Just bought a second Spin Clean system via Amazon Prime Day. Cost me $59. Ordered the TergiKlean too. I REALLY appreciate your review and effort. Many thanks!
Thank you for the in-depth review of our machine. As we were not asked for any feedback on the findings presented in this video, we will leave these here. First, We would like to emphasize that the tests conducted were on LP-s that were previously cleaned with the Spin-Clean setup. This review was looking for further improvements on the SpinClean cleaned records after cleaning them with the Degritter. As it comes to Vinyl, ultrasonic cleaning is not a miracle cleaning solution. It can be thought of as a means for removing thin layers of dirt from the entirety of the record surface, be it from the top or from the bottom of the groove. Cleaning the record groove depth thin layers at a time will mainly result in reduction of noise floor and in the improvement of the dynamic range. Persistent pops and clicks on older records are most often either from physical damage or from larger debris that can require longer time for the ultrasonic cleaning dislodge. In some instances cleaning a very dirty disc first with a physical cleaning device such as SpinClean and then following up with an ultrasonic cleaning machine will yield the best results. Based on the tests conducted by ManCave, the Degritter MARK II has shown noticeable improvements on four of the five records that were tested and keep in mind that before testing these records were cleaned by the SpinClean method: Alice Cooper - reduced noise floor Tangerine Dream - reduction in the excitement levels Tom Waits - dynamic range increased from 14 -> 16 Superman - cleaning improved some areas of the record In conclusion, using ultrasonic cleaning is beneficial in reduction of the noise floor and improving the dynamic range. Whether or not you can hear the difference is up to the listener.
Ur response to the evidence is very generous and positive in favour of an item that u profit from greatly... Mancave basically states the Degritter made nebulous (vague) if any difference to the pops and clicks.. And the objective evidence supports this clearly... Many reviewers like the Audiophile Man only offer subjective impressions and say ur product is wonderful... Why the yawning gap between the objective evidence presented here and the subjective opinions elsewhere??
@@matthewtaylor7355 Perhaps because the objective evidence isn't actually objective. I don't own a degritter (though I am considering picking up one), but I do own around 3000 lp's, ranging from the first ones I received about 55 years ago when I was a child to some recent audiophile pressings, and my experience is that the quality of the pressings themselves is quite variable. If you are attempting to clean a relatively low quality pressing of something that was made with poor vinyl compounds, were pressed in dirty environments, or any number of other potential variables along the way, you are going to end up with a degraded product to some degree, and many of those factors aren't reversible by a higher end cleaning machine. Noisy vinyl surfaces that have the sources of that noise pressed into the record are still going to sound less good than a record made with a better quality of material in a cleaner environment. In addition, a lot of the noise can have a lot to do with the quality of the actual record player, tonearm and cartridge, as well as how accurately they are installed, and how well they are isolated from the surrounding environment, as well as how well the entire system is isolated from electrical line noise. Is that Ortofon Blue cartridge aligned perfectly, in a good tonearm, etc.? I do know that I have experienced a huge change in the amount of background noise after doing careful vacuum cleaning with a VPI 16.5 on a lot of my lp's, and ended up with a very low background noise level with almost no pops and ticks on albums that I have carefully cleaned up from that I purchased in the 1970's, and I have also had other albums that didn't really respond to any amount of cleaning, as the source of the unwanted noise appeared to be unremoveable.
@degritter1178 Thank you for answering here. Watching the video twice I thought about commenting but wanted to read the comments beforehand. I fully agree that ultrasonic cleaning but also not or any record cleaning is a miracle cleaning solution. I think no other record cleaner could make an old beaten up record suddenly have no clicks and pops. So why think that the Degritter should? It just doesn’t make any kind of sense. So I ordered a Degritter Mk2 here in Germany and I am very much looking forward to getting it. At the moment I am using the Keith Monk Prodigy and I think I will use the Degritter as an addition and second step in my process. Thank you for creating such a high quality device.
@@nicola6323 Just great. I have to be honest, since I have the Degritter I do not use my Keith Monk Prodigy any longer. Results of the Degritter are always good with the exception if the noise and crackling is already due to damaged grooves. Unfortunately sometimes, even if you buy a new LP, this is happening. If you then find that the Degritter is unable to change this, you need to buy a new one and you will find that it was the fault of the pressing plant from the start. Unfortunately there is no way for me telling this beforehand.
For this reason alone is why I insist on Original press Vintage Vinyl in VG+ to NM Condition. The Old School Engineers get full credit for their analog expertise & sound quality.
Thanks for taking the time to produce the video. I'm afraid that I can only hear LPs, that have not had the best handling care over the years. It's easy to hear the scratches & groove wear that has occurred, from being played on equipment that didn't do the LP any favours & being put into paper inner sleeves that caused scuffs. No system will ever remove the likes of surface/groove damage. Also, I would not exactly call the turntable highend, maybe against the usual $30 or $40 offerings it could be classed as highend.
Well, if anything, a simpler turntable would reveal less surface noise, because it's picking up less details from the grooves. So I expect the test results to be less favorable if a higher end turntable would've been used.
I’m actually shocked with your results since I was considering taking the plunge on the Degritter. How about cleaning the same records using the Kirmuss system or the Klaudio machine next? Great video!
Thank you for the patience, to make this video. Wanted already to comment on the other ultrasonic-cleaning-video - but there are no comments allowed. I am also an enthusiast, when it comes to vinyl. I got my first record 35 years ago. I started beeing a wedding-DJ in the early 2000. Since 5 years I own a real mancave, wich was a discothek in the late 1980 till 1995. Here I set up 2 record-players and sometimes I do music-streams on twitch. A few months ago, I first saw a degritter in a stream, and I thought, it would be a good idea, to clean some of my records. As you already stated, this thing looks great, but costs a lot... Last week I bought a ultrasonic cleaner, that looks somehow like the iSonic - but it says iCody - it propably comes from the same chinese factory ;-) Just like you, I did a lot of tests, recording a dirty record, cleaning it, and do a second recording with unchanged audio-settings. It was at least 20 vinyls: LP, 12" maxi and 7" singles. After really hard looking I came to a similar conclusion, like you: - If there are scratches on a vinyl, ultrasonic will not help. But that is obvious. - ultrasonic-cleaning only makes a noticeable difference, when the original was really dirty and handled bad in the last decades - a bad pressing or a worn out vinyl will always sound bad - no matter of cleaning work - 90 to 95 % of my vinyls will not sound better after cleaning - you can have a more obvious hearable difference, when you play a record wet. I found out, that the sound is just a little more clearer (if there are more details in the pressing) and the noisefloor is much lower. - The improvements is mostly only heard in between songs or very quiet party. When the guitars start to shred, the LP must be very dirty, to hear a difference I don't know, if I should keep that thing or send it back, as it takes a lot of time to do all the cleaning and drying - and the results are mostly not worth the efford... I also wanted to make a video about this, as most other videos show how great the improvements are - but you did a really good job, so there is no need for me - i simply send your video, when someone asks ;-)
Hello, thank you for the input. I blocked comments in the other video because there were a lot of triggered people upset that their cleaner is not the best of the best. I find that people are overly protective of their decisions and get extremely butthurt when shown or told otherwise. The problem I am having now is I set out to show just how much better the Degritter Mark II is over a manual cleaning and as I was running the tests and building the video, I was literally making these discoveries in real time like the viewer. I did not set out to make it look bad or ineffective. The test results did that all on their own. The real thing to consider is it must be a two stage system with brushes involved and a Tergitol based cleaner. Otherwise, the cleaning will not be as good. I also discovered that Ultrasonic cleaning is only really effective in the earlier parts of an LP were the groves are further apart. Closer in and towards the center of the record where the grooves are closer, it can't do anything. I have separated myself from the bulk of online reviewers by not selling myself out to get free things. I wish I could review more products that I have a serious interest in but in most cases, manufacturers insist on certain criteria be met for a positive review. I will not lie or make up false information to sell products. Luckily, Degritter believes in their cleaner and did not provide a single talking point but I doubt they expected me to put it head to head with the most basic of cleaning systems. Cleaning records is a very personal thing. Everyone thinks their way is the best and more power to them. I would hate to influence someone to spend nearly $1500 to get a $180 cleaning. I leave that up to the people that have not done any testing and get warm and fuzzy feelings from the placebo effect.
