Just discovered the very interesting life and story of Joe Orton completely by chance. I was looking something up on Wikipedia, fell down a rabbit hole of page jumping until I stumbled upon Joe's biography. Surprised you don't hear more about him. But I've heard of his plays before which I suppose speaks volumes on what a great writer he was. Anyway, thanks for the video 👏
Thank you for watching and commenting,I found him a fascinating character when I started this channel that was the first video I had in mind that and Joe Meek,what made Joe Orton more appealing they was happy to drift doing writing what he loved.His fame was high and fast and it was over. Thanks again
Halliwell was an important contributor to the work, as he encouraged the writing, acting as confidant, mentor and editor, so his legacy is more than just the lover and the murderer. Its no coincidence that their ashes were mixed together by Joe's relatives after the cremation.
They had spent the entire months of May and June 1967 in Morocco permanently off their faces on hash. This clearly had a psychologically detrimental effect on Halliwell exacerbated by the fact that he sensed that he was losing Joe (and a particularly hateful comment directed at Ken by Peter Willes in mid July appears to have tipped him over the edge). Their close friend, Sheila Ballantine, said it was plain that by late July Ken was not just depressed but desperately ill and Joe (always completely self-absorbed) simply didn’t take the seriousness of the situation on board.
I have been fascinated by the Orton /Halliwell story for decades. I can't remember now how I got to know about him it was so long ago. As the clip shows they were imprisoned for defacing library books in 1962. What they did was obviously wrong but getting six months each was harsh and as Joe Orton said "it was because we were queer" The prison sentence changed everything in their relationship. It was the first time in well over a decade that they had been separated it was the making of Joe Orton literally. He was up until that point John Orton within a year of his release from prison, he had an agent who asked him to change his name as it sounded too much like John Osborne. And so John became Joe and he became very successful. Prison destroyed Kenneth Halliwell and in that process he had lost "John" who was replaced by Joe, now rich and successful and whose new life threatened the life he had with John. The thing about their relationship was that it was Kenneth who educated John (Joe) it was he who taught him about English literature and language but the pupil overtook the Master and KH was jealous of Joe's success and jealous of the people who Joe now spent most of his time with. Joe kept a type written diary which Kenneth had access to. Recorded within it was the story of Joe's success, all the rich and influential people he was mixing with and every sexual encounter he had. Kenneth Halliwell loved John Orton but hated Joe Orton and the night before he was due to be admitted to a mental hospital bludgeoned Joe to death with 9 hammer blows to the head. Joe was sleeping and never knew a thing about it. His suicide note said "if you read the diary all will be explained - especially the latter part. Except it wasn't. The diary finishes on August 1st - it end mid-sentence it is obvious that there were more pages to follow but they cannot be found anywhere. It could be argued that Joe was a coward in not facing Kenneth about ending their relationship and leaving his diary for Kenneth to read in the hope that he would get the message instead of being told. We will never know what was in the diary for the final 9 days but was Joe writing about his plans to leave KH? Was it this that tipped him over the edge?
I find it absolutely fascinating when I started the channel it was one of the main stories I wanted to cover, even though joe had grown away from Kenneth, In your opinion if joe was not murdered do you think he would ever leave Kenneth behind????
@@CuriosSpiritual Yes, I think that was the plan, or if not a plan, certainly a desire. I think he would have always looked after Kenneth, as Kenneth had always looked after him, he would never have abandoned him, but he had outgrown KH, their bedsit on Noel Road and that claustrophobic life they had shared for so many years. This is what I think KH wanted back, his life with John Orton not Joe or who Joe became that life was too threatening for him - I think he could see he was losing him, and KH had lost both his parents in odd but tragic circumstances. It's only my opinion, but this is what Joe did not consider - he seems to have seriously miscalculated this aspect. Leaving the diaries were KH could see them & hoping perhaps that he would read them so that he'd take the hint to avoid an unpleasant conversation and not considering KH's "loss issues" was his undoing. I have always wanted to know what the diary entries were for that last week and if these somehow outlined what Joe wanted his future life to be like.
I've just read the diaries. The public toilets sex bits are at times almost surreal but at the same time very entertaining reading. He was a true genius as a writer and observer of interesting things from everyday life.
I never knew anything about him until in 1991 age 16, Channel 4 put on a range of films under the banner Beyond Ealing, films like Two way Stretch,Billy Liar and Entertaining Mr Sloane, It was so dark and funny at the same time. I was hooked,then Gary Oldmans perfomance In Prick Up Your Ears I had to find out more I read anything I could find.I don't think he would ever have left Kenneth Halliwell. such a sad loss but what a story.thanks for commenting
I would say this case is still murky . Its likely Halliwell killed Orton primarily because the death was brutal but it is still a mystery as to what happened prior. The only thing im aware of is that Halliwell might have been resentful certainly unhappy. Everything ive heard of the man is that he was not liked by others, made people uncomfortable . Strikes me as a red flag.
