@Wretch Gunk He does, but that doesn't mean most women find him as the ideal. Look at Isaac Newton and Nietzsche, both died without ever procreating, huge waste of genetic potential.
I think that's a popular outcome. I became a disciple immediately and have not heard him say much to make me change my mind. An excellent mind, and perhaps more excitingly, an excellent and self-aware mind.
I wish he had his own podcast!! Where can we get more of Joscha?? Also, I would love a whole list of book recommendations. It's unbelievable the conclusions this man reaches and the clarity in his ideas and his thought process.
If he isn't the smartest guy on Earth, then he's among the small group of people who could be. The more interviews of Joscha, the better. Listening to him expands my mind in a good way.
rate quilibrium constant rate constant of reaction k equal s a e 0 Ea/RT units/ arrow increaswes with concentration a t equal temp the transition state hasgreater energy than both reactants and products
He's pretty much saying what we've always known, we are creating our story, and you can pretty much do anything you want with the right attitude towards it. He's just breaking down the mathematics of it
I been into podcasts and clever people for year been listening for Bret Weinstein, Sam Harris, Noam Chomsky, Jordan Peterson. But Joscha Bach is just on another level, I feel like I were listening to idiots(even though they certainty not) this a whole time.
The reason you feel like "a goldfish" when talking to Joscha is because he doesn't attempt to dumb down his responses to your level like most other popular intellectuals and academics would. Most intelligent people have a "filter" when talking to people outside their domain of expertise which is a social crutch that makes them seem more understandable. Incidentally, Joscha was absolutely right when he started to respond your goldfish comment by saying "this is my fault...". He recognized the issue very clearly, but this is part of his personality and what makes him a valuable thinker - he says exactly what he means with no dumbing down.
Oh man I discovered him by watching his recent interview with Lex Fridman. It was amazing to watch him almost interrupt Lex's question because he didn't need the sentence to be finished... it was almost tedious to him. Somehow it wasn't snobby but charming. He was also funny and witty. In this interview you can watch the interviewer talking for a long time and watch Bach's eyes darting around as his brain processes what I imagine to be a million responses, sorting them, categorizing them, condensing them, preparing them for the audience. The scary thing? I think this IS dumbed down... it's as simple as he can go, haha. What was his fault, was how he underestimated the goldfish threshold of the particular audience in the particular moment of time.
Joshua is just a master of optimizing and contextualizing his "output". Whatever the question, he seems to already have worked on answering it for himself, and it really shows. That process requires a person to understand at least dozen seemingly unrelated disciplines on at least intermediate level. In a society where you get essentially 0 external reward for going through that life-long process, it's understandable (and sad) we won't get many Bachs.
Is it even possible to dumb down, "computers that computer themselves". "Mathematics is the domain of all languages, even the spoken ones", " in a finite universe pi *must* have a last digit" etc. If anyone can, please help a brother out By recontextualizing.
Bach is an amazing thinker, I wish I could "see the matrix" like he does for just one day. And still he's able to clearly communicate even the most complex things. Yes, it is demanding to follow him, but that only makes me dig deeper into the subject on my own. That imho is science at its best!
I am not sure where he is going with this...it appears that he wishes to leave intelligence to cybernetic life to take over from biological life...but without consciousness is there a point to this?
@@bradmodd7856 I don't think it's what he wishes, but rather what he predicts will happen... the way person predicts that a ball thrown up into the air, will slow and fall down to the ground.
@@squarerootof2 Congratulations, you understood Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Have fun with the remaining 2,300 years of philosophy history. Let's talk again when you get to Nietzsche.
The most intelligent person I’ve ever heard. I like his paraphrase "AI is like sex: sometimes something useful comes from it ... but it is not why we do it." [2:06:12], and his definition of Ethics [1:45:45]. Excellent explanation of consciousness just in a few minutes [55:34].
Joscha on similarity between Art and Science : "I find that most people serve practical needs. They have an understanding of the difference between meaning and relevance. And at some level my mind is more interested in meaning than in relevance. That is similar to the mind of an artist. The arts are not life. They are not serving life. The arts are the cuckoo child of life. Because the meaning of life is to eat. You know, life is evolution and evolution is about eating. It's pretty gross if you think about it. Evolution is about getting eaten by monsters. Don't go into the desert and perish there, because it's going to be a waste. If you're lucky the monsters that eat you are your own children. And eventually the search for evolution will, if evolution reaches its global optimum, it will be the perfect devourer. The thing that is able to digest anything and turn it into structure to sustain and perpetuate itself, for long as the local puddle of negentropy is available. And in a way we are yeast. Everything we do, all the complexity that we create, all the structures we build, is to erect some surfaces on which to out compete other kinds of yeast. And if you realize this you can try to get behind this and I think the solution to this is fascism. Fascism is a mode of organization of society in which the individual is a cell in the superorganism and the value of the individual is exactly the contribution to the superorganism. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. And it's totally brutal. I don't like fascism because it's going to kill a lot of minds I like. And the arts is slightly different. It's a mutation that is arguably not completely adaptive. It's one where people fall in love with the loss function. Where you think that your mental representation is the intrinsically important thing. That you try to capture a conscious state for its own sake, because you think that matters. The true artist in my view is somebody who captures conscious states and that's the only reason why they eat. So you eat to make art. And another person makes art to eat. And these are of course the ends of a spectrum and the truth is often somewhere in the middle, but in a way there is this fundamental distinction. And there are in some sense the true scientists which are trying to figure out something about the universe. They are trying to reflect it. And it's an artistic process in a way. It's an attempt to be a reflection to this universe. You see there is this amazing vast darkness which is the universe. There's all these iterations of patterns, but mostly there is nothing interesting happening in these patterns. It's a giant fractal and most of it is just boring. And at a brief moment in the evolution of the universe there are planetary surfaces and negentropy gradients that allow for the creation of structure and then there are some brief flashes of consciousness in all this vast darkness. And these brief flashes of consciousness can reflect the universe and maybe even figure out what it is. It's the only chance that we have. Right? This is amazing. Why not do this? Life is short. This is the thing we can do. "
From the beginning to the end, so interesting; and touching so many thoughts, problems, words and definitions that I have to fight to with and came up in my (working) life. I am working and (try my best to) be a social (and psychological oriented) researcher. But thinking about AI and intelligence (models) and consciousness have to catch our interest and opens new opportunities for the social field much more often, than most of the researchers in my surroundings want to admit. Hopeful to hear Mr. Bach once in "real life". He is amazing.
Since the first time i heard this fox (Joshua), i feel like teens attracted to the Beatles back in the 60's... He is like a fountain of extremely relevant answers. Salute 🤯
I found myself having to rewind for 30 seconds at the juicer sections to allow my slower processor to keep up. Huh. I had thought I was pretty smart. At least when the singularity occurs, we'll all be equally dumb. For a nano second. Then yeast.
yeast makes bread rise - the singularity has already occurred, where do you think you get your thoughts from? And how handy for a virus to halt movement in order to conserve energy...
