Nesting Birds & Jay Mischief | Bird Nerd Diaries

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  • Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
  • While the female blue jays are nesting, the males get up to some mischief, picking on each other, trying to steal each other's food, and one male seemingly tries to woe Feisty Jay's mate. You'll never guess who...
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Комментарии • 112

  • @marktullis1175
    @marktullis1175 5 лет назад +36

    Ma’am, your videos (and your narration) are like a breeze of fall air in the mountain air!

    • @thinkabout602
      @thinkabout602 5 лет назад +1

      spot on Mark

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Thank you kindly, Mark.

    • @melissaannemccrae1695
      @melissaannemccrae1695 4 года назад

      I agree with Mark!! I find it interesting that the jays in your region are preyed on by crows. In my area (I looooove corvids myself. first crows as a kid and always, and now the blue jays are making a presence, particularly one small family of 3 jays. But the jays hang out with the crows. They are all like the same group of birds, most of the time. Although the jays do separate with themselves, they are with the crows communally. They even hold a heavy presence during a funeral murder. I was shocked to hear you say that crows are considered predators of jays!!!

  • @BirdsInNatureGarden
    @BirdsInNatureGarden 5 лет назад +15

    Hello,such a wonderful footage. Have a blessed day friend ❤👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥰❤

  • @russelder9743
    @russelder9743 5 лет назад +15

    Lesley-------my wife and I just spent 2 weeks with our daughter and her husband and the twins....they still are enjoying your book. I wonder how my birds have made out without us feeding them....lol...they are like spoiled children.... we return home tomorrow ....Thanks for all your hard work.....GBY

  • @bgastein
    @bgastein 5 лет назад +12

    Thank you so much, Leslie. I love seeing and hearing about your birds. Your videos are so calming and informative. The music choices are always perfect.

  • @gatorgityergranny
    @gatorgityergranny 5 лет назад +2

    oh thank you Lesley for a very pleasant visit with your gang. always a happy addition to my day.

  • @dancingwithnature5303
    @dancingwithnature5303 5 лет назад +9

    Thank you, Lesley for your footage of the Jay's behavior that you explain so well. I've got a funny bunch of Stellar's Jays, and your observations are helping me to understand them. They're a whacky bunch that have decided to be my alarm clock!

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +2

      I'm a little envious that you get to watch Stellar's Jays but I imagine they are very similar to their close cousins, the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays here are my alarm clock too, lol

    • @dancingwithnature5303
      @dancingwithnature5303 5 лет назад

      @@LesleytheBirdNerd The Stellar's mimic other birds, and even do a fair cat meow. What about your Jays? Is it a corvid trait? I'm glad you have the grey Jays - I had never seen them before! Thank you again!

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      @@dancingwithnature5303 Yes the Blue jays are darn good mimics and can do cat meows, crow calls, hawk calls, and even odd human noises too. It's definitely a corvid thing, Crows can do it, Grey Jays do it, I believe magpies do as well. They are just so smart. You would love the Grey Jays, they are very different from most birds in that they actually seek people out. It's just in their DNA to be that way. I think it's because hundreds and hundreds of years ago before Canada was colonized by Europeans they probably stole food from Natives. Who knows maybe the natives even raised them as pets and trained them to find carcasses and stuff like that. They are very people-friendly

  • @nancyfahey7518
    @nancyfahey7518 5 лет назад +1

    Beautiful. One time my dad thought getting raw peanuts would be better. I had peanuts growing all over. Even in my flower pots. And before the bag was finished he was wondering why he had all these moths flying around his kitchen.
    My dad passed away in 2010 but I have this great photo of him and Whipper snapper having a full conversation. Good memories. 😊

  • @tripped42
    @tripped42 5 лет назад +7

    I wore my "birds make me happy" shirt to the rocky mountain cigar festival yesterday. Had a ton of people ask about the shirt, hope you dont mind but I told alot of people about you and your videos. Hugs from Colorado!

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      No way?! That's awesome, thank you so much I don't mind at all. I hope you had a good time at the festival. Hugs back to you.

