Excellent review (the only one on RUclips for the Humminguru worth watching thus far). I received my HG about a week ago (Melbourne Australia). So far, I have cleaned five 12" records, 4 were purchased new (ranging from 40 -10 years old but reasonably well looked after) and one was a used 70's record in reasonable condition. I ran a couple using only distilled water (DW) and 3 with 1:200 dilution of Kodak PhotoFlo wetting agent I use for film development (I know that contravenes the warranty!). I used a 5 min US & 10 min dry. For the DW only runs I had to run an extra 5 min of drying time to completely remove all water drops but the wetting agent improved drying times so 10 min was enough. My preliminary observations are that all the records came out pretty clean (by visual inspection) and with eliminated static. They all seemed to sound better after the wash. Quieter and improved detail (both upper and lower frequencies). Most noticeably, the sound was more "relaxed" and the 3D soundstage definitely improved. If I had to, I would say the Photoflo treatment gave slightly improved effects over the DW only-but wasn't a huge difference sonically. Overall, I'm pleased with the performance of the HG for its cost. Any really dirty records I would likely do a pre-clean, but if you have a reasonably maintained collection I think it's fine and very convenient (my spin clean sits in the cupboard unused for ages!). I have ordered some GrooveWasher G-sonic and Tergikleen and look forward to testing these specialist record cleaning agents when they arrive. In the meantime, the PhotoFlo is my go to wash for the HG. I'm happy with the purchase so far-but time may tell.
2 года назад+3
Check the review from Techmoan, it’s really worth it.
A quality tergitol is really all you need for a surfactant. I don't like adding other detergents as you really don't know what's in there, and if it will leave a residue. I also do a rinse cycle after washing with a surfactant and I get excellent results. I'd imagine the HG could do the same.
@@thevinylattack I’m looking forward to trying the Record cleaners with the Humminguru when they arrive. According to the manufacturer Tergikleen is tergitol-based and is completely safe for records. Used and recommended by US Library of Congress and Canadian Inst. of Archives for their record archives. I did check the MSDS for Photoflo and the ingredients are Triton X100 (a non Ionic detergent widely discussed as a US cleaning agent) and polyethylene glycol. These ingredients seem fine to me for record cleaning. I do think using a cleaning additive is the way to go with the HG which as you describe being a lower powered US cleaner probably benefits with this bit of help. 😀
@@thevinylattack I have a humming Guru too and couldn't care less about the warranty void. I believe it will need a small amount of surfactant or wetting agent. I use a similar product to Photo-flow. Ilford ilfotol has less additional chemicals and is generally accepted as a better product than Photo-flow, it also says its safe on plastics, vinyls etc. Early use indications are positive. My only worry for the Humming guru is draining the record whilst it sits in the small amount of water may allow the particles released and suspended in the relatively small amount of water to settle on the record surface as the water is drained. I am going to try spritzing with pure water before drying as well some other experiments by adding a small quantity of 99.9% Isopropyl to the pure water and Ilfotol. It may overall prove to be a bit less convenient than lets say a Degritter but I will put up with this because over $3000 is for me unreasonable, making the Guru a cost effective cleaning method. At this price I might even get another one to separate and/or combine the processes but I will think it through first. I am generally happy that the kick-starter brief has been fulfilled and with integrity which is more than can be said for some I've seen in recent times.
@@Gez492 I’m pretty sure that Tergikleen does not recommend using any alcohol with its product. It negates the tergikleen so effectiveness. I believe I saw this in there instructions on how to use.
Thanks for the video. Great job. I received mine yesterday and have cleaned 3 reasonably noisy records. I compared the results to my former system with a SpinClean. The HG did a markedly better job, for me. The records were quieter though, as you noted, they came out needing a another spin and light micro cloth wipe for a couple of drops still on the record. But they played fine with almost no pops or groove grunge I’m happy with the purchase so far.
You testing methodology is really good. And the detailed delivery of the data gathered by said mthodology is greatly appreciated. Well done, thanks, and keep up the good work.
Best review yet on the Humminguru. I have the Humminguru. I also have a wet/vacuum cleaner. I have new and others records bought from charity shops and ebay. All my records were already cleaned using a wet cleaning option. I used the Humminguru with a surfactant initially and later with the degritter cleaning fluid (0.7ml for a Humminguru tank). I found audio test results were that bass instruments were better resolved and there was more information retrieved as well. I only used the 5 minute clean/dry cycle. Yes the records were not fully dry. I think for the UK price of about £360 including shipping this is good addition to my record cleaning options. My T/T is a LP12 with Keel, Ekos SE, Karousel, Kystal MC and Avid Pulses phone pre-amp.
Ah- the timing of that shirt is most interesting! And so is this video! I’ve been waiting for your review of this for close to a year now. I just received my Humminguru today and cleaned 5 albums with it. I only wish I had a Degritter to compare it to. My plan is to do an initial clean using my Project VCE Cleaning machine followed by this device. I do think cleaning solutions make a difference and those formulas will be used on the Project with a follow up with distilled water in the Humminguru. Your test with dust was valid although I would always do a manual clean before ultrasonic in a real-world situation. Results for me varied because not all of mine had my precleaning routine. It comes down to my expectations: I don’t expect perfection from any cleaning machine- only improvement. A difference I noted was that my records were completely dry after the default “double” cycle.
THANK YOU very much for this! So glad there finally is an in depth review of this machine. I almost took the bait when they were in the kickstarter process but I had just purchased an unltrasonic machine and a Record Doctor VI (for drying) so I decided to pass on it. You commented that it is not fair to compare a $450 (+/-) machine to a 3 thousand dollars one but I say it is fair because essentially, Humminguru claims to do just as good as the others. I think, based on your review and some others, that the Humminguru is good for brand new records or slightly dirty ones - but for records that you get from a thrift store, or ebay, this will not be good enough and you'd need to put the good old elbow grease into it.
Thanks for the video. I have had mine for about a week and I am not disappointed in my purchase. Maybe it’s about expectations. I never figured that the HG would perform anywhere near as good as the Degritter. But there was no way I was going to spend 3-4k to clean my records.
I know it's 2 years later, but I'm curious if you used just distilled water or have you tried it again with a surfactant like HumminGuru's or GrooveWasher? BTW -- the HG does have a thermal shut-off if the water exceeds a pre-determined temp.
I have tried it with a surfactant (I thought that was in the video, but it's been a while and I don't feel like watching it right now) but the results were the same. Dirt is pushed around more than moved, and it takes several cycles to get clean. That's on a very dirty record, however.
I'm using a HG and put two cycles through it and it really does clean records well. Very happy. I like to clean record physically with spin clean (or similar) prior to HG so no issues with debris in the tank.
Gotta say, I haven't had any of the same issues with dust on my unit. My guess is that it's related to airborne dust + the extended drying cycle producing static charge on the record. You also didn't mention that the Degritter and the Harbor Freight have tank volumes 4x and 7x that of the Humminguru, respectively. I wouldn't expect the HG to require the same number of transducers or the same active wattage to energize a much smaller amount of water.
I made the same experiences. Given the price I'm okay with the performance of the HG. Thanks for this great test. I would recommend it (the video and the Hummin Guru).
Thanks for the video, Chris! This video is very timely, as I received my HumminGuru today. I’ve only cleaned 3 or four records, but I came away with many of the same conclusions. On a newer record, I did notice an improvement in sonics. But on an OG copy of Pink Floyd Relics, which was well loved in its day according to my neighbor who gave it to me. It was pretty crunchy. The HG made some modest improvements in crunchiness, but never as clean as I have seen with the Degritter that I’ve been fortunate to use at a local audio shop. I guess, for the money, it was worth it, but I am slightly disappointed, as I hoped it would be a giant killer.
What I’ve done is if the record is insanely mucky, I’ll give it a really good hand wash (spray on vinyl cleaner, scrub, then rinse) then after that I put it in the HG and it comes out flawless. Even just a quick rinse with distilled water before you put it in the cleaner makes a big difference. But yes, it’s disappointing the HG isn’t as efficient without some extra steps, makes me just want the Degritter.
@@thevinylattack A strong cavitation could harm the Lp plastic, so, it’s a trade-off. Is it better to remove the biggest part of the dirt by hand or using a strong cavitation, risking to damage the Lp?
@@CapitanHarlockisback The Degritter can do both without the strong cavitation so I guess I'm good there. The HG however needs some help to clean up to what I'd say is an acceptable standard.
I just purchase one and received it rather quickly. Big plus. I’ve also just finished cleaning all of my LPs with a Okki Nokki machine. At this point I’m hoping that the Huminguru gets what I may have missed on the smallest of particulates. It is a bit of work but I think well worth it in the long run of musical bliss. Thank you for a wonderfully detailed review.
Thank you for the excellent review, and I really appreciate the USB microscope shots because that's something I was really curious about. I actually received one of the first HumminGuru units and I've cleaned about 30 records with it so far. My results are 100% consistent with yours - a record with hair, dust, bits of paper from the sleeve comes out with the detritus more evenly distributed across the surface. Hair is especially difficult for the Humminguru and you're pretty much stuck having to manually remove it otherwise it will survive many wash cycles. I also noticed that in some cases, the record doesn't emerge from the water wet - it looks dry as a bone. Other times there is clearly water in the grooves; I have no idea what's going on. I thought that it was because I had used the same water several times and perhaps it had less oxygen in it from being agitated by the transducers, but this happens even with fresh water. The drying cycle is extremely frustrating because it leaves HUGE water droplets on the record surface and as you pointed out, you could run the drying cycle as long as you want and they will never dry. And no matter how lint-free your cloth is, you will always leave some fibers behind when you dab those droplets - super frustrating. I decided to try using it in conjunction with my spin clean by first cleaning with the spin clean and then rinsing/drying with the HumminGuru. That works well, but, I can't help but feel that I could achieve the same results with a second spin clean (which I typically do) and air drying. The only thing the HumminGuru does is automate the clean cycle and "sort of" dry the record, and is that worth nearly $400? I don't think so. I'll still use it because it does work and I've already paid for it, but if I had it all to do over again I'd put that $400 in the Degritter fund.
I think the HG will still do a much better job at deep cleaning than something like a spin clean, but as you've seen, you need a pre-wash to really make it effective.
@@thevinylattack Yep, agree. The spin clean is a huge hassle to use, I will most likely use the brush + surfactant method you recommended. Thanks again!
Thank you for taking the time to test and review this unit. It seems that if there will be a v. 2, they will need to address some of the issues. The fact that it leaves so much particulates on the record after the wash/dry cycle is not very encouraging to me. It would be interesting to compare it with a general purpose US cleaner like the VEVOR Commercial Ultrasonic Cleaner 6L with record bracket which together costs almost the same.
@@thevinylattack good comment, there is still an unknown about the damage ultrasonics can do to pvc in vinyl records, using anything that is overly industrial is likely a big mistake. i've noticed some youtuber are using a default ultrasonic used to jewelry and added a rotating holder. the ultrasonic tanks are extremely cheap, but long term damage is a high risk. these are questions that will get answered in time i believe as the cleaning market develops.