1:47:42 “To me, meaning is like the Ring of Mordor; you have to carry it. If you drop the ring, you will lose the brotherhood (fellowship) of the ring, and you will lose your mission. (So) you have to carry it, but very lightly. If you put it on, you will get super powers, but you get corrupted because (really) there is no meaning, and you (will) get drawn into a cult which you (also) create…” Came back to this just to find this absolute gem of a quote
Joscha....I love you I'm so grateful to have found you I feel like your my brother who's out there to explain me to others I am not a scholar but I have experienced so much of what it is u talk about and I find myself saying yep exactly that's exactly right when I listen to you it gives me so much peace and makes me feel like no I'm not crazy thank you thank you my heart and my soul thanks you your a valued treasured that I found....muah muah...sincerely thank you
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
Excellent interview! Josha is a shining star in intellectual pursuit and command of language. Remarkable man. You kept up with him all the way, coaxed ever more insights from him, thanks! Easy subscription to your channel, for me..
IVE BEEN THINKING THIS!! it seems to me like both Krishnamurtis still provide some of the most important perspectives and understandings of life that are immediately accessible, especially as we go into this future :)
Facing our Mortality brings us full circle. I feel fortunate to have lived; what a gift life is. Think about it. I am not Christian, nor am I Buddhist. I am myself.
Tap the three-dot menu to slow playback speed and turn on captions; double-tap or more on the left side of the video to jump back 10 or more seconds. (... get a good night's sleep then hydrate and replenish electrolytes before listening 😉)
I know it is a dangerous path I am taking but I do not understand his rejection of fascism in pure pragmatic way. he stated that the value of the cell is exactly his contribution to the superorganism. this makes sense. and it is logical, that the superorganism eliminates those cells with a negative impact. this is rational for the long-run survival of the superorganism - which is the only purpose of the superorganism. if that is fascism, then fascism is the way to survive and the best mechanism. off course you can not like this. I also don't like that whole life is about eating or getting eaten. but this does not change the necessity. Joscha Bach is the most brilliant mind I ever listened to. What do I get wrong? Is this really a pure subjective preference statement of him? Becasue his arguments make fascism more plausible to me. (please to not confuse with historical ideological fascism.)
Wait - where are cows being treated kindly??? Gimme a break - WE are the evil upon the earth - even AI won’t be as evil as humans - BRING ON THE ROBOTS 🤖
Haha! Two years later I read this & was about to like it & then see that I wrote it! - lol - annnddd no one else agreed w/me - oh well, I’m used to that!
So frustrating that in our world a binary mind is more appreciated than a holistic one. An evolving society would value it's scientists, philosophers and artists to the same degree that this dying world values military leaders, financiers and politicians. Instead, these wealthy idiots get the keys to life and death for others, in reward for making decisions that a sociopathic child could make.
i became very nihilistic upon listening to bach's thoughts at length, and coming to a sort of culmination of a narrative with his helpful guidance, though i think some unnerving clues were leading me there regardless. I am enriched by, yet fear the hexagons. I am the hexagons.
That was such a disarming and honest moment when you expressed your feeling of being a goldfish in the wake of Mr. Bach's cognitive outpourings. I have the same feeling. One question I have is - has anyone observed or verified the profound powers of his intellect ? What I mean is, for example, has he made any major breakthroughs in a particular field ? Or is he "just" extremely well informed and insightful and articulate with an ability to compose profound conjectures.
Yes, I want an interviewer to stop him and ask "You're obviously extremely smart and well-informed. What are you going to DO with your life, beyond effortlessly dropping insight bombs every 30 seconds in interviews that leave listeners slack-jawed and pressing the rewind button to process what you just said?"
@@skierpage Exactly. I mean that is an impressive skill, yes. Blows us all away but I am very curious if that skill translates into the ability to make some breakthrough scientific or engineering contribution. I sure hope so ! The guy is so impressive, maybe he could save the world.
He doesn’t understand the maths higher levels like most cuz its impossible its axioms become unclear, just think to yourself if you understand math to the point where you can recreate it
The flaw with this view is that artists and others who work outside of the world of rationality and information do not make models. They play with ideas, often aimlessly, until something emerges from their play that meets a certain criterion of beauty, astonishment, rigor, or whatever it is they deem of sufficient aesthetic quality to release into the world and be taken in by others. Their work is not meant to function as a model or paradigm, it is simply a singularity of vision that is put on display without any pretense to utility, guidance or goal.
As nerdy and awesome as this interview comes accross, I struggle with the confidence with which this man speaks. Everything just "is" this or a that, without a shadow of doubt. How can anyone know all this, and not just suspect it?
37:00 for 100 years we burned through fossil fuels from deposits that only existed because nature hasn't evolved microrganisms to eat the trees,in order to give everyone plumbing and grow from 400M to 8B
''on my god, aren't we lucky!'' REALITY CHECK: -who are ''WE''? top 1%? non gentile university professor doctors? Idle youtube webloggers? SO I ASK WHO IS THIS LUCKY END OF THE PARTY FINAL LEVEL TITANIC SIMULATOR WE?
36:29 onwards, so moving. “In this universe humanity has just doomed its planet to have couple of hundred really really good years, and you get your lifetime close to the end of the party. ... If you take this as a computer game metaphor, this is like the best level for humanity to play in. And this best level happens to be the last level for humanity to play, as it happens against the backdrop of a dying world. But it's still the best level.”
We are mathematical beings constantly striving to better our system So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
Thank you Nikola for this nice interview. I enjoyed this one very much and I learned a lot. This was one of the few interviews where the guest was talking about the field of research so that it makes sense to me. I am looking forward for a next interview with this brilliant guy. Many of other guests talk more like evangelists and salesman than like scientists.
My brain is on fire - in a good way! Call it a dopamine and serotonin blast delivered from the stimulating conversation. I wonder what Joscha thinks about AI merging with human consciousness or perhaps what he would consider "self"?
Amazing interview and thoughts. I had a few nitpicks on things that didn't make sense to me. Removing CO2 from the atmosphere should be doable. Especially if solar panels and nuclear fusion continue to progress. The ability of the world to gather energy from the sun and fusion would dwarf our current energy production, so the removal of that energy (produced from CO2) would be a small percentage of future energy potential. And today there is still an excess of food which is why there are so many obese people, even in some poorer countries. I still think humanity's greatest challenge will be keeping up evolutionarily with AI or merging with AI to avoid the "AI vs humans" issue. Or the fact that we are an inherently violent species with a tendency to create increasingly advanced technologies which include some increasingly destructive technologies, and this means that the risk of humanity causing its own self-destruction increases rapidly. Today, right now, we have people carrying out mass shootings with primitive ballistic guns. Is a surveillance state enough to curtail much more advanced and destructive technology from reaching widespread use by the masses in the future? I think this and AI are more likely issues than global warming.