Speaking as a gay man myself, Joe Orton was very much a product of the era he grew up in and the way it treated gay men. They were pushed into a shadow world and persecuted, scarred by shame and anger. So much of Orton's work can be seen as being motivated by that anger and resentment. His massive promiscuity was very much an extension of that.
I agree, but I don't think Joe Orton felt any shame or embarrassment about his sexuality at all. I think KH did, I think he was deeply effected by shame and stigma. Joe seemed to relish it. It amazes me that he never got caught cottaging the amount of times he did it. Especially in the 50s when there was a serious clamp down by the police on homosexual behaviour in public.
Has been noted, it has changed about a year ago but can’t change older videos.Thank you for commenting and watching Joe Orton is definitely a person my channel will revisit again.
Well it didn't hurt the property price that's for sure. Noel Road now seems to be very fashionable. The bedsit they shared was last sold in 2020 for over half a million quid.
@joejohnson6763 its about feeling I beleive. There is always an eerie feeling in shit places where shit things happened. And a lack of that in places where horrible things didn't happen.
Excellent little film. I'm going through your collection. Well done mate.
Thank you kindly
New to the wonderful world of Orton; just ordered a paperback copy of his diaries. Thx for posting this! x
He surely is a wonder,after watching a documentary in the 80’s I was hooked thanks for commenting and watching
Reading the Orton Diaries now, and this is a great counterpart. Thank you!
Very kind of you,thank you so much for your comment it means a lot.
K August Yes. Always haunting.
Just discovered the very interesting life and story of Joe Orton completely by chance. I was looking something up on Wikipedia, fell down a rabbit hole of page jumping until I stumbled upon Joe's biography. Surprised you don't hear more about him. But I've heard of his plays before which I suppose speaks volumes on what a great writer he was. Anyway, thanks for the video 👏
Thank you for watching and commenting,I found him a fascinating character when I started this channel that was the first video I had in mind that and Joe Meek,what made Joe Orton more appealing they was happy to drift doing writing what he loved.His fame was high and fast and it was over. Thanks again
@@CuriosSpiritual much agreed, I'm planning on watching Prick Up Your Ears on Amazon this weekend so I can learn more about his life.
@@stephenmcclellan7320 fab film you will love it really funny also
Halliwell was an important contributor to the work, as he encouraged the writing, acting as confidant, mentor and editor, so his legacy is more than just the lover and the murderer. Its no coincidence that their ashes were mixed together by Joe's relatives after the cremation.
hes a fascinating character when I first started the channel I wanted to do a video on Joe Orton and Joe Meek they were my second and third video
@@CuriosSpiritual Worth noting that they collaborated on some joint works, the Boy Hairdresser (published posthumously) for example.
They had spent the entire months of May and June 1967 in Morocco permanently off their faces on hash. This clearly had a psychologically detrimental effect on Halliwell exacerbated by the fact that he sensed that he was losing Joe (and a particularly hateful comment directed at Ken by Peter Willes in mid July appears to have tipped him over the edge). Their close friend, Sheila Ballantine, said it was plain that by late July Ken was not just depressed but desperately ill and Joe (always completely self-absorbed) simply didn’t take the seriousness of the situation on board.
I have been fascinated by the Orton /Halliwell story for decades. I can't remember now how I got to know about him it was so long ago. As the clip shows they were imprisoned for defacing library books in 1962. What they did was obviously wrong but getting six months each was harsh and as Joe Orton said "it was because we were queer" The prison sentence changed everything in their relationship. It was the first time in well over a decade that they had been separated it was the making of Joe Orton literally. He was up until that point John Orton within a year of his release from prison, he had an agent who asked him to change his name as it sounded too much like John Osborne. And so John became Joe and he became very successful. Prison destroyed Kenneth Halliwell and in that process he had lost "John" who was replaced by Joe, now rich and successful and whose new life threatened the life he had with John. The thing about their relationship was that it was Kenneth who educated John (Joe) it was he who taught him about English literature and language but the pupil overtook the Master and KH was jealous of Joe's success and jealous of the people who Joe now spent most of his time with. Joe kept a type written diary which Kenneth had access to. Recorded within it was the story of Joe's success, all the rich and influential people he was mixing with and every sexual encounter he had. Kenneth Halliwell loved John Orton but hated Joe Orton and the night before he was due to be admitted to a mental hospital bludgeoned Joe to death with 9 hammer blows to the head. Joe was sleeping and never knew a thing about it. His suicide note said "if you read the diary all will be explained - especially the latter part. Except it wasn't. The diary finishes on August 1st - it end mid-sentence it is obvious that there were more pages to follow but they cannot be found anywhere. It could be argued that Joe was a coward in not facing Kenneth about ending their relationship and leaving his diary for Kenneth to read in the hope that he would get the message instead of being told. We will never know what was in the diary for the final 9 days but was Joe writing about his plans to leave KH? Was it this that tipped him over the edge?
