Tennis Forehand Wrist Lag Comparison - Federer vs Halep
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- If you're observing the tennis pros to improve your forehand wrist lag technique, then check Roger Federer's forehand technique and how it compares to Simona Halep's. 🎾 Free Forehand POWER COURSE: www.feeltennis...
The video above compares Roger's forehand wrist lag and drop technique with the one from Halep which doesn't create that much power but it gives her much more control and margin for error.
www.feeltennis....
You'll see that Federer aligns the racket properly to hit the ball very late in the forward swing and has a very small margin of error whereas Halep does that much earlier in the swing.
You'll also learn what the concept of a stable wrist is and how you can feel it.
And when it comes to the wrist lag it's crucial that you allow it to happen regardless of which forehand drop technique you're using because only then can you hit your forehands with effortless power.
Thanks to Jorge Capestany for letting me use his videos!
Check out his channel: / tennisdrillstv
I am a USTA 4.0 player working towards the goal of being 4.5. I have consistently watched your lessons on RUclips for several years. You are an excellent teacher able to take extremely complex concepts and break them down in their simplest terms. It allows us to take this concepts to the court and implement them seeing incremental and consistent change when applied diligently. I want to thank you for being so generous and providing excellent content and instruction . You have helped my tennis game immensely and for this I am VERY grateful! God Bless you and your family!
You are simply one of the best instructors I've ever seen on youtube, if not the best. I was trying to understand difference for a long time. I'm thankful for your detailed explanation!
dionisis11
dionisis11 😫
haha 69 likes
Me too.
I'm 3.5+ with a lacking forehand as I've never been able to find a confident stroke with it. My backhand is my bread and butter and my serve is coming along. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out my forehand. Every other aspect of my game has progressed, except my forehand. I spent 1.5 years, attempting to methodically figure out how to hit a proper forehand. I spent many hours with coaches, who didn't break things down for me, nor pointing out what I was missing. I've watched so, so many youtube videos, thought my footwork was bad and that my spacing was off. I could never figure out what the problems were. The mechanics always felt off and the results were random as much as they were inconsistent.
I learned a lot of other forehand mechanics along the way, and usually there's not a 1 thing fixes all, but today there was. This video fixed all of those problems that I thought existed. I cannot put my happiness into text. No one discussed edge down and a stabilized wrist using the details you have. It is the happiest tennis day I've ever had. I was confidently hitting winners, hitting inside out for the first time in my life today. I'm writing this all to say, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
That is just wonderful to hear, you not only made my day but you made my week! ;)
Amazing! Exceptionally clear, technically-detailed, and very helpful instruction. This guy is the don! I must have watched 1,000+ tennis videos on RUclips and this is one of the absolute best. Vamos!
Llllllll a
El mayor secreto del tenis muy bien contado !!!
As a former competitive player and longtime coach I have to say you are the best tennis instructor on RUclips.
Similar background for me, and I totally agree
me too!!!!!
I have to agree 🙏🙏🙏
That’s so true this channel explains in a simple and concise way
Thomas you are the best!
Great explanation on the effect of the forehand drop technique on the racket head speed.
BUT you are completely overlooking the effect on topspin!
This is what allows you to muster the power of the Federer-like drop technique: at contact, the whip motion of a relaxed wrist generates ten times the amount of topspin.
So, maybe not at a purely recreational level, but for upper tier amateur competitors, it is surprisingly easy to master, because the added topspin makes the ball dip into the court like magic.
You just have to imagine that your racket is a whip, and that the contact point is where you want your whip to make the cracking sound. Very simple.
True, the timing is a bit trickier, but even if you are a bit late on some shots, the added topspin will help you keep control of the ball. Just try to keep the contact point in front and all will be fine.
It is not half as tricky as you seem to imply it is.
I made the transition to this whipy style in about half a season, and I gained tremendous amount of power AND control. Very natural and effortless once you have understood the principle.
Frederic Sarge, you are probably not a 3.5 player or a weekend only 4.0!
I think its so difficult to quantify relative difficulties. If it was so much less easy to contol then i doubt any pros would do it. Its all risk / reward. Risk of unforced error vs risk of hitting a shot easily returned too. So i agree it is complicated yes.
