Bellman CX-25P Espresso Machine Review - Buy a Moka Pot and Steamer instead
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- I tried out a Bellman CX-25P espresso-making machine, and decided it is better to use a Moka Pot and a Bellman Milk Steamer instead. Why? The steam smells too much like burnt coffee and that taste gets into the coffee produced. Using 2 separate units rather than a 2-in-1 unit is better.
In order to not have water go back down in the reservoir I think you're supposed to let all the coffee come out of the outlet until nothing else is left, then you can steam your milk.
You may be correct, but I don't own this any more to try your suggestion. I definitely followed the provided instructions and the supplier's video at the time.
A couple more reasons to get just the steamer:
1) Coffee tastes better with water that has minerals in it. A steamer should really have distilled water (to cut down on mineralization in the chamber and wand). 2 different kinds of water means two different pots.
2) Coffee brews best at 200°F, more or less. Steamers usually need boiling temps to generate enough pressure. Not a massive difference, but enough to make a difference. I suspect you’d overextract brewing with this Bellman.
I have an electric Bellman, which does make coffee, but only use it for milk steaming.
This was an excellent video! I was considering buying the Bellman CX-25P for the reasons you mentioned, namely, the convenience factor of having basically a combination of my moka pot with the steamer. But now I will definitely be in the market for just the steamer itself and keep my moka pot.
And you did a great job on camera, thank you for your time on making this review!
It's an Espresso machine, not a coffee maker
Thanks you’ve saved me forming biting the bullet. Combining the two seemed like a good idea until I saw this video and it became obvious why not to get it
I love coffee so much I do a full Bellman every morning with a 51 g dose. I hated the Bellman at first but now that I have it dialed in I can't go back to the moka pot!
51gm ground beans to how much water in, yields about how much out?
please describe what you like so much more about what the Bellman produces?
What type of coffee beans do you use, do you grind or buy pre-ground?
@@aryehh7128 I use Corvus coffee beans and bounce around the different varieties. I grind pretty fine right before brewing. I currently just hand tamp it in because I don't have a bellman tamper. But I am very light with my tamping. I use boiling water up to the max level inside the bellman. I screw everything together and put it on a fairly high heat until it hits .4 bars. I then open the tap until I see a drop and close it and then let it continue to rise until two bars. I then take it off the heat stick it by the scale and Brew out 150 ml of coffee for a one to three ratio. I then put it back on the stove to get it up to three bars so that I can steam my milk. I also add sugar to mine because I love sugar. I love the coffee out of this so much!
sounds great. do you do a pre-infusion phase? is that why up to 4 then down to 2?
if you want 150ml out, why not only fill to the 3 cup line of water?
@@aryehh7128 I do the pre-infusion at 0.4 (not 4) and then continue raising it up to 2 for brewing. I fill it up to the max level because it seems to do a better job of getting water up the funnel. Even still it kind of sputters the last half of the Brew. I would be curious if this thing would work even better if the funnel went almost all the way to the bottom of the bellman.
@@TomFoolery9001 I'm starting to look at manual lever espresso makers instead. with either a bellman steamer or more likely a tiny fan wand.
I had already decided on buying only the steamer before I saw this video, for the reason that I find my moka pot so mindlessly simple to use, rather than fluffin' about with taps and nozzles and gaskets and pressure gauges. I really just need a way to make frothy milk, and that stronger high pressure style coffee extraction can already be achieved by filling the moka pot's coffee basket right up but only using half the water. Thank you for re-affirming my decision.
Also never had an issue with the steam smelling like burnt coffee. I have experimented with a moka pot and the bellman and my personal opinion is that the bellman makes better black coffee than the moka pot, it's never been weak. Unsure mate, because I have had a really great experience with the bellman CX-25P.
100% my experience. Better espresso, better coffee and no problem with steaming at all
Alernative Brewing Has a couple of videos on how to avoid the CX25P problem. I've not tried the product yet. Also, if not happy with the coffee making aspect, why not use it as a milk steamer with a gauge?
Interesting watch, I've been using a CX25P for about 2 years now and have a hard time bringing anything else with me when travelling... Have tried ROK, Flair, Picopresso, the lot. Nothing comes close in terms of how compact the unit is, meaning I can still enjoy milk based drinks with the small footprint.
