What are your thoughts on this point in history? Sound off in the comment section. If you would like to gain early access to our Sabaton History episodes and actively support this awesome project that we are so passionate about, you can do so by joining our Patreon community. There are some pretty cool perks when you become part of the Patreon family. Find out more and join here 👉 www.patreon.com/sabatonhistory
Why Dresden? Because Germans lived there. I had an uncle I never got to meet die in that war (yes, I'm an older guy), because of the Holocaust, because of the brutality of the Nazis, and because Hitler was elected by German citizens, I have no problem at all with these bombings.
Yeah, pretty much. Total war is indeed total. Although imo I think Harris's quote about reaping the whirlwind applied to Japan as well. It is indeed terrible, but the Axis leader's were the ones that dragged their nations into war, committed genocide, and then refused to surrender, willing to sacrifice the populace to avoid justice for a little while longer.
Not only because they so nonchalantly defended the use of a weapon they didn't really understand yet and dismissed the possible outcome for it's victims but also because they aknowledge that firebombs are in fact not exactly the most humane in the first place ...
First part: "In total war, there are no true 'good guys'. The best you can get is a light grey." Second part: "Hey Joakim, how massive do you think the Hulk's dong is?"
@@Meirstein Yes, from August to Marcus Aurelius there was 200 yere long peace cald pax romana, which is astonishing for the time to only have war with neighbors for that long on that massive area.
That interview section had some of the biggest whiplash I've ever experienced in Sabaton History. Going from a depressing topic like carpet bombing to Sun Tzu riding a flying carpet, the phone call skit with Indy, and the talk about the Incredible Hulk's package was certainly an experience. I think I was genuinely laughing at some points during the discussion, like when Pär (yes, with an 'ä') butted in.
Time for a *_Beasts of War_* album, guys! Hannibal's elephants The Great Emu War Sergeant Stubby (America's first and most highly decorated war dog) Cher Ami (the pigeon that saved the 77th in the Argonne) Wojtek etc.
I think there's a statue somewhere in the USA of a marine with four legs and a horse's head. He would take himself back to the supply train, where they'd load up ammunition and then he'd walk himself back to the front line. Sergeant Reckless.
Man, I fear the day the channel runs out of songs, tho there are still topics Sabaton could cover, Seven Years War, Napoleonic Era, Franco-Prussuan War, Sengoku Jidai, Roman Empire, 100 years war, man humanity has a long history...
Or american Revolution (but make sure the tea u droppin in water isn't shown to british people) or pearl harbor or Force Z (was it force Z I can't remember) or maybe the battle of jutland.
It's time for: "History of Sabaton." "History of Rockstad:Falun/Sabaton open air." Special: "History of Indy and Spartacus." And as a curveball: "History of Sabatons hometown Falun."
SUN TZU ON A FLYING CARPET IS THE BEST THING I'VE SEEN ALL YEAR! I choked on my tongue I laughed so hard. And then the mixups with the Dutch language followed by the corrections, despite the subject being incredibly horrifying (I never knew the US firebombed Tokyo, we never learned that in school, I only ever learned we bombed HIroshima and Nagasaki), I laughed so much during this episode. Thank you guys so much for adding levity to the video despite the serious nature of the song. It always makes me smile, even if I'm havin a tough time right now cause I've had 5 finals this month with my 5th and final one tomorrow. I'll keep soldiering on, but these videos are always a bright spot in my week.
I left the room for 45 seconds and the subject went from an album's play to inviting the Hulk to have relations in the kitchen. Still more historical than The History Channel.
You could do an episode about Shadows. It could cover the writing of and\or the cultural impact of Lord of the Rings. It could also be a Bio Special of sorts for Tolkien.
Yeah that would be awesome, and Indy could mention Tolkien's impact on rock and metal as any rock or metal band worth their salt has a song about LOTR. Or In Amon Amarth's (who Sabaton covered Twilight of the Thunder God from) case named their band after Tolkien's works.
One of my more favorite songs from The Art of War album, not just for its adrenalin pumping music, but also the dreadful and terrifying lyrics. Seriously if you guys ever performed this song live again, you better have sirens going off when the lyrics "the sirens scream out loud" come up. That would just send chills down my spine. Also, did anyone else expect this song to be about Napalm bombing runs during Vietnam? At least at first glance?
@@gendumthegreat805 Yeah but there are true stories in that regard someway, including a japanese soldier lost in the jungle who thought WWII wasn't over until the late 50's
@@Unknown_Genius true, but the issue isn't people being terrified, its the use of terrorism as a tactic, or more accurately hypocritically labeling something terrorism when the enemy does it, but then turning around and justifying the same act or worse as "strategic" when you do it. The Brits blasted the hell out of the Nazis for bombing civilians, calling absolutely evil...but then suddenly it was morally okay to not just bomb civilians, but to deliberately bomb them in such a way as to maximize the loss of human life? Even in war there must be standards and morals. If it was acceptable for the allies to firebomb civilians, then Hitler did nothing wrong when he did the same. And if Hitler was evil for bombing civilians...then the allies too committed great and terrible evil.