I just started this technique last Summer at age 60 and it’s finally coming along. It’s my 4th generation forehand. It’s fun to work on technique after playing tennis for 5 decades!
Why face down gives you more spin?
@@bournejason66 it's not the (static) face down position per se, it's the storage of elastic energy from pronated forearm during the take back, to elastically supinated forearm when the racket reaches the face down position and then starts accelerating forward (also called "racket lag"). The supination -pronation isn't forced, it's just a consequence of racket inertia on a loose arm. That's why it works best with heavier sticks (with 320+ swingweight). In WTA style, there's also supination-pronation but it is artificial, not elastic, hence not as efficient. You don't have the same slingshot-effect topspin at contact point.
This is a fundamentally Earth shattering explaination .. I have never heard any if the pros able to explain the atp vs the WTA forehand so succinctly. This guy may not be the best coach out there, but he is certainly the best free coach!!
You are best Tomaz, wish I could train with you. You talk the truth, and always make me remember that I am a recreational player and that I need to approach the game according to my level and not try to copy the pro's that has been playing tennis they where 4 years old. While other youtubers promises magic formulas to get the "federer forhand" you tell us to wake up and know our limitations. Thank you! :)
881684err444
You are single handily the best tennis instructor on youtube. Your timing vids and highball/fastball vid (about starting the stroke early) changed my game! This will give me something new to chew on
He's good but there are better. He does great work for players who are just getting into tennis, most of his lessons are very basic, he couldn't teach a stronger player very much at all!
Everyone has an opinion, yours my friend is interesting. However, opinions are like butts everyone has one too. I don't suppose you are playing ATP tennis . If you are please share some thoughts on hitting a forehand that might be of value to your peers. All the best in your match play.
actually the fact that he can REACH beginners, in ways that tap into the fundamental aspects of biomechanics effectively proves that he could coach a pro. A mind like his...is easily adaptable to the needs of an advanced player.
You are totally wrong in my opinion. I've seen many coaches, some of them in theory very high level, and quite a few others in youtube. This one excels, he has an insight to why and how moderns strokes are produced that I haven't found in other coaches. It's always debatable, but your reasoning isn't too logical. He indeed could coach a pro, I'm sure about that.
yeh, like what could he explain more on top of this? Actually there are many variations of every part of the stroke, but if one can understand what he explains, then all of that should not be difficult to figure out everything else.
I don't understand why this guy doesn't have 10M followers.
Thanks God you exist @FeelTennisInstruction, without you, I would have lost all hope in my tennis initial career. I am 14 years old, and ten months ago I fell in a great depression. A year ago, I was taking away my passion, tennis, for many personal reasons, nevertheless, it was all in my head. Throughout experience, I have seen that tennis is a mental game, but it is also conformed of "your own will". I tried to find answers, which, without knowing it, I found them in my coach, in myself, in my game, but if I hadn't seen this same exact video, I wouldn't have had understood what was I doing wrong. For anyone, a video of how to manipulate your insignificant wrist, would mean nothing, but for me it means everything.
Thank you! 🎾🎾☺️☺️👍🏽
dang monster forehand?
We admire greatly the time and effort dedicated to publishing the videos! They are awesome! You explain in detail the subtle differences between a pro and an amateur and how to correct our mistakes! Thank you, Thomas!
Nikola Lalev j
best forehand lesson I've seen in 40 years
Thank you for that great clarification. So that's why players who drop their racket on the edge, tend to have a bigger loop in their backswing ? to compensate that lack of power ?
Yes, very likely. The Federer drop technique creates more lag, or in other words, you can imagine it similar to "slapping" the ball more. This "slap" of the ball hits the ball really hard but again it's harder to control. The "edge" players tend to "guide" the ball more so they achieve a bit less racket head speed but have more control.
Dear coach , this closed- face racked take back motion was pioneered by THE great IVAN lendel ... IVAN English accent was Exactly like yours , too ...are you his country mate ?
As a recreational player I‘ve never seen a better explanation of the modern forehand than this!!!!
You’re an excellent teacher, thank you very much Thomas, I appreciate your channel!
This coach gives good tennis tips, but I have a complaint. He talks too much, he repeats the same concept a lot and it is not necessary. It is boring.