@@MancaveCentral1 Thanks for the reply. Yes. For me the same. I was listening to the records after cleaning and thought - wow, they sound nice. But when comparing directly the before and after-recordings at my Mac with studio Monitors, there was mostly no or only a minor difference... I can understand, that behave that way: when you pay lots of dollars for your equipment, than it MUST be THE BEST ;-) Otherwise you would have made a bad decission. And most people don't want to admit that...
Now I see why you disabled commenting on the comparison vid... That vid IS the only no bs honest review on RUclips seems like. Thanks again I will put my money in CDs , these new vinyls are pointless. At least for the price
@@MancaveCentral1 Wow... this is absolutely enlightening here. I was very close to buying one of these based on all the subjective reviews... whew... close call. I appreciate your candor... it is remarkably hard to find these days. On a side note... I think you are the only other person I've known to use the word "butthurt" outside of myself and my brother... lol. There are a LOT of whining folks in the AV world, but they have to justify their expenditures. It's one thing to buy it because you have the money and don't care about blowing it; however, it's another to buy it with biased expectations and then psychoacoustically brainwash yourself into thinking it has made significant improvements when, in fact, it made none or minimal differences that a machine that costs a lot less could make. Keep up the good work.
I have a vacuume record cleaning device and very happy with it. I was curious about ultra sonic cleaning products but, I am satisfied with my choice now. Thank you for this review, I was seriously debating getting the "Hummin Guru" of which is considerably cheaper but, if this ridiculously expensive device had no dicernable effects, I am sure the "Hummin guru" will not do any better. Thank you for preventing me from waisting money.
I have a vacuum cleaner, along with the Disco Antistat & Spin Clean & the Disco Antistat is superior in every respect over the Spin-Clean. My friend has the Humming Guru & we have tried it against the Degritter MKII. The cleaning performance is without a doubt superior to anything else that I own or compared. We tried them on against a job lot of sealed original '60s pressings, which is as fair a comparison as I think we could get. All the methods cleaned, up to a certain point, but the Degritter MKII produced cleaner & quieter records. I am a firm believer that most cleaning methods will benefit the playback, just some are much more effective than others. Enjoy your music no matter what.
Have you tried cleaning without any added cleaners, or surfactants added to the bath? The explosive bubbles of the cavitation process clean the record grooves and for the bubbles to be small enough to reach the bottom of the groove. All the other stuff doesn't help in this process. Also, the cleaning process might bring out more surface noise from the Lp at the same time more details/dynamics in the recording are improved. Anyhow, that's what I hear using my Degritter. I do use a little isopropyl alcohol sometimes(one -two oz.), to disinfect the insides of the machine, and doesn't leave a residue. Note; When I purchased my machine, I didn't notice right away that the Degritter Logo was missing. I was getting in touch with the company about having a separate rinse tank and mentioned the missing logo to them. They were so apologetic about the missing logo that they sent two logos plus an alignment tool to attach the logo and threw in an additional tank/reservoir for free. They have been nothing short of a great company to work with and I think you should have mentioned that it is such an inexpensive machine to own and operate. Not much to replace but a single foam filter and even that can be made from filter material picked up at the local building supply/hardware store, They're cool with that. And lastly, all of those tinker toy ultrasoniic cleaners based on jewelry/parts cleaning machines, HumminGuru, just don't work or work well plus add additional steps.
These tests are really impressive, and I'm sure it took many hours to do. Thanks for making this video. I'd be curious to see you test the Kirmuss Machine and HumminGuru one day. In my personal experience, I have compared the Kirmuss to a VPI Cyclone and a Spin Clean. I don't see a huge difference in the improvement between the vacuum machine (with Audio Intelligent fluid) and the Kirmuss with 3-5 cycles 95% of the time, but both are more effective than Spin Clean. The ultrasonic has really impressed me a few times, but you can't beat the vacuum machine on cleaning time though. For all 3, there were always ticks and pops remaining, but the sound quality still sounded improved to me. Spin Clean is still way better than nothing, but you have to rinse. It's fun to see all the dirt it takes off polluting the water after 3 records. Definitely people use it to clean too many. I think also in my experience when I went to a MC Cartridge and a higher end turntable, the pops and clicks were less of a distraction. I'm not sure why, but maybe it's the stylus profile being narrower or something inherent in the MC design. There's one reviewer that says he runs that Degritter 8-10 times on max and manually applies cleaner in-between cycles! So probably 2 hours to clean a record.
I have a feeling this will be the last record cleaner test. I got the Degritter Mark II to demonstrate how much better an ultrasonic cleaning can be over a manual spin clean but it backfired. It's actually a waste of time to keep trying to outdo my 2 stage system at this point and I tried many times in the past year. It's simply a waste of time.
I agree that it’s a waste of time for systems that are less expensive and already known to be inferior to the Degritter. However, the ultrasonic industry standard is KLAUDIO and that would certainly NOT be a waste of your time. Or ours. Maybe ultrasonic is snake oil or maybe the cavitation has to be much more (industrial grade) powerful as in the KLAUDIO.
My experience is the opposite; going to a higher end turntable and LOMC cartridge made it much more revealing and so it reveals both the good and the bad (noise) much more.
I can see the wave form does look at little brighter after the ultrasonic cleaning . If you use a wetting agent in the ultrasonic cleaner you should get a better result . Thanks for your effort 😉👍
Thanks for the review. What is the dual spin clean method? Do you use spin cleans fluid to clean records? Edit: sorry I guess I wasn’t paying attention at the start of the video. 😊
I did explain that in the video but I will go over it again. I use two spin clean record washers. I have a link to that in the description below. One spin-clean has a tergitol based cleaner mixed with distilled water and the second spin-clean with only clean distilled water to rinse off the cleaning agent. You scrub the crap out the record in the first spin-clean with tergitol for several rotations then pull the record and drop it in the clean water spin-clean for a few rotations to eliminate the tergitol residue. I find that most reviewers rave about ultrasonic cleaners not realizing their records are getting a liquid washing compared to the dry rub method of a brush they are use to and therefore confusing the the cleaning results when a liquid scrubbing is all you really need for thousands of dollars less. If I ever happen to come across an ultrasonic record cleaner that blows me away and sells me the idea that it is truly superior I will absolutely report back in the form of a new video.
