Several decades ago, in a book that may have been authored by Kevin Roland, it laid out some of de Valera's faults, but noted that his adoption of neutrality in World War II kept Irish boys from being sent to the slaughter on foreign battlefields and beaches and the Irish Nation owed him a debt of gratitude, even with his drawbacks. A debt is owed to Mr. Cole.
As an Irishman, I think our neutrality is extremely important. We should not join NATO. We can make no difference joining NATO. We can however make a difference being a neutral state and a voice for reason. The moment we join NATO we lose what little real sovereignty we have left. The EU has become a shitshow full of unelected corporate handpicked bureaucrats. The western narrative of this war in Ukraine is full of gaping holes and we should have nothing to do with it. We can help refugees and those in need as best we can
In the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine two Irish ex-presidents, Mary Robinson and Mary McAlease, appeared on Ireland's very popular and culturally influential 'Late Late Show' to inform us 'Ireland is not neutral in this conflict'. The thrust of their pronouncements went unchallenged by the presenter, Ryan Tudridy. Rather he chose to act as cheerleader. In spite of Roger's correct assertion that neutrality is embedded in the Irish DNA there is huge popular support for NATO and Western intervention in the Ukraine conflict. I suspect many Irish people are reassessing their instinct for neutrality in light of this. It is very refreshing and encouraging to hear Roger Cole's perspective.
Thanks for the info! The public pressure campaign running through the media to change ppl‘s minds about neutrality is huge. I just don‘t get how it‘s possible that this part of the elite is so powerful in politics and the media when the popular sentiment is clearly still different according to opinion pols… why is it that in places of power there are so disproportionately many neocons/ pro NATO and pro war forces? how did that self-selection happen?
@@neutralitystudies A good question. And one I won't pretend to answer. I think Roger Cole gives some good historical insights in your fine interview into how this evolved in the Irish context. Another thing is Ireland has very strong cultural and familial links with the US and US companies (notably tech) are huge employers here. There is massive inward investment. It would be a courageous (suicidal?) Govt. that sought to play hardball with the US over, for example, the use of Shannon airport for military transit. And as Roger Cole points out Irish sovereignty is constitutionally vested in its people but the people have to assert that sovereignty themselves otherwise it will go o they highest bidder - and it does! After the 2008 crash we had a triumvirate of extra national financial institutions forcing our govt.'s hand and signing off on our budgets. How can we claim to be sovereign at all when it has been demonstrated that we are merely paying tenants and our sovereignty depends on us nott getting behind in our rent?!
@@andrewroddy3278 That one is really a huge problem. I used to be a fan of the Euro until I understood that having a monetary union without a fiscal union dooms at least half of the union members (the once in a deficit) to political subservience as they have no way to regain economic competitiveness through devaluation. The Euro without a fiscal union and an fiscal exchange mechanism was a huge mistake. huge. And yes, that then gives leverage over domestic policy. Let's ask the Greek. They had it worst.
@@neutralitystudiesI provide a theory. There is also a possibility of coercion in play. Those who do not obey get punished. For example they punished Germany. Germany and France did not want Georgia nor Ukraine in Nato 2008. US proceeded to provide arms for Georgia anyway. Georgia war happened, EU condemned neither Russia nor Georgia. 2014 coup happened. Sanctions happened, Germany gas flow still continued. At one point Germany got much closer to China and Russia than US. Nato was becoming irrelevant and when Trump was thinking about getting out of Nato, France and Germany were not against it, some sources say that they have asked US to leave Nato. First they wanted to sanction Germany because of that pipeline. After that three different US officials told they'll end it, one being Biden himself. Pipeline is sabotaged and Germany doesn't even want to know the perpetrator. Sweden won't publish info and the independent UN investigation is prevented. Germany has cut ties with it's biggest gas provider. US is now biggest provider of gas for Germany with four times higher prices. Inflation reduction act gets the German companies hungry for cheap energy move to the US. Germany shuts down it's Nuclear power plants, they could have revoked the old vote like Sweden did with their similiar vote. They now drive coal powered EVs. US has troops on European soil, in Germany. Germany and Poland are not such a friends. US invest in Poland. Poland's