How Ireland Became Bitterly Divided | Irish War of Independence
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- 2023 marks the 25th anniversary of signing of The Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement, which brought an end to 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland known as 'the Troubles'. This conflict had a deep and embedded history that stretches back over a century.
Between 1919 and 1921, Ireland played host to a long and bloody guerrilla conflict between British state forces and Irish republican guerrillas, in the form of Irish Volunteers or the Irish Republican Army (IRA). The conflict would completely transform the political landscape in Ireland.
In this documentary, Dr Conor Mulvagh and Professor Marie Coleman break down this critical period of Irish history, and the legacy of the War of Independence today.
Directed by Mark Bowsher.
Discover the past on History Hit with ad-free exclusive podcasts and documentaries released weekly presented by world renowned historians Dan Snow, Suzannah Lipscomb, Lucy Worsely, Mary Beard and more. Watch, listen and read history wherever you are, whenever you want it. Available on all devices: Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, Android TV, Samsung Smart TV, Roku, Xbox, Chromecast, and iOs & Android.
We're offering a special discount to History Hit for our subscribers, get 50% off your first 3 months with code RUclips: www.access.historyhit.com/
Ireland didnt become divided, it was divided.
Yes indeed by the Protestant William of Orange who initiated the colonization of the north of Ireland with fellow Protestants … the Protestant elite land owners became the bosses of the poor Catholics and took advantage of them … that was the start of the Troubles !!! … tioc faidh ar la !!!
Exactly. It was settled and occupied by foreigners.
@@vvv7147 what do you know about Ireland? what would someone like you possibly know about Ireland???
Ireland was united under a high king from the 5th century onwards. Britain only came into existence in 1707. So do yourself a favour and stop lecturing your betters about things you know nothing about.
@@vvv7147and so the Noble English invaded and set it all right by killing all who opposed them, right? 😂 Well, history has caught up with them. Time to go ‘home’ now. Home being across the Irish’s Sea to the EAST.
England is not in Ireland .. the NI Protestant who have been there 450 years & are as Irish as anyone & are your problem .. You pretending they dont exist is EXACLY the same way that the Brits treated the Irish in the 18th
And their excess, the Brits have actually tried to check.. however the Republic can only absorb them in a civl war .. did you learn nothing from the troubles
That is NOT England’s problem anymore .. its for you and the Orangemen to sort out & lapsing in to fantasy about 800 years ago wont help
And I’m Republican ..
Also,, get real about history .. Scotland is NAMED after its Irish invaders.. as every Scottish school child learns.. Wales was invaded by the Irish .. and the Irish Viking invasion was the most brutal in its history
The NORMANs invaded both England and then Ireland 50 years later ..
You let the British off for the Black & Tans with such fairly tale nonsense@@stephenlight647
I am English, of working-class background and I have visited Ireland many times. I love the Irish people and hate the UK ruling class probably even more than the Irish Republicans do! Please do not tar all of us with the same brush. God bless the Irish people and I hope one day the whole of Ireland is united as one country ruling itself! James Connolly is one of my heroes!
Don't you worry brother, I enjoy visiting your country as you do mine. We're all friends now.
@@ConorMaguire-wl6vkagreed we have the same enemy now.
I'm irish and grew up in England and back to Ireland. I love both countries. No one is responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
We have so much in common, and for the best part, we're like siblings. Life's too short to hate and you can't move forward with 2 eyes on the past.
@@MolloyPolloy true story
Now your talking he was a great man who was born in scotland who helped and gave his life for ireland
Ireland goes through all this for all these years. To end up with the disgrace of a government we have in 2022.
You don't even know what year it is.
And worse to come sinn fein
@@seamusgallagher9872glory to the left!! 🫡
You voted for it!
Ireland And South Africa forever WITHOUT the violence and hatred. ☝️🙌😢❤
Fantastic content , excellent quality and incredibly informative
Iv seen loads of RUclips videos about the early 1900s in Ireland but this video explains it better than them all..thank you...😊
An excellent summary & presentation. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the comprehensive coverage of this difficult topic. Two wonderful presenters.
I've never read or heard a more comprehensive but brevet presentation on the uprising.
Marie and Conor are wonderful and complimentary in their monologues. I particularly enjoyed Marie's mention of the Carr family, revered here in Australia, for those who know of the sisters and brothers.
Well done and thanks.
Tiocfaidh a'r la'!
🇨🇮
Erin Go Bragh ! One day we shall be free !!! 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
You fight to get the bits out then let the rest of the world in. So much for your Irish nationalism.
@@samuelhynes8702the newcomer is a quest in Ireland the Brit is a squatter there’s a big difference
26+6=1☘️
@@That.IrishBastard1916 The 1921-22 division was seen at the time as temporary.
@@samuelhynes8702oh look it's a west brit jackeen traitor.
A great video, as a English man. learning about these sort of things really opens my eyes to the fact that we made stupid mistakes in terms of dealing with certain situations. That ultimately are still having ramifications to this very day, and it's a shame that most British people can't understand this. as I think it's one of the roadblocks that is hampering our country today.
