What is the status of Liquid Metal Batteries today? Several years ago in a TED talk Prof Sadoway said these batteries should be hitting the market in 2019/2020 time frame. We are here, what's the current status?
@@dougspindler4947 yes, lithium ion can't discharge more than today 4 hours(6 in future) only can do 500(2000 in future) deep cycle or so. Ambri can economically discharge upto 4 to 24 hours and 10000 deepcycle . 4 hours system as peaker plant replacement and 24 hours discharge for utility.
Is there any market niche for Liquid metal batteries, I was thinking of large merchant shipping where weight is less of a factor in its use than land transport.
@@timothywatkins3011 The problem with liquid metal batteries is that need to be constantly charged and discharged to maintain the needed internal heat (keeping the metals liquid), as would happen in grid storage. Flow batteries are more suitable and can be containerized to integrate into shipping infrastructure. Compared with oil batteries, the energy density of batteries is two orders of magnitude below that of hydrocarbon liquid fuels. That will be hard to replace, even with smaller engines as the engine is small compared to the fuel tank. Other there are nuclear reactors on military ships and subs, if small modular nuclear reactors are proven safe they would be ideal.
@@timothywatkins3011 They have built their chemistry using room liquid metals, or metal alloys. Since their few of room temperature metal this gives them a limited chemistry for improvements. Its using gallium as its cathode. Gallium is quite an expensive transition metal due a low relative crust abundance (5ppm). The point of liquid metal batteries was to create a scalable chemistry based on cheap materials to solve the commodity bottleneck. It is particularly unsuited for shipping because the anode is not a safe chemistry. Nak, a combination of alkaline metals, is highly reactive. The industry had had safety concerns over lithium. www.wired.com/story/want-electric-ships-build-a-better-battery/
I heard about these molten metal energy storage a few years ago. Thrilled to hear this update! Their website gives a timeline for deployment within a few years! @t Thanks to Andrew C for that link. If this works it will really help intermittent renewables (ie wind and solar) to provide un-interrupted power -- and replace fossil fuels. Go Sadoway! Go Ambri!!
this is the most intriguing race I can think of, that I hope to see make the breakthrough in recent years. and a welcome respite from the current state of this country. was disappointed to hear the funding issues from the govt. were a reality but not surprised. still confident this will happen here.
I can't wait to power my home on something like this, the sooner the better. A small domestic unit for day to day use with solar panels, and a small wind turbine, is the future.
Wont it be brilliant to have such independence, and with no bills to pay, except the Draconian Council Tax, a tax upon a tax. I reckon you will be looking at something around the size of two washing machines put together, and weighing half a ton or so. There will also be high capacity Redox Flow batteries becoming available, where you buy the pump unit and electrolyte, and then a couple of IBC tanks to store it in.
about remark @32:30 about li-ion energy density is almost off by a factor of 2 for tesla batteries. ref: cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/bloombergnef-lithium-ion-battery-cell-densities-have-almost-tripled-since-2010/
It's around 250 Wh/kg for cells that are readily available. But you have to add the heavy cooling tech. But since these liquid batteries are for stationary storage, the weight difference isn't that deciding, even the Wh/L isn't really relevant if it's at least in the same ballpark.
Antimony deposites are located in west texas near the Mexican border. I am turning the info. Over to Texas minerals,and Usa Rare rarth.i hope it assays out 1 percent or more.plus silver lead and zinc.
@Barış Alkan this is not a big deal, because lead is already used in car batteries. We had a big environmental problem when we used lead as an fuel additive for cars, but today the lead is no longer added. When it comes to the batteries, they are closed systems, lead is not routinely comming out of these things, therefore lead would be safe in this application.
Fairly abundant and long life span before re-cycling... the Chinese actually bought many mines at roughly 25 mill$ apiece and then shuttered the facilities to keep control of supply. 'Locality? Not sure what that means... mines in Canada, U.s. and Mexico are available and current cost is >< around the price of Copper. With lifespan and recycling capacity it is a cheap alternative. I would expect a 4xs amount current to present supply just in opening old mines/closed... as even in China they closed mines to keep prices up.
The back to basic concepts idea is standard reductionist Sciencing, so the look at the Periodic Table of "dirt", can be looked at from the Spinfoam bubble-modes of Primes conglomeration connection of logarithmic e-Pi-i sync-duration numberness dominance that is the Observable Mathematical content of probabilities in self-defining potential possibilities, the Heirachy that includes the Electrochemical Series. Ie Temporal QM-TIMESPACE In-form-ation substantiation mapping. Break out the AI Chemistry Set. The most difficult thing to solve is "legacy languages", and jargon that has more to do with social momentum than real Sciencing. Eg the Equivalence of actual phenomena in various abstractions should Re-cognise the idea of Potential Differences in Height and Voltage to be aspects of QM wave-particle Entanglement in the proper Perspective Principle. Everything requires rethinking, and reiterating, all-ways, that is why Science.., and Undergraduates, taking rigourous hands-on practical experiments, Math-Phys-Chem and Geometry, (aspects of real-time QM logarithmic singularity positioning coordination), development of Intuitions, in re-orientation of Actual Intelligence study courses.
0:00 Intro
7:34 Donald Sadoway
The sane and sensible technical parts of the next educational stage of development, are so calm and peaceful.
Go Go Donald Sadoway !!!
What is the status of Liquid Metal Batteries today? Several years ago in a TED talk Prof Sadoway said these batteries should be hitting the market in 2019/2020 time frame. We are here, what's the current status?
2023
@@pinakdas6300 Is it still looking as promising as he was saying?