No chance. I have requested a review cleaner from them almost a year ago and they would not deal with me. My record cleaner testing days are over unless someone somewhere insists they have something to offer that is the best and sends it to me to prove it. I will not be asking for anymore review units.
Very interesting comparison. I bought a Spin Clean for like $60 during Amazon's Prime Day and it think it's a great bang for the buck. Those ultrasonic cleaners are too expensive for me. It appears the Spin Clean did the job. Your before and afters were very revealing. I was expecting more from that $3K cleaner but it didn't happen. One thing I've learned is with any record cleaner is you can't expect miracles. I have some 40+ year old records that have never been cleaned outside of those brushes and hand-held cleaners. On a number of records it made a big improvement. On others, the differences were more subtle. If your record has scratches (which a few of mine do), no record cleaner is gonna fix that. I have noticed after cleaning the record is quieter (but not perfect) and over all fidelity is better, the especially on the high end.
I know that the Degritter has a drying cycle you can use. But on the ultrasonic cleaners that do not have this drying cycle, how long should one wait after wiping excess water off the LP and putting it in a rack to dry further? I noticed that a few hours does not seem to be enough time and there must still be water in the grooves. I've come back 24 hours later and it seems that the records have always dried by then. But I'm just curious what people think on how long we should leave the records drying after their ultrasonic cleaning? I'm legally blind so it really makes it more difficult for me to be able to look in the grooves and see if there's any water or moisture still. Thanks for any help! Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
Unless humidity is a severe problem in your home, drying should never take more than 20 min. Wash your record, place it flat on a microfiber cloth found here: ( amzn.to/3zORtuu ) place another cloth on top like a sandwich then pat it down gently. Then use the top cloth to wipe the record face a few rotations then repeat for the other side. Place the record in the rack and let it sit. If you are doing batches, swap out the rags every 5 or 6 LP's to keep things dry. You can use a fan or whatever you have around on a low setting to keep the air moving. I have a ceiling fan in the room where I clean records and that helps the drying time. I show this process in another one of my videos. I have played records within the same evening this way with perfect results. Letting them sit out for 24 hours to accumulate dust and other airborne particles in not recommended. Always use distilled water in the final rinse cycle and let the cloths air dry, do not put in the washing machine. I've done it this way for hundreds of records using the dual spin clean system and as long as the record is pressed properly, (many are not) you will really be blown away by what's in those tiny grooves.
@@MancaveCentral1 Thank you for the feedback! And that is something I did recently with a low-powered fan. I put it on the countertop and let it blow on low and assist in drying the records. I was thinking the same thing that you mentioned also. You don't want to leave them sitting out for 24 hours because they'll just pick up dust and dirt again 🙂 I use the ultrasonic cleaner to do the cleaning with distilled water of course and then I use the SpinClean I had initially bought to rinse the surfactant off of the recently cleaned records. And of course I do that with distilled water as well. Thanks for the help and advice!
Thank you for the cleaning videos. In 2016, I was advised to get the Disco Antistat cleaner. I would advise you to do the same, it transformed my collection. I always felt that my cleaner was just a cheap fix and that ultrasonic was the way to go, but looking at the results of your tests I am happier with it. Unlike the spin clean model you have in the video, it uses brushes of very fine hair instaed of the velvet pads. These get into the grooves and clear a lot of dirt. It also has a different type of spinning system, where you effectively put a bar through the record and it spins on that axis. I use a battery powered drill to turn it so I don't have to touch the record. The latest edition has replacement brushes and a handle to turn the records. The only drawback is the cleaning solution provided, it leaves a film on the disc so I would suggest making your own. I would also suggest that maybe you should stop buying new American pressings. I have never heard so many new records sounding so bad.
I always look for the original vintage pressings first. However, I recently bought a few new titles that sound fantastic with little to no background noise at all. Modern pressings can be great depending on the pressing plant I suppose. It will be and always has been hit or miss with records.
To me, the rinse tank is a must. Those were provided free with the Mark I as Degritter was closing out that model. You cannot leave dried soap/cleaning fluid on the record and expect a good outcome. Never understood why the rinse function and tank weren't part of the Degritter from Day 1.
@@alanarakelian5021 Okay, I see the confusion, the supplied product is more of a wetting agent breaking the surface tension of the water so the water doesn't bead up on the LP. They (LP's) look shinier when finished cleaning with it.
Thank you so much for the other vid comparison of the cleaners. At last someone noticed my pain that these new records sound bad right of the sleeve. I thought I was going crazy. Well let me tell you guys I'm coming to conclusion that its a waste of money altogether. Just get a nice top loader cd player like jvc or similar and enjoy your cds. I know I will. Hang them on a wall and youre golden If I need more hiss I will go with cassettes.
I've bought dozens of records lately that sound incredible with little to no noise which keeps me going and restoring my faith in vinyl. Unfortunately, I can not make effective videos of these successes due to copyright police killing my monetization for all the hard work I put into capturing sound bites and editing these videos. If it weren't for the strict monopoly the record industry has on society, I would have so many more videos.
@@MancaveCentral1 gresy to hear that, we seem to share similar taste five us a few names so I can look them up. I bought Marillion seasons end recently and it annoyed me a lil bit
ist für das Wasser eine Umwälzpumpe vorhanden, die über einen feinen Filter Staubpartikel entfernt? Mit jeder Plattenreinigung ändert sich ja auch der Verschmutzungsgrad der Reinigungsflüssigkeit.
What is this Bone Machine? I can't find any information about it online? I was thinking about buying a Degritter but I'm not impressed after watching this video.
Unfortunately your testing is limited to very specific problem areas that have nothing to do with the actual music. In my recordings and A/B testing when doing surfactant-based cleaning with an Okki Nokki, often the biggest change is in the sound presentation and a reduction of haze or murkiness, rather than a reduction of clicks in quiet passages. Obviously this is more difficult to demonstrate when audio samples get blocked due to copyright. I'm still curious if the Degritter could lessen the insufferable chore of my manual cleaning process, or perhaps help tackle problem areas that my Liquonox/Ilfotol approach doesn't. It's a hefty pill to swallow for a blind buy to test out, though.
Funny how your turntable is about 1/3rd the price of the degritter. I've recently bought one and found that in some cases, noise even becomes worse! I didn't really expect that, but overall it seems that results are mixed - it's not that magic bullet some people claim it to be.
Great video. Looks to me like the Degritter is worth it if $3,000 is not a lot of money to you and the automation is important. It probably makes a lot of sense for a record store with the volume to cover the expense and necessitate the automation. However, I think I'll just buy a second Spin Clean just for rinsing. Is it a lot more manual labor? Yes, but a lot less money.
The extra time and labor involved is actually a good thing. I can sit down with a stack of records that need cleaning and listen to those that are ready to play! It's a win win. By the time you enjoy a couple records, the job is done and there's no noise to ruin the experience like with ultrasonic cleaners.