@freebeerfordworkers gonna be honest. when it comes to learning about history. I'll stick to certified historians telling me what what happened and what lessons need to be learned.
My point is. that Ireland, like Scotland and Wales. we should be miles closer in terms of relationships and less pointless squabbling. but instead we have people like you, who think they know better and try to give valid reasons as to why things happened the way they did.
@freebeerfordworkersThere is a lot of valid points you make and you have come in for some criticism. However I have studied this conflict for over 20 years and have corrected both Irish and British historians. I have also debunked both Republican and British myths. You made a reference to the 3rd Anglo-Afghan War and subsequent campaign in Waziristan,revolt in Mesopotamia(modern day Iraq) etc and you downplay the Irish War of Independence. Due to the geographical proximity of Ireland the events in Ireland were making headlines in the British Press. Every ambush and reprisal in Ireland were making British politicians in both the House of Commons and Lords make both hawkish and conciliatory speeches. It was dividing political parties and individuals within the same party. Every aspect of British society were not escaping the events in Ireland. For goodness sake it was an insurgency on Britains doorstep and not taking place in some far flung exotic corner of the Empire. Have you seen how the British newspapers(both national and local) level covered the repatriation of British soldiers in Union Flag draped coffins? It was having more of an effect on the British public more than the other conflicts you mentioned. The IRA were also carrying out operations on the British mainland. There was more British soldiers KIA in Ireland in tbe last 6 months of the conflict than there was for the worst full year in either Northern Ireland(Troubles) and Afghanistan. In the last 6 months of the conflict the Crown Forces sustained over 1,000 casualties in both KIA & WIA. The conflict in Ireland was gathering momentum while those other conflicts you mentioned were drawing to a close.
IM shocked that most Brits has no idea what the Irish go through. My grandfather was born in in 1895 from endured mother from county cork. She was almost 40 when he was born. Ive heard many bad things how the Irish were treated. And to now know most young Brits are not taught anything about the slavery Irish endured.
I bet if another country becomes majority they would want to break away from the U.K.. That's fine when in Britain do as the Brits do. Just take it😢😢
@freebeerfordworkers well done Sir.
As a commonwealth person half Irish and half English I find this history fascinating . May peace live in our lives , steel in our spines and love in our hearts
is it Derry, or Londonderry?
Will ya go'way there's only one Derry man@@arktos298
@@arktos298 Derry
@@arktos298 if respectful Londonderry if local derry. Doire
@@arktos298Both....it is a compromise.... that's how Nicholas Parsons approached it on just a minute....and the civilised radio 4 audience had a chuckle but seemed accepting
It was an informative and wonderful introduction video. Video clearly explained the recent history term of Ireland 🇮🇪 Island. Thank you, respectful (History Hit)channel for sharing
Fantastic piece... very eloquent
I recently read a biography of Michael Collins and found this period of Irish history very sad. The British were very heavy handed and made more enemies than they started with.
Mick wrote a path to freedom which Ernesto Guevara had when he visited Micks grave just before he went to Bolivia.
A travesty fuelled by london populating the North with Scottish protestants.
Remember the Balfour Treaty stabbing the Palestine in the back.
@@hirepgym6913The major difference is that Collins was trying to found a Republic, whereas Che was trying to create authoritarian governments. Also unlike Collins, Che’s venture into Bolivia ended in failure. And unlike Che Collins knew when to stop fighting.
The British were terrorists.
The ira and affiliated groups were freedom fighters. They targeted military and government officials surgically to damage the british government. The British killed innocent non combatants indiscriminately with little effort to target military opposition. See croak(sp) park incident
Tim Pat coogan biography of Michael Collins is the best
Great to see a proper documentary that doesn’t treat the north like some shadow in the background that get a passing mention. Most people in the south don’t even know Connolly lived in Belfast, Larkin, Jack White and Casement were very active in Belfast and Clarke was a Tyrone man. Jack White, although maybe not a main character needs recognition for his very colourful life. He was the Protestant opposition to Carson and helped firm the Irish volunteers, campaigned to help Connolly when captured and even fought the fascists in Spain.
Connollys daughter walked from Dublin to Belfast,
Spot on pretty much perfect video there
Well presented
Very informative video. I took a poli-sci course in college about The Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. I wish we would have more time to study more history. History is large and class time short. So I love videos like these. I have ancestors who came to the US from Ireland during the Potatoe Famine. I always been interested in the things, political, natural, etc for why my family came here to the States.
Same
Agreed.
Thank you.
A good reminder for me. There were good arguments on both sides of the civil war. Good people too.
Excellent video - feel quite ignorant as a Brit of this history - thanks for bringing it to light
Roger Casements body was returned in 1965. Not as the photo says 1916, and the photo is clearly taken in the 1960s. I'm from an old Republican line, and grew up next to Casement Park, West Belfast.
Excellent work guys both of you would be fantastic History Teacher,remind me of my old History Teacher from Donegal.Collins need I say more
Dev 😡
Mr Griffith be proud of “Our Selves” in the Majority in Eire now 🙂
Go raibh real amat agat.
When my grandmother was a young child she was raised in the Liberties and witnessed the Canon Fire on the Four Courts
( borrowed British Canons )
I think you mean "go raibh míle maith agat"
Excellent.