@@dougspindler4947 yes, lithium ion can't discharge more than today 4 hours(6 in future) only can do 500(2000 in future) deep cycle or so. Ambri can economically discharge upto 4 to 24 hours and 10000 deepcycle . 4 hours system as peaker plant replacement and 24 hours discharge for utility.
@@pinakdas6300 Any idea if the company is making any progress?
Any updates?
Amazing show
Is there any market niche for Liquid metal batteries, I was thinking of large merchant shipping where weight is less of a factor in its use than land transport.
In shipping volume becomes critical because battery storage competes with cargo.
@@sadface7457 doubtful as the weight of crude oil that would be removed from the equation never mind space and weight of engine .
@@timothywatkins3011 The problem with liquid metal batteries is that need to be constantly charged and discharged to maintain the needed internal heat (keeping the metals liquid), as would happen in grid storage. Flow batteries are more suitable and can be containerized to integrate into shipping infrastructure.
Compared with oil batteries, the energy density of batteries is two orders of magnitude below that of hydrocarbon liquid fuels. That will be hard to replace, even with smaller engines as the engine is small compared to the fuel tank.
Other there are nuclear reactors on military ships and subs, if small modular nuclear reactors are proven safe they would be ideal.
@@sadface7457 Newer designs of room temp liquid metal over comes this problem. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200706173442.htm
@@timothywatkins3011 They have built their chemistry using room liquid metals, or metal alloys. Since their few of room temperature metal this gives them a limited chemistry for improvements.
Its using gallium as its cathode. Gallium is quite an expensive transition metal due a low relative crust abundance (5ppm). The point of liquid metal batteries was to create a scalable chemistry based on cheap materials to solve the commodity bottleneck.
It is particularly unsuited for shipping because the anode is not a safe chemistry. Nak, a combination of alkaline metals, is highly reactive. The industry had had safety concerns over lithium. www.wired.com/story/want-electric-ships-build-a-better-battery/
I heard about these molten metal energy storage a few years ago. Thrilled to hear this update! Their website gives a timeline for deployment within a few years! @t Thanks to Andrew C for that link. If this works it will really help intermittent renewables (ie wind and solar) to provide un-interrupted power -- and replace fossil fuels. Go Sadoway! Go Ambri!!
this is the most intriguing race I can think of, that I hope to see make the breakthrough in recent years.
and a welcome respite from the current state of this country.
was disappointed to hear the funding issues from the govt. were a reality but not surprised.
still confident this will happen here.
I can't wait to power my home on something like this, the sooner the better. A small domestic unit for day to day use with solar panels, and a small wind turbine, is the future.
Wont it be brilliant to have such independence, and with no bills to pay, except the Draconian Council Tax, a tax upon a tax. I reckon you will be looking at something around the size of two washing machines put together, and weighing half a ton or so. There will also be high capacity Redox Flow batteries becoming available, where you buy the pump unit and electrolyte, and then a couple of IBC tanks to store it in.
about remark @32:30 about li-ion energy density is almost off by a factor of 2 for tesla batteries.
ref: cleantechnica.com/2020/02/19/bloombergnef-lithium-ion-battery-cell-densities-have-almost-tripled-since-2010/
It's around 250 Wh/kg for cells that are readily available. But you have to add the heavy cooling tech. But since these liquid batteries are for stationary storage, the weight difference isn't that deciding, even the Wh/L isn't really relevant if it's at least in the same ballpark.
Antimony deposites are located in west texas near the Mexican border. I am turning the info. Over to Texas minerals,and Usa Rare rarth.i hope it assays out 1 percent or more.plus silver lead and zinc.
the problem is, that antimony is not cheap, nor local nor abundant. i hope this battery can also be made with something different like lead
@Barış Alkan this is not a big deal, because lead is already used in car batteries. We had a big environmental problem when we used lead as an fuel additive for cars, but today the lead is no longer added. When it comes to the batteries, they are closed systems, lead is not routinely comming out of these things, therefore lead would be safe in this application.
Fairly abundant and long life span before re-cycling... the Chinese actually bought many mines at roughly 25 mill$ apiece and then shuttered the facilities to keep control of supply.
'Locality? Not sure what that means... mines in Canada, U.s. and Mexico are available and current cost is >< around the price of Copper. With lifespan and recycling capacity it is a cheap alternative.
I would expect a 4xs amount current to present supply just in opening old mines/closed... as even in China they closed mines to keep prices up.
Replace dilbit with liquid nuclear fuels, not more dilbit..
combine with lithium solve the cycling issue in stages
8:20 Didnt know the earth was flat
I think student athletes should be paid . Do you know how much money a bowl game brang in
The back to basic concepts idea is standard reductionist Sciencing, so the look at the Periodic Table of "dirt", can be looked at from the Spinfoam bubble-modes of Primes conglomeration connection of logarithmic e-Pi-i sync-duration numberness dominance that is the Observable Mathematical content of probabilities in self-defining potential possibilities, the Heirachy that includes the Electrochemical Series. Ie Temporal QM-TIMESPACE In-form-ation substantiation mapping.
Break out the AI Chemistry Set.
The most difficult thing to solve is "legacy languages", and jargon that has more to do with social momentum than real Sciencing.
Eg the Equivalence of actual phenomena in various abstractions should Re-cognise the idea of Potential Differences in Height and Voltage to be aspects of QM wave-particle Entanglement in the proper Perspective Principle.
Everything requires rethinking, and reiterating, all-ways, that is why Science.., and Undergraduates, taking rigourous hands-on practical experiments, Math-Phys-Chem and Geometry, (aspects of real-time QM logarithmic singularity positioning coordination), development of Intuitions, in re-orientation of Actual Intelligence study courses.