Super Saiyan Blue Theory: Water Tank Formula Explained and Debunked
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Is Super Saiyan Blue weak in Dragon Ball Super? How can Krillin stand up to Super Saiyan Blue? Is Android 17 stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku? Is Goku suppressing his ki? Does Super Saiyan Blue have better ki control? The Water Tank Formula is covered here.
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Shark Tank Theory
Now that might be a hard nut to Swallow. -Geekdom101 '17
lmfao I died when you said that
Lmao it is funny as fuck
The expression is "tough nut to crack" haha he makes it sound like sucking someone off. Wtf lol
Rofl!!!!!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
To be honest when I first saw Goku go blue against Krillin I thought he was just doing so in order for Krillin to see the types of opponents that he would have to face in the tournament.
So if krillin is stronger than ssj Goku then krillin > base goku. Goku nearly killed krillin with one punch in the beginning of super
Mythicaltruth he meant namek saga
Some Edgy Account No he didn’t, if he did that would make no sense. Why mention namek Goku if current ssj1 Goku is stronger than namek super saiyan Goku
I think really goku just wanted to make it seem that he was using his power but i think he suppressed himself below his base but it pushed Krillin and android 17 it makes them train harder
its just lazy writing ... its okay tho doesnt bother me too much
"Super Saiyan Gold, or whatever you want to call it.."
Super Saiyan. Just Super Saiyan...
@Geekdom101 I believe he used his Blue form against Krillin, because he wanted him to understand what he was up against, and maybe to see what his reaction to facing that level of fighter would be.
You get a cookie. :D
i agree
I swear the actual carchters come to this conclusion
@@alqu6375 I know it might be a year old but... Can I have one? \_(°^°)_/
Exactly. And that's backed up by the fact that Goku knew there would be opponents around the level of Blue in the form of Toppo and Jiren, so Goku wanted to see how Krillin would react if he ended up facing them, especially with the fact that they know Krillin sometimes freezes up and lets his fear take over.
I feel as though the only reason he's going blue during these fights is to intimidate his teamattes into seeing how strong the other warriors are gonna be. Krillin probably pissed his dogi when he felt the pressure
Jonathan Colson Same, though I have to disagree with Android 17 because he said he was holding back as well.
I completely agree I just meant for Krillin and maybe even Tien and Roshi. People substantially weaker then blue
Jonathan Colson i respect where your coming from and yes i think he did do it to intimidate krillin, but i honestly think tht 17 is stronger than ssj2 and ssj3 so goku has no other forms to go to. no i don't think 17 is ssb level HELL NO but i think he is stronger than ssj2 and ssj3
Jonathan Colson same thing I said
RebelFUGI I guess great prognosticators think alike ☺
Goku said to android 17 he “pushed” him to use blue, 17 has actually gotten quintillion’s of times more powerful (somehow) from the android saga
Now he could 1 shot cell
Androids have gohan potential ig
I guess it's now vegito ssb vs master roshi
Master roshi kills him in one hit
English God Then they should have called Roshi to beat Zamasu!
you make the fanbase look bad
English God that would be fun
English God
English God
people need to remember the tournament doesn't just test power. it tests strategy and intelligence too. Goku could one shot Krillin, 17 and 18 at full power but what would that accomplish? he's holding back because he doesn't need to test how strong they are. He's holding back to give them the chance to show some strategy and to test their ability as fighters
Krillin clearly is no where near blue, he feels the pressure from Goku and feels fear. Android 17 however seems to be near.
Dont agree with ya there.
Lord Ogle Pretty sure 17 didn't get scared because he just doesn't really care. Not because he's close in power. He's probably nowhere near close in power to blue.
In the fight with Hit during the Universe 6v7 arc, Goku himself says that he couldn't use Kaio-ken with Super Saiyan, but can with Blue due to better Ki control. You saying that Blue provides no further increase to Ki control than the regular Super Saiyan is 100% false
FreezrMario Filler or not he used Kaioken with normal super saiyan
When he was dead.
Goku Black He used it for one punch and filler. He did not use it.
FreezrMario there is no filler in super
Sturzam the Saiyan Demon they're talking about z
Goku and Vegeta still use anger to an extent. When Vegeta was fighting Cabba in the universe 6 tournament, Vegeta purposely pisses of Cabba and then at the end of it Vegeta told Cabba to never forget that feeling. So if I'm gonna assume they just use the feeling of anger and hopelessness to trigger the transformation and to quote Vegeta "Super Saiyan transformations become possible through anger, don't forget that feeling just now".
Remember when trunks came back from the Future for the first time and asked goku to turn ssj? GOKU said that it was hard for him in the beginning but now he'd mastered it, then he went ssj and the rest of the gang pointed that they weren't even in a constrict situation (not the exact words but you get the point I presume).
So yes, anger is required when you haven't achieved the ssj state for the first time. Goku vs freezer is all about that feeling, emotions that strangle your entire being... Watching brothers and sisters die and the world at the edge of extinction. But with training, that anger is no longer required and you replace Anger with awareness and who knows what else (I haven't achieved ssj state YET) =P
Good one
Possible Spoilers***
But in the last ep (episode 88), even tho Cabba wasn't in a tough situation he still transformed and he still had that look like someone killed his family. I think the mastery that Goku was talking about meant how fast he can reach it (currently instantly) and how long he can stay in ssj (couple days or months) but even after they transformed, they low-key look pissed.
But even with that said anger is still the driving force behind a super saiyan transformation *Fun fact: the angrier a saiyan gets the darker their hair eg when Beerus slapped Bulma*.
Shadow Rz SSGSS is with a calm mind not anger SSJ was from anger as we saw from goku vegeta trunks and even gohan
And speaking from experience, it's not easy to try and limit yourself while you're angry. This might be why Toriyamaa wrote ssgss as having better ki control, never know what goes on in his head.
I always interpreted it as it took anger/unstable emotions to transform into Super Saiyan for the first time, and because a Saiyan's body learns from it's power - can use it more and more easily over time without being angry.
I also always interpreted Goku going Super Saiyan, 2, and 3 to test their opponent's power and for the fun of it.
The krillin is stronger than SSJ statement is BS
Gamer99 Goku can blowup entire bathroom if he took a hard shit
That's why Super is garbage
And you keep watching, you garbage.
Gamer99 lool one of the most bs comment I've heard geekdom make..when you take time to listen to geekdom you start realising he makes some retarded statements
so Goku cant beat krillin in base form? ROFL cmon man
No, I believe SSJB has better Ki control than SSJ. Goku himself states that he can only use Kaio-ken as SSJB and not SSJ because the form is based on calm mind and ki control. SSJ is a form based on flaring out raw energy to power yourself up.
AND NO. Geekdom, Krillin is not past SSJ. Goku literally said to Krillin. "What will you do now?" when he went SSJ, then asked again AFTER he went SSJB. He was testing Krillin's confidence and strategy against stronger opponents.
And against C17? It's fair to say C17 has surpassed SSJ1-3, which forces Goku to go to the one stronger form.
I actually can't believe you said Krillin is stronger than SSJ. C'mon man.