Let the people sing ☘️
What the British did in Ireland over the centuries is truly unforgivable. Most British people are surprised when they learn how the reality of how the Irish were actually treated. How they tried to eradicate their culture and treated them like animals in their own country
And yet many have forgiven. Life moves on. Noone alive today is to blame for any of this.
Thar is exactly the point....British Empire Terrorism and their complete lack of empathy. Long Live OUR REPUBLIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@julianbond9933 man, as one irishman to another, you sound unhinged
@@Scoob505 N Irish I would assume..
@@julianbond9933 i just said that i am irish
Oliver Cromwell must really hate these types of documentary
The island of Ireland voted overwhelmingly in favour of independence in 1918. Britain threatened all out war and partitioned the island, placing the british border through Ulster. All to appease a minority on the island. After years of gerrymandering, they are now a minority in the 6 counties. There will be a new United Ireland in my lifetime.
As an English person, albeit with some Irish roots via my maternal grandmother, I truly hope you are right. I love Ireland, its people and their culture and that includes family members living in the North of Ireland, though they are all Republicans. It will be a great day for the whole of humanity when Ireland finally gains its freedom. I’m 72 and I earnestly hope I’m alive and sensible enough to see it.
Wet have a new challenge now and it's not going to be pretty.
A very balanced and informative narration of Irelands recent history and what ever the future holds I hope Ireland remains close to their cousins here in Britain. My own family is English, but I also have deep Irish roots, as do many others here, right across Britain.
I wouldn't say its balanced. It mentions Ulster Unionists on passing but never goes into any real detail on that subject or people, it doesn't look at that other defining battle in Irish history in 1916 the Somme for example. It does mention the attacks on police but doesn't mention those police officers were themselves Irish (I raised an eyebrow when it was said the 1921 settlement allowed the first "indigenous Irish police"). It mentioned sectarian violence in Belfast but not elsewhere. etc etc Its an accurate in the facts it presents but I wouldn't call it balanced narration.
@@Sammy1234568910 agreed it didn't mention that the British deployed Tanks (Whippet Model see photo Belfast Telegraph Nov 26th 1919 (only report)) in Co. Clare against civilians. Didn't mention British Troops carrying out street-executions on stretcher bearers (Montague St. Easter week (the street used by Carson to get his carriage into his house at the start)). Didn't mention that 2 pupils of my school were executed, Didn't mention that they dragged a red haired inured man from a field-hospital bed & later executed him. Yes, I agree, too much brutality hidden. Maybe the civil war in Northern Ireland from 1972 (Ballymurphy & Street executions (& breach of firing-orders, general-orders) Derry) to 1998 could have been avoided. - before you respond - British forces (irregulars) threatened to bomb my secondary school, and bombed a bus stop, nearby on a Friday where school kids would gather (across the green & down a street from Carson's House)!
Nothing good ever came from that country - England.
@@Sammy1234568910 Sure the police were "Irish" ie. born in Ireland but way over 95% were of Protestant stock originally from Britain. If you asked them at the time if they were Irish they would say no but would say they were British because they knew the difference and so do you so cut the bullshit.
Only in your head. It's totally Irish Catholic biased. 😅
I had English roots on my mothers side,they were prodstant,they grew to detest the British empire,not English people,because of British imperial wars which directly effected their family,and what have we nowadays Globalist wars.
Brilliant video. History hit tv always gives us best docs. Love all UK and British isles history. We know it takes a lot of time and hard work to make these videos. So we always appreciate your hard work.
…Ok, except that this in neither UK nor British isles history. Ireland is not in the British isles. No hostility on your comment, glad you like or appreciate history to do with Ireland and the UK, just simply asking to be respectful.
They started the beginning of the end,This generation should finish it Finally
I think it will be the next generation. I don't think a simple majority vote is going to be enough. The vote has to be generational, above 60%. While that's not called for in the GFA, it is prudent. A vote for Irish unification has to pass so significantly that it would be unlikely to be overturned within a generation.
@@jedsithorwhy?
50%+1 is all that's required and when it happens north Irish unionists become a small minority in the Irish nation, approximately 12%.
Why on earth would 60% be required in the north of the Island?
You sound like you're spinning a unionist line, are you British perhaps?
Overturned? 😂😂😂😂
Go have a lie down you're utterly clueless.
Remember what I said, 12%.
Fascinating and well made documentary ! My great-grandparents were friends of Padraig Pearse and Michael Collins. My great-granny was in Cumann na Mban as well. Their house in Artane was burnt down during the civil war on the 1st of February 1923 by the Ra as a reprisal for the execution of a young man called Fisher in Kilmainham Gaol even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was a dark time in Ireland's history and it has been hard to get any information about the background. So, thank you for shedding some light on the events leading up to that time.
Great documentary, could have done with more ads though to ensure equal time to both.
Only two mins in but Jaysus could yous sort out the decibel levels between the voice and music
The problem was that Churchill was prepaed to go vack to war unless the Eire Dal afreed to have the country under Westminister but still have indepedence light. The British history in Ireland was unforgiving all the way back to 1798 and the battle of Vinegar Hill in Enniscorthy....From an Irish perpective here in County Wexford.