It is because you cannot cast pearls before swine
Thank you for your tips and video appreciated, some learnings i would embrace in my game thanks a lot 👍👍👏👏
I ran into a lot of students who get bored once you try to explain them details like this, all they care about is hitting the ball and running. The amount of small details in tennis is staggering yet a lot of casual players dont have enough patience and will to go through that.
True, but there's always one or two that are teachable. Cheers!!!
The ATP FH backswing vs the WTA's is, IMO, is mainly a consequence of the speed of their relative games. The speed of the men's game forces a more compact backswing and so they need to generate both power and spin with less "runway" so to speak. The women's game isn't as fast so you can get away with a more loopy backswing. But some women do use the ATP style forehand like Justine Henin; and she used it to great success. Regarding the ATP style, I believe both arm and wrist are completely relaxed and so the "lag" happens naturally as well as the wrist starting to extend forward as you hit through the ball and apply topspin. As a result, when everything is "loose" the effectiveness of the swing becomes sensitive to the racquet's balance point, which is the axis in which the racquet will rotate around, given it's attached basically at the wrist. This brings me to another interesting point about racquets - a head-light racquet will reinforce this "lag" technique more than a head-heavy one. Try wielding a hammer normally and recreate lag vs holding it by the heavy end.
I agree with you about the head light racket's amenability to a stroke with lag. The balance point of the racket is a very good point.
correct, and women don't release the wrist till after contact of the ball either. another example of why women shouldn't get paid the same as men because their game is behind the men's by over a decade.
Excellent points!
Are you referring to drag as air resistance? If so, I don't have an opinion on that. The trick is to find the right balance point so when you're wrist and arm is completely relaxed, the racquet's contact point is in front and you have directional control. In technical terms, this is referred to as Mgr/I which is somewhat dependent on the length of your arm in a double-pendulum model of the forehand.
Don´t agree with the terms WTA FH and ATP FH. With this Del Potro would have a WTA FH, and his forehand is a monster.
At 11:03 FTI finds a flaw with Fed's forehand in that it has to be timed perfectly or Fed loses power. Somebody call Fed, he should know this.
I only watch n learn from feel tennis because he's the Best.
Hey Thomas, do you offer lessons? I'm looking for a tennis vacation you seem to be an execellent trsiner to work with.
I was thinking the same thing! Where are you and do you do lessons??
I practiced this " solid wrist drill " today with amazing results . I admit like many beginners or relatively new tennis players my forehand has not been an offensive weapon. However, I made sure to combine a solid " Unit turn " . And, making sure to step forward and reach out with a solid wrist . Moving from low to high with a short back swing and a loose wrist that lags behind .
Which acts like a sling shot at contact. I was dumb founded. It was so cool. I can't wait to practice it again and then try it out in doubles league soon. Thomas you are my favorite video Tennis Coach. Keep on Rocking .
The best explanation of the forehand I've ever heard! Great job! I'll immediately look through your other videos!
Playing today for the first time in over ten years... Im going to try and bring this to the court today. Wish me luck! Great Video
At 11:50 you're preparing the racket flat horizontally from front to back and you don't use your left hand to bring the racket back. It's not Federer gesture that's why it feels unconfortable, your right wirst is tense. Federer and Halep are moving the racket back in an upward path and with the help of the left hand, the right wirst is lose before dropping the racket.
I think the additionnal power of Federer technique comes from the myotatic reflex of the wirst activated by the sudden back flexion of the wirst, which is not activated in Halep preparation.
Thank you this ia a great video
I ve been searchin for this explanation for a long time
What a helpful video! Thanks!
Wow, awesome explanation, Tomaz. An excellent description of the variations of the lag and snap forehand. The typical WTA player also swings around from behind their back where the typical ATP player is keeping the swing more to the side of the body. So, your approach is still very "modern" in that you advocate keeping the swing to the side, even if the racquet drop is more on edge. Thanks for your video!
+Shawn McDermott That's right, I also keep the swing to the side as I still get the arm-to-body lag it's just that I suggest a more calm wrist throughout the stroke.
very good analysis with the wrist mechanism
I've been trying to figure out why my forehand sometimes goes to the fence and other times into the net, and my swing feels the same. This explains it perfectly. I need to swing more like a girl ;)
I would really like to see how the stable wrist concept works on the (single handed) backend. That's where I have most of my consistency problems
Stay tuned, backhand videos are coming in a few months, right now I am in a forehand "mode". ;)
EXCELLENT stuff as always... I too would love to see this type of analysis on the various subtle differences / pro's and con's of the various approaches to swing path, grip and wrist lag / stable wrist of the one handed backhand... pro vs club player. Again, many thanks, really love your style of instruction.
