Top 5: Genetic Traits Tied to Illness & Disease in Fancy Type Fish. From Balloon Rams to Goldfish
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- There are so many other genes and even specific lines of fish being bred that we did not cover in this video. beyond Goldfish, Guppies, mollies, patties, German blue rams, Oscar's and balloon bodied Fish. from Albino to colorful. hybrid species to pure bred and usually inbred genetics, these are my top 5 Troublesome traits that are popular in the fishkeeping hobby.
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What I like most about this channel over other Aquarium channels is that you don't state your personal opinions as fact.
Finally this topic is being discussed, is getting out of hand ,in my opinion, the excessive amount of mutation that we see nowadays and definitely depend on us, the buyers, if we approve certain mutation on any creature. Well explained Alex, it is important to take into consideration the possible suffering of those animals.Thanks.
15:17 That short-bodied Bichir genuinely made me recoil in shock.
What... even is going on with that guy? I mean its back is messed up for sure, but what's with that axolotl gill thing going on? Is that normal? What kind of a hybrid is this???
fishbreeding really embodies the "I know that i can, but never asked if i should" - these mutations really giving 'hills have eyes' vibes.
@@NamelessNancy1312 Dude, yeah. Poor fish.
Im glad I saw this because now I recognize Balloon Gouramis are bred.
Awesome :) 😀
Generally speaking, I think the colouration and body shape that evolved in nature is far more interesting and beautiful than line bread counterparts. Goldfish being orange might be a an objection to that rule, however celestial, bubble eyed and egg shaped goldfish with missing fins are sad monstrosities. In most cases an albino fish is not as interesting as wild type colours, I’ve seen albino cardinal tetras that have just lost what makes them so stunning. Some of the line breading that enhances the natural colouration (appisto double reds for example) can be quite spectacular, however. This is only my opinion of course! Great video Alex, thanks 👍
Agreed 👍🏻
I always wanted to do a tank with wild-colored goldfish. I always thought that goldfish just look cute no matter which color, and that it would be cool to do a tank with a naturalistic aesthetic
I'm not sure there is a wild type goldfish, I think it might be a hybridised crucian carp but I could be wrong...I'm sure Alex might have an idea!
@@andycarter4581 I have seen them around, they're often sold as "Bronze goldfish"
@@BlackLotusVisualArchive nice, do they stay bronze or turn orange over time? That would would be a great tank idea... need a decent sized tank though! 👍
With scoliosis, I can't see those bent spine pictures without feeling compassion; what a life of pain for those poor creatures. I think you've talked me out of any future balloon purchases; there's a lone balloon molly at PetSmart that used to have my small herd of normal mollies for friends, and I almost bought it seeing it sit alone there for weeks. I hope he or she gets some friends soon.
My daughter has scoliosis as well. I will not ever buy a balloon mollie.
@@bookmouse2719 does it cause her pain? I would imagine it causes discomfort at the very least.
Buyer BEWARE of what goes on, the consequences and what YOU, as the buyer, are are supporting therefore encouraging !!! A thousand likes for this video, Alex !!!
I love betta fish. They’re so smart and inquisitive. I’ve been taking a break from them since my last two had died of cancer. They were both from different breeders too. Surprise surprise; the marble gene that makes up like 90% of bettas I’ve seen on the market rn causes and increase risk of cancer
It sucks because they really are such cool fish
Yeah that's a major bummer. I didn't know that about the marble gene. Thanks for the (unfortunate) info
take look at wild types of betta fish, for example betta smaragdina , I've been fortunate enough to see some specimens in Cambodia in their natural habitat
I think fish keepers should be striving to keep these fish in as natural a habitat as we can possibly manage for our level of resources. That includes live plants, proper lighting, water care, a varied diet, compatible tank mates, etc.
It seems counter intuitive at best to go through all that trouble just to breed fish to meet our aesthetic needs at the cost of their health. Ethical breeders could select for colour and pattern without going so far as to deform fish in the process. I don’t think that should even be a controversial take.
We can't even reach this conclusion with mammals like dogs; an animal pretty much every pet owner agrees on requiring humane treatment. Yet these people still also buy deformed pugs (and other deformed unhealthy breeds) for hundreds of dollars.
Fish? A large chunk of people in hobby still don't think of them as anything more than disposable things that will die and get replaced.