influence inside EU has risen a lot.They demand Germany to pay up some WW2 reparations. With propping up Eastern Europe division is sown and power is sifting from west to east. Germany did not want to send the tanks to Ukraine. They told the US to send theirs, then they send the Leopards. Weapon stocks are pressured to be sent to Ukraine. They need to be refilled now, don't they. Now who could provide some weapons? EU comission receives also money from George Soro's open society foundation. Soro's is known for turning the bank of England upside down, also causing multiple economical crises and then going in for the sales. With enough money one can not lose. He himself has said that the best time ever was war because he profited immensely. He has been funding Hillary Clinton's campaign's. The master of neocons and turmoil of Libya, friend of Epstein, the holder of the congress email server, accuser of Trump being Russian agent, all with impunity. Russiagate with impunity. Graham was saying 2016 in speech in Ukraine, how the war was supposed to happen 2017. When Hillary was not elected they had to postpone it as Trump did not agree. He was coerced to approve weapons for Ukraine though, otherwise he would be Russian agent, wouldn't he? Everytime somebody tries do something they get immense media pressure. Macron asking to consider Russia's security concerns: Putin apologizer". Macron in China: "desperate traitor". Scholtz not sending weapons: "no balls to do anything". Scholtz selling part of that port to China: "receives money from the CCP". Look at how they hate Orban. The media is clearly complicit. I don't think that the EU has much choise but to obey. The actions of Germany can't be explained otherwise. Cutting off that China trade like US wants must not be wise. Nothing bad in diversifying, but if they do agree to participate in sanctions.. Germany losing it's biggest export markets for cars and such must hurt. I've derived this theory listening reporters like Whitney Webb, Greyzone, New Atlas, Geopolitical economy etc. Is one of the US goals of this war to stop Eurasian integration and keep Germany down? In Brzezinski's book he was saying something in lines that Ukraine is a key country to bring down Russia. US had to prevent European integration and make itself relevant on the continent. Atleast US has a clear strangle hold of Europe. What do you think about this angle?
@@os3984 Well, that there is pressure on Europe is certainly true. The issue with Nord Stream is also puzzling as an attack on critical infrastructure should in fact lead to a huge outcry. You are right about the very strong pressure, but this would lead us to expect counter reactions. Especially in international relations one of the main ideas is that states will try to balance with other states to counter pressure on them. But European nations at the moment are exhibiting the opposite behavior. They all pretend that pressure is coming form Russia and that's the reason for their "closer alliance" with the US, when in fact all the pressure over the last 30 years has been coming from the US to escalate with Russia, even against the wishes of the Europeans and they are still willing to just tag along to the point where they keep the NordStream investigation under taps (I'm sure Sweden and Germany know, it's just not possible they have no clue) and even openly support this. The puzzeling part is that there are so so so many Europeans super happy with being made into pawns of the US to the point where the Ukrainians are willing to bleed for the US, the EU is willing to expend all its treasure, and the top officials run to washington like little kids to be praised by Daddy-Biden for being good boys and gals. And even many people in Europe's neutrals are caught up in that mental bubble as if something had completely and utterly switched off all rational thinking and the ability to remember things that happened only 10 or 15 years ago. So this part is what's so puzzeling and that I believe must have some psychological component into which Propaganda feats very much. But your observation about pressure is certainly true as well. It goes together.
-It is great that you reaching out to related people. -When it comes to money, Finland was benefited greatly because of its neutrality and as you mentioned the neutrality is good for businesses (because it allows interactions and trade). So the question is what would the NATO and pro-NATO bring to their economy to fill the void, would that be just a temporary solution for the sake of distracting people or a lasting one in ways that would be more attached to military and wars or nothing much for the economy but a lot more media babble? -Although this is one of my favourite RUclips channels, but I wonder if you could check on the quality of the sound of your guests with your guests before you start making the videos. On this particular episode, it was very hard to understand your guest, other than his habit of saying 'right' which was kind of irritating.