What is important to increase racquet lag when hitting is to already have racquet lag during the backswing. That's what is hard to time.
Thanks Tomas this video is absolutely brilliant. I was really struggling to understand what the correct wrist position was during the drop. It first took me a long time to figure there is a drop for the forehand. Then "pat the dog', "lag and snap", "leading with the edge" are nice explanations for these concepts. However, this video summaries beautifully what to use for which type of player. Great analogy on the F1 car. Secretly I'd still want to start learning to drive on a go-kart and jump to the F1 car ...
Unbelievable video!!! Just from what was taught, I have to breakdown Everything!!!! Uggghhh!!! Thanks for the insights.
02:58 at contact point u want to have a STABLE WRIST (wrist is into a fully extended locked position)
- you do not want to intentionally lay back the wrist before the swing.... it gets automatically into extension when u swing ... because it is loose it flips into the locked position.
-at contact point u want the stable wrist! Note for me: for me personally ,not having the fully relaxed & fully extended wrist causes the face of the racket to open up (ball goes up&out
-by dropping the racket on the side, u enter into the stable wrist position much earlier than dropping it face down. This gives more control since ur racket's face is positioned for contact with the ball so early in the swing.
That's actually an amazing technique to train how to have a tight grip but a lose wrist and teach how the wrist should be loose.
One of the best instructions I’ve seen with the lag on the forehand. Well done!
This is why there are so many talented european players....detailed, thorough understanding of the mechanics. Phenomenal instructive video
14:38 this is a very nice comparison, thanks!
Holy shit this was helpful. Recently I’ve gotten a wrist overuse injury, and I’m not getting as much power. This really cleared things up. So excited to try this on court!
This guy knows what he is talking about. Excellent !
Thank you! fixed my forehand within 10 seconds.
There best video I have ever seen to explain forehand drop techniques. Pls keep making such exceptional videos. Thank you very much!
Amazing, a great tennis coach. very helpfull. Many thanks
Thanks for posting this video. I'm at the point of my game where I was starting to wonder about a loose wrist vs. a forced "windshield wiper" motion. This answered my questions and I will start working on this.
I actually do the Federer stroke naturally without knowing it was his because i wanted a whipping action which is necessary for these modern super light rackets. After watching your other videos, I thought I was doing something wrong and tried that Halep stroke but its confining and it does have less power. I may go back since this video confirms that I was not wrong and my control is good with it. Thanks for the info.
Tomaz amazing video one of your best so far.Quick question- if you are were to develop a 8 yr old player which of the two forehand techniques would you teach.Racket drop on edge or lag like federer.And why ? Thanks and keep up the amazing great work.
Hi PS, I believe that no one ever taught Federer or Dimitrov or Berdych or any other player to close their racket face when dropping the racket. They simply developed that "technique" through massive amount of repetition and being able to relax their arm and wrist so much before accelerating forward.
The racket face down is nothing else than complete relaxation of the arm and the wrist before acceleration. This relaxation can happen only when the player has hit million tennis balls and has impeccable timing and surely some natural talent.
Does that answer your question? ;)
Interesting! I always thought that Dimitrov became "Baby Fed" because he deliberately copied RF's technique.
Feel Tennis Instruction Thanks Tomaz good to know this.You are the only one talking about technique with 'feel' 👍.Makes sense
i absolutely agree! Great video and explanation.
one of the best videos comparing the ATP modern forehand to the standard forehand. Great job explaining the pitfalls for recreational players who wanna hit a Roger Federer forehand
Great video (and accent) gonna practice this now. Couldn't figure out why my hand, arm and wrist hurt after I hit balls!!!!
Hi Tomas, I believe what you said is correct. In fact, Federer in his prime (2004-2009) didn't use much racquet lag, the racquet was not as closed as it is now, his racquet lag was more like Halep's now. I think the reason is the courts used to be faster so he needed control and didn't need much power like right now when the courts got slower. You can clearly see it in this video: ruclips.net/video/m_yWePjInF8/видео.html . His forehand looked a lot different.