BrosUnited Geekdom said SSB has better ki control but what he doesn't agree with is the fact that the theory says SSB doesn't make his ki stronger and Krillin I think he would beat Frieza back in the namek arc so he is above initial ssj Goku in my opinion but not later on Goku
BrosUnited at what point in the episode did goku say that
BrosUnited I agree with you. I hate when I say that and get shit because if vids like this when it's been stated in the show about the Ki control.
Drag Gamer Bruh Goku wasn't even capable of beating Full Power Final Form Frieza in his base form in the Beerus arc (Beerus' words) pre God transformation. How would Krillin be able to? Just so no one bothers to mention it Gohan one shotted Frieza in a non canon movie. In the actual series he'd need to go SS to be able to do that.
i think drag was refering to krillin NOW being as strong as or somewhat stronger then goku back when he first became a SSJ back in the namek saga , which seems logical to me as a lot of time has passed and krillin did get stronger.
so the krillin in super could kick the shit out of namek saga freeza.
Wow, there are more ssj blue theories now than Krillin's losing streak. See what you've done Krillin and Android 17?
Mihai Mercenarul lmfao
Mihai Mercenarul you talking about his death count then he only died 3 times lol
He said losing streak, not death count.
Both SSJ1 and SSJ Blue are mastered. Goku can constrain his Super Saiyan 1, as we saw in the Cell arc, and he can constrain his Super Saiyan Blue form as Whis said the form was all about control.
The only difference is, SSJ1 has a cap (x50) while SSJBlue can go much higher. Goku didn't use his Blue form against Krillin because he "had to", he used it to intimidate him because there were going to be a lot more fighters with that level of pressure in the tournament. Only 17 has surpassed SSJ1.
The Magnificent Majunior Thank you somebody gets it
The Magnificent Majunior If you're saying that 17 surpass ssj1 goku, that means 17 is already stronger than buuhan right?
Izanagi-no-okami 2.0 I'm not sure why people feel 17 is so weak. The guy is powerful man. He's been training for years almost 10 years from what's implied. I have no problem entertaining the idea that he could fight Buu and his many forms
ssj1, not ssj1 goku, can't you read?
Cars N Shizzz I wouldn't mind him being even stronger than super vegito but him holding back against blue? that's bullshit which was done by toei to excite fans about 17's return
"Krillin is stronger than SSJ"
except for that recent time when base form Goku falcon punched Krillin so hard his face nearly collapsed and he ruined someone's quiet evening at home.
I choose to interpret this as he's stronger than like... Frieza saga SSJ or some shit, but he's in no way stronger than current SSJ, which is fifty times stronger than something that casually wrecked his shit.
Super saiyan blue is just that, super saiyan blue, a form that has great ki control and calm mind but most important of all, doesn't let ki out of the user's body. Which means that unlike regular super saiyan goku has access to all his ki because his body is not constantly releasing ki. And because of the ki control factor, he can change the amount of power he uses, whether it be just slightly above super saiyan or god level.
Valakian good explanation
Hey Geekdom, I think there are a couple of key things you might be missing... during the Universal Tournament when Goku first uses SSB Kaioken, Vegeta, Goku & Elder Kai discuss the why Goku can use Kaioken in SSB but not previous Super Saiyan forms. Basically SSB allows Goku "a calm mind & proper Ki control". This is essentially it, while Goku can DEFINITELY control his Ki in all other SSJ forms, the control is nowhere near as fine as when in SSB, also while in SSJ Goku & Vegeta will always have additional aggression. They may seem relaxed, but I think we've all laughed at a friends joke while secretly pretty stressed.
So here is the breakdown as to why this means Goku goes Blue when fighting Krillin: Goku uses SSB because his mind is clear of aggression & he can push Krillin to his limits much easier, without the potential of going too far and hurting him. Goku could go too far in SSJ because of a less nuanced Ki control AND because Goku feels more competitive (and to use the wrong term, bloodlusty) in SSJ.
I think it should be universally accepted however that SSB is a lot more powerful than any of the regular Super Saiyan forms. You were 100% correct Geekdom in pointing out that there would be no point in Goku going SSB against Frieza unless it offered him a power boost. After all, aggression is a good thing when fighting an enemy intent on killing your friends.
Dante Solablood i
goku only wanted to test , if krilin has the guts to fight stronger opponents..
Ashutosh Sharma you hit the nail on the head. it's like me pointing a gun at someone and not pulling the trigger. they either piss their pants and cry or man up.
Ashutosh Sharma with krillin that makes sense but I feel 17 might actually be stronger. I feel it was a test for sure to go blue to let them know what to expect from the other fighters power.
My Theory. What do you think SSJ4Guy?
I've had a theory about SSBlue for a while now. Think of SSBlue as an empty container. A shell if you will. Inside this container/shell there are multiple shelves for storing power like you would knick knacks in your house on your wall. I think it stores power from previous forms that he can pick off of these shelves at will. So for example: He transforms into SSBlue. Inside the shell he's got Goku Base Power on one shelf, SS1 Power on another shelf, SS2 Power on a third shelf, and SS3 on a 4th shelf. Then he's got utility shelves for other techniques that he can tap into on other shelves for things such as the Kaio-Ken. What if SSBlue is actually a storage container that he can pick and choose power from whichever form he wants at any given time with ZERO Power Leaks. Whereas he can choose power from SS3 if he wanted but with no leak because he is in SSBlue? In regular SS3 he's shooting out power left and right with little to no ki control but in SSBlue when he chooses SS3 hes got more power at his disposal but with Full Ki Control. It's something I've thought for a while now. It makes since to me if I think about it that way.
ChronisOfTheTwilight legit theory u should of made a video
ChronisOfTheTwilight Honestly, that makes perfect sense to me
currently uploading a video about it. should be done in a few minutes. check it out if u feel inclined. I go into further detail
The video of my theory will be up in just a moment. It's almost done uploading. I'll link it here when it's done if you guys don't mind.
Lol i ain't gonna read this crap
"IT'S OVER ANAKIN, I HAVE THE KI CONTROL"
The amount of work Geekdom101 and these few Dragonball dedicated channels put into making these types of videos is amazing. The research and validation checking seems to be as legit as it can be. Props to you guys for providing entertaining and educational videos on our favorite show :)
"WAIT GUYS! Toriyama never originally stated the x50 multiplier, he states on record he intended it to be a x5 - x10 but he accepts the community wanting the x50
Sabrina & Johnnyangel That would make the transformation almost useless since Goku was able to go Kaio-ken x20 in the Namek arc before even going Ssj
Maybe Kaioken doesn't mean multiplying the power. Maybe it's just a multiplier of the Kaioken itself. So Kaioken 1x gives you a 10% multiplier, then a 20x gives you a 200% or 2x multiplier in overall power. Was always my headcanon like this because the 20x multiplier is way overboard. A 40x Kaioken Saiyajinsaga Goku could never fight first form Freezer... but with 40x multiplier he could, think about that.
even with a 40x multiplier saiyan saga goku wouldn't be able to touch 1st form freeza. Even if you high ball goku and use the mis-translated 9,000+ power level given to goku, multiplying that by 40 would only give goku a power of 360,000 where as 1st form freeza is stated to have a power level of 540,000.