I have only one criticism of this. The spin clean system relies upon brushes that the vinyl is spun through. My concern over this system is if there are objects, in particular, hard objects, like pieces of vinyl not completely washed off of the vinyl, such a system can cause its own scratches. One of the nice aspects to an ultra sonic cleaner is nothing touches the vinyl except bubbles. In the end, while this test appears to show no noticeable improvements that can possibly justify the difference in cost, what we don't know, is if some of the clicks and pops were actually caused by Spin Clean, where if Spin Clean was never used and only the ultra sonic cleaner was, may not even be there to begin with.
I am certain that nothing was introduced into the sound from using the Spin Clean system. I have been listening to dozens of amazing sounding records recently with little to no noise that are always run through the dual spin clean system before playing. A properly washed record that is pressed with care from a quality master can exhibit all the audiophile traits of dynamic range and spatial sound along with the near zero noise floor that digital brings.
Thank you for this excellent review and production quality. I was really close to getting this/ultrasonic cleaner in hopes of fixing the crackling, and other surface noises that I can’t seem to get rid of using manual methods, but it looks like there’s no difference so I’ll stick to manual cleaning and try out different fluids like enzymatic solutions
It's been so long since I used it. I sold it and decided to just dual spin clean everything from now on. The VC-E2 is more hands on and requires a higher level of attention than an Ultrasonic cleaner. It works good but I certainly don't care to manually clean one side at a time then flip then clean again. It's just one of many choices in the record cleaning arsenal I suppose but I would never go back to it.
The bottom line is, you can’t do anything about damaged vinyl-period. Each time you play a record, the hard diamond stylus on the soft vinyl will cause a certain degree of damage. It may be minute, but it’s there. In these samples, you’re hearing primarily damage to the vinyl. I don’t care how great ANY record cleaning machine is, or how much it costs, it WON’T erase damage that has been done to the record. The most you can expect is that it removes all the gunk that’s on the surface and in the grooves, and so minimizes surface noise. The bottom line is this: it’s how a record SOUNDS that’s important. If it wasn’t, we’d all listen to Spotify!!!
I have been a vinyl dealer for over 40 years now and I have never found a machine that was any good, I ended up just cleaning by hand and using mine to suck off the fluid and dry the record, as wiping them with a cloth just pushes rubbish back into the grooves.
very interesting tests and it goes in the direction, sadly, that if a record isn´t quiet in itself you can´t do much against it. A little bit of dust removing but no miracles. I´working in 2-step, ultrasonic box for 6 records and a LEVAR TWIN which is a clone of the even more expensive Clearaudio Double Matrix. This combo works fast and nice together BUT i still would say "deeper dirt" doesn´t get removed, really frustrating for that amount of money. I´m not sure if I should keep that Levar, it is nice that both sides get cleaned and dried but problematic LPs don´t get silent with this machine. Still wonder if it is ever possible but I do have some dealers who almost always do send me 100% noicefree LPs which I think is amazing. Maybe it is all their knowledge of grading the vinyl. Maybe it is the form they are cleaning. Some use the Clearaudio Double Matrix, some different Ultrasonics. Still haven´t given up my search for a GREAT cleaning machine because I love that noise-free vinyl so much and I don´t want to buy 10 copies till i finally get a real Mint or NM
People have to understand the limitations of the vinyl format. It is a PHYSICAL media where a diamond digs through grooves, and these will wear over time. With LPs even minuscule scratches will most likely be heard, because with these objective tests you are especially looking for them, looking for errors and comparing it to clean digital. You have to have a loud cut with with deep and wide grooves, max play time of 5-6 minutes per vinyl side to really get groove durability and best sonic qualities that can be compared to digital, and even that doesn't really compare, because the physical limitations of cutting sound to grooves. There are dozens of different factors in making a vinyl record and playing it, anything starting from the engineer who cuts the master, the gear used in that process, to the metal works and skills needed to press the actual vinyl. There is a whole lot of different quality raw vinyl that is used to press records etc, not all are the same quality. A batch from one factory's vinyl pellets when pressed to record can sound different than another company's raw vinyl etc. Then you have the stereo system that a person is using for listening; Their turntable, the adjustments of the tone arm, the cartridge, anti-skate, is it belt driven or direct drive etc etc. So you can see it's almost a miracle that modern vinyl records sound as good as they do! Someone pointed out that these modern reissues are not so good quality sometimes, and that is also true unfortunately. A whole lot of engineering workmanship and skills vanished in the early 90s, when vinyl was declared "dead" and people retired from the business. That is why you can usually hear that the absolutely best vinyl pressings are from the 80's, because the technology and the people doing vinyl records were at the peak of the format's evolution.
@@kennthomif BBC needed their machines serviced monks would go and service them himself... The class system I'm afraid... they shud shift production to China.. The Asians r together
.imho these records do have other issues ...bad pressing, not centered, warped, high surface noise...even if you remove the dust and pressing residues they will sound better of course.
No machine, no manual cleaning will restore a scratched beaten up record. Record cleaning, any record ckeaning, is for removing dust, oils from fingerprints, residues from mishandling and storage, mold, and other conditions that relate to residues on the surface and grooves. Your testing with scrap records does not qualify as cleaning. You want to restore records and that is nearly impossible no matter which method you use. I have acquired a VPI Cyclone machine, a Degritter Mark II, and a KLAUDIO ultrasonic cleaning machine. I do follow a very thorough cleaning process and can attest to the performance of these machines. But I know that records that are scratched or beaten will never sound well no matter how much effort I put on them.
Follow up comment.. Ur use of softwear recordings before and after.. Beats all the subjective reviews I'm afraid.... It's an oscilloscope for vinyl.... Irrefutible
For this reason alone is why I insist on Original press Vintage Vinyl in VG+ to NM Condition. The Old School Engineers get full credit for their analog expertise & sound quality.
I definitely backed off on buying records. The original analog sourced vinyl before being digitally sourced and "remastered" is the way to go. It's the absolute closest a listener can get to the artist and their original documented work.
@@MancaveCentral1 I agree 💯% I can tell a huge difference in sound quality with original press & the records I have from the 1950s have an even richer sound. If you aren't currently running a mixer with your setup you may try one to filter your sound.
Just bought a second Spin Clean system via Amazon Prime Day. Cost me $59. Ordered the TergiKlean too.
I REALLY appreciate your review and effort. Many thanks!
Great to hear!
Thank you for the in-depth review of our machine. As we were not asked for any feedback on the findings presented in this video, we will leave these here.
First, We would like to emphasize that the tests conducted were on LP-s that were previously cleaned with the Spin-Clean setup. This review was looking for further improvements on the SpinClean cleaned records after cleaning them with the Degritter.
As it comes to Vinyl, ultrasonic cleaning is not a miracle cleaning solution. It can be thought of as a means for removing thin layers of dirt from the entirety of the record surface, be it from the top or from the bottom of the groove.
Cleaning the record groove depth thin layers at a time will mainly result in reduction of noise floor and in the improvement of the dynamic range. Persistent pops and clicks on older records are most often either from physical damage or from larger debris that can require longer time for the ultrasonic cleaning dislodge. In some instances cleaning a very dirty disc first with a physical cleaning device such as SpinClean and then following up with an ultrasonic cleaning machine will yield the best results.
