I've flown the same model aircraft, we almost never lock the tail wheel when landing gives more control authority with diff. Breaking. We had a similar issue when the left brake went out due to a leak. we were lucky not to damage the aircraft by running off the runway. We had about 7000 ft one and it was wide, From the looks of the landing, the tail wheel not being locked had just about nothing to do with what happened. It looks like a break issue similar to the one we had, but opposite side.
1) The checklist shown did not come new with this plane in 1936. 2) Blanco’s statement that you have to have two good brakes AND a locked tailwheel is false. Obviously. We’ve landed both BE-18 and L12A hundreds of times with tailwheel unlocked but this is the first crash. 3) You guys would both understand this if either of you had ever flown either plane. 4) If the 3 inch tiny tailwheel had been locked it would NOT have kept it straight against the left impetus imparted by the sudden application of left brake. No way. 5) They call RUclipsrs “Influencers” I call the locked tailwheel an influencer. It may have a small and insignificant influence on path but would it alone have made it go straight against that weight and momentum? No way. Kind of like the insignificant influence this video may have on a small group of inexperienced individuals and drone pilots. 6) The correct action would have been hard left brake to intentional ground loop but even that may have been more disastrous as we may have spun into a hangar. 7) The “absolute most” influence that a tiny tailwheel could have had (if locked) would have been a slightly less departure angle, but it still would have left the runway and hit a few feet further north, which was an above ground fuel tank. 8) The tree was hidden in bushes. We never saw a tree. It looked like it was just going to go left at low speed into a group of bushes. The dead centering of the true was just one in a billion. 9) My lack of remembering which position is locked or unlocked illustrates how little we use it or care about it. 10) Hundreds of other GA tailwheel planes don’t even have a tailwheel lock, but that doesn’t cause every one to crash every time! 11) Please tell us your PIC experience level in BE-18 or L-12A 12) The Electra is not totaled.
"There is no right, there is no wrong. There are only the lessons we learn and teach from observed consequences." Many amendments to checklists, comes from lessons learned by costly experience. An ideal checklist would be originally written such, that it never needed an amendment or re-write, but I would rather have, and follow, an updated checklist, than one lacking lessons learned.
You were creating RUclips content inside the cockpit prior to takeoff. You really shouldn’t be lecturing pilots about how great of a youtuber they are or aren’t.
Stan showing his character and Dan showing his. I agree the tailwheel released probably didn’t matter with the lack of right brake. The tailwheel has a locking mechanism for a reason and it was missed - potentially with consequences. It’s not a problem missing a checklist item until it is. You follow it to prevent potential problems. The whole focus on filming for safety could have led to distractions - even causing missing issues with the brakes prior to departure. When I’m flying my goal is to focus 100% on flying during critical phases of flight. My definition of critical is from the time I start my preflight until cruise and starts again when descending through shut down. It only takes a second for an inconsequential distraction to have a consequences.
I wrongly commented on this crash a while back. I thought that the PIC was slow getting to the right brake to stop the fast drift to the left. It turns out that he did apply the right brake but the right brake had a loose B nut so the brake was probably flat. He should have tested his brakes on final as all Tailwheel pilots should. I’m certain that he would have not attempted a landing on this narrow, tree lined grass RWY with a flat brake. In any case it looks as though the tailwheel lock was missed along with the flat brake. I know better then to comment on these things until the investigation is complete. My bad. I’ll follow the link to the recovery fund.
While I think locking the tailwheel makes the beginning of the takeoff roll more stable, I don't think a locked tailwheel would have prevented the off-runway excursion due to the right brake failure. There is enough speed and inertia that the plane would still have moved to the left, and the locked tailwheel would simply skid on the grass, as it is too small to have fought the movement to the left. Full right rudder did no good by this time as there was insufficient airspeed for the rudders to have been effective. Equal brake pressure is paramount to guiding this plane on rollout once the tail is down. They were doomed unless they could have kept rudder authority and had enough runway to not use the brakes at all.
I think they did have 'enough runway to not use the brakes at all'. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn on the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
I wanted to emphasize that the tailwheel on the L12A is not steerable. It free casters when it is not locked. Here is the link to my Twin & Turbine article for those who are interested: www.twinandturbine.com/distractions-in-an-electra/
Tailwheel lock, filming distractions, etc may be true... but when you have a bad brake on one side you're gonna dent the airplane. If lucky and you notice it early with very light braking differential thrust *might* be able to get you lined up again. Single engine you're hosed. Best case you kill the engines and roll as far as you can before slamming on the working brake. For a TW you ground loop at minimum possible speed. For tricycle brake harder or softer to turn more or less to avoid obstacles as best you can. Remember: POST MAINTENANCE FLIGHTS ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! Maintenance mistakes have killed more than a few pilots. Work the brakes hard during taxi. Maybe ask for a loop around the parking area. Make your run up long and as near full power as you can. If your brakes are going to fail or oil pressure is going to drop try to trigger it on the ground. Then stay in the pattern for an hour, or at least stay very close to an airport.
After watching the available video several times… it would appear to me that there was distraction in the cockpit. Though a Locked tail wheel may not have prevented the runway excursion.