That would be interesting in more ways than one. Tolkien (may he rest in Piece) could be incredibly vague; the history of the Nazgul is one such instance. What we know for certain: they were once Men who were given Nine of the Rings of Power, three were Numenorian lords, one was an Easterling, four others are unknown, and their leader was once the Witch King of Angmar, and is the greatest of the Nazgul. The Nazgul were Sauron's chief minions, and were essentially unkillable so long as Sauron was around. They were sent from Mordor to hunt Frodo and the Ring; later on, the Witch King of Angmar led Sauron's forces at the Siege of Minas Tirith and the Battle of the Pellenor Fields, where a prophecy regarding said King came into effect: he technically was not killed by a man, anyway you look at it. When the One Ring was destroyed, so were the Nazgul. That is what we know for certain. It would be cool to watch a video about possible theories though.
Now this was dark. Indy gave me the chills summing up "An atom bomb might have actually been more humane." But anyhow, what I'm mostly thinking about right now, is Neuken in de Keuken.
I came to that same conclusion diving deeper in the wars. This was a war completely driven by hatred by all involved. All the combative countries have deliberately targeted civilians, the only limitations being the capabilities of the war machines themselves. What is the difference between 1000 bombers dropping 100,000 lbs vs one bomber with one bomb, the destruction levels being the same. To me that is probably the scariest thing about nuclear weapons: It was just a cheaper way to do what they were already doing.
I where on the Sabaton cruise that year when you played 7734.. The thing is, I was so extremely surprised that you played it, (because it's one of my top three favorite Sabaton songs) that it took me half way trough the song to enjoy it to the max.
This just means they needed to release another album, maybe even make it a double album. In this case, we all win, more awesome Sabaton songs and more episodes of Sabaton history.
I love this band and this channel. I'm super late to the party, and I already miss this channel and band. I would love to see more content as I just love the personalities of the band member and Indie giving us the best story telling of the historical events. A group of people I would totally just jive with.
I’m from the Netherlands and I just watched this episode. It was really fun hearing you guys mention a tour you did in the Netherlands and trying to speak Dutch! I will see you for the first time in March next year! I’m VERY excited!
@@Kyle-gw6qp Refugees from Silesia maybe? Do you have any idea about what you are commenting? The Hague Convention was already valid at that time. You are really not the brightest candle on the pie.
One of my favourite Sabaton song! Good history behind the song, and Indy Neidell it’s an awesome storyteller!!! I like him very much! Great job to Indy and Sabaton history channel!!!
Would be a cool one for 7734, reading through youtube comments on the song theres a ton of different peoples interpretations of the song and it would be interesting to see some of those and yours explored as a song that could pottentially have a few different meanings/fit with them.
Fire arrows weren't a thing used to light the enemy on fire. They blow out when the arrow is loosened due to the speed. Even if they hadn't blown out, it would be hard for the arrows to light anything on fire. There were specially designed fire arrows that didn't blow out, but they were most likely used for signalling.
They covered Amon Amarth's 'Twilight of the Thunder God' as a bonus track on one of their albums. Would love to see it here - an episode on Norse history and folklore - the battle of Ragnarok!!
One of my favorite songs from Sabaton! For some reason I associated it with the Vietnam war idk why I even would say i know "a lot" about the bombing of german citys in ww2 and associate the german word "Feuersturm" with the bombing of Dresten towards the end of the war ,anyway great song and greetings from Germany
SWEDISH PAGANS!!!!! Also, I'm really glad that both Sabaton History and Sabaton itself are willing to cover topics that could be deeply controversial, like these bondings. I have a general familiarity with World War II, but had not really been aware of the Allied fire bombings and carpet bombings, and definitely had not been aware of the level of brutality that was involved, to say nothing of the level of cold calculation. While it can be a deeply uncomfortable topic to listen to, I do appreciate the willingness to tackle it head-on and to not sugarcoat what the Allies did in pursuit of winning the war. It really helps drive home the point that in war, to quote the best villain I've ever read, "There is only one sin - defeat. There is only one grace - victory. Everything else is meaningless." (Amadeus Black, "A Practical Guide to Evil")
@Parthenax nobody gives a shit about allied war crimes because the allies won. That's it. Nothing else. The same would be true for the axis if they had won. When it comes right down to it, the only crime in war is to lose because the victors get to choose the narrative.
Please keep on coming with the history episodes! Maybe go into further detail of existing songs which you already covered? Looking forward to sabaton history each week!!
BROEK UIT OP JE HOOFD! Finally seeing the Dutch Sabaton tradition mentioned. I was at the Amsterdam Great War show and was introduced to it. Great to see and hopefully the guys tackle dutch history soon!
Talking about Bomber Harris there always reminds me of a line from his American counterpart in the Pacific Theater, Curtis LeMay who organized similar incendiary attacks against Japanese residential districts and civilian targets that were well beyond declared sacrosanct by international treaties like hospitals and emergency services. If I remember it came about after the war, 1950 or so. And he said something to the effect of: "If we hadn't won the war me and my ilk would have been tried as the greatest war criminals in history."
You can tell its from one of the old albums by the almost complete lack of any rhyming in the lyrics. Again, I'm glad they've improved so much since then.
After the episode about SWEDISH PAGANS! I'll totally be down for having an episode on 7734. I love both versions and I can listen to the guys just talking about it regardless if there's no history bit.
