Another good way to encourage people in becoming better is letting use the heroes while upgrading. Many clans negate the possibility to that player that are maxing heroes to play in war or Cwl. This 1) slows down the upgrading process (no heros>no 3 stars > less loot) and 2) does'n't let you train. And the bad thing is that when you're finished with a th there's another one so you'll never have all 4 heroes ready to battle. This has to be extended also for friendly challenges
Heroes being unusable is really the biggest problem, I currently have at least 2 heroes upgrading at all times. And while the cost removal of troop training encouraged at least me to not use farm armies and try out normal strategies instead, how am I supposed to really learn them when I dont have my heroes which are a big part of attacks, if not essential for certain strategies (e.g. queenwalks, wardenwalks, warden ability, ...).
even more about this - you can't play friendly challenges when your army is training for regular attacks, because your heroes are down after the previous attack while the army is always ready from the friendly army. This is absurd!
Dude darian said that upgrading heroes and not being able to use them is a strategie and i totally agree with them,but they should add a magic item that ables you to use them for like an hour,for me what you said is not an excuse,because i've done it the hard way and free to play,after 3years of playing im now th14 with max heroes and now i can use them and practice as long as i want to,this is the reward of spending years maxing heroes and i think things should stay like that.
When I started playing the game, I always thought that getting a 3* is the most rewarding part of the game, whether I was just farming loot or taking war/cwl attacks which meant that by the time I’d be half way through a town hall I would already know at least 3-4+ strategies I could use to confidently 3* pretty much every single base. This isn’t the case for my clan mates though, they are exactly how you describe, they can be a th 14 with max heros + pets and I’ll watch them get a 1* against a th 13. I really don’t know how supercell can incite a change in skill but I’d love to see it happen
It's also annoying for me because all of my clanmates just neglect their heroes and can't attack properly, just placing down random troops in random places, and they're all under-leveled heroes which is silly.
1. The dark elixir hero/pet grind is just too much for casual players, and most of the advanced strategy requires a lot of dark elixir to work. For ground strategy like hybrid or smash attacks, you need at least super wallbreaker; Lalo itself needs minion, lavahound and haste spell lab upgrade. Therefore, Edrag and dragon are the only decent army to players who need dark elixir for pets and heroes. 2. Right now the star system doesn't encourage going for 3 star at all. Most of the opponent I encountered always charge from town hall side and get a low percentage 2 star, and I feel like SC should award those players who try to 3 star the base by adding more stars for 100% destruction. For casual players, it's just too easy to get a high percentage 2 star by spamming than planning an attack and taking risk for 3 star.
@@dgcu-t96 but you’d think that if you do hundreds of attacks with Edrags you’d actually learn over time how to be good with them. Throughout th 11-14 i would just edrag spam when any heros were down but I still learnt how to 3* most bases or at least very high 2* but these guys still don’t even know how to get more than 1*. But like you said with no incentive to chase 3 stars from SC they don’t have a reason to learn i guess
hi iTzu, i think most people who are "bad" don't really care that they are bad. they know they are bad. They just don't care. They are casual players who play for fun and do not take the game so seriously and do not have time to spend hours practicing a hard attack like blizzard lalo for example, or planning for a long time a plan for every base they attack. I'm one of those players. Sometimes I can fail and get 1 star vs a th13 (as a max th15) because i just went in with my default spam brainless army. I did not plan for the base and yes, it's upsetting at first when I see I am getting a 1 star vs a th13 but at the end of the day it's not the end of the world. I still enjoy watching your and other pro's videos and seeing crazy strategies and insane 3 star attacks and even though I know I will never get to that level, that's ok by me.
I believe changing the Star Bonus could solve the problem. Allowing player to get a certain amount of star bonuses daily instead of once daily. 2-3 Star bonuses a day would incentivize players to try for the 3 star, and reward players for using 3 star strategies.
One solution to the problem you discussed in the video might be by changing two things in the friendly challenges : 1. Let us have the ability to use heroes in friendly challenges. Most of the players are free-to-play or non-gemers, and they spend quite a significant part in upgrading heroes. That is one big reason why no one is able to practice different armies. Cuz if you want to improve your skills, you have to employ feedback. Meaning observing what went wrong in ur attack, rectifying that, and then trying again on same base to see if the rectification worked. This isn't possible in farming even if you farm with proper strategies. 2. You can attack ur own base, like in clan capital. That way, you will always have someone to practice on who is at the same townhall level as your army should be able to triple (tada, Surprise !! 😂). One more problem in having to learm while farming is that most people have always 4-6 defenses on upgrade(so they don't defend). So even if you are attacking the same th and getting triples in farming, that doesn't give u a right index if the army u are using will work if the base didn't had those defenses on upgrade.
People dont use new armies because they fear failure and have no determination ..the games fine and improves yearly .. morons just need to improve along with it
@@44shafil21 What judo sloth video? Someone posted this on reddit about possible suggestions ideas... And these two were there. I never said that I came up with these ideas, just that these could work.
the challenge system indeed is trash rn i feel like, i think being able to always attack yourself would be a huge deal. For new strats i have to switch accounts for every practice attack to put out a new challenge in the clanchat, and most people dont even have two accounts or a clanmember on the same TH that is always online
there's also the problem of resource inflation. Back when 3 star bonuses for trophy ranges were introduced they were good. But now when you can get more loot in 10 minutes of sneaky goblin farming then 2 3 star attacks in titans, there's no real incentive to do 3 star attacks. My suggestion would be to: 1) add some attack related quests every day/week similar to clash royale. You could tailor these quests to incentivise people to learn how to queenwalk at th9, warden walk at th12 etc. (the practice attacks you get when you go to a new th is a good step but we need more than that to make people learn to play better.) 2) either increase the amount of loot in daily star bonus or have a more exponential growth between trophy ranges. Right now a th15 can easily farm 2 million resources per base in champions 3 - masters 1 range while getting a decent star bonus just by getting 1 stars with sneaky goblins. having exponential growth of 3 star bonus would push people to learn starts. 3) have trophy resets for lower trophy ranges with seasonal rewards. At the moment legends league is only for th15's. that's probably less than 10% of the playerbase. Meanwhile in clash royale people only have to max 1 deck and can start trophy pushing and practicing more competitive playstyles. Having some sort of tiered system where the higher you climb the more rewards you get access to will certainly make people push more. Say for instance, you're a th12 and you push to Titans 1. If there was a seasonal reward of a builder / research potion / resources it would incentivise you to push all the way up there. Then once the season ends you go down to titans 3 and by pushing again you can get that reward again. Another major issue that others have pointed out is the gruelling hero upgrades. I think Supercell realized this and that's why both th14 and 15 have only 5 hero levels for each hero which is much more manageable then the 10-10-10-25 levels at th13. However that doesn't change the massive amount of time players spend without heroes. How do you make players improve when their heroes are upgrading? 1) rather than reducing upgrade times and costs every 6 months, just combine levels. Do we really need players to upgrade the Archer Queen and King for 30 levels at th9 with each upgrade being about 2 days? most casual players will take ages to achieve this. Change it so the max queen level for th9 is level 20 (same stats as level 30 queen) so that people spend less time having to farm resources. (you can have the net time stay the same or decrease it slightly I guess). 2) make heroes available during friendly challenges. Others have expanded on this. 3) reduce the cost of hammer of heroes. This honestly never made any sense to me. why does a single hero upgrade that takes less time and resources than a lab or building cost more with medals? 165 medaals for 8 days off and ~300k dark elixir is completely useless when I can do a 16+ day dark elixir troop/spell with only 120 medals. Same for warden and elixir troops/spells/buildings.
That last attack really hits home. So many of my clanmates are just mindlessly spamming e-dragons and get 60% 2 stars. When I try to advise them into using another strategy, they tell me: "I have no time to learn other strategies, and this was 2 stars, isn't that good enough?" 😓
I think you are right on point here. Edrag wall + blimp and you get that 50-70% 2star almost every attack. Then you try to "learn" how to play and you get couple one starts or even 0 starts, so you jump back to edrag and thats it. I would go different route and i know ppl are going to hate this, but,,,,same as heros, if you have barbarians upgrading in lab, you shouldnt be able to train them. I dont know if that is enough time to force ppl out of their comfort zone, and maybe majority of ppl just spam dragons for that couple week their edrags are upgrading, but...maybe one or two actually try some ground troops for that time period.
I do agree that the mechanics of the game is the biggest reason why there are very few players who can 3star a base on theyr lvl! Time its the biggest value we all have in our lives and the majority of the players who play the game like the ideea behind this game but they are not willing to spend hours in game daily cause there are better things to do in life! so they '' cheat'' and by that i mean they use sneaky goblins or the old good barch army witch have always helped to provide resources! Personaly i play the game from march 2013 and i still have a lot to learn ...that's what drive's me in the game, that's the reason i still play cause there are always new strategies, new ideas , new bases who can make surprises in cwl and so on... But like u said in the video, the majority of the players just play for farming and there is no skill needed in farming.. that must change in my opinion!
Hey Itzu, thanks for this video! I absolutely agree with you. My clan complaining all the time that we can't promote to higher league in CWL, when they are only using e-dragon. They can't be asked to learn different strategies yet complaining on their performance.
I have the same problem in the clan I am in. A good % use edrags and are happy with 2 stars and good loot. We don’t win many wars due to this approach to the game but no one wants to try new strategies.
completely agree with you. I notice thi problem in my clan: for those who know how to attack it is hard to get 3 stars vs th15 but for others that are continuing to attack in the same way it is really hard to get 3 star even with th14 or 13. I think that the problem is not easy to solve because the last group of people don't want to invest more time in the game or improve
One of my biggest issues with the game is the very limited options for practicing attacks. The practice maps are not helpful since you are forced to use the exact same army composition everytime. I've suggested they should let us customize our armies in the practice maps. The other option is friendly challenges. This has several hurdles: 1. you are limited to clanmates who are the same townhall as you. 2. you are limited to clanmates of the same townhall who are online at the same time as you. They could get around this by allowing us to attack our own bases. If you want to become a better attacker you have to be able to put in reps just like any game. In chess, players are able to play nonstop against computers or online against other players. In poker, you can play many more hands online than on live tables. With clash it's not like this. You get 2 attacks then you wait an hour to do another attack. The 2nd life on heroes was a great addition. The issue is still with training time. We need more options for practicing imo. I've always felt for years this was holding me back in this game.
After almost 10 years playing this game I rarely found a very good attacker raid my base and triple it.. No matter on normal raid or in war.. It's always spam attack.. it's really not matching having a max account with zero skill..
The goal of the casual players in the game is the race to get to the highest th level (th15) and not to 3 star bases. This is why so many bases are rushed. My clan, we convert players with rushed into max bases. They practice attacking each other, become more aware of defense building placements, and start scouting bases to trap locations so they can attack better, whether farming, classic war, or cwl. I have 3 almost maxed th15 bases to show lower levels how to build bases and attack strategies. We have no players in legends and only a few in Titans. We are consistent in cwl and getting better at classic war. The problem is that high-level players and competitive players aren't will or lack patients to teach the game to the casual players in the game. Therefore, farming and the highest th level become the goal where looting for resources is the focus. My clan is now in Crystal II after 8 months in Crystal III. Lastly, casual players don't have hours to spend playing. Maybe more content on lower level attack strategies could be produced because the majority of casual players have an interest in legend attacks, cwl and war strategies, or competitive clash competition.
Staying on a th level for a long time is a good way to learn. You keep attacking, you can refine your skills. When I was a clan leader, I noticed players who were maxed and just didnt want to move on to the next th were always the best attackers Also, friendly challenges are really good for practicing. They should make friendly challenege global for your own th, so you can find friendly challenges easier
I fully support this idea. Very interesting to see what the development team can come up with for ideas to help players learn to attack better. I agree, when I see someone throw all troops in a corner, close their eyes and hope for a good result. I feel sad watching that.
I 200% agree with Itzu, SC need to do something to improve the skill level of the players by some regular challenges with actual war type bases or something like more reward for three star.. Its painful and disheartening to see TH15 players failing on TH12&13.. in my champs 2 clan 🤧.