Dan Gryder has been a champion of G/A safety & cockpit discipline for years. That being said, lately he’s been a little askew for whatever reason. People make mistakes, nobody is without sin in the aviation world. I do think though, that providing “ content “ is dangerously getting out of hand. It’s a distraction that needs to be toned down, or more accidents & fatalities will occur. Safety is Paramount …
He is a narcissist. Watch the vid where he pulls a notice off the hager door and tells the manager you just destroyed my door! Manager laughs in his face. Dan we're not laughing, just not watching anymore. And then there the horses that are going to die unless Dan gets to fly them in a DC3. And the PPO's against him. That's not an aeronautical term, it's a stalking term. Someone can get this deleted, fine, it's a damn shame that a great channel turned into poo.....
You’re never gonna convince me to use a tailwheel lock, but I’ve never flown a twin that’s a tailwheel. The only thing I wonder is if the brakes were checked in the pattern. I always check my brakes on the downwind, I know that checkmate checklist has check brakes on every one I’ve seen. Most POH lists a brake check in the normal procedures section. If the brakes were bad on the landing, they would have been bad on the downwind or base also. If you discover it in the air, you can divert to another airport with a longer runway.
Have you flown a Pitts Special S1S. There's nothing better than the Haigh locking tailwheel versus steerable tailwheel. Try them both an see. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical.
@@pittss2c601 no, Starduster is about as close to a Pitts as I’ve come….. lots of time in a Cub, my neighbor has a Taylorcraft, my first tailwheel was a luscombe. No experience in a twin with a tailwheel, not many of those around.
The fitting on the right braided brake line was found to only be finger tight. The tailwheel lock control was on but the wheel was not locked. And flying a classic irreplaceable airplane in and out of a small grass runway with trees and structures close to the runway does not make sense.
@@iTotallyJuust I've also flown the SNJ (T6) many times. The locking tailwheel works great on them. My old Pitts S1S had a Haigh locking tailwheel. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
@@pittss2c601 I'm in favor of using it no doubt. They should have had their tail wheel locked in this video. However it's not critical to doing a successful safe landing in this aircraft. The brake failure in one of the mains is ultimately what got them.
Great production/presentation here. Glad to have discovered and now subscribed to this channel. **Keep your good thoughts going for Dan Gryder, he is still in a wheelchair and cannot put any weight on one of his legs that had breaks/crush injuries. **
I don't think you have done an analysis on Dale "Snort" Snodgrass' ill-fated flight in his SIAI-Marchetti SM.1019. I'd like to see one even though that accident was some while ago. It was tragic considering he was the highest time Tomcat pilot whose easily corrected mistake in his Part 91 aircraft would have probably saved his life.
IMO the tail wheel did nothing on that grass, the control authority would override the tail wheel. Also the cameras had no distraction effect because they were off during the landing due to heat, the left seat pilot specifically mentioned how hot the cockpit was. GoPro cameras are infamous for overheating issues and Dan already had the video that he wanted. If I were to blame anything for this accident it would be heat stress and the brake issue. I know from my experiences that heat kicks the crap out of me.
I love Blanco but as much as he jumps on Dan for speculating he did the same about the tail wheel. Turned out the cause was the right brake not having any pressure. Left brake started them into the trees which the tail wheel at that speed would make no difference. This was from the owner of the plane, not Dan.
Irrelevant The crash may have happened with one failed brake and a unlocked or locked tail wheel but it could also have happened with two functioning brakes and an unlocked tail wheel. They were distracted and didn't perform the required pre-landing check list item. If it was or wasn't the direct cause is moot with regard to this fact. IMO ALLEGEDLY
I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
In nearly all planes with a tailwheel lock, it is a pin that drops into a hole in a plate. Simply putting the control in the LOCKED position is not sufficient since there is not an independent indicator that the pin is actually in position. What always need to be done is to verify that the tailwheel is truly locked by doing a little turn either left or right. If the plane continues to roll forward, the tailwheel must be locked. Only by actually verifying the lock is in place can you be certain that the condition matches the control. Remember also that the control handle connects to the locking device via cable. Can the cable break or can there be some other failure between the front and back of the plane? You bet. Always verify the results of using a control. Dan should know this but both he and Glenn got complacent.
My old Pitts Special S1S had the Haigh locking tailwheel. I used a T-handle cable lock to lock it in place before take-off from the cockpit. It also was spring loaded to the locked position. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical.
Not knocking your video but you’re conclusions make little sense. First, tailwheel locks were added to prevent ground looping. I just purchased my old Beech 18 after the accident and locked the tail wheel as I was taxing down the taxiway at another airport. It was paved and within 15 seconds I was off the taxiway. It is impossible to keep it locked and stay straight. It was never meant for that, it was meant to stop people from ground looping. I didn’t lock the wheel on the Lockheed because it took away my ability to keep the airplane straight and I wasn’t worried about ground looping. Your next error is the apparent conclusion that this had anything to do with the accident. The right brake failed, which was the reason the airplane went off the runway. If you were honest about your reporting, you’d have mentioned that these airplanes have freewheeling tailwheels. They have no controls attached to them and the brakes are your only method of keeping them on the runway after the tail comes down. Our runway is extremely narrow and short. When I land there I want as much control as I can get. Maybe if the tailwheel had been locked things would have turned out different, maybe we would have hit the fuel tank instead of the tree. Its the great thing about hindsight. You can surmise whatever you like and no one can really argue for or against it. Anyway, entertaining video.