It's all very sad.
@@yossarian00 yep. I hate the trend of mutating animals for fashion. It's disgusting. I feel so awful for pugs and persian cats, both of which make rasping wheezing or snorting noises while trying to breathe... and the owners think these noises are "cute" ugh. 😢
Thank you Alex. This subject has long been needed to be brought out and make people aware of what happens to the fish with man made mutations. It's a subject that alot of us think of as being TABU and usually leads to arguments when someone brings it up for discussion. But you've handled it in a scientific manner without bias to either side and have just given the truth of what a fish CAN suffer with to accomplish these body types. I happen to agree with you about the balloon mutation being the most detrimental on these poor fish. Thanks again for the education of the top mutations and the illness and pain that the fish are forced to try and live with. 😢
I do not like ballon fish, in Germany it is not allowed and I am happy about it.
Glow fish are not allowed, too. I think to breed (natural) colour variations are ok.
Albinos have often problems with light. I do not think it is worth to breed them, because of the lack of melatonin in the eyes. It is known, that light can be painfull for albinos.
Great job going over this topic. I think your comments section is also one of the more interesting ones I've seen.
I appreciate that! And I love this community and our viewers! So wonderful and thoughtful
Great topic ❤ unfortunately we do the same to pretty much every other domestic pet too. It's unfortunate that we breed these animals with no regard for their health only looks. 😢 I personally won't buy any animal that has been bred with deformities that affect their quality of life
Pooooor pugs
Exactly @@Fishtory unfortunately pugs just scratch the service with dogs. French bull dogs and English bulldogs can't even reproduce without medical intervention
I learned a lot from this, I have been out of the hobby for years and had no idea a lot of this stuff even existed
It's getting wild ,( or rather domesticated ). Out in international markets
Wooo Fishtory twice in the week!
Personally, I prefer natural/wild type mostly, and have for many years. I have been known to keep some "artificial" colour morphs, and "friendly" hybrids but I keep to the ones that don't have knowledge of will get health issues.
I back away as I pick up more knowledge, which is why I appreciate your videos.
I absolutely LOVE fancy goldfish, I think they're beautiful and frankly adorable, but I abhor how they're bred. I specifically got my two fish from the 'assorted' tanks because both had longer bodies and smaller characteristics than what is normal for them. I have a regular fantail with short fins and a longer body (though he might be a terrible ryukin), and an oranda with a long body, short fins, and a thin wen. They're cute, healthy, but I'm still taking a lot of care to make sure they're living their best lives. They're both in a 55 gallon tank with a small school of gold barbs (two of which were rescues with bent spines, one worse than the other, but both are thriving and acting completely normal), with smooth river stone decor, anubias, a large piece of driftwood to swim under and hide under and peck algae off of, and a TON of riparium plants to suck up nitrites and nitrates. I don't think I'll get goldfish after them, both because I know their eventual death will break my heart, but if I do I'll select them similarly to how I did, searching for "bad" traits to ensure my goldies live as long as possible while compromising with my aesthetic desires. But if you want a fish you know will be healthy... don't get a goldfish, lol. Even the feeder fish and comets can be hiding some nasty stuff, especially feeders.
TLDR: I picked my fancy goldfish by going straight to the reject bin and picking the fish with long bodies, short fins, and characteristics of their breeds that aren't as pronounced or detrimental. This satisfied my need for a healthy AND pretty fish.
Well sometimes we can't help it. The heart wants what the... discount bin doesn't?
Hi Alex, would you make a video on plant warfare in the freshwater aquarium? Like what plants will actively try to fight others and the impact on the tank/inhabitants, and what plants cannot be housed together. Thanks!
I always think of saltwater corals doing this, not the freshwater plants, lol. That's definitely warfare going on as far as placement and mobility. Now I am wondering, what plants might not like being planted together or if some plants have symbiotic plantings, like out in my vegetable garden
Also the plants that do great together
Yes, like taking all the light, taking up all the room while small plant in the dark and crowded out. I trim some of those aggressive plants away.
Thank you for educating me. I purchased balloon electric blue rams without realizing the balloon body was a mutation. I won’t be purchasing others in the future, but will give my guys and gals the best shortened life I can.