A musket is a primitive ballistic weapon. And AR-15 or a glock 9 is a state of the art killing tool. Unless you think they should be using light sabers I don't know what an advanced weapon would be to you. Also, obesity is a much more complex issue than an abundance of food, with genetic, social, cultural and economic variables amalgamating to form a very complex problem; though I'm not sure why you mentioned it at the end of your paragraph about energy production... like if we made less food we'd need less energy, and also 'cure' the fat people? I dunno I'm kinda triggered lol
The problem with CO2 is timing. Yes eventually we could reduce atmospheric CO2, but even if we get net CO2 to zero by 2050 (and there's no sign of that happening) we will have already warmed Earth by 1.6+°C, melted the ice caps and the permafrost, reduced plant CO2 uptake with heat and droughts, ... also acidified the ocean and made millions of species extinct and other bad add-on effects. Throwing these into reverse will be a centuries-long project, and warning will continue for much of it. 😢.
I appreciate the host's analysis of the academic industrial complex, which is, after 3 decades, very authoritarian, with pockets of freedom, in pockets of time. Tenure schmenure.
I just worry I guess that we might not like the answer and once realized in the culture could lead to the end of humanity or to a humanity none of us in the present day would want. A recent hypothesis is that life's true purpose and meaning is to accelerate the process of entropy ( disorder or chaos)...paradoxically it takes organized entities ...life...to accomplish this efficiently. For example the details if a meteor crater are preserved for a billion years on the lifeless moon yet on earth the flora and fauna largely destroy most of its information content over relatively short times. Intelligence appears to up the ante on the creation of this disorder...human pollution. If via AI we come to a full cultural or philosophical understanding of how to maximize such a purpose...it leaves us with two choices.. One basically becoming Satan's demons (figuratively) and use our superintelligence to optimizing the generation of chaos ....perhaps produce another great Bootes void of maximal entropy expanding at the speed of light in this sector of the universe....or alternatively species suicide to preserve the remaining order. It is possible there is no realistic star trek future...were the end if this road unless we want to destroy anymore.
1:02:21 - Makes sense to me. So any being with a brain creates a simulacrum of a self. Sure. Now what about the will to live and the pain associated with losing life, or threatening that consciousness of being? It could well be that other "subjects of a life", other simulacrums of beings, other consciousnesses, have a greater will to live, and experience greater pain when endangered, tortured, or killed. Back to moral philosophy again... Kant was right - The only unqualified good is a good will. I'll add: the only harm is grievous pain inflicted on a "subject of a life" - i.e deprivation of living, failing to "let live", or ill will.
I’ve never looked into AI because I thought it was about robots. But I have had a spiritual awakening, then his Interview with Lex Friedman introduced me to Joscha and I was listening and was like , why is this guy on an AI podcast because what he is saying is a self evident truth Ive realized as well and I was like oh, cause of that robot book cover, haha. Now listening to Joscha, of course what we are AI, or MAYA. And how lucky I get to have him as my guide to understanding through deconstructing Consciousness, my experience and where I’m making errors as well!!!
Just before and around 36:00 he's saying that individuals are smarter than generations, but then inverse the trend, when he says civilizations are smarter than generations. We're certainly in a doozie of a civilization now, as he pointed out; the cult won.
What you believe, becomes true for you...as man thinks & believe so it will be.The mind is a computer, but we have infinite choices. See the world as One. Ich lasse mich nicht erspressen!
About the last part of the discussion related to suffering, I remember a video I seen a few years ago with a treatment for depression where an electrode was inserted in a specific part of the brain responsible with mood and they used a dial to see the level of happiness / suffering and you can see how face expression was changing in real time on the woman that had the procedure and they where testing what sort of level to set. We are biological machines and nothing more than that. Joscha was using a combination of languages English some C++ and a bit of math :), thus it was a bit hard to understand if you did not had the same vocabulary but it was an efficient way to express ideas for those that speak the same language.
36:44 - That's right, we, as a Cultural Meatheadist species, are nonviable. We are meatheads. But, no worries, the universe loves diversurdity - and we contribute immensely to the absurdity part of it, while screwing up the diversity part of it - so this failed experiment called humanity might in the end be slightly net positive in entertainment value for the universe. 😁
1:31:10 - Now we are getting somewhere! Well said Nikola ! - His response is self-serving BS. He puts a value on denial (we are great at denial!) and calls it "Aufklärung" or "Erleuchtung" - enlightenment, and those that don't have it, this denial, are immature. He is immature. He needs to do sports and take himself to the edge of tolerable pain. Then have someone push him over that edge, to "Existenzangst", existential anguish. Then he will understand the reality of suffering - and maybe stop denying that he causes it in others. He is a Cultural Meathead after all. 😁 PS: His cat example is absurd. The variety of their "states of feeling fine" among individuals is as varied as ours. PPS: Nikola killed him with his ethics questions and arguments. He is saying Nikola's argument is absolutist - which it is not. Nikola is a gentleman.
You are not listening and neither was Nikola for good 20 minutes while on point of ethics. That is why he asked the same question 3 times. After the third time, Joscha essentially explains that Nikola's axiomatic approach to ethics (NOT absolutist!) prevents him to understand Joscha's initial premise. Being unable to grasp Jocha's explanation, Nikola asks, also for the third time - what about the cows. As if answering that in the way that is understandable to everyone would somehow end the debate on necessity of implementation of ethics. I'm unaware how is it even possible to twist Bach's meaning so much with the way he formulates sentences. Then, again missing out on context completely is seemingly completely justified to determine someone's need for existential anguish. .
Being isolated in childhood appears to encourage creativity, There is Mr Bach here, Charles Dickens, the Brontes, Margaret Atwood and likely many others. In contrast, being programmed in early childhood produces herd-like behavior.
2:30 Who is Joscha Bach? It depends who's asking. Haha great answer I particularly like the literal reading of this... A contextual reading would suggest that how Joscha describes himself depends what the asker seems likely to comprehend. The answer to a 5-year-old will be different than the answer to a computer scientist with 20 years experience in AI, for example. Read literally though, Joscha is a different person presenting himself in those two situations, different elements and qualities are available in those two cases, comprising a different "who". I sort of doubt this is what he meant, but I like the idea
I for one am privileged to witness a person like this in my lifetime expounding on his life's work. Thanks to this amazing invention called the internet. Awe struck. Only other person I've heard speak like this is S. Pinker.
I haven’t watched yet, but I hope he realizes we’re also AI. Our brains are the mother board of our bodies. Our bodies are biological machines carrying our consciousness. We create AI because we are AI.