  • @catyear75
    @catyear75 5 лет назад +12

    Hi Lesley ! Great footage ! Keep it coming and I'll keep watching! :-)

  • @lnghrnfn
    @lnghrnfn 5 лет назад +2

    Hi Lesley- I saw baby Robins bugging their parents today! (they are juveniles, really- but they still "beg!") Same story with my Blue Jays! Today there were at least 3-4 juveniles pestering their parents to feed them when they can def fend for themselves! Their loud squawking while getting a tidbit from their parents is hilarious & pitiful at the same time! (while they quiver their wings) ha Thanks for the cute vid!

  • @organtunes
    @organtunes 5 лет назад +6

    Awwwww, these birds are so precious! And now we have babies! Your videos are the BEST, Lesley. Thank you so much for making & sharing them. Can't wait for the next episode. Blessings to you! ♥

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +2

      Aww I'm so happy that you enjoy watching the lives of these birds. They are such characters. Take care and thanks for the kind and pleasant comment

  • @jillforsthoefelgrant3013
    @jillforsthoefelgrant3013 5 лет назад +1

    Perfect serenity and beauty. Thank you Lesley!!! ❤

  • @evalu3260
    @evalu3260 5 лет назад +6

    Sweet tweets. 🤗

  • @Alli_Sea
    @Alli_Sea 5 лет назад +11

    Hi Lesley,
    How I enjoy your diaries!
    Hoppy was determined to cram in 4 peanuts at once! LOL Poor Blue. He always has to boot one of the boys out of his hometown! Pepe Le Pew! Yup. He's a bad boy. Handsome Hermoso in the sunshine ☉
    Feisty Jay and his mate - that was a good catch by you noticing movement in the nest. Is this their first family?
    💕😚💕 Alli

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Aww, that's wonderful, I'm very happy you enjoy these videos.
      The jays are such awesome birds, interesting and fun. Yes, it is Feisty Jay's and his new mate's first family. Isn't that just adorable?! Thanks for the nice comment

  • @BirdVideoNature76pd
    @BirdVideoNature76pd 5 лет назад +2

    Congratulations your videos are spectacular, thanks for sharing I wish you a good day !!

  • @Fritaly
    @Fritaly 5 лет назад +16

    Yay Hermoso has a wife!

  • @dawnpiper5883
    @dawnpiper5883 5 лет назад +2

    I got up for work its ten past five in England I am sixty and my knees hurt like hell I saw you had posted and sat to watch while I had breakfast by the time it was over I felt much better you and them birds remind me to stop whining and get on with it l love your videos so much

    • @silvergreylion
      @silvergreylion 5 лет назад +1

      If your joints are getting calcium build-up, there's a lot you can do about it. Bones consist of both calcium and magnesium, and most people are getting too much calcium and very little magnesium. The body needs magnesium, so eats away at the bone structure, exacerbating the calcium overload.
      Taking magnesium and eating sulphur-rich food will (over time) straighten out that imbalance, as the sulphur will become sulphate and settle as calcium sulphate in the feces.
      Citrus fruits help dissolve the calcium build-up, and Vitamin K2, which is also a common deficiency, helps calcium go where it's supposed to. K2 is in fermented kale, or supplements.

  • @willmpet
    @willmpet 4 года назад

    I was very fortunate today, I've tried to feed many crows who live a mile from me (not as many as the magpies and the squirrels). I always carry unsalted peanuts on my daily walk -and I was able to feed a flock of crows-usually the squirrels get the nuts. I was so glad to see so many of the crows get fed, at least ten, probably more. It's so good to see them I can't believe how fast the squirrels and Magpies eat all the nuts I put out for them. It was so good to see the crows get the peanuts. I only see a few Blue Jays in Colorado as they fly through as they migrate. Gray Jays stay mostly in the mountains at the ski resorts.

  • @dannyflo5373
    @dannyflo5373 5 лет назад +1

    Bird's the word with Lesley the bird nerd! 🐦

  • @danstiver9135
    @danstiver9135 5 лет назад +3

    I was watching this with my cat and I swear he reacted when he heard some of the blue jay calls.