IMO as a Finn, it was not that good economical calculation. Eastern Finland is withering away, the sanctions took wood away from the big cardboard and paper producers. Major industries in Finland. Also the construction companies took a hit. Higher gas prices contributed in rising costs. The new nuclear plant from Rosatom was cancelled. Finland could have sold energy. Instead they took the wind farm that will produce hydrogen. Only thing Finnish in that project is the place where it is built. I don't know if some companies have threatened with leaving though. Now we have a long border to guard. So was it a winning decision? Given the future problems EU will face like Uranium and gas not coming from Niger anymore, I can't say what will happen. I think it is highly problematic. Now we have no other choise pretty much so if the Italian and Portuguese banks fall it is a must for us to pay up. Now it looks like the membership in Nato has become the most threatening thing as Poland has it's troops on Belarussian border. If the US decides to escalate we are f*d. It was already close with that missile in Poland. Out of fear campaign, propaganda etc. Finns think Nato is protecting us. On the contrary it is most likely bringing the war to us. They can decide to open another front if they do a false flag. There was also the purge of politicians that did not support Nato. There were no voices critisizing Nato because "that has already been talked about". Given the memory and effort average person does to find to make an educated opinion, it was not talked about. It was an internet panel poll. Every week there were new statistics. They even celebrated that finally we can say whatever we ever wanted to say to the Russians. So pretty much people mainly decided on emotions. I feel it was a bad decision and I can say that every internet conversation has been "russian bot". So, I feel there was nothing organic about it and it was well managed campaign. The press has been doing politics for a while now. We were never presented the history of the conflict. If one does not remember they needed to search for it hard because google search is also filled with the British propaganda. Putin has nothing profitable here. The defence was based on calculation of not valuable resources + size of the military = too costly for nothing. We had almost demilitarized border, heads up from birder guards, embassy next to military base close to us, we could observe their military occationally. Now the security is Nato and hostility. Imagine that.
The worst thing that could happen to Ireland is to lose its neutrality. It worked well for Ireland during the secound world war. The real problem is Martin and Varadkar are doing dirty back door deals. Its interesting that a big push seems to be going on since Bidens visit. It was also noticeable that Blinkin was with Biden on his visit. Ireland should never be at the control of colonialist powers in any shape or form, its not in our DNA or history as a country that has suffered and continues to suffer from our colonialist neighbour. NATO is a disgusting force that should have disappeared after the fall of the Soviet union.
Agreed. I also think the western narrative of this conflict is full of gaping holes and hypocrisy and we would do well to distance ourselves from the poisoned well.
Great to see the conversation turning to irish neutrality. Many thanks.
Several decades ago, in a book that may have been authored by Kevin Roland, it laid out some of de Valera's faults, but noted that his adoption of neutrality in World War II kept Irish boys from being sent to the slaughter on foreign battlefields and beaches and the Irish Nation owed him a debt of gratitude, even with his drawbacks.
A debt is owed to Mr. Cole.
As an Irishman, I think our neutrality is extremely important. We should not join NATO. We can make no difference joining NATO. We can however make a difference being a neutral state and a voice for reason. The moment we join NATO we lose what little real sovereignty we have left. The EU has become a shitshow full of unelected corporate handpicked bureaucrats. The western narrative of this war in Ukraine is full of gaping holes and we should have nothing to do with it. We can help refugees and those in need as best we can
This channel's excellent - thanks for these great interviews! :)
Thanks for the support! 😃
Thank you Pascal Lottaz , for these excellent interviews.
@@bainmarie Thank you for the kind words!
In the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine two Irish ex-presidents, Mary Robinson and Mary McAlease, appeared on Ireland's very popular and culturally influential 'Late Late Show' to inform us 'Ireland is not neutral in this conflict'. The thrust of their pronouncements went unchallenged by the presenter, Ryan Tudridy. Rather he chose to act as cheerleader.
In spite of Roger's correct assertion that neutrality is embedded in the Irish DNA there is huge popular support for NATO and Western intervention in the Ukraine conflict. I suspect many Irish people are reassessing their instinct for neutrality in light of this.
It is very refreshing and encouraging to hear Roger Cole's perspective.
Thanks for the info! The public pressure campaign running through the media to change ppl‘s minds about neutrality is huge. I just don‘t get how it‘s possible that this part of the elite is so powerful in politics and the media when the popular sentiment is clearly still different according to opinion pols… why is it that in places of power there are so disproportionately many neocons/ pro NATO and pro war forces? how did that self-selection happen?