I live near Hamburg and just last week an unexploded WW2 bomb was disarmed in my town. Today they announced another one was found, so that‘s going to be taken care of some time in the next weeks. Fitting for that Video to come out today
Yeah but it's a cover, and not related to any peculiar historical fact. Just about vietnam war and PTSD, which is a very broad topic that should be covered.
I love how they go from talking about thousands dying in a firestorm and the question of whether it was ethical or not to talking about whether or not the Hulk has a massive Schlong or not within minutes
I am not tough enough for this episode,because so many of my relatives died in the firestorm,still see it as a criminal act against civilians who had nothing to do with the war at all
Aw I really love Metalizer, it has a different feel to it than the history albums which I love too. My favorite Metalizer songs are Endless nights and Dream Destroyer
Regarding the question implied by the title, I would argue that terror bombing is, in fact, a strategy, and that firebombing tactics used in Hamburg and Tokyo were both. Terror bombing is an inhumane strategy, and it is now a war crime to do so as of the Protocol 1 amendment to the Geneva Conventions in 1977, as it involves deliberate targeting of civilians. It's also debatable if it's a particularly effective strategy - it was used in WWII by both German and British air forces, and while bombings of places like Warsaw were effective for the Germans, the Blitz seems to have largely just steeled Britain's collective stiff upper lip rather than breaking them. The British also had relatively little success with their efforts on a morale front. One could argue that Britain's resolve would have been broken had the Luftwaffe been able to effect their campaign of terror bombing more effectively, and that Britain's only failed due to the fact that people feared the Nazi Party more than they did the bombs, but one could also take the simpler opinion that it did not work. The only instance that I can think of where one can unequivocally state that terror bombing worked as a strategy was the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - both cities were picked because they had been left relatively intact by bombing campaigns to date, enabling effective assessment of the bombs' destructive potential from the air, but this also implies they were not major strategic targets as such a strategic target would have been targeted in bombing raids being planned by Air Force generals when they were not yet privy to what the Manhattan Project was about to give them. But even here, one could argue it was less the impact of terror bombing in the traditional sense so much as the Japanese realizing that a bomb that destroys most of a city in a single blow, that can be delivered to the next city every few days is not a fight you can win - that their surrender was less one of terror than one of pragmatism finally winning out over their honour codes. Or it could be that the Japanese were already considering the Potsdam ultimatum and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were one hell of a good argument in favour of accepting its demand for unconditional surrender. (The Potsdam ultimatum was a message sent from the allies to Japan, demanding unconditional surrender and threatening "prompt and utter destruction" otherwise. They did translate it into Japanese before sending it, which...may or may not have been a good thing - that one's hard to figure. However, since it was a public demand, the Japanese press knew about that, and one of them asked the Japanese PM about it, to which he responded with a phrase that includes " _Mokusatsu_ ". In English, this has a variety of meanings depending on context. The dictionary definition is "take no notice of, treat (anything) with silent contempt, ignore [by keeping silence], remain in a wise and masterly inactivity," but in press conversations, and in the phrase used, the total meaning is the equivalent of saying "no comment" in English. Which doesn't mean "I'm deliberately ignoring it," so much as "I don't want to tell you (the press) anything." Which is perfectly reasonable: any inkling of the idea of surrendering is something you want to make sure is announced properly, not blurted out in response to a question at a press conference. Thing is, the Americans got ahold of it, translated it using the dictionary definition of _Mokusatsu_ and read it as a middle finger raised in their direction. Of course, everyone who knows the truth of what the Japanese government was doing with the Potsdam ultimatum during those days before the bomb fell is dead, and they took that secret to their graves. We have no way of knowing how Japan would have responded. We know that they had no chance from a strategic perspective even without the atomic bomb - in addition to American efforts that had been relentlessly advancing despite Japan's vigorous opposition that had proceeded almost non-stop since the Battle of Midway, Soviet forces were being redeployed from Europe for developing Soviet invasion plans...but WWII's European theatre shows that having no strategic path to victory is by no means a predictor that a country will surrender.)
The atomic bombs were not the main reason Japan surrendered. The main reason they surrendered is cause the Russians were going to invade. They knew that if Russia invaded and conquered the continent they would have killed the emperor and turned Japan Communist. That was utterly unacceptable to Japans government and since the allies were offering to allow the emperor to stay in place if they surrendered, it was the better option for them by far.
Arthur Harris had the same realization a lot of commanders that saw combat in their youth came to: The longer you try to prolong the conflict in hopes of reducing casualties, the more blood is spilled.
I remember the moment i heard the intro of hellriders in that show in the netherlands. was absolutely awesome. unfortunately i was the only in my group to recognize it. Broek uit, op je hoofd!
After today's episode I'm certain Joakim is a true nerd at heart (fantasy is common theme to metal for him to use and no women to his mind, but history). I salute him.
![Swedish Pagans - Vikings & The Russ - Sabaton History 099 [Official]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0upV50JSK04/mqdefault.jpg)
![Swedish Pagans – Vikings & The Russ – Sabaton History 099 [Official]](/img/tr.png)
![The March to War - The Great War Begins - Sabaton History 097 [Official]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_nEv9h8GjJM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Nuclear Attack - Atomic Bombings - Sabaton History 074 [Official]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/02kGGRvF8uU/mqdefault.jpg)
What are your thoughts on this point in history? Sound off in the comment section.