That's how you go! I am glad they ended up with you, who will take the best care of them you can, and then not support the breeding anymore. Good on you ❤
Amen
Only "balloon" fish I have ever seen is goldfish and the extreme ones are not that popular here. I'm glad that local fish stores won't sell them and I think lot of aquarist disapproves them here in 🇫🇮
Unfortunately since I live in Southeast Asian country I've noticed that people around here prefer fish with various deformities from mild ones such as albinism, to extreme scoliosis, which is pretty wild considering that you can find some of most beautiful wild fishes in road side ditches, in puddles, in rice fields I even once caught dwarf snake-head on the middle of the road after the rain.
Excellent
Artificial selection can be a real bitch once aesthetics are involved. The same issue exists in all regions of the pet trade, like blind albino herps, brachycephalic dogs and cats, growth challenged chickens, and stunted horses. The things people do to sell animals is crazy.
I was considering getting fancy goldfish but am now re considering this after reading more about them and listening to this. I like bettas and recently found out about wild type bettas and much prefer those. It difficult seeing those with big fins having difficult swimming
I've been fortunate enough to see betta smaragdina specimens couple of times in their natural habitat in Cambodia, interestingly every region will have slight variations in color and pattern wild populations show greater variability than selectively bred fish
Throw away comment for the algorithm.
There is a albino raven flying around Anchorage and its popular with the locals, albino animals are super pretty IMO
I saw an albino crow once but it was getting mobbed and attacked by the black crows. I don't think it will have survived.
@@giftofthewild6665 the one here has been here for years, but I've never seen it with other ravens
@@giftofthewild6665😢
This is so important! Thank you for sharing 🌻 and so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌
You write what I think!!! Having been immersed in betta and koi for half a century and with a hit and run relationship with fancy goldfish since childhood, I love/hate the breeding of deformities- yet I am an enabler of deformity breeders since 1970s! I watched you thread the needle here and you did an excellent job- but bottom line in MHO it borders on immortality at the end of the day. I also accept that people are weak and it all is a personal decision - call it 'Human Privilage' . They ( beginners) also don't necessarily sense the struggle of the deformed species- it takes time to develop an empathy for these species- but eventually it hits you. As a reformed deformity collector and keeper, I only keep more natural finned betta hybrids these days. And I have always boycotted hypertrophy in any species other than the long finned betta. And fancy goldfish? I have sworn off the poor creatures like an alcoholic says not to vodka! It might sound hypocritical but I do collection color morphs and color mutations and there is MY personal line in the sand.
My line is also drawn at the same place actually :) but I also have to remind myself...some people haven't learned the tough lessons of watching fish die slowly of cancers and mutations plauging their breeding tanks...and also that some cultures just don't care about fish or their wellbeing... to which I understand, but disagree with
Top notch dissemination of information as always, Alex.
Amazing vid on such an important topic! 💞Personally not a fan at all of the balloon trait in any species, can't find it cute when I know how bad it is for them to be shaped that way 😬
I totally agree! Cheers
I've been so excited for this video thank you for putting this important info out.
Great video, well researched as always, that's why I like your channel. Very tricky subject.. For me, I would say that the fish need to be able to have a normal, healthy aquarium life (forget about the wild, few fish we keep would last a day). I do not like balloon fish, those Pearl Scale goldfish that look like golf balls, Bubble Eyes and that Bichir is just an abomination. Then again, I do like the more standard fancy goldfish (Had some Orandas and Ryukins in the past that lived a long time but I do have my doubts these days though) and I have nothing against Parrots, as my Dachshund is lying here next to me.. so some hypocrisy perhaps.
I'm with you. I actually like the subtle balloon body gold rams...they just look like babies forever, and likewise I love some goldfish looks as well. But anything where movement is limited it way too far for me
I really appreciate this topic. it's food for thought. I know some things like ballooning was trouble some but the angel fish really hit home with deformities. Thank you for your research.
Good information!
Glad you think so!
Humans always take things to the extreme.
I don't have the energy to say my twp cents worth on this subject rn but just wanted to comment to say YT finally put this video in my recommendations so hi! Also I have a question, what was that monster you showed at the end of #2? Looks very interesting and curious if that thing is a hybrid, selectively bred, or a natural stonefish or other odd specialist, and just a bit curious if it's something big or not and if it's as mean as that face looks ^^'. Ty for this video though, any interest and i may post my thoughts later in a reply
Great topic thanks again 🤓
Every time you buy a variant, you directly contribute to making more of these, so you're not "rescuing" the fish, you're just making them a good commercial product.