Also if kaioken is only a percentage multiplier like x20 being 200% then how come x4 kaioken onto the 8,000 power of saiyan saga goku is stronger than vegeta who was stated to be a 18,000 but his full-power galick gun was 24,000. If x3 was 30% like you've said then that would mean that goku would only have a power of 8,240 when in x3 kaioken, but in x3 kaioken goku was equal to vegetas full power galick gun of 24,000 and was stronger than it in x4 when he won the beam struggle.
Not trying to be rude just proving your head-canon wrong
You did good at the start on debunking the tank theory but you absolutely lost your damn mind when you said what krillin as surpassed a super saiyan I was about to throw my lamp across the whole room.
Mitchel Rage He said it doesn't make sense, that's just the only reason Goku would use blue against him.
Mitchel Rage
Krillin did got 70x stronger in less than a day on Namek when he got his potentail unlocked
xthatGhomiex 1. he never said current SSJ Goku and krillin is above early super Saiyans
2. There was a reason to use blue and goku even said it "what would you do now" he was testing krillin to see how he would handle being outmatched he started with SSJ and upon seeing krillin in action and being impressed he raised the bar and asked what would you do now as to promote tactical fighting against superior opponents.
Probably when Goku FIRST went ssj1 with frieza, not now in super because well God ki is absorbed
This video was dope until you said Krillin is stronger than ss😑.
Clearly he went blue to see if they would back down or show fear. Because if they did he wouldn't be able to use them in the tournament. Because he's looking for the strongest
Duh 🙄
RebelFUGI Ur exactly right. There anit no way in Hell that Krillen is stronger than GOKUS base x50.
Eigwak Krillin is around Majin Vegeta level in the Buu Saga
Logically, he shouldn't be. Plot wise, probably is, Dragonball doesn't always stick to logic, characters getting stronger than they should isn't new.
RebelFUGI agreed
Before super at the end of the buu saga, krillin was around base goten and trunks in strength, give or take, and although he has gotten a power boost recently, he is NO WHERE NEAR goku ssj, even surpressed, I would say he's around perfect cell level now at the highball end, and android 17 (cell saga) around the lowball, I usually like geekdoms content but he got it badly wrong here, I expect there will be a Seth the programmer video about this at some point
I like to believe that since Blue supposedly gives significant Ki control, it allows Goku to be very casual with his power. When he goes Blue, I see it as just removing limits that his base form had. He is fighting with the same amount of power as he was previously, he just wants to give that form as much practice as possible by putting on a light show.
Remember when he left the chamber with Gohan and they were SSJs while completely calm? They were able to fall asleep and maintain the form. I saw that as the same "casualness" with the powers; a perfected SSJ form has perfect Ki control, and Goku can still fight as strong as he would have in base. Hell, when he was asleep, Krillin throwing that rock on his forehead seemed to have hurt him just as much as it would have hurt us.
So yeah, I like to believe that he COULD still fight in base and ROFLstomp 17 and Krillin, he's just giving the form additional workout.
At some point Geekdom said "The Shark Tank Theory" lol but great video bro, keep it up
It's simple:
Goku turns blue against Krillin to see how he'd react against God level ki. Goku doesn't NEED to transform to SSJ or higher at all. Honestly, Toei does it to make the fight/episode have more weight to it and look cooler.
17 being substantially stronger and Goku stating that he NEEDED to go Blue?..........he probably ran into the cyborg God of universe 0 lol
Ki Control reasoning is not wrong but it's not right. I agree he's using control. Answer this though. If Goku suppressed his energy so much, why transform at all? His kamehameha struggle with Krillin would be MUCH weaker than his base Kamehameha unless you're telling me that's not enough to withstand a kamehameha from Krillin. It's to give Krillin some false confidence or confidence in general.
Transforming against Krillin was just to see how he'd stand up to something he knows he's too weak to handle. I think this is pretty clearly stated and intentional as we see Krillin shaking beforehand, then he gains his composure back. Which is great character development.
Goku going Blue against Krillin was definitely to intimidate/Test him I mean Goku even states "What will you do now Krillin?" When he transforms. Goku didn't need to go Blue. Krillin even implied that Gohan was significantly stronger than him, he said to Gohan "With your power and my experience we can win" not to mention that BASE Gohan easily deflected Krillins attacks and punched him through a pillar.
Goku can't feel 17's energy, that's why he needed it to ask 17 to use his full power and measure it better.
And you already answered your last question, he did it so Krillin could feel the pressure.
I think 17 could easily be above ssj3 at this point in the series. he's mechanically enhanced to dominate a ssj1 Goku in post freiza era while being able to continue training and growing at a similar expected rate. I think Goku's only unexpectedly huge jumps in power are when he goes ssj1 and when he goes ssg. Other than those 2 jumps in power, his growth seems to be steady and predictable, so considering android 17 was built to stay ahead of him after the first one, the second was the only point at which Goku really pulled ahead in a crazy way. Android 17 being around ssg levels at this point seems pretty reasonable imo.
It still makes absolutely no sense. By this point in the series we know that god ki does trickle down into your base form (that was established in BOTG) which means that Goku has god ki in his base, and the SSJ forms are multipliers of the base form, meaning that even in his SSJ2 form he should be extremly powerful, looking at the showcase match Goku would have easily stomped out Bergamo had he went full power SSJ2. I'm saying all of this to say that even a SSJ2 Goku battling Krillin would be showing Krillin god level ki and tournament level power.
I feel like I'm ,taking Dragon ball online class watching geekdom
Thad lindor I can wake up at 5am for Geekdom's video yet I'm late for my 9:30am class xD
Why can't we all just accept it's a fictional story? It's not like these people are putting Goku in a near death state. SSJ3 Goku took out SSJ2 trunks in the anime. You're thinking too hard about this shit if you're freaking out over Krillin throwing some punches against blue Goku. Great vid geekdom ✌🏼️❤️
exactly its a show where people can fly and people use logic like defuq
Star Killer easy dbz have made attemps to be taking seriously so people will take the plot seriously. Being fictional doesnt mean you can treat audiences like children
Adam Cunt same. Thats what I have been wanting people to know.
Even fictional stories need logic and shouldn't have a wild unexplained plot.
AssBoyz Ent. DBS IS FOR KIDS! and they dont care
“Blow up the entire bathroom taking a hard shit” 😂😂😂 fucking love this channel
+Geekdom101 their theories had flaws and so does yours .
LeBron James yup he's right for the most part except two things: we do know to some extent that god ki is distinctively different than normal ki because of whis' staff(goku and vegeta can also use this power in normal form which we know from all sources including the movie). Also android 17 he is proving to be strong by gokus and dende's statement that he would be a serious threat if he were an enemy. As for krillin and the others he is using blue to demonstrate the differences in power and how they are prepared to face it, seeing as there are 70 enemies in the tournament. Its pretty simple the theme of this arc is to overcome limits against overwhelming power. So for the strongest 10 they have to reach powers to overwhelming levels. Goku if course suppressed his power but he needed to incite strong emotions within the fighters, whether it be fear or understanding so he could get them to prepare like never before. js
The problem with the SSJ4 guy is that he says that ssj4 ki is recycled. which is false. they could potentially go fight forever. which is stupid since goku didn't last that long even with overflowing energy from the others.