Thanks for the comment Glenn. It didn’t occur to me that anyone would have thought that the tailwheel was steerable. Not mentioning it wasn’t an honesty thing. I’ll add a note in the description and a comment to the video that clarifies it for anyone who’s confused about that. You’re absolutely correct that had it been locked, there is a possibility that it could have been worse, but only because a locked tail wheel would have affected your trajectory to some degree. I believe the primary cause of the crash was the brake (the failure of which I covered). I focused on the distraction element (which I believe was present) in the broad interest of flight safety. I still believe that had you known directional stability was going to be compromised on landing, you’d prefer the tail wheel locked. I am very grateful that the outcome wasn’t worse. Hoping for a quick recovery. And I came to love that Electra Junior of yours. Hope you’re able to get it repaired. Blue skies buddy.
"Flying for money," that tells you everything right there. An unlocked tail wheel on such an airplane at landing speed will just spin a bit, move left and right for a bit until alignement forces put the little wheel aligned. Now if it was a locked deflected tail wheel it could be, but not the case. You can clearly see the tail wheel spining freely. Do you guys ever saw a tail wheel up close? there's no real grip there, just directional drag. The idea of unlocked tail wheel is so that the wheel can spin freely to auto-align. I guess flight simulator don't simulate aligning forces on the tail wheels, so you can't know what you talk about really. Or do you own a heavy tail wheel aircraft too? A tail wheel not necesarly needs to be locked, in fact some aircrafts jut have the tail wheel free. You can always have directional control with brakes, rudder-propwash, diferential thrust. No real need for a steerable tail wheel. And if you have it you have to use it along the previous mentioned actions. "KIlling the electra"?? all the contrary, they were flying it. So the electra was pretty much alive. Besides I'm pretty sure it will be restored.
Have you flown a Pitts Special S1S. There's nothing better than the Haigh locking tailwheel versus steerable tailwheel. Try them both an see. Try landing a Pitts with it unlocked. I have landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical. 'Directional drag' is the point of having a lockable tailwheel.
@@pittss2c601 Lockable don't necesary means steerable. I don't know if the Beechcraft 18 tail wheel is steerable. Probably not. that's why it's not mandatory to have it locked or un-locked. Is my understanding that for example the DC3 can be operated with the tail wheel either locked or unlocked. In some model you lock the tail wheel but it woun't lock until the wheel self align. What you have in the Spitts is an steerable wheel that can be locked so at high speed you don't have the steering of the wheel enabled and you can use rudder with out the wheel. When you are slow enough that you don't have rudder authority you would unlock the steerable tail wheel and carry on. It's not the same scenario as with the beech. Besides they are landing on a grass strip. how much grip could that tiny wheel generate on a grass strip with a havy aircraft. Your Spitts is light and probably operated mostly on asphalt runway. My personal experience on tail wheel is limited, only flown a couple of hours in a pa 11 in a grass stip and I don't even remember even going over the tail wheel mechanism. I think it has springs that when the speed is too high the same grip generated by the wheel would prevent it from turning.
@@lonewolfgabo What's a Spitts? You have no idea what you are talking about. The locking tailwheels are like caster wheels. They turn 360 degrees freely like a shopping cart until you lock them straight. You cannot steer them however you can somewhat slide them on grass using the brakes. Almost all of my time in my Pitts was on a private 'grass' runway. You can lock the tailwheel down hard with its super high control authority. You only taxi with the tailwheel locked in a Pitts. When you unlock the tailwheel the plane quickly spins around without a lot of brake applied.
@@pittss2c601 Granted, I don't know much about tail wheels or aerobatic biplanes. I don't even speak english But i do know about true pilots not picking on other pilots just to make a video. The occupants of the aircraft could have died but here we are caring about an aircraft that was being flown by the owner. What ever was the cause of the accident.
I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was and wish him a speedy recovery, but I don't mind saying I've never been a fan of Gryder's videos. He's always struck me as a bit of a self-righteous blowhard. And evidence from the crash -- and his post-crash comments -- do nothing to dissuade me from that notion.
@@arctain1 I know what you mean -- Juan can get a little "judgey" at times -- but I actually like him. Seems more down-to-earth. More interested in making helpful videos that call out BS but gives credit where it's due as well. Not as self-promotional as Dan. But I hear you -- he can get a bit too pedantic for my liking as well.
Seems like you are the one sensationalizing for attention with the headline in the thumbnail. Both left and right seaters being RUclips contributors had nothing to do with the accident. The cameras were off during the landing. And if the tailwheel lock was an OPTIONAL feature of the original plane, that logically can only mean it was NOT necessary. What caused this accident was the dumba$$ who failed to properly tighten the right brake line hose/fitting. And who also failed to do a proper brake bleed and leak test under serious brake pedal application on the ground. And then several applications of brakes during taxi, ended up draining all the fluid from that master/slave. But you missed the most important lesson from this mishap - EVERY tail dragger pilot should do a hard brake test as part of the before landing checklist and if you do not have serious brake pedal back pressure, do not attempt to land on a short field. Go around and seek the longest paved runway you can find nearby and land there and let the plane come to a stop without brakes.
You could have an unlocked tail wheel, locked tail wheel, or no tail wheel and this accident would've happened all the same... Brake failure, narrow grass strip, no speed for rudder authority... Only feeling a soft/no brake pedal just before landing could've changed the outcome... That's a more pertinent question, it was definitely checked before takeoff, but was it checked before landing? That would be a much more important checklist item on this aircraft than this stupid tail wheel argument, especially on a grass strip!🤦♂️ Love Dan or hate him this is a strawman argument/situation regarding the actual cause or prevention of this accident... On a hard runway with a max weight, and maximum rearward CG it might've helped, but not very much with a complete singke side brake failure. 🤦♂️
I disagree. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical. I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn on the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
Playing with your new iPad out, with your checklists on it works, but Dan forgot to add lock the rear wheel before you landing. Obviously going through your pre landing check list works when it doesn't this happens. This isn't Dans first mishap. Complete pilot and co pilot error 100%.