1:32:52 about being an adult, emotions and suffering and controlling your reward functions 1:39:41 What about ethics? - Existence is neutral. Why are there so few Stoics? (Aside from cats.) - The human is the animal that is discontent, which is useful for a group species, because the wellbeing of the individual can be sacrificed for the wellbeing of the group: individuals overextend themselves for the benefit of the group. 1:42:40 Humans cause a mass extinction event, because we outcompete all the other species. - Ethics is about discovering the long game. 1:44:26 Snarky comments about the abuse of "Ethics" in the academical arena, and discussions about trolley problems that should be considered about as hypothetical (and useful) as discussions about Minotaurs in Labyrinths vs public forests 1:45:48 What is ethics? "Ethics is the principled negotiation of conflicts of interest under conditions of shared purpose." - Flipping bits in your mind to understand who the other one is. 1:46:41 Q: Where / How do the cows fit in? Can you have shared purpose with them? - A: Shared purpose does not objectively exist. You project a shared meaning above the level of your Ego. (With Ego being the function that integrates expected rewards over the next 50 years.) 1:47:07 Eternalists (The romantic Russian Jews / The Eastern European shape of the Soul): Integrating rewards from here to infinity (with expected rewards in the great beyond) leading to weird things: Shared meaning is non-transactional and thus happens also to be useful for tribes and corporations. "But there's a certain kind of illusion in it: to me meaning is like the Ring of Mordor. - You have to carry it. If you drop it, you lose the Brotherhood and you lose your mission. You have to carry it very lightly! If you put it on, you get super powers, but you get corrupted, because there IS no meaning: You get drawn into a cult that You create! - And I don't want to do that, because it's going to shackle my mind in a way I don't want it to be bound!" 1:48:35 Paraphrasing here: Q: How do we define ethics in a way that the Robots will treat us (ethically) as we should treat cows? - A: That's not how this works. Asimov got it wrong. We will not be able to negotiate from a position of slave-owners. - "We will not live next to it (AI), we will live inside of it."
1:04:05 some people think that a self can't be conscious only a physical system can be conscious. They've got it completely backwards. Consciousness is a simulated property of a simulated self
20:00 The strength of your beliefs must equal the weight of the evidence, and you must apply this recursively All the way down. Belief is no longer a verb, but a self-contained mathematical system
The Catholic Church, the fathers, understood transubstantiation. They knew in a medieval age it was beyond comprehension so they symbolized it in the Mass. We are now moving towards a quantum age but transubstantiation like consciousness is beyond the comprehension of most people, no matter how smart they think they are. ‘ So don’t put down the Catholic Church. Protestantism emphasizes reason. Reason is the feather on top of the volcano, it is useful but in no way is it fundamental. First consciousness, then mind, then reason whose purpose is to negotiate between thought and feeling. Reason is a function, the Western mind has turned it in a Deity, which is problematic, and hopefully won’t turn out to be a total disaster.
What an amazing interview. Joscha repeatedly spoke to my most cherished conclusions of decades of thinking about some of these things. Really incredible, his brilliance has a crystalizing property, a transparent consistency that leaves me breathless, i can tell he is giving me months of homework
The problem with philosophy today is that it has been reduced to materialism. Darwin being the last great philosopher? The ancient philosophers must be turning in their graves. It is difficult to be a philosopher in an age where consciousness is ‘the hard problem,’ is not understood and life, consciousness, mind began in a muddy pond somewhere. We are in a material age and consequently matter is the limit of what many are capable of comprehending.
Who would think that in a urban city there's anything redeeming but there is there is beauty everywhere in what man has made and he made it for us and I see it everywhere I'm the luckiest girl alive to see the love in everything man has made it's a gift to be able to meet an architect and look at a building and I can see what they thought no one ever would they become speechless ....but this machinery is inspirited I have a thing for cranes lol there the beautiful birds of equipment that reach the heights of mans imagination...art and philosophy makes us use our imagination....and that is stimulating!!!! Hee hee
There is so much wrong with what this guy is saying. Cosmic Consciousness an illusion? So much is incorrect here, totally wrong, it should come with a warning label.
1:30:00 ethics becomes very difficult to discuss once the reward function becomes mutable. When you're able to change what it is important to you, what you care about, then how do you define ethics
3:07 It makes sense why people treat expert or talking head views like gospel when there is an understanding of cultural and systemic indoctrination that doesn’t teach or encourage questioning or critical thinking. Curiosity is largely taught. It’s not something fully fostered individually with no encouraging support.
1:03:47 there are two types of learning one you generalize from existing models and you call that prejudice when you're in a bad mood. And the other is someone tells you what to think
2:04:02 psychology as a field failed when it became terrified of overfitting, it stopped making theories of the mind as a whole and made theories with very few parameters so that it could do experiments
31:00 so in a way the beginning of the cathedral that had been built by the Greeks and the Romans had been burn down and then rebuilt by the Catholics, but mostly in their likeness because they didn't get the foundations right, and that left scars in our epistemology that have not healed
Yeah. When we understand astro turf we will understand grass. I don’t think so. If it takes the artificial to understand the real, then we are in an even worse place than we thought we were in..
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Joscha Bach is a promising evidence that our species is evolving.
Or perhaps his rarity is evidence of the opposite.
Maybe If most women found him desirable and wanted his babies. Unfortunately sexual selection seems to outweigh everything else.
@@samsonslmpson1986 Actually, intelligence is perceived as an attractive trait in men.
@Wretch Gunk He does, but that doesn't mean most women find him as the ideal. Look at Isaac Newton and Nietzsche, both died without ever procreating, huge waste of genetic potential.
His personal views are that we are pretty close to self-destruction. He is actually a pessimistic realist.
The 19k views are 1k people watching this 19 times each to try to understand the intelligence of Joscha Bach.
hahahaha ;-)
Facts.
Fair enough
Likewise!😍
I've found about Joscha in Lex podcast. He is gold.
I think that's a popular outcome. I became a disciple immediately and have not heard him say much to make me change my mind. An excellent mind, and perhaps more excitingly, an excellent and self-aware mind.
Me too. So natural and wise. Great rolemodel for science and spirituality blend.
Same.
I wish he had his own podcast!! Where can we get more of Joscha??
Also, I would love a whole list of book recommendations. It's unbelievable the conclusions this man reaches and the clarity in his ideas and his thought process.
@@rohlay00 You can follow him on twitter
If he isn't the smartest guy on Earth, then he's among the small group of people who could be.
The more interviews of Joscha, the better. Listening to him expands my mind in a good way.
rate quilibrium constant rate constant of reaction k equal s a e 0 Ea/RT units/ arrow increaswes with concentration a t equal temp the transition state hasgreater energy than both reactants and products
change is in pressure volume increase pressure vhsnhg er in pressure volume increase pressurechange in pressure volume increase pressure
He has a humble bookshelf for his zoom background
He's pretty much saying what we've always known, we are creating our story, and you can pretty much do anything you want with the right attitude towards it. He's just breaking down the mathematics of it
Humble honest bookshelf
Joscha spontaneously tapping on the video camera lens during the goldfish analogy was the highlight of this weblog.
And is was within secs, really amazing ;-)
His genius clearly extends in to comedy
hes so good
The Comedic timing is impeccable😁
I been into podcasts and clever people for year been listening for Bret Weinstein, Sam Harris, Noam Chomsky, Jordan Peterson. But Joscha Bach is just on another level, I feel like I were listening to idiots(even though they certainty not) this a whole time.
I feel you.
The reason you feel like "a goldfish" when talking to Joscha is because he doesn't attempt to dumb down his responses to your level like most other popular intellectuals and academics would. Most intelligent people have a "filter" when talking to people outside their domain of expertise which is a social crutch that makes them seem more understandable. Incidentally, Joscha was absolutely right when he started to respond your goldfish comment by saying "this is my fault...". He recognized the issue very clearly, but this is part of his personality and what makes him a valuable thinker - he says exactly what he means with no dumbing down.