If you would like to gain early access to our Sabaton History episodes and actively support this awesome project that we are so passionate about, you can do so by joining our Patreon community. There are some pretty cool perks when you become part of the Patreon family.
Find out more and join here 👉 www.patreon.com/sabatonhistory
Why Dresden? Because Germans lived there. I had an uncle I never got to meet die in that war (yes, I'm an older guy), because of the Holocaust, because of the brutality of the Nazis, and because Hitler was elected by German citizens, I have no problem at all with these bombings.
"The atom bomb, so the argument went, might actually be more humane."
That sent chills down my spine...
Yeah.... Jeez....
Same
Yeah, pretty much. Total war is indeed total. Although imo I think Harris's quote about reaping the whirlwind applied to Japan as well. It is indeed terrible, but the Axis leader's were the ones that dragged their nations into war, committed genocide, and then refused to surrender, willing to sacrifice the populace to avoid justice for a little while longer.
Not only because they so nonchalantly defended the use of a weapon they didn't really understand yet and dismissed the possible outcome for it's victims but also because they aknowledge that firebombs are in fact not exactly the most humane in the first place ...
Except, it's not the case.
The aftermath of the firebombing, while horrendous, was still lesser than the atom bomb's.
I absolutely love that Joakim is wearing a Monty Python shirt. And it's honestly one of my favorite skits of all time.
*Sad Spanish Inquisition noises*
Mayby a song about ancient Rome is finally coming?
Joakim, if You're reading it - write that down, write that down! :D
Right? I want that shirt so bad.
Why is this written 1 day a ago?
This video was uploaded one hour a ago
First part: "In total war, there are no true 'good guys'. The best you can get is a light grey."
Second part: "Hey Joakim, how massive do you think the Hulk's dong is?"
LOL
>be me
>have a ton of homework with deadline ruthlessly approaching
>sabaton history releases a video
>homework can wait
Same bro
Who knows, maybe something SH says in this video can apply to your homework. If not, oh well.
Atleast Sabaton History is educational so it's acceptable.
Что мы говорим домашней работе? Тоже что богу смерти, не сегодня.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?" "Toilets"
But the Japanese took the idea and ran with it
@@slacksviii9824 Behold. The watered shitter that moistens thy butt!
Brought Peace?
@@ChIpMuNkDeLtA Peace? Shut up!
@@Meirstein Yes, from August to Marcus Aurelius there was 200 yere long peace cald pax romana, which is astonishing for the time to only have war with neighbors for that long on that massive area.
In 1946, American analysts reviewed the destruction from the atomic bomb in Nagasaki, and concluded "the damage was not nearly as bad as in Hamburg".
The "atomic bomb" was just a firestorm from regular bombing.
That interview section had some of the biggest whiplash I've ever experienced in Sabaton History. Going from a depressing topic like carpet bombing to Sun Tzu riding a flying carpet, the phone call skit with Indy, and the talk about the Incredible Hulk's package was certainly an experience. I think I was genuinely laughing at some points during the discussion, like when Pär (yes, with an 'ä') butted in.
#JoakimKilledPär
I too have this great power : ä ë ï ö ü ÿ, I have them all !!!
This is "almost every single song"
The last one - SWEDISH PAGANS
If we are lucky, they will save that song for the 100th episode, which is just in 2 weeks.
@@JojokimVT and the last one of 2020
WooOO'oh, wooOOoo'oh...
Quoth Tommy and Thobbe: "I wanna play Swedish Pagans"
and it's nearly 100 of them jeez.
14:10 "Death from above" -Sun Tzu, Art of War
Joakim seems to learn only really essential and useful sentences of other languages :D
Noch ein Bier
@@mats7492 Arguably the ONLY sentence anyone needs to know.
Time for a *_Beasts of War_* album, guys!
Hannibal's elephants
The Great Emu War
Sergeant Stubby (America's first and most highly decorated war dog)
Cher Ami (the pigeon that saved the 77th in the Argonne)
Wojtek
etc.
Don't forget unsinkable sam
And for B sides, songs about Nils Olav (a penguin) and William Windsor (a goat)
Definitely would love to hear something for Stubby and Wojtek! :D
Saturn the gator
I think there's a statue somewhere in the USA of a marine with four legs and a horse's head. He would take himself back to the supply train, where they'd load up ammunition and then he'd walk himself back to the front line. Sergeant Reckless.
Last one to wait: SWEDISH PAGANS!!!
(This is how to trigger Joakim off)
Another way to trigger Joakim is to include Tommy in that episode
@@JojokimVT And as a special guest, Thobbe too!
Having Tommy in a sabaton history episode would be interesting.
wooooh-woooooooooh-woooooooh
@@Thomas.Wright Ah, I see you are a fellow person of culture as well, comrade.
I didn't even realize the regular songs were through already
This is gonna be an Arthur “ fire up the lancers” Harris video isn’t it?
Good ole bomber Harris
DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS
Arthur "You want total war? I will make your sore" Harris
Arthur "send the hun to the sun" Harris
Arthur “doing his round with a 1,000 pound” Harris
Man, I fear the day the channel runs out of songs, tho there are still topics Sabaton could cover, Seven Years War, Napoleonic Era, Franco-Prussuan War, Sengoku Jidai, Roman Empire, 100 years war, man humanity has a long history...