Super saiyan god and super saiyan blue are the 2 transformations that are so powerfull it could destroy the entire universe. THAT is how strong these 2 forms are. no question blue is stronger. but even SS god was a upgrade from ssj3 from solar system buster to a universal buster.
SSJ4 is a very diffrent transformation. this is where the theory is kinda true but also not. the oozaru form is the primal form of a saiyan. significantly making that saiyan stronger. but having no control over themselves. this also means that the ssj4 form no matter how powerfull would leak even more ki. it doesn't matter if that is the prime form. because a oozaru saiyan body is already so unstable. goku in his first minute being SSJ4 shattered glass. and stated it is very difficult to maintain control.
the water tank formula on Supersaiyan blue is also completely false. super saiyan blue is an transformation so powerfull it can destroy a universe. now geekdom is also wrong that SSblue isn't more "control" when in fact it is a transformation based on ki control. it is just way more refined. and it also increased the ki goku can use in that form. and more controlled. meaning that wasted ki it would be is now controlled and doesn't waste. resulting in more efficient use of ki.
the water tank formula no matter how good it looks is just false. and to me it doesn't make sense. especially not ssj4 being able to compete to SSblue.
SSBlue is meant to be a universal buster. and ssj4 is not. call it lazy, but this is the truth. not to mention SSJ4 wouldn't even exist. this isn't even a argument. the moment super came is when SSJ4 transformation possibility when out the window.
SSJ4 is definintely a powerfull form. it just doesn't hold a candle to SSBlue. SSj4 would never be able to go with kaioken. while SSblue can.
SSJ4 is inferior to Blue, i don't understand why people try to argue this.
illusionX right I try telling people but they do not listen they go with theory and not true statements.
illusionX SSJ4 can annihilate universes too lol. Base GT Goku could destroy the universe. Anime Verse Vegito and Buuhan were universe tier. Super Baby 1 was beyond that. SSJ4 based on feats and scaling is the superior form. No stamina drain, no drawbacks in SSJ4. SSJ4 has various abilities that SSB doesn't have as well. Also, in its first appearance, SSJ4 Goku tanked an attack far superior to Beerus' hakai in the form of Baby's Revenge Death Ball
Jo-Smooth, do you even know what you're on about? Base goku in GT never even showed any capability to destroying the universe. where do you base this on exactly?
Vegito and buuhan were never universe tier. this is false. Vegito on SSJ1 was maybe a galaxy buster. buuhan was never even considered a universe buster. maybe galaxy on a high ball. but not universe. the only way for buu to go "universal" is to get angry. he did show that in the anime. but vegito stopped him.
the potential is there. but he didn't posses that during the fight against vegito.
beerus has a ability called : "destroy" which is hakai in japanese. this ability is used by beerus to erase anyone that would cause a "threat" which means beerus would most likely use his full power to do so. beerus at this moment is the highest ladder for goku and vegeta reach to. and baby is supposedly stronger then beerus now with his deathball?
SSJ4 has no stamina drain? are you serious? where is that idea coming from? if anything SSJ4 could be even worse then SSJ3. we don't even know how much stamina SSJ4 even possesed! and you go on about SSJ4 being superior as a form is complete fallacy. SSJ4 had a big issue. control, when they go into their oozaru form they have 0 control. but regaining their form of control to go back into a regular saiyan body they draw out primal power from their oozaru form.
i can only say that even it being called SSJ4 is just wrong. since ssj1/2/3 are stepping stones from 1 to 2 to 3. in GT they just mixed it up with a oozaru form suddenly making it into ssj4.
do people forget that vegeta had control over his oozaru form in his first fight against goku? why didn't he turn ssj4 right there? because it is bad storywriting. as much as i like SSJ4 looks and shit it is even worse then super saiyan blue in terms of logical sense.
oh, just to add goku didn't tank the deathball. he almost died. and decided to absorb that negative ki into himself.
you have 0 evidence to back up what you said. but in super there are enough evidence to back up mine. tell my yours when you dig up some braincells.
I can get behind 17 being stronger than normal super saiyan, but not krillin. Because, during the fight he was never able to fight the yellow form head on, so it wouldn't make sense to say he surpassed it, unlike 17.
mixedican And since when is Krillin banned from getting stronger in base to be able to surpass someone going SS?
WHEN THE FUCK DID FANS GET DUMB ENOUGH TO CONSIDER SS AS HAVING ITS OWN POWER LEVEL?
geekdom just confused krillin's technique with strenght.
Right. Krillin was using strategy. 17 was using brute strength and not even all of it.
***** Gero didn't have any data on super saiyan either
Android 17 and 18 can't sense Ki at all so not being able to sense Gokus ki while in SSB wouldn't affect them at all. They could possibly feel the pressure but without the lack of ki sense it wouldn't affect them as much.
Geekdom if ssj has better Ki then ssb, why can't Goku use Kaioken in ssj?! That part makes no sense. It takes ssb to use Kaioken, Elder Kai said if Goku used ssj and Kaioken he will kill himself.
Dragon Scale goku has used ssj with kaioken
Thats non canon
kwantap02 in filler.
+kwantap02
That episode was just filler, and besides, Goku was in the Overworld where there are no repercussions on his body.
maybe he didnt have enough stamina at the time, or kai is just underestimating him
he did it to boost their confidence
Nah.
xxBwezzyxx. exactly
One of my biggest gripes with your videos was that you used a single picture throughout the video, not giving us any change for us to visualize what you're talking about. Really glad to see this format.
Goku made Chi Chi fly through a wall just by tapping her back
Goku went blue against Krillin and 17 for two reasons. But both reasons basically to test them. When in blue form opponents cannot sense his ki and they feel an enormous pressure. During the exhibition Goku said that Lavender's ki was undetectable, so there will be opponents during the tournament that they will not be able to detect. Goku wanted to see how they handled that. Second he wanted to see if they were strong or durable enough to take a blow from him in that form. I believe Goku could kill 17 and Krillin in his base form, but he would actually have to make an effort however slight that may be. While in blue form he can deal the same death blows with no effort. I believe Goku used maybe not even 1% of his power against Krillin and 10% or under with 17. It's like when Beerus fought Goku the first time. He did it for fun mostly.
THIS IS JUST MY THEORY
When someone trains with Whis he unlocks the God ki, as Vegeta did, its kinda like the fighter gets two kis inside his body, his regular and a few god ki, when a sayan taps only into god ki, he gets the red form, when they trained with Whis and learned how to control their ki's flow better than before, they became able to mix regular and god ki, basically they go super sayan and add the god ki to it and go Blue, an evidence is that Goku in his first SSB transformation had the regular super sayan aura for a brief moment and then went full blue, to me that is the point where he mix both kis and unlock the transformation.
As I understand it, there are several forms, and several ki signatures:
You have mortal ki, and then godly ki. Mortal ki is what Saiyans, Nameks, Humans and everyone else can manipulate for several uses: flying, blasts, enery, whatever. And then, you have godly ki, which is what Beerus has and cannot be detected nor sensed by normal means.