  • @chihuahuabulldog
    @chihuahuabulldog 5 лет назад

    So cute how the Crow kept trying to get all the peanuts in his bill. Oh how neat that the female Grey Jay came to you on your first meeting! I like her cute "cries" to be fed. LOL Pepe Le Pew! Ha Ha - Told off a Crow! So sweet how the two Blue Jays (Sorry, my memory is almost nonexistent today due to so many migraines lately) were checking out their nest, then later...enter a baby! I always enjoy getting to hear you talk to your little feathered friends. Thank you so much for sharing. I look forward to the next video being very exciting!

  • @virgilcaine3291
    @virgilcaine3291 5 лет назад +2

    Happy video

  • @SW13333
    @SW13333 5 лет назад +1

    Hi Lesley - Great video as always👍👍👍
    At 8:35 Blue looked at Feisty Jay thinking "Is he nutty or what - coming into my territory - what nerve"!
    Yes - that was Blue attempting to court Feisty Jay's mate, with the crazed look in his eyes, bowing, crest going every direction - haha!
    Maybe it's a way to make her stay away - unless he's being a Pepe le Pew - bad Blue!
    Sweet girl is so beautiful and sweet.
    I thought the brooding patch starts at or below the female Blue Jay's chest - a white area that can spread open (in a way) to keep the babies warm.
    Males have a white area but not as big as the female, nor can it spread or open larger.
    Hope that makes sense. - Stephanie

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Glad you enjoyed, Stephanie. Those birds are too comical.
      All the brood patches I've seen on birds is a featherless, pinkish patch of skin that forms on their abdomen during the breeding season. From my understanding, the surface of this patch is abundant in blood vessels which make it possible for the parent to transfer heat to the eggs and later chicks. The outer feathers normally keep this patch hidden, but because Sweet Girl fluffed out her feathers a little as she got ready to back to brooding the nestlings I got a glimpse of it.

  • @hacksaw4966
    @hacksaw4966 5 лет назад +1

    Love your vids and camera work! We have a seed and nectar feeder outside the window here in Texas. Pretty good day today. 2M & 2F Ruby Throat Hummers, Carolina wren, Blue jay, Cardinals, Sparrows, Mourning Dove, House Finch and Chickadees. And of course, battling that pesky squirell Keep up the great work!!

  • @eschwarz1003
    @eschwarz1003 5 лет назад +1

    amazing how you follow all these little characters and they trust you. Crow at 2:26 is funny trying to fit as many peanuts as corvidly possible in his/her beak

  • @mamaboocee
    @mamaboocee 3 года назад

    Funny how the crows are magnificent at carrying away 3 or more peanuts!

  • @alanmclemore3927
    @alanmclemore3927 5 лет назад

    I've never seen so many wild birds be so completely comfortable around anybody! What a talent - a real bird wisperer you are. I intended to skip through it, and ended up watching the whole thing all the way through. And the narrative explaining the birds and their interactions - a real treat. UPVOTED/RECOMMENDED :-D

  • @williamrenfrow7053
    @williamrenfrow7053 4 года назад

    well, I see Hatch made an cameo appearance at the end. thanks for these delightful moments, time out with the birds in the natural world, a soothing balm in troubling times.

  • @kristeetrisler4942
    @kristeetrisler4942 5 лет назад +1

    Watching this year's clutch of fledglings. Their markings are unbelievable!!!

  • @YabannPenceresi
    @YabannPenceresi 5 лет назад +1

    It's a really cool video. Very clear image. Thank you for sharing.

  • @dreacero9116
    @dreacero9116 5 лет назад +1

    Omg Blue is such a brat! That's a true rivalry that he and Feisty Jay have going there. They made me laugh! And then Hoppy trying to stick all those peanuts in her beak!!!
    Thanks so much for sharing!

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Haha. I'm glad you enjoyed those parts. The birds can be comical. I get a kick out of watching Hoppy and her family members stuff as many peanuts as they can in their beak, too. Silly birds.