Oh man I discovered him by watching his recent interview with Lex Fridman. It was amazing to watch him almost interrupt Lex's question because he didn't need the sentence to be finished... it was almost tedious to him. Somehow it wasn't snobby but charming. He was also funny and witty. In this interview you can watch the interviewer talking for a long time and watch Bach's eyes darting around as his brain processes what I imagine to be a million responses, sorting them, categorizing them, condensing them, preparing them for the audience. The scary thing? I think this IS dumbed down... it's as simple as he can go, haha. What was his fault, was how he underestimated the goldfish threshold of the particular audience in the particular moment of time.
25:43
Joshua is just a master of optimizing and contextualizing his "output". Whatever the question, he seems to already have worked on answering it for himself, and it really shows. That process requires a person to understand at least dozen seemingly unrelated disciplines on at least intermediate level. In a society where you get essentially 0 external reward for going through that life-long process, it's understandable (and sad) we won't get many Bachs.
Is it even possible to dumb down, "computers that computer themselves". "Mathematics is the domain of all languages, even the spoken ones", " in a finite universe pi *must* have a last digit" etc.
If anyone can, please help a brother out By recontextualizing.
We dont know that hes not dumbing down. This could be him on 6.
Bach is an amazing thinker, I wish I could "see the matrix" like he does for just one day. And still he's able to clearly communicate even the most complex things. Yes, it is demanding to follow him, but that only makes me dig deeper into the subject on my own. That imho is science at its best!
I am not sure where he is going with this...it appears that he wishes to leave intelligence to cybernetic life to take over from biological life...but without consciousness is there a point to this?
@@bradmodd7856 I don't think it's what he wishes, but rather what he predicts will happen... the way person predicts that a ball thrown up into the air, will slow and fall down to the ground.
Zippy Leroux Wonderful analogy friend!👍🏽
There is no Matrix. The illusions are our own delusions. We are the ones who dream, no one is deceiving us but we ourselves.
@@squarerootof2 Congratulations, you understood Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Have fun with the remaining 2,300 years of philosophy history. Let's talk again when you get to Nietzsche.
The most intelligent person I’ve ever heard. I like his paraphrase "AI is like sex: sometimes something useful comes from it ... but it is not why we do it." [2:06:12], and his definition of Ethics [1:45:45]. Excellent explanation of consciousness just in a few minutes [55:34].
That quote is Feynman's..
Joscha on similarity between Art and Science
: "I find that most people serve practical needs. They have an understanding of the difference between meaning and relevance. And at some level my mind is more interested in meaning than in relevance. That is similar to the mind of an artist. The arts are not life. They are not serving life. The arts are the cuckoo child of life. Because the meaning of life is to eat. You know, life is evolution and evolution is about eating. It's pretty gross if you think about it. Evolution is about getting eaten by monsters. Don't go into the desert and perish there, because it's going to be a waste. If you're lucky the monsters that eat you are your own children. And eventually the search for evolution will, if evolution reaches its global optimum, it will be the perfect devourer. The thing that is able to digest anything and turn it into structure to sustain and perpetuate itself, for long as the local puddle of negentropy is available.
And in a way we are yeast. Everything we do, all the complexity that we create, all the structures we build, is to erect some surfaces on which to out compete other kinds of yeast. And if you realize this you can try to get behind this and I think the solution to this is fascism. Fascism is a mode of organization of society in which the individual is a cell in the superorganism and the value of the individual is exactly the contribution to the superorganism. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. And it's totally brutal. I don't like fascism because it's going to kill a lot of minds I like.
And the arts is slightly different. It's a mutation that is arguably not completely adaptive. It's one where people fall in love with the loss function. Where you think that your mental representation is the intrinsically important thing. That you try to capture a conscious state for its own sake, because you think that matters. The true artist in my view is somebody who captures conscious states and that's the only reason why they eat. So you eat to make art. And another person makes art to eat. And these are of course the ends of a spectrum and the truth is often somewhere in the middle, but in a way there is this fundamental distinction.
And there are in some sense the true scientists which are trying to figure out something about the universe. They are trying to reflect it. And it's an artistic process in a way. It's an attempt to be a reflection to this universe. You see there is this amazing vast darkness which is the universe. There's all these iterations of patterns, but mostly there is nothing interesting happening in these patterns. It's a giant fractal and most of it is just boring. And at a brief moment in the evolution of the universe there are planetary surfaces and negentropy gradients that allow for the creation of structure and then there are some brief flashes of consciousness in all this vast darkness. And these brief flashes of consciousness can reflect the universe and maybe even figure out what it is. It's the only chance that we have. Right? This is amazing. Why not do this? Life is short. This is the thing we can do.
"
Thank you for capturing this!
“I’m an antinatalist but my kids are not” 🤣
Amazing talk. Never seen such a deep complex ideas being presented so clearly.
From the beginning to the end, so interesting; and touching so many thoughts, problems, words and definitions that I have to fight to with and came up in my (working) life. I am working and (try my best to) be a social (and psychological oriented) researcher. But thinking about AI and intelligence (models) and consciousness have to catch our interest and opens new opportunities for the social field much more often, than most of the researchers in my surroundings want to admit.
Hopeful to hear Mr. Bach once in "real life". He is amazing.
Since the first time i heard this fox (Joshua), i feel like teens attracted to the Beatles back in the 60's...
He is like a fountain of extremely relevant answers.
Salute 🤯
I found myself having to rewind for 30 seconds at the juicer sections to allow my slower processor to keep up. Huh. I had thought I was pretty smart. At least when the singularity occurs, we'll all be equally dumb. For a nano second. Then yeast.
yeast makes bread rise - the singularity has already occurred, where do you think you get your thoughts from? And how handy for a virus to halt movement in order to conserve energy...
@@martinpopplewell8899 interesting. I've always wondered where thoughts and ideas come from. What's your explanation?
Wave function vibrations that solve problems - attracted to an observer by gravity...
@@martinpopplewell8899 so why do some people get more ideas than others and why aren't ideas unique to an individual?
ovoj there unique to your experience
When he said the meaning of life is "to eat"... I laughed out loud and cried with relief
1:47:42
“To me, meaning is like the Ring of Mordor; you have to carry it.
If you drop the ring, you will lose the brotherhood (fellowship) of the ring, and you will lose your mission.
(So) you have to carry it, but very lightly.
If you put it on, you will get super powers, but you get corrupted because (really) there is no meaning, and you (will) get drawn into a cult which you (also) create…”
Came back to this just to find this absolute gem of a quote
Yes, indeed, what a find. Thank you for highlighting it for us all ;-)
Joscha....I love you I'm so grateful to have found you I feel like your my brother who's out there to explain me to others I am not a scholar but I have experienced so much of what it is u talk about and I find myself saying yep exactly that's exactly right when I listen to you it gives me so much peace and makes me feel like no I'm not crazy thank you thank you my heart and my soul thanks you your a valued treasured that I found....muah muah...sincerely thank you
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
Excellent interview! Josha is a shining star in intellectual pursuit and command of language. Remarkable man. You kept up with him all the way, coaxed ever more insights from him, thanks! Easy subscription to your channel, for me..
