn't love war like Lauri Törni did, Simo just liked shooting... a lot. There's quite a big difference there
We have a white rose bush in the back yard of the variety 'John F Kennedy' . It is a variety breed to be planted around JFK and RFKes graves at Arlington National Cemetery. Grew up near DC so I have been there many times. Always makes me cry.
Recently discovered these guys about a month ago and I’m ADDICTED to their music! Plus learning a thing or two along the way. Want to see them in September, hopefully they’re still coming to Missouri!
Visited Audie Murphy last December, amazing how his grave always has tributes on it. I myself placed a miniture American flag on his grave as a sign of respect
These episodes are one of the best in my opinion. Great job you guys👍🏻
Thank you! :)
Thank you! :)
Thank you for brightening up the dull days of quarantine. Love the episodes!
I think you made unbiased and accurate presentation. Thanks!
That is a great compliment for a historian. Thank you!
My grandfather is buried in Arlington Nation Cemetary. He fought in the Korean War, I wish I knew about him, so I could see his grave. Seeing Joakim there made my day, he'd had loved someone visiting the cemetary he rests in.
me an 22 years logistics and economics student
profesor hey now marx was right about a lot of things
me DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM
This really is one of my favourite songs, it is just so energetic!! But now a rant about history classes: First of all, I am good in it, I have 15 points an A plus! But, two weeks ago we discussed how the first world war started. Last week we discussed about the war itself, and Shell Shock. But, this week we are already talking about the Weimar Republic. I accept that the First World War is not the most important topic, but seriously? 90 minutes about the First World War? That is just not enough!! We didn‘t talk about: any troop movements, the German Navy, fighting in Russia, the trench system, technical inventions, Nothing! Not about Verun, Arras, The Somme, Ypern, Paschendale, NOTHING I am seriously angry because we didn‘t talk about what the war brought, not the starving in Germany, really just nothing! The War has so many different facets and we did discussed just a little little bit and that is really sad!
Our schools taught us lot more about first World War
Julius Hakala Be happy! It is so interesting. Btw. Where do you live? I‘m from Germany.
@@maxmustermann2060 Suomi perkele🇫🇮
Julius Hakala Ok!
@@maxmustermann2060 Damn. If you don't talk about wars in German history class, what do you talk about?
4:30
Lauri be like:
Remember me Assholes?
Really cool episode! cant wait for part 3
fun fact: one of the men who fought in detachment torni was future finnish president Mauno Koivisto.
Loving this series! 🤘
Stay healthy team! 🥰
Thank you! You too! :)
This is by far one of my favorite Sabaton songs. One thing I want to know however is what did Lauri do to receive an Iron Cross while with the SS
If I remember correctly it was for bravery during a rescue mission.
Nothing is ever black and white, it’s always so much more complex.
Good video
Notification squad reporting as ordered to SHOUT
LAURI THÖRNI'S NAME
Son of Finland and the Green Beret!
Rise, from beyond the Grave.
I'd like to see Ken Burns partner with Indy and Sabaton to make a docu-series about Lauri Törni. So far, the closest we've ever had to a movie about him was "The Green Berets" where John Wayne's character, COL Mike Kirby, was based on him.
I think that’s the greatest intro to a video ever
Mannerheim is a beast I need to buy his memoirs one day
I've heard that his museum tends to gloss over the Finnish Civil War a bit, try to find a book that mentions that as it was pretty important for his career if I don't misremember things.
@@RannonSi I once wrote a paper on Mannerheim in school and visited the site of his heritage foundation... and in their biography they literally skipped the civil war of 1918. It went something like "After the October revolution, Mannerheim returned to Finland in late 1917. IN 1919...." So yes, his idolizers do whitewash his image.
great episode, as allways. stay safe guys and keep it up.
Thank you! You as well!
-URSS (& millions mens strong Red Army) : *WE'RE TAKING YOUR CITY AND YOUR FAMILY HOUSE.*
-Lauri Törni (all alone) : I'll take it back, 'tiz just a matter of days. See ya. Cheers.
-Lauri Törni's mom : good son. Be quick, I forgot a chicken in the oven. The key is under the doormat as usual.
Im waiting for the moment "The Last Battle" will be covered
Derp! Fighting fire with fire works more quickly than with water. You use a bigger fire or explosion to exhaust all the oxygen around the burning area and the fire will instantly extinguish due to lack of oxygen. Fighting fire with fire is the best way to actually fight fire.
as an american, I'm honored to have such a hero resting among us.