Unforgivable circa Cromwell.
Catholic Defender vigilante agrarian society murder Protesants Scullabgue barn. and Wexford Bridge after seeing Ornagemen Loyalists militia murder Irish Roman Catholic civilians and prisoners. This led to Ulster Presbyterians abandoning Irish Republicanism and removing themselves from the united Irishmen more than anything during the 19th Century.
Great video. Could you do a video about Ireland's involvement in World War One. Conscription was never enforced on the island, however about 200,000 volunteered, with over 30,000 losing their lives. Irish suffered particularly heavily at Gallipoli. It's fascinating how so many Irish men, both north and south, Catholic and Protestant, were fighting for Britain at the same time that all this was happening.
Soldiers returning the Irish Free State faced hostile treatment from the authorities, including being barred from holding civil service positions.
@@thomasb4152That was after WW2, not WW1.
@@wallythewondercorncake8657 no, it was WW1. It's largely missed from most Irish history narratives. In part because it's not easy to fit into the narrative you've just watched. It won't let me post links but if you Google this, here's an article from the Guardian. There's a growing literature on the subject now:
The forgotten Irish soldiers who fought for Britain in the first world war
Ireland was on the cusp of the Easter Rising when thousands of Irish men joined up to serve with the British army in the first world war. They returned to an utterly changed country; they were officially forgotten. This is one man's story
Elaine Byrne
Sat 5 Apr 2014 03.00 EDT
Just an fyi, between 50-55,000 of that 200,000 figure were either regular members of the British army, members of the Special Reserve, or Reservists called to the colours at the start of the war. Also, in reference to the situation after the Second World War, it was, in the majority, only those soldiers who had deserted the Irish army who were barred from holding civil service positions etc.
@@thomasb4152 Explain to me how they were returning to the Irish Free State when that didn't even exist until years after WW1?
Also stop liking your own comments, loser.
Mistakes have been made by all parties. It is time for peace to continue for all. Whats happened was wrong and there has been and will never be a winner on any side.
Who tried to conquer in the first place?
WRONG.we were invaded thats no mistake
I'm a Canadian who's also glad to be an Irish citizen. I want Canada to follow Ireland's illuminating example and become, at last, a republic with it own head of state and true equality for its citizens.
Yes, true equality, regardless of whether or not someone is vaccinated. I think you first need to get rid of Trudeau.
Ireland was always Irish though, I’m not being funny, but you’re not indigenous to Canada……so!!!
@@jojojacques810 if that person were born in Canada, that person is as indigenous as any other.
@@thatlittlevoice6354 no, that’s very disingenuous and you know it!
Canada was a very important supporter of Ireland in the early days of independence. Between them, they dismantled much of London's control of the Dominions.
Erin Go Bragh 💜💜💜💜💜
My Grandfather Joseph Healy a hard working man was friends with Michael Collins .
To think that, if my great grandmother didn't take a boat ride, this would all be my upbringing. Instead, I'm a 43 year old Canadian, who is only hearing about this now.
"The British Empire" was always talked about as if it was ancient history, much like the Roman Empire. Shit was just 2 days ago generationally speaking.
It's crazy how the entire world can change from "Empires" to whatever it is today in just a couple of decades, and just as quickly, be less than a footnote in all of my upbringing.
Thank you for the great video. Succinct. I’ve gone down an Irish history rabbit hole recently, and I would like to know the current sentiments among republic citizens today. Is loyalist/english occupation of the north something young Irish discuss frequently as an issue, or has cognitive dissonance set in? I’ve got more to learn but right now my opinion more closely aligns with the IRB view that the Irish deserve the whole Island free of the Brits. Will northern folks buy in to accepting a step back economically in the short term for long term gain opportunity? Will the new nation retire the tricolor flag, and start fresh? I’m excited to visit Ireland one day and hopefully it’s to celebrate the official expulsion of British influence and occupation.
The Island of Britain is shared peacefully amongst three countries, why can't Ireland? It's all in the name.
Greatest
I never considered myself, an Australian, to be connected to my Irish ancestors.....but here we are.
Thank you Ireland you gave us WB Yeats and George Barnard Shaw. ❤
And Bram Stoker, James Joyce and Oscar Wilde.
@@GhastlyCretin
All of them are actually Anglo Irish !
@@johnbrereton5229 Well, James Joyce wasn't Anglo-Irish but the other 2 certainly were.
@@GhastlyCretin
There are 5 literary people that have been mention and they are all Anglo Irish including James Joyce. Read the book:
'James Joyce and the Anglo Irish' by Leonard Platt. Though Joyce supported Irish nationalism he still refused to exchange his British passport for an Irish one and even renewed it when it was out of date.
It just illustrates how close Britain and Ireland really are, despite the troubles.
@@johnbrereton5229 James Joyce was an Irish Catholic with Irish blood. In what respect do you consider him Anglo-Irish?
It was the Dreyse rifle in the Franco-Prussian war, not the Mauser.
I am surprised you did not comment on the death of Michael Collins.