  • @billyost1479
    @billyost1479 5 лет назад +1

    Sept. 5th, I had just woke up and could hear the Jays calling. It seemed a bit early and the sun hadn't even come up yet though it was getting light outside.
    After getting my coffee, feeding the cats and unlocking the house I went out on the front porch. It suddenly got quiet, like real quiet.
    However, my spidey senses were telling me that there be jays here.
    So, I grabbed my peanuts and sat in my chair. It didn't even take a minute and I could hear a mated pair of jays talking to each other in real low sounds. I think they might be letting me know they were there but didn't want the squirrels to know. The squirrels it seemed were awake yet. That suited me and the jays just fine.
    Once again as soon as I grabbed the peanut container (a small Folgers coffee container) the female once again flew over and tried to land on me. If I didn't have two cats by my side I would have had no problem with her on me. However, one of my cats is a female, a bird catcher... and very jealous of any animal that that I am with.
    So, I stood back a few steps, pointed down to my cats and I'm pretty sure she knew I was warning her that it wasn't safe. It really hurt me not being able to allow her to land on me... but this wasn't about me. It was about doing what was needed to be done, getting food to the babies I knew these jays had.
    All in all, within my first two or three minutes on my steps I had given nine blue jays peanuts and the day was just starting.

  • @Tt-jv9fl
    @Tt-jv9fl 5 лет назад

    Great video! I absolutely love my backyard birds!!

  • @IEnjoyCreatingVideos
    @IEnjoyCreatingVideos 5 лет назад

    Great footage Lesley! Thank you very much for sharing the video with us.👌👍😎JP

  • @karenmessinger9609
    @karenmessinger9609 5 лет назад +1

    Such quality videos. Thank you SO MUCH for sharing these beautiful birds with us. I absolutely love birds.
    PS- I always watch the commercials. It's a few extra pennies for peanuts.

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Aww Thank you, that is kind of to say. I'm so happy you enjoy watching these videos and by the way, that super kind of you to watch the ads. Thank you so much. I do the same for other content creators that I love :)

  • @greatsilentwatcher
    @greatsilentwatcher 5 лет назад +1

    Another cool video.

  • @mvpstj115
    @mvpstj115 5 лет назад

    Thanks for what you do. i started bird watching about 2 years ago not all the time occasionally .A friend at work is way in to it.He takes me out with him but im not on his level hes one of the top birders in Md.But all i want to see is bluejays so thats why your channel is one of the best.

  • @robertdavis4743
    @robertdavis4743 3 года назад

    It's 2021! Thank you.

  • @diandra016
    @diandra016 5 лет назад +2

    Love your videos. They always brighten my day. Thank you!!

  • @Antidragon-nl7by
    @Antidragon-nl7by 5 лет назад +3

    Ah, the miracle of life.

  • @mzimmerman1988
    @mzimmerman1988 5 лет назад +7

    dangit blue.... quit flirting with all the ladybirds!

  • @christinadelrio9011
    @christinadelrio9011 5 лет назад

    Wow ! I look at bird . Cute😗

  • @pabloaqui
    @pabloaqui 5 лет назад

    Thank You!

  • @Mega12AX7
    @Mega12AX7 5 лет назад +2

    A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the camera 📸🐦🐦📸🤓 Live Long and Prosper 🖖🖖🖖

  • @userused3199
    @userused3199 5 лет назад +1

    Great photography and narration. Your videos are so relaxing and informative. I put them on while I'm knitting.

  • @tamipie
    @tamipie 4 года назад

    This one is my favorite.

  • @jamesmonahan1819
    @jamesmonahan1819 5 лет назад

    This is so much fun.

  • @lynnstillwell4516
    @lynnstillwell4516 5 лет назад

    Love these diaries!

  • @annesweeney5552
    @annesweeney5552 5 лет назад +2

    Omgosh I LOVE THESE VIDEOS OF YOURS

  • @HensAndHounds
    @HensAndHounds 4 года назад +1

    I soooo want to live in your world!!!

  • @quercusrubra3633
    @quercusrubra3633 5 лет назад +1

    Thanks to these videos, your "bird buddies" are my "bird buddies" too! 🙂

  • @TK-zj8mk
    @TK-zj8mk 5 лет назад

    Another wonderful video to start off my Monday. Thank you.

  • @ballad2212
    @ballad2212 5 лет назад +1

    Birbs!!