I'm sure someone has already told you this, but Lauri has another tomb in Helsinki whit the date October 19, 1966
Army has a lot of MVP Audie Murphy, SGT York, Larry Thorne, Simo Hayha, Mad Jack Churchill, SGT Antolak, and Roy Benavidez
I still wait for the Hollywood-level movie of Lauri.
Oh please no. You could do much better with that homeless fellow under the bridge for 5$.
Hollywood is not worthy to make a movie of this great man
@@heneraldodzz4978 Of course not, but I think he just means in terms of production ability & general epicness. Which plenty other good folks are capable of ;)
As it happens there already is one which deals with it a bit (though only a bit of his US service). The Green Berets (1968) featuring John Wayne and the lot. It in turn is based on the novel The Green Berets (1965) by Robin Moore - where one of the characters, Captain Steve (Sven) Kornie who apparently is the basis for movie's Major Kirby (played by John Wayne), is actually based on Larry Thorne (Lauri Törni).
They wont because they wouldn't the hero of the story in an SS uniform
I always got confused because of the toomb of the unkown soldier sence always i hear "the unknown soldier" i think of the Väinö Linna book with the same name and the movie also
Well Väinö Linna didn't come up with the term Unknown soldier xD It is a thing around the world about some fallen soldiers.
Torni working with the SS to fight the Soviets can be summed up in one familiar quote. "The enemy of my enemy is my ally."
I’ve been to that graveyard a few years back... it’s got one hell of a presence... you walk through it and it fells like it’s pulling you a few feet’s into hell
going to Arlington really puts things into perspective. It really makes you think about the sacrifice that is made, and for instance, The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, it is always scary silent, i would say bone chilling. Even when my color guard group put a wreath in front it, it was bone chilling.
Every Memorial Day I go and pay respect to the veterans cemeteries around me
J A
It’s good to do
I know a lot of Latvian and Estonian soldiers fought with the Nazis because they felt they needed help against the Soviets, but felt they'd easily toss the Nazis out once they were free of the Soviets.
I'm sure many Finns felt the same way, and unfortunately the Estonians and Latvians suffered the Soviets for a very long time.
Finland acted in self-interest. You guys forget that the Soviets Concluded with Germany in the first place. The Soviets were not innocent bystanders.
After Lauri returned from Germany to Finland after WW2 Lauri was convicted of treason because he went to Germany while Finland was at war with Germany.
8:06 So glad that he didn't include the Poles.
What is funny is that during the Finns training under the SS, it was recorded in quite a few books that even though the SS tried to indoctrinate the Finns to their ideology, none cared. They were there to learn to be better soldiers/leaders. Törni especially.
In addition, it was noted that Finnish Jews fought alongside the Germans, in their various missions, with zero issues. Also, in a number of books, the Finnish Jews and Germans actually got along well.
And a huge chunk of the story is missing.
1) Törni went back to Germany, after Finland acquiesced to Russian terms, to continue to fight Russians. With a group of other Finns, he went back to Germany for more training in case Russia invaded Finland again. Getting stuck in Germany he continued to fight Russians via underground units.
2) After the fall of Germany, he did surrender to an Allied unit (British) with Russians on his tail. Story goes, by multiple accounts, that the Russians knew who he was and wanted him. After a standoff, with the British troops and Russian troops pulling their weapons on each other, needless to say, Törni was held in an British camp. And of course he escaped and made it back to Finland.
Is it weird that I think Tourni was a handsome, handsome man? XD
No, I don't think you're weird ;D
10/2020...coming up on anniversary of his death. True hero.
Lauri Törni is what happens when you mix Democracy, Discipline, and self-motivatation together
Famous democrats, nazi Germany.
nobody:
captions at 12:55: Oh here we are, Larry Alan Porn
:DD
2:39 short boi
A guy that hates communism but be a good person. However, I think the story of the Korean soldier of three armies (Yang Kyoungjong) is more interesting because he fought for three sides in the SAME war..... a unique case.
mikatu I think the biggest issue with Yangs story is it’s not entirely known if he exists, it can’t be 100% guaranteed
Depends on how you look at it. Törni always fought on the same ideological side of WW2 and followed it up later in Vietnam, he was a volunteer for each army, and he was if not necessarily promoted, then atleast kept his rank through them, and generally being a badass in all of it.
Yang was drafted, captured, drafted, captured, drafted and killed (or if the movie is accurate, traded identities ,but still died).