@@neutralitystudies A good question. And one I won't pretend to answer. I think Roger Cole gives some good historical insights in your fine interview into how this evolved in the Irish context. Another thing is Ireland has very strong cultural and familial links with the US and US companies (notably tech) are huge employers here. There is massive inward investment. It would be a courageous (suicidal?) Govt. that sought to play hardball with the US over, for example, the use of Shannon airport for military transit. And as Roger Cole points out Irish sovereignty is constitutionally vested in its people but the people have to assert that sovereignty themselves otherwise it will go o they highest bidder - and it does! After the 2008 crash we had a triumvirate of extra national financial institutions forcing our govt.'s hand and signing off on our budgets. How can we claim to be sovereign at all when it has been demonstrated that we are merely paying tenants and our sovereignty depends on us nott getting behind in our rent?!
@@andrewroddy3278 That one is really a huge problem. I used to be a fan of the Euro until I understood that having a monetary union without a fiscal union dooms at least half of the union members (the once in a deficit) to political subservience as they have no way to regain economic competitiveness through devaluation. The Euro without a fiscal union and an fiscal exchange mechanism was a huge mistake. huge. And yes, that then gives leverage over domestic policy. Let's ask the Greek. They had it worst.
@@neutralitystudiesI provide a theory.
There is also a possibility of coercion in play. Those who do not obey get punished.
For example they punished Germany. Germany and France did not want Georgia nor Ukraine in Nato 2008. US proceeded to provide arms for Georgia anyway. Georgia war happened, EU condemned neither Russia nor Georgia. 2014 coup happened. Sanctions happened, Germany gas flow still continued. At one point Germany got much closer to China and Russia than US. Nato was becoming irrelevant and when Trump was thinking about getting out of Nato, France and Germany were not against it, some sources say that they have asked US to leave Nato.
First they wanted to sanction Germany because of that pipeline. After that three different US officials told they'll end it, one being Biden himself. Pipeline is sabotaged and Germany doesn't even want to know the perpetrator. Sweden won't publish info and the independent UN investigation is prevented. Germany has cut ties with it's biggest gas provider. US is now biggest provider of gas for Germany with four times higher prices. Inflation reduction act gets the German companies hungry for cheap energy move to the US. Germany shuts down it's Nuclear power plants, they could have revoked the old vote like Sweden did with their similiar vote. They now drive coal powered EVs.
US has troops on European soil, in Germany. Germany and Poland are not such a friends. US invest in Poland. Poland's influence inside EU has risen a lot.They demand Germany to pay up some WW2 reparations. With propping up Eastern Europe division is sown and power is sifting from west to east. Germany did not want to send the tanks to Ukraine. They told the US to send theirs, then they send the Leopards.
Weapon stocks are pressured to be sent to Ukraine. They need to be refilled now, don't they. Now who could provide some weapons?
EU comission receives also money from George Soro's open society foundation. Soro's is known for turning the bank of England upside down, also causing multiple economical crises and then going in for the sales. With enough money one can not lose. He himself has said that the best time ever was war because he profited immensely. He has been funding Hillary Clinton's campaign's. The master of neocons and turmoil of Libya, friend of Epstein, the holder of the congress email server, accuser of Trump being Russian agent, all with impunity. Russiagate with impunity. Graham was saying 2016 in speech in Ukraine, how the war was supposed to happen 2017. When Hillary was not elected they had to postpone it as Trump did not agree. He was coerced to approve weapons for Ukraine though, otherwise he would be Russian agent, wouldn't he?
Everytime somebody tries do something they get immense media pressure. Macron asking to consider Russia's security concerns: Putin apologizer". Macron in China: "desperate traitor". Scholtz not sending weapons: "no balls to do anything". Scholtz selling part of that port to China: "receives money from the CCP". Look at how they hate Orban. The media is clearly complicit.
I don't think that the EU has much choise but to obey. The actions of Germany can't be explained otherwise. Cutting off that China trade like US wants must not be wise. Nothing bad in diversifying, but if they do agree to participate in sanctions.. Germany losing it's biggest export markets for cars and such must hurt.
I've derived this theory listening reporters like Whitney Webb, Greyzone, New Atlas, Geopolitical economy etc.
Is one of the US goals of this war to stop Eurasian integration and keep Germany down? In Brzezinski's book he was saying something in lines that Ukraine is a key country to bring down Russia. US had to prevent European integration and make itself relevant on the continent.
Atleast US has a clear strangle hold of Europe.
What do you think about this angle?