Cork was completely ignored
Good old rule and divide again poor against poor through religion and class the powers that be know how to rule they have been doing it for hundreds of years god bless ireland i hope peace prevails for all in ireland best from scotland
you of all people understand the brutality of the english....Alba/Eire together.
"CuttleFISH in dirty water dyeing got ya' hypnotized🎶" plantagenet "guards domestic holding office with the state peace officers" com cham CAMeleon CAMden way not England's dream'in frankist Normandy camouflage lights camera action deception glamour def: black magic holly wand Hollywood i9Xlondon=666 Scotland yard up above glasco a new Albion where it is keeping your friends close your enemies (Yiddish) closer "birds from sky to sky never asking why🎶" bicuspids=beak ovapositrix Cain)ine "werewolves of London again🎶" ironshirt is supernatural octopi/sepia have bird beaks and chromatophores rolling prowlers 30+ ft. waves ride out the wave or die deep purple monarchy grade8th's blackcherry blue flesh implodes to evil purple interesting Freudian/English slip the IRA are animals the gazans are animals.
Thank Henry ll & sending his Norman Lord's. They never left.
Interesting
I love Ireland 🇮🇪
History tends to forget that Ireland was torn between those living and working under centuries of British oversight - with the real
prospect of home rule within reach and the sort who formed the IRA and were "hardline" in their attitudes, even to terrorizing and
killing their own people to get their way. It is surely this that saw so much dire division following the agreement overseen in
London by Michael Collins who understood the long game but was "sacrificed" by De Valera. Arguably, Collins was the greater asset
to Ireland's future but the hardliners didn't see that.
Great documentary, short and concise. However brevity means important points are lost
The pre-WWI tensions are maybe underplayed, including the Larne gunrunning, the Ulster Covenant and the Curragh mutiny. It’s also relevant to mention the Dublin strikes of 1913 which fuel concerns among the business owning (overwhelmingly unionist) class that a socialist revolution is on the horizon and hence set the scene for the Divide and Rule strategy based on fueling sectarian tensions, especially in the north, that we see in 1920. The contribution to the British effort in WWI from both the Unionists and the Redmondite IVF is largely skipped. The 1918 election is presented as a SF landslide, which is consistent with how it is generally presented, but SF’s victory in the election was magnified by the First Past the Post system that gave them plurality but not overwhelming majority. The Belfast pogrom is touched upon but not elaborated upon, and there is little or no mention is how northern nationalists felt abandoned by southern compatriots in the Free State government (a recurring theme that we see in later decades). And finally, the Treaty saw the removal of British forces from Ireland with the exception of a few treat ports??? Not quite!!!!
@freebeerfordworkers "I'm about the only person to have actually scrutinised the vote": Are you actually serious? There's plenty of literature out there on it.
Tiocfaidh ar la!!!
26+6=1 🇮🇪
An in-depth video about the plantation of Ireland would be greatly appreciated especially for those American Ulster Scots that thinks they are Irish 😊
They are Irish!
Was watching a history on sir Bruce the great and brave heart and they mention the name of McClure my grandfather last name was McClure i was wondering if my great grand parents cane from Scottish Irish decent love history i know that my grand mother and her parents came off of the charakee reservation and Grand parents was born in the early 1900'S
Being English you dont get told the other side of the story. Thank you for the insight
Some comments here are heartingly forgiving or embracing of progress. However some are still so entrenched in the bitterness of what should be the past.
Many suffered but why continue the cycle. If ireland is to be united it must not repeat the mistakes of the past and instead allow the views and beliefs of nationalists and unionists to be expressed and compromise and accommodate all satisfactorily. There will always be decent and dosagreement but we're all people and we should remember that alone.
Whats going to happen if there is an united ireland,banning of the orange order,Banning ulster scots,banning parades highly unlikely.Apart from dual citizenship and exceptions around irish being compulsory there is very little thats going to change for unionists bar of course the constitutional change.I don't think commonwealth membership will fly but apart from that the unionists have nothing to fear.
One day we will be reunited ...it is a normal progression.
Never happen
Just want to say, I love listening to the Irish accent. That is all.
Also, what a sad part of history.
Michael Collins is my hero 💯💗🙏
An incredible warrior & a peacemaker
Collins was a paedophile.
My da's side of the family are Irish (C. Wicklow), British and Scottish. My ma's side Irish (C. Donegal). I've spent my whole life trying to figure out the bitterness. I live in the Pacific NW in America, but will return to Ireland to distribute all of my siblings and parents ashes in the fall.
You’re Irish and British. Don’t let people tell you you can’t be both. You can. I’m English and British.
British and Scottish? You mean English and Scottish, the Scottish are British too, Scotland is in Britain.
The memory of United Irishmen 1791-1803 and Irish Rebellion 1798 by Wolfe Tone and 1803 by Robert Emmet are forgotten.