Super Saiyan states use mortal ki, and can be accesed by rage or training. Once unlocked, it can be trained for better access and better ki manipulation. It uses the user's ki pool.
Super Saiyan God (the red form) is a form running only on godly ki, achieved by five pure-hearted saiyans pouring their power into a sixth saiyan, therefore granting his access to god ki.
Saiyan Beyond God (the base-form looking one) (Kami wo koeta Saiya-jin) is a Saiyan who has managed to control and absorbed god ki, therefore having access to a different pool of ki. It looks like the user's base form, but with a white aura, pretty much the same look Gohan has when he accesses his Mystic form. I think we must make the distinction: This is NOT the user's BASE form. Goku was NOT in base form when he fought Frieza in DBS. He was using his godly-ki-empowered form.
Super Saiyan Blue is a whole different animal. Super Saiyan Blue is NOT a Super Saiyan form ON TOP of a Super Saiyan God. That's the reason I always disliked the term Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, because it is inaccurate. Super Saiyan Blue is a Saiyan Beyond God who learned to control his godly ki, and then, turn Super Saiyan on top of that.
Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue are different forms, but both using god ki. Super Saiyan Blue is not 50 times stronger than Super Saiyan God, as it is not stacked. If the 50x multiplier applies, Super Saiyan Blue is 50 times stronger than the Saiyan Beyond God form. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a lousy term for it. I think a more precise description would be "God-ki infused Super Saiyan".
That's the reason Goku and Vegeta can access all of those forms. They can go Super Saiyan 1, 2 and 3 using mortal ki, or turn it up a notch: Saiyan beyond God, Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue, using godly ki. Vastly different results.
Saiyan beyond God is not their base form either. It looks similar, but it uses different ki, and has vastly different powers. Vegeta in his SBG form would've anhiliated Cabba, as it is vastly more powerful than his Super Saiyan 2 form. But of course, it's also way weaker than his Super Saiyan Blue form.
Blue seems stronger than Red, but not by an enourmous margin. If the manga explanation is to be believed, it is only between twice and ten times stronger (Super Saiyan God Goku against Hit is stronger than Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue against Hit, as he could only use 10% of his power because he used it against Cabba.
They established earlier than Super Saiyan God has a time limit. Once Goku dropped out of it, he managed to """"absorb"""" the god power, therefore, having granted access to god ki. That's the earliest apparition of the Saiyan beyond God form. Then, he turned Super Saiyan with still the power of a God within him. That moment was the "prototype" or the most primitive version of a Super Saiyan Blue: a god-ki infused Super Saiyan.
And I agree. The power scaling got messed up after that.
It was actually explained that SSJB is the power of Super Saiyan God with SSJ1 added to it. Meaning it's SSJ1 on top of SSJG. Also the original name is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. It's being called SSJB because it is shorter to pronounce.
What I meant is it's not a stacking of multipliers, as it is not 50 times (if we go with the Daizenshuu multiplies) more powerful than Super Saiyan God. SSB is a SSJ1 by a Saiyan who can access god ki. If it was just SSJ1 on top of SSG, it'd be more powerful than Beerus.
Goku explains it himself: "It's not easy to explain, but this is the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the powers of a Super Saiyan God". Basically, a Saiyan who managed to acess and use god ki (kami wo koeta saiya-jin) turning Super Saiyan.
For one you're partially right about the multiplier part because it was never stated, but you never know, so don't go making your own assumptions as if it's a fact. Toriyama named it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because it's basically a SSJG combined with SSJ1. Saying "SSB is a SSJ1 by a Saiyan who can access god ki.", isn't gonna change the fact it's still SSJ1 empowered by SSJG, or the other way around. The result will be the same. Also it wouldn't be stronger than Beerus, as Toriyama already explained he doesn't plan on Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus.
Goku: "It's not easy to explain, but this is the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the powers of a Super Saiyan God". Basically a SSJ1 empowered by SSJG's power aka SSJGSSJ. No matter how you describe it. It's basically SSJ1 combined with SSJG.
Andres Guazzelli god ki is just normal ki that's kept inside your body. It's not a separate form of ki
Everton Douglas god ki can't be sensed because the ki is kept internally. It's not just suppressing, it's perfect ki control as well, with minimal ki leakage/energy expended at the cost of stamina. Where has it been stated to have been a different kind of ki? Iirc, it's always been described as ki controlled to a divine level
The only thing I have a problem with is Kuririn surpassing Goku in regular SSJ because that ultimately means that he’s surpassed Goku in his base form and honestly I don’t think so. I think it could’ve been more of a confidence boost thing, or perhaps Toei did blue when they should’ve done golden.
perhaps the whole "ki controle" factor could be that he can more closely match his opponents powerlevel in blue then in any of the other forms.
let's say for instance that goku is sparring with krillin , and krillin's powerlevel is in between SSJ2 and SSJ3.
if goku stayed in SSJ2 he'd be weaker then krillin and can't give him a propper match , where as if he were to go SSJ3 he'd be far to strong for krillin to go all out against.
and that by going SSJB he can controle his ki up to a point where his powerlevel is as close to krillin as he can lower it thus giving his buddy an evenly matched fight.
that could explain why both krillin and 17 could keep up with goku without being overpowered.
so to keep it simple , i think that using the blue form gives goku the abillity to finetune his powerlevel depending on the person he's up against ( at least in sparing ) as opposed to having to go all out in an actual fight.
Anger is certainly the catalyst for transforming into Super Saiyan. However, it is only the initial trigger to becoming a Super Saiyan, but after the initial transformation they learn how to transform and maintain the transformation without anger. Also, like Geekdom101 mentioned, Goku has already been in control of his ki throughout the series from way back in DBZ making the entire theory, that Goku is only using blue to control his ki, which was not confirmed officially and it is only theory for now at this point.
I agree 17 is stronger than SSJ Goku but Goku clearly went SSB just to intimidate Krillin based on what happened in previous episodes and what Goku said when he transformed. When Goku transformed he said "What will you do now Krillin?" As in what will you do against an opponent so much stronger than you. And as we know from the past few episodes Krillin was scared to fight opponents that were much stronger than him or who had killed him in the past, I mean Krillin even gave up fighting after he asked BASE Goku to punch him and he realised the power difference. Krillin in the episode where he fought SSB Goku even implied that Gohan was significantly stronger than him, he stated to Gohan "With your power and my experience we can win" Also Base Gohan blocked Krillins punches like they were nothing.
Son Goku Well Krillin is around Majin Vegeta level in the Buu Saga so he is not near base Goku but can fight him with tactics like Ussop in One Piece
Its just poor writing on Toei's part (they care more about spectacle than logic). This has been a running theme with them (i.e. let's bring back Frieza and give him 4 months of training, let's give a reason for Goku and Krillin to train by having them harmed by bullets, let's show that the non-saiyan fighters are tournament-ready by having each of them fight on par with SSJ Blue Goku). How difficult would it have been to have Whis train everybody on Beerus' planet? The manga does a better job at explaining things tbh.
Word by word... you're speaking the TRUTH.
Well, that's the problem if you're pulling the ideas out of your ass without having a proper storyboard just like the manga.