Haven't had any problems once the coffee is all dialled in, steaming works a treat - Using the tainted water is as expected, I mean I'm mixing the milk with coffee - Still beats any latte I'd order at a cafe!
Thanks for your honesty. It's refreshing.
Does the steam only Bellman come with a pressure gauge as well?
No - although I have heard they may have added one recently but I couldn't confirm it. If you heat until the over-pressure valve starts to open you are good to go, so you don't really need a gauge.
Outstandingly honest. Was considering a purchase. Thanx! good day!
So helpful! Thank you! I was considering it, but now I know better! 🎉
If it were as bad as this "expert" states they would not be in business after 45 years .
I've been using this for years and it makes great coffee... As with all things you buy you have to know how to use it...this guy just didn't understand how it works.
Awesome review - personally I do the pot in one go - don’t mess with an open vessel of boiling water. Result is fine if you charge the chamber, add grounds then boil it in one go. If “burnt” grounds is a worry then dip the bottom of the pot in cold water to arrest the process as it finishes extraction :)
Others have done the comparison on Moka Pots (which is effectively what this is) between starting with boiling water and starting with cold water - and they all say boiling is better because it limits the natural tendency to over-extract from too much heat. For the same reason, you don't want to tamp hard or grind too fine. Note that boiling water in a pressure vessel like this always makes water hotter than the ideal extraction temperatures (and hotter than normal boiling water), so you need to limit the effects of that any way you can. i.e. the aim is to taste less bitter and astringent. Your idea of cooling as soon as extraction has finished is also recommended.
@@michaelporter000 It's not true though. You can even achieve a lukewarm extraction with a moka pot. You can control the extraction temperature with the amount of water used in the boiler. Counterintuitively less water means cooler extraction. This works only if you start off with cold water of course.
@@philidornews4055 Yes - I agree. I believe the best way to avoid over-extraction (i.e. bitter taste) using a moka pot is when you don't grind too fine or pack too hard so back-pressure is low, and to add the required amount of water that is already boiling, and then to control heat to keep the flow rate slow and cool the moka pot with cold water as soon as spluttering starts.
If you were to try it without the coffee, and use it just as a steamer, Is it better than using the original steamer?
I know you said that you are going to sell it, but if you were to mod it as you did with your original steamer, would it be an improvement? Considering that this one have a valve.
thanks michael for making it clear about my confusions
thank you so much. This is exactly the type of review i need bc i was considering the 'upgrade' but I'm perfectly happy with my mokapot. i will buy the bellman milk steamer instead.
Bellman is so much easier once you get to know how to use it properly. I couldn’t go away camping without it now.
I don't know what went wrong when I was using it then. I really thought I was operating it correctly and the guidance said to expect some coffee-tainted water. I'm glad it is working for you- and I hope it works well for the person who bought it from me!
I love this review. It’s so honest and refreshing
Better alternative is to get a Bellman steamer and a Flair Neo. Same total price, even with the non-pressurized filter.
What would you recommend for a smaller espresso maker? Looking for a camping setup :)
@@ozema87 Imma be honest here ... the Flair Neo with a non pressurized basket WILL get you the best espresso in the field. It is reasonably portable but, as you said not the smallest. More portable is the Wacaco Picopresso or the even smaller Minipresso from the same company. You'll be quite pleased with the form factor and the major RUclipsrs were impressed but not blown away by the espresso it produces. As always with these machines, heat management is your main enemy. Have fun on your camping trips. :)
All theyd have to do is extend the whole basket to the end of the spout so we can load regular baskets with handles and when done pulling a shot the dirty water wont be able to travel back up, over and down to dirty the steaming water!?
I am considering getting a bellman but the one without the pressure gauge makes me a bit nervous. Do you think it would be worth it to purchase the 2 in 1 and just use for steaming with the added feature of a pressure gauge. I'm leaning toward not worth but figured I'd ask. appreciate your time and thanks for the video!
The 2 in 1 unit was much more expensive for me so I don't think just the added pressure gauge is worth it, unless you are planning to use it very often. If safety is your only concern I think the over pressure valve is perfectly safe.