For a clip titled "How Ireland Became Bitterly divided" it didn't really talk about the divisions. Ulster Unionism was mentioned on passing but it was never really looked at in detail, and to understand division you need to look at both sides of the division. We never heard about the service of the 36th and 16th Divisions for example. The conscription debate was completely missed out which was a hot topic at the time. Likewise the negotiations into the foundation of Northern Ireland wasn't mentioned. Got to see some republican murals in Belfast we could have had a nice contrast if we also saw some unionist ones especially when talking about the Ulster Covenant that also wasn't mentioned. I learned how the Irish free State became independent but I didn't really learn "how Ireland became bitterly divided" as the title alluded.
The title was referring to the civil war and the divisions within nationalism, I would imagine. It's difficult to look at these things in detail without having a two hour video.
Fair points all in all.
Its impossible to explain how Ireland became divided in a video about the period of independence. Its also meaninhless. The roots of division were set centuries earlier when the stare ethnically cleansed Ireland and imported armed hostile settlers, when the state enacted apartheid laws, when the state enforced new religious sectarian laws, etc, etc,
If you look at Unionist symbols even now in 2023 you never see 1922, it's always 1690. Partition resulted from (planned) division, it didn't cause it.
This is why we learn real history to be able to separate cause amd effect, not just to learn off a string of dates.
Hopefully you'll be able to do this some day.
@freebeerfordworkers "This is not confined to Ireland. I am one of the last generation to go to an English secondary school and be taught that the empire was a great and glorious thing." And you're decrying the bias in this video 😂😂
@freebeerfordworkers Not sure how old you are, but my generation (I'm 54) hardly looked at the British Empire unless we specifically asked to study Modern World History, which teaches you that every country powerful enough in the 19th-20th centuries was scrambling for an empire, even modern Italy in North Africa. Everyone likes to have a dig at the British (and rightly so in some cases) but we were hardly evil in relation to all the other empires that have ever been, just the most recent, unless you count China (e.g. Tibet / South China Sea), Russia (Crimea) etc. etc. ~The list is endless. You kind of want to say to people get over it. Even slavery wasn't a British invention, the Moors were stealing Cornish prisoners for centuries. We've created a rich country on the back of some questionable activities, but that richness is what enables us to support immigration of the very people who criticize us.. ironic but true.
Over all a comprehensive account of Ireland and its recent history over the last 100 years or so. I have one issue that I am very unhappy with ... it is this, the duplicity of Eamon De Valera!.
He was the leader of Sinn Fein, the Irish majority of republicans, Irish delegate's to the peace treaty with The British Government at No 10 Downing Street London.
After the first meeting, he recognized that an Irish Republic would not be achieved ... so he did not return and he put Michael Collins at the helm of the Irish delegation instead of himself.
When the treaty with partition was signed, he apposed it Yet He Did Not Attend to Negotiate as He was The Leader of Ireland.
He apposes in it, leaves Sinn Fein and forms Fina Fail ... He then contradicts himself again by entering The Free State Parliament as Leader Of The Free State
He then pronounces a Republic without the North East Six Counties.
And he still had monetary parity with the U.K. pound sterling (that ended in 1979)
🇮🇪🍀🇵🇸
Corporal Jones makes an appearance.
What would them good fellers think of the seal out fellers today 10-09-2023
=Us British treating the Irish like less than shit for centuries=
"bUt WhY dO tHeY wAnT iNdEpEnDeNcE?"
Well they should've been better at war then, why don't you go live in Ireland if you love them so much?
@@fyrdman2185 British should stop whinging about immigrants most from former British colonies
@@fyrdman2185you couldn’t wage war now with sandwich in greasy paper bag
When shipyard workers came from Scotland to work in the Belfast dockyards, seeds of sectarianism was sown
What about the Scott ( from Ireland ) invading what is now Scotland ?
it might have been nice to explain how it all started in the first place
Okay, but where's any mention of the Irish Citizen Army?
I was given an decent education from some mates when I went to university many of whom were northern Irish but were republicans. For a couple of years I was like “yeah they deserve full independence” but then met a lad also from Northern Ireland who identified as British, supported England in the football the works. That’s when the penny dropped that it’s an awfully delicate situation that may never fully get resolved.
If you believe imperialism & colonialism is wrong, you should side with a fully free indepentant Ireland. If not then you should believe the opposite. That's the long and short of it.
That's the sort of simplistic codswallop that has caused these problems in geographical Ireland over the past 120 years. It is the likes of you who are the root of the problem.@@OldSkoolWax
@@OldSkoolWaxThe world is sadly more complex than that.
@@OldSkoolWaxIrish tried to take over Scotland and Wales in the day bud and it was just a fact that they got worked eventually, that was the times, did you really think Saint Patrick was Irish? Lol nope he is from Wales or Scotland and was kidnapped and brought to Ireland as a slave. Everyone wants to feel sorry for those who lost the imperialism game but forget they played in the game too
@BigRed2 You're actually out here comparing the activities of Irish tribes in the 5th century to that of the British Empire, which still resonates with people to this very day in Ireland and other countries due to issues surrounding colonial legacy 😂 Take N. Ireland, which is partitioned to this day. The Empire only started breaking up in the 20th century, and you're out here talking about St Patrick 😅
Lets just ignore cork altogether, munster got one mention.
That female speaker at the beginning is a budding supermodel...
