Very informative blog. Special about the brushes. F5 has 4 brushes. Of course you know it. Just a lifle info to other viewers. Keep up the good work Dan 👍
I have a Permobil, one of the prototypes from when they first showed them to the FDA to approve for sale here in the USA. It is a great off road scooter now. Been running strong for over 20 years I think.
Thank you very much for sharing, you have no idea how much pleasure it gives me to watch these types of videos. It helps me understand and review wheelchairs better, tks 🪖🎩
Just found you… you are the best teacher. Just wish you could talk me through chopping my scooter into a low rider. I am a gardener and have ducks, chickens etc, my short scooter is how I take care of them all. It rides 6 inches off the ground, I sit on a Roho on the floor boards of the scooter. Sigh, I know nothing of wiring but live in the boonies so thank you for the videos, I am watching for the bits that help. 👍
Nice video! When Permobil went from the 300 to the 3 and 5 series, they reduced the number of bolts holding each drive wheel to the hub from 4 to 3. That concerned me initially, but with proper torque and thread lock, all has been good. Excellent advice on backing up the screws counter-clockwise until the threads align and "click" before screwing them in clockwise.This is very important when working on the plastic ICS unit. The plastic posts that the screws thread into will easily cross-thread, and the post can split.
I have this F3 also from 2016 and just now lost the use of the right-hand motor, I don't think it is a brush issue but rather some other electric issue. I viewed this video so I would know 1st hand the process of removing and reinstalling the motor/ drive gear assembly. Good video thanks for sharing.
yeah! yup, been wanting to see this. dan, get a few boxes from a big box store. or a good chair mat. i have a few good thick boxes to protect the floor. the low friction of cardboard makes it easier to slide around to work on my chairs. works outside as well. my floor jack got to heavy for me. lol bought one of the new electric jacks. LOVE IT! you should check them out. amazon sells several models. if i didn't have AAA i would get one for my van even. take care. great video on the f3 motors! thnx!
Thumbs up for your motor Brush replacement video, very interesting, my local provider here in New Zealand, does not routinely replace brushes because it’s considered a little bit fiddly and they tell me by the time the motor comes in for service it usually something else wrong with it and they just replace it LOL years ago I’m talking 20+ years ago motors used to be completely disassembled and serviced, but I suspect now the cost is the Factor that stops people from doing that
Hey bro! Great videos thanks. My m3 broke relpaced batteries, tested amp on every wire. Most likely cpu issue. Putting two m300's together and fixing the tilt actuator. Definitely not wanting till july 24th. Nice work thanks!
Dan that was one of your best VLOG’s Really you at your best. Extremely Thorough, Just one Thing Did you add Treadlock to the blot(s) as your refiting them ? Edited to add: 10Nm (Newton metres) of torque is the motor blot setting of which there are 5 on, My Late 2019 Sunrise Medical Quickie Puma 40 Pro S Line Gyro RWD in my service manual Not sure if there the same but I would think there much the same.
havent been able to get my hands on one unfortunately :^/ but the F5 is essentially the same chair as the F3... a few inches longer/wider, with a bit better ride quality, more speed, and a taller seat elevator.
Damn, your good. I have a problem with an old but very good Invicare TDX-SP from 09 I use as a daily driver (because my F3 does not fit in my ford E250. I use and been beating up my TDX for years without any problems until yesterday. I got a "left motor fault" on the display. Assuming a problem with the left motor I disconnected both motors and when I powered up the chair I still get a left motor fault and nothing happens. Do you have any ideas? Would appreciate any input
usually start with the basics - check all the wiring and motor connections... if ya wanna get fancy, ya could check the resistance of the motor windings with a volt meter - unplug the motor cables form the main controller and check the larger pins - compare the resistance readings from left and right, if one is WAY different than the other, you'll know there may be an issue with that motor i think 2009 was before the 'sealed durawatt' motors for invacare, but those older motors (especially the 4 pole ones) tend to go bad a lot..