Based on the tests conducted by ManCave, the Degritter MARK II has shown noticeable improvements on four of the five records that were tested and keep in mind that before testing these records were cleaned by the SpinClean method:
Alice Cooper - reduced noise floor
Tangerine Dream - reduction in the excitement levels
Tom Waits - dynamic range increased from 14 -> 16
Superman - cleaning improved some areas of the record
In conclusion, using ultrasonic cleaning is beneficial in reduction of the noise floor and improving the dynamic range. Whether or not you can hear the difference is up to the listener.
Ur response to the evidence is very generous and positive in favour of an item that u profit from greatly... Mancave basically states the Degritter made nebulous (vague) if any difference to the pops and clicks.. And the objective evidence supports this clearly... Many reviewers like the Audiophile Man only offer subjective impressions and say ur product is wonderful... Why the yawning gap between the objective evidence presented here and the subjective opinions elsewhere??
@@matthewtaylor7355 Perhaps because the objective evidence isn't actually objective. I don't own a degritter (though I am considering picking up one), but I do own around 3000 lp's, ranging from the first ones I received about 55 years ago when I was a child to some recent audiophile pressings, and my experience is that the quality of the pressings themselves is quite variable. If you are attempting to clean a relatively low quality pressing of something that was made with poor vinyl compounds, were pressed in dirty environments, or any number of other potential variables along the way, you are going to end up with a degraded product to some degree, and many of those factors aren't reversible by a higher end cleaning machine. Noisy vinyl surfaces that have the sources of that noise pressed into the record are still going to sound less good than a record made with a better quality of material in a cleaner environment. In addition, a lot of the noise can have a lot to do with the quality of the actual record player, tonearm and cartridge, as well as how accurately they are installed, and how well they are isolated from the surrounding environment, as well as how well the entire system is isolated from electrical line noise. Is that Ortofon Blue cartridge aligned perfectly, in a good tonearm, etc.?
I do know that I have experienced a huge change in the amount of background noise after doing careful vacuum cleaning with a VPI 16.5 on a lot of my lp's, and ended up with a very low background noise level with almost no pops and ticks on albums that I have carefully cleaned up from that I purchased in the 1970's, and I have also had other albums that didn't really respond to any amount of cleaning, as the source of the unwanted noise appeared to be unremoveable.
@degritter1178 Thank you for answering here. Watching the video twice I thought about commenting but wanted to read the comments beforehand. I fully agree that ultrasonic cleaning but also not or any record cleaning is a miracle cleaning solution. I think no other record cleaner could make an old beaten up record suddenly have no clicks and pops. So why think that the Degritter should? It just doesn’t make any kind of sense.
So I ordered a Degritter Mk2 here in Germany and I am very much looking forward to getting it. At the moment I am using the Keith Monk Prodigy and I think I will use the Degritter as an addition and second step in my process. Thank you for creating such a high quality device.
@@RillenReinerwhat has your experience been with the Degritter?
@@nicola6323 Just great. I have to be honest, since I have the Degritter I do not use my Keith Monk Prodigy any longer. Results of the Degritter are always good with the exception if the noise and crackling is already due to damaged grooves. Unfortunately sometimes, even if you buy a new LP, this is happening. If you then find that the Degritter is unable to change this, you need to buy a new one and you will find that it was the fault of the pressing plant from the start. Unfortunately there is no way for me telling this beforehand.
For this reason alone is why I insist on Original press Vintage Vinyl in VG+ to NM Condition. The Old School Engineers get full credit for their analog expertise & sound quality.
Original presses don't always sound great..
Thanks for taking the time to produce the video.
I'm afraid that I can only hear LPs, that have not had the best handling care over the years. It's easy to hear the scratches & groove wear that has occurred, from being played on equipment that didn't do the LP any favours & being put into paper inner sleeves that caused scuffs. No system will ever remove the likes of surface/groove damage. Also, I would not exactly call the turntable highend, maybe against the usual $30 or $40 offerings it could be classed as highend.
Well, if anything, a simpler turntable would reveal less surface noise, because it's picking up less details from the grooves.
So I expect the test results to be less favorable if a higher end turntable would've been used.
I’m actually shocked with your results since I was considering taking the plunge on the Degritter. How about cleaning the same records using the Kirmuss system or the Klaudio machine next? Great video!
Add one for the Kirmuss
Thank you for taking the time to do this, its first class information
Thank you for the patience, to make this video. Wanted already to comment on the other ultrasonic-cleaning-video - but there are no comments allowed.
I am also an enthusiast, when it comes to vinyl. I got my first record 35 years ago. I started beeing a wedding-DJ in the early 2000. Since 5 years I own a real mancave, wich was a discothek in the late 1980 till 1995. Here I set up 2 record-players and sometimes I do music-streams on twitch.
A few months ago, I first saw a degritter in a stream, and I thought, it would be a good idea, to clean some of my records. As you already stated, this thing looks great, but costs a lot... Last week I bought a ultrasonic cleaner, that looks somehow like the iSonic - but it says iCody - it propably comes from the same chinese factory ;-)
Just like you, I did a lot of tests, recording a dirty record, cleaning it, and do a second recording with unchanged audio-settings. It was at least 20 vinyls: LP, 12" maxi and 7" singles. After really hard looking I came to a similar conclusion, like you:
- If there are scratches on a vinyl, ultrasonic will not help. But that is obvious.
- ultrasonic-cleaning only makes a noticeable difference, when the original was really dirty and handled bad in the last decades
- a bad pressing or a worn out vinyl will always sound bad - no matter of cleaning work
- 90 to 95 % of my vinyls will not sound better after cleaning
- you can have a more obvious hearable difference, when you play a record wet. I found out, that the sound is just a little more clearer (if there are more details in the pressing) and the noisefloor is much lower.
- The improvements is mostly only heard in between songs or very quiet party. When the guitars start to shred, the LP must be very dirty, to hear a difference
I don't know, if I should keep that thing or send it back, as it takes a lot of time to do all the cleaning and drying - and the results are mostly not worth the efford...
I also wanted to make a video about this, as most other videos show how great the improvements are - but you did a really good job, so there is no need for me - i simply send your video, when someone asks ;-)
Hello, thank you for the input. I blocked comments in the other video because there were a lot of triggered people upset that their cleaner is not the best of the best. I find that people are overly protective of their decisions and get extremely butthurt when shown or told otherwise. The problem I am having now is I set out to show just how much better the Degritter Mark II is over a manual cleaning and as I was running the tests and building the video, I was literally making these discoveries in real time like the viewer. I did not set out to make it look bad or ineffective. The test results did that all on their own. The real thing to consider is it must be a two stage system with brushes involved and a Tergitol based cleaner. Otherwise, the cleaning will not be as good. I also discovered that Ultrasonic cleaning is only really effective in the earlier parts of an LP were the groves are further apart. Closer in and towards the center of the record where the grooves are closer, it can't do anything.
I have separated myself from the bulk of online reviewers by not selling myself out to get free things. I wish I could review more products that I have a serious interest in but in most cases, manufacturers insist on certain criteria be met for a positive review. I will not lie or make up false information to sell products. Luckily, Degritter believes in their cleaner and did not provide a single talking point but I doubt they expected me to put it head to head with the most basic of cleaning systems.