TemplarKG sorry buddy but either I missed something or you did but you're wrong about federer. He's always been credited for his racket head speed and this lag technique, he essentially created the modern forehand. He just has exceptional timing as most pros do. Watch more analysis and you'll see his lag even from the video you've referenced
how about you go watch his old forehand in slow motion?
did it you re wrong
did u realize his racquet leg was not as extreme as today?
TemplarKG lol. It's hardly changed over his entire career, your interpretation of how extreme I think is a personal taste. Not sure where you derived that conclusion pal.
I congratulate you Tomas, you added a great video so we can decipher the code. According to me, this video is a great video for all tennis fans. You just added the video. I've been searching for such a video for days. Myth busted I think.Thank you so much.
This is really the best explanation of wrist lagging. There are lots of videos talking about wrist lagging, none of them can show it happens naturally with loose wrist. Tried this on the court, felt so much better with forehand. Keep the good work.
Thanks ! Finally understand why I miss so many forehand
Gosh! Thr way u show how to "produce" thr wrist lag is just perfect! My students gonna thank u! Best wishes from Brazil!
The Best tennis instruction channel in my opinion. Thanks for the good work
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
The very so important basic technique !!
Ill be passing the speeding limit by over 10x and will have thousands of tickets
this is NOT explanation what Federer do with his forehand.... things ARE totaly different and more complex........ but video is ok
Yes. Very clear. Great explanation. Thanks.
It’s such a pleasure watching these videos, nuanced stuff laid bare for you
Thanks a lot for this really insightful video. I have been trying to improve my forehand power and accuracy for some time now. Keen to go on court and try it out!
such a great lesson! thanks for explaining it. it clears out my confusion!
I picked tennis up as an old man and been struggling for a while now. This is the first time ive had this explained and completely different from hitting a baseball which i have done all my life. I have a match tonight and ill try it, though i am sure it will take some getting used to, which i could hit against the wall first. just wanted to say thanks, this already feels like one of the best tennis fundamentals ive seen. I'll be back after awhile to report on how it works in reality
Thank you - extremely comprehensive lesson!!!
If you want to easily get powerful forhand. Try practice shadowswings with old racket that has 500g dumbell weight pinned to middle of racket head. Try shadowswinging it like you would swing a whip that way you gonna feel like you have prolonged arm not a racket in the future. Practice 20 swings forehand 20 swings backhand 2 series before tenis practice. You gonna thank me later :)
Thank you for sharing it helps me a lot because I am a beginner to learned this game.
Very Much Magnificent instruction Tomaz ..Thank You Greatly!
wow! thanks! i'm a weekend warrior and its true.. its hard to time the ball when using the 2nd one.. really need a lot of practice as I tend to hit the ball with the racket's frame a lot.
Dear Mr. Fernando Landino,
I'm Sangyun Jung in korea.
Can I use thses federer and halep video what you introduced in your explaination ?
I am making tennis guide book to sell in korea.
Your kindly comparations is very clear to distinguish drop the racquet.
I really appreciate it if you answer kindly.
Clear, succinct and professional. Awesome! Thanks
Absolutely top-notch excellent content for tennis aficionados.
I am thinking about sexual defamation against Google, CoEP WebTeam, n Gosabi, or make it public in Indian Express and charge significant compensation fine.. your future actions will force me
big shortcoming of your video is that you only talk about the advantage in terms of power. You mention nothing about the spin. A ''pat the dog '' technique offers much more spin. Perfect example, women on WTA hit very flat shots without much topspin.
Hi Tomaz, my tennis coach, insist that i shouldn't prepare using the head up and the down (big swing like most of the pros do), but prepare inmediatly down, wich is hard for me to get used to... do you think is importan to have a 'small swing' raher than a 'natural' big swing? am playing constantly since 1 year app.
great video!, showed to all my tennis pals around!!
Great! You explained so clearly what I've always wanted to know! Thanks so much!!
Sometimes we recreational players think we’re pros. We copy pro level forehand techniques not realizing they do this for a living. They practice many hours a day for 10 years. I’d stick to Tomaz’s recommendation from now on.