  • @kiddywriter
    @kiddywriter 3 года назад

    Been feeding jays in my yard...accidentally left window open and one of them flew into the kitchen. Couldn’t find the way out and ended up going through a hole in the ceiling, which is in the process of being fixed, and led into the attic. After numerous attempts to get a hold of him without success, he finally perched on my hand and I was able to walk him over to the open attic window. I wonder if he would have allowed me to do this had he not recognized me from feeding him and his crew.🤔

  • @DavidCollin
    @DavidCollin 4 года назад

    Great video as usual.

  • @locksbog4270
    @locksbog4270 5 лет назад

    Always so enjoyable Nerd, thanks again!!! 👍👍👍😃✌️

  • @wyomingadventures
    @wyomingadventures 5 лет назад

    I enjoy your videos so much! Thank you Leslie. Your Jays and other birds are wonderful!💞🐦😊

  • @GroovyVintageLady
    @GroovyVintageLady 5 лет назад +1

    Lesley, is that forest nearby your house? If it's yes.. I envy you. New Foundland have to be like a heaven :) I come from Poland and I love the North :)

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад +1

      Pretty much. I'm lucky. Thank you for the nice comment, so nice to see someone from Poland commenting, wow. The internet sure has its perks.

  • @jenisecoronado5555
    @jenisecoronado5555 5 лет назад

    Thank you and God bless you for the wonderful way you showcase God's feathered creatures, Lesley! I loved seeing the little baby! Did I miss a video? Last I remember, I thought Hermoso was still looking for a mate??

  • @PTuffduty
    @PTuffduty 5 лет назад

    you already have more than 💯 positive comments, nothing I could say would add to that.
    one thing l might point out is that your very positive comments reflect the high esteem your viewers hold you in, not like some other websites which are mostly crude jokes or negatively clever.
    l don’t expect you’ll do this forever, and it does take a lot of effort to prepare such a quality video, but for as long as it lasts, l will look forward to the next video.
    you are remarkable.

  • @dwightjt
    @dwightjt 3 года назад

    If you get depressed
    This winter. Try alittle St.Johns wart
    From a vitamin store
    It worked for me
    Dwight

  • @cdeichhorn
    @cdeichhorn 5 лет назад +1

    Do you find that the birds prefer shelled or peeled peanuts? I feed primarily squirrels and would love to attract more blue jays. I’ve had jays dig up the shelled peanuts that the squirrels have buried in my yard. I just get to see that many Blue jays in my area.

  • @charliekezza
    @charliekezza 5 лет назад +1

    That crows belly is bigger than its beak

  • @pittschapelfarm2844
    @pittschapelfarm2844 5 лет назад +1

    "But Feisty" blue says "I am heaven scent, mon cher"

  • @steveadamo6693
    @steveadamo6693 5 лет назад

    What a sweet vid.

  • @TheHavrelandtExperiment
    @TheHavrelandtExperiment 5 лет назад +1

    I like me some bird nerd😁

  • @micahbirdlover8152
    @micahbirdlover8152 3 года назад

    what a cool 😎 video

  • @Antidragon-nl7by
    @Antidragon-nl7by 5 лет назад +1

    I don't mean to be a killjoy regarding the new arrivals, but what is the mortality rate among Blue Jay nestlings? (I know that among robins it's about 75%). It will be interesting to see how well Blue, FeistyJay, and Sweetgirl do as parents.

  • @konavader
    @konavader 5 лет назад +1

    Aloha Ms Lesley,
    Are the grey jays in your area similar to the American mocking jay, a grey jay about the same size. Ps. Watching two minutes of commercials is reserved for your channel only, seriously, I wish I could give you more, Mahalo Nui, have a great day.

  • @susanlocklear2468
    @susanlocklear2468 4 года назад +1

    Can I ask what kind of cat kibble it is that they will eat?? Love to watch your videos

  • @gsdfan8455
    @gsdfan8455 5 лет назад +1

    Thought you might be interested, I just started a book by Steve Burrows. It’s about a Detective Chief Inspector who is also a birder.