Cleaning records is a very personal thing. Everyone thinks their way is the best and more power to them. I would hate to influence someone to spend nearly $1500 to get a $180 cleaning. I leave that up to the people that have not done any testing and get warm and fuzzy feelings from the placebo effect.
@@MancaveCentral1 Thanks for the reply. Yes. For me the same. I was listening to the records after cleaning and thought - wow, they sound nice. But when comparing directly the before and after-recordings at my Mac with studio Monitors, there was mostly no or only a minor difference...
I can understand, that behave that way: when you pay lots of dollars for your equipment, than it MUST be THE BEST ;-) Otherwise you would have made a bad decission. And most people don't want to admit that...
Now I see why you disabled commenting on the comparison vid... That vid IS the only no bs honest review on RUclips seems like. Thanks again I will put my money in CDs , these new vinyls are pointless. At least for the price
@@MancaveCentral1 Wow... this is absolutely enlightening here. I was very close to buying one of these based on all the subjective reviews... whew... close call. I appreciate your candor... it is remarkably hard to find these days. On a side note... I think you are the only other person I've known to use the word "butthurt" outside of myself and my brother... lol. There are a LOT of whining folks in the AV world, but they have to justify their expenditures. It's one thing to buy it because you have the money and don't care about blowing it; however, it's another to buy it with biased expectations and then psychoacoustically brainwash yourself into thinking it has made significant improvements when, in fact, it made none or minimal differences that a machine that costs a lot less could make. Keep up the good work.
I have a vacuume record cleaning device and very happy with it. I was curious about ultra sonic cleaning products but, I am satisfied with my choice now. Thank you for this review, I was seriously debating getting the "Hummin Guru" of which is considerably cheaper but, if this ridiculously expensive device had no dicernable effects, I am sure the "Hummin guru" will not do any better. Thank you for preventing me from waisting money.
I have a vacuum cleaner, along with the Disco Antistat & Spin Clean & the Disco Antistat is superior in every respect over the Spin-Clean. My friend has the Humming Guru & we have tried it against the Degritter MKII. The cleaning performance is without a doubt superior to anything else that I own or compared. We tried them on against a job lot of sealed original '60s pressings, which is as fair a comparison as I think we could get. All the methods cleaned, up to a certain point, but the Degritter MKII produced cleaner & quieter records.
I am a firm believer that most cleaning methods will benefit the playback, just some are much more effective than others. Enjoy your music no matter what.
Have you tried cleaning without any added cleaners, or surfactants added to the bath? The explosive bubbles of the cavitation process clean the record grooves and for the bubbles to be small enough to reach the bottom of the groove. All the other stuff doesn't help in this process. Also, the cleaning process might bring out more surface noise from the Lp at the same time more details/dynamics in the recording are improved. Anyhow, that's what I hear using my Degritter. I do use a little isopropyl alcohol sometimes(one -two oz.), to disinfect the insides of the machine, and doesn't leave a residue. Note; When I purchased my machine, I didn't notice right away that the Degritter Logo was missing. I was getting in touch with the company about having a separate rinse tank and mentioned the missing logo to them. They were so apologetic about the missing logo that they sent two logos plus an alignment tool to attach the logo and threw in an additional tank/reservoir for free. They have been nothing short of a great company to work with and I think you should have mentioned that it is such an inexpensive machine to own and operate. Not much to replace but a single foam filter and even that can be made from filter material picked up at the local building supply/hardware store, They're cool with that.
And lastly, all of those tinker toy ultrasoniic cleaners based on jewelry/parts cleaning machines, HumminGuru, just don't work or work well plus add additional steps.
Thanks for the video, I love it. Did you get back to manual cleaning ?
Cheers !
Yes, back to two spin cleans and a microphone.
These tests are really impressive, and I'm sure it took many hours to do. Thanks for making this video. I'd be curious to see you test the Kirmuss Machine and HumminGuru one day. In my personal experience, I have compared the Kirmuss to a VPI Cyclone and a Spin Clean. I don't see a huge difference in the improvement between the vacuum machine (with Audio Intelligent fluid) and the Kirmuss with 3-5 cycles 95% of the time, but both are more effective than Spin Clean. The ultrasonic has really impressed me a few times, but you can't beat the vacuum machine on cleaning time though. For all 3, there were always ticks and pops remaining, but the sound quality still sounded improved to me. Spin Clean is still way better than nothing, but you have to rinse. It's fun to see all the dirt it takes off polluting the water after 3 records. Definitely people use it to clean too many. I think also in my experience when I went to a MC Cartridge and a higher end turntable, the pops and clicks were less of a distraction. I'm not sure why, but maybe it's the stylus profile being narrower or something inherent in the MC design. There's one reviewer that says he runs that Degritter 8-10 times on max and manually applies cleaner in-between cycles! So probably 2 hours to clean a record.
I have a feeling this will be the last record cleaner test. I got the Degritter Mark II to demonstrate how much better an ultrasonic cleaning can be over a manual spin clean but it backfired. It's actually a waste of time to keep trying to outdo my 2 stage system at this point and I tried many times in the past year. It's simply a waste of time.
I agree that it’s a waste of time for systems that are less expensive and already known to be inferior to the Degritter. However, the ultrasonic industry standard is KLAUDIO and that would certainly NOT be a waste of your time. Or ours. Maybe ultrasonic is snake oil or maybe the cavitation has to be much more (industrial grade) powerful as in the KLAUDIO.
Wow this video has put me off buying the Degritter, thanks for your tests, you have saved me from wasting a whole load of money.
@@MancaveCentral1I too would also like to see a Kirmuss test
My experience is the opposite; going to a higher end turntable and LOMC cartridge made it much more revealing and so it reveals both the good and the bad (noise) much more.
I can see the wave form does look at little brighter after the ultrasonic cleaning .
If you use a wetting agent in the ultrasonic cleaner you should get a better result .
Thanks for your effort 😉👍
Thank you saved me looking further.
Thanks for the review. What is the dual spin clean method? Do you use spin cleans fluid to clean records? Edit: sorry I guess I wasn’t paying attention at the start of the video. 😊
I did explain that in the video but I will go over it again. I use two spin clean record washers. I have a link to that in the description below. One spin-clean has a tergitol based cleaner mixed with distilled water and the second spin-clean with only clean distilled water to rinse off the cleaning agent. You scrub the crap out the record in the first spin-clean with tergitol for several rotations then pull the record and drop it in the clean water spin-clean for a few rotations to eliminate the tergitol residue. I find that most reviewers rave about ultrasonic cleaners not realizing their records are getting a liquid washing compared to the dry rub method of a brush they are use to and therefore confusing the the cleaning results when a liquid scrubbing is all you really need for thousands of dollars less. If I ever happen to come across an ultrasonic record cleaner that blows me away and sells me the idea that it is truly superior I will absolutely report back in the form of a new video.
Outstanding testing. Thank you. Any chance you can get a KLAUDIO for testing?
No chance. I have requested a review cleaner from them almost a year ago and they would not deal with me. My record cleaner testing days are over unless someone somewhere insists they have something to offer that is the best and sends it to me to prove it. I will not be asking for anymore review units.