@@os3984 Well, that there is pressure on Europe is certainly true. The issue with Nord Stream is also puzzling as an attack on critical infrastructure should in fact lead to a huge outcry. You are right about the very strong pressure, but this would lead us to expect counter reactions. Especially in international relations one of the main ideas is that states will try to balance with other states to counter pressure on them. But European nations at the moment are exhibiting the opposite behavior. They all pretend that pressure is coming form Russia and that's the reason for their "closer alliance" with the US, when in fact all the pressure over the last 30 years has been coming from the US to escalate with Russia, even against the wishes of the Europeans and they are still willing to just tag along to the point where they keep the NordStream investigation under taps (I'm sure Sweden and Germany know, it's just not possible they have no clue) and even openly support this. The puzzeling part is that there are so so so many Europeans super happy with being made into pawns of the US to the point where the Ukrainians are willing to bleed for the US, the EU is willing to expend all its treasure, and the top officials run to washington like little kids to be praised by Daddy-Biden for being good boys and gals. And even many people in Europe's neutrals are caught up in that mental bubble as if something had completely and utterly switched off all rational thinking and the ability to remember things that happened only 10 or 15 years ago. So this part is what's so puzzeling and that I believe must have some psychological component into which Propaganda feats very much.
But your observation about pressure is certainly true as well. It goes together.
Christ Roger, for a split second you teminded me of wee Sammy..😂
-It is great that you reaching out to related people.
-When it comes to money, Finland was benefited greatly because of its neutrality and as you mentioned the neutrality is good for businesses (because it allows interactions and trade). So the question is what would the NATO and pro-NATO bring to their economy to fill the void, would that be just a temporary solution for the sake of distracting people or a lasting one in ways that would be more attached to military and wars or nothing much for the economy but a lot more media babble?
-Although this is one of my favourite RUclips channels, but I wonder if you could check on the quality of the sound of your guests with your guests before you start making the videos. On this particular episode, it was very hard to understand your guest, other than his habit of saying 'right' which was kind of irritating.
IMO as a Finn, it was not that good economical calculation. Eastern Finland is withering away, the sanctions took wood away from the big cardboard and paper producers. Major industries in Finland. Also the construction companies took a hit. Higher gas prices contributed in rising costs. The new nuclear plant from Rosatom was cancelled. Finland could have sold energy. Instead they took the wind farm that will produce hydrogen. Only thing Finnish in that project is the place where it is built. I don't know if some companies have threatened with leaving though.
Now we have a long border to guard.
So was it a winning decision? Given the future problems EU will face like Uranium and gas not coming from Niger anymore, I can't say what will happen. I think it is highly problematic. Now we have no other choise pretty much so if the Italian and Portuguese banks fall it is a must for us to pay up.
Now it looks like the membership in Nato has become the most threatening thing as Poland has it's troops on Belarussian border. If the US decides to escalate we are f*d. It was already close with that missile in Poland.
Out of fear campaign, propaganda etc. Finns think Nato is protecting us. On the contrary it is most likely bringing the war to us. They can decide to open another front if they do a false flag.
There was also the purge of politicians that did not support Nato. There were no voices critisizing Nato because "that has already been talked about". Given the memory and effort average person does to find to make an educated opinion, it was not talked about. It was an internet panel poll. Every week there were new statistics. They even celebrated that finally we can say whatever we ever wanted to say to the Russians. So pretty much people mainly decided on emotions.
I feel it was a bad decision and I can say that every internet conversation has been "russian bot". So, I feel there was nothing organic about it and it was well managed campaign. The press has been doing politics for a while now. We were never presented the history of the conflict. If one does not remember they needed to search for it hard because google search is also filled with the British propaganda.
Putin has nothing profitable here. The defence was based on calculation of not valuable resources + size of the military = too costly for nothing. We had almost demilitarized border, heads up from birder guards, embassy next to military base close to us, we could observe their military occationally. Now the security is Nato and hostility. Imagine that.
The worst thing that could happen to Ireland is to lose its neutrality. It worked well for Ireland during the secound world war. The real problem is Martin and Varadkar are doing dirty back door deals. Its interesting that a big push seems to be going on since Bidens visit. It was also noticeable that Blinkin was with Biden on his visit. Ireland should never be at the control of colonialist powers in any shape or form, its not in our DNA or history as a country that has suffered and continues to suffer from our colonialist neighbour. NATO is a disgusting force that should have disappeared after the fall of the Soviet union.
Agreed. I also think the western narrative of this conflict is full of gaping holes and hypocrisy and we would do well to distance ourselves from the poisoned well.