Gryder has done a lot of good for GA safety, but over time for me he has lost some credibility. You are also contributing to GA safety and keeping your credibility intact. He seems to feed off of drama. Hope he and the others recover and move on from this.
Send me the contact for your two editors: FLYING magazine and Twin and Turbine. Your title and knowledge is flawed and lacking. If you have this little understanding on this simple concept, makes me wonder what else you’re writing about that you have no clue about.
I haven’t written for Flying mag for several years. If you have specific objections I’m more than happy to correct anything that I got wrong factually. I’m not surprised that we have a difference of opinion about whether the tailwheel lock contributed. I conveyed your position in the video. Just trying to facilitate flight safety here (something that I know you are passionate about). If the example is enough to save someone else, I think it’s worth it.
@@flyingformoney777 The problem with this video is that it is a narrative. Like so much of the "media" today, you presented the information in a biased manner. Does Dan embellish and jump the gun? Yes, that is a given. The way you portray this information is in a biased and demeaning format. The disdain for Dan is apparent in your voice. Like so many here have said, you can't offer an objective opinion unless you have first-hand experience with this aircraft and its operation. All you are doing here is belittling Dan and Glenn.
@@Grybeard I don’t have any disdain for either Dan or Glenn. You might have heard something different from what I felt. As for not being able to be objective without direct experience, we have a program called LOSA in the airlines. Pilots observe other pilots flying the line. The program encourages those LOSA pilots to observe fleets that they are not rated on. The reason for this is that it gives fresh eyes to behavior that has become accepted within a specific community. I have a great deal of experience with managing distractions and compliance with manufacturer guidance (and when it is appropriate to deviate from that guidance). That was the context of my video.
I am very fortunate to have a steerable tailwheel in my aircraft. However pushing the rudder pedals too far will cause it to unlock. It will caster until aligned with the rudder pedals forcing the use of brakes for steering. Stan the majority of your videos basically boil down to human factors. And, that's a problem with older aircraft, the human factors design was not as good.
The tail wheel had zero to do with this. Brake failure will cause this every time. I never locked tail wheels when equipped. Completely inconsequential.
In defense of Dan Gryder- I would make an educated guess that he has A LOT MORE taildragger flight time than you, or Juan Brown does. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. HHe just sold his DC-3 after owning it and flying it all over America, for about 25 years. Never crashed it. Before you blame Dan or the owner of the Lockheed, I'd like to know if you have the same tailwheel aircraft flight experience that he does. The accident was caused by the right side brake failure, and whomever signed off on that work! THAT'S ALL.
@@danwillis1341 I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
@@pittss2c601 I would agree with you IF they were aware of a brake issue, but once they initiated the brakes to start slowing their fate was sealed. Once the brakes were applied and the right one failed the plane lurched left and a locked tailwheel would have made no difference. You know what they say, hindsight is 20/20! Thanks for your explanation.
@@danwillis1341 I disagree. Don't touch the brakes. A locking tailwheel has more power than you understand. Have you ever experienced a flat tire while in the air? I have. You must expect that your tires may be flat upon landing, or your brakes have failed, or something will run or drive onto the runway, etc. A great pilot adapts quickly when emergencies arise. They happen more often than people know.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Your editing style is its own. I really enjoy how you share information.
I appreciate that!
I've flown the same model aircraft, we almost never lock the tail wheel when landing gives more control authority with diff. Breaking. We had a similar issue when the left brake went out due to a leak. we were lucky not to damage the aircraft by running off the runway. We had about 7000 ft one and it was wide, From the looks of the landing, the tail wheel not being locked had just about nothing to do with what happened. It looks like a break issue similar to the one we had, but opposite side.
1) The checklist shown did not come new with this plane in 1936.
2) Blanco’s statement that you have to have two good brakes AND a locked tailwheel is false.
Obviously. We’ve landed both BE-18 and L12A hundreds of times with tailwheel unlocked but this is the first crash.
3) You guys would both understand this if either of you had ever flown either plane.
4) If the 3 inch tiny tailwheel had been locked it would NOT have kept it straight against the left impetus imparted by the sudden application of left brake. No way.
5) They call RUclipsrs “Influencers” I call the locked tailwheel an influencer. It may have a small and insignificant influence on path but would it alone have made it go straight against that weight and momentum? No way. Kind of like the insignificant influence this video may have on a small group of inexperienced individuals and drone pilots.
6) The correct action would have been hard left brake to intentional ground loop but even that may have been more disastrous as we may have spun into a hangar.
7) The “absolute most” influence that a tiny tailwheel could have had (if locked) would have been a slightly less departure angle, but it still would have left the runway and hit a few feet further north, which was an above ground fuel tank.
8) The tree was hidden in bushes. We never saw a tree. It looked like it was just going to go left at low speed into a group of bushes. The dead centering of the true was just one in a billion.
9) My lack of remembering which position is locked or unlocked illustrates how little we use it or care about it.
10) Hundreds of other GA tailwheel planes don’t even have a tailwheel lock, but that doesn’t cause every one to crash every time!
11) Please tell us your PIC experience level in BE-18 or L-12A
12) The Electra is not totaled.
The flight should have never happened.