Maybe some community events where the pros build bases, and the community attacks them, maybe integrate them into the practice mode since it hasn't gotten an update. I think it can give the players an idea of what the pro scene looks like and make them learn and progress. I'm not against edrags or sneakies or witches, as the game is balanced with troops, but players who use these without too much skill involved, just spoils the game. I'm in champs 1, and seeing TH15s fail on a TH12 is miserable. I like base building, yet everytime my base gets spammed by some stupid strat, I don't even get to see if my base actually defends, NOT EVEN IN CWL.
I'VE BEEN PLAYING COC SINCE LAST 6 YEARS AND TRYING TO GET 3 STARS EVERY SINGLE TIME WHEATHER ITS NORMAL ATTACKS OR WAR ATTACKS . AS A RESULT I'VE IMMENSELY IMPROVED MY GAMEPLAY . I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT MOST PLAYERS DON'T DO THIS SO AS A RESULT THEY ARE CALLED NOOBS EVEN IF THEY'VE GOT GOOD BASES .
@iTzu , Thank you for addressing this problem. In my opinion , skill level issue is hugely prominent in CWL. Around Crystal 1- Master 3 (where only one clan promotes and 2 demote) you can notice a huge number of clans with ''bad'' players sitting on th15s without ever learning the game. Clans that come from lower leagues usually consist of th12s and 13s and this level unbalance makes it almost impossible to keep promoting.
The bonus reward doesnt help. As a th 15, i can 3star an inactive th14 with just heroes, siege machine and goblins without CC. so will just give another reason to use fast training attacks. Also you are forgetting some key details going from 1-15. 1) There is a 2 year gap from th1-15 and alot of loot needed. Doing 1 attack every 45 mins for 700k loot, is not gonna cut it when you can do 8-10 attacks back to back for 500-600k each attack with goblins. 2) 1 year (more is you dont farm your behind off) out of the 2 years is farming without heroes. So cant actually do proper attacks. 1-15 is all about loot. 3) Even if is goblins, or war attacks, if a dead base pops with 800k+ loot, people will hit it instead on hitting an active one risking failing. Dead bases are not practice. Only Solution allow heroes to be used in friendly challenges while upgrading and be able to attack your own bases when storages are full and no builders. Also a good idea would be to allow a player of lets say th 8, when someone th13 offers a challenge, the other guy to be able to use th 13 troops to take on the challenge instead of not being able to have some fun with challenges because you are a low lvl th.
It’s time to change the star system. 1 star for 50%, 1 star for 70%, 1 star for 90%, 1 star for 100%, 1 star for TH. Would mean the difference between fine attackers and great ones was made smaller.
The main issue is heroes being unusable when being upgraded. An idea could be e.g 15minutes off a hero upgrade if you 3 star at legends 10mins at champions etc. You could save this up then upgrade a hero and have a few hours or days off that hero. Giving a motive to attack with heroes. But still keeping the money making aspects (for supercell) of gemming heroes, buying magic items etc.
Yes that is true. There has to be solo modes where clashers can try things out without the reliance on clan mates for troops or friendlies. Problem is when you are not in a really active clans its also difficult to explore new strategies instead war attacks kind of become testing ground.
Also there are a shit tonne of players who use absurb combo in clan capital too. Like using jump spell on mountain golem/hoggs, or dropping graveyard spells after their entire army has been transported to the underworld. When opponents do so, it is hilarious. But when someone from your own clan does it, well it is not a good feeling. 😂
I agree that there should be more support for helping players to become better at the game. But before I get into suggestions on how to achieve this, I also feel the need to say that not every player will be interested in making great attacks all the time. Yes, I also want to motivate players more, and I want to remove barriers and give them better opportunities for improvement. But the game also has some relaxing, soothing and social aspects that I value very much, and don’t want to lose. (That’s why I don’t play Clash Royale: it is too one-on-one, aggressive and emotional.) (In other words: CoC is like a Hayao Miyazaki movie. If we can, we should make it better at that, but in a balanced way.) So, how to make this better? * As others have already said, make friendly challenges better / more available: + Make heroes available in friendly attacks, even while they are upgrading. + Make attacks on your own base possible. + Let people set up an attack counter on friendly challenges, so anyone can attack the challenge multiple times. Maybe up to 10 or 15 times? + Let us use any quick-train army in a friendly attack, with one-tap access to them on each attack, without overwriting the “friendly army” (that should remain the most advanced, experimental army slot). + Make filling the defending CC for friendly challenges as easy (and free) as changing the friendly army. + Extra bonus feature: let people make friendly challenges at 1 or 2 TH levels below their current level (with base layouts from extra slots just for that), and similarly, let them choose to reduce their troop levels and army size by the equivalent of up to two TH levels (for demonstrating attack strategies to lower level clan mates). (This may require “shadow” quick-train army slots to keep armies around for that.) And if you have to, balance all those new possibilities by making people take a break for some time when they have made lots of friendly attacks. So, maybe after 30 or 50 attacks, force them to wait for about 15 to 30 minutes before they can press the “Attack” button on a friendly challenge again. * Yes, maybe some additional loot for making a 3-star while farming would be great. Also, for war attacks, a 3-star could give some additional bonus loot on winning the war. Not too much though … maybe 30% or 40% more? * Support clan families better. Let’s face it, to succeed in CWLs and wars, many clans only put a few TH levels in their lineups. So, there are clans with only TH13 to TH15 bases (or even TH14 to TH15, or just TH15s), clans with mostly TH10 to TH14, clans with mostly TH7 to TH10, and so on. If players want to help each other learn the game, then it should be much easier to bring several clans together, each with players at different TH level tiers. It should be possible to donate troops between these clans, to make friendly challenges across clans, to watch each other’s wars and CWLs, to chat with each other, and to move accounts between these clans without penalties (like, keeping the rank in the original clan, or keeping donation counts). So, basically, make it possible to put up to, say, 5 clans in a clan family, and have a shared chat between them where donations and FCs work, and let them watch each others wars, and let people freely move between clans too. All other rules stay the same (like, you have to be in a war to donate to the war CCs, or you have to be elder to watch CWL wars, except when you are in that CWL, etc.) I believe all this makes it possible to help each other get better in a much better way. And people can still opt out when they want to, and just play along a bit.
Upgrading time of the heroes is the biggest issue to practice or trying out strategies. I really hope Supercell make the heroes available when upgrading like if the current upgraded heroes is lvl 80 if we can use the heroes half the levels i.,e 40 or smth ths game will be lot interesting for who cant spend big.
I'm a competitive player. And th9 I feel is were u actually start learning the basics to all strategies going forward. It's where u start learning ur qw and ur Sui not to mention backend Lalo hogs even zap strategies also troop AI and how many tiles the spells cross . I recommend always using a war strategy to raid its good practiced friendly challenges
I have an idea but I don't know how much feasible it is. The idea is that "training mode redesign " Here me out! Every townhall must be provided with 4 attacks, eg. For th12 or above:1. Smash, 2. Dragon spam, 3. Lalo 4. Hybrid Completing the 4 attacks is mandatory for every player after reaching newer townhall. Only then they can participate in war/cwl(this will also reduce upgrading th in the middle of cwl). Also instead of giving the same base to practice, there should be puzzle to solve. Different segments of an attack should be seperatly solved(like queen charge/bliz at the beginning, sui in the middle, main troops in the end) then all combined once.
Watch how if they add this (rewards on anything for three starring in multiplayer) those same players that are attacking with sneaky or barch ( absolutely no problem attacking with those btw) going to be like: ohhhh now I am forced to learn and practice an Strategy for the next 2 months to be able to three star as many as my other friend who is getting so many three stars and boosted rewards on alot of things And then BOOM back to where u started...skill gap will still be the same cuz those who already 3 star more will be always infront in upgrades than others who don't... People need to start liking the game however they wanna like the game that's my opinion and if u like to just loot and get buildings upgraded and be a shit attacker (sorry for my language) then it Is what it is you are then just trash cuz u CHOSE to be trash (sorry for my language again) Right now the state of coc we are in is probably the best state.. I remember yall wanted a huge skill gap dont you guys remember drag clone spam army when my little 5 year old brother could triple a max th14? Exactly, so if u want to be good, get time in, get triples, learn 2 new strategies, practice it daily and move to legends because that's where u get tested in 30 second... The skill gap in my opinion is at its best point. So many people want to actually learn and so many people don't care about learning, why should it be a reward to force them now to play when in reality they might not even have time to. Your idea itzu is not bad at all, but it won't change the people who don't ever wanted to learn new strategies and keep on being old school or just play the game for loot and upgrades, it will even make them more angry cuz other pros will even make the skill gap even bigger
The main roadblock in COC improvement is the time period when heroes are upgrading. If even one of your heroes are down, you lose out on a huge part of attacking. At the lower TH levels, there are often 2-3 month long periods between having and not having heroes (assuming optimal hero upgrades). Not only does this ruin the consistency required to get better, but this gets very demotivating for the casual player base. I really like the direction SC is taking with having less hero levels and more pet levels. Upgrading a pet is less committal and doesn’t affect attacking as much as upgrading a hero. Reaching that level is very difficult and I hope someone can think of a solution that I can’t think of right now.
Your completely right itzu I am a leader of a clan and i am the only one who actually tries to learn the game I use lalo and my clan mates are not practiced enough.. I wish everyone had the same motivation as me my entire clan only gets high or low percentage two stars
There's one key thing you're forgetting itzu, there are multiple types of clash players. Some have no desire to improve their strategic ability and just enjoy farming and upgrading. That last edrag user is a classic! No plan, just spam. Personally, and I think SC realized this years ago, when I got to th8 and 9 I wanted to get better. So I turned to YT. Learned gowipe and gowiwi. Joined a Clash with Ash clan so I could war with people who cared about getting 3* and get tips. Then we joined some leagues like CWL, NDL, etc and I honed my skills hanging at maxed th11 till th14 came out. Our alliance has a bunch of extra accounts at various th lvls and I was given 2 more to war and farm with. I say all that to show an example of a type of player. But I had to take initiative. The problem I'm facing is I've never been a maxed th cause I'd stay too long as a max th12 or whatever to get better at it. While upgrading, you're never as good as you'll be when maxed, but when you max, most upgrade. So staying at th13 to hone your skills when there is th15 now is a feels bad. So I've taken the last year off to upgrade my main to max, (2 lvls to go on owl and I'm upgrading to th15, first time skipping majority of walls). Then I can practice more. You said it best, th14 was more forgiving... aka, each th lvl has a different skill set or army type that does well. But by not staying at th14 I'm not experiencing and practicing all the queen charge strats and lalo strats. I'm just using smash attacks and dragon spam to get by, with like a 60% 3* rate 🤮 untill I'm maxed th15. So we need incentives to stay at a th lvl to get better.. but that doesn't make SC money. So we'll never have a way to close the skill gap organically imo.
One massive problem I experience when trying new strategies is that I either have to go no heroes or I have to sacrifice using the strategies properly then I lose a lot of time while maxing because at least one if my heroes are usually down
I disagree that having casuals in the game is a real problem. Different people play CoC for various reasons; not all of them prioritize excellence. The question should not be how to force players to try hard. It should be, is it even a problem to have casuals and pros in the same game? I don't see that it is. If you think it is, only then is there a need to change the game, and the change does not necessarily need to be inducing casuals to act more like pros. (Which mostly won't work anyway. To the degree that you enforce it harshly, they'll quit.) The change might be more like just keeping them away from each other. This is of course what the game already does to a very large degree.
its awesome how iTzu teaches people who play and people who dont play that clash of clans is a top tire game to play and also how he teaches us clash of clans players or not demonstrate how the game flows
That's a good point X2 loot for a 3 star, because farming using sneaky goblin is much more worth it right now rather than planning an attack for 3 star in multiplayer battles and easier. Hope in the next update they do change this style for farming
I think you make a valid observation, and I do see a few players like that in my clan (long term Champs 3). They usually get to play normal wars and have to sit out CWL. If they don't use a meta army and show that they have a basic understanding of the steps needed for the strategy to work, they get benched. Unfortunately they are often very reluctant to try and learn a strategy because it takes a lot of time. I sometimes spend hours posting FCs and giving feedback to tune them into a strat, but we don't have the time to do that frequently. Conclusion: The game has a basic practice mode... It probably needs expanding. Also, why have we still not got TH14 (let alone TH15) training stages? At TH15 there is no dominant strategy. We always had base specific strats but it's more necessary than ever at TH15. That means you don't just need to learn 1 complex strategy, you need to learn several. With each TH level we get new buildings. The game has become too complex. I have to consider too many parameters. Its like juggling with 3, then 4, the 5 balls. There is a limit to how many balls someone can juggle before they drop them. Conclusion: Stop adding different defences. To head off people saying the game will stagnate... How about limiting the number of defences you can use for your base? For Example: Allow us 3 of the following types of buildings in our bases: Infernos, Eagle, Scatters, Spell Towers, Monolith, but not all at the same time. Most of my clan mates pick a strategy and stick with it, no matter the base. I think I'm the only one who switches armies for troop events. The rewards are not enough insentive. Most of my clan mates scoff when I say I use Hybrid for a few days for a Hog event, for example. Conclusion: They need to offer better rewards/insentives to play different strategies. I really like your suggestion that destruction is linked to training time. Also, the use of heroes while they upgrade sounds good.