I like the way the host did not interrupt the speaker and got the best out of him. I hope we get access to more brilliant minds.
Dr. Bach is the U.G. Krishnamurti of AI. :-) Very interesting talk. Thanks.
IVE BEEN THINKING THIS!!
it seems to me like both Krishnamurtis still provide some of the most important perspectives and understandings of life that are immediately accessible, especially as we go into this future :)
Facing our Mortality brings us full circle. I feel fortunate to have lived; what a gift life is. Think about it.
I am not Christian, nor am I Buddhist. I am myself.
Joscha for President of the Miky Way !
50% of what Bach says goes over my head! I will have to listen to it few times before I can make sense of much of what he saying.
Tap the three-dot menu to slow playback speed and turn on captions; double-tap or more on the left side of the video to jump back 10 or more seconds. (... get a good night's sleep then hydrate and replenish electrolytes before listening 😉)
skierpage is that how you maximize your potential for memory retention or just helps you focus and relaxed
Absolutely best interview with Joscha, and I watched most of them. You definitely nailed it as an interviewer.
Thank you. I always try my best but it sure helps that we have good chemistry with Joscha and enjoy our conversations ;-)
I don’t understand most of what this genius is saying but I love trying to learn.
I know it is a dangerous path I am taking but I do not understand his rejection of fascism in pure pragmatic way. he stated that the value of the cell is exactly his contribution to the superorganism. this makes sense. and it is logical, that the superorganism eliminates those cells with a negative impact. this is rational for the long-run survival of the superorganism - which is the only purpose of the superorganism. if that is fascism, then fascism is the way to survive and the best mechanism. off course you can not like this. I also don't like that whole life is about eating or getting eaten. but this does not change the necessity.
Joscha Bach is the most brilliant mind I ever listened to. What do I get wrong? Is this really a pure subjective preference statement of him? Becasue his arguments make fascism more plausible to me. (please to not confuse with historical ideological fascism.)
That gold-fish moment at 22:50 is just a stellar display of the man's sense of connections he's able to patch up on the fly.
Spectacle.
Joscha Bach i love you deeply :)
Wait - where are cows being treated kindly??? Gimme a break - WE are the evil upon the earth - even AI won’t be as evil as humans - BRING ON THE ROBOTS 🤖
Haha! Two years later I read this & was about to like it & then see that I wrote it! - lol - annnddd no one else agreed w/me - oh well, I’m used to that!
I eat to make art. My life would be perfect if I didn't have to do any commercial art and just make my own art my whole life.
So frustrating that in our world a binary mind is more appreciated than a holistic one. An evolving society would value it's scientists, philosophers and artists to the same degree that this dying world values military leaders, financiers and politicians. Instead, these wealthy idiots get the keys to life and death for others, in reward for making decisions that a sociopathic child could make.
one of the best interviews on Your channel. Thank You!
i became very nihilistic upon listening to bach's thoughts at length, and coming to a sort of culmination of a narrative with his helpful guidance, though i think some unnerving clues were leading me there regardless. I am enriched by, yet fear the hexagons. I am the hexagons.
Joscha Bach solved Rubik's cube of knowledge.
That was such a disarming and honest moment when you expressed your feeling of being a goldfish in the wake of Mr. Bach's cognitive outpourings. I have the same feeling. One question I have is - has anyone observed or verified the profound powers of his intellect ? What I mean is, for example, has he made any major breakthroughs in a particular field ? Or is he "just" extremely well informed and insightful and articulate with an ability to compose profound conjectures.
That is a very good question.
Yes, I want an interviewer to stop him and ask "You're obviously extremely smart and well-informed. What are you going to DO with your life, beyond effortlessly dropping insight bombs every 30 seconds in interviews that leave listeners slack-jawed and pressing the rewind button to process what you just said?"
@@skierpage Exactly. I mean that is an impressive skill, yes. Blows us all away but I am very curious if that skill translates into the ability to make some breakthrough scientific or engineering contribution. I sure hope so ! The guy is so impressive, maybe he could save the world.
He doesn’t understand the maths higher levels like most cuz its impossible its axioms become unclear, just think to yourself if you understand math to the point where you can recreate it
Of course he does. Here you have a list of his publications: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joscha_Bach#Publications
The flaw with this view is that artists and others who work outside of the world of rationality and information do not make models. They play with ideas, often aimlessly, until something emerges from their play that meets a certain criterion of beauty, astonishment, rigor, or whatever it is they deem of sufficient aesthetic quality to release into the world and be taken in by others. Their work is not meant to function as a model or paradigm, it is simply a singularity of vision that is put on display without any pretense to utility, guidance or goal.
I am an automaton who independently needed to change my settings from regular playback to .75 to follow what automaton Joscha is saying.
hahahaha, good one my friend ;-)
As nerdy and awesome as this interview comes accross, I struggle with the confidence with which this man speaks. Everything just "is" this or a that, without a shadow of doubt. How can anyone know all this, and not just suspect it?
This is his life live yours take what you can or want and expand or indulge or review and be smarter than him thats the only way
Just be
hes just a really smart and intelligent independent thinker
37:00 for 100 years we burned through fossil fuels from deposits that only existed because nature hasn't evolved microrganisms to eat the trees,in order to give everyone plumbing and grow from 400M to 8B
A great thinker, but lacking one fundamental element. Wisdom.
There is no wisdom.
Only what is
''on my god, aren't we lucky!''
REALITY CHECK:
-who are ''WE''? top 1%? non gentile university professor doctors? Idle youtube webloggers?
SO I ASK WHO IS THIS LUCKY END OF THE PARTY FINAL LEVEL TITANIC SIMULATOR WE?
36:29 onwards, so moving.
“In this universe humanity has just doomed its planet to have couple of hundred really really good years, and you get your lifetime close to the end of the party. ... If you take this as a computer game metaphor, this is like the best level for humanity to play in. And this best level happens to be the last level for humanity to play, as it happens against the backdrop of a dying world. But it's still the best level.”
We are mathematical beings constantly striving to better our system
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
58:03 "Our perception goes towards coherence. It tries to find one operator which is completely coherent"
Thank you Nikola for this nice interview. I enjoyed this one very much and I learned a lot. This was one of the few interviews where the guest was talking about the field of research so that it makes sense to me. I am looking forward for a next interview with this brilliant guy. Many of other guests talk more like evangelists and salesman than like scientists.
My brain is on fire - in a good way! Call it a dopamine and serotonin blast delivered from the stimulating conversation. I wonder what Joscha thinks about AI merging with human consciousness or perhaps what he would consider "self"?
fantastic interview
I'm glad to have found this channel, lots of interesting thoughts and perspectives
Joscha is an amazing thinker, I only wish he'd use a few more metaphors and analogies to make his ideas clearer lol
This is a MAD MAD GUY...... Nikola only 5 interview of 2 hours each and then we can START comprehending this guy......