"There is no right, there is no wrong. There are only the lessons we learn and teach from observed consequences."
Many amendments to checklists, comes from lessons learned by costly experience.
An ideal checklist would be originally written such, that it never needed an amendment or re-write, but I would rather
have, and follow, an updated checklist, than one lacking lessons learned.
You were creating RUclips content inside the cockpit prior to takeoff. You really shouldn’t be lecturing pilots about how great of a youtuber they are or aren’t.
Thanks for the notes Dan. I really am grateful that you are ok and recovering.
Stan showing his character and Dan showing his. I agree the tailwheel released probably didn’t matter with the lack of right brake. The tailwheel has a locking mechanism for a reason and it was missed - potentially with consequences. It’s not a problem missing a checklist item until it is. You follow it to prevent potential problems. The whole focus on filming for safety could have led to distractions - even causing missing issues with the brakes prior to departure. When I’m flying my goal is to focus 100% on flying during critical phases of flight. My definition of critical is from the time I start my preflight until cruise and starts again when descending through shut down. It only takes a second for an inconsequential distraction to have a consequences.
Shoulder harnesses would have prevented some of the bodily injuries as well.
Love your channel, thanks and good luck
Thanks so much!
I wrongly commented on this crash a while back. I thought that the PIC was slow getting to the right brake to stop the fast drift to the left. It turns out that he did apply the right brake but the right brake had a loose B nut so the brake was probably flat. He should have tested his brakes on final as all Tailwheel pilots should. I’m certain that he would have not attempted a landing on this narrow, tree lined grass RWY with a flat brake. In any case it looks as though the tailwheel lock was missed along with the flat brake. I know better then to comment on these things until the investigation is complete. My bad. I’ll follow the link to the recovery fund.
Love your videos! Keep them coming. I got excited when I saw this one
Thanks! Will do!
While I think locking the tailwheel makes the beginning of the takeoff roll more stable, I don't think a locked tailwheel would have prevented the off-runway excursion due to the right brake failure. There is enough speed and inertia that the plane would still have moved to the left, and the locked tailwheel would simply skid on the grass, as it is too small to have fought the movement to the left. Full right rudder did no good by this time as there was insufficient airspeed for the rudders to have been effective. Equal brake pressure is paramount to guiding this plane on rollout once the tail is down. They were doomed unless they could have kept rudder authority and had enough runway to not use the brakes at all.
I think they did have 'enough runway to not use the brakes at all'. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn on the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
I wanted to emphasize that the tailwheel on the L12A is not steerable. It free casters when it is not locked.
Here is the link to my Twin & Turbine article for those who are interested: www.twinandturbine.com/distractions-in-an-electra/
Tailwheel lock, filming distractions, etc may be true... but when you have a bad brake on one side you're gonna dent the airplane. If lucky and you notice it early with very light braking differential thrust *might* be able to get you lined up again. Single engine you're hosed.
Best case you kill the engines and roll as far as you can before slamming on the working brake. For a TW you ground loop at minimum possible speed. For tricycle brake harder or softer to turn more or less to avoid obstacles as best you can.
Remember: POST MAINTENANCE FLIGHTS ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! Maintenance mistakes have killed more than a few pilots. Work the brakes hard during taxi. Maybe ask for a loop around the parking area. Make your run up long and as near full power as you can. If your brakes are going to fail or oil pressure is going to drop try to trigger it on the ground. Then stay in the pattern for an hour, or at least stay very close to an airport.
Boy you’re cranking the videos out love it! When we going flying?
Great video. I learned about flying. My number one take away was the importance of check list discipline.
WOW you crashed Another plane .
After watching the available video several times… it would appear to me that there was distraction in the cockpit.
Though a Locked tail wheel may not have prevented the runway excursion.
Oof. Airplane manufacturers typically don't add a system (like a wheel lock) if it's not needed.
Dan Gryder has been a champion of G/A safety & cockpit discipline for years. That being said, lately he’s been a little askew for whatever reason. People make mistakes, nobody is without sin in the aviation world. I do think though, that providing “ content “ is dangerously getting out of hand. It’s a distraction that needs to be toned down, or more accidents & fatalities will occur. Safety is Paramount …
He is a narcissist. Watch the vid where he pulls a notice off the hager door and tells the manager you just destroyed my door! Manager laughs in his face. Dan we're not laughing, just not watching anymore. And then there the horses that are going to die unless Dan gets to fly them in a DC3. And the PPO's against him. That's not an aeronautical term, it's a stalking term. Someone can get this deleted, fine, it's a damn shame that a great channel turned into poo.....
I called it from the beginning, thought was a problem with the right brake. Juan Browne doesn’t know anything about tail wheel flying in a heavy twin.
You’re never gonna convince me to use a tailwheel lock, but I’ve never flown a twin that’s a tailwheel. The only thing I wonder is if the brakes were checked in the pattern. I always check my brakes on the downwind, I know that checkmate checklist has check brakes on every one I’ve seen. Most POH lists a brake check in the normal procedures section. If the brakes were bad on the landing, they would have been bad on the downwind or base also. If you discover it in the air, you can divert to another airport with a longer runway.
Have you flown a Pitts Special S1S. There's nothing better than the Haigh locking tailwheel versus steerable tailwheel. Try them both an see. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical.
@@pittss2c601 no, Starduster is about as close to a Pitts as I’ve come….. lots of time in a Cub, my neighbor has a Taylorcraft, my first tailwheel was a luscombe. No experience in a twin with a tailwheel, not many of those around.