Or american Revolution (but make sure the tea u droppin in water isn't shown to british people) or pearl harbor or Force Z (was it force Z I can't remember) or maybe the battle of jutland.
What can we say? Humanity. We do's what we likes and we likes what we do.
If you are finished with all regular songs of the albums, that can mean one thing: Time for a new album :)
They missed a couple though-"Swedish Pagans," but also "Glorious Land." I'm interested in the stories behind those songs.
It's time for:
"History of Sabaton."
"History of Rockstad:Falun/Sabaton open air."
Special: "History of Indy and Spartacus."
And as a curveball: "History of Sabatons hometown Falun."
Nearly done. Always wondered why this track wasn't covered in lineups. Now, I know.
SUN TZU ON A FLYING CARPET IS THE BEST THING I'VE SEEN ALL YEAR! I choked on my tongue I laughed so hard. And then the mixups with the Dutch language followed by the corrections, despite the subject being incredibly horrifying (I never knew the US firebombed Tokyo, we never learned that in school, I only ever learned we bombed HIroshima and Nagasaki), I laughed so much during this episode.
Thank you guys so much for adding levity to the video despite the serious nature of the song. It always makes me smile, even if I'm havin a tough time right now cause I've had 5 finals this month with my 5th and final one tomorrow. I'll keep soldiering on, but these videos are always a bright spot in my week.
XD
I left the room for 45 seconds and the subject went from an album's play to inviting the Hulk to have relations in the kitchen.
Still more historical than The History Channel.
I always thought this was about the us firebombing Japan, damn
Jfc me too...
it could apply to both cases
I thought it was about both
The blitz for me
I confused this song with Nuclear Attack.
"Messups in the high command", understatement of the century, the army and navy where pretty much literally at each others throats
You could do an episode about Shadows. It could cover the writing of and\or the cultural impact of Lord of the Rings. It could also be a Bio Special of sorts for Tolkien.
Yeah that would be awesome, and Indy could mention Tolkien's impact on rock and metal as any rock or metal band worth their salt has a song about LOTR. Or In Amon Amarth's (who Sabaton covered Twilight of the Thunder God from) case named their band after Tolkien's works.
Yes! That would be amazing!
One of my more favorite songs from The Art of War album, not just for its adrenalin pumping music, but also the dreadful and terrifying lyrics. Seriously if you guys ever performed this song live again, you better have sirens going off when the lyrics "the sirens scream out loud" come up. That would just send chills down my spine.
Also, did anyone else expect this song to be about Napalm bombing runs during Vietnam? At least at first glance?
>did anyone else expect this song to be about Napalm bombing runs
that's just natural. anglo crimes against humanity have no end.
I think the effect would be better if the sirens went off before the start of the song imo.
A normal conversation: *exists*
Indy: but what is the Hulk packing tho? 🤔
Can we get a history of ‘Camouflage?’ Telling the stories of literal ghosts in warfare
That’s a cover of really old song
@@gendumthegreat805 Yeah but there are true stories in that regard someway, including a japanese soldier lost in the jungle who thought WWII wasn't over until the late 50's
@@Damien.D even one who fought until the 70s
I think operation wandering soul and psychological warfare would be a match for the song camouflage
Stan Ridgeway rules
I own a bass and an ä-key so I guess I am qualified and will be expecting a call. #JoakimKilledPär
#joakimKilledPär
Copy and paste but I only got a trumpet
I can play a piano if you guys need one #Sabaton #JoakimKilledPär.
I have pads if you need some pads. Or a tuba
I tune my bass in ä-key.
I can play the drums if that helps
Even as a german I never heard about this. Thank you for covering this
Edit: especially the Hamburg part. Dresden I knew
I think you missed The Hammer Has Fallen
Please cover that too I love the song
Did you ever do an Episode about the song Camouflage? Or is it not invluded because it's a bonus track?
No, because camouflage is a cover of a Stan Ridgeway song from back in the 80s
It is a cover. But it's a great song. They should do it
@Kiryan cover with a wrong lyric mind you
@@camilogonzalez5576 not only that, it’s a cover for a song with a fictional premise
@@micahdadbeh5955 sure, but it would be a chance to talk about Vietnam, PTSD, drugs and the American soldiers, mythology of the war...
16:30 poor Pär...
"If it is strategic when you do it to your enemy, but terrorism when your enemy does it to you, that is all the answer you need to your question."
Whose quote is that
@@stastu6484 mine, though i'm sure someone smarter than me has said something like it before.
@@Unknown_Genius true, but the issue isn't people being terrified, its the use of terrorism as a tactic, or more accurately hypocritically labeling something terrorism when the enemy does it, but then turning around and justifying the same act or worse as "strategic" when you do it.
The Brits blasted the hell out of the Nazis for bombing civilians, calling absolutely evil...but then suddenly it was morally okay to not just bomb civilians, but to deliberately bomb them in such a way as to maximize the loss of human life? Even in war there must be standards and morals. If it was acceptable for the allies to firebomb civilians, then Hitler did nothing wrong when he did the same. And if Hitler was evil for bombing civilians...then the allies too committed great and terrible evil.