So stop and think before you buy some poor creature that barely exists on its own.
awesome video✌✌
THANK YOU FOR DISCUSSING THIS💙💙💙💙💙
Thanks for listening and pushing the message by commenting etc
i prefer the health of my fish over aesthetic, especially when it really brings out their natural personalities when theyre not hindered- me and my mom get very very emotionally attached to our fish and seeing them leave us sooner than they should from deformities from the breeder (my mom grabbed a balloon ram, because she thought he was so cute- didnt reach even two years because his organs burst one night :() has always been heartbreaking, i have two tanks with two short finned bettas, a community tank with tetra and pearl gourami, and two tanks with some socially distanced guppies (we all know why… im not one to let inbreeding happen lol) and a weather loach and these guys are beautiful, friendly and cute just the way they evolved
AWSOME ❤
Most interesting thanks fortunately I’ve not seen many of these but it explains why all,my red cap oranda goldfish have died whilst still small .
certain long fins are ok depending on species - When breeding body deformities into fish and makig deformed hybrids like the blood parrot and "polar" cichlids to name a couple are imo wrong. That is my opinion and if folks do not like it , that is their issue not mine.
Humanity may want to rethink what is truly ethical in the treatment of/experimentation with genetics of the species (across all species of animals)we keep and wish for. Thanks for the fine reporting and shedding the light Alex! 😊☮❤🐠🦐🪴
My biggest "hate" in this hobby! Even more than beginners with fishbowls.
There is alot of " eye of the beholder" type stuff going on here. I really like the color morf of the red Rio von tetra. I also notice this color morf tends to have swim bladder issues. Once a certain color morf becomes popular the cat is out of the bag as it were and there is no going back. If I stop buying the fish will it have any positive effect on the market in any way ? Probably not .
While this is true on a solo level, there are things like tattooing fish that were once extremely common and now are seen as taboo or tacky and don't get imported to the USA much anymore
You alone won't change the world but if you stop buying them *and* you advocate that others stop buying them (and then other people who stop buying them also advocate for others to do the same) eventually changes are made.
Glad to see this critical discussion and I'd love some advice!
I've had this fantail goldfish for the past year. I tried to select the most active and interesting looking goldfish at a small business fish store. But this goldfish turned out to have a more balloon-type body (ryukin cull maybe?) and I can't cure their chronic swim bladder issues. They're belly heavy and end up floating upside down often and have weak swimming against the water flow. But they've thrived other than this chornic issue.
1. I'm trying to get goldfish with flowing fins and good colour while maintaining good health and living conditions. I need help with selecting healthier goldfish out of the fancies. While I'd love to get into single fins, I don't have enough space for them in my 30g soon-to-be-aquaponics fish tank.
2. Any thoughts on how to better care for a chronically imbalanced goldfish?
I have to save this one for later today... I'm scared to look at these the close ups. Close to the heart. I wasn't ready when I clicked. I'll be back. 😳
Nice video Alex!
I've always tried stocking my community tanks with natural wild type variants. But I have to admit I've fallen pray to human introduced morphs. The fancy guppies, albino corys, betas and veil tail angels. There are a lot of deformities that I don't believe in, especially when they impact the health of the fish.
I like breeding for colour and usually don't mind long fin fish, but I've always found the other stuff a little cruel
Nice video!!! What are your thoughts on tea cup platties?
I've always preferred wild variety of fish . They're behavior is always more interesting. But with hybridization there could be ethical ways to do it. Most humans alive today are the result of hybridization between homo sapiens Neanderthal and denosivans. But with out natural pressures to weed out the bad genes you end up with monstrosities.
So interesting for the newbs like me!!
I will ALWAYS choose the natural form of a fish.
Same. For the most part I prefer wild colouration too: ie endlers and guppies.
There are some colour morphs that I do really like even though they are unnatural (eg the green tiger barb or the leucistic "lemon" ancistrus) but I try to avoid the ones that I know cause the fish suffering.