I believe that Goku uses blue as a scare tactic to show the contenders he is trying to recruit that this is the kind of level theyre going to compete against and if they seem scared or back down from the fight against blue then theyre not prepared to enroll in that tournament. Also, Blue might give some extra control making Goku able to go even below his base form so he can actually use his fight moves without a big portion of the potence making the fight safer for the other person and the environment .
I've got to tell you, I've never commented on a youtube video regarding something like this before, and this will probably be the last time I ever do. However, after watching the WTF video and this video "debunking" it I'm a little disappointed because it seems you did not understand the Water Tank Formula.
I implore you to change your video to "Water Tank Formula Explained and Critiqued" because you didn't even come near to debunking it. I think you need to rewatch the WTF video, and then rewatch your own video because you seem to be critiquing the video with a foggy memory of what was actually in it.
The WTF is currently the most simple and elegant explanation to the current forms. The thing about the WTF image that you used is that you took the image at face value, when the creator of the image told you that the image was not "scaled properly". Meaning that the image gives the illusion that the forms are more equal than they actually are but the basic principle of how the forms work remains the same.
The WTF shows that Super Saiyan Blue has the ability to put out as little energy as base form, or an as of yet undermined amount of energy MORE than SSJ3. Thats all, it does, it opens the potential to pour out all your energy much more quickly than the other forms.
According to the WTF it simply shows us that the power we see being output in the show isn't the characters total power, its their total power output, the image shows their "maximum" power output while also showing the drawbacks. The argument isn't that the power of SSJ 1 / 2 and 3 can't be scaled. All he's saying is that when those forms are in use, their energy drain is constant.
I'm going to repeat this again: The Water Tank Formula states simply that SSJ 1 2 and 3 drain ki constantly. The amount of ki being drained is dependent on the amount being used, and the WTF image is based on the MAXIMUM usage of ki. The image shows the character outputting the most amount of energy the can possibly output in that form.
Why does Goku constantly use ssj1 , 2 and 3 even though Blue offers more control and also more output than all the other previous forms? BECAUSE HE'S GOKU. It's the same reason goku starts some fights in base form even though its pointless, goku never fights all out, and he doesn't fight efficiently, if he did he'd never bother with SSJ1 - 3 ever again.
I like your videos Geekdom101, you're probably the first youtube i've ever actually consistently watched after a DBS episode and I'de like to think thats saying something, but I really believe you didn't understand this formula and ask you to give it a rewatch along with your video and really study it.
damn right.though i didnt saw the video you were talking about still i got how the formula works and how to measure things based on that formula...its about controling the flow of water out of the tank...
i love this comment and i agree alot with u i think geekdom does need to respond
So your explanation is "because he's goku." goku learnt to control his ki output from before he could go super saiyan, hence the useless scouter readings in the early z arcs. He transforms to access a higher reserve of power which is a multiple of his base but still he regulates his ki output. When goku transforms out of base form in a fight, its because he needs access to more power period. Will he use full power? that's a different story.
i still think that using blue is Superior tho cause it does not use nearly as much stamina as ssj do and that is why blue is better but i think u uses ssj cause he always holds back and in ssb he can deliver a lot more power ki then in his other transformations and he does have the best control of ki ssb that is stated by whis that is is the most efficient transformation so i dont know why goku would still use ssj for any reason
@derick ramdeen You're not contradicting me.
The water tank theory
DRINK IT IN MAAAN
Are you trying to say this water tank theory doesn't hold water?
It leaks.
I can't believe it. Krillin is not that powerful, come on.
Cyboneuron Odland lol you don't get it. I will make it simple for you. I pull a gun on someone showing intent that I mean business so you have two choices either piss your pants or man up and still come at me even though you are at a huge disadvantage. that's all goku was doing when he was going against krillin. Can't have krillin being a lil Bitch like gohan was against nappa way back and get someone hurt killed or whatever.
Yea he was tripping with that one
He's going blue because he wants them to know the caliber of power they're going up against in the tournament
We can't say 17 is significant weaker than Goku when Goku said himself that 17 wasn't even going all out the entire time
It's not very often I disagree with you Geekdom, but I don't think Toriama envisions Krillin being stronger than Goku as a Super Saiyan, let alone in his base form.
Everyone has been stronger then SSJ since the Cell saga. 18 beat Vegeta and Trunks, Cell beat Vegeta, and the Cell.Jrs fought Vegeta and Goku to a stand still.
So yeah at this point all the characters, save Roshi and Yamcha, are stronger the default SSJ.
al qu doubt
@@alqu6375 no they were stronger than cell saga ssj goku and vegeta ssj is a multiplier and base goku is way more powerful than the ssj's from back then base goku>krillin he just used ssjb so he could psyche up krillin and test his courage and give him a confidence boost
Okay I agree with everything you said except that SSB does have better ki control. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me but Goku himself says against Hit that SSB is the combination of a calm mind and perfect Ki control and the reason he couldn't use Kaioken with regular ssj is because he doesn't have the same calm mind. If you aren't calm your ki control won't be as precise. Just because they aren't screaming in the ssj every 5 secs doesn't mean they are completely calm it's a stressful form on the mind still and it probably takes a lot of concentration to hold back the rage
Wait so does Goku not have a calm mind when maintaining SSJ after the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in the Cell Saga? Or does he just have a more calm mind/better ki control in Blue? Like is it just that his ki control is still precise in Mastered SSJ but even more precise in Blue? It seems like he's very calm but idk I guess your point that its still stressful on the mind is a factor towards all of this
How about we all just agree he's holding back because literally why the fuck is it even a question?
Also, here is the thing, you are assuming Goku works like Superman in the he is constantly at full strength but must hold back all the time. He is not, SSJ is a multiplier, meaning it multiplies the strength of his base for immensely. His base for is not constantly a threat to the earth in the way you say it is. He may have to hold back sometimes in base form but it's nothing like you say.
I understand ki like this. When you're working out, you have two ways to work out. Being reactive and proactive. Reactive meaning when you are working out, you are not conscious of what your form is, but just doing what is necessary to complete the exercise. Doing this also causes you to have less tension in other areas leading to "leaks" in fitness terms. Which causes you to lose your energy faster. With doing that you burn out faster. When you are being proactive (being conscious of your whole body and the exercise) you know to keep your muscles tense, closing up your "leaks". Your energy flows better that way cause nothing is leaking (as long as you are being proactive). This usually makes the exercise harder, because you are using proper form and keeping tension where it needs to be kept. Maybe that's why it's called God Ki, because you are fully aware of where your energy is and what your entire body is doing. Where you are exerting your energy and how much you should be exerting, and keeping in. That's why the stamina comes into play, because keeping control of the whole body like that is mentally and physically draining. That's why it is a calm state, because you are conscious. Unlike SS where it is emotional where they are not aware, leading to usually no restraints in power.
1) Red/Blue = Higher multiplier than SSJ3
2) Blue Ki control = control over energy leakage (fight ki loss) while TRANSFORMED (e.g. Goku's base ki is drained FAST as SSJ3)
3) SSJ2 = best combination of base ki multiplier and control over ki leakage during and after transformation.