Here's an example what I witnessed in the last few days in the game. I wanted to drop out of legends cuz I wanted to goof around with random strategies and trying that in legends with limited attacks isn't possible. So I set up the progress base as active in legends, deleted the defending cc troops, and waited. What I found interesting was that my progress base is defending better than the box base that I have. And I am not kidding, I legit got more single stars yesterday on my progress base(4) than on my original layout that I find good(2). And they had completely maxed heroes too. So yeah I definitely agree with you Itzu that in pursuit of maxing heroes, people aren't actually learning attacks, or more like not getting to learn attacks. Also it has been 3rd day since I wanted to drop out, and finally my trophies came below 4900 a few hours ago. So that's an issue to if u want to address (there should be a direct option to drop out of legends and trophy get reset to 4900 or 5000).
I completely agree with you iTzu. In my clan there's a th15 player who could not three star another th15 with the base being a literal progression base. He played all 13 EQ-s on the th for example
I'm one of those players you describe. I've been playing daily for 6 years, th15 is just too hard. I'm struggling to find a strategy that's easy for me to do, being dyslexic its tricky for me to switch spells, troops quickly, the defenses speed is just too quick. There should be more player adjustments, pointer speed, font change , that would help. Also the game consistence, every time I use the blimp the drop is not the same. This is a great post, thx itzu.
It is hard to be a th 12 in cwl, when u are facing th 13 and 14. But i find a strategy that works very good, so now i avg 70% 2 star. And sometimes a 3 star if my blizzard takes good value.
I have th 13 that attacks my th15 mirror in cwl to 2*. it's relatively easy with edrags and blimp so my avrege stars that I take home is ~4.9* I don't understand why th 12-14 don't take guaranteed 2* at stronger enemies. My main army is sup bowl.
I think most player not using war army in multiplayer. Main reason is long hero upgrades. Due to hero upgrades , we don't use pro tutorial untill we don't gem which is not convenient. If there is way to use hero while using upgrade, it encourages people to play with full power and try different strategies. What u think about this.🤔
this isnt a problem if thats what they choose to do they stay noobs while the people that actually injoyed playing the game with creativity succeed as pros
Agree wholeheartedly!! I have always used 3 star strats for farming to help for wars, global and cwl. Not sure of solution. Maybe a practice mode where you can use your own friendly army instead of 1 to practice.
i agree with itzu so much on this. i have fun playing legit attack strats that work and give you the rewarding 3 star against a maxed out th with cc, so while you progress you get better so u are never behind in skill level.
one really big improvement in this regard was that they removed costs from troops, yet troops training time taking a good bit longer relative to barch, goblins, etc doesn't really incentivise players to go for say "zap titan smash" barch is way more accessable and quicker to train and you can use half and army in multiple attacks instead of one whole army and get your loot. unfortunately loot is a really important and hard to grind of a mechanic that people would absolutely rather stay in low low leagues such as gold and silver to get easier loot than to get to champions, titan, legends. everybody feels that higher trophies = less loot + harder to attack bases, so why would they try to learn strategies in higher leagues when legends league loot can be lower than even gold league's loot...
As a clan leader i can talk from my experiences,it is really important for any player to be in a good clan,and having some king of competition between your clanmates,i really struggled to encourage my clanmates to upgrade heroes and learn 3stars strategies,and with time and encouraging them,alhamdollilah we reached our goal and our clan have max heroes and diversed attacks and consistant 3 stars,i dont think the problem is about the game itself but i think the problem is about players not having a competetive envirement and guidance from co leaders and leaders.(any leader that does not understand these things and not putting efforts to improve himself,cannot improve the clan)
In my eyes these kinds of vidoes are by far you're best. I love hearing your thoughts on the meta and state of the game. I hope Supercell is listening in, cause I don't think there's anyone out there who's better at understanding what is best for this game. Itzu GOAT
I Think the best way is to make the loot by percentage. If you got 50% you get 50%of the loot available. And palyer should be able to use heroes while they're upgrading.
I agree all the points Itzu sir....but with global chat dead and tougher townhalls..i feel its perfectly enjoyable at the moment. im sure 60-70% players only play for fun and chat and enjoy the normal wars etc. players will still not care for 3starring ..will keep using sneakies.
Part of the problem is that if you were a higher level, Townhall, it kind of forces you into legends league by default. That being said, only getting eight attacks per day isnt exactly what I would call enough practice. They could update the practice section of the game so you could try to allow new players to learn the more up-to-date attack strategies. Also, a lot of people don’t seem to utilize the friendly challenge as a form of practice on a consistent basis either.
Legend League is (un)fortunately only for players who know how to play the game and want to fight for a good place at the end of the season. However, I totally disagree that "8 attacks is not enough" or "not enough practice". Most people have a life and/or a time-consuming work, so they don't do much more attacks. I personally (when I entered legends) I started playing the game in a better way, as I learned the current meta and this also helps a bit on clan wars. Let's hope SC finds a way to solve a problem with those high town hall players with no skills though.
I agree itzu I have 3 accounts, 2 th15 and a th13 all using qc hybrid. I have used this strategy since th11 on all accounts. I am no good with others strategys as i don't risk using them in legend or clan war. So I don't get to practice them enough to get good at them. Many of my clan mates 1 star in war because they just loot as much as possible so don't try to 3 star, then they don't know how to for wars. When looting you can skip bases to find an easier one or one with hero's down or upgrading 5 buildings. All making the attacks a complete different challenge. Most players log on and off a few times a day aswell so don't have time to keep trying different strategies out or perfecting 1.
I have the same experience, earlier at th13 I used to do normal attacks in the form of farming, which degraded my attacking skills, then changed my strat and started using only proper army to even farm, and the result was rewarding, I started hitting more 3 stars, yes I fail now as well to get 3 stars, but atleast I have learnt how to save attacks which earlier I couldn't and scored 0-1 star because I panicked a lot if most troops died. Also since the troops cost is removed, SC should encourage players to use different army strats in synergy. Also minimum hero level, building level barrier should be implemented to upgrade because it is also the cause of mismatches, for ex- th15 with level 20-30 king/queen, they literally can't contribute anything
Due to the low level clans I was in, I never felt the push to play at a higher skill level for TH1-12. I found a great clan at TH13, but my heroes spend so much time upgrading that I can't really practice until I'm almost maxed for the town hall. Once I got TH13 strategies figured out, I was ready to go to TH14. I'm finally figuring out TH14 attack strategies, but I'm ready for TH15. Having heroes and pets down for so long prevents full development of attack strategies. That is one of the problems with the average player base. We don't gem or book heroes to max within the first week of the update
My problems with farming,( and I do bring full armies at legends level) is I rarely get the base I would use my army for. Its very very frustrating. Also, I am in a close small clan that has few th15 plus its international thus getting challenges is rare. Watching you 3 star stuff is helpful, but the insight on how to approach a base on your own is the hardest leap. Maybe have a series where you coach an average attacker on strategies, and you can correct in real time how less polished attackers think.
The game has a couple of possible focuses. Keeping everything upgrading and optimizing the loot is the most interesting for me. So sneaky goblins all the way. My problem with attacks is situational awareness. Keeping track of a queen charge vs all the other troops. Focus a little too much on one and the other drops and the attack is dead. Each th level has become a little more difficult, but I managed to maintain consistent two stars. Th 15 hit hard that even these strategies started to fail and I honestly was winding down on the game and considered leaving it. It was only the recent blizzard attack that renewed my interest and allowed some chance at the three star. You are right that there needs to be better training in techniques. Allowing you to attack your own base, set your cc troops for friendly bases, picking apart bases to highlight their strengths and how various mainstream attacks can best exploit their weaknesses. I've seen so many high level players three star but I don't know why they chose to do what they did to get the three star so I'm left with nothing I can apply to my own attacks. Its a frustration and I don't know what supercell can do to fix it, but there will probably be a reduction in players if it keeps going the way it has.
I am one of the casuals who can easily fail on a th level under me. It all comes down to planning for me at least. I just don´t spend enough time doing that, and the biggest issue is not having a plan b in case something goes wrong. And I also believe that a lot of players are way too reliant on one strategy, instead of having the ability to mix things up depending on the base.
You should not need to plan for a long time. U only really need 30seconds like a farm raid. that’s the problem things are so complex u need to screen shot and drawl a plan over a picture. This puts to much pressure on a single attack. Most players who are new to the game or free to play don’t get in voice chats to communicate their attacks. These pro players who are really good set a standard to high for casual players
well, most of my clanmates 3 star th15 bases by accident, without much control half way through the attack. What is worse, even though they upgraded to th15, they struggle with th14's in wars, which is absurd because attacking a lower town hall level should be an almost free 3 star (but they fail more often than succeed).
For most people it’s too much time and work to practice actual war strategies along with everything else going on with the game. Farming, Builder Base, regular wars, CWL, upgrading heros/pets, raid weekend, donating troops, multiple accounts, Clan games, special events and challenges, etc… A lot of people also don’t have the time or motivation to go outside the game to find and learn new strategies
I see this a lot in clans I’ve been in. People usually try copy attacks that they see in wars but never take the time to learn different attacks for different bases. I usually learn multiple ways of attacking from RUclips videos or even watching livestreams. The time investment to actually improve is way to big for casual players, the game needs to add more of those practice mode attacks with actually army comps people use.
I was thinking of a "quest system". Let's say, you have to pay 10k dark elixir, or whatever, for a "quest" that requires you to earn 5 3-stars out of 8 attacks, or something like that, and the reward could be a builder potion. Or something like this. It would be cool for sure, and players could stick to their phones for longer if they want, for some extra progress. Also, not being able to use heroes while attacking is just horrible, you basically can't 3 star if you have 2 heroes missing, or warden. (ok maybe STARS could). This is definietly a problem. Sneaky farming can be fun, but going for 3-stars is a way better scenario.
Getting 3 stars against the same town hall level has gotten a lot easier now because of the amount of troops, spells and clan castle troops you’re able to carry to battle. Defense used to be a thing and it was beautiful. Now, they deliberately weakened the same troop on defense- ie super minion, ice gollum- you know who they’re trying to appease. Getting 3 stars should be a rarity and I agree, should be rewarded with extra loot when achieved. I’m sure I’m not the only one who deliberately lose to lower my trophies to avoid getting 3 starred from town halls higher than me.
True. As th14 I was the only player in my clan to ever get a 3 star in war vs 14. Now 15, I alone have 3 starred. Most th15 can’t beat 13s. Mentality is it’s enough to do a war attack, result doesn’t matter at all.
As a mobile gaming industry worker, I get your point but encouraging people for three stars wouldn't be enough for my experience. People would still spam their attack and move on. Most of the user base are casual players, they aren't really competitive and that's the way it should be. But it still can be improved. Some part of the problem is that there's no room for strategy until you're in later stages. Untill TH 11-12 most of the people just zaps the air defences and release the dragons. And they get 2 stars minimum. This is so easy, why would anyone bother with any other strategy? People see that their defences are ruined and their loot is stolen. So, they just copy it and use it against others. It goes on like this... I'm sure Supercell is aware of it but they wouldn't risk a change because if you make the game harder in the earlier stages, that would hurt the player retention. It means users would uninstall the game because it is hard. So they need to make the earlier part easy in order to hook the casual players and they make the later part hard in order to satisfy the competitive players. It's just a win some-lose some situtation.