@@TotallyNormal- thanks for the advice. I checked the resistance of both motors-there the same. What puzzles me is that I disconnected both motors, bypassed the original joy stick and connected a new backup joy stick control and I still get a split second display reading “control fault” then immediately the same display, “left motor fault”
uh oh! can ya tell where the oil is coming from? sounds like one of the gearboxes has a leak! they should take care of it though, since its a brand new chair :^)
Thanks for this one! I need to do this to my super old chair. I wonder how much brush dust settles in between the commutator's surfaces (which can have a substantial negative effect on efficiency). Taking it apart completely would be better, but was it you once(?) who showed the because of locktight, the bolts that hold the brake can just break off.. RIP motor.
yes - the bolts / screws that hold the motor onto the gearbox will break 95% of the time. they're very small diameter - also similar to a torque-to-yield style bolt. which means that when tightened the metal actually stretches. making removal VERY difficult. as for the rest of the bolts.. once they're out they can be brushed clean easily. this type ff thread sealant is single-use.
its possible - depending on the chair.. some of them might get warm or go into thermal lockout.. but something small and light weight isnt usually too much an an issue..
Very informative blog. Special about the brushes. F5 has 4 brushes. Of course you know it. Just a lifle info to other viewers. Keep up the good work Dan 👍
I have a Permobil, one of the prototypes from when they first showed them to the FDA to approve for sale here in the USA. It is a great off road scooter now. Been running strong for over 20 years I think.
Thank you very much for sharing, you have no idea how much pleasure it gives me to watch these types of videos. It helps me understand and review wheelchairs better, tks 🪖🎩
Just found you… you are the best teacher. Just wish you could talk me through chopping my scooter into a low rider. I am a gardener and have ducks, chickens etc, my short scooter is how I take care of them all. It rides 6 inches off the ground, I sit on a Roho on the floor boards of the scooter. Sigh, I know nothing of wiring but live in the boonies so thank you for the videos, I am watching for the bits that help. 👍
Thx, and good wishes from germany 👍
Nice video!
When Permobil went from the 300 to the 3 and 5 series, they reduced the number of bolts holding each drive wheel to the hub from 4 to 3. That concerned me initially, but with proper torque and thread lock, all has been good.
Excellent advice on backing up the screws counter-clockwise until the threads align and "click" before screwing them in clockwise.This is very important when working on the plastic ICS unit. The plastic posts that the screws thread into will easily cross-thread, and the post can split.
You’re too much of a perfectionist glad to see i’m not the only one. Thanks
@Totally Normal Relating to our conversation about my Jazzy hd and cleaning brushes I'm watching this video now.
I have this F3 also from 2016 and just now lost the use of the right-hand motor, I don't think it is a brush issue but rather some other electric issue. I viewed this video so I would know 1st hand the process of removing and reinstalling the motor/ drive gear assembly. Good video thanks for sharing.
Great video. Probably not hook and loop velcro. Sounds like 3M Dual Lock which clicks into place.
yeah! yup, been wanting to see this. dan, get a few boxes from a big box store. or a good chair mat. i have a few good thick boxes to protect the floor. the low friction of cardboard makes it easier to slide around to work on my chairs. works outside as well. my floor jack got to heavy for me. lol bought one of the new electric jacks. LOVE IT! you should check them out. amazon sells several models. if i didn't have AAA i would get one for my van even. take care. great video on the f3 motors! thnx!
Great video / info / tutorial!
Thumbs up for your motor Brush replacement video, very interesting, my local provider here in New Zealand, does not routinely replace brushes because it’s considered a little bit fiddly and they tell me by the time the motor comes in for service it usually something else wrong with it and they just replace it LOL years ago I’m talking 20+ years ago motors used to be completely disassembled and serviced, but I suspect now the cost is the Factor that stops people from doing that
So that's what it looks like under the hood on the F3, I was curious to see how are you were able to get to the engines if you needed to repair them
Hey bro! Great videos thanks. My m3 broke relpaced batteries, tested amp on every wire. Most likely cpu issue. Putting two m300's together and fixing the tilt actuator. Definitely not wanting till july 24th. Nice work thanks!
Good video. Informative in many respects.
I’ve been waiting to see this video
Hey, I am wondering if you ever changed the motor cables. I am having problem with soldering the wires
can you sand down the brushes if there a little to big to make them fit for the size i need for mine ??