I have a few neon tetras with big bellies ,they arent sick ,actually theyre super heathy and theyre twice size of my other neons,I thought about and wondered if they may have ballon gene type
I just want happy, healthy, natural fish. 🙁
A healthy fish is always more beautiful and interesting to me than an unhealthy manufactured one...
I have a blue gourami a bunch of bristlenose and balloon mollys in a tank
The Mollys tend to outcompete the other species in a lot of ways.
But i think this is more of a numbers game.
A lot of the fry is not balloon, in the long run i think those would take over ofcourse.
Oh definitely live bearers will eventually out compete most other fish.
Hello from upstate NY 🤓🐠🎸
i breed goldfish, specifically fancies. I do have a couple of the breeds i find personally tolerable and healthy over all, which would be my orandas, fantails, shubunkins, and black moors. I keep ranchus(rescues) and i would never breed them or any of the ones like celestial eyes or bubble eyes, which are awful
Thanks for sharing. Do you have an opinion on the pearl scales and ping pong ball body types?
@@Fishtory I don’t have any real experience with them, but from what I’ve seen they are pretty similar enough to celestial eyes QoL wise I wouldn’t wanna touch them
@Blank-rc2lg yeah I've just seen import orders where 75% were DOA ...so I figured as much. Bummer
I have a female endler with the spinal curve, i didn't think she'd make it, but she's still with me and healthy, I know it's because they were bred to heck and back (i didn'tnoticethis bc shewas so teeny wheni got my girlsforthemale). I have to admit, I do love beautiful finnage, sigh, my beta, Black Eyed Jack, is a "black" type of fancy fin beta, im always checking his health, i actually feel like I rescued him. 😢He was in a dirty cup, twice the price he should have been at the pet store. SOLD. NOW he's got a planted tank to himself with a couple shrimp and snails and he's a teeny dude, just a juvenile. He's so much more "happy" blowing bubbles, exploring his tank plants. They're definitely bred and bred for certain aspects and misunderstood as to what care they actually need. He's in a planted, heated tank lol. No breeding program for him. I learned green neons are natural, not genetically bred, which I had 1st thought. I think breeders need to have some ethics, some genetic mutations are much less than others 😢
Have you done a video on mold? I've got like 3 different kinds, the most recent kind starts out looking like air bubbles or eggs but then they grow into pea sized translucent and perfectly circular blobs that the snails don't seem to prefer. Is there a way to get rid of it other than lowering feeding that won't end up killing the bacteria, live food, paramecium etc?
Also, what is the best way to help a fish bounce back from shipping? Since some fish are in transit for upto 2 weeks what is the best thing to use? Methylene blue? Or will that crash the tank? Prime? Additional oxygenation and heat? How long should they be kept seperate? Thanks 😊
I need to know who that man is dancing in the fish store! 😅
Me too
One that i think should’ve been included with the longfin gene is the dumbo gene seen in bettas and guppies. I for one am a huge fan of these but have never thought they could be linked to any deeper conditions the fish may contract, does anyone know of any problems other than slightly reduced swimming ability based on the intensity of the finnage?
Probably just the same as any longfin variety - weaker to infections of the fins
I know a lot about these problems in fancy goldfish I have kept them for 15+ years. There are types I don't believe should exist anymore like the crown pearl scale and round types of demekin, which are so prone to swim bladder deformities they live terrible lives. Some fish that seem like abominations are just misunderstood, like the celestial whose eyes are turned upwards. They're meant to be viewed from above and when kept in a small pond grow quite large and are strong swimmers. They can see you and you can see them. In my experience I had a veiltail telescope who by 2 years of age couldn't swim higher than an inch or two without drifting back down because she couldn't lift her tail. Otherwise was in good health, happy and lived about 8 years. All fancy goldfish breeders should cull their fish carefully and they have to because that is the only way to ensure that the genetics stay intact. People buy fish assuming that a pretty fish on the outside means a pretty fish on the inside. They should only be sourced from expert breeders. People need to follow their own compass as to whether a certain type of goldfish deserves to exist. But it is crucial to find breeders who are selling healthy fish. If we don't do that, we can consider these fish as we know them an endangered species. I believe that and I'm seeing it already. I purchased my last two fish from a local fish store only because I couldn't find a breeder or an auction. Thank you for drawing attention to this.
Thank you. Well said.
🥂!