Bottom line of the story we need a different trophy system for lower townhall. Because u can get lot of loot in lower leagues and dead bases are easier to three star. They can make it so that the resource multiplier doesn't work on dead bases but still how do u expect players to triple if they are grinding their hero lvls. What about trophy dumping? There are some leagues where the loot is maximum so sneaky gob farmers maintain their trophies in that specific trophy niche. A loot multiplier will make so that players triple a base grab the loot with multiplier and then drop back to same league. If they want to solve all the problems they have to change the entire trophy system
It’s really ez to understand playing from th1-th10. Since when I maxed out th10 and moved to th11, I felt demotivated cuz I don’t know how to atk properly. Dragons were the troop I mostly used and so I started watching coc atk vids in hopes of me improving. It’s probably more than 10months and I started adapting to th11 and above. I learned sm on watching iTzu. The first strat I learn was the golem witch, though I played a lot of edrags but didn’t get how to do it. Then I learned abt yeti and immediately made it to lvl 3 some months ago. Then just last time super drags piqued my interest and I watched past vids of iTzu abt it and I learned it so fast (rage 9freeze). But here comes my favourite, just a couple of days ago I began lvling up my archers for the super arch blimp strat (this is the most fascinating atk strat of iTzu for me). Then I looked upon my old clan and saw my former leader using super archers yeti. So just a week ago I made my first super arch blimp atk with super archers yeti as main army and damn I enjoyed it sm 99% tho cuz my queen is upgrading (also lvl1 invis but it sure worked well). I started upgrading heroes recently cuz I realized I needed it more than upgrading my rushed defenses. I was able to 2 star a very strong th13 on war with just king and rc available which I think is the best strat for me. I’m currently preparing to learn how to queen walk or warden walk😊
Practice time is an issue. The best players have multiple accounts and can move between them without delay in attacking. More attacks makes a better player (also can donate to themselves). Most can only afford one account, but will not be able to attack enough to get good
So, the thing about using strats instead of farm. There are quite some points to that - mismatches in war and cwl are ruining it since the player is not learning how to play better and how to 3 start similar th, it teaches him to play agains missmatch for 2 start and therefore players start farming to get to higher TH so they will have the oportunity to learn how to 3 star their similart; Upgrade costs - supercell don't want players to upgrade since in this case they will lose players because they will get bored so they make that the higher TH the more you have to farm to upgrade so the higher TH lvl the more people will tend to farm and not train their skill since not upgrading the village leaves you behind other players; (From Alex Helix Pozzobon comment) Restrictions like not using Heroes while upgrading - not having heroes in an attack is handicaping the strat and 99% ot the time if you are an average/good player it will result in a 2 stars, at high TH as lvl 15 even pro-player have low chances to 3 star with all heroes down. And so on the list continues - as for me supercell won't give players oportunity to get better since in this way they will probably lose a chunk of players so finding an optimal answer is hard and require a lot of though. Also training troops require time that some people don't really have so they chose 3-5 attacks with sneakies instead of 2 strat attacks, maybe Buidel Base 2.0 will improve the gameplay since BH don't have training time but anyway it's not fixing everything else, sadly.
Completely true I'm th9 legend have been for over three years ...sick of having to attack lame th15 everyday and then get whaled by a th10 over 2000 trophy below me ,matching is terrible,clouds in champion and titan is awful when events run or clan games ,do something about it supercell,your game is broken and dying
I feel like a fix for this would that for every 3 star (but only Same or Higher town hall levels), you get a Gold medal that can accumulate over time, and can be used to buy books or something similar. that way, for every 100 3 stars, a Player can buy a book, which would be a good balance IMO
I think the problem with why players cant successfully 3 stars is because they are not just enough into the game, only for maxing or attacking in wars. In my clan, I am the only one with more consistent 3 stars than my lower clan members and that's because they don't want to try new strategies. The TH13 uses mass witches and fails every time. Even if I show them videos on how to attack for each of their levels, they are just not into the game to become better, just to play it.
I agree with you, it is even more noticable in raid weekens I have like 10 player in my clan that are at th 15 and still barley win districts with stupid armies They literally put all barch army in one go and expect it to do majic While i for example try my beet to get 2 attacks a district Using combinations of stratigies Every th i get to I try to learn multiple attacks Like i am always trying to practise Blizzard lalo, 5 icey g, hybrid, yetti blimb, queen charges I am surprised till now you find people putting dragon, and raging them with no effort of planing Just put dragons , and hope it will work
Upgrading is a huge problem, it will take years and years to become a non-rushed TH15 if you start right now. Also, having a skill gap in the game makes the game fun. Spam at TH14 was a joke, they just gave anyone a 3 star with no skill. There needs to be a skill gap but all players need to be able to reach TH15 quickly so they aren’t worried about farming nonstop
I will be straightforward, the only reason i dont train normal strategies is because you just cant do them without heroes and i dont want to hinder my progress by MONTHS just because i want to get better at attacking. To be honest the only way, as of the moment, there is to get better is to max a certain townhall and stay there, but thats completely counterintuitive for someone who has 1 or 2 accounts
I believe there is obviously a massive difference between how game was & is now, especially with upgrading times & costs. Most tend to try & rush to upgrade to next town hall level, whether rushed bases for upgrades or rushed as in farming for resources & not caring about trophies or star's. There should be a big difference between 99% & 100% rewards & for example 99% 1 star to a 50% 2 star, nevermind a 3 star. Some people eople have lost the importance of funneling, use of different troops & spells... timing, placement etc... which then shows in war performance. Also a donating record or rewards for helping fill war clan castles would encourage teamwork within clan.
I guess changing the "bonus star rewards" my suggestion is still keeping the 5 stars rewards but by 3 staring bases, special stars will be added into the prize pools. For example you did 3 attacks of 2 2-stars and 1 1-star, you still gain the 5 stars bonus rewards, but if you smashed 3 bases you will have a total of 9 stars (4 bonus stars) and those 4 bonus stars will give you even more bonus rewards. My english is bad i hope nobody getting confused lol
been saying this for years, my friends at school play clash casually and always ask to join my clan for troops and to do wars. (ive been playing since October 21st 2012) and I always let them in and they just get smashed in cwl and wars. and it's because they just farm or do their clan games or raid weekend hits. They struggle with mirrors tremendously and can only 3 stars down a th lvl maybe 20% of the time. all my friends above th 11 I get on qc hybrid and tell them to just play that. but it doesn't work because they can't farm as fast and its not rewarding to fail with an 82% on every multiplayer attack and get half the look you could have gotten if you spammed sneaky goblins.
Maybe do something like the current special attacks that give a reward. Except instead of 5 troops, the challenge is to use 25 loons - for a month. (so essentially a Lalo attack with a bit of personalization). Next month a 9 yetis. Next month 14 hogs and 14 miners. If the bonus reward is set up like the recent Xmas special where they need 15 stars, it is an incentive to try new attacks. RUclipsrs can help a little with tutorials but because this is in the regular attacks, tutorials will help, but not won't be formulaic.
My thoughts on this are.... I think CWL system is the main problem of this. As a free to play player everyone wants those cwl medals and they just rushed to highest Town hall possible to have max troops and attack lower level base. Im in th 14 rn but in last cwl most of the opps bases was rushed th15. I myself rushed to th14 because of this and i really hate to upgrade those heros. Because of that i never be able to learn a strategy cuz heros are constantly upgrading.
Hey Clash of Clans, allow us to play with kings and attack them during the upgrade. They are important. You should do that. Download an update on that, like if you agree with my comment
I feel like everybody matches th15's though. My TH9, TH10, and TH11 clans also match TH15's, It's just become normal. Also when you talk about dip fails, the most insane one I have witnessed personally was a TH2 defending against a TH7, the TH7 player didn't even get 1 star. He just hog spammed and didn't even bring the king so the defending CC killed every single one of those hogs making some good bacon.
We actually exploited the 50 v 50 matchmaking by having 2 rushed TH14 at the top (with high level troops and heroes but under leveled defenses), the rest are normal bases, then at the bottom we have very low TH like 4s and 5s. We reached 35 game winning streak spanning almost 3 months (we also play CWL that's why there are days we can't go to war). It all went down when we faced a lineup of 5 TH 15's. Final score was 150 - 145. They also used the same strategy as ours though and I guess it was only a matter of time until some clan would eventually defeat us.
Strategy and going for 3 stars is way more satisfying than constant farming and upgrading. A good was to make players more motivated to learn to play could be to have some kind of achievement system for each th level like a record of how many times you 3 starred in each town hall before you upgraded
a good way to encourage people in becoming more skilled would be to add some trophies on their profile counting their number of three stars in multiplayer and cwl so it would be a criteria for clans recruitment
i think a big part of this player skil decay starts after th11 and the introduction of low skill safe attacks like edrag spamming or farm attacks like sneaky goblins
Tbh, I don't see many attacks on any of my accounts that are barch or sneaky goblins, as army's are free now. But attacks without hero's are very common, as are just dump troops in a corner and pray. I think the downtime of hero's is why you can't actually learn proper strategy. And even though I upgraded my hero's around the clock, the time I could actually use them max level before everything else was ready for the next TH level was rather short. So maybe there lies an answer, shorter hero upgrade times compared to building defenses? So that there effectively is more hero play time. Maybe every three star cuts down an X amount of time of the hero upgrades?
I've been playing this game for almost 8 years, and th15 is the FIRST time i'm actually trying to learn the game on legends league, mostly after finding your channel (before i always just watched some replays and tried to copy mindlessly, failing a lot). Explaining your though process has helped me a lot. Maybe a 3 stars could reset your troops and heroes because they went to a feast after crushing their enemies.
Maybe there's some magic item reward for a certain number of three star attacks depending on the league, which could also encourage players to not only three star, but also three star harder bases. There is the bonus loot based on the league, but that in my experience is easily compensated for by more easily obtainable loot in lower trophy ranges.
I agree with you. I think we get stuck on one army to attack with hoping we learn to master at least one strategy. But I still only 3 star once in awhile and I have 5 accounts with 4 at TH15. I spend a lot of time daily yet have not come close to mastering this game.
Sadly it's the truth some th15s indeed fail to trip th13s 12s . but I 100%agree with itzu giving them bonus loot if they trip will really motivate people and also building upgrade time reduction or giving a training potion/hero potion etc for every trip is such a cool idea or who knows might even get some gems per trip
Another solution for supercell to tackle the skill disparity in the community, is perhaps having separate legend league for each level of town hall, to keep thing a bit simpler, perhaps starting from town hall 11 or 12 Im sure that will encourage a lot of new players motivated to improve their skills, since now they have the environment to do so, rather than just rushing their TH level Having separate competitive environment for lower THs is good for players that prefer to base building as well, so all those pros base builders have a lot more rooms to unleash their creativity, not just on end game TH levels, this will in turn encourage more pro low THs tournament being hosted
Agreed on most arguments. I haven't done anything but queen charge attacks for years. But still, I have periods where i can't seem to triple anything (rn for instance). At the same time, i see some ppl seemingly not able to learn strategies despite lots of efforts. So part of it might be related intelligence and non-improveable. SC definitely tries to make this game enjoyable for everyone, which probably means it's less interesting for pros.
I think the main reason behind this problem is that at its heart, clash is a casual game. The vast majority of players aren't great attackers because they only log on to do a couple attacks a day, they don't even know there's a pro scene, and all that matters to them is to see the upgrade timers go down and the progress % go up. Many players only see clan wars and cwl as a way to get more loot. Why would someone who only cares about progress try to learn advanced strategies when they can just edrag spam, get a reliable low % 2 star, get their medals and move on? There's also the problem that you need good heroes to 3 star, but upgrading heroes takes a long time and a lot of low skill farming. You probably don't want to attack in war or even try to 3 star without your heroes because you're wasting your time. Then, when you finally max your heroes for your th level, unless you've had them down 24/7 since day 1, you only have a week or two until you're ready to go to the next th, and the process repeats itself over and over again.
The main problem is that only a certain type of attack (blizzards/super archer blimp) are more effective than other attacks like bat spells. It makes no sense.
I agree overall. The bases with additional defenses over the years have become very complicated for most people. Currently the feeling in my clan is that the offense from TH15 is not much more powerful than TH 14.
I totally agree, something needs to be done. I am th 11 and I try to use proper attacks, but I think it would be more beneficial for me to just use goblins or something...