@@Unknown_Genius true. not that that stops anyone from insisting they're the good guys when they're just as horrible as the "bad guys."
I believe the difference is "if you do it during the war is strategic, if you do it in times of peace it is terrorism"
I adore this song, always makes me put my foot down just a little bit while driving.
Officer you don't understand Sabaton was on.
You should do Shadows and make the history part about the history of the Nazgul
That would be interesting in more ways than one. Tolkien (may he rest in Piece) could be incredibly vague; the history of the Nazgul is one such instance. What we know for certain: they were once Men who were given Nine of the Rings of Power, three were Numenorian lords, one was an Easterling, four others are unknown, and their leader was once the Witch King of Angmar, and is the greatest of the Nazgul. The Nazgul were Sauron's chief minions, and were essentially unkillable so long as Sauron was around. They were sent from Mordor to hunt Frodo and the Ring; later on, the Witch King of Angmar led Sauron's forces at the Siege of Minas Tirith and the Battle of the Pellenor Fields, where a prophecy regarding said King came into effect: he technically was not killed by a man, anyway you look at it. When the One Ring was destroyed, so were the Nazgul. That is what we know for certain. It would be cool to watch a video about possible theories though.
Intoo the middle earth... The Mordor Army marched!!
Now this was dark. Indy gave me the chills summing up "An atom bomb might have actually been more humane."
But anyhow, what I'm mostly thinking about right now, is Neuken in de Keuken.
I came to that same conclusion diving deeper in the wars.
This was a war completely driven by hatred by all involved.
All the combative countries have deliberately targeted civilians, the only limitations being the capabilities of the war machines themselves.
What is the difference between 1000 bombers dropping 100,000 lbs vs one bomber with one bomb, the destruction levels being the same.
To me that is probably the scariest thing about nuclear weapons: It was just a cheaper way to do what they were already doing.
As Sweden Neuken in de Keuken this sound so funny lol
I where on the Sabaton cruise that year when you played 7734.. The thing is, I was so extremely surprised that you played it, (because it's one of my top three favorite Sabaton songs) that it took me half way trough the song to enjoy it to the max.
You know what this means right, Sabaton needs to do another album to keep Indy busy.
Sabatons show of Heroes on tour at Amsterdam, was by far the most amazing show I have ever seen! BROEK UIT, OP JE HOOFD! \m/.
I hate to say it, but I'm learning more history from a heavy metal band than some guy standing in a classroom with 20-30 kids
Hate to say it? Dont you mean you *love* to say it?
@@claytonplays8722 yes
That is because the american school system is horrible. I am obviously assuming your an american so if I am wrong just ignore this comment.
@@beng6480 I am, and I agree
I can binge watch and listen your history vids indefinitely! SUBSCRIBED.
This just means they needed to release another album, maybe even make it a double album. In this case, we all win, more awesome Sabaton songs and more episodes of Sabaton history.
The warning at the beginning of this video was so you don't get hit with a ban hammer from evil RUclips?🤔😥
Probably
No , just because prevent kid to watch
And youtube only punish axis crimes, ally crimes doesn't even care.
Don't need a bunch of Karens mass reporting videos.
I think the pictures of kids and adults burned to a crisp might have something to do with it. It’s not something everyone can handle seeing.
Started dark ended light. Every Sabaton history episode
Such a dark chapter in history and yet I can't stop giggling at that quote on Joakim's t-shirt! I love that scene and that movie xP
"We can't get an illustration of flying carpets dropping bombs."
You underestimate the power of the Internet, Indy.
16:50 Looks at bass: *My time has come!*
You mean :
my time has come
@@rodiguezelio2707 Good Idea!
I love this band and this channel. I'm super late to the party, and I already miss this channel and band. I would love to see more content as I just love the personalities of the band member and Indie giving us the best story telling of the historical events. A group of people I would totally just jive with.
I’m from the Netherlands and I just watched this episode. It was really fun hearing you guys mention a tour you did in the Netherlands and trying to speak Dutch! I will see you for the first time in March next year! I’m VERY excited!
Could you guys do the Sabaton song Shadows and just talk about Lord of The Rings history
I know it is sort of a cover, but by when could we expect the video for "Långa bollar på Bengt"?
Thank you for doing one of my favorite songs from Sabaton
5:35
I live in Cologne. Shocking that it was a war zone 80 years ago
Right? I spent a summer in Koeln and its amazing how it looks now compared to 1945.
@@alexamerling79 Yup
And there was that one tank duel that is decently well covered in that city as well.
for a pretty much tiny event its one of the most well known ones.
@@davidty2006 I remember reading about that.
I love this editor so much!
I'm glad that none of this is being forgotten.
These crimes against civilians like in Dresden will never be forgotten!
@@swampy81 not crimes. These people needed to be bombed.
@@Kyle-gw6qp A city full of refugees...don't talk nonsense
@@swampy81 refugees of which country? Civilians of which country? The war had to be won. The end definitely justifies the means.
@@Kyle-gw6qp Refugees from Silesia maybe? Do you have any idea about what you are commenting? The Hague Convention was already valid at that time. You are really not the brightest candle on the pie.
One of my favourite Sabaton song! Good history behind the song, and Indy Neidell it’s an awesome storyteller!!! I like him very much! Great job to Indy and Sabaton history channel!!!