Honestly I have mixed feelings about it. Some of the more established species like the ryukin goldfish for example have that humpback shape but they seem to be more consistent I guess. I don't like the wen. To me it's just a benign tumor. I don't mind nucal humps . They are common enough natural trait so I don't consider it a deformity unless it's ridiculous in size. I love flowerhorns but flowerhorn has become such a loose term that some of them I wouldn't even call that. I saw one the other day that looked more like a green terror. In general I make my opinion on how much it affects the health of the fish. Is it a unique trait being encouraged or a created disability? And yeah, sometimes that line can be thin.
I agree with you
So, I bought a dragonscale Betta in February, 2024. It is the one that has a white body and short red fins. Now, three months later, the dragonscales have grown over the eyes and the fish is almost blind. What is that all about? When I did a Google Image search on Betta blindness, guess what picture I got? Right. The white bodied fish with red scales. Something has gone wrong in fish breeding. This should never happen. It is unethical and it is contrary to the evolutionary process. It comes at a cost to the fish breed, the cost of the buyer, the emotional pain of the pet keeper, and of course, the fish itself. We should not support these efforts to reengineer what has been carefully wrought through the thousands years of natural selection and natural mutation. And, that statement, believe it or not, is coming from a creationist. We shouldn't be tinkering with the Divine design of evolution. We are just going to screw it up. My poor blind Betta is testimony to that.
@fishistory ! Alex, i breed a few kinds of k class guppies i crossed myself . Well anyway , i have an adult male guppy with a Conjoined Twin ! They are about two years old now ! The conjoined twin has its own body and tail , no observable head or face parts !
If you would like to see or know more about him or them 🤔😊 please let me know !?
Does this also apply to caridina and neo caridina to extract their color by obtaining increasingly weaker specimens?
I was just watching a lot of Sturgeon videos. They're one of my favorite fish, I learned some naturally hybridize in the wild. I was horrified by the fact people BUY Sturgeon for their backyard ponds! Most all Sturgeon species are endangered and they're are breeding programs by countries trying to increase their numbers but seriously, i cannot believe people are putting these beautiful fish who get massive, in their small backyard ponds!!! Ughhhh. LOL sorry, but this video brought them to mind. Breeding some property in that physically interferes with the health of the animal is just terrible practice 😢smh
Pets/animals are a crutch at best until we've the mental health to focus on humans & technology instead. We could start by ending breeds w/mutations that cause pain & suffering like hair on dogs (poodles) or the deformities to their body's that interfere with breathing, mobility, and procreation (french bulldog). We can give a blind person their vision in 64 pixels today... think how much better we could be if we stopped investing in seeing-eye-animals. Thanks for another insightful video! Very helpful.
Interesting points to consider, thank you as well
I have asthma and seeing fish out of water makes me upset. Oi va voi
I’ve never been a huge fan of the culture type of fish. The veil type and the balloon types are sheer animal cruelty in my eyes.
To a certain degree I can see and understand that it’s a matter of clever breeding and especially in-breeding, but when breeding takes a negative toll on the ability to swim, we’re on the wrong path.
comparing wild fish with aquarium breeds is like comparing chicken with the wild birds, even worse when they're selectively bred to induce abnormalities, just disgusting
It’s horrible and cruel and should not be allowed. Many of these animals cannot live a normal life and have constant pain or diseases. The same goes basically for deformed dogs that have no noses or small heads. It’s cruel.
Balloon molly live just as long as normal molly. I've heard it said they have a shorter lifespan but in my experience that is not true.
Even if their lifespan is the same, they are suffering from their internal organs being constricted.
I would never purchase any of these mutated fish.
Those poor loves 😔 I have never understood the lives for profit mentality or that we think we own the living and can just take and do what we please with them because we can? When will we learn? It's like we are just stopping ourselves from becoming more compassionate towards these animals, these forever innocent beings that we supposedly love. They all make me cringe. Especially the bettas, probably because I see them so often. Respect and protection, even from ourselves is desperately needed. We have SO many little lives here already in the US. We just always want more. I hope more see these living, breathing, thinking beings as just that. There's no need for any of this. The natural world needs our help, so our friends can live how they were intended. Free. If they aren't free, it's all for us, not them. 💙🩵💚💌
I think I rescued a 'balloon ' Pleco ?
Not a fan of the balloon mutation even visually 👀🫣