That's a small part of the problem. To rush is convenient because of the cwl format (and that's crazy). Rushing u will find in wars rushed against you and you're gonna learn nothing. Than, heroes are becoming stronger at any new th release, but you're gonna have them in upgrade for the most of time. Heroes are now kinda 50% or more of the attack power so how can a not pro player triple without them? I could go talking about theese problems for hours but theese two are the biggest I have found in my like 10 years journey in coc
![iTzu [ENG] - Clash of Clans](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_l7j7ARRsDT3xq3TECD_Pu8QsPh7JjY1m_UIb-KrNTxI7Y=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Another good way to encourage people in becoming better is letting use the heroes while upgrading. Many clans negate the possibility to that player that are maxing heroes to play in war or Cwl. This 1) slows down the upgrading process (no heros>no 3 stars > less loot) and 2) does'n't let you train. And the bad thing is that when you're finished with a th there's another one so you'll never have all 4 heroes ready to battle. This has to be extended also for friendly challenges
Heroes being unusable is really the biggest problem, I currently have at least 2 heroes upgrading at all times. And while the cost removal of troop training encouraged at least me to not use farm armies and try out normal strategies instead, how am I supposed to really learn them when I dont have my heroes which are a big part of attacks, if not essential for certain strategies (e.g. queenwalks, wardenwalks, warden ability, ...).
even more about this - you can't play friendly challenges when your army is training for regular attacks, because your heroes are down after the previous attack while the army is always ready from the friendly army. This is absurd!
True. By the time players max out heroes for the current TH, their base is maxed for the next TH and they move higher without practice.
Best way honestly
Dude darian said that upgrading heroes and not being able to use them is a strategie and i totally agree with them,but they should add a magic item that ables you to use them for like an hour,for me what you said is not an excuse,because i've done it the hard way and free to play,after 3years of playing im now th14 with max heroes and now i can use them and practice as long as i want to,this is the reward of spending years maxing heroes and i think things should stay like that.
When I started playing the game, I always thought that getting a 3* is the most rewarding part of the game, whether I was just farming loot or taking war/cwl attacks which meant that by the time I’d be half way through a town hall I would already know at least 3-4+ strategies I could use to confidently 3* pretty much every single base. This isn’t the case for my clan mates though, they are exactly how you describe, they can be a th 14 with max heros + pets and I’ll watch them get a 1* against a th 13. I really don’t know how supercell can incite a change in skill but I’d love to see it happen
It's also annoying for me because all of my clanmates just neglect their heroes and can't attack properly, just placing down random troops in random places, and they're all under-leveled heroes which is silly.
Sound to me like a guy who didnt have his heroes available for years
1. The dark elixir hero/pet grind is just too much for casual players, and most of the advanced strategy requires a lot of dark elixir to work. For ground strategy like hybrid or smash attacks, you need at least super wallbreaker; Lalo itself needs minion, lavahound and haste spell lab upgrade. Therefore, Edrag and dragon are the only decent army to players who need dark elixir for pets and heroes.
2. Right now the star system doesn't encourage going for 3 star at all. Most of the opponent I encountered always charge from town hall side and get a low percentage 2 star, and I feel like SC should award those players who try to 3 star the base by adding more stars for 100% destruction. For casual players, it's just too easy to get a high percentage 2 star by spamming than planning an attack and taking risk for 3 star.
@@dgcu-t96 but you’d think that if you do hundreds of attacks with Edrags you’d actually learn over time how to be good with them. Throughout th 11-14 i would just edrag spam when any heros were down but I still learnt how to 3* most bases or at least very high 2* but these guys still don’t even know how to get more than 1*. But like you said with no incentive to chase 3 stars from SC they don’t have a reason to learn i guess
hi iTzu,
i think most people who are "bad" don't really care that they are bad. they know they are bad. They just don't care. They are casual players who play for fun and do not take the game so seriously and do not have time to spend hours practicing a hard attack like blizzard lalo for example, or planning for a long time a plan for every base they attack. I'm one of those players. Sometimes I can fail and get 1 star vs a th13 (as a max th15) because i just went in with my default spam brainless army. I did not plan for the base and yes, it's upsetting at first when I see I am getting a 1 star vs a th13 but at the end of the day it's not the end of the world. I still enjoy watching your and other pro's videos and seeing crazy strategies and insane 3 star attacks and even though I know I will never get to that level, that's ok by me.
This☝️
I believe changing the Star Bonus could solve the problem. Allowing player to get a certain amount of star bonuses daily instead of once daily. 2-3 Star bonuses a day would incentivize players to try for the 3 star, and reward players for using 3 star strategies.
One solution to the problem you discussed in the video might be by changing two things in the friendly challenges :
1. Let us have the ability to use heroes in friendly challenges. Most of the players are free-to-play or non-gemers, and they spend quite a significant part in upgrading heroes. That is one big reason why no one is able to practice different armies. Cuz if you want to improve your skills, you have to employ feedback. Meaning observing what went wrong in ur attack, rectifying that, and then trying again on same base to see if the rectification worked. This isn't possible in farming even if you farm with proper strategies.
2. You can attack ur own base, like in clan capital. That way, you will always have someone to practice on who is at the same townhall level as your army should be able to triple (tada, Surprise !! 😂).
One more problem in having to learm while farming is that most people have always 4-6 defenses on upgrade(so they don't defend). So even if you are attacking the same th and getting triples in farming, that doesn't give u a right index if the army u are using will work if the base didn't had those defenses on upgrade.
bro just copy pasted from judo's video
People dont use new armies because they fear failure and have no determination ..the games fine and improves yearly .. morons just need to improve along with it
@@44shafil21 What judo sloth video? Someone posted this on reddit about possible suggestions ideas... And these two were there. I never said that I came up with these ideas, just that these could work.
the challenge system indeed is trash rn i feel like, i think being able to always attack yourself would be a huge deal. For new strats i have to switch accounts for every practice attack to put out a new challenge in the clanchat, and most people dont even have two accounts or a clanmember on the same TH that is always online
I farmed for 8 years now max TH 15 CWL is embarrassing.
there's also the problem of resource inflation.
Back when 3 star bonuses for trophy ranges were introduced they were good. But now when you can get more loot in 10 minutes of sneaky goblin farming then 2 3 star attacks in titans, there's no real incentive to do 3 star attacks.
My suggestion would be to:
1) add some attack related quests every day/week similar to clash royale. You could tailor these quests to incentivise people to learn how to queenwalk at th9, warden walk at th12 etc. (the practice attacks you get when you go to a new th is a good step but we need more than that to make people learn to play better.)
2) either increase the amount of loot in daily star bonus or have a more exponential growth between trophy ranges. Right now a th15 can easily farm 2 million resources per base in champions 3 - masters 1 range while getting a decent star bonus just by getting 1 stars with sneaky goblins. having exponential growth of 3 star bonus would push people to learn starts.
3) have trophy resets for lower trophy ranges with seasonal rewards. At the moment legends league is only for th15's. that's probably less than 10% of the playerbase. Meanwhile in clash royale people only have to max 1 deck and can start trophy pushing and practicing more competitive playstyles. Having some sort of tiered system where the higher you climb the more rewards you get access to will certainly make people push more. Say for instance, you're a th12 and you push to Titans 1. If there was a seasonal reward of a builder / research potion / resources it would incentivise you to push all the way up there. Then once the season ends you go down to titans 3 and by pushing again you can get that reward again.
Another major issue that others have pointed out is the gruelling hero upgrades. I think Supercell realized this and that's why both th14 and 15 have only 5 hero levels for each hero which is much more manageable then the 10-10-10-25 levels at th13. However that doesn't change the massive amount of time players spend without heroes. How do you make players improve when their heroes are upgrading?
1) rather than reducing upgrade times and costs every 6 months, just combine levels. Do we really need players to upgrade the Archer Queen and King for 30 levels at th9 with each upgrade being about 2 days? most casual players will take ages to achieve this. Change it so the max queen level for th9 is level 20 (same stats as level 30 queen) so that people spend less time having to farm resources. (you can have the net time stay the same or decrease it slightly I guess).
2) make heroes available during friendly challenges. Others have expanded on this.
3) reduce the cost of hammer of heroes. This honestly never made any sense to me. why does a single hero upgrade that takes less time and resources than a lab or building cost more with medals? 165 medaals for 8 days off and ~300k dark elixir is completely useless when I can do a 16+ day dark elixir troop/spell with only 120 medals. Same for warden and elixir troops/spells/buildings.
That last attack really hits home. So many of my clanmates are just mindlessly spamming e-dragons and get 60% 2 stars. When I try to advise them into using another strategy, they tell me: "I have no time to learn other strategies, and this was 2 stars, isn't that good enough?" 😓
I think you are right on point here. Edrag wall + blimp and you get that 50-70% 2star almost every attack. Then you try to "learn" how to play and you get couple one starts or even 0 starts, so you jump back to edrag and thats it.
I would go different route and i know ppl are going to hate this, but,,,,same as heros, if you have barbarians upgrading in lab, you shouldnt be able to train them. I dont know if that is enough time to force ppl out of their comfort zone, and maybe majority of ppl just spam dragons for that couple week their edrags are upgrading, but...maybe one or two actually try some ground troops for that time period.
I do agree that the mechanics of the game is the biggest reason why there are very few players who can 3star a base on theyr lvl! Time its the biggest value we all have in our lives and the majority of the players who play the game like the ideea behind this game but they are not willing to spend hours in game daily cause there are better things to do in life! so they '' cheat'' and by that i mean they use sneaky goblins or the old good barch army witch have always helped to provide resources!
Personaly i play the game from march 2013 and i still have a lot to learn ...that's what drive's me in the game, that's the reason i still play cause there are always new strategies, new ideas , new bases who can make surprises in cwl and so on...
But like u said in the video, the majority of the players just play for farming and there is no skill needed in farming.. that must change in my opinion!
Hey Itzu, thanks for this video! I absolutely agree with you. My clan complaining all the time that we can't promote to higher league in CWL, when they are only using e-dragon. They can't be asked to learn different strategies yet complaining on their performance.
I have the same problem in the clan I am in. A good % use edrags and are happy with 2 stars and good loot. We don’t win many wars due to this approach to the game but no one wants to try new strategies.
completely agree with you. I notice thi problem in my clan: for those who know how to attack it is hard to get 3 stars vs th15 but for others that are continuing to attack in the same way it is really hard to get 3 star even with th14 or 13. I think that the problem is not easy to solve because the last group of people don't want to invest more time in the game or improve
One of my biggest issues with the game is the very limited options for practicing attacks. The practice maps are not helpful since you are forced to use the exact same army composition everytime. I've suggested they should let us customize our armies in the practice maps. The other option is friendly challenges. This has several hurdles: 1. you are limited to clanmates who are the same townhall as you. 2. you are limited to clanmates of the same townhall who are online at the same time as you. They could get around this by allowing us to attack our own bases.
If you want to become a better attacker you have to be able to put in reps just like any game. In chess, players are able to play nonstop against computers or online against other players. In poker, you can play many more hands online than on live tables. With clash it's not like this. You get 2 attacks then you wait an hour to do another attack. The 2nd life on heroes was a great addition. The issue is still with training time. We need more options for practicing imo. I've always felt for years this was holding me back in this game.
After almost 10 years playing this game I rarely found a very good attacker raid my base and triple it..
No matter on normal raid or in war..
It's always spam attack.. it's really not matching having a max account with zero skill..
The goal of the casual players in the game is the race to get to the highest th level (th15) and not to 3 star bases. This is why so many bases are rushed. My clan, we convert players with rushed into max bases. They practice attacking each other, become more aware of defense building placements, and start scouting bases to trap locations so they can attack better, whether farming, classic war, or cwl. I have 3 almost maxed th15 bases to show lower levels how to build bases and attack strategies. We have no players in legends and only a few in Titans. We are consistent in cwl and getting better at classic war. The problem is that high-level players and competitive players aren't will or lack patients to teach the game to the casual players in the game. Therefore, farming and the highest th level become the goal where looting for resources is the focus. My clan is now in Crystal II after 8 months in Crystal III. Lastly, casual players don't have hours to spend playing. Maybe more content on lower level attack strategies could be produced because the majority of casual players have an interest in legend attacks, cwl and war strategies, or competitive clash competition.