I actually like ''collecting'' songs I heard live and i always love when they play something unexpected :)
Can you make episodes about the bonus like Glorious Land and Camouflage ?!
Glorious Land was a bonus? Sounded like part of the actual album, fit well with the theme
Glorious land wasn't a bonus afaik, it just didn't cover any historical topic but rather a concept
Camouflage is a cover done by sabaton
Birds of war!
Finally tell us if it really is about Chaos Raptors from Warhammer 40k.
There is the song The Hammer has Fallen maybe that could be a song you take a look in
The answer? Yes. Its both. There cannot be one without the other.
Would be a cool one for 7734, reading through youtube comments on the song theres a ton of different peoples interpretations of the song and it would be interesting to see some of those and yours explored as a song that could pottentially have a few different meanings/fit with them.
Fire arrows weren't a thing used to light the enemy on fire. They blow out when the arrow is loosened due to the speed. Even if they hadn't blown out, it would be hard for the arrows to light anything on fire. There were specially designed fire arrows that didn't blow out, but they were most likely used for signalling.
You know you’ve got an obsession when you at least recognize all the Metallizer songs when they mention them.
Great history lesson!
Seriously, I would not care what songs you guys would sing!
I love them all! Even Metalizer!
They covered Amon Amarth's 'Twilight of the Thunder God' as a bonus track on one of their albums. Would love to see it here - an episode on Norse history and folklore - the battle of Ragnarok!!
Could be a double episode with Swedish Pagans being told about as well.
One of my favorite songs from Sabaton! For some reason I associated it with the Vietnam war idk why I even would say i know "a lot" about the bombing of german citys in ww2 and associate the german word "Feuersturm" with the bombing of Dresten towards the end of the war ,anyway great song and greetings from Germany
SWEDISH PAGANS!!!!!
Also, I'm really glad that both Sabaton History and Sabaton itself are willing to cover topics that could be deeply controversial, like these bondings. I have a general familiarity with World War II, but had not really been aware of the Allied fire bombings and carpet bombings, and definitely had not been aware of the level of brutality that was involved, to say nothing of the level of cold calculation. While it can be a deeply uncomfortable topic to listen to, I do appreciate the willingness to tackle it head-on and to not sugarcoat what the Allies did in pursuit of winning the war. It really helps drive home the point that in war, to quote the best villain I've ever read, "There is only one sin - defeat. There is only one grace - victory. Everything else is meaningless." (Amadeus Black, "A Practical Guide to Evil")
A great song from my favourite sabaton album.
- "How many war crimes do you wish to commit?"
- "Yes!"
Welcome to the Allies, you can commit warcrimes and get away with it
@@Drache191200 that's why I love the allies hahahahahaha
@Sacred Squadron SAS The allies did much worse things? Yes, I totally agree
@Parthenax nobody gives a shit about allied war crimes because the allies won. That's it. Nothing else. The same would be true for the axis if they had won. When it comes right down to it, the only crime in war is to lose because the victors get to choose the narrative.
This song is just underrated
Please keep on coming with the history episodes! Maybe go into further detail of existing songs which you already covered? Looking forward to sabaton history each week!!
BROEK UIT OP JE HOOFD! Finally seeing the Dutch Sabaton tradition mentioned. I was at the Amsterdam Great War show and was introduced to it. Great to see and hopefully the guys tackle dutch history soon!
Talking about Bomber Harris there always reminds me of a line from his American counterpart in the Pacific Theater, Curtis LeMay who organized similar incendiary attacks against Japanese residential districts and civilian targets that were well beyond declared sacrosanct by international treaties like hospitals and emergency services. If I remember it came about after the war, 1950 or so. And he said something to the effect of: "If we hadn't won the war me and my ilk would have been tried as the greatest war criminals in history."
He's not wrong. When it comes down to it, the only crime in war is to lose.
You can tell its from one of the old albums by the almost complete lack of any rhyming in the lyrics. Again, I'm glad they've improved so much since then.
I demand "shadows" next 😂
Yes.
Ash nazg durbatulûk
Ash nazg gimbatul
Ash nazg thrakatulûk
Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
As a Tolkien nerd, I agree 100%
After the episode about SWEDISH PAGANS! I'll totally be down for having an episode on 7734. I love both versions and I can listen to the guys just talking about it regardless if there's no history bit.
This is the first time they gave a warning that is how good this song is
No. They have given a warning before
No. They have given a warning before
We need a video on "Shadows", that could easily be made into a history video telling us the background of the dark riders.
I live near Hamburg and just last week an unexploded WW2 bomb was disarmed in my town. Today they announced another one was found, so that‘s going to be taken care of some time in the next weeks. Fitting for that Video to come out today
I’m still waiting for the camouflage episode. It’s a bonus song but it’s great.
Yeah but it's a cover, and not related to any peculiar historical fact. Just about vietnam war and PTSD, which is a very broad topic that should be covered.
I have been waiting for this for so longggggg
Sabaton History-Shadows!
And What par said speeder
PLAY FIRESTORM LIVE PLEASE! It's been my favorite song since I started listening to Sabaton in 2012
It's time for Sabaton History to connect what individual events (in history) has done to make modern day times normal.