@@MancaveCentral1Kirmuss audio is the most confident in a product than I’ve ever seen
Very interesting comparison. I bought a Spin Clean for like $60 during Amazon's Prime Day and it think it's a great bang for the buck. Those ultrasonic cleaners are too expensive for me. It appears the Spin Clean did the job. Your before and afters were very revealing. I was expecting more from that $3K cleaner but it didn't happen. One thing I've learned is with any record cleaner is you can't expect miracles. I have some 40+ year old records that have never been cleaned outside of those brushes and hand-held cleaners. On a number of records it made a big improvement. On others, the differences were more subtle. If your record has scratches (which a few of mine do), no record cleaner is gonna fix that. I have noticed after cleaning the record is quieter (but not perfect) and over all fidelity is better, the especially on the high end.
I know that the Degritter has a drying cycle you can use. But on the ultrasonic cleaners that do not have this drying cycle, how long should one wait after wiping excess water off the LP and putting it in a rack to dry further? I noticed that a few hours does not seem to be enough time and there must still be water in the grooves. I've come back 24 hours later and it seems that the records have always dried by then. But I'm just curious what people think on how long we should leave the records drying after their ultrasonic cleaning? I'm legally blind so it really makes it more difficult for me to be able to look in the grooves and see if there's any water or moisture still. Thanks for any help!
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
Unless humidity is a severe problem in your home, drying should never take more than 20 min. Wash your record, place it flat on a microfiber cloth found here: ( amzn.to/3zORtuu ) place another cloth on top like a sandwich then pat it down gently. Then use the top cloth to wipe the record face a few rotations then repeat for the other side. Place the record in the rack and let it sit. If you are doing batches, swap out the rags every 5 or 6 LP's to keep things dry. You can use a fan or whatever you have around on a low setting to keep the air moving. I have a ceiling fan in the room where I clean records and that helps the drying time. I show this process in another one of my videos. I have played records within the same evening this way with perfect results. Letting them sit out for 24 hours to accumulate dust and other airborne particles in not recommended.
Always use distilled water in the final rinse cycle and let the cloths air dry, do not put in the washing machine. I've done it this way for hundreds of records using the dual spin clean system and as long as the record is pressed properly, (many are not) you will really be blown away by what's in those tiny grooves.
@@MancaveCentral1 Thank you for the feedback! And that is something I did recently with a low-powered fan. I put it on the countertop and let it blow on low and assist in drying the records. I was thinking the same thing that you mentioned also. You don't want to leave them sitting out for 24 hours because they'll just pick up dust and dirt again 🙂 I use the ultrasonic cleaner to do the cleaning with distilled water of course and then I use the SpinClean I had initially bought to rinse the surfactant off of the recently cleaned records. And of course I do that with distilled water as well. Thanks for the help and advice!
Thank you for the cleaning videos.
In 2016, I was advised to get the Disco Antistat cleaner. I would advise you to do the same, it transformed my collection. I always felt that my cleaner was just a cheap fix and that ultrasonic was the way to go, but looking at the results of your tests I am happier with it.
Unlike the spin clean model you have in the video, it uses brushes of very fine hair instaed of the velvet pads.
These get into the grooves and clear a lot of dirt.
It also has a different type of spinning system, where you effectively put a bar through the record and it spins on that axis. I use a battery powered drill to turn it so I don't have to touch the record.
The latest edition has replacement brushes and a handle to turn the records.
The only drawback is the cleaning solution provided, it leaves a film on the disc so I would suggest making your own.
I would also suggest that maybe you should stop buying new American pressings. I have never heard so many new records sounding so bad.
I always look for the original vintage pressings first. However, I recently bought a few new titles that sound fantastic with little to no background noise at all. Modern pressings can be great depending on the pressing plant I suppose. It will be and always has been hit or miss with records.
To me, the rinse tank is a must. Those were provided free with the Mark I as Degritter was closing out that model. You cannot leave dried soap/cleaning fluid on the record and expect a good outcome. Never understood why the rinse function and tank weren't part of the Degritter from Day 1.
Why are you adding a cleaner to the Degritter bath? Not necessary. The rinse agent is all you really need.
@@watdanuqta-mf5ms Degritter includes a cleaning fluid as part of the package.
@@alanarakelian5021 Okay, I see the confusion, the supplied product is more of a wetting agent breaking the surface tension of the water so the water doesn't bead up on the LP. They (LP's) look shinier when finished cleaning with it.
Good work. Respect!
Thank you so much for the other vid comparison of the cleaners. At last someone noticed my pain that these new records sound bad right of the sleeve. I thought I was going crazy. Well let me tell you guys I'm coming to conclusion that its a waste of money altogether. Just get a nice top loader cd player like jvc or similar and enjoy your cds. I know I will. Hang them on a wall and youre golden If I need more hiss I will go with cassettes.
I've bought dozens of records lately that sound incredible with little to no noise which keeps me going and restoring my faith in vinyl. Unfortunately, I can not make effective videos of these successes due to copyright police killing my monetization for all the hard work I put into capturing sound bites and editing these videos. If it weren't for the strict monopoly the record industry has on society, I would have so many more videos.
@@MancaveCentral1 gresy to hear that, we seem to share similar taste five us a few names so I can look them up. I bought Marillion seasons end recently and it annoyed me a lil bit
ist für das Wasser eine Umwälzpumpe vorhanden, die über einen feinen Filter Staubpartikel entfernt?
Mit jeder Plattenreinigung ändert sich ja auch der Verschmutzungsgrad der Reinigungsflüssigkeit.
Ja, genau das macht die Degritter.
Just letting you know that Bone Machine is being reissued soon so you will be able to get a real copy, Great review thanks
I know, I pre-ordered it for an October release date.
What is this Bone Machine? I can't find any information about it online? I was thinking about buying a Degritter but I'm not impressed after watching this video.
Bone Machine is an album by Tom Waits, the one he is using in the video. lol @@jmd8537
@@jmd8537 Bone Machine is the Tom Waits album that he used in part of the testing.
Unfortunately your testing is limited to very specific problem areas that have nothing to do with the actual music. In my recordings and A/B testing when doing surfactant-based cleaning with an Okki Nokki, often the biggest change is in the sound presentation and a reduction of haze or murkiness, rather than a reduction of clicks in quiet passages. Obviously this is more difficult to demonstrate when audio samples get blocked due to copyright. I'm still curious if the Degritter could lessen the insufferable chore of my manual cleaning process, or perhaps help tackle problem areas that my Liquonox/Ilfotol approach doesn't. It's a hefty pill to swallow for a blind buy to test out, though.
Funny how your turntable is about 1/3rd the price of the degritter.
I've recently bought one and found that in some cases, noise even becomes worse!
I didn't really expect that, but overall it seems that results are mixed - it's not that magic bullet some people claim it to be.
The audio samples after the Degritter cycle do sound cleaner & brighter
Great video. Looks to me like the Degritter is worth it if $3,000 is not a lot of money to you and the automation is important. It probably makes a lot of sense for a record store with the volume to cover the expense and necessitate the automation. However, I think I'll just buy a second Spin Clean just for rinsing. Is it a lot more manual labor? Yes, but a lot less money.