Mate this is exactly the amazing video I needed, thank you! I'm coincidentally also in Mel. Stores you'd recommend buying from?
I buy online from AlternativeBrewing and sometimes Coffee Parts - or just second-hand through Facebook Marketplace. For coffee beans I buy online from MyCuppa - cheap, fast and good - especially for single origin coffees.
Have you looked at the Bialetti Mukka pot? It steams milk in the upper section.
A friend used a Bellman style unit decades back. We didn't experience that burnt coffee steam smell. But I'm not sure the design is exactly the same.
I haven't seen the Bialetti Mukka Express before. Looks interesting - very foamy cuppaccino. No latte art is going to happen with that but the taste may be good.
@@michaelporter000 seems to me an easiest way to half-asleep attain a first cappuccino or latte to gently start a cold winter day. (6 degrees celsius HIGH temp yesterday, outside!)
@@aryehh7128 Yes, I agree. But it's much hotter here in Melbourne Australia now. Expecting 34 Celsius tomorrow. Might make an iced coffee!
Just scored a used one today. Got it for the steamer, got lucky and spit out two cappucinos that were good.
Agree that a moka pot is more economical, when you get it right the coffee is good. Like you noted 50grams is a big dose.
You used induction cooker in camping? Nice…..😊
Thank you very much for the review, all clear! :)
I recently saw a video where they recommended venting the steam wand first to get rid of the initial splash of wet burnt coffee-tainted steam.
That's interesting
My problem with this set up other than the possibility of coffee water in the steam, is that coffee is usually brewed at below boiling temperature. This contraption don't exactly provide a way to work around overheating easily. It's a more controllable pressure moka pot, so the result won't go further than that. I suspect to mitigate the coffee water resurgent, you would need to open the valve gently while controlling the fire.
Still, it's not that bad of a coffee maker by itself, adequate for shitty beans. My biggest gripe is the weird workflow design. When you load up coffee, you are loading up on a funnel with a hole in the middle and cannot stand on its own. You have to hold it while having one finger covering the hole. Then you need a "special" tamper to push it down. It's not a fun and pleasant device to use. Maybe good for camping, but that's about it.
The other baffling thing to me, and I hope avid campers can explain to me, is that while I understand the desire to have nice coffee in the middle of nowhere, I also find having to bring very messy and needs good cleaning, refrigeration food like milk to camping is a massive headache. Sure, you can bring milk alternative but you would still have to clean things in contact with it. That's why I can understand bringing moka pot, but fresh milk to steam is just too much. When I go camping I just bring the moka pot that doubles as a tea maker, small kettle, and bags of creamers.
That being said, between just the milk steamer, moka pot and this, I would have gotten this. It's always better to have more functions, since if you don't use it to brew your coffee, you can still use it to steam your milk. For its price though, I expect more.
Definitely when camping simple is best. Moka pot plus long-life milk is easy. I've never liked any creamer I've tried- but maybe we just don't have the same creamer in Australia.
Michael, your content is done amazingly well. It is a pity that a youtube algorithm promotes videos with better lightning and nicer haircuts and avoids very informative videos like this one.
I guess education vs entertainment.
Now I'm worried about my hair 🤣
@@michaelporter000 the hairs great mate don’t worry
Thanks for the honest review
I have an older electric version and never had any problems with coffee tasting steam but maybe the electric version is different. It makes excellent expresso imo. I use it several times a week for cappuccino. This will really shock you but I keep the water in the pot 2-3 days before changing it 🫣and only add about 1/4 cup of water before each brew ( after releasing pressure) to bring it back up to the 3 cup mark. Why? Because 3 servings of expresso needs 3 cups of water but only uses about 1/4 of water to actually make the expresso and steam the milk. I tasted the brown colored water thinking it was coffee- nope it tasted like water. 😁
That's interesting. I have had a few responses of happy users so I may have missed something critical but I couldn't identify anything I was doing wrong. Maybe my coffee obsession has raised my standards too high.
Purge water.. put 1 cm of new water.. heat up.. do your milk.
Does the steamer lid fit on the moka pot? I'd be interested in a dedicated steamer (no coffee), but with a pressure gauge. Thanks.