Staying on a th level for a long time is a good way to learn. You keep attacking, you can refine your skills. When I was a clan leader, I noticed players who were maxed and just didnt want to move on to the next th were always the best attackers
Also, friendly challenges are really good for practicing. They should make friendly challenege global for your own th, so you can find friendly challenges easier
I fully support this idea. Very interesting to see what the development team can come up with for ideas to help players learn to attack better. I agree, when I see someone throw all troops in a corner, close their eyes and hope for a good result. I feel sad watching that.
I 200% agree with Itzu, SC need to do something to improve the skill level of the players by some regular challenges with actual war type bases or something like more reward for three star..
Its painful and disheartening to see TH15 players failing on TH12&13.. in my champs 2 clan 🤧.
Same with my clan 😔
Maybe some community events where the pros build bases, and the community attacks them, maybe integrate them into the practice mode since it hasn't gotten an update. I think it can give the players an idea of what the pro scene looks like and make them learn and progress. I'm not against edrags or sneakies or witches, as the game is balanced with troops, but players who use these without too much skill involved, just spoils the game. I'm in champs 1, and seeing TH15s fail on a TH12 is miserable. I like base building, yet everytime my base gets spammed by some stupid strat, I don't even get to see if my base actually defends, NOT EVEN IN CWL.
How you make it to champs 2 with players like this !!!
@@y.b.443 I carry them with 4-5 ids in CWL 🤧.. I just request them to safe two star and I get couple of triples to push forward.
@@eyf_karthe3030 exactly 💯
I'VE BEEN PLAYING COC SINCE LAST 6 YEARS AND TRYING TO GET 3 STARS EVERY SINGLE TIME WHEATHER ITS NORMAL ATTACKS OR WAR ATTACKS . AS A RESULT I'VE IMMENSELY IMPROVED MY GAMEPLAY . I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT MOST PLAYERS DON'T DO THIS SO AS A RESULT THEY ARE CALLED NOOBS EVEN IF THEY'VE GOT GOOD BASES .
@iTzu , Thank you for addressing this problem. In my opinion , skill level issue is hugely prominent in CWL. Around Crystal 1- Master 3 (where only one clan promotes and 2 demote) you can notice a huge number of clans with ''bad'' players sitting on th15s without ever learning the game. Clans that come from lower leagues usually consist of th12s and 13s and this level unbalance makes it almost impossible to keep promoting.
The bonus reward doesnt help. As a th 15, i can 3star an inactive th14 with just heroes, siege machine and goblins without CC. so will just give another reason to use fast training attacks.
Also you are forgetting some key details going from 1-15.
1) There is a 2 year gap from th1-15 and alot of loot needed. Doing 1 attack every 45 mins for 700k loot, is not gonna cut it when you can do 8-10 attacks back to back for 500-600k each attack with goblins.
2) 1 year (more is you dont farm your behind off) out of the 2 years is farming without heroes. So cant actually do proper attacks. 1-15 is all about loot.
3) Even if is goblins, or war attacks, if a dead base pops with 800k+ loot, people will hit it instead on hitting an active one risking failing. Dead bases are not practice.
Only Solution allow heroes to be used in friendly challenges while upgrading and be able to attack your own bases when storages are full and no builders. Also a good idea would be to allow a player of lets say th 8, when someone th13 offers a challenge, the other guy to be able to use th 13 troops to take on the challenge instead of not being able to have some fun with challenges because you are a low lvl th.
It’s time to change the star system. 1 star for 50%, 1 star for 70%, 1 star for 90%, 1 star for 100%, 1 star for TH. Would mean the difference between fine attackers and great ones was made smaller.
The main issue is heroes being unusable when being upgraded. An idea could be e.g 15minutes off a hero upgrade if you 3 star at legends 10mins at champions etc. You could save this up then upgrade a hero and have a few hours or days off that hero. Giving a motive to attack with heroes. But still keeping the money making aspects (for supercell) of gemming heroes, buying magic items etc.
Yes that is true. There has to be solo modes where clashers can try things out without the reliance on clan mates for troops or friendlies. Problem is when you are not in a really active clans its also difficult to explore new strategies instead war attacks kind of become testing ground.
Also there are a shit tonne of players who use absurb combo in clan capital too. Like using jump spell on mountain golem/hoggs, or dropping graveyard spells after their entire army has been transported to the underworld. When opponents do so, it is hilarious. But when someone from your own clan does it, well it is not a good feeling. 😂
I agree that there should be more support for helping players to become better at the game. But before I get into suggestions on how to achieve this, I also feel the need to say that not every player will be interested in making great attacks all the time. Yes, I also want to motivate players more, and I want to remove barriers and give them better opportunities for improvement. But the game also has some relaxing, soothing and social aspects that I value very much, and don’t want to lose. (That’s why I don’t play Clash Royale: it is too one-on-one, aggressive and emotional.) (In other words: CoC is like a Hayao Miyazaki movie. If we can, we should make it better at that, but in a balanced way.)
So, how to make this better?
* As others have already said, make friendly challenges better / more available:
+ Make heroes available in friendly attacks, even while they are upgrading.
+ Make attacks on your own base possible.
+ Let people set up an attack counter on friendly challenges, so anyone can attack the challenge multiple times. Maybe up to 10 or 15 times?
+ Let us use any quick-train army in a friendly attack, with one-tap access to them on each attack, without overwriting the “friendly army” (that should remain the most advanced, experimental army slot).
+ Make filling the defending CC for friendly challenges as easy (and free) as changing the friendly army.
+ Extra bonus feature: let people make friendly challenges at 1 or 2 TH levels below their current level (with base layouts from extra slots just for that), and similarly, let them choose to reduce their troop levels and army size by the equivalent of up to two TH levels (for demonstrating attack strategies to lower level clan mates). (This may require “shadow” quick-train army slots to keep armies around for that.)
And if you have to, balance all those new possibilities by making people take a break for some time when they have made lots of friendly attacks. So, maybe after 30 or 50 attacks, force them to wait for about 15 to 30 minutes before they can press the “Attack” button on a friendly challenge again.
* Yes, maybe some additional loot for making a 3-star while farming would be great. Also, for war attacks, a 3-star could give some additional bonus loot on winning the war. Not too much though … maybe 30% or 40% more?
* Support clan families better.
Let’s face it, to succeed in CWLs and wars, many clans only put a few TH levels in their lineups. So, there are clans with only TH13 to TH15 bases (or even TH14 to TH15, or just TH15s), clans with mostly TH10 to TH14, clans with mostly TH7 to TH10, and so on. If players want to help each other learn the game, then it should be much easier to bring several clans together, each with players at different TH level tiers. It should be possible to donate troops between these clans, to make friendly challenges across clans, to watch each other’s wars and CWLs, to chat with each other, and to move accounts between these clans without penalties (like, keeping the rank in the original clan, or keeping donation counts).
So, basically, make it possible to put up to, say, 5 clans in a clan family, and have a shared chat between them where donations and FCs work, and let them watch each others wars, and let people freely move between clans too. All other rules stay the same (like, you have to be in a war to donate to the war CCs, or you have to be elder to watch CWL wars, except when you are in that CWL, etc.)
I believe all this makes it possible to help each other get better in a much better way. And people can still opt out when they want to, and just play along a bit.
Upgrading time of the heroes is the biggest issue to practice or trying out strategies. I really hope Supercell make the heroes available when upgrading like if the current upgraded heroes is lvl 80 if we can use the heroes half the levels i.,e 40 or smth ths game will be lot interesting for who cant spend big.
I'm a competitive player. And th9 I feel is were u actually start learning the basics to all strategies going forward. It's where u start learning ur qw and ur Sui not to mention backend Lalo hogs even zap strategies also troop AI and how many tiles the spells cross . I recommend always using a war strategy to raid its good practiced friendly challenges
I have an idea but I don't know how much feasible it is.
The idea is that "training mode redesign "
Here me out! Every townhall must be provided with 4 attacks, eg. For th12 or above:1. Smash, 2. Dragon spam, 3. Lalo 4. Hybrid
Completing the 4 attacks is mandatory for every player after reaching newer townhall. Only then they can participate in war/cwl(this will also reduce upgrading th in the middle of cwl).
Also instead of giving the same base to practice, there should be puzzle to solve. Different segments of an attack should be seperatly solved(like queen charge/bliz at the beginning, sui in the middle, main troops in the end) then all combined once.
Watch how if they add this (rewards on anything for three starring in multiplayer) those same players that are attacking with sneaky or barch ( absolutely no problem attacking with those btw) going to be like: ohhhh now I am forced to learn and practice an Strategy for the next 2 months to be able to three star as many as my other friend who is getting so many three stars and boosted rewards on alot of things
And then BOOM back to where u started...skill gap will still be the same cuz those who already 3 star more will be always infront in upgrades than others who don't...
People need to start liking the game however they wanna like the game that's my opinion and if u like to just loot and get buildings upgraded and be a shit attacker (sorry for my language) then it Is what it is you are then just trash cuz u CHOSE to be trash (sorry for my language again)
Right now the state of coc we are in is probably the best state..
I remember yall wanted a huge skill gap dont you guys remember drag clone spam army when my little 5 year old brother could triple a max th14? Exactly, so if u want to be good, get time in, get triples, learn 2 new strategies, practice it daily and move to legends because that's where u get tested in 30 second...
The skill gap in my opinion is at its best point. So many people want to actually learn and so many people don't care about learning, why should it be a reward to force them now to play when in reality they might not even have time to.
Your idea itzu is not bad at all, but it won't change the people who don't ever wanted to learn new strategies and keep on being old school or just play the game for loot and upgrades, it will even make them more angry cuz other pros will even make the skill gap even bigger
The main roadblock in COC improvement is the time period when heroes are upgrading. If even one of your heroes are down, you lose out on a huge part of attacking. At the lower TH levels, there are often 2-3 month long periods between having and not having heroes (assuming optimal hero upgrades). Not only does this ruin the consistency required to get better, but this gets very demotivating for the casual player base.
I really like the direction SC is taking with having less hero levels and more pet levels. Upgrading a pet is less committal and doesn’t affect attacking as much as upgrading a hero. Reaching that level is very difficult and I hope someone can think of a solution that I can’t think of right now.
The point is to make money off of people getting impatient that they can't use their heroes.
Not being able to use my hero's is why I now use sneaky goblins for the daily's. Solution: everyone gets max hero's for free! 😝
@@analogworm yes but that doesn't make you a better player if you just sneaky farm 24/7.
Your completely right itzu I am a leader of a clan and i am the only one who actually tries to learn the game I use lalo and my clan mates are not practiced enough.. I wish everyone had the same motivation as me my entire clan only gets high or low percentage two stars
There's one key thing you're forgetting itzu, there are multiple types of clash players. Some have no desire to improve their strategic ability and just enjoy farming and upgrading. That last edrag user is a classic! No plan, just spam.
Personally, and I think SC realized this years ago, when I got to th8 and 9 I wanted to get better. So I turned to YT. Learned gowipe and gowiwi. Joined a Clash with Ash clan so I could war with people who cared about getting 3* and get tips. Then we joined some leagues like CWL, NDL, etc and I honed my skills hanging at maxed th11 till th14 came out. Our alliance has a bunch of extra accounts at various th lvls and I was given 2 more to war and farm with.
I say all that to show an example of a type of player. But I had to take initiative. The problem I'm facing is I've never been a maxed th cause I'd stay too long as a max th12 or whatever to get better at it. While upgrading, you're never as good as you'll be when maxed, but when you max, most upgrade. So staying at th13 to hone your skills when there is th15 now is a feels bad. So I've taken the last year off to upgrade my main to max, (2 lvls to go on owl and I'm upgrading to th15, first time skipping majority of walls). Then I can practice more.
You said it best, th14 was more forgiving... aka, each th lvl has a different skill set or army type that does well. But by not staying at th14 I'm not experiencing and practicing all the queen charge strats and lalo strats. I'm just using smash attacks and dragon spam to get by, with like a 60% 3* rate 🤮 untill I'm maxed th15. So we need incentives to stay at a th lvl to get better.. but that doesn't make SC money. So we'll never have a way to close the skill gap organically imo.