@@Ifly1976 I purchased at Starduster II right out of college. Lots of fun. I also owned a 150hp Swick T-Craft. Great flying, aerobatic airplane.
Sounds like their brakes failed. And the tail wheel lock is important but not critical. Ask anyone who's flown a beech 18 or DC3.
The fitting on the right braided brake line was found to only be finger tight. The tailwheel lock control was on but the wheel was not locked.
And flying a classic irreplaceable airplane in and out of a small grass runway with trees and structures close to the runway does not make sense.
I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical.
@@pittss2c601 not what I've heard from many high time pilots. Maybe I misunderstood them.
@@iTotallyJuust I've also flown the SNJ (T6) many times. The locking tailwheel works great on them. My old Pitts S1S had a Haigh locking tailwheel. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
@@pittss2c601 I'm in favor of using it no doubt. They should have had their tail wheel locked in this video. However it's not critical to doing a successful safe landing in this aircraft. The brake failure in one of the mains is ultimately what got them.
Great production/presentation here. Glad to have discovered and now subscribed to this channel. **Keep your good thoughts going for Dan Gryder, he is still in a wheelchair and cannot put any weight on one of his legs that had breaks/crush injuries. **
I don't think you have done an analysis on Dale "Snort" Snodgrass' ill-fated flight in his SIAI-Marchetti SM.1019. I'd like to see one even though that accident was some while ago. It was tragic considering he was the highest time Tomcat pilot whose easily corrected mistake in his Part 91 aircraft would have probably saved his life.
IMO the tail wheel did nothing on that grass, the control authority would override the tail wheel. Also the cameras had no distraction effect because they were off during the landing due to heat, the left seat pilot specifically mentioned how hot the cockpit was. GoPro cameras are infamous for overheating issues and Dan already had the video that he wanted. If I were to blame anything for this accident it would be heat stress and the brake issue. I know from my experiences that heat kicks the crap out of me.
I love Blanco but as much as he jumps on Dan for speculating he did the same about the tail wheel. Turned out the cause was the right brake not having any pressure. Left brake started them into the trees which the tail wheel at that speed would make no difference. This was from the owner of the plane, not Dan.
Irrelevant
The crash may have happened with one failed brake and a unlocked or locked tail wheel but it could also have happened with two functioning brakes and an unlocked tail wheel.
They were distracted and didn't perform the required pre-landing check list item. If it was or wasn't the direct cause is moot with regard to this fact.
IMO ALLEGEDLY
I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
In nearly all planes with a tailwheel lock, it is a pin that drops into a hole in a plate. Simply putting the control in the LOCKED position is not sufficient since there is not an independent indicator that the pin is actually in position. What always need to be done is to verify that the tailwheel is truly locked by doing a little turn either left or right. If the plane continues to roll forward, the tailwheel must be locked. Only by actually verifying the lock is in place can you be certain that the condition matches the control. Remember also that the control handle connects to the locking device via cable. Can the cable break or can there be some other failure between the front and back of the plane? You bet. Always verify the results of using a control. Dan should know this but both he and Glenn got complacent.
My old Pitts Special S1S had the Haigh locking tailwheel. I used a T-handle cable lock to lock it in place before take-off from the cockpit. It also was spring loaded to the locked position. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical.
Can the Plane be salvaged ??
why is a Beech 18 shown?
Because I’m not going to design a Lockheed 12A for MSFS for a RUclips video.
Dan had 45 minutes awaiting extraction. Not saying he did or even could have but there was time to think about things
Hands down, Stan, you have the best aviation content on YT. This comment will age well...
BTW, let me know if you ever need an experienced broker!
Thanks a bunch! Will keep you in mind…
Not knocking your video but you’re conclusions make little sense. First, tailwheel locks were added to prevent ground looping. I just purchased my old Beech 18 after the accident and locked the tail wheel as I was taxing down the taxiway at another airport. It was paved and within 15 seconds I was off the taxiway. It is impossible to keep it locked and stay straight. It was never meant for that, it was meant to stop people from ground looping. I didn’t lock the wheel on the Lockheed because it took away my ability to keep the airplane straight and I wasn’t worried about ground looping.
Your next error is the apparent conclusion that this had anything to do with the accident. The right brake failed, which was the reason the airplane went off the runway. If you were honest about your reporting, you’d have mentioned that these airplanes have freewheeling tailwheels. They have no controls attached to them and the brakes are your only method of keeping them on the runway after the tail comes down. Our runway is extremely narrow and short. When I land there I want as much control as I can get. Maybe if the tailwheel had been locked things would have turned out different, maybe we would have hit the fuel tank instead of the tree. Its the great thing about hindsight. You can surmise whatever you like and no one can really argue for or against it.
Anyway, entertaining video.
Thanks for the comment Glenn. It didn’t occur to me that anyone would have thought that the tailwheel was steerable. Not mentioning it wasn’t an honesty thing. I’ll add a note in the description and a comment to the video that clarifies it for anyone who’s confused about that. You’re absolutely correct that had it been locked, there is a possibility that it could have been worse, but only because a locked tail wheel would have affected your trajectory to some degree.
I believe the primary cause of the crash was the brake (the failure of which I covered). I focused on the distraction element (which I believe was present) in the broad interest of flight safety. I still believe that had you known directional stability was going to be compromised on landing, you’d prefer the tail wheel locked.
I am very grateful that the outcome wasn’t worse. Hoping for a quick recovery. And I came to love that Electra Junior of yours. Hope you’re able to get it repaired. Blue skies buddy.