17.28 Philosophy as a field on enquiry is practically dead.....how true
Amazing interview and thoughts. I had a few nitpicks on things that didn't make sense to me. Removing CO2 from the atmosphere should be doable. Especially if solar panels and nuclear fusion continue to progress. The ability of the world to gather energy from the sun and fusion would dwarf our current energy production, so the removal of that energy (produced from CO2) would be a small percentage of future energy potential. And today there is still an excess of food which is why there are so many obese people, even in some poorer countries.
I still think humanity's greatest challenge will be keeping up evolutionarily with AI or merging with AI to avoid the "AI vs humans" issue. Or the fact that we are an inherently violent species with a tendency to create increasingly advanced technologies which include some increasingly destructive technologies, and this means that the risk of humanity causing its own self-destruction increases rapidly. Today, right now, we have people carrying out mass shootings with primitive ballistic guns. Is a surveillance state enough to curtail much more advanced and destructive technology from reaching widespread use by the masses in the future? I think this and AI are more likely issues than global warming.
A musket is a primitive ballistic weapon. And AR-15 or a glock 9 is a state of the art killing tool. Unless you think they should be using light sabers I don't know what an advanced weapon would be to you. Also, obesity is a much more complex issue than an abundance of food, with genetic, social, cultural and economic variables amalgamating to form a very complex problem; though I'm not sure why you mentioned it at the end of your paragraph about energy production... like if we made less food we'd need less energy, and also 'cure' the fat people? I dunno I'm kinda triggered lol
The problem with CO2 is timing. Yes eventually we could reduce atmospheric CO2, but even if we get net CO2 to zero by 2050 (and there's no sign of that happening) we will have already warmed Earth by 1.6+°C, melted the ice caps and the permafrost, reduced plant CO2 uptake with heat and droughts, ... also acidified the ocean and made millions of species extinct and other bad add-on effects. Throwing these into reverse will be a centuries-long project, and warning will continue for much of it. 😢.
I'm a Stoic. And I belong to a group of Stoics in Seattle.
Sheldon
I could listen to this gentleman all day 🇨🇦🙏
We all feel like goldfish listening to Joscha....
Great sense of humor!
The reward system has to be wrapped in a big bowl of stupid. 💥🤣
1.51.00: Nikola this is first time ETHICS became interesting for me......
Annunaki = Joscha
I appreciate the host's analysis of the academic industrial complex, which is, after 3 decades, very authoritarian, with pockets of freedom, in pockets of time.
Tenure schmenure.
Oh my God someone please make a Matrix movie based on Joscha's view of reality!
Maravilhosa conversa, este Bach é um gênio
way better than lex fridman
Did he write the book he proposed? If anyone has it, please provide a link.
Dear Joscha, please write a (pop science) book! so we can order some of our thoughts and leave our intellectual dead wood behind.
I just worry I guess that we might not like the answer and once realized in the culture could lead to the end of humanity or to a humanity none of us in the present day would want. A recent hypothesis is that life's true purpose and meaning is to accelerate the process of entropy ( disorder or chaos)...paradoxically it takes organized entities ...life...to accomplish this efficiently. For example the details if a meteor crater are preserved for a billion years on the lifeless moon yet on earth the flora and fauna largely destroy most of its information content over relatively short times. Intelligence appears to up the ante on the creation of this disorder...human pollution. If via AI we come to a full cultural or philosophical understanding of how to maximize such a purpose...it leaves us with two choices..
One basically becoming Satan's demons (figuratively) and use our superintelligence to optimizing the generation of chaos ....perhaps produce another great Bootes void of maximal entropy expanding at the speed of light in this sector of the universe....or alternatively species suicide to preserve the remaining order. It is possible there is no realistic star trek future...were the end if this road unless we want to destroy anymore.
Are we all INTP personalities here 🤔
Bubbles, thank you for this incredible interview! Your fan, Finny
26.00: Nikola how humble you are???? That's greater
I think people have trust in those thoughts which allow them to live the kind of life they personally want to live
1:02:21 - Makes sense to me. So any being with a brain creates a simulacrum of a self. Sure.
Now what about the will to live and the pain associated with losing life, or threatening that consciousness of being? It could well be that other "subjects of a life", other simulacrums of beings, other consciousnesses, have a greater will to live, and experience greater pain when endangered, tortured, or killed. Back to moral philosophy again... Kant was right - The only unqualified good is a good will. I'll add: the only harm is grievous pain inflicted on a "subject of a life" - i.e deprivation of living, failing to "let live", or ill will.
I’ve never looked into AI because I thought it was about robots. But I have had a spiritual awakening, then his Interview with Lex Friedman introduced me to Joscha and I was listening and was like , why is this guy on an AI podcast because what he is saying is a self evident truth Ive realized as well and I was like oh, cause of that robot book cover, haha. Now listening to Joscha, of course what we are AI, or MAYA. And how lucky I get to have him as my guide to understanding through deconstructing Consciousness, my experience and where I’m making errors as well!!!
Just before and around 36:00 he's saying that individuals are smarter than generations, but then inverse the trend, when he says civilizations are smarter than generations. We're certainly in a doozie of a civilization now, as he pointed out; the cult won.
What you believe, becomes true for you...as man thinks & believe so it will be.The mind is a computer, but we have infinite choices. See the world as One. Ich lasse mich nicht erspressen!
About the last part of the discussion related to suffering, I remember a video I seen a few years ago with a treatment for depression where an electrode was inserted in a specific part of the brain responsible with mood and they used a dial to see the level of happiness / suffering and you can see how face expression was changing in real time on the woman that had the procedure and they where testing what sort of level to set. We are biological machines and nothing more than that.
Joscha was using a combination of languages English some C++ and a bit of math :), thus it was a bit hard to understand if you did not had the same vocabulary but it was an efficient way to express ideas for those that speak the same language.
36:44 - That's right, we, as a Cultural Meatheadist species, are nonviable. We are meatheads.
But, no worries, the universe loves diversurdity - and we contribute immensely to the absurdity part of it, while screwing up the diversity part of it - so this failed experiment called humanity might in the end be slightly net positive in entertainment value for the universe. 😁
1:31:10 - Now we are getting somewhere! Well said Nikola ! - His response is self-serving BS. He puts a value on denial (we are great at denial!) and calls it "Aufklärung" or "Erleuchtung" - enlightenment, and those that don't have it, this denial, are immature. He is immature. He needs to do sports and take himself to the edge of tolerable pain. Then have someone push him over that edge, to "Existenzangst", existential anguish. Then he will understand the reality of suffering - and maybe stop denying that he causes it in others. He is a Cultural Meathead after all. 😁 PS: His cat example is absurd. The variety of their "states of feeling fine" among individuals is as varied as ours. PPS: Nikola killed him with his ethics questions and arguments. He is saying Nikola's argument is absolutist - which it is not. Nikola is a gentleman.