The extra time and labor involved is actually a good thing. I can sit down with a stack of records that need cleaning and listen to those that are ready to play! It's a win win. By the time you enjoy a couple records, the job is done and there's no noise to ruin the experience like with ultrasonic cleaners.
@@MancaveCentral1 Very true. I always listen while I clean.
I have only one criticism of this. The spin clean system relies upon brushes that the vinyl is spun through. My concern over this system is if there are objects, in particular, hard objects, like pieces of vinyl not completely washed off of the vinyl, such a system can cause its own scratches. One of the nice aspects to an ultra sonic cleaner is nothing touches the vinyl except bubbles. In the end, while this test appears to show no noticeable improvements that can possibly justify the difference in cost, what we don't know, is if some of the clicks and pops were actually caused by Spin Clean, where if Spin Clean was never used and only the ultra sonic cleaner was, may not even be there to begin with.
I am certain that nothing was introduced into the sound from using the Spin Clean system. I have been listening to dozens of amazing sounding records recently with little to no noise that are always run through the dual spin clean system before playing. A properly washed record that is pressed with care from a quality master can exhibit all the audiophile traits of dynamic range and spatial sound along with the near zero noise floor that digital brings.
Thanks for your analysis. Evidently, the Degritter is not a top pocket find after all.
The only way to find that out was to get eyes and boots on the ground.
Thank you for this excellent review and production quality. I was really close to getting this/ultrasonic cleaner in hopes of fixing the crackling, and other surface noises that I can’t seem to get rid of using manual methods, but it looks like there’s no difference so I’ll stick to manual cleaning and try out different fluids like enzymatic solutions
Any opinions on the Pro-Ject VC-E2?
It's been so long since I used it. I sold it and decided to just dual spin clean everything from now on. The VC-E2 is more hands on and requires a higher level of attention than an Ultrasonic cleaner. It works good but I certainly don't care to manually clean one side at a time then flip then clean again. It's just one of many choices in the record cleaning arsenal I suppose but I would never go back to it.
The bottom line is, you can’t do anything about damaged vinyl-period. Each time you play a record, the hard diamond stylus on the soft vinyl will cause a certain degree of damage. It may be minute, but it’s there. In these samples, you’re hearing primarily damage to the vinyl. I don’t care how great ANY record cleaning machine is, or how much it costs, it WON’T erase damage that has been done to the record. The most you can expect is that it removes all the gunk that’s on the surface and in the grooves, and so minimizes surface noise.
The bottom line is this: it’s how a record SOUNDS that’s important. If it wasn’t, we’d all listen to Spotify!!!
What do you think of the Okki Nokki One?
Never used it.
@@MancaveCentral1 what about the Humminguru?
I have been a vinyl dealer for over 40 years now and I have never found a machine that was any good, I ended up just cleaning by hand and using mine to suck off the fluid and dry the record, as wiping them with a cloth just pushes rubbish back into the grooves.
very interesting tests and it goes in the direction, sadly, that if a record isn´t quiet in itself you can´t do much against it. A little bit of dust removing but no miracles.
I´working in 2-step, ultrasonic box for 6 records and a LEVAR TWIN which is a clone of the even more expensive Clearaudio Double Matrix.
This combo works fast and nice together BUT i still would say "deeper dirt" doesn´t get removed, really frustrating for that amount of money.
I´m not sure if I should keep that Levar, it is nice that both sides get cleaned and dried but problematic LPs don´t get silent with this machine.
Still wonder if it is ever possible but I do have some dealers who almost always do send me 100% noicefree LPs which I think is amazing.
Maybe it is all their knowledge of grading the vinyl. Maybe it is the form they are cleaning. Some use the Clearaudio Double Matrix, some different Ultrasonics.
Still haven´t given up my search for a GREAT cleaning machine because I love that noise-free vinyl so much and I don´t want to buy 10 copies till i finally get a real Mint or NM
Movie Fan does the "Deep Dirt" even exist?
People have to understand the limitations of the vinyl format. It is a PHYSICAL media where a diamond digs through grooves, and these will wear over time. With LPs even minuscule scratches will most likely be heard, because with these objective tests you are especially looking for them, looking for errors and comparing it to clean digital. You have to have a loud cut with with deep and wide grooves, max play time of 5-6 minutes per vinyl side to really get groove durability and best sonic qualities that can be compared to digital, and even that doesn't really compare, because the physical limitations of cutting sound to grooves. There are dozens of different factors in making a vinyl record and playing it, anything starting from the engineer who cuts the master, the gear used in that process, to the metal works and skills needed to press the actual vinyl. There is a whole lot of different quality raw vinyl that is used to press records etc, not all are the same quality. A batch from one factory's vinyl pellets when pressed to record can sound different than another company's raw vinyl etc. Then you have the stereo system that a person is using for listening; Their turntable, the adjustments of the tone arm, the cartridge, anti-skate, is it belt driven or direct drive etc etc. So you can see it's almost a miracle that modern vinyl records sound as good as they do! Someone pointed out that these modern reissues are not so good quality sometimes, and that is also true unfortunately. A whole lot of engineering workmanship and skills vanished in the early 90s, when vinyl was declared "dead" and people retired from the business. That is why you can usually hear that the absolutely best vinyl pressings are from the 80's, because the technology and the people doing vinyl records were at the peak of the format's evolution.
Don't think the BBC will be replacing their 3 Keith Monks RCMs anytime soon..
Those are very nice. I was looking at those a while back dreaming I could test one out.
I have been waiting over 2 years for spare parts for my Keith Monks, customer service is terrible
@@kennthomif BBC needed their machines serviced monks would go and service them himself... The class system I'm afraid... they shud shift production to China.. The Asians r together
.imho these records do have other issues ...bad pressing, not centered, warped, high surface noise...even if you remove the dust and pressing residues they will sound better of course.
If a used record was played with a bad needle, then it’s permanently damaged and no RCM can do anything about it
No machine, no manual cleaning will restore a scratched beaten up record. Record cleaning, any record ckeaning, is for removing dust, oils from fingerprints, residues from mishandling and storage, mold, and other conditions that relate to residues on the surface and grooves. Your testing with scrap records does not qualify as cleaning. You want to restore records and that is nearly impossible no matter which method you use. I have acquired a VPI Cyclone machine, a Degritter Mark II, and a KLAUDIO ultrasonic cleaning machine. I do follow a very thorough cleaning process and can attest to the performance of these machines. But I know that records that are scratched or beaten will never sound well no matter how much effort I put on them.
Follow up comment.. Ur use of softwear recordings before and after.. Beats all the subjective reviews I'm afraid.... It's an oscilloscope for vinyl.... Irrefutible
Once again The Degritter fails to impress me
1:10 😂😂😂
Windex and paper towels would do a better job.
For this reason alone is why I insist on Original press Vintage Vinyl in VG+ to NM Condition. The Old School Engineers get full credit for their analog expertise & sound quality.
I definitely backed off on buying records. The original analog sourced vinyl before being digitally sourced and "remastered" is the way to go. It's the absolute closest a listener can get to the artist and their original documented work.
@@MancaveCentral1 I agree 💯% I can tell a huge difference in sound quality with original press & the records I have from the 1950s have an even richer sound. If you aren't currently running a mixer with your setup you may try one to filter your sound.