I find it absolutely fascinating when I started the channel it was one of the main stories I wanted to cover, even though joe had grown away from Kenneth, In your opinion if joe was not murdered do you think he would ever leave Kenneth behind????
@@CuriosSpiritual Yes, I think that was the plan, or if not a plan, certainly a desire. I think he would have always looked after Kenneth, as Kenneth had always looked after him, he would never have abandoned him, but he had outgrown KH, their bedsit on Noel Road and that claustrophobic life they had shared for so many years. This is what I think KH wanted back, his life with John Orton not Joe or who Joe became that life was too threatening for him - I think he could see he was losing him, and KH had lost both his parents in odd but tragic circumstances. It's only my opinion, but this is what Joe did not consider - he seems to have seriously miscalculated this aspect. Leaving the diaries were KH could see them & hoping perhaps that he would read them so that he'd take the hint to avoid an unpleasant conversation and not considering KH's "loss issues" was his undoing. I have always wanted to know what the diary entries were for that last week and if these somehow outlined what Joe wanted his future life to be like.
I must thank you for showing me a fascinating rabbit-hole. I want to find some of his work now to read.
I recommend the film Prick Up Your Ears, fascinating film with the underrated Gary Oldman playing Joe
@@CuriosSpiritual I watched it after your video. I liked Alfred Molina in it too.
I've just read the diaries. The public toilets sex bits are at times almost surreal but at the same time very entertaining reading. He was a true genius as a writer and observer of interesting things from everyday life.
I never knew anything about him until in 1991 age 16, Channel 4 put on a range of films under the banner Beyond Ealing, films like Two way Stretch,Billy Liar and Entertaining Mr Sloane, It was so dark and funny at the same time. I was hooked,then Gary Oldmans perfomance In Prick Up Your Ears I had to find out more I read anything I could find.I don't think he would ever have left Kenneth Halliwell. such a sad loss but what a story.thanks for commenting
I would say this case is still murky .
Its likely Halliwell killed Orton primarily because the death was brutal but it is still a mystery as to what happened prior.
The only thing im aware of is that Halliwell might have been resentful certainly unhappy. Everything ive heard of the man is that he was not liked by others, made people uncomfortable .
Strikes me as a red flag.
Speaking as a gay man myself, Joe Orton was very much a product of the era he grew up in and the way it treated gay men. They were pushed into a shadow world and persecuted, scarred by shame and anger. So much of Orton's work can be seen as being motivated by that anger and resentment. His massive promiscuity was very much an extension of that.
I agree, but I don't think Joe Orton felt any shame or embarrassment about his sexuality at all. I think KH did, I think he was deeply effected by shame and stigma. Joe seemed to relish it. It amazes me that he never got caught cottaging the amount of times he did it. Especially in the 50s when there was a serious clamp down by the police on homosexual behaviour in public.
Please remove dreadful background noise ruins the video, hard to hear commentary.
Has been noted, it has changed about a year ago but can’t change older videos.Thank you for commenting and watching Joe Orton is definitely a person my channel will revisit again.
Thank you.
Thanks for watching and commenting your very kind
3:38 Actual photograph of the death scene?
No it was a recreation in the movie 🎥 Prick up your ears.Gary Oldman plays Joe Orton
Sure Gary oldman played him cheers for the vid anyways fella 🇬🇧👍
Your right he did,great film and great actor
I hear Joe Orton went to doctors about things
I wonder did it hurt what Joe was doing at Noel road who lives there today
Well it didn't hurt the property price that's for sure. Noel Road now seems to be very fashionable. The bedsit they shared was last sold in 2020 for over half a million quid.
Imagine living in the flat where orton died. I would never live in a place where murder has been comitted. Gay sex acts too.
House is worth 3million!
@@JesusChristisfake so? I still wouldn't live in the house. Sell it? Sure.
How would you ever know? You only know about this coz the victim was famous.
@joejohnson6763 its about feeling I beleive. There is always an eerie feeling in shit places where shit things happened.
And a lack of that in places where horrible things didn't happen.