One massive problem I experience when trying new strategies is that I either have to go no heroes or I have to sacrifice using the strategies properly then I lose a lot of time while maxing because at least one if my heroes are usually down
I disagree that having casuals in the game is a real problem. Different people play CoC for various reasons; not all of them prioritize excellence. The question should not be how to force players to try hard. It should be, is it even a problem to have casuals and pros in the same game? I don't see that it is. If you think it is, only then is there a need to change the game, and the change does not necessarily need to be inducing casuals to act more like pros. (Which mostly won't work anyway. To the degree that you enforce it harshly, they'll quit.) The change might be more like just keeping them away from each other. This is of course what the game already does to a very large degree.
its awesome how iTzu teaches people who play and people who dont play that clash of clans is a top tire game to play and also how he teaches us clash of clans players or not demonstrate how the game flows
That's a good point X2 loot for a 3 star, because farming using sneaky goblin is much more worth it right now rather than planning an attack for 3 star in multiplayer battles and easier. Hope in the next update they do change this style for farming
I think you make a valid observation, and I do see a few players like that in my clan (long term Champs 3). They usually get to play normal wars and have to sit out CWL. If they don't use a meta army and show that they have a basic understanding of the steps needed for the strategy to work, they get benched. Unfortunately they are often very reluctant to try and learn a strategy because it takes a lot of time. I sometimes spend hours posting FCs and giving feedback to tune them into a strat, but we don't have the time to do that frequently.
Conclusion: The game has a basic practice mode... It probably needs expanding. Also, why have we still not got TH14 (let alone TH15) training stages?
At TH15 there is no dominant strategy. We always had base specific strats but it's more necessary than ever at TH15. That means you don't just need to learn 1 complex strategy, you need to learn several. With each TH level we get new buildings. The game has become too complex. I have to consider too many parameters. Its like juggling with 3, then 4, the 5 balls. There is a limit to how many balls someone can juggle before they drop them.
Conclusion: Stop adding different defences.
To head off people saying the game will stagnate... How about limiting the number of defences you can use for your base? For Example: Allow us 3 of the following types of buildings in our bases: Infernos, Eagle, Scatters, Spell Towers, Monolith, but not all at the same time.
Most of my clan mates pick a strategy and stick with it, no matter the base. I think I'm the only one who switches armies for troop events. The rewards are not enough insentive. Most of my clan mates scoff when I say I use Hybrid for a few days for a Hog event, for example.
Conclusion: They need to offer better rewards/insentives to play different strategies.
I really like your suggestion that destruction is linked to training time.
Also, the use of heroes while they upgrade sounds good.
Here's an example what I witnessed in the last few days in the game.
I wanted to drop out of legends cuz I wanted to goof around with random strategies and trying that in legends with limited attacks isn't possible. So I set up the progress base as active in legends, deleted the defending cc troops, and waited.
What I found interesting was that my progress base is defending better than the box base that I have. And I am not kidding, I legit got more single stars yesterday on my progress base(4) than on my original layout that I find good(2). And they had completely maxed heroes too. So yeah I definitely agree with you Itzu that in pursuit of maxing heroes, people aren't actually learning attacks, or more like not getting to learn attacks.
Also it has been 3rd day since I wanted to drop out, and finally my trophies came below 4900 a few hours ago. So that's an issue to if u want to address (there should be a direct option to drop out of legends and trophy get reset to 4900 or 5000).
I completely agree with you iTzu. In my clan there's a th15 player who could not three star another th15 with the base being a literal progression base. He played all 13 EQ-s on the th for example
I'm one of those players you describe. I've been playing daily for 6 years, th15 is just too hard. I'm struggling to find a strategy that's easy for me to do, being dyslexic its tricky for me to switch spells, troops quickly, the defenses speed is just too quick. There should be more player adjustments, pointer speed, font change , that would help. Also the game consistence, every time I use the blimp the drop is not the same. This is a great post, thx itzu.
It is hard to be a th 12 in cwl, when u are facing th 13 and 14. But i find a strategy that works very good, so now i avg 70% 2 star. And sometimes a 3 star if my blizzard takes good value.
I have th 13 that attacks my th15 mirror in cwl to 2*. it's relatively easy with edrags and blimp so my avrege stars that I take home is ~4.9* I don't understand why th 12-14 don't take guaranteed 2* at stronger enemies. My main army is sup bowl.
Those scattershot man, it's too much for a th12 to handle
@@dr.stonksakahelth5857 yeah
I think most player not using war army in multiplayer. Main reason is long hero upgrades. Due to hero upgrades , we don't use pro tutorial untill we don't gem which is not convenient. If there is way to use hero while using upgrade, it encourages people to play with full power and try different strategies. What u think about this.🤔
this isnt a problem if thats what they choose to do they stay noobs while the people that actually injoyed playing the game with creativity succeed as pros
Agree wholeheartedly!! I have always used 3 star strats for farming to help for wars, global and cwl. Not sure of solution. Maybe a practice mode where you can use your own friendly army instead of 1 to practice.
i agree with itzu so much on this. i have fun playing legit attack strats that work and give you the rewarding 3 star against a maxed out th with cc, so while you progress you get better so u are never behind in skill level.
one really big improvement in this regard was that they removed costs from troops, yet troops training time taking a good bit longer relative to barch, goblins, etc doesn't really incentivise players to go for say "zap titan smash" barch is way more accessable and quicker to train and you can use half and army in multiple attacks instead of one whole army and get your loot.
unfortunately loot is a really important and hard to grind of a mechanic that people would absolutely rather stay in low low leagues such as gold and silver to get easier loot than to get to champions, titan, legends. everybody feels that higher trophies = less loot + harder to attack bases, so why would they try to learn strategies in higher leagues when legends league loot can be lower than even gold league's loot...
As a clan leader i can talk from my experiences,it is really important for any player to be in a good clan,and having some king of competition between your clanmates,i really struggled to encourage my clanmates to upgrade heroes and learn 3stars strategies,and with time and encouraging them,alhamdollilah we reached our goal and our clan have max heroes and diversed attacks and consistant 3 stars,i dont think the problem is about the game itself but i think the problem is about players not having a competetive envirement and guidance from co leaders and leaders.(any leader that does not understand these things and not putting efforts to improve himself,cannot improve the clan)
In my eyes these kinds of vidoes are by far you're best. I love hearing your thoughts on the meta and state of the game. I hope Supercell is listening in, cause I don't think there's anyone out there who's better at understanding what is best for this game. Itzu GOAT
I Think the best way is to make the loot by percentage. If you got 50% you get 50%of the loot available. And palyer should be able to use heroes while they're upgrading.
I agree all the points Itzu sir....but with global chat dead and tougher townhalls..i feel its perfectly enjoyable at the moment. im sure 60-70% players only play for fun and chat and enjoy the normal wars etc. players will still not care for 3starring ..will keep using sneakies.
Part of the problem is that if you were a higher level, Townhall, it kind of forces you into legends league by default. That being said, only getting eight attacks per day isnt exactly what I would call enough practice. They could update the practice section of the game so you could try to allow new players to learn the more up-to-date attack strategies. Also, a lot of people don’t seem to utilize the friendly challenge as a form of practice on a consistent basis either.
I personally don't find bases yo attack in a FC .all my clan mates are either lower th or rushed.
Exactly why I just started farming bkuz obviously endless attacks & way more loot
Legends league does not help practice... LL is attacking random bases with random armies
Legend League is (un)fortunately only for players who know how to play the game and want to fight for a good place at the end of the season. However, I totally disagree that "8 attacks is not enough" or "not enough practice". Most people have a life and/or a time-consuming work, so they don't do much more attacks. I personally (when I entered legends) I started playing the game in a better way, as I learned the current meta and this also helps a bit on clan wars. Let's hope SC finds a way to solve a problem with those high town hall players with no skills though.
I agree itzu I have 3 accounts, 2 th15 and a th13 all using qc hybrid. I have used this strategy since th11 on all accounts. I am no good with others strategys as i don't risk using them in legend or clan war. So I don't get to practice them enough to get good at them. Many of my clan mates 1 star in war because they just loot as much as possible so don't try to 3 star, then they don't know how to for wars. When looting you can skip bases to find an easier one or one with hero's down or upgrading 5 buildings. All making the attacks a complete different challenge. Most players log on and off a few times a day aswell so don't have time to keep trying different strategies out or perfecting 1.
I have the same experience, earlier at th13 I used to do normal attacks in the form of farming, which degraded my attacking skills, then changed my strat and started using only proper army to even farm, and the result was rewarding, I started hitting more 3 stars, yes I fail now as well to get 3 stars, but atleast I have learnt how to save attacks which earlier I couldn't and scored 0-1 star because I panicked a lot if most troops died.
Also since the troops cost is removed, SC should encourage players to use different army strats in synergy.
Also minimum hero level, building level barrier should be implemented to upgrade because it is also the cause of mismatches, for ex- th15 with level 20-30 king/queen, they literally can't contribute anything
Due to the low level clans I was in, I never felt the push to play at a higher skill level for TH1-12. I found a great clan at TH13, but my heroes spend so much time upgrading that I can't really practice until I'm almost maxed for the town hall. Once I got TH13 strategies figured out, I was ready to go to TH14. I'm finally figuring out TH14 attack strategies, but I'm ready for TH15. Having heroes and pets down for so long prevents full development of attack strategies. That is one of the problems with the average player base. We don't gem or book heroes to max within the first week of the update
My problems with farming,( and I do bring full armies at legends level) is I rarely get the base I would use my army for. Its very very frustrating. Also, I am in a close small clan that has few th15 plus its international thus getting challenges is rare.
Watching you 3 star stuff is helpful, but the insight on how to approach a base on your own is the hardest leap. Maybe have a series where you coach an average attacker on strategies, and you can correct in real time how less polished attackers think.
The game has a couple of possible focuses. Keeping everything upgrading and optimizing the loot is the most interesting for me. So sneaky goblins all the way. My problem with attacks is situational awareness. Keeping track of a queen charge vs all the other troops. Focus a little too much on one and the other drops and the attack is dead. Each th level has become a little more difficult, but I managed to maintain consistent two stars. Th 15 hit hard that even these strategies started to fail and I honestly was winding down on the game and considered leaving it. It was only the recent blizzard attack that renewed my interest and allowed some chance at the three star. You are right that there needs to be better training in techniques. Allowing you to attack your own base, set your cc troops for friendly bases, picking apart bases to highlight their strengths and how various mainstream attacks can best exploit their weaknesses. I've seen so many high level players three star but I don't know why they chose to do what they did to get the three star so I'm left with nothing I can apply to my own attacks. Its a frustration and I don't know what supercell can do to fix it, but there will probably be a reduction in players if it keeps going the way it has.
I am one of the casuals who can easily fail on a th level under me. It all comes down to planning for me at least. I just don´t spend enough time doing that, and the biggest issue is not having a plan b in case something goes wrong. And I also believe that a lot of players are way too reliant on one strategy, instead of having the ability to mix things up depending on the base.
You should not need to plan for a long time. U only really need 30seconds like a farm raid. that’s the problem things are so complex u need to screen shot and drawl a plan over a picture. This puts to much pressure on a single attack. Most players who are new to the game or free to play don’t get in voice chats to communicate their attacks. These pro players who are really good set a standard to high for casual players
well, most of my clanmates 3 star th15 bases by accident, without much control half way through the attack. What is worse, even though they upgraded to th15, they struggle with th14's in wars, which is absurd because attacking a lower town hall level should be an almost free 3 star (but they fail more often than succeed).
😒
For most people it’s too much time and work to practice actual war strategies along with everything else going on with the game. Farming, Builder Base, regular wars, CWL, upgrading heros/pets, raid weekend, donating troops, multiple accounts, Clan games, special events and challenges, etc…
A lot of people also don’t have the time or motivation to go outside the game to find and learn new strategies
I see this a lot in clans I’ve been in. People usually try copy attacks that they see in wars but never take the time to learn different attacks for different bases. I usually learn multiple ways of attacking from RUclips videos or even watching livestreams. The time investment to actually improve is way to big for casual players, the game needs to add more of those practice mode attacks with actually army comps people use.
I was thinking of a "quest system". Let's say, you have to pay 10k dark elixir, or whatever, for a "quest" that requires you to earn 5 3-stars out of 8 attacks, or something like that, and the reward could be a builder potion. Or something like this. It would be cool for sure, and players could stick to their phones for longer if they want, for some extra progress. Also, not being able to use heroes while attacking is just horrible, you basically can't 3 star if you have 2 heroes missing, or warden. (ok maybe STARS could). This is definietly a problem. Sneaky farming can be fun, but going for 3-stars is a way better scenario.