4) Goku mastered ki leakage problem with USSJ in the Time Chamber and this carried over to SSJ2.
5) Before Blue, SSJ3 used only when the extra ki multiplier was absolutely necessary. Regardless, ki leakage was also drastically increased as well. In this form, he instantly went for quick the kill (e.g. Janemba) unless there was an ulterior motive (e.g. to give Vegeta chance to fight Kid Buu/stall Fat Buu) or he would lose the fight (e.g. couldn't beat Kid Buu in SSJ3 form after prolonged fighting). This is why he urged Trunks to step on it and get that damn Dragon Ball radar lol. His ki leakage in SSJ3 form would've eventually given Fat Buu the upper hand in terms of fighting ki remaining after time or he would've run out of ki (e.g. time on Earth) and returned to the other world.. But fighting Buu in SSJ2 form would've been too dangerous initially (e.g. he knew nothing about Buu's fighting abilities).
6) Blue = base ki is drained in one big burst OR the multiplier decreases with SUBSEQUENT BLUE transformations (e.g. Vegeta vs Hit) rather than energy leakage WHILE the fight is actually happening (e.g. like SSJ3). Blue leaves Goku/Vegeta vulnerable after a fight after reverting back to base form even if they don't take a ton of damage while SSJ2 doesn't. This is why Blue is a last resort. Goku and Vegeta overcame this problem by the T.O.P. but apparently only if Blue is used in short bursts.
7) Power can be suppressed in any form BUT leakage of ki cannot and is greatly controlled in SSJ or SSJ2 but perfectly controlled with a higher multiplier than SSJ3 with Blue
How I think about it, but these are just my thoughts.
Toriyama making this story for fun and games. In the meantime people are trying to make sense of it when it never did in the 1st place.. love the channel but maybe take the powerscaling thing a bit less serious. Its dragonball, a show about aliens beating eachother up and shooting energybeams, not a scientific study or something :p
Yeah people take this shit way too seriously. It's just a fucking show... enjoy it and stop analyzing every little frame. It's not some mystery anime or something it's pure entertainment lol
Roeland I mean, you could make a story wacky, but be very interesting and complex, like One Piece. However, DB key aspect is only about fighting. And for people to take a show like this as "serious" or try to have complex discussions is beyond me 😂
Well it's human nature to constantly seek knowledge and fill in in gaps. We are natural perfectionists no matter how ridiculous it seems.
lol
11:50 Ssj blue give Goku access to all ki his body can possibly generate. ssj is just a simple base multiplier. they are from training and fighting able to use any form they please. it just depends on who they're fighting. Again i get if im fighting someone that ssj max effort can take, then why use blue to win that fight supressing up to max ssj effort? lol Just go ssj and take them out and you still have a trump card in ssj blue. I see by the show that blue allows him to control all possible ki his body can generate. His body can now generate and handle more ki output than ssj 3 and blue allows access to all of it. ssj forms its a cap on their ki related to the form. ssj blue is all of his ki controlled
OOORRRRR....Goku used Super Saiyan Blue against Krillin and 17 in order to better prepare them for what they are going to face in the tournament!
6:54 I'm dyin man😂best line ever, I love it
If you remimber, Raditz said you have to be lvl 1,200 to destroy a planet. Lol
Vageta was destroying planets on the way to earth...
And Vegeta was surprised by Goku powering up over 9,000.
So you're saying the water tank doesn't.... HOLD WATER?
-__-
Yo does this even matter, I just wanna see some fights god dammit!
the way I took ssj god and ssjgss is ssj god is just goku's base with God ki and ssjgss is ssj 1 with God ki.
Dark Soul Destroyer good way to put it......
the forms are a class of there own apart from super Saiyan .
Pretty much that. Which is why I think they should go on with doing SS Blue 2 and 3.
23Temporario in your opinion do you think that would get redundant or no?
Thats why it's called super Saiyan god super Saiyan, a super Saiyan form for super saiyan god
Dark Soul Destroyer- yep that's the way I always thought about it
I'm upset by the fact that I haven't discovered this video sooner, great job!
“Goku would blow up an entire bathroom when he’s taking a hard shit”
I was weak af when I heard that. 6:53
The dbs anime has some trash power scaling. They are giving out way too many free power ups for characters without explanations or showing them intensely training. I can accept 17 got this strong since it was at least stated he was training this whole time. This way universe 7 has at least 3 really powerful fighters, but Krillin making Goku go more than his base form at this point is laughable.
Vergil Goku in his base should be able to take out Final Form Frieza. No way is Krillin strong enough to fight Frieza. I refuse to believe it.
plus, andriod 17 is a FRICKIN ROBOT. He was created with robot parts to make him strong, how does he train to stronger levels than GOD GOKU X 50 even if goku only uses ssj1. The writing absolutely stupid
Vergil i know, i said robot to make a point, it's still spare parts, how do you train circuits and metal to get stronger.
So wait, what you are saying is FP Krillin > SSJ1 Goku. Ok. SSJ 3 Gotenks even pre-black arc was >>>>SSJ3 Gotenks ? am I being just stupid or did I really catch a serious flaw in the statement thatwas given ?
TheZefarg krillin would've had to have gotten 160 thousand times stronger, if krillin was equal to goku in the buu arc.
You dont seem to get what I am trying to say
TheZefarg I don't think he meant current SSJ1 Goku. Personally I think Current Krillin > Namek SSJ Goku
Yes, I agree and even if he wasnt by a pure strength, current Krillin has much more techniques that Namek SSJ Goku
He was dumb at that part, the only thing that krillin beat goku at was at technique not at super saiyan strength.
your Debunk is flawed on the following premis: SSJ4 guy states very clearly: ssjblue is the RESULT of great ki control, ki control iIS NOT THE RESULT of ssjblue, meaning essentially that of course they can now fully control they're ki in SSJ to to an extent, its just to a lesser extent and that when they go blue, that's them with they're ki control "maxed out"
Remember chi chi getting pissed about them learning to control their power when they kept breaking glasses during dinner before cell games 😭
Goku turned blue against Krilin to scare and test him, he even Said: "and now Krilin, what Will you do?" because Krilin couldn't feel Goku's ki anymore
Logic and Dragonball Z-Super don't go together
😂😂😂😂😂 . its just a show. everybody already knows who are stronger and weaker . Without a clear cut definition.
Eastwood Rufus
it's just a show so it shouldn't have to be held to any logic at all, even it's own
that's what you just said
Enoch Hilliard Logic? What people WANT TO BELIEVE vs What there showing us on every episode? We all know Goku can kicc everybody's ass thats not Xeno or "Gods of destruction" So why make it a big deal over a few sparring matches with "Friends". Is All im saying
people prefer to make their dick hard for show logic
instead of getting a good girl
that's what he just said
*****
No I'm saying that there are actually people out there with brains that care enough about something for it to be critically sound. I don't need to make my dick hard through a show, my girlfriend does that just fine. So how about you grow a brain and stop discouraging higher thinking.
I Love Dragon Ball Super dont get me wrong , i just really think silly immature people Take alot of Fun out the show when all they do is cry over things they already know the answer too .