  • @marcelcanuck
    @marcelcanuck 5 лет назад

    i love the jays as well but iv'e noticed since iv'e been feeding them they stick around more and all the other birds that use to hang around my property and indulge in the feeders , chickadees , finches , nuthatches , even robins don't come around as much anymore ,
    i really miss those chickies and nuthatches ,
    hummmm , are the jays scaring all the other birds away ?

  • @mohanlal-jt9xw
    @mohanlal-jt9xw 5 лет назад

    Wow

  • @XOXO-mb2vh
    @XOXO-mb2vh 4 года назад

    How do you manage to get wild birds to perch on your hand(despite having food for them)? Was it just patience?

  • @flippinhippie63
    @flippinhippie63 4 года назад

    Hi Lesley, I've got a question for you. We have a robin who has made a nest in our gazebo and has 4 eggs. The gazebo is about 10 feet from our back door, so anytime we open the door, mama flies off and squaks at us. I've tried going to a part of the deck that is furthest away to see if she'll return while I am out there, and she so far has not.
    The nest is in a place where I could put up a barrier of cardboard or cloth on 2 sides where she would not be able to see us on the deck but it would not affect her movement in and out of the gazebo/ nest.
    I an super excited about all of this, and I just want to do what's best for them, but I also want to be able to use the yard without feeling like I'm jeopardizing the health of the babies.
    Any and all information you can provide is greatly appreciated, and thank you for all that you do!

  • @williamrenfrow7053
    @williamrenfrow7053 4 года назад

    hi Leslie...I'm curious why some Blue Jays can share territory, be in the same proximity, without it being a battle, whereas Peanut isn't around anymore. seems like there's plenty of room for two gray Jays. I miss Peanut. and Hatch, I know it's all Jays and that's fine, Lentil showed up, though. just sayin'.

  • @mohanlal-jt9xw
    @mohanlal-jt9xw 5 лет назад

    In love your vedio

  • @bbcanuck
    @bbcanuck 3 года назад

    Hi Lesley. Wonder if you can answer a question for me. I've had blue jays coming to my window since last summer (I leave peanuts in the eavestrough of my third floor apartment). I've even had them come inside to sit on the window sill. But they seem to have disappeared. Can I expect them to return as spring turns to summer?

  • @johnwisnes3824
    @johnwisnes3824 5 лет назад

    😃😃😃😃😃👍👍👍👍👍👍

  • @Rodzilla5332
    @Rodzilla5332 5 лет назад +1

    I need help identifying a bird song. Any suggestions? I have a recording.

  • @mikisi9694
    @mikisi9694 5 лет назад

    How can you tell them apart

  • @owenauer3406
    @owenauer3406 5 лет назад

    May I ask what camera you use?

  • @josearmando4627
    @josearmando4627 5 лет назад +2

    Cute

  • @octaviogutierrez5355
    @octaviogutierrez5355 5 лет назад +1

    I’m not first for third time.

    • @SW13333
      @SW13333 5 лет назад

      Octavio - You have to be fast and sneaky like a Blue Jay - can't let up. 🙂 - Stephanie

  • @birdsandbirdys
    @birdsandbirdys 5 лет назад +1

    Hey there Lesley like always love your videos and you have a great narrative voice so calm and crisp. I recently made a documentary on barred owls and it would mean the world to me if you could check it out and give me some feedback since your very experienced in this field and I could maybe learn a few tips, anyways keep up the great videos always love them!

    • @LesleytheBirdNerd
      @LesleytheBirdNerd  5 лет назад

      Hey, I just watched your lovely video. Thanks for sharing it. I left a comment on the video.

  • @jovannabelair5932
    @jovannabelair5932 4 года назад

    X

  • @o.osuq-madiq2008
    @o.osuq-madiq2008 5 лет назад

    8:18 f*** your couch!!!

  • @moncorp1
    @moncorp1 5 лет назад

    I detest blue jays. All I've ever seen those bullies do is take and kill robin babies from their nests. I have no use for blue jays.

    • @lynnesmith6827
      @lynnesmith6827 5 лет назад

      We started putting our egg shells out for the blue jays to eat (they need calcium) and now have no problem with them raiding other nests. However, the squirrels are another story! 😡