"Flying for money," that tells you everything right there. An unlocked tail wheel on such an airplane at landing speed will just spin a bit, move left and right for a bit until alignement forces put the little wheel aligned. Now if it was a locked deflected tail wheel it could be, but not the case. You can clearly see the tail wheel spining freely. Do you guys ever saw a tail wheel up close? there's no real grip there, just directional drag. The idea of unlocked tail wheel is so that the wheel can spin freely to auto-align. I guess flight simulator don't simulate aligning forces on the tail wheels, so you can't know what you talk about really. Or do you own a heavy tail wheel aircraft too?
A tail wheel not necesarly needs to be locked, in fact some aircrafts jut have the tail wheel free. You can always have directional control with brakes, rudder-propwash, diferential thrust. No real need for a steerable tail wheel. And if you have it you have to use it along the previous mentioned actions.
"KIlling the electra"?? all the contrary, they were flying it. So the electra was pretty much alive. Besides I'm pretty sure it will be restored.
Have you flown a Pitts Special S1S. There's nothing better than the Haigh locking tailwheel versus steerable tailwheel. Try them both an see. Try landing a Pitts with it unlocked. I have landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical. 'Directional drag' is the point of having a lockable tailwheel.
@@pittss2c601 Lockable don't necesary means steerable. I don't know if the Beechcraft 18 tail wheel is steerable. Probably not. that's why it's not mandatory to have it locked or un-locked. Is my understanding that for example the DC3 can be operated with the tail wheel either locked or unlocked. In some model you lock the tail wheel but it woun't lock until the wheel self align. What you have in the Spitts is an steerable wheel that can be locked so at high speed you don't have the steering of the wheel enabled and you can use rudder with out the wheel. When you are slow enough that you don't have rudder authority you would unlock the steerable tail wheel and carry on. It's not the same scenario as with the beech. Besides they are landing on a grass strip. how much grip could that tiny wheel generate on a grass strip with a havy aircraft. Your Spitts is light and probably operated mostly on asphalt runway.
My personal experience on tail wheel is limited, only flown a couple of hours in a pa 11 in a grass stip and I don't even remember even going over the tail wheel mechanism. I think it has springs that when the speed is too high the same grip generated by the wheel would prevent it from turning.
@@lonewolfgabo What's a Spitts? You have no idea what you are talking about. The locking tailwheels are like caster wheels. They turn 360 degrees freely like a shopping cart until you lock them straight. You cannot steer them however you can somewhat slide them on grass using the brakes. Almost all of my time in my Pitts was on a private 'grass' runway. You can lock the tailwheel down hard with its super high control authority. You only taxi with the tailwheel locked in a Pitts. When you unlock the tailwheel the plane quickly spins around without a lot of brake applied.
@@pittss2c601 Granted, I don't know much about tail wheels or aerobatic biplanes. I don't even speak english But i do know about true pilots not picking on other pilots just to make a video. The occupants of the aircraft could have died but here we are caring about an aircraft that was being flown by the owner. What ever was the cause of the accident.
To the point that Dan wasn't even the PIC in the flight.
Most have no T - wheel lock - I have never seen one myself -- So what , huh ? Brakes & power
Plus rudder control is key .
I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was and wish him a speedy recovery, but I don't mind saying I've never been a fan of Gryder's videos. He's always struck me as a bit of a self-righteous blowhard. And evidence from the crash -- and his post-crash comments -- do nothing to dissuade me from that notion.
Agreed - and I think the same of a guy named Juan, as well…
@@arctain1 I know what you mean -- Juan can get a little "judgey" at times -- but I actually like him. Seems more down-to-earth. More interested in making helpful videos that call out BS but gives credit where it's due as well. Not as self-promotional as Dan. But I hear you -- he can get a bit too pedantic for my liking as well.
Seems like you are the one sensationalizing for attention with the headline in the thumbnail. Both left and right seaters being RUclips contributors had nothing to do with the accident. The cameras were off during the landing. And if the tailwheel lock was an OPTIONAL feature of the original plane, that logically can only mean it was NOT necessary. What caused this accident was the dumba$$ who failed to properly tighten the right brake line hose/fitting. And who also failed to do a proper brake bleed and leak test under serious brake pedal application on the ground. And then several applications of brakes during taxi, ended up draining all the fluid from that master/slave. But you missed the most important lesson from this mishap - EVERY tail dragger pilot should do a hard brake test as part of the before landing checklist and if you do not have serious brake pedal back pressure, do not attempt to land on a short field. Go around and seek the longest paved runway you can find nearby and land there and let the plane come to a stop without brakes.
You could have an unlocked tail wheel, locked tail wheel, or no tail wheel and this accident would've happened all the same... Brake failure, narrow grass strip, no speed for rudder authority... Only feeling a soft/no brake pedal just before landing could've changed the outcome... That's a more pertinent question, it was definitely checked before takeoff, but was it checked before landing? That would be a much more important checklist item on this aircraft than this stupid tail wheel argument, especially on a grass strip!🤦♂️ Love Dan or hate him this is a strawman argument/situation regarding the actual cause or prevention of this accident... On a hard runway with a max weight, and maximum rearward CG it might've helped, but not very much with a complete singke side brake failure. 🤦♂️
I disagree. I have flown a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel. The locking option is critical. I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn on the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
Playing with your new iPad out, with your checklists on it works, but Dan forgot to add lock the rear wheel before you landing. Obviously going through your pre landing check list works when it doesn't this happens. This isn't Dans first mishap. Complete pilot and co pilot error 100%.