I think a point often missed, is that the British Government did want to leave the whole of Ireland. The Unionists had their reasons to remain within the Union and were in open, armed opposition to the Government and there was a high risk of mutiny if the army were confronted them. Effectively both communities wanted self determination and that’s what the British tried to accommodate in 1921. Of course it didn’t work out particularly well!
Just nipping down the post office
Michael Collins
their reccee-scouts ended up with stella-artois instead of Guinness and got the same pissed-effective-effectual
All the ads really suck.
This is great, but the percussive music in the back is annoying.
Thanks for posting this, it's a shame so much of Irish history is politicised and the actual facts are shunned in favour of feelings. I suspect Ireland will remain as it is for the foreseeable future or Northern Ireland will be partitioned further, either way I just hope it brings about peace.
There won't be more partition. The most likely outcome, based on population and voting trends. is Irish unification but that's probably still decades away. Brexit might speed up the process but ultimately, if the UK honours the terms of the Good Friday Agreement (though recent history suggests they can't be trusted to honour international treaties) then unless Unionists start breeding like Catholics, unification is an inevitability.
Unfortunately, there's probably going to be violence. If Irish unification occurs, hardcore Loyalists are unlikely to greet that change peacefully. Meanwhile, if the UK reneges on the Good Friday Agreement, Republicans are likely to reach for the gun again.
@@jedsithor If you look at the census data on religion, how people identify and political allegiances you'll see the correlation between being catholic and republican no longer is as tight as it once was. Quite a number of Catholics identify specifically as northern Irish and are don't support reunification.
You also have to consider the fact that unionists are more likely to have moved to other parts of the UK and won't be polled but come a border vote will no doubt go home to make a difference.
@@aituk A Nationalist party won the most seats for the first time ever at the last election. The trend is heading toward Nationalist majorities. You're right that there's a growing number of people who see themselves as Northern Irish rather than British or Irish, but given how heavily subsidised the region is, I don't think anyone really believes it could survive as an independent country if that option were on the table.
Also, that trend was growing in relative peace time post-GFA, when the lack of borders and EU membership meant that people weren't thinking about the unification issue day to day. Brexit has changed that and those who saw themselves as Northern Irish are going to find themselves having to ask the questions they didn't want to ask.
If you're in Northern Ireland and don't have Nationalist or Unionist leanings, then the question of which country you're better off being a part of, the UK or Ireland, is an economic issue. What's better for your family? I don't think either country has made the strongest case so far but Brexit has certainly made it a pertinent question.
There's also the question of Scotland. I don't think they're likely to leave the UK within the next 10 years and recent SNP scandals have hurt the independence movement there but if the UK continues to suffer from Brexit and Scottish interests are ignored, independence may become a distinct possibility and that could have a domino effect.
@@jedsithor They won purely because of the voting system itself, if you tally up the unionist seats never mind the unionist vote it outnumbers them. You ofcourse have to add some if not all of the alliance vote to that which is essentially status quo. But you also have to consider that many people in Northern Ireland are restricted to getting DUP or Sinn Fein. If you're left wing and don't want a united Ireland you're in a pickle so you might vote sinn fein without even wanting a united ireland.
Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting it could survive on its own but the fact that they see themselves as different to Irish people is something to take note of. Not being British makes sense in the sense that you're not on the island of britain but to say you're not the same as the other irish people speaks volumes.
Brexit only makes a difference because people force it to make a difference, it shouldn't have to at all. We still have the common travel area duel citizenships, we had checks on goo when we were in the EU due to different vat and tax rates aswell as a different currency. It's overblown nonsense being used for political gain.
Economically you're far better off in the UK. The UK is wealthier than Ireland and subsidises NI and has done for a century now. Irelands economy is artificially inflated due to it being a prominent tax haven. When you account for that difference and calculate the cost of administering NI.... secretly I don't think the Irish mainstream politicians actually want to deal with the issue. They just say it cos they have to appear patriotic.
I don't think Scotland will ever leave the union either, the SNP case for independence is built on bigotry and lies much like the NI case for leaving the union however I admit the NI case does have more substance historically.
The only reason the SNP is in power is because of the political system. Add up the unionist party votes and they dominate the SNP/green/alba total easily
The truth is if Scotland left the Union there would be a divide there too, possibly resulting in some form of partition. One of the unions greatest strengths is you can be English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish and British at the same time. End of the day Scottish separatism would be a nightmare economically so there will always be areas wanting to leave, not least of which the borders
Tiocfaidh ár lá!!
The British government misjudged the situation in Ireland and mismanaged their response, in a very similar way to what they had done in America in 1776. Both occasions show an arrogant attitude and an unwillingness to understand the wishes of the people. It is sobering to think that with more foresight, better understanding a less martial strategy, Ireland today could be as Scotland and Wales and so many people would not have lost their lives. Maybe the USA would not have been born had we simply given them a voice. At the very least, both moves to independence could have been achieved without such terrible bloodshed.
I think most Englishmen today, like me, honour the wishes of people to be independent and are only too aware that our forebears made many mistakes,. Some they were forced to by circumstance but some through the outdated and prejudicial attitude of the elite.
Well no
Ye are not thought the history in the uk.