Thanks for sharing
I really need to do this to my chair as well, I was wondering if you had any armrest for a m300
I have 5 cats, a dog and a long-haired better half. Hair!
Dan that was one of your best VLOG’s Really you at your best. Extremely Thorough, Just one Thing Did you add Treadlock to the blot(s) as your refiting them ?
Edited to add: 10Nm (Newton metres) of torque is the motor blot setting of which there are 5 on, My Late 2019 Sunrise Medical Quickie Puma 40 Pro S Line Gyro RWD in my service manual Not sure if there the same but I would think there much the same.
Hi Dan,. Can you please do a review on the F5 Permobil?
havent been able to get my hands on one unfortunately :^/ but the F5 is essentially the same chair as the F3... a few inches longer/wider, with a bit better ride quality, more speed, and a taller seat elevator.
@@TotallyNormal- Thanks for the information! I wanted to know because I’m getting an F5 VS this year.
Cool! Ya other than the standing functions etc.. the chairs are 85% identical to the 3 series chairs…. But with moar awesome!
Please enable subtitles for portuguese!
Hugs from Brazil.
Good job!
Damn, your good. I have a problem with an old but very good Invicare TDX-SP from 09 I use as a daily driver (because my F3 does not fit in my ford E250. I use and been beating up my TDX for years without any problems until yesterday. I got a "left motor fault" on the display. Assuming a problem with the left motor I disconnected both motors and when I powered up the chair I still get a left motor fault and nothing happens. Do you have any ideas? Would appreciate any input
usually start with the basics - check all the wiring and motor connections... if ya wanna get fancy, ya could check the resistance of the motor windings with a volt meter - unplug the motor cables form the main controller and check the larger pins - compare the resistance readings from left and right, if one is WAY different than the other, you'll know there may be an issue with that motor
i think 2009 was before the 'sealed durawatt' motors for invacare, but those older motors (especially the 4 pole ones) tend to go bad a lot..
@@TotallyNormal- thanks for the advice. I checked the resistance of both motors-there the same. What puzzles me is that I disconnected both motors, bypassed the original joy stick and connected a new backup joy stick control and I still get a split second display reading “control fault” then immediately the same display, “left motor fault”
I actually am looking at a used F3
I have an F5 with about 9 miles, it has an oil leak, any suggestions? no warranty, and my local dealer only works on chairs they sold.
uh oh! can ya tell where the oil is coming from? sounds like one of the gearboxes has a leak!
they should take care of it though, since its a brand new chair :^)
Thanks for this one! I need to do this to my super old chair. I wonder how much brush dust settles in between the commutator's surfaces (which can have a substantial negative effect on efficiency). Taking it apart completely would be better, but was it you once(?) who showed the because of locktight, the bolts that hold the brake can just break off.. RIP motor.
yes - the bolts / screws that hold the motor onto the gearbox will break 95% of the time. they're very small diameter - also similar to a torque-to-yield style bolt. which means that when tightened the metal actually stretches. making removal VERY difficult.
as for the rest of the bolts.. once they're out they can be brushed clean easily. this type ff thread sealant is single-use.
What happens when the brushes need replacing? Is it worth it? Is it safer to buy new motors?
in a lot of cases, by the time the brushes need replacing, other parts are most likely are worn out as well..
@@TotallyNormal- thanks Dan I think there’s just under half the brush length left of both sides on all eight brushes
A little off topic but can the drive motors on electric wheelchairs have the capability to tow a little trailer or wagon?
its possible - depending on the chair.. some of them might get warm or go into thermal lockout.. but something small and light weight isnt usually too much an an issue..
@@TotallyNormal- thanks! Great videos BTW!
is the dust metallic?
carbon dust from motor brushes
Hmmm, those brush caps may be a interesting 3D printer thingverse file, for some ambitious soul to post
they would need to he high temp rated! thats why they're more of a fiber-based type plastic
Why don't they make some bad ass looking stuff already, I say leave the plastic covers off and dip everything in chrome.
Outrageous that you can’t just buy the brushes.