Your conclusion is incorrect, the right hand brake failed.... complete maintenance issue, not complete pilot error.
Gryder has done a lot of good for GA safety, but over time for me he has lost some credibility. You are also contributing to GA safety and keeping your credibility intact. He seems to feed off of drama. Hope he and the others recover and move on from this.
He has had several accidents…
And tried to kill a GA officer with a DC3 prop. Dude a pos
@@Midnight-gaming200 no he didn’t… that is BS
@@thatguy7085 do the research it happened I watched it happen.
@@thatguy7085 look it up I watched it happen
Send me the contact for your two editors: FLYING magazine and Twin and Turbine. Your title and knowledge is flawed and lacking. If you have this little understanding on this simple concept, makes me wonder what else you’re writing about that you have no clue about.
I haven’t written for Flying mag for several years. If you have specific objections I’m more than happy to correct anything that I got wrong factually. I’m not surprised that we have a difference of opinion about whether the tailwheel lock contributed. I conveyed your position in the video. Just trying to facilitate flight safety here (something that I know you are passionate about). If the example is enough to save someone else, I think it’s worth it.
@@flyingformoney777 it's never Dan's fault... There is always.
A conspiracy..... I can't help but notice a pattern.
@@flyingformoney777 The problem with this video is that it is a narrative. Like so much of the "media" today, you presented the information in a biased manner. Does Dan embellish and jump the gun? Yes, that is a given. The way you portray this information is in a biased and demeaning format. The disdain for Dan is apparent in your voice. Like so many here have said, you can't offer an objective opinion unless you have first-hand experience with this aircraft and its operation. All you are doing here is belittling Dan and Glenn.
@@Grybeard I don’t have any disdain for either Dan or Glenn. You might have heard something different from what I felt. As for not being able to be objective without direct experience, we have a program called LOSA in the airlines. Pilots observe other pilots flying the line. The program encourages those LOSA pilots to observe fleets that they are not rated on. The reason for this is that it gives fresh eyes to behavior that has become accepted within a specific community. I have a great deal of experience with managing distractions and compliance with manufacturer guidance (and when it is appropriate to deviate from that guidance). That was the context of my video.
It's Dan, disaster seems to follow him around.
OK- was it a Beech 18 or a Lockheed 12? They are saying Lockheed and showing a Beech. =PC=
Dan seemed like he was generating some bad energy with his uncaharitable takes. That was the impression i got from him.
I am very fortunate to have a steerable tailwheel in my aircraft. However pushing the rudder pedals too far will cause it to unlock. It will caster until aligned with the rudder pedals forcing the use of brakes for steering. Stan the majority of your videos basically boil down to human factors. And, that's a problem with older aircraft, the human factors design was not as good.
No breaks, too fast, field to short
Don’t let Dan get in your plane. 😎
I did not care for the lock on b 18 but I used it anyway.😊
NOOOO
Ya know thats a Beech Craft in the animation
No Lockheed Electra Junior available in MS Flight Sim
@@flyingformoney777 THats a Beech 18
Gryder started out good but then he veered away from aviation and into guitar playing!!!
The tail wheel had zero to do with this. Brake failure will cause this every time. I never locked tail wheels when equipped. Completely inconsequential.
Yankin’ left ain’t the tail wheel --
In defense of Dan Gryder- I would make an educated guess that he has A LOT MORE taildragger flight time than you, or Juan Brown does. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. HHe just sold his DC-3 after owning it and flying it all over America, for about 25 years. Never crashed it.
Before you blame Dan or the owner of the Lockheed, I'd like to know if you have the same tailwheel aircraft flight experience that he does. The accident was caused by the right side brake failure, and whomever signed off on that work! THAT'S ALL.
CRASH Gryder at it again!! 😅
Dan Gryder knows his stuff. I'm glad the cost of flying outpaced my ability to afford to fly.
Keep Dan to the fire lmao
The tailwheel had nothing to do with the crash! The failed brakes had everything to do with the crash!!
Not true
100% True
Explain how it's not true
@@danwillis1341 I think they did have enough runway to not use the brakes at all with the tailwheel locked straight ahead. Lock the tailwheel and let the grass drag it to a stop. Use all the runway especially when its hot outside. I never touched the brakes on my old Pitts S1S with its Haigh locking tailwheel on my 2400' grass runway. Just let it roll to a stop. The brakes are for turning around, making tight turns, and mag check. I've landed a Beech 18 with a locking tailwheel on pavement and I didn't touch the brakes until the end of the 3800' runway to turn onto the taxiway. It rolled perfectly straight with very little rudder correction. Worse-case, use all the runway with the tailwheel locked, then hit the good left brake at the end of the runway and ground loop it if necessary with the tailwheel unlocked.
@@pittss2c601 I would agree with you IF they were aware of a brake issue, but once they initiated the brakes to start slowing their fate was sealed. Once the brakes were applied and the right one failed the plane lurched left and a locked tailwheel would have made no difference. You know what they say, hindsight is 20/20! Thanks for your explanation.
@@danwillis1341 I disagree. Don't touch the brakes. A locking tailwheel has more power than you understand. Have you ever experienced a flat tire while in the air? I have. You must expect that your tires may be flat upon landing, or your brakes have failed, or something will run or drive onto the runway, etc. A great pilot adapts quickly when emergencies arise. They happen more often than people know.