Great job. This is likely too much for beginning to intermediate levels - more than what they would likely understand or need, but any serious rec up to pro levels could gain a better understanding of the stroke with this or should be able to figure out what they need to adapt to their own game. I have not checked a lot of other instr. videos here, but have been playing and studying the game since 1968, coached for almost 2 decades and have a good understanding of the game, and to me, this is very well done instruction with great slo-mo demos.
優れた動き程、自然美を感じる。
Perfect explanation around 8min mark in video that club players tend tighten up wrist when they should actually be be in a more relaxed state. Just watching Federer and djokovic in slow motion forehand that the “whipping action” can take place.
You are not using the correct terminology with the wrist moving, by saying the wrist stopped moving. The wrist is constantly moving throughout the swing(it's moving forward). I think what are saying is the wrist continues to flex?
Absolutely correct and this is probably reason that Kyrgios and Sock are not winning tournaments, ať crucjal moments even such excellent players mishit, women e.g. don't have strength to play next gen forehand neither most of us člun players
I think 'wrist lag' is due to flicking and accelerating with the wrist first before any large muscle. It should be in the same axis of your wrist you would use to wave at someone, it shouldn't be in the axis you would use to pin someone in an arm wrestle. It's not much different than throwing rocks across a pond or slinging a whip or something. Look at table tennis, the motion looks a bit more obvious, and it should feel more like you're throwing a pokercard instead of slinging a whip (because of the lack of weight in a table racket). Federer I think is the best example of how to do it naturally. It's about the same imo between Federer and a Table Tennis player, it's just you don't have an ATP forehand takeback in that sport. This entire concept is the part of a forehand that generates spin, and maybe a little bit more torque to send the ball without letting it fly up into the air. It can still fail though because I've hit some into the net, I guess it just takes a whole lot of practice to make it a reflex in a modern forehand and high\low hits complicate matters a little bit because it's hard to get the swing path right without opening or closing the racket head.
Around 11:40, is this why Federer shanks the ball quite a lot when he is not playing well?
Thank you for the video. I've been studying this difference in forehand style for a couple of years now. Some have called the edge style the WTA forehand and the other the ATP. I grew up using the edge style and now utilize the closed technique. Your the first person I've seen outline the control vs power in both techniques. The closed racquet forehand definitely creates racquet speed allowing you to take time away from your opponent.
Just perfect on point explained! Since I drop my racket on the edge my control of the forehand improved a lot! It‘s so a tiny detail but very crucial for me. Thx for that advise I never saw a video which has a focus on that
I like your mode to expleaine these tecniques. Very interesting, thank you.
Thanks. This explains a lot. You're extremely effective at teaching and delineating concepts
Good to me ! First time I hear about it! Thanks so much.
Amazing! And I like Jorhe Capustani as well!
The formula 1 car analogy is an exaggeration that doesn't fit the bill in the tennis forehand technique. Honestly it took me about 6 months to master the wrist lag technique . Doesn't need 4hours of practice for ten years .
My coach told me the same thing about the wrist drop/cock. It's very hard to comprehend that it's not an intentional movement but one that occurs because of mere centrifugal force. I'm still working on it. That's good you point to not tense up but keep the wrist stable.
Thank you! Really good video, finally a really good coach that is up to date with the pros.
Hey super lesson! There are so much peaple who do Not understand this easy way to generate Power. When i had my first expereance whith this stroke I never wanted to loos ist again. Top thanks
The ladies mostly create a huge backswing also. To generate power( though with some that is almost detrimental as the racket arm becomes somewhat disconected from thier kenetic chain being counter productive. The guys tend to keep the racket out to thier playing side and have strings down so utilising more thier chain and raining in the power with vicious spin.
the bedst explanation of the different ways to hit with more or les power.The conclusion from you are the halep model is better unless you train like a pro and have the footweark to hit in front nearly all the time. You can ofcourse hit with the halep model to get more power if step into the cort.Thanks for the explanation Olaf Coach Copenhagen Denmark
I wonder if you're over thinking it a bit. Notice that the ball comes to Halep up around her waist while Federer is bending to get a much lower ball. She can't let the racket face close or she'll miss a ball that high and he has to drop down and let it close or he'll do the same.