You can run it without coffee if you just want to steam milk,. You don't need any extra parts or anything. And the steamer top does fit on the coffee maker if you want a gauge.
Is the steamer made by Bellman, too? If not, what company?
Yes, same company
Thanks for the tip. I have always wondered about the steaming system.
Where did you get the steamer?
Search for Bellman Stovetop Steamer 50SS. I bought mine second hand from eBay, but in Australia the website Alternative Brewing sells it, among others.
@@michaelporter000 Thanks.
I didn't check all the comments, but did you use a filter?
Yes
Ive bought 2 mocha pots and they both taste metallic , what am I doing wrong
I only have a stainless steel moka pot and it has been fine. They can easily taste bitter which could be confused for metallic. For that, fill with boiling water, don't pack in hard, and take off the stove and put in cold water as soon as it finishes making coffee, ie when it splutters.
Bellman released a new version of Steamer with a pressure gauge. I'd like to buy it, it's Just a ateamer, would u recommend to buy it?
Yes - I haven't seen it, but having a pressure gauge when steaming is very useful. Without it, you need to heat until the over-pressure valve starts to open - which may be more steam pressure than you need. I have only seen the CX25P model, which is this moka pot and steamer combined unit which I wouldn't recommend.
@@michaelporter000 thank you for the reply, Bellman told me that the steamer it requires 5 minutes from cold water to build steam and 2 minutes from hot water and the user must use only a gas hob that is much faster compared to induction or eletric plate that require at least 20 minutes to build pressure.
@@dan.the.barista By memory, the induction cooker heated faster than gas - definitely closer to 5 minutes than 20 minutes.
@@michaelporter000 thank you so much. I'd like to buy the steamer to use it on a gas hob but the time required to build the right pressure to have a good steam for milk it's making in me some problems to decide to buy it. At home I only have gas hob but i don't want to wait 20 minutes before steam milk...
Sounds like your pressure was too high. What numbers were you running for brew vs steam?
Can't remember, but it was as recommended by the supplier. I did other Google searches to confirm the best pressures and grind suggestions.
@@michaelporter000 no u didn't
when you are out cold and need coffee, this machine will be lovely rather than drive to the town to get a cup of coffee. make sense? or make coffee.
Thanks for the video. Think I'll skip this on my coffee journey and stick to moka pots
Are you using the filter?
Yes
thanks for this video. the best combonation is the only steamer plus 9barista😁
9barista looks amazing, but I think I'd find it too limiting. I wonder how popular they are?
I have one and could not get it to work properly, I even messaged the company telling them I want to return it for a full refund and they replied that no returns and no refunds.
I bought mine through alternative brewing website and they wouldn't return mine either. Plenty of people have commented that they are happy so maybe mine had a fault. I have had other good experiences with that website so you win some you lose some.
Just steam milk first, but brewing coffee at a hotter temp than ideal
I can't get my coffee to flow. It keeps spluttering and spitting
As soon as you see coffee you should turn down the heat so it comes out as slow as possible. When it runs out and starts sputtering then it is done and you should take it off the heat and run cold water on the sides to stop it quickly.
You must be doing something wrong. Are you waiting some long amount of time after brewing the coffee and then steaming the milk? My steam is clean and great from my Bellman. Also the Bellman makes noticeable better coffee than the moka pot. I love the moka pot and have used it for years but the bellman is closer to real espresso and tastes fantastic. Maybe you got some junk in your steam wand or something because the Bellman beats the Moka Pot in every way except for speed and simplicity.
I immediately attempted to steam milk after brewing the coffee - there was no wait time between. As I said, I also asked the supplier for advice but they couldn't help me remove that issue, despite many attempts with different coffee amounts and water amounts and carefully watching other videos to look for anything I might be doing wrong. I'm glad your experience has been good though.
do you have the pressure gauge model? after pulling the shirt how long does it take to get back up to pressure to stream the milk?
at what pressure do you steam the milk?
if you use a light to medium roast can you dial in the grind size, dose, ratio as with a "real" espresso machine, to lessen sourness or adjust bitterness?
does it come out delicious enough to drink as an almost espresso, or only good enough to work in milk?