It's more of an impressive survival feat, rather than a show of badassery.
I know this just came out and I am looking forward to hearing about Lauri's service in the Green Berets, but I noticed there's no video about Uprising yet. I'd love to see a video covering the Warsaw Uprising and the Polish resistance. When is it coming out?
I thank you so very much for make part two happen 🤘🏻
Hello Ryan ✊🏻!!!
Liebe grüße Alex to you all 🤘🏻🍻😎please stay tuned😊
@Sabaton History Dankeschön für das ❤️👍🏻!!! Bitte macht euch keine Gedanken wegen den Albums ! It’s all good in these days 😊liebe grüße Alex 😘my only wish is that we all stay safe and healthy
lol it's Liberation Day here in Vietnam hope I don't get arrested watching this xd
Doesn't seem that liberated if you still can be arrested for watching a video. xD
No he was no racist, just hated communism - like we all should.
Holy crap the guy at 2:39 is short!
Larry got a memorial place in family grave in Malmi`s cemetery in Helsinki Finland, but his remains were buried with three south Vietnamese air force men. one reason for why Larry isn't in sacred ground in Finland is after the helicopter accident bodies were in such condition after decades on the ground they couldn't separate them. So they didn't want to bury a "wrong person" in cemetery in Malmi
I was listening to a podcast of a soldier who served 18 years in special operations but he said the hardest thing he did in the military was a two year billet at the tomb of the unknown soldier. The guy was in Delta Force for a time.....
Did he mention why? Is it because he had to think about the dead soldiers, see all the griefing families or because he got disillusioned about whether the people were worth dying for?
You send Lauri Törni to kill the Boogeyman
Indy: my friend Ryan is filming me, say hi Ryan.
Ryan: Hello
Me: You had one job!
German and US Army: from a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you hate the color red?
Lauri Torni: *how to count pass infinity*
German and US Army: alright, that's the only answer we need
Stalin was looking under his bed every night for this guy!!!!
Him and Simo Hayha XD
@@MadameChristie no, he was always looking behind him in the distance for Simo.
@@MadameChristie Your is the sniper sight!!!!
so i was looking through the videos of this channel and could not find a
video about the ghost division. i feel like i would love to see the
history about that phantom division ;P
Soon!
@@SabatonHistory Awesome looking forward to it love what you do keep it up and also Sabaton make learning great again ;P
holy crap, last year I had walked pass that and did not that that he was burried there
Hello, I am writing to you from Finland. Finland owes about 3,000 Estonian soldiers. They are called "sons of Finland", they came across the sea to help Finland in the winter war, and in the continuation war. Their story should be made into a song, Finland could thank Estonia, and the sons of Finland. The Soviets hunted them down when they returned home. They lived in our forests... some until Estonia was liberated. They had the motto "For the freedom of Finland and the honor of Estonia"
Indy gotta call you out...in the to hell and back video you said you have been to Arlington. This one you said you haven't. What one is correct?
Well, when I was a kid my family went to DC on vacation and we went on the whole grand tour, but thinking it through later after To Hell and Back it doesn't really count since I remember very little. Would be kind of disrespectful if I claimed it had any effect on me at all.
@@SabatonHistory very true. Thanks for the reply. Love the videos keep them coming
Soooooo a few things.
As far as I know and but the looks of that Arlington stone that's not actually a grave but a memorial, as he died in an helicopter crash on a highly confidential mission his remains were not recovered. Another option is they recovered some remains but couldn't really identify them so they have a collective grave,it's something you see in British cemeteries as well with RAF crews.
Also,I couldn't agree more with Joakim on the fact that you gotta show some respect. Military cemeteries are a great way to grab a hold of a wars cost. My experience is mainly with Commonwealth ones but as I am also a militaria collector is incredible seeing the unit insignia in most of the gravestones.
Can't wait for part three,silver wings upon his chest!!!!!
His remains were discovered in 1999 and brought back to USA. He was buried with full military honors in Arlington cemetery in 2003. So it is an actual grave not just a memorial.
@@ml2067 Thanks there!! Read a book not long ago but it was from 96 so that's that!!
Just from hearing things from this video I don't hold it against the Finnish for accepting aid from Germany cause sounds like it was just to kick the Soviet Union out of Finland not cause they agreed with Hitlers ideals
That is exactly how it was. It was the ONLY possible way to keep our independence.
Joakim looks like he's been hitting too many Czech beers
Love the WD40 in the background of Neidell
Indy looks good in any light