The Protestant mindset of Catholics mixed with the British mindset of Irish
The wigs literally called our race a disease and the famine was the best thing to happen. That’s not misjudging a response
Both the Protestant reformation and the old versions of the Tory government were genocide in Ireland.
The historical perspective of this one Irish-American is that from long practise and no one telling them it was wrong, the English have acquired something close to an addiction to Ireland. This perverse preoccupation expresses itself in how Little Englander and Home Counties MPs are so often looking over at the Island of Saints and Scholars and thinking, "We are now, as we always have been, entitled to a bit of that!"
Let me tell you as the descendant of Irish of both religio-political traditions: *you're not.*
@@stephenwright8824 I can appreciate that, from the perspective of an outsider, things may seem that way but I assure you it is no longer true. Just as Americans are not cowboys. Stereotypes are rarely correct.
The UK no longer has any ambitions in Ireland, with the exception of Northern Ireland and mutually beneficial trade. As a people, we have moved on.
When I was young, in the 50's & 60's, most Irish people in the UK were known to be builders and menial labourers (incorrectly of course) and the term 'navvie' was common (from navigation workers, who built the canals). Jokes about the stupid Irish were everywhere. Today Ireland is a centre of IT and technology and such an attitude is almost unheard of in the UK. Indeed you are more likely to hear a joke about Americans than the Irish.
Brits are aware of our history, good and bad but we are not governed by it, nor do we wish for it to return.
How did Ireland become bitterly divided?
England. England is the answer
26:45 27:20
Its really an easy question to answer : to rule the brits planted ireland with their own ppl , from mainland britain , to act as enforcers , they were the ancestors of loyalist ireland/ulster
The Scots protestants were invited and given land way back
There is no other former country from the British Empire that Britain retained a corner part of it.Partition was just a way that the English Cabinet could remind the Irish who was Boss.
Did I miss the bit where Michael Collins was assassinated?
cork
Needs to include German military intelligence role in providing, money, arms and training.
Ireland achieved what the Welsh and Scottish have been trying do for centuries. They just took up arms a lot more recently thr only reason I.m.o it didn't happen sooner is because of religious divides and internal fighting... I they weren't so divided the English couldn't back one. Divided and conquer ...
Y'all are brave to cover this, as it's still far from settled for some. Glad the Troubles are done tho, and hope for a peaceful future that features a United Ireland.
There will never be peace in a United Ireland. Just like republicans don't want to be British, Unionists don't want to live in the republic.
Freedom is not cheap.and while persuction exsits in ireland we will fight for our right of a unified eire. freedom from oppressors
@@edwardgallagher1386 But talk apparently is. The people of Northern Ireland are free, no one is being persecuted. No one is being oppressed.
If you can convince the 1 million unionists there to join EIRE good luck to ya, you can't.
All you can do is force them to join which will result in a lack of freedom, persecution and oppression.
They peace process only took place so thry could fill the country with hostile economic migrants. SF are globalist traitors.
You'd best worry about that other occupation coming your way.
a free state defence of the 26 countys video.
Have you heard of the 21st century .. its now available for download
Does it download where Ireland is going in the 21st century under globalist capitalism, o wait I know, to hell in a handbasket.@@foraustralia2558
The gunboat later became a boat of the Irish Navy..
I could have summed it up in 10 seconds, Protestant and Catholic,
Just like the Sunnis and Shiates in the middle east, it's ridiculous, we are all humans first and foremost, and you treat everyone the way you want to be treated, then we have our religious beliefs, family and friends ❤
My mother has told me this story that she remembers being told by her great-grandma as a child- not sure how accurate it is 🤷♀️ but allegedly, we're related to Jeremiah O'Donovan Rossa, he was a creating member of the IRB- or Fenian... the reason I'm unclear as this is a story passed down from a person long since dead, and being Irish they tended to have multiple wives/ kids 🤷♀️ storyline got muddled over the decades 🤷♀️ my mother has tried to do DNA testing/ genealogy- family tree searches, but without access to other curious family members, I guess it's just cool to think I COULD be related to a famous person
The truth is out soon, his wife, Mary Jane, leader of Erin
Dont know why, but those who are promoted for being security forces usually replaces the promouters, however a known internal enemies usually becomes a right hand for those who is running countries. There shoul be some hidden logic behind making this a rule or it is a banal pragma about hited to become a stronger force
☘️🍀
The UK is moving towards dissolution with nationalism rising in each member country as each wants full control of their own affairs. There is no clear unionist only territory. They're interwoven with people who make up the vast majority of the island. Maybe its time to throw away the symbols and songs of hate on both sides snd ignore the egging on from Scottish sectarian hate. Maybe its time for both sides to give up some hateful aspects of their own cultures to gain a whole lot more peace and prosperity. Together they'd be powerful like they are on the rugby field. It starts with forgiving and being proud of each others shared heritage. Scots settlers are part of Ireland and Irish history. I'm proud of that. Irish protestants north snd south achieved great things. It should be celebrated by all irish.
Irish Gaelic people settled and are part of Scotland's heritage. Fates are interwoven. Whatever happens i hope they make it a great place for their kids. One better then the past.
The Act of Union was in.1801