Had to dislike this man. Android 17 can definitely surpass SSJ1-SSJ3 since he's an improved human but I still think he's around Ultimate Gohan form if not weaker. Android 18 is definitely around SSJ2 in terms of power level. Even Piccolo is around SSJ2 (not stronger) in terms of power level.
Let's compare these characters:
Goku >= Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan (trained) >= Android 17 > Fat Buu > Piccolo > Android 18 > Tenshinhan (pretty sure he's around Perfect Cell power) > Krillin (imperfect cell power level or atleast near semi-perfect cell) > Roshi (weaker than Nappa)
I guess You don't quite feel the massive jump of Goku/Vegeta base abilities since they attained God ki, but the BoG movie/arc was pretty clear on that. And even Buu Saga SSJ1 Goku/Vegeta were stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan, and no matter how much Goku was supressed in the Blue form that time... with the aspull boost if supporting characters in the current preparations, even Krillin is at the level of oneshotting Super Perfect Cell.
I know it's pretty ridiculous, but that's the wy even DBZ always been. (Mind you Androind Saga Yamcha should've been able to hold his ground farly long time agains final form Freeza from Namek)
Still Android 17 is round current (God essence if you like) SSJ3 Goku, which is pretty epic, and is one of, if not THE most reasonable powercurves in the arc
I forgot to mention which arc the SSJs I based it on. I based it on Buu Saga, not Super, since Base form Goku and Vegeta is basically 50% of SSG Red.
Geekdom101 I love your use of the term roflstomp, every time you said it in this video I just giggled. I love you man.
''Goku could destroy a whole bathroom becase he could take a hard Shit'' OMG THAT KILLED ME XD
who is stronger basic goku or krilin goku right?
so how can ssj goku be weaker than krilin
you cant tell me basic goku is not stonger than krilin
so ssj goku is stonger.....
+gamerzzz 123
Super has shit writing
Base goku, krillin just beat him in technique
SSJB does give a massive power up, but it also does give better ki control, and thus he could supress his power more precisely but I think you're missing a key point here for this theory to work in your video. Go back to Episode 50 Goku vs Goku Black. When they were fighting Trunks asked why Goku doesn't use SSJ3 , Vegeta stated he has a habit of not fighting seriously at first, which is why he continues to use SSJ or SSJ2. As for Vegeta why he uses SSJ, probably has to do with his pride, he makes you work for it if you want to face him at his best as long as your not a threat. So yes I think the theory works, because in SSJB Goku vs Krillian or 17 he can supress his power in a more controlled manner. He clearly wasn't fighting them seriously.
He also didn't want to kill them.
Did he just say Krillin is stronger than a SSJ? *hits unsubscribe button*
Everyone has been stronger then SSJ since the Cell saga. 18 beat Vegeta and Trunks, Cell beat Vegeta, and the Cell.Jrs fought Vegeta and Goku to a stand still.
So yeah at this point all the characters, save Roshi and Yamcha, are stronger the default SSJ.
Kyle Clark I think he meant he's stronger than ssjg goku from the namek arc
al qu So if they still did the power level readings, you're telling me Krillin is up in millions? C'mon man, he doesn't even train lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was barely 20,000 on Namek, he trained leading up to the androids, and the martial arts tournament before the Buu saga. Then he became a family man, a police officer, and stopped training, but he's as strong as a SSJ? (That's some power boost) Gohan is a prime example of how weak you become when you don't train for years. Aside from Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo, Tien is the only person that a power boost would make since, because he's ALWAYS training. The writers are really just trying to stuff the idea that "strategy beats power" for this tournament arc and they're trying to make old characters relevant again. All continuity of power scaling is out the window.
Kyle Clark yes power levels hehe le bandwagon
atomicloli if we're going by that logic, what's the excuse for master Roshi being in the tournament? Or do you think he's stronger than a SSJ also?
Great video Danny, been tuning into you ever since the early days with resurrection F news! You've progressed so much even though the content has always been above stellar! Keep up the great work, you are indeed a pillar in this community and one who always strives to inform rather than mislead. Cheers!
The water tank theory just sounded dumb to me from the start. If you look at any amount of information from Dragon Ball Z, you'll see that Super Saiyan was a 50x multiplier and that came straight out of Toriyama's mouth YEARS AGO.
I know this comments old but i just wanna say i didn't believe the theory either but i dont think the creator of the theory should have gotten so much hate it makes our community look like a bunch of degenerates and i dont blame people for saying we're a toxic Fandom
He deleted it
This is interesting. Nobody touches the matter of that super sayan blue bases on divine KI, wich actually means that blue transformation is also transformation in quality of KI and that means that blue is very different transformation than super sayan that is boosted state.
unoriginal comment for likes
noa nunez 0 likes
sure about that
noa nunez
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clear voice, smart content. I feel like you should have more subscribers
17 surprassing SSJ is probable at this point even confirmed, but Krillin!? NEVER.
I can accept 17 being god level!
Crow X4 what does ssj2 level mean
Accept it. Dr. Gero made many machines that were weaker than King Piccolo. Jump forward and Dr. Gero and Android Fat Clown can body Frieza. Does that make sense?
17 and how he achieved this jump in power can be explained by upgrades and training. Frieza and his race never had been established as to how hard they train to achieve any power. Same with Buu who had mainly stolen power by absorption.
Hope it helps. And remember, Goku told 17 he had to pull out Blue.
ssj2 level is god essence goku x100
yeah, ssj2 is regular ssj2. And regular ssj2 is times 100 of base power level. Goku is god essence, at base he's stronger than buu saga vegito. Since he absorbed god power, and you can multiply that by 100. Still regular ssj2 its just that his base is so powerful now.
Lloyd Irving "It's Dumb" Welcome to Dragon Ball Super my friend
Goku wants them to know what it feels like to fight someone with god ki.
I know you made this video in April, but in May, the writer for the android 17 fight said Goku went blue to either gauge how strong his allies are for the tournament or to put pressure on his allies so that they can live up to their potential as fighters.
About the anger part - When Vegeta was training Cabba he had told him specifically that the Super Saiyan transformation becomes possible through anger and to not forgot his feeling of anger, so I still think SSJ4 Guy was right when he stated that.
I always thought the reason he used blue against Krillin was to show him how powerful people in the tourney are going to be to help prepare Krillin for the tourney.
You bring up really good points. What id like in a follow up video would be your opinion on the form. Maybe do a theory video as to what you think is the best explanation for Goku still using the old forms. I'd love to hear your opinion also on the two base form theory
MajinZombieKB nah man he's biased and leaves out important parts
Don't you think he used Super Saiyan Blue against Krillin and 17 to look how they would react if someone on this level would go against them? I just think this makes total sense.
Since SS Blue is SS God stacked with regular SSJ, in theory Goku and Vegeta should be able to transform into SS Blue 2 or even 3.
I literally wanna blow my brains out everytime I see someone comment "krillin matched with blue?!?!?! COME ON TOEI!!!! MAKES NO SENSE!!!"
You guys are crying about powers ups, but literally Goku held hands with 4 people and a unborn baby and then went toe to toe with beerus. Not only that, but everyone I have talked to about this said it was the coolest thing ever.