I wonder if you are heating too fast, too small of grind, or something. I have not had the issue with the steam smelling bad or causing milk to taste bad. I have been impressed how well I can foam milk with it. I usually make 2 cappuccinos at once for my wife and I, and works fairly well for this. I think key is to follow similar/same techniques as moka pot. Put boiling hot water into it. Leave the dispenser valve completely open. Slowly heat (low to medium heat) until coffee starts to brew, then reduce or remove heat. Once I have brewed coffee I close dispenser valve and increase heat to almost 2 bar and steam. I do see after it has cooled and opened the water has been slightly browed from coffee, but again have not had issue with steamed milk tasting bad.
Maybe my unit had a fault then. I did ask the suppliers but they didn't agree. I don't have it any more as I have other better options.
You're using it wrong. it makes perfect espresso. Steamer works great.
'I haven't seen anyone online mention this problem' may'be it's not the unit but the user?😉
Thanks
Hahaha. Apples and oranges. Good to have the gauge??? Di you know what it's for? Haha.
We love ours steam milk first no difference on work flow
I've heard many stories of people who love theirs, so I'm glad that is your experience too. It wasn't that great for me, sadly.
It’s not a moka pot mate, completely different extraction process.
It is not a Moka pot but the coffee extraction process is the same as in a Moka pot - i.e. water is boiled under pressure and the water is forced up through a bed of coffee grounds, and then through a filter, and then out through a central pipe. The only difference is that the pipe in a Bellman has a flow control valve at the end and the pipe in a Moka pot discharges into the upper chamber of the pot.
@@michaelporter000 how much closer is the Bellman to proper espresso? it's only 2-3 bars, not the 8-9 of a real espresso machine...
@@aryehh7128 It's not high enough pressure to be espresso but you can make coffee approaching that strength. Most casual coffee drinkers would say it tastes much the same.
@@michaelporter000in my mind I'm chasing third wave precision espressos. though first after rolling out of bed a "ground the night before" Mukka pot cuppa, or two, might often be San easier way to wake to the day!
I'm not sure about the technical side of this, but I will say that I haven't had a bad cup of coffee from mine, better in fact than nearly any barista made coffee I have had. Love mine. Can't say I have ever smelt the odours you describe. And it is far more convenient than two separate machines. Perhaps I am just not a coffee gourmet?😀
Coffee served at shops are usually a cheap blend, designed to be just "good enough". If you buy good, then freshly grind your coffee, the taste would very likely be better than at the shop.
Moka pot will burn your coffee even if you buy it separately.
Moka pot can make very good coffee if you use the right technique, but can easily make bitter coffee from over extraction if you use the wrong method. Basically don't pack grounds in hard, fill with boiling water, and cool with cold for water as soon as it is finished ie when it splutters.
Totally make sense from the design of the product. The different in pressure could bring the coffee water back down, ending up back in bottom chamber along with some unwanted grounds.
What they could've done is either 1: separating the water chamber for coffee and for steaming (something like this: ruclips.net/video/D1TEGNH8FGc/видео.html ) or 2: like a what a group of friends made here, distancing the coffee basket with water chamber ruclips.net/video/1yr47xdh6to/видео.html
Both, looks much better than the CX25
I love those! They look like fun projects that could work well.
Bloody fiddly device, messy to work with. Yes you can make coffee but I haven’t found it to be great, I can get damn near as good out of my Moka pot with a good deal less fluffing about. And clean up is quicker and easier with the Moka pot.
The Bellman does produce a great cup of coffee if you learn how to use it. I have the CX-25 and found the following video very helpful to make a great cup of coffee (and steaming the milk) using the bellman: ruclips.net/video/JeWjIEPvKQo/видео.html
Why buy a new steamer? Just buy a new moka pot and keep using the old Bellman with the pressure gauge just for steam.
Basically you don’t know how to use it
Sure, but I followed the provided instructions exactly and then tried variations and searched for other instructions I could find and nothing produced coffee anywhere near as good as a moka pot when used with a dedicated milk steamer. And I'm not a coffee novice.
You would have been more convincing if you DEMONSTRATE IT rather than just talking on and on and on and on and on and on and on.... wasted my time.
It's a total fail. I hate the thing.
Some people seem to like it- not me or you!