I love how they go from talking about thousands dying in a firestorm and the question of whether it was ethical or not to talking about whether or not the Hulk has a massive Schlong or not within minutes
I am not tough enough for this episode,because so many of my relatives died in the firestorm,still see it as a criminal act against civilians who had nothing to do with the war at all
Sabaton, could you please release a new album. I want more history episodes.
is there any pattern between releases?
Aw I really love Metalizer, it has a different feel to it than the history albums which I love too. My favorite Metalizer songs are Endless nights and Dream Destroyer
Indy: We've done e'm all!
Meanwhile Glorious Land crying in a corner
maybe its part of the current batch?
Never expect going from carpet bombings to the Hulk's junk
Regarding the question implied by the title, I would argue that terror bombing is, in fact, a strategy, and that firebombing tactics used in Hamburg and Tokyo were both. Terror bombing is an inhumane strategy, and it is now a war crime to do so as of the Protocol 1 amendment to the Geneva Conventions in 1977, as it involves deliberate targeting of civilians. It's also debatable if it's a particularly effective strategy - it was used in WWII by both German and British air forces, and while bombings of places like Warsaw were effective for the Germans, the Blitz seems to have largely just steeled Britain's collective stiff upper lip rather than breaking them. The British also had relatively little success with their efforts on a morale front.
One could argue that Britain's resolve would have been broken had the Luftwaffe been able to effect their campaign of terror bombing more effectively, and that Britain's only failed due to the fact that people feared the Nazi Party more than they did the bombs, but one could also take the simpler opinion that it did not work. The only instance that I can think of where one can unequivocally state that terror bombing worked as a strategy was the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - both cities were picked because they had been left relatively intact by bombing campaigns to date, enabling effective assessment of the bombs' destructive potential from the air, but this also implies they were not major strategic targets as such a strategic target would have been targeted in bombing raids being planned by Air Force generals when they were not yet privy to what the Manhattan Project was about to give them. But even here, one could argue it was less the impact of terror bombing in the traditional sense so much as the Japanese realizing that a bomb that destroys most of a city in a single blow, that can be delivered to the next city every few days is not a fight you can win - that their surrender was less one of terror than one of pragmatism finally winning out over their honour codes. Or it could be that the Japanese were already considering the Potsdam ultimatum and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were one hell of a good argument in favour of accepting its demand for unconditional surrender.
(The Potsdam ultimatum was a message sent from the allies to Japan, demanding unconditional surrender and threatening "prompt and utter destruction" otherwise. They did translate it into Japanese before sending it, which...may or may not have been a good thing - that one's hard to figure. However, since it was a public demand, the Japanese press knew about that, and one of them asked the Japanese PM about it, to which he responded with a phrase that includes " _Mokusatsu_ ". In English, this has a variety of meanings depending on context. The dictionary definition is "take no notice of, treat (anything) with silent contempt, ignore [by keeping silence], remain in a wise and masterly inactivity," but in press conversations, and in the phrase used, the total meaning is the equivalent of saying "no comment" in English. Which doesn't mean "I'm deliberately ignoring it," so much as "I don't want to tell you (the press) anything." Which is perfectly reasonable: any inkling of the idea of surrendering is something you want to make sure is announced properly, not blurted out in response to a question at a press conference. Thing is, the Americans got ahold of it, translated it using the dictionary definition of _Mokusatsu_ and read it as a middle finger raised in their direction. Of course, everyone who knows the truth of what the Japanese government was doing with the Potsdam ultimatum during those days before the bomb fell is dead, and they took that secret to their graves. We have no way of knowing how Japan would have responded. We know that they had no chance from a strategic perspective even without the atomic bomb - in addition to American efforts that had been relentlessly advancing despite Japan's vigorous opposition that had proceeded almost non-stop since the Battle of Midway, Soviet forces were being redeployed from Europe for developing Soviet invasion plans...but WWII's European theatre shows that having no strategic path to victory is by no means a predictor that a country will surrender.)
The atomic bombs were not the main reason Japan surrendered. The main reason they surrendered is cause the Russians were going to invade. They knew that if Russia invaded and conquered the continent they would have killed the emperor and turned Japan Communist. That was utterly unacceptable to Japans government and since the allies were offering to allow the emperor to stay in place if they surrendered, it was the better option for them by far.
History rocks keep it up 👍
Arthur Harris had the same realization a lot of commanders that saw combat in their youth came to: The longer you try to prolong the conflict in hopes of reducing casualties, the more blood is spilled.
Soo you butcher civilians to save your soldiers? Is that what this lesson is?
If so, I guess Al Quaida are the true heirs of Arthur Harris.
I remember the moment i heard the intro of hellriders in that show in the netherlands. was absolutely awesome. unfortunately i was the only in my group to recognize it. Broek uit, op je hoofd!
4:42 That's Lübeck, my parents live just to the right of the frame.
I’m glad they were ok (or THEIR) parents; I guess it’s not a war crime when we do it! (I say ‘we’ because I’m American)
After today's episode I'm certain Joakim is a true nerd at heart (fantasy is common theme to metal for him to use and no women to his mind, but history). I salute him.
I have an Idea related to metalizer on April fool's day you should do Shadows a history of the Nazgul
It would be cool if you did a History of the band/Fist for Fight episode.