Getting 3 stars against the same town hall level has gotten a lot easier now because of the amount of troops, spells and clan castle troops you’re able to carry to battle. Defense used to be a thing and it was beautiful. Now, they deliberately weakened the same troop on defense- ie super minion, ice gollum- you know who they’re trying to appease. Getting 3 stars should be a rarity and I agree, should be rewarded with extra loot when achieved. I’m sure I’m not the only one who deliberately lose to lower my trophies to avoid getting 3 starred from town halls higher than me.
True. As th14 I was the only player in my clan to ever get a 3 star in war vs 14. Now 15, I alone have 3 starred. Most th15 can’t beat 13s. Mentality is it’s enough to do a war attack, result doesn’t matter at all.
As a mobile gaming industry worker, I get your point but encouraging people for three stars wouldn't be enough for my experience. People would still spam their attack and move on. Most of the user base are casual players, they aren't really competitive and that's the way it should be.
But it still can be improved. Some part of the problem is that there's no room for strategy until you're in later stages. Untill TH 11-12 most of the people just zaps the air defences and release the dragons. And they get 2 stars minimum. This is so easy, why would anyone bother with any other strategy? People see that their defences are ruined and their loot is stolen. So, they just copy it and use it against others. It goes on like this...
I'm sure Supercell is aware of it but they wouldn't risk a change because if you make the game harder in the earlier stages, that would hurt the player retention. It means users would uninstall the game because it is hard. So they need to make the earlier part easy in order to hook the casual players and they make the later part hard in order to satisfy the competitive players. It's just a win some-lose some situtation.
Bottom line of the story we need a different trophy system for lower townhall. Because u can get lot of loot in lower leagues and dead bases are easier to three star. They can make it so that the resource multiplier doesn't work on dead bases but still how do u expect players to triple if they are grinding their hero lvls. What about trophy dumping? There are some leagues where the loot is maximum so sneaky gob farmers maintain their trophies in that specific trophy niche. A loot multiplier will make so that players triple a base grab the loot with multiplier and then drop back to same league.
If they want to solve all the problems they have to change the entire trophy system
It’s really ez to understand playing from th1-th10. Since when I maxed out th10 and moved to th11, I felt demotivated cuz I don’t know how to atk properly. Dragons were the troop I mostly used and so I started watching coc atk vids in hopes of me improving. It’s probably more than 10months and I started adapting to th11 and above. I learned sm on watching iTzu. The first strat I learn was the golem witch, though I played a lot of edrags but didn’t get how to do it. Then I learned abt yeti and immediately made it to lvl 3 some months ago. Then just last time super drags piqued my interest and I watched past vids of iTzu abt it and I learned it so fast (rage 9freeze). But here comes my favourite, just a couple of days ago I began lvling up my archers for the super arch blimp strat (this is the most fascinating atk strat of iTzu for me). Then I looked upon my old clan and saw my former leader using super archers yeti. So just a week ago I made my first super arch blimp atk with super archers yeti as main army and damn I enjoyed it sm 99% tho cuz my queen is upgrading (also lvl1 invis but it sure worked well). I started upgrading heroes recently cuz I realized I needed it more than upgrading my rushed defenses. I was able to 2 star a very strong th13 on war with just king and rc available which I think is the best strat for me. I’m currently preparing to learn how to queen walk or warden walk😊
Practice time is an issue. The best players have multiple accounts and can move between them without delay in attacking. More attacks makes a better player (also can donate to themselves). Most can only afford one account, but will not be able to attack enough to get good
So, the thing about using strats instead of farm. There are quite some points to that - mismatches in war and cwl are ruining it since the player is not learning how to play better and how to 3 start similar th, it teaches him to play agains missmatch for 2 start and therefore players start farming to get to higher TH so they will have the oportunity to learn how to 3 star their similart; Upgrade costs - supercell don't want players to upgrade since in this case they will lose players because they will get bored so they make that the higher TH the more you have to farm to upgrade so the higher TH lvl the more people will tend to farm and not train their skill since not upgrading the village leaves you behind other players; (From Alex Helix Pozzobon comment) Restrictions like not using Heroes while upgrading - not having heroes in an attack is handicaping the strat and 99% ot the time if you are an average/good player it will result in a 2 stars, at high TH as lvl 15 even pro-player have low chances to 3 star with all heroes down. And so on the list continues - as for me supercell won't give players oportunity to get better since in this way they will probably lose a chunk of players so finding an optimal answer is hard and require a lot of though. Also training troops require time that some people don't really have so they chose 3-5 attacks with sneakies instead of 2 strat attacks, maybe Buidel Base 2.0 will improve the gameplay since BH don't have training time but anyway it's not fixing everything else, sadly.
Completely true I'm th9 legend have been for over three years ...sick of having to attack lame th15 everyday and then get whaled by a th10 over 2000 trophy below me ,matching is terrible,clouds in champion and titan is awful when events run or clan games ,do something about it supercell,your game is broken and dying
I feel like a fix for this would that for every 3 star (but only Same or Higher town hall levels), you get a Gold medal that can accumulate over time, and can be used to buy books or something similar. that way, for every 100 3 stars, a Player can buy a book, which would be a good balance IMO
There’s no opportunity to learn the game if you’re upgrading your heroes all the time
I think the problem with why players cant successfully 3 stars is because they are not just enough into the game, only for maxing or attacking in wars. In my clan, I am the only one with more consistent 3 stars than my lower clan members and that's because they don't want to try new strategies. The TH13 uses mass witches and fails every time. Even if I show them videos on how to attack for each of their levels, they are just not into the game to become better, just to play it.
For clan war attacks, most clan has policy if heroes are under upgrade you can't be in war and you are upgrading your heroes most of time.
Agreed. I have clan members who don't even know the concept of funneling and they are TH15!! The 3 star multiplier or % is a great idea.
I agree with you, it is even more noticable in raid weekens
I have like 10 player in my clan that are at th 15 and still barley win districts with stupid armies
They literally put all barch army in one go and expect it to do majic
While i for example try my beet to get 2 attacks a district
Using combinations of stratigies
Every th i get to
I try to learn multiple attacks
Like i am always trying to practise
Blizzard lalo, 5 icey g, hybrid, yetti blimb, queen charges
I am surprised till now you find people putting dragon, and raging them with no effort of planing
Just put dragons , and hope it will work
Upgrading is a huge problem, it will take years and years to become a non-rushed TH15 if you start right now. Also, having a skill gap in the game makes the game fun. Spam at TH14 was a joke, they just gave anyone a 3 star with no skill. There needs to be a skill gap but all players need to be able to reach TH15 quickly so they aren’t worried about farming nonstop
I will be straightforward, the only reason i dont train normal strategies is because you just cant do them without heroes and i dont want to hinder my progress by MONTHS just because i want to get better at attacking.
To be honest the only way, as of the moment, there is to get better is to max a certain townhall and stay there, but thats completely counterintuitive for someone who has 1 or 2 accounts
I believe there is obviously a massive difference between how game was & is now, especially with upgrading times & costs. Most tend to try & rush to upgrade to next town hall level, whether rushed bases for upgrades or rushed as in farming for resources & not caring about trophies or star's. There should be a big difference between 99% & 100% rewards & for example 99% 1 star to a 50% 2 star, nevermind a 3 star. Some people eople have lost the importance of funneling, use of different troops & spells... timing, placement etc... which then shows in war performance. Also a donating record or rewards for helping fill war clan castles would encourage teamwork within clan.
Persistent friendly challenges that people could just keep attacking without disappearing would be fantastic practice.
I guess changing the "bonus star rewards" my suggestion is still keeping the 5 stars rewards but by 3 staring bases, special stars will be added into the prize pools. For example you did 3 attacks of 2 2-stars and 1 1-star, you still gain the 5 stars bonus rewards, but if you smashed 3 bases you will have a total of 9 stars (4 bonus stars) and those 4 bonus stars will give you even more bonus rewards. My english is bad i hope nobody getting confused lol
been saying this for years, my friends at school play clash casually and always ask to join my clan for troops and to do wars. (ive been playing since October 21st 2012) and I always let them in and they just get smashed in cwl and wars. and it's because they just farm or do their clan games or raid weekend hits. They struggle with mirrors tremendously and can only 3 stars down a th lvl maybe 20% of the time. all my friends above th 11 I get on qc hybrid and tell them to just play that. but it doesn't work because they can't farm as fast and its not rewarding to fail with an 82% on every multiplayer attack and get half the look you could have gotten if you spammed sneaky goblins.
Maybe do something like the current special attacks that give a reward. Except instead of 5 troops, the challenge is to use 25 loons - for a month. (so essentially a Lalo attack with a bit of personalization). Next month a 9 yetis. Next month 14 hogs and 14 miners. If the bonus reward is set up like the recent Xmas special where they need 15 stars, it is an incentive to try new attacks. RUclipsrs can help a little with tutorials but because this is in the regular attacks, tutorials will help, but not won't be formulaic.
My thoughts on this are.... I think CWL system is the main problem of this. As a free to play player everyone wants those cwl medals and they just rushed to highest Town hall possible to have max troops and attack lower level base. Im in th 14 rn but in last cwl most of the opps bases was rushed th15. I myself rushed to th14 because of this and i really hate to upgrade those heros. Because of that i never be able to learn a strategy cuz heros are constantly upgrading.
Hey Clash of Clans, allow us to play with kings and attack them during the upgrade. They are important. You should do that. Download an update on that, like if you agree with my comment
I feel like everybody matches th15's though. My TH9, TH10, and TH11 clans also match TH15's, It's just become normal. Also when you talk about dip fails, the most insane one I have witnessed personally was a TH2 defending against a TH7, the TH7 player didn't even get 1 star. He just hog spammed and didn't even bring the king so the defending CC killed every single one of those hogs making some good bacon.
We actually exploited the 50 v 50 matchmaking by having 2 rushed TH14 at the top (with high level troops and heroes but under leveled defenses), the rest are normal bases, then at the bottom we have very low TH like 4s and 5s. We reached 35 game winning streak spanning almost 3 months (we also play CWL that's why there are days we can't go to war). It all went down when we faced a lineup of 5 TH 15's. Final score was 150 - 145. They also used the same strategy as ours though and I guess it was only a matter of time until some clan would eventually defeat us.
Strategy and going for 3 stars is way more satisfying than constant farming and upgrading. A good was to make players more motivated to learn to play could be to have some kind of achievement system for each th level like a record of how many times you 3 starred in each town hall before you upgraded
a good way to encourage people in becoming more skilled would be to add some trophies on their profile counting their number of three stars in multiplayer and cwl so it would be a criteria for clans recruitment
i think a big part of this player skil decay starts after th11 and the introduction of low skill safe attacks like edrag spamming or farm attacks like sneaky goblins
Tbh, I don't see many attacks on any of my accounts that are barch or sneaky goblins, as army's are free now. But attacks without hero's are very common, as are just dump troops in a corner and pray. I think the downtime of hero's is why you can't actually learn proper strategy. And even though I upgraded my hero's around the clock, the time I could actually use them max level before everything else was ready for the next TH level was rather short. So maybe there lies an answer, shorter hero upgrade times compared to building defenses? So that there effectively is more hero play time. Maybe every three star cuts down an X amount of time of the hero upgrades?
I've been playing this game for almost 8 years, and th15 is the FIRST time i'm actually trying to learn the game on legends league, mostly after finding your channel (before i always just watched some replays and tried to copy mindlessly, failing a lot). Explaining your though process has helped me a lot.
Maybe a 3 stars could reset your troops and heroes because they went to a feast after crushing their enemies.
Maybe there's some magic item reward for a certain number of three star attacks depending on the league, which could also encourage players to not only three star, but also three star harder bases. There is the bonus loot based on the league, but that in my experience is easily compensated for by more easily obtainable loot in lower trophy ranges.
I agree with you. I think we get stuck on one army to attack with hoping we learn to master at least one strategy. But I still only 3 star once in awhile and I have 5 accounts with 4 at TH15. I spend a lot of time daily yet have not come close to mastering this game.
Sadly it's the truth some th15s indeed fail to trip th13s