You are not listening and neither was Nikola for good 20 minutes while on point of ethics. That is why he asked the same question 3 times. After the third time, Joscha essentially explains that Nikola's axiomatic approach to ethics (NOT absolutist!) prevents him to understand Joscha's initial premise. Being unable to grasp Jocha's explanation, Nikola asks, also for the third time - what about the cows. As if answering that in the way that is understandable to everyone would somehow end the debate on necessity of implementation of ethics. I'm unaware how is it even possible to twist Bach's meaning so much with the way he formulates sentences. Then, again missing out on context completely is seemingly completely justified to determine someone's need for existential anguish. .
Consciousness just is. Beyond concept, thought, measurement or reduction. Mind is material, emerging with quantum events.
Being isolated in childhood appears to encourage creativity, There is Mr Bach here, Charles Dickens, the Brontes, Margaret Atwood and likely many others. In contrast, being programmed in early childhood produces herd-like behavior.
2:30 Who is Joscha Bach? It depends who's asking. Haha great answer
I particularly like the literal reading of this... A contextual reading would suggest that how Joscha describes himself depends what the asker seems likely to comprehend. The answer to a 5-year-old will be different than the answer to a computer scientist with 20 years experience in AI, for example. Read literally though, Joscha is a different person presenting himself in those two situations, different elements and qualities are available in those two cases, comprising a different "who". I sort of doubt this is what he meant, but I like the idea
I for one am privileged to witness a person like this in my lifetime expounding on his life's work. Thanks to this amazing invention called the internet.
Awe struck. Only other person I've heard speak like this is S. Pinker.
Ideas are in tiers and people think a good idea is one that’s a half tier above theirs, beautifully said and 59:00 boooom
I haven’t watched yet, but I hope he realizes we’re also AI. Our brains are the mother board of our bodies. Our bodies are biological machines carrying our consciousness. We create AI because we are AI.
1:32:52 about being an adult, emotions and suffering and controlling your reward functions
1:39:41 What about ethics? - Existence is neutral. Why are there so few Stoics? (Aside from cats.) - The human is the animal that is discontent, which is useful for a group species, because the wellbeing of the individual can be sacrificed for the wellbeing of the group: individuals overextend themselves for the benefit of the group.
1:42:40 Humans cause a mass extinction event, because we outcompete all the other species. - Ethics is about discovering the long game.
1:44:26 Snarky comments about the abuse of "Ethics" in the academical arena, and discussions about trolley problems that should be considered about as hypothetical (and useful) as discussions about Minotaurs in Labyrinths vs public forests
1:45:48 What is ethics? "Ethics is the principled negotiation of conflicts of interest under conditions of shared purpose." - Flipping bits in your mind to understand who the other one is.
1:46:41 Q: Where / How do the cows fit in? Can you have shared purpose with them? - A: Shared purpose does not objectively exist. You project a shared meaning above the level of your Ego. (With Ego being the function that integrates expected rewards over the next 50 years.)
1:47:07 Eternalists (The romantic Russian Jews / The Eastern European shape of the Soul): Integrating rewards from here to infinity (with expected rewards in the great beyond) leading to weird things: Shared meaning is non-transactional and thus happens also to be useful for tribes and corporations. "But there's a certain kind of illusion in it: to me meaning is like the Ring of Mordor. - You have to carry it. If you drop it, you lose the Brotherhood and you lose your mission. You have to carry it very lightly! If you put it on, you get super powers, but you get corrupted, because there IS no meaning: You get drawn into a cult that You create! - And I don't want to do that, because it's going to shackle my mind in a way I don't want it to be bound!"
1:48:35 Paraphrasing here: Q: How do we define ethics in a way that the Robots will treat us (ethically) as we should treat cows? - A: That's not how this works. Asimov got it wrong. We will not be able to negotiate from a position of slave-owners. - "We will not live next to it (AI), we will live inside of it."
1:04:05 some people think that a self can't be conscious only a physical system can be conscious. They've got it completely backwards. Consciousness is a simulated property of a simulated self
20:00 The strength of your beliefs must equal the weight of the evidence, and you must apply this recursively All the way down. Belief is no longer a verb, but a self-contained mathematical system
The Catholic Church, the fathers, understood transubstantiation. They knew in a medieval age it was beyond comprehension so they symbolized it in the Mass. We are now moving towards a quantum age but transubstantiation like consciousness is beyond the comprehension of most people, no matter how smart they think they are. ‘
So don’t put down the Catholic Church. Protestantism emphasizes reason. Reason is the feather on top of the volcano, it is useful but in no way is it fundamental. First consciousness, then mind, then reason whose purpose is to negotiate between thought and feeling. Reason is a function, the Western mind has turned it in a Deity, which is problematic, and hopefully won’t turn out to be a total disaster.
What an amazing interview. Joscha repeatedly spoke to my most cherished conclusions of decades of thinking about some of these things. Really incredible, his brilliance has a crystalizing property, a transparent consistency that leaves me breathless, i can tell he is giving me months of homework
This cheered me up big time...I’m laughing myself to death.
The problem with philosophy today is that it has been reduced to materialism. Darwin being the last great philosopher? The ancient philosophers must be turning in their graves. It is difficult to be a philosopher in an age where consciousness is ‘the hard problem,’ is not understood and life, consciousness, mind began in a muddy pond somewhere. We are in a material age and consequently matter is the limit of what many are capable of comprehending.
3.30: Guy without Cognitive Bias,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nice
Who would think that in a urban city there's anything redeeming but there is there is beauty everywhere in what man has made and he made it for us and I see it everywhere I'm the luckiest girl alive to see the love in everything man has made it's a gift to be able to meet an architect and look at a building and I can see what they thought no one ever would they become speechless ....but this machinery is inspirited I have a thing for cranes lol there the beautiful birds of equipment that reach the heights of mans imagination...art and philosophy makes us use our imagination....and that is stimulating!!!! Hee hee
There is so much wrong with what this guy is saying. Cosmic Consciousness an illusion? So much is incorrect here, totally wrong, it should come with a warning label.
1:30:00 ethics becomes very difficult to discuss once the reward function becomes mutable. When you're able to change what it is important to you, what you care about, then how do you define ethics
3:07 It makes sense why people treat expert or talking head views like gospel when there is an understanding of cultural and systemic indoctrination that doesn’t teach or encourage questioning or critical thinking. Curiosity is largely taught. It’s not something fully fostered individually with no encouraging support.
If Joshua was a start-up i would invest the most valuable thing i control and that is my mind (consciousness).
He is you
1:03:47 there are two types of learning one you generalize from existing models and you call that prejudice when you're in a bad mood. And the other is someone tells you what to think
34:00 conspiracy theories, intelligence of individuals vs. groups
2:04:02 psychology as a field failed when it became terrified of overfitting, it stopped making theories of the mind as a whole and made theories with very few parameters so that it could do experiments
Joscha is functionally awake. Open your eyes and wake up with him. 👍👍
31:00 so in a way the beginning of the cathedral that had been built by the Greeks and the Romans had been burn down and then rebuilt by the Catholics, but mostly in their likeness because they didn't get the foundations right, and that left scars in our epistemology that have not healed
Subscribed ! Very interesting..
Yeah. When we understand astro turf we will understand grass. I don’t think so. If it takes the artificial to understand the real, then we are in an even worse place than we thought we were in..