@@varsityathlete9927 There was a study done (that I can't seem to find at the moment) that showed the effects on vinyl when subjected to long-term ultrasonic waves using a utility-style cleaner. It confirmed my suspicions and was more than enough to steer me away from those types of machines.
Very fair review. I’m loving mine, but do understand it to be a low power ultrasonic cleaner. I use mine in conjunction with a soft camel hair shaving brush and get amazing results. One quick 2 minute clean only, run over the camel hair brush on both sides then put it into a full auto clean. Haha writing this as I’m listening to your final words :) and you then suggest my solution :) great minds, and all that… 😂
Super glad that you did this review as I was very tempted to get one. That said, I would love to see you do an end-to-end budget record cleaning video that covers the basics.
I'd have to think about how to do such a video. I don't have any of the more budget cleaners in my house so it'd probably have to be more about manual cleaning.
It’s exactly what we paid for. I’ll still use my Loricraft, but all in all, it’s not bad! Great review! Also, add more water than the measuring marks on the reservoir suggest, I think a lot of the dust you see is coming from the uncleaned runout grooves during the interminable drying cycle. I air dried a bunch and it was definitely better. The air filter is pretty weak.
Trust me on this one. Although I haven’t used the HG, I have used other US machines, Okki Nokki, Nitty Gritty, Disc Washer, hand washing, even steam cleaning. NOTHING works as well as a Degritter..
@@michaeltuohy1249 Oh sure. Same way NOTHING drives as well as a Ferrari. My point is that there's no target audience overlap. Nobody who can afford a Ferrari is also going to buy a Mazda and nobody buying a Mazda can afford a Ferrari. Completely different products for completely different audiences.
Got HumminGuru in Australia this week. I had a new reissued 2022 Ozzy Osbourne No More Tears LP and side 3 was unplayable. First record I cleaned was the Side 3 & 4. Distilled water and 2 drops of Kodak Photo-Flo 200 solution and 10 min clean/dry cycle. Then another 5 min clean/dry cycle with only Distilled water. Wow it has brought side 3 back to life. Great machine for the price. Would recommend.
Great review! I’m very happy with mine. I know it voids the warranty, but I use a tiny amount of Spin Clean fluid which helps an incredible amount! I’ll likely get iSonic fluid. I’ve taken to removing the record and giving it a quick wipe dry with a microfiber cloth before it air dries and it always comes out perfectly dry in 5 min. Just a time saving thing. Overall it’s everything I’d hoped for.
Really informative. I have been using a DIY ultrasonic setup for about 4 years so I will compare results when I get my Humminguru (Christmas is coming…). If it does a half decent job then it looks like good value.
@@thevinylattack I have spent some time now with the HG. I also have a “DIY” ultrasonic and a “DIY” RCM. I am impressed by how slick the unit operates. It is also way quieter than my other ultrasonic which uses one of the Chinese 5L tanks and a rotisserie. Using just distilled water, it definitely cleans but tough records will require some elbow grease. A 10 minute drying cycle gets everything except for a couple of drops, which are easy to wipe off.I plan on using it just before playing a record. Since I can’t hear it in my equipment room, I can clean a record while listening, unlike with my other machine, which was noisy even from an adjacent room. Overall, better than expected based on the reading I had done.
Thanks for this! It was really helpful even if sadly discouraging. I was really hoping to find an affordable all-in-one cleaning unit that I could set and forget. We're not there yet apparently.
I have the HumminGuru and I can't say I have experienced some of the issues you have laid out, but I also live in Arizona so a different climate/atmosphere may make a difference. One thing that may make a difference for you is to first clean the record with a Spin Clean and then put it though a 5 minute cycle. By doing that combination, the end result has been comparable or better than any of the other four figure ultra sonic cleaners I have tried by themselves. I am not a chemist, but I think the addition of cleaning with the spin clean solution (flocculating agent) not only gets the bigger pieces of dirt off but it would seem that it also acts as something similar to a surfactant and allows the bubbles to be more effective. Give that a shot.
Hey Chris! How are ya! This may be a bit wordy, my apologies in advance. First of all…great video and go Wolverines! I’ve had it up to HERE with Ohio State winning year after year. This is supposed to be a rivalry for crissakes, but I digress. I think if one already owns a Degritter at this time, not much else in Ultrasonicville is going to compare very favorably…especially with something that’s $2,500.00 cheaper. That’s a big drop which means that the letdown is generally inevitable in most cases. Let’s be honest. It’s like owning a 2009 Ferrari 599 GTO and then driving a Saturn….they are both cars, they both have 4 wheels, they both have engines, they both have brakes, radios and speakers, seats, AC, Heat and windows but… Exactly. Having said all of that I cannot see myself buying the Humminguru as the issues that were pointed out in this video would be big issues for me at $430.00. Some, I’m sure will be very happy with it which is fine. But I’ll pass. You get what you pay for. On the flip side I cannot spend $3,000.00 on a Degritter. In my opinion the price is ridiculous and frankly speaking, I don’t have nearly enough records to justify such an investment anyway. Most of my stuff is CD and digital downloads, records is more of a side hobby of mine. I enjoy all of the formats for different reasons, but I don’t plan on duplicating all of my CD’s with vinyl. At over 1,200 that would cost me a king’s ransom. So what have I been using to clean my records? I’m the proud owner & operator of a Record Doctor VI in a Carbon Fiber wrap which makes it look like a 2021 Chevy Corvette if it were a rectangular box with four small feet instead of wheels. Which also means that my Record Doctor looks like it’s moving even though it’s stand still….😜 My results from the Record Doctor VI cleaning machine have been quite excellent in my opinion. It’s cleaned new and used vinyl (even vinyl from the 1950’s) quite masterfully. At $299 I can’t recommend it enough to those on a budget or simply against spending a LOT of money. The trick with the Record Doctor, for me, is using a very good quality record cleaning fluid. (The “Record Doctor” brand fluid is good but “TM-8 Super Record Cleaning Fluid” is much better based on my observations) Having said all of that, as is the usual with your channel, you delivered another great video with down-to-earth entertainment, transparency, fairness, and as always great critical thinking. And THAT is called Integrity which is why I keep coming back here. Well done Sir!
I purchased a ultrasonic cleaner with LP kit for $300 (Amazon). It cleans 7 LPs at one time. Its awesome and works great. I have purchased used LPs covered it dirt and grime and once cleaned it looked almost new. Best thing I have ever purchased for my LP collection.
Very well thought out presentation. There is significantly more to records and ultrasonics and record cleaning as presented in the Audiophile Society of NJ recent zoom. Just as noted where a very prominent German made 40 KHz sonic fails the universal aluminum foil test when Aluminum foil is made to replicate a record as to the presence of cavitation and uses primarily 4 rotating scrubbers, your tests confirm where these machines whether 40 or 120 khz do not use the principle of cavitation. Anyone can replicate your test by building a frame and gluing a sheet of aluminum foil on it. In fact, noted where some manufacturers are using ultrasonic transducers as bubblers to agitate a cleaning solution and thus giving the buyer a false impression. Not seeing the buyer benefit from cavitational action. The models inferred to can surface clean at best as where the cleaning medium and the record both have the same electrical charge and repel each other as like charges repel. You also mention also external power adapters. Used to avoid product safety testing to meet UL, CSA and CE norms, and listed as an external power source only, use thereof is therefore misrepresenting any electrical product approvals or FCC emissions testing, it would seem, and as you noted they cannot adequately power transducers needed to generate even cavitation. The discussion of wattage warrants more review as these external laptop style power blocks cannot produce the power needed to supply motors, ultrasonic transducers, heaters and the like for a cleaning machine that uses cavitation. One can review the current rating output of these blocks then use common sense to calculate current draw. Ultrasonic design precludes where Ultrasonic action and resulting cavitation occurs from bottom mounted transducers and not side mounted. If an ultrasonic was designed correctly using cavitation as the desired effect indeed where one should see evenly distributed gentle dimpling on the aluminimum foil from the outer edge of the record to the dead wax area. Anything less is indicative of no effects of cavitation. In fact a 120 khz unit tested shows no dimpling of the aluminum foil record. While this review is of a single record cleaner, I would like to comment where systems that process more than one record simulateously sees the effects of cavitation be attenuated by processing multiple records that are skewered on a rotisserie style DIY looking assembly. Reflected standing waves nullify the cavitation. Impossible to process 12 records in a 6 liter sonic spaced at a quarter inch apart. A simple foil test also would confirm this. To matters of filters, dirt, dust, and fungus, they are 3 to 5 microns in diameter. Measured pores of filters used sees 85 to 280 microns, not capable of any filtration. That is why water needs to be changed out frequently depending on the provenance of the records being processed and condition of the record let alone where the water should be discarded daily. Very good analysis of this machine.
Seems like this would pair well with a Spin Clean or similar product, where you do the initial cleaning that way to get the obvious surface dust and particulates off, and then run it through the HummingGuru as a second pass, to make sure that it gets cleaner than the first method will allow. I could see investing in this in that scenario, as it's WAY cheaper than spending thousands on the DeGritter, and far more automated and convenient than buying my own off the shelf cavitation machine, and trying to rig up my own configuration.
Mine is due to ship to Oz any day now, and my expectation is that it performs a bit better then my SpinClean, without all the effort that that involves. I'm happy to pay the cost just so I don't have to go through the whole process of setting up the SpinClean and manually turning all the 4 for $10 records that my wife buys at the local record fairs, or to clean the few brand new albums I occasionally get.
@@thevinylattack another good comment Attack, spinclean can do a lot of removal, but not the deep stuff. its why im keeping the spinclean, but looking for ultrasonic solution to improve the cleaning process. :)
supplementing the water with something safe to clean vinyl seems to work the best to increase the cleaning power of this device as i have seen posted many places regarding this machine. i wish he would have done that and posted the results as he has the microscope to see results. good video about a mid level record cleaning device.
Next step is running the machine with various concoctions to see if one could achieve better results than distilled water. Surfactants and detergents might help.
A surfactant might indeed help and I may revisit the testing using it, but that would be all. I don't much care for the proprietary blends made by cleaners out there and it'd be too hard to test them all.
I wonder if using the cleaning fluid that comes with the Degritter would benefit the HumminGuru? I know the manual says to not use any additives, but I am curious.
I don't even just the Degritter fluid in the Degritter. I do a wash with water and a surfactant, and then a rinse with water. I didn't do those tests here though because I felt most people would just use water.
@@thevinylattack Completely understandable. Perhaps the engineers of the HumminGuru will update the product, and increase the output of the cavitation.
Degritter all day imo, best vinyl audio purchase I’ve made all year. Short term finance it if you have to, I have over 1100 cycles on my machine and still works like a dream.
Thanks for the video! Ironically it did verify my decision on the HumminGuru, as the differences in regards to other machines seem to be more quantitative than qualitative. I've been looking for something to speed up my cleaning process (manual cleaning and rinsing on an old turntable + Record Doctor V), which just took too long to accomodate other aspects of life. I'm still using the RD V to vacuum off any dust and dirt that might've been loosened but not removed by the HG. After that the records get an additional short drying cycle to completely dry them off (this solved another problem I had, because the vacuum always left some humidity behind). I'm very happy, but I also don't subject extremely dirty records to the HG. If they may arise, I'll get out the old gear first. That being said, I often do come across very dusty albums, and the combination of HG and RD really work wonders with these, even on a single cleaning cycle.
Really been looking forward to your review on this machine, as it was your original video (which I beleive was your second or third video that brought me to this channel). I was also one of the original backers of this machine (No. 403) and received the machine several weeks ago now, and much like most have been very underwhelmed with it, as I was hoping to replace using my Okki Nokki or Knosti manual cleaners, but sadly it jsut doesn't cut the mustard maybe because you are un-able to use a Surfactant? but either way I doubt it's ever going to become a one stop cleaner, instead I now put my records through my Knosti (as it's a lot quicker than the okki Nokki and is about as good except it doesn't dry the records) with a surfactant, prior to putting it through the Guru, and this generally does the job for me. I did try using it on a couple off records which hadn't been cleaned prior and put my results on the Facebook Owners group, but I basically got labasted by a lot of other owners who all said it would never clean a film of a record or the mould that can sometimes build on old records which haven't been stored properly, fair enough on the Mould, but the film was removed but only in a 2/3" area in the centre of the records, so the film was still covering the first 1" or so and the last 1" or so. People said I was expecting too much from an UC, but other people have removed these things perfectly well on other UC's so I don't think I was? Anyway I'm lucky in that I don't end up with dust all over my record after putting it through the Guru, but that's probably because of putting it through the Knosti first, so basically I would class the Guru as a Polisher (as there is no doubting how shiny records come out of it), as opossed to a cleaner, I would liken it to washing a car and then adding the wax afterwards to make it shine, that is what the Guru is the Waxer for records.
I'd say using the system you are is indeed the best way to go about it with the HG. You might consider at some point saving and bit and then selling all the cleaners you have to get a Degritter. I assure you, it will do the kind of clean you've been looking for.
I just purchased a HumminGuru, if for nothing else as a good rinse after a manual liquinox/citranox/tergikleen scrub. The documentation doesn't specify but it's standard practice to degas the water beforehand. I wonder if that would have helped the dust test results?
Being that a degas is simply running the machine for a couple of minutes without a record, I can't see any improvement. I ran the machine plenty of times, so in the end it was indeed degassed.
The only additive I every personally use is a tergitol surfactant. I could revisit some test using that, but I don't care for the 'major brand' wash additives.
While it's not fair to compare a $400 Humminguru to a $3000 Degritter, the Humminguru isn't a good value if it doesn't clean well. The other video reviews I've seen are done by people who are coming from a $100 Spin Clean, not a $3000 Degritter. They conclude that the HG provides comparable results to the Spin Clean, usually, but with less work. But your video makes clear that many records will require multiple cleaning cycles in the HG, and/or pre-cleaning. So maybe the Spin Clean isn't so bad. The Kirmuss for around $900 is a true ultrasonic machine that cleans as well or better than the Degritter, but it's a manual machine and you have to air-dry the records. So, much more work. But I'd rather pay $900 for true ultrasonic and excellent results than $400 for something that's "probably" ultrasonic and requires almost as much work as a manual machine for results that aren't as good. I'm lucky that I can afford the Degritter, so I don't have to worry about any of this. But most people cannot, and I was really hoping the HG would bring outstanding ultrasonic cleaning results to a much wider group of vinyl enthusiasts. One final thing: It's clear that you've put a ton of careful thought into your testing, and into putting together this video. I'm grateful, as is everyone else who watches this. I will post a link to your video in my social media & vinyl forums. Lots of people will benefit from seeing it.
The Kirmuss is dangerous to records and can't touch what a Degritter can do in the way of cleanliness, but you're spot on in the comparison of the HG and the Degritter. I still think the HG can out perform a Spin Clean with a pre-wash, but hopefully I can test that soon.
Ultrasound cleans in layers so it's important that the record looks clean before using ultrasonics in order that the grooves be cleaned. Otherwise you need to do prolonged, or multiple shorter, cycles for the bubbles to clean inside the grooves, as you discovered.
Nice review. I've been think of adding an ultrasonic to my cleaning regimen. Right now I use an Okki Nokki with L'Art du Son for the first pass and distilled water for the second pass. Then final air dry in a wire rack. I'm thinking it might make sense to do a vacuum clean first with surfactant, and then put it in the Humminguru. That would only add about 2 mins to the process, get most of the big gunk and save doing the 2nd ultrasonic wash. One thing that does not get stressed enough is that dirt/dust is not the cause of ALL noise problems on discs. Poor pressings, rough handling, and stylus wear all make a huge difference. New records can sound terrible and visually awful used records can sound surprisingly good despite their outward appearance. I think the goal should be "much better" not "perfection". Also, the brain is a really effective filter for getting rid of surface noise. After a while, I might not care about some noise if the music's really good.
@@thevinylattack Interesting. I'd think the vacuum cleaner would get the biggest offenders first so that the HG doesn't have to work as hard. If you have both a vacuum RCM and the HG, perhaps you could try it both ways and let us know which works better.
Mine works well worth the investment. If its really humid there are some water spots after drying, but not many. Overall its well worth the 400.00 or so. I think your being a but harsh on your review. but very complete. JG
Great review, as usual! By chance I bought and tested my first cleaning machine last sunday, the Pro-Ject VC-S (used, but in apparently good working order). I had thought to complement liquid cleaning with ultrasonic cleaning, and it seems I wasn't the only one! Perhaps in the near future. A side issue: were the noise measurements you made in dBC rather than dBA for some special reason? Normally "A" filter measurements have a better relationship with the typical auditory sensation, and "C" filter gives additional weight to the low frequencies (which in this case shouldn't have much influence, quite the contrary).
I've owned my HumminGuru now for about 3 weeks and cleaned about a dozen 12" LPs. I largely agree with this review and appreciate his microscopic look at the albums. With the naked eye, this clearly cleans dirty albums with the distilled water alone. I found that adding a few drops of Spin Clean cleaning fluid, which I believe is just a very mild dishwashing soap to the ~cup of water in the HumminGuru, made a huge difference in the resulting clean. What I found was that the water alone didn't remove used album finger prints. This makes sense, as the dishwashing soap reduces the surface tension and removes the oils making the cleaning process much better (visually with the naked eye) in my experience The part that I am perhaps the least happy with is the drying process. I consistently had a few & very small drops on both sides of the LP thus requiring the use of a drying cloth. All in all, given that is is 1/6th the cost of a degritter, it seems like a wonderful value. I would buy it again but it does require more participation in the cleaning process than the degritter which in my experience is mostly a hands off process.
Thanks for your great review of this record cleaner. The use of carpet cleaner to look at particulate removal may not have worked as well as the vacuum dust. It is likely that the carpet cleaner dissolves in water and is no longer in particulate form once it is run through the record cleaner. The ultrasonic cavitation should be a powerful aid in dissolving the carpet cleaner powder. Otherwise, great tests and video.
Gee thanks...now I am lusting after a Degritter. 😮I am ruined, just cannot settle for an ok product when I know there is something A LOT better and more effective to be had. However, a divorce would cost me quite a bit more, so I will wait, and lust. A BIG "Thank you" for taking the time to make and edit these video's. I find them very helpful as I get back into it. Resurrecting my old electronics/records from the mid 70's has been fun. My missing Zerostat led me here. I always wondered if that thing actually worked, all my friends laughed and doubted it. Now I know
I don't understand the problem with the surface dirt. Rinse the record under the tap! We keep our records in sleeves and clean them regularly. The issue is that wiping an LP with a microfibre cloth and a shot of distilled water/isopropanol/surfactant doesn't get deep into the groves. The images seem to suggest that the deep groove cleaning is done. And we didn't get to hear the record before and after to get a sense of the reduction of noise. One magnitude order of difference cheaper though... that's moving in the right direction.
When all is said and done, I'll stick with my 3 dollar home made vacuum system. Has not let me down and has actually improved the sound of one album I paid the local record store to ultrasonically clean.
@@johnholmes912 I agree, it's really funny but a year or so ago my son and myself were starting to clean all the records from my parents and mine from the 70's and 80s and I asked my dad how he used to clean them and he grabbed his tshirt and made a cleaning motion. Crazy how things have changed. Granted in retrospect all the old albums have surface scratches but what can you do.
@@rolkinn pretty much just a replica of the vinyl vac system, with high quality velvet that I cut into strips and adhered with double sided tape. Then a normal super soft paint pad. I do it in 2 steps one with cleaning solution then vacuum, then a rinse with distilled water and separate paint pad then vacuum again. Takes time but worth it. Of course I just built the lazy susan as directed on vinyl vac website. Whole system not including vacuum was like 10 dollars.
Great review! Does anyone use Matto brush for vinyl cleaning? I think I will give it a shot. More bristles the better result? I think I will try on some cheap vinyl.
HG must’ve been updated since this review because it have a safety feature now if water temperature is too high it will not run or just pause during the cycle until the temperature drops below a certain point and the drying cycle is working properly on my machine records completely dry after regular auto wash cycle but the drying cycle is very loud now compared to the reviewed unit. I bought my machine from Amazon in August 2023 if anyone interested.
Ive bought records since the 70s and only ever used a soft felt wiper on them, so you can imagine the filth thats accumulated what do you suggest before going through a cleaning cycle on my new purchase
IMO a RCM needs to use a record cleaning solution applied with a goat hair brush to dissolve the groove contaminants, and any finger prints from careless handling by the uninitiated, and must have a vacuum cleaning process to suck all the build up of gunk out of the grooves. When you look at the grooves in some of these really old records some of this crud has been built up over the years and almost fused to the groove because of the high temperatures caused by the stylus friction and needs some solution to resolve all the fusion "contusion". 😉
As for power, I don’t think it is so easy to compare. For example, the big tub ultrasonics such as the DIY and Kirmuss use 4l of water whereas the Humminguru uses 400ml (10x less). I don’t know how much water is in the Degritter - the tank takes 1.3l and if all of it is pumped in then it’s 3x the amount of water
@@thevinylattack Given the DG uses 120KHz, it’s going to naturally penetrate deeper even without a surfactant. I ordered a HG just for fun and will run it with water and tergikleen (ie tergitol) in a mild solution. We shall see
I was wondering if you have seen/heard of the Humminguru small bottle? it's an addon from the machine itself, cost me $30 and it should do about 1000 records. Totally changed my opinion of this machine and now I will put my HG + Small Bottle against any other US cleaner out there and for the money - it's the champ!
While I'm happy it's working for you, no fluid on earth will make that machine perform at the level of things like the Degritter. Possibly even a vacuum cleaner.
I compared it to the project VC-E vacuum cleaner and HG gets records much cleaner but it’s like a finishing touch the vacuum cleaner gets the majority of dirt out first and then HG do the delicate cleaning that vacuum left behind. There’s quite a built up of dirt/gunk embedded into the grooves that’s brushing and vacuuming is not always going to work unless maybe soaking records in something to dissolve the gunk which might harm the record surface as well. That’s what HG is good for the so called invisible micro dirt and one can always just run couple long clean only cycles to get the challenging record clean. In my case a normal 5 minutes auto cycle is enough to refresh my well used records and then I can always start with Project auto cleaning vacuum and finish it with HG and that’s giving the best overall results no matter how filthy the record is.
So, you used the Degritter to clean an already cleaned lp and, surprisingly, it cleaned it better. You omitted to say that the Degritter use some cleaning solution to be added to the distilled water. A fair comparison, in my opinion, should be using two comparably dirt records, using the same cleaning fluid, and a microscope after that.
The HG couldn't clean the record as nice in three tries and the Degritter did in one. I don't expect them to be on par, but the HG isn't even close. I also used no cleaning solution for either. Just distilled water.
I have an original Nitty Gritty Cleaning machine. It does a fabulous job quickly. When they are fairly clean I will just use Last cleaner and if I am storing I use the Last preserver solution. I guess by now my nitty gritty would be classified an antique. Oh yea......Go Blue!
I’m def not an expert, but from what I’m reading on google the ultrasonic power figure seems to be most important when considering the volume, or watts/gallon ratio. It seems that many of the cleaners have the power scale to the volume of fluid, and small capacity cleaners like this one seem to be 30-50w on average. I used to own a small capacity ultrasonic jewelry cleaner from sharper image that’s probably in the 30w range (or less) and it did a surprisingly great job with jewelry. Not sure if that’s accurate or helpful, just what I’m reading. I worry about the labels getting wet on occasion with this unit.
@@thevinylattack If it isn't achieving cavitation then what is removing the debris from the record grooves as your photos in the video clearly show had happened? Surely just slowly spinning a record through water vibrating isn't going to accomplish much.
Just picked one up. Works great for me. I only buy new or NM originals- no flea market records- so most of my vinyl is semi clean to start. I just can not justify 3k on a cleaner. Would rather spend that on gear or more records.
Great review...... Comparing the effectiveness of the HumminGuru with the Degritter is somewhat unfair, not because of the price difference by the way, but because the Degritter runs at 120khz it will always do a better job because at that frequency the water cavitation bubbles get deeper into the grooves than the larger40khz cav bubbles in the HumminGuru. I use a unit that has switchable 40/80/120khz frequency, and I use all three, starting with 40khz ending with 120khz for 5 minutes each and using another 120khz unit for rinsing. Units with 120khz transducers are much more costly because of the much higher cost of the 120khz transducers, The HumminGuru is a good starting point into ultrasonics for those who cant afford or justify the expense of a better unit.
@@thevinylattack You could sort of say that. The base unit I use with its adjustable transducers is four times the price of the standard 40khz tank but works much better. I use it to do multiple records with a calculated gap between the records. Most of the multi record units have the LP's too close together for the cavitation to work properly. Eg: 6litre tank no more than 4 LP's evenly spaced. 10litre tank no more than 8 records equally spaced. I have had a degritter, after it had problem under warranty it was super difficult to get it repaired or replaced here in Australia. the store I bought it from went bust at start of covid lockdowns, the Germans at the factory were impossible to deal with, and I speak fluent German, but they kept saying see the Australian dealer. I had a friend of mine who is an electronics whiz to look at it, he repaired it, improved it, and bought it from me. I built my new multi frequency unit that works better, now making a drying unit for it. Enjoy the music/
@@thevinylattack You are right, the address on the box my unit came from was in Germany, I know a few Estonians here in Australia and they all speak a version of Ggerman, so I could havde contacted them in Estonia anyway my techo fixed the unit and it has worked well since, including its drying cycle. my drying unit is also now working and it actually works better than the degritter, does 8 LP's at once using the same spindle that is used in the Ultrasonic unit. Once a few changes are incorporated we may be looking at marketing the units. It actually works better than the degritter and the Audio desk and is still cheaper.
Great review! I’m surprised more hi fi producers don’t have you give reviews on their products....your so honest and in-depth on your testing,I really appreciate that! Your reviews either help me save or spend my money on this hobby! Gotta love it man.....Go Blue!
Nice review! While you claim that it isn't as good as a Degritter, but that it does work (even just with distilled water). Although a pre clean might be needed for very dirty records, that's exactly what I expected from a machine that costs a fraction of the price. In my opinion, it's not quite fair to compare with D machine not only because of the big price difference but the design itself and its original idea of cleaning records right before playing the music. I dont' see they ever mention VERY dirty record at that Kickstarter scenario, but people simply interpret a totally different concept and expectations. It's more a little machine that brings convenience to people right before playing, and definitely can be a last touch up of cleaning. Thanks again for your input!
They did do a chalk test which would lead people to think it will handle full on dirt filled records in my opinion, but overall, I think it's a viable solution with a bit of extra effort.
Holy moly, that Degritter is 5 grand here! Are there any better but _affordable_ ultrasonic record cleaners? $1000 AUD is max what I would pay. If not, hopefully if I wait for a v.2 of the HumminGuru we'll get one with a better power supply and improvements on other features. A 3 slot machine comes to mind (7", 10", 12") instead of only 12" + included adapters.
@@thevinylattack Thanks anyway. Fingers crossed, this cheap Chinese one will prompt more price competition from the other companies currently charging a ridiculous $5k to the "average" vinyl enthusiast. If vinyl is making anywhere near the comeback they claim they are going to have to make ultrasonic cleaners for more than just the Musk's & the Bezos' of this world.
Really good review! I‘ve ordered it a few weeks ago, but after seeing your review, i‘m a bit frustrated! But who knows? Normally my motto is: you get what you pay. But this time, i‘ve made an exception, because the project looks serious …
@@thevinylattack ok, thanks! A good thing is, my records are all in very good condition, i’ve always cleaned them by hand! Otherwise, i will go for a Degritter …😉😆
Very informative. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions of various equipment, it really helps people make a more informed decision to purchase or not. Still not a fan of the cuts, but your content is worth it. Also GO BLUE! What a game. I am originally from Michigan but now find myself living behind enemy lines in Ohio.
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Excellent review (the only one on RUclips for the Humminguru worth watching thus far). I received my HG about a week ago (Melbourne Australia). So far, I have cleaned five 12" records, 4 were purchased new (ranging from 40 -10 years old but reasonably well looked after) and one was a used 70's record in reasonable condition. I ran a couple using only distilled water (DW) and 3 with 1:200 dilution of Kodak PhotoFlo wetting agent I use for film development (I know that contravenes the warranty!). I used a 5 min US & 10 min dry. For the DW only runs I had to run an extra 5 min of drying time to completely remove all water drops but the wetting agent improved drying times so 10 min was enough. My preliminary observations are that all the records came out pretty clean (by visual inspection) and with eliminated static. They all seemed to sound better after the wash. Quieter and improved detail (both upper and lower frequencies). Most noticeably, the sound was more "relaxed" and the 3D soundstage definitely improved. If I had to, I would say the Photoflo treatment gave slightly improved effects over the DW only-but wasn't a huge difference sonically. Overall, I'm pleased with the performance of the HG for its cost. Any really dirty records I would likely do a pre-clean, but if you have a reasonably maintained collection I think it's fine and very convenient (my spin clean sits in the cupboard unused for ages!). I have ordered some GrooveWasher G-sonic and Tergikleen and look forward to testing these specialist record cleaning agents when they arrive. In the meantime, the PhotoFlo is my go to wash for the HG. I'm happy with the purchase so far-but time may tell.
Check the review from Techmoan, it’s really worth it.
A quality tergitol is really all you need for a surfactant. I don't like adding other detergents as you really don't know what's in there, and if it will leave a residue. I also do a rinse cycle after washing with a surfactant and I get excellent results. I'd imagine the HG could do the same.
@@thevinylattack I’m looking forward to trying the Record cleaners with the Humminguru when they arrive. According to the manufacturer Tergikleen is tergitol-based and is completely safe for records. Used and recommended by US Library of Congress and Canadian Inst. of Archives for their record archives. I did check the MSDS for Photoflo and the ingredients are Triton X100 (a non Ionic detergent widely discussed as a US cleaning agent) and polyethylene glycol. These ingredients seem fine to me for record cleaning. I do think using a cleaning additive is the way to go with the HG which as you describe being a lower powered US cleaner probably benefits with this bit of help. 😀
@@thevinylattack I have a humming Guru too and couldn't care less about the warranty void. I believe it will need a small amount of surfactant or wetting agent. I use a similar product to Photo-flow. Ilford ilfotol has less additional chemicals and is generally accepted as a better product than Photo-flow, it also says its safe on plastics, vinyls etc. Early use indications are positive. My only worry for the Humming guru is draining the record whilst it sits in the small amount of water may allow the particles released and suspended in the relatively small amount of water to settle on the record surface as the water is drained. I am going to try spritzing with pure water before drying as well some other experiments by adding a small quantity of 99.9% Isopropyl to the pure water and Ilfotol. It may overall prove to be a bit less convenient than lets say a Degritter but I will put up with this because over $3000 is for me unreasonable, making the Guru a cost effective cleaning method. At this price I might even get another one to separate and/or combine the processes but I will think it through first. I am generally happy that the kick-starter brief has been fulfilled and with integrity which is more than can be said for some I've seen in recent times.
@@Gez492 I’m pretty sure that Tergikleen does not recommend using any alcohol with its product. It negates the tergikleen so effectiveness. I believe I saw this in there instructions on how to use.
Thanks for the video. Great job. I received mine yesterday and have cleaned 3 reasonably noisy records. I compared the results to my former system with a SpinClean. The HG did a markedly better job, for me. The records were quieter though, as you noted, they came out needing a another spin and light micro cloth wipe for a couple of drops still on the record. But they played fine with almost no pops or groove grunge I’m happy with the purchase so far.
I'm glad to hear it's working well for you.
You testing methodology is really good. And the detailed delivery of the data gathered by said mthodology is greatly appreciated. Well done, thanks, and keep up the good work.
Best review yet on the Humminguru. I have the Humminguru. I also have a wet/vacuum cleaner. I have new and others records bought from charity shops and ebay. All my records were already cleaned using a wet cleaning option. I used the Humminguru with a surfactant initially and later with the degritter cleaning fluid (0.7ml for a Humminguru tank). I found audio test results were that bass instruments were better resolved and there was more information retrieved as well. I only used the 5 minute clean/dry cycle. Yes the records were not fully dry. I think for the UK price of about £360 including shipping this is good addition to my record cleaning options. My T/T is a LP12 with Keel, Ekos SE, Karousel, Kystal MC and Avid Pulses phone pre-amp.
I'm glad to hear you're getting good results.
Ah- the timing of that shirt is most interesting! And so is this video! I’ve been waiting for your review of this for close to a year now. I just received my Humminguru today and cleaned 5 albums with it. I only wish I had a Degritter to compare it to. My plan is to do an initial clean using my Project VCE Cleaning machine followed by this device. I do think cleaning solutions make a difference and those formulas will be used on the Project with a follow up with distilled water in the Humminguru. Your test with dust was valid although I would always do a manual clean before ultrasonic in a real-world situation. Results for me varied because not all of mine had my precleaning routine. It comes down to my expectations: I don’t expect perfection from any cleaning machine- only improvement.
A difference I noted was that my records were completely dry after the default “double” cycle.
Your environment might be drier than mine. I couldn't get that fan to dry much.
Look forward your comparison to the Project VCE as I have a Project as well. Jury is out for me on switching to ultrasonic...
@@JR-xk1ky I had one, but I traded it in for my Degritter.
THANK YOU very much for this! So glad there finally is an in depth review of this machine. I almost took the bait when they were in the kickstarter process but I had just purchased an unltrasonic machine and a Record Doctor VI (for drying) so I decided to pass on it. You commented that it is not fair to compare a $450 (+/-) machine to a 3 thousand dollars one but I say it is fair because essentially, Humminguru claims to do just as good as the others. I think, based on your review and some others, that the Humminguru is good for brand new records or slightly dirty ones - but for records that you get from a thrift store, or ebay, this will not be good enough and you'd need to put the good old elbow grease into it.
I'd say that sounds about right.
Was looking forward to this one and you didn’t disappoint.
Thanks Ron, I have to say it was the first time that I actually felt pressure to make an episode.
@@thevinylattack I get it man and I know exactly how you feel. Good job telling it like it is. We need more reviewers like you.
Thanks for the video. I have had mine for about a week and I am not disappointed in my purchase. Maybe it’s about expectations. I never figured that the HG would perform anywhere near as good as the Degritter. But there was no way I was going to spend 3-4k to clean my records.
I didn't have Degritter expectations, but I was a little less than thrilled with the overall performance.
@@thevinylattack Would this be the I believe 40Khz vs 120 Khz?
@@chewingcheung I'm sure that's part of it.
@@thevinylattack is there one you'd recommend first in the same price range?
@@nanchanger No.
I know it's 2 years later, but I'm curious if you used just distilled water or have you tried it again with a surfactant like HumminGuru's or GrooveWasher?
BTW -- the HG does have a thermal shut-off if the water exceeds a pre-determined temp.
I have tried it with a surfactant (I thought that was in the video, but it's been a while and I don't feel like watching it right now) but the results were the same. Dirt is pushed around more than moved, and it takes several cycles to get clean. That's on a very dirty record, however.
@@thevinylattack Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really enjoy your reviews and your no BS take on audio gear and records.
@@richardpena6201 I appreciate the kind words.
I knew I was in a good spot when I seen the Block M. Great video Go Blue!
Welcome aboard!
Another great video! I’m kinda glad I fought the urge to buy one. For now I’ll stick with my Record Doctor.
Same boat.
That seems to be a recurring comment. I'm glad you liked the vid.
I'm using a HG and put two cycles through it and it really does clean records well. Very happy. I like to clean record physically with spin clean (or similar) prior to HG so no issues with debris in the tank.
Thank you for this very comprehensive review!!
My pleasure.
$3000 ITEM VS $300 ITEM .... GREAT REVIEW, THANK YOU!
I JUST GOT ONE TODAY, I HAVEN'T OPENED THE BOX YET.....
so you spent $3000 US...
no..nothing. i got a used humminguru for $100@@happycarlo1
@@happycarlo1 you sure a sh*t spent $3300 if you bought the Degritter Mark III, pal. It's called Google, look into it
Gotta say, I haven't had any of the same issues with dust on my unit. My guess is that it's related to airborne dust + the extended drying cycle producing static charge on the record.
You also didn't mention that the Degritter and the Harbor Freight have tank volumes 4x and 7x that of the Humminguru, respectively. I wouldn't expect the HG to require the same number of transducers or the same active wattage to energize a much smaller amount of water.
You wouldn't think it so but in my experience, more wattage is exactly what it needs.
I made the same experiences. Given the price I'm okay with the performance of the HG. Thanks for this great test. I would recommend it (the video and the Hummin Guru).
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the video, Chris! This video is very timely, as I received my HumminGuru today. I’ve only cleaned 3 or four records, but I came away with many of the same conclusions. On a newer record, I did notice an improvement in sonics. But on an OG copy of Pink Floyd Relics, which was well loved in its day according to my neighbor who gave it to me. It was pretty crunchy. The HG made some modest improvements in crunchiness, but never as clean as I have seen with the Degritter that I’ve been fortunate to use at a local audio shop. I guess, for the money, it was worth it, but I am slightly disappointed, as I hoped it would be a giant killer.
Those have been my results as well.
What I’ve done is if the record is insanely mucky, I’ll give it a really good hand wash (spray on vinyl cleaner, scrub, then rinse) then after that I put it in the HG and it comes out flawless. Even just a quick rinse with distilled water before you put it in the cleaner makes a big difference. But yes, it’s disappointing the HG isn’t as efficient without some extra steps, makes me just want the Degritter.
I didn't expect a giant killer of any kind, but I did hope the cavitation would be stronger.
@@thevinylattack A strong cavitation could harm the Lp plastic, so, it’s a trade-off. Is it better to remove the biggest part of the dirt by hand or using a strong cavitation, risking to damage the Lp?
@@CapitanHarlockisback The Degritter can do both without the strong cavitation so I guess I'm good there. The HG however needs some help to clean up to what I'd say is an acceptable standard.
I just purchase one and received it rather quickly. Big plus. I’ve also just finished cleaning all of my LPs with a Okki Nokki machine. At this point I’m hoping that the Huminguru gets what I may have missed on the smallest of particulates. It is a bit of work but I think well worth it in the long run of musical bliss. Thank you for a wonderfully detailed review.
I hope it works out for you.
Thank you for the excellent review, and I really appreciate the USB microscope shots because that's something I was really curious about. I actually received one of the first HumminGuru units and I've cleaned about 30 records with it so far. My results are 100% consistent with yours - a record with hair, dust, bits of paper from the sleeve comes out with the detritus more evenly distributed across the surface. Hair is especially difficult for the Humminguru and you're pretty much stuck having to manually remove it otherwise it will survive many wash cycles. I also noticed that in some cases, the record doesn't emerge from the water wet - it looks dry as a bone. Other times there is clearly water in the grooves; I have no idea what's going on. I thought that it was because I had used the same water several times and perhaps it had less oxygen in it from being agitated by the transducers, but this happens even with fresh water. The drying cycle is extremely frustrating because it leaves HUGE water droplets on the record surface and as you pointed out, you could run the drying cycle as long as you want and they will never dry. And no matter how lint-free your cloth is, you will always leave some fibers behind when you dab those droplets - super frustrating. I decided to try using it in conjunction with my spin clean by first cleaning with the spin clean and then rinsing/drying with the HumminGuru. That works well, but, I can't help but feel that I could achieve the same results with a second spin clean (which I typically do) and air drying. The only thing the HumminGuru does is automate the clean cycle and "sort of" dry the record, and is that worth nearly $400? I don't think so. I'll still use it because it does work and I've already paid for it, but if I had it all to do over again I'd put that $400 in the Degritter fund.
I think the HG will still do a much better job at deep cleaning than something like a spin clean, but as you've seen, you need a pre-wash to really make it effective.
@@thevinylattack Yep, agree. The spin clean is a huge hassle to use, I will most likely use the brush + surfactant method you recommended. Thanks again!
@@petertaylor8372 Those brushes are much cheaper too ;-)
Thank you for taking the time to test and review this unit. It seems that if there will be a v. 2, they will need to address some of the issues. The fact that it leaves so much particulates on the record after the wash/dry cycle is not very encouraging to me. It would be interesting to compare it with a general purpose US cleaner like the VEVOR Commercial Ultrasonic Cleaner 6L with record bracket which together costs almost the same.
I personally wouldn't use those types of cleaners because they're just too powerful for vinyl.
@@thevinylattack good comment, there is still an unknown about the damage ultrasonics can do to pvc in vinyl records, using anything that is overly industrial is likely a big mistake. i've noticed some youtuber are using a default ultrasonic used to jewelry and added a rotating holder. the ultrasonic tanks are extremely cheap, but long term damage is a high risk. these are questions that will get answered in time i believe as the cleaning market develops.
@@varsityathlete9927 There was a study done (that I can't seem to find at the moment) that showed the effects on vinyl when subjected to long-term ultrasonic waves using a utility-style cleaner. It confirmed my suspicions and was more than enough to steer me away from those types of machines.
Here for the HG review and noticed the Michigan shirt shortly after. Go Blue!! 😁
Thanks for a great review of the machine. I did go for the DeGritter and I'm very happy with it. Cheers for this!
I think you'll find that you made the right choice.
$3300.00 USD???
Very fair review. I’m loving mine, but do understand it to be a low power ultrasonic cleaner. I use mine in conjunction with a soft camel hair shaving brush and get amazing results. One quick 2 minute clean only, run over the camel hair brush on both sides then put it into a full auto clean. Haha writing this as I’m listening to your final words :) and you then suggest my solution :) great minds, and all that… 😂
I'm happy to hear it's working for you. That is indeed the end goal.
Super glad that you did this review as I was very tempted to get one. That said, I would love to see you do an end-to-end budget record cleaning video that covers the basics.
I'd have to think about how to do such a video. I don't have any of the more budget cleaners in my house so it'd probably have to be more about manual cleaning.
@@thevinylattack Yep...manual cleaning is exactly what I was thinking about 🙂
@@theqrm I'll put it on my list.
@The Vinyl Attack! .... Totally spot on review ... Thank You!
I'm glad you liked it.
It’s exactly what we paid for. I’ll still use my Loricraft, but all in all, it’s not bad! Great review! Also, add more water than the measuring marks on the reservoir suggest, I think a lot of the dust you see is coming from the uncleaned runout grooves during the interminable drying cycle. I air dried a bunch and it was definitely better. The air filter is pretty weak.
I'll try a test or two with more water, but I don't think the outcome will be much different.
I think I’m glad I bought my Degritter, and didn’t wait for this. Great review!
I don't regret spending the money one bit on my Degritter.
I don't believe that anyone who can afford a Degritter is the target audience of the Humming Guru cleaner.
It's like comparing a Mazda and a Ferrari.
@@AnotherAnonymousMan , I see your point, but should you waste $800 on this or save your sheckels for a Degritter?
Trust me on this one. Although I haven’t used the HG, I have used other US machines, Okki Nokki, Nitty Gritty, Disc Washer, hand washing, even steam cleaning. NOTHING works as well as a Degritter..
@@michaeltuohy1249 Oh sure. Same way NOTHING drives as well as a Ferrari. My point is that there's no target audience overlap. Nobody who can afford a Ferrari is also going to buy a Mazda and nobody buying a Mazda can afford a Ferrari.
Completely different products for completely different audiences.
Got HumminGuru in Australia this week. I had a new reissued 2022 Ozzy Osbourne No More Tears LP and side 3 was unplayable. First record I cleaned was the Side 3 & 4. Distilled water and 2 drops of Kodak Photo-Flo 200 solution and 10 min clean/dry cycle. Then another 5 min clean/dry cycle with only Distilled water. Wow it has brought side 3 back to life. Great machine for the price. Would recommend.
I'm glad it's working for you.
Very much appreciate your input I’m holding off buying
Happy to help.
Great review! I’m very happy with mine. I know it voids the warranty, but I use a tiny amount of Spin Clean fluid which helps an incredible amount! I’ll likely get iSonic fluid.
I’ve taken to removing the record and giving it a quick wipe dry with a microfiber cloth before it air dries and it always comes out perfectly dry in 5 min. Just a time saving thing. Overall it’s everything I’d hoped for.
I'm glad to hear it's working out for you.
Liquinox my bud. You will never go back
I think I'll stick with my vinyl vac setup. A little more involved perhaps but much less time involved overall.
Hey Chris! I decided and pulled the trigger for the DEGRITTER. I placed the order last week. Cheers bud! JC/Miami
You won't regret it.
Really informative. I have been using a DIY ultrasonic setup for about 4 years so I will compare results when I get my Humminguru (Christmas is coming…). If it does a half decent job then it looks like good value.
I'd be interested in how it works out for you.
@@thevinylattack I have spent some time now with the HG. I also have a “DIY” ultrasonic and a “DIY” RCM. I am impressed by how slick the unit operates. It is also way quieter than my other ultrasonic which uses one of the Chinese 5L tanks and a rotisserie. Using just distilled water, it definitely cleans but tough records will require some elbow grease. A 10 minute drying cycle gets everything except for a couple of drops, which are easy to wipe off.I plan on using it just before playing a record. Since I can’t hear it in my equipment room, I can clean a record while listening, unlike with my other machine, which was noisy even from an adjacent room. Overall, better than expected based on the reading I had done.
Thanks for this! It was really helpful even if sadly discouraging. I was really hoping to find an affordable all-in-one cleaning unit that I could set and forget. We're not there yet apparently.
So it would seem.
Don’t be discouraged. It works.
Hmm...
You're very good at making videos, I bought the Kirmuss ultrasonic cleaner.
I have the HumminGuru and I can't say I have experienced some of the issues you have laid out, but I also live in Arizona so a different climate/atmosphere may make a difference. One thing that may make a difference for you is to first clean the record with a Spin Clean and then put it though a 5 minute cycle. By doing that combination, the end result has been comparable or better than any of the other four figure ultra sonic cleaners I have tried by themselves. I am not a chemist, but I think the addition of cleaning with the spin clean solution (flocculating agent) not only gets the bigger pieces of dirt off but it would seem that it also acts as something similar to a surfactant and allows the bubbles to be more effective. Give that a shot.
Personally, I use a Degritter which gives me the best results I've ever seen. For those using the HG, a pre-wash seems like the best way to go.
Hey Chris! How are ya!
This may be a bit wordy, my apologies in advance.
First of all…great video and go Wolverines!
I’ve had it up to HERE with Ohio State winning year after year. This is supposed to be a rivalry for crissakes, but I digress.
I think if one already owns a Degritter at this time, not much else in Ultrasonicville is going to compare very favorably…especially with something that’s $2,500.00 cheaper. That’s a big drop which means that the letdown is generally inevitable in most cases. Let’s be honest.
It’s like owning a 2009 Ferrari 599 GTO and then driving a Saturn….they are both cars, they both have 4 wheels, they both have engines, they both have brakes, radios and speakers, seats, AC, Heat and windows but…
Exactly.
Having said all of that I cannot see myself buying the Humminguru as the issues that were pointed out in this video would be big issues for me at $430.00. Some, I’m sure will be very happy with it which is fine. But I’ll pass. You get what you pay for.
On the flip side I cannot spend $3,000.00 on a Degritter. In my opinion the price is ridiculous and frankly speaking, I don’t have nearly enough records to justify such an investment anyway. Most of my stuff is CD and digital downloads, records is more of a side hobby of mine. I enjoy all of the formats for different reasons, but I don’t plan on duplicating all of my CD’s with vinyl. At over 1,200 that would cost me a king’s ransom.
So what have I been using to clean my records?
I’m the proud owner & operator of a
Record Doctor VI in a Carbon Fiber wrap which makes it look like a 2021 Chevy Corvette if it were a rectangular box with four small feet instead of wheels.
Which also means that my Record Doctor looks like it’s moving even though it’s stand still….😜
My results from the Record Doctor VI cleaning machine have been quite excellent in my opinion. It’s cleaned new and used vinyl (even vinyl from the 1950’s) quite masterfully.
At $299 I can’t recommend it enough to those on a budget or simply against spending a LOT of money. The trick with the Record Doctor, for me, is using a very good quality record cleaning fluid.
(The “Record Doctor” brand fluid is good but “TM-8 Super Record Cleaning Fluid” is much better based on my observations)
Having said all of that, as is the usual with your channel, you delivered another great video with down-to-earth entertainment, transparency, fairness, and as always great critical thinking.
And THAT is called Integrity which is why I keep coming back here.
Well done Sir!
I'm glad you have a system that works for you. In the end, that's what really counts.
I purchased a ultrasonic cleaner with LP kit for $300 (Amazon). It cleans 7 LPs at one time. Its awesome and works great. I have purchased used LPs covered it dirt and grime and once cleaned it looked almost new. Best thing I have ever purchased for my LP collection.
Make sure to watch the temperature on those kinds of ultrasonics.
Which one?
@@thevinylattack where should it be?
@@nanchanger For the cleaning, I recommend 32 degrees Celsius, distilled water and just a splash of isopropyl alcohol.
@@Albee213 as a Spin Clean user I never even considered a need for warm water... Which make/model machine did you get?
Very well thought out presentation. There is significantly more to records and ultrasonics and record cleaning as presented in the Audiophile Society of NJ recent zoom. Just as noted where a very prominent German made 40 KHz sonic fails the universal aluminum foil test when Aluminum foil is made to replicate a record as to the presence of cavitation and uses primarily 4 rotating scrubbers, your tests confirm where these machines whether 40 or 120 khz do not use the principle of cavitation. Anyone can replicate your test by building a frame and gluing a sheet of aluminum foil on it. In fact, noted where some manufacturers are using ultrasonic transducers as bubblers to agitate a cleaning solution and thus giving the buyer a false impression. Not seeing the buyer benefit from cavitational action.
The models inferred to can surface clean at best as where the cleaning medium and the record both have the same electrical charge and repel each other as like charges repel.
You also mention also external power adapters. Used to avoid product safety testing to meet UL, CSA and CE norms, and listed as an external power source only, use thereof is therefore misrepresenting any electrical product approvals or FCC emissions testing, it would seem, and as you noted they cannot adequately power transducers needed to generate even cavitation. The discussion of wattage warrants more review as these external laptop style power blocks cannot produce the power needed to supply motors, ultrasonic transducers, heaters and the like for a cleaning machine that uses cavitation. One can review the current rating output of these blocks then use common sense to calculate current draw.
Ultrasonic design precludes where Ultrasonic action and resulting cavitation occurs from bottom mounted transducers and not side mounted. If an ultrasonic was designed correctly using cavitation as the desired effect indeed where one should see evenly distributed gentle dimpling on the aluminimum foil from the outer edge of the record to the dead wax area. Anything less is indicative of no effects of cavitation. In fact a 120 khz unit tested shows no dimpling of the aluminum foil record.
While this review is of a single record cleaner, I would like to comment where systems that process more than one record simulateously sees the effects of cavitation be attenuated by processing multiple records that are skewered on a rotisserie style DIY looking assembly. Reflected standing waves nullify the cavitation. Impossible to process 12 records in a 6 liter sonic spaced at a quarter inch apart. A simple foil test also would confirm this.
To matters of filters, dirt, dust, and fungus, they are 3 to 5 microns in diameter. Measured pores of filters used sees 85 to 280 microns, not capable of any filtration. That is why water needs to be changed out frequently depending on the provenance of the records being processed and condition of the record let alone where the water should be discarded daily.
Very good analysis of this machine.
@@mikechedwick2034 sorry but I worked on the space shuttle and respectfully we tested sonics every day. You should
Review the book on testing sonics and the patent on testing ultrasonics, most respectfully sent in reply.
Seems like this would pair well with a Spin Clean or similar product, where you do the initial cleaning that way to get the obvious surface dust and particulates off, and then run it through the HummingGuru as a second pass, to make sure that it gets cleaner than the first method will allow. I could see investing in this in that scenario, as it's WAY cheaper than spending thousands on the DeGritter, and far more automated and convenient than buying my own off the shelf cavitation machine, and trying to rig up my own configuration.
I wouldn't even spend the money on a spin clean. A good makeup brush will give you the same results of a pre-wash for under ten bucks.
"brandnew Pantera record" got my instant sub :D
Can't argue with good taste ;-)
Mine is due to ship to Oz any day now, and my expectation is that it performs a bit better then my SpinClean, without all the effort that that involves.
I'm happy to pay the cost just so I don't have to go through the whole process of setting up the SpinClean and manually turning all the 4 for $10 records that my wife buys at the local record fairs, or to clean the few brand new albums I occasionally get.
You will not be disappointed, this is exactly what the Humminguru does. It is so easy and comfortable to use.
I wish you luck with it. You may find that using the spin clean along with the HG will be the best way to go.
@@thevinylattack another good comment Attack, spinclean can do a lot of removal, but not the deep stuff. its why im keeping the spinclean, but looking for ultrasonic solution to improve the cleaning process. :)
supplementing the water with something safe to clean vinyl seems to work the best to increase the cleaning power of this device as i have seen posted many places regarding this machine. i wish he would have done that and posted the results as he has the microscope to see results. good video about a mid level record cleaning device.
ruclips.net/video/5gh_OxTA3x0/видео.html
Next step is running the machine with various concoctions to see if one could achieve better results than distilled water. Surfactants and detergents might help.
A surfactant might indeed help and I may revisit the testing using it, but that would be all. I don't much care for the proprietary blends made by cleaners out there and it'd be too hard to test them all.
@@thevinylattack Indeed. I have yet to come across an off-the-shelve concoction that did appreciably better than what I could mix up myself.
I wonder if using the cleaning fluid that comes with the Degritter would benefit the HumminGuru? I know the manual says to not use any additives, but I am curious.
I don't even just the Degritter fluid in the Degritter. I do a wash with water and a surfactant, and then a rinse with water. I didn't do those tests here though because I felt most people would just use water.
@@thevinylattack Completely understandable. Perhaps the engineers of the HumminGuru will update the product, and increase the output of the cavitation.
@@inko123 I hope they do. I'd certainly like to see it succeed.
Degritter all day imo, best vinyl audio purchase I’ve made all year. Short term finance it if you have to, I have over 1100 cycles on my machine and still works like a dream.
It really is a fantastic machine.
Thanks for the video! Ironically it did verify my decision on the HumminGuru, as the differences in regards to other machines seem to be more quantitative than qualitative. I've been looking for something to speed up my cleaning process (manual cleaning and rinsing on an old turntable + Record Doctor V), which just took too long to accomodate other aspects of life. I'm still using the RD V to vacuum off any dust and dirt that might've been loosened but not removed by the HG. After that the records get an additional short drying cycle to completely dry them off (this solved another problem I had, because the vacuum always left some humidity behind). I'm very happy, but I also don't subject extremely dirty records to the HG. If they may arise, I'll get out the old gear first. That being said, I often do come across very dusty albums, and the combination of HG and RD really work wonders with these, even on a single cleaning cycle.
That was pretty much my experience with it.
Really been looking forward to your review on this machine, as it was your original video (which I beleive was your second or third video that brought me to this channel).
I was also one of the original backers of this machine (No. 403) and received the machine several weeks ago now, and much like most have been very underwhelmed with it, as I was hoping to replace using my Okki Nokki or Knosti manual cleaners, but sadly it jsut doesn't cut the mustard maybe because you are un-able to use a Surfactant? but either way I doubt it's ever going to become a one stop cleaner, instead I now put my records through my Knosti (as it's a lot quicker than the okki Nokki and is about as good except it doesn't dry the records) with a surfactant, prior to putting it through the Guru, and this generally does the job for me.
I did try using it on a couple off records which hadn't been cleaned prior and put my results on the Facebook Owners group, but I basically got labasted by a lot of other owners who all said it would never clean a film of a record or the mould that can sometimes build on old records which haven't been stored properly, fair enough on the Mould, but the film was removed but only in a 2/3" area in the centre of the records, so the film was still covering the first 1" or so and the last 1" or so. People said I was expecting too much from an UC, but other people have removed these things perfectly well on other UC's so I don't think I was?
Anyway I'm lucky in that I don't end up with dust all over my record after putting it through the Guru, but that's probably because of putting it through the Knosti first, so basically I would class the Guru as a Polisher (as there is no doubting how shiny records come out of it), as opossed to a cleaner, I would liken it to washing a car and then adding the wax afterwards to make it shine, that is what the Guru is the Waxer for records.
I'd say using the system you are is indeed the best way to go about it with the HG. You might consider at some point saving and bit and then selling all the cleaners you have to get a Degritter. I assure you, it will do the kind of clean you've been looking for.
I have come to same conclusion I use the Knosti and Project cleaners followed by the Humminguru.
I just purchased a HumminGuru, if for nothing else as a good rinse after a manual liquinox/citranox/tergikleen scrub. The documentation doesn't specify but it's standard practice to degas the water beforehand. I wonder if that would have helped the dust test results?
Being that a degas is simply running the machine for a couple of minutes without a record, I can't see any improvement. I ran the machine plenty of times, so in the end it was indeed degassed.
Infotaining as usual. Would be interesting to see a head to head comparison of the HumminGuru and a similarly priced vacuum style.
If I'm able to get my hands on a vacuum cleaner, I'll certainly do that.
How about same style, comparable price?
I've seen good results with adding the Mobile Fidelity Super Record Wash to the distilled water.
The only additive I every personally use is a tergitol surfactant. I could revisit some test using that, but I don't care for the 'major brand' wash additives.
@@thevinylattack I used what I have...it really has produced great results.
@Bill Fridley Fantastic! How much MOFI Wash do you add to the tank of distilled water? I've also got a bottle of that lying around.
and one more question...How many LPs do you clean before you change the water? I pretty much only buy new LPs.
@@mkintaiwan I've been using about 1/3 to 1/2 a capful to the distilled water and changing the water about every 6 albums.
While it's not fair to compare a $400 Humminguru to a $3000 Degritter, the Humminguru isn't a good value if it doesn't clean well.
The other video reviews I've seen are done by people who are coming from a $100 Spin Clean, not a $3000 Degritter. They conclude that the HG provides comparable results to the Spin Clean, usually, but with less work.
But your video makes clear that many records will require multiple cleaning cycles in the HG, and/or pre-cleaning. So maybe the Spin Clean isn't so bad.
The Kirmuss for around $900 is a true ultrasonic machine that cleans as well or better than the Degritter, but it's a manual machine and you have to air-dry the records. So, much more work. But I'd rather pay $900 for true ultrasonic and excellent results than $400 for something that's "probably" ultrasonic and requires almost as much work as a manual machine for results that aren't as good.
I'm lucky that I can afford the Degritter, so I don't have to worry about any of this.
But most people cannot, and I was really hoping the HG would bring outstanding ultrasonic cleaning results to a much wider group of vinyl enthusiasts.
One final thing: It's clear that you've put a ton of careful thought into your testing, and into putting together this video. I'm grateful, as is everyone else who watches this. I will post a link to your video in my social media & vinyl forums. Lots of people will benefit from seeing it.
The Kirmuss is dangerous to records and can't touch what a Degritter can do in the way of cleanliness, but you're spot on in the comparison of the HG and the Degritter. I still think the HG can out perform a Spin Clean with a pre-wash, but hopefully I can test that soon.
Ultrasound cleans in layers so it's important that the record looks clean before using ultrasonics in order that the grooves be cleaned. Otherwise you need to do prolonged, or multiple shorter, cycles for the bubbles to clean inside the grooves, as you discovered.
Because Degritter realizes that an ultrasonic pulse that powerful can damage records.
Nice review. I've been think of adding an ultrasonic to my cleaning regimen. Right now I use an Okki Nokki with L'Art du Son for the first pass and distilled water for the second pass. Then final air dry in a wire rack. I'm thinking it might make sense to do a vacuum clean first with surfactant, and then put it in the Humminguru. That would only add about 2 mins to the process, get most of the big gunk and save doing the 2nd ultrasonic wash. One thing that does not get stressed enough is that dirt/dust is not the cause of ALL noise problems on discs. Poor pressings, rough handling, and stylus wear all make a huge difference. New records can sound terrible and visually awful used records can sound surprisingly good despite their outward appearance. I think the goal should be "much better" not "perfection". Also, the brain is a really effective filter for getting rid of surface noise. After a while, I might not care about some noise if the music's really good.
A pre-wash with the HG seems like the best idea.
@@thevinylattack Interesting. I'd think the vacuum cleaner would get the biggest offenders first so that the HG doesn't have to work as hard. If you have both a vacuum RCM and the HG, perhaps you could try it both ways and let us know which works better.
@@paulgolden6012 What I meant was, do a pre-wash then use the HG. Sorry about that.
Good review, definitely making me think twice about this device. Looks to me, like they need a ver2, to fix these issues.
We can hope.
Mine works well worth the investment. If its really humid there are some water spots after drying, but not many. Overall its well worth the 400.00 or so. I think your being a but harsh on your review. but very complete.
JG
I think I'm being very fair, but I respect your opinion.
Great review, as usual!
By chance I bought and tested my first cleaning machine last sunday, the Pro-Ject VC-S (used, but in apparently good working order). I had thought to complement liquid cleaning with ultrasonic cleaning, and it seems I wasn't the only one! Perhaps in the near future.
A side issue: were the noise measurements you made in dBC rather than dBA for some special reason? Normally "A" filter measurements have a better relationship with the typical auditory sensation, and "C" filter gives additional weight to the low frequencies (which in this case shouldn't have much influence, quite the contrary).
Mainly because that's where the machine was set and there were no low frequencies to be heard from either machine.
Very interesting! And thanks for adding centigrades!
Well I feel bad for those of you who have to use that new-fangled system ;-)
@@thevinylattack :-D
I've owned my HumminGuru now for about 3 weeks and cleaned about a dozen 12" LPs. I largely agree with this review and appreciate his microscopic look at the albums. With the naked eye, this clearly cleans dirty albums with the distilled water alone. I found that adding a few drops of Spin Clean cleaning fluid, which I believe is just a very mild dishwashing soap to the ~cup of water in the HumminGuru, made a huge difference in the resulting clean. What I found was that the water alone didn't remove used album finger prints. This makes sense, as the dishwashing soap reduces the surface tension and removes the oils making the cleaning process much better (visually with the naked eye) in my experience The part that I am perhaps the least happy with is the drying process. I consistently had a few & very small drops on both sides of the LP thus requiring the use of a drying cloth. All in all, given that is is 1/6th the cost of a degritter, it seems like a wonderful value. I would buy it again but it does require more participation in the cleaning process than the degritter which in my experience is mostly a hands off process.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Amazing work as always!
Thank you.
Excellent review. GO BLUE
Thanks for the review. I think ill put my 400 toward the Degritter.
It's definitely not a cheap machine, but in my experience it is BY FAR the best record cleaner available.
Gave a thumbs up just for the Michigan shirt. Go Blue. I'd give another one if I could for the content.
I appreciate it.
Thanks for your great review of this record cleaner. The use of carpet cleaner to look at particulate removal may not have worked as well as the vacuum dust. It is likely that the carpet cleaner dissolves in water and is no longer in particulate form once it is run through the record cleaner. The ultrasonic cavitation should be a powerful aid in dissolving the carpet cleaner powder. Otherwise, great tests and video.
Gee thanks...now I am lusting after a Degritter. 😮I am ruined, just cannot settle for an ok product when I know there is something A LOT better and more effective to be had.
However, a divorce would cost me quite a bit more, so I will wait, and lust.
A BIG "Thank you" for taking the time to make and edit these video's. I find them very helpful as I get back into it. Resurrecting my old electronics/records from the mid 70's has been fun. My missing Zerostat led me here. I always wondered if that thing actually worked, all my friends laughed and doubted it. Now I know
Just stash away your spare pennies and over time you'll get the product you want. It's well worth the saving.
I don't understand the problem with the surface dirt. Rinse the record under the tap! We keep our records in sleeves and clean them regularly. The issue is that wiping an LP with a microfibre cloth and a shot of distilled water/isopropanol/surfactant doesn't get deep into the groves. The images seem to suggest that the deep groove cleaning is done. And we didn't get to hear the record before and after to get a sense of the reduction of noise. One magnitude order of difference cheaper though... that's moving in the right direction.
Many of the more intense collectors don't want the residue and buildup that tap water leaves.
When all is said and done, I'll stick with my 3 dollar home made vacuum system. Has not let me down and has actually improved the sound of one album I paid the local record store to ultrasonically clean.
If it works for you, that's all that matters.
record cleaning machines are really not needed
@@johnholmes912 I agree, it's really funny but a year or so ago my son and myself were starting to clean all the records from my parents and mine from the 70's and 80s and I asked my dad how he used to clean them and he grabbed his tshirt and made a cleaning motion. Crazy how things have changed. Granted in retrospect all the old albums have surface scratches but what can you do.
Can you elaborate what your vacuum system is? Curious to know more about what and how you use it
@@rolkinn pretty much just a replica of the vinyl vac system, with high quality velvet that I cut into strips and adhered with double sided tape. Then a normal super soft paint pad. I do it in 2 steps one with cleaning solution then vacuum, then a rinse with distilled water and separate paint pad then vacuum again. Takes time but worth it. Of course I just built the lazy susan as directed on vinyl vac website. Whole system not including vacuum was like 10 dollars.
Great review! Does anyone use Matto brush for vinyl cleaning? I think I will give it a shot. More bristles the better result? I think I will try on some cheap vinyl.
I had several records from "The World's Great Music", among them Bizet's "Carmen Suite."
HG must’ve been updated since this review because it have a safety feature now if water temperature is too high it will not run or just pause during the cycle until the temperature drops below a certain point and the drying cycle is working properly on my machine records completely dry after regular auto wash cycle but the drying cycle is very loud now compared to the reviewed unit. I bought my machine from Amazon in August 2023 if anyone interested.
HAIL!!!
Thanks for the video. And, Go Blue!
You bet!
I was wondering if you tried adding anything to the water such as the HuminGuru small bottle fluid or any “G” fluid drops as others have?
Great review. Might wait for v 2.0 👍
I'll be interested to see if they make another version.
Ive bought records since the 70s and only ever used a soft felt wiper on them, so you can imagine the filth thats accumulated what do you suggest before going through a cleaning cycle on my new purchase
Wetter and surfactant is key!! Promotes cleaning and drying... 🙂
I ordered a vevor system about 2 months ago for a little over 200 dollars and it works great
You might want to be careful with that. Industrial type ultrasonics are dangerous for vinyl records.
Go blue!
Yeah, gonna go ahead and thumbs up this video and watch it after I finish re-watching Michigan beat ohio GO BLUE!!!
SUCH a good game.
Amazing review!! Thanks
Glad it was helpful.
IMO a RCM needs to use a record cleaning solution applied with a goat hair brush to dissolve the groove contaminants, and any finger prints from careless handling by the uninitiated, and must have a vacuum cleaning process to suck all the build up of gunk out of the grooves.
When you look at the grooves in some of these really old records some of this crud has been built up over the years and almost fused to the groove because of the high temperatures caused by the stylus friction and needs some solution to resolve all the fusion "contusion". 😉
With a proper ultrasonic cleaner, none of that excess work is necessary.
As for power, I don’t think it is so easy to compare. For example, the big tub ultrasonics such as the DIY and Kirmuss use 4l of water whereas the Humminguru uses 400ml (10x less). I don’t know how much water is in the Degritter - the tank takes 1.3l and if all of it is pumped in then it’s 3x the amount of water
I see what you're saying, but with the results I, and many others are having, I still feel the HG is under powered.
@@thevinylattack Given the DG uses 120KHz, it’s going to naturally penetrate deeper even without a surfactant. I ordered a HG just for fun and will run it with water and tergikleen (ie tergitol) in a mild solution. We shall see
@@miguelbarrio Let me know how the HG works for you.
I was wondering if you have seen/heard of the Humminguru small bottle? it's an addon from the machine itself, cost me $30 and it should do about 1000 records. Totally changed my opinion of this machine and now I will put my HG + Small Bottle against any other US cleaner out there and for the money - it's the champ!
While I'm happy it's working for you, no fluid on earth will make that machine perform at the level of things like the Degritter. Possibly even a vacuum cleaner.
I compared it to the project VC-E vacuum cleaner and HG gets records much cleaner but it’s like a finishing touch the vacuum cleaner gets the majority of dirt out first and then HG do the delicate cleaning that vacuum left behind. There’s quite a built up of dirt/gunk embedded into the grooves that’s brushing and vacuuming is not always going to work unless maybe soaking records in something to dissolve the gunk which might harm the record surface as well. That’s what HG is good for the so called invisible micro dirt and one can always just run couple long clean only cycles to get the challenging record clean. In my case a normal 5 minutes auto cycle is enough to refresh my well used records and then I can always start with Project auto cleaning vacuum and finish it with HG and that’s giving the best overall results no matter how filthy the record is.
I was looking for this comparison! Although it is $300 vs $3000! It should have been named Humminguru vs Degritter.
I tried to not do much of a comparison between the two for that reason.
@@thevinylattack I agree that a price 10 times as much is not a fair comparison. In this case you do get what you pay for.
So, you used the Degritter to clean an already cleaned lp and, surprisingly, it cleaned it better. You omitted to say that the Degritter use some cleaning solution to be added to the distilled water. A fair comparison, in my opinion, should be using two comparably dirt records, using the same cleaning fluid, and a microscope after that.
The HG couldn't clean the record as nice in three tries and the Degritter did in one. I don't expect them to be on par, but the HG isn't even close. I also used no cleaning solution for either. Just distilled water.
I’ve been waiting for this. Thank you! (Also I’m going to slurp my channel it’s new - music only)
Thanks for watching!
I have an original Nitty Gritty Cleaning machine. It does a fabulous job quickly. When they are fairly clean I will just use Last cleaner and if I am storing I use the Last preserver solution. I guess by now my nitty gritty would be classified an antique. Oh yea......Go Blue!
If it's working, that's what counts.
I’m def not an expert, but from what I’m reading on google the ultrasonic power figure seems to be most important when considering the volume, or watts/gallon ratio. It seems that many of the cleaners have the power scale to the volume of fluid, and small capacity cleaners like this one seem to be 30-50w on average. I used to own a small capacity ultrasonic jewelry cleaner from sharper image that’s probably in the 30w range (or less) and it did a surprisingly great job with jewelry. Not sure if that’s accurate or helpful, just what I’m reading. I worry about the labels getting wet on occasion with this unit.
30 watts isn't going to achieve cavitation. It can still clean an item, but it isn't ultrasonic.
@@thevinylattack If it isn't achieving cavitation then what is removing the debris from the record grooves as your photos in the video clearly show had happened? Surely just slowly spinning a record through water vibrating isn't going to accomplish much.
@@shaynestewart545 You're right. It doesn't accomplish much, but that is indeed what it's doing.
Just picked one up. Works great for me. I only buy new or NM originals- no flea market records- so most of my vinyl is semi clean to start. I just can not justify 3k on a cleaner. Would rather spend that on gear or more records.
I'm happy it's working out for you.
Go Blue!!
I was excited for this cleaner but haven't seen one review that said it did a phenomenal job. All have said that it works good but not great.
In my experience, I'd say that's about right.
Great review...... Comparing the effectiveness of the HumminGuru with the Degritter is somewhat unfair, not because of the price difference by the way, but because the Degritter runs at 120khz it will always do a better job because at that frequency the water cavitation bubbles get deeper into the grooves than the larger40khz cav bubbles in the HumminGuru. I use a unit that has switchable 40/80/120khz frequency, and I use all three, starting with 40khz ending with 120khz for 5 minutes each and using another 120khz unit for rinsing. Units with 120khz transducers are much more costly because of the much higher cost of the 120khz transducers, The HumminGuru is a good starting point into ultrasonics for those who cant afford or justify the expense of a better unit.
Well, the price difference is why the Degritter has the 120khz transducers so I think we're saying the same thing, just using different words.
@@thevinylattack You could sort of say that. The base unit I use with its adjustable transducers is four times the price of the standard 40khz tank but works much better. I use it to do multiple records with a calculated gap between the records. Most of the multi record units have the LP's too close together for the cavitation to work properly. Eg: 6litre tank no more than 4 LP's evenly spaced. 10litre tank no more than 8 records equally spaced. I have had a degritter, after it had problem under warranty it was super difficult to get it repaired or replaced here in Australia. the store I bought it from went bust at start of covid lockdowns, the Germans at the factory were impossible to deal with, and I speak fluent German, but they kept saying see the Australian dealer. I had a friend of mine who is an electronics whiz to look at it, he repaired it, improved it, and bought it from me. I built my new multi frequency unit that works better, now making a drying unit for it. Enjoy the music/
@@peterrech2307 It might have been because they're not German, they're Estonian
@@thevinylattack You are right, the address on the box my unit came from was in Germany, I know a few Estonians here in Australia and they all speak a version of Ggerman, so I could havde contacted them in Estonia anyway my techo fixed the unit and it has worked well since, including its drying cycle. my drying unit is also now working and it actually works better than the degritter, does 8 LP's at once using the same spindle that is used in the Ultrasonic unit. Once a few changes are incorporated we may be looking at marketing the units. It actually works better than the degritter and the Audio desk and is still cheaper.
There is some evidence to suggest that 120Hz can damage vinyl records
Now theu are 500 now. Would you say the Vevor is on par?
Great review! I’m surprised more hi fi producers don’t have you give reviews on their products....your so honest and in-depth on your testing,I really appreciate that! Your reviews either help me save or spend my money on this hobby! Gotta love it man.....Go Blue!
Thanks. I'm doing what I can.
Nice review! While you claim that it isn't as good as a Degritter, but that it does work (even just with distilled water). Although a pre clean might be needed for very dirty records, that's exactly what I expected from a machine that costs a fraction of the price. In my opinion, it's not quite fair to compare with D machine not only because of the big price difference but the design itself and its original idea of cleaning records right before playing the music. I dont' see they ever mention VERY dirty record at that Kickstarter scenario, but people simply interpret a totally different concept and expectations. It's more a little machine that brings convenience to people right before playing, and definitely can be a last touch up of cleaning. Thanks again for your input!
They did do a chalk test which would lead people to think it will handle full on dirt filled records in my opinion, but overall, I think it's a viable solution with a bit of extra effort.
Holy moly, that Degritter is 5 grand here! Are there any better but _affordable_ ultrasonic record cleaners? $1000 AUD is max what I would pay. If not, hopefully if I wait for a v.2 of the HumminGuru we'll get one with a better power supply and improvements on other features. A 3 slot machine comes to mind (7", 10", 12") instead of only 12" + included adapters.
There aren't any that I'm aware of. Once again, the Australians take a financial hit.
@@thevinylattack Thanks anyway. Fingers crossed, this cheap Chinese one will prompt more price competition from the other companies currently charging a ridiculous $5k to the "average" vinyl enthusiast. If vinyl is making anywhere near the comeback they claim they are going to have to make ultrasonic cleaners for more than just the Musk's & the Bezos' of this world.
Can you do a video of cleaning records with IPA? Pros, Cons, Dangers, Myths, etc.?
Really good review! I‘ve ordered it a few weeks ago, but after seeing your review, i‘m a bit frustrated! But who knows? Normally my motto is: you get what you pay. But this time, i‘ve made an exception, because the project looks serious …
I think with a little pre-clean you should have good results.
@@thevinylattack ok, thanks! A good thing is, my records are all in very good condition, i’ve always cleaned them by hand! Otherwise, i will go for a Degritter …😉😆
Very informative. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions of various equipment, it really helps people make a more informed decision to purchase or not. Still not a fan of the cuts, but your content is worth it. Also GO BLUE! What a game. I am originally from Michigan but now find myself living behind enemy lines in Ohio.
I'm glad you're sticking around for the content. I do appreciate it.
Yeah, but next year we (the Buckeyes) are coming back and kicking rear!🤟🏾
Thanks Chris....you just saved me some $$$, time and possibly aggravation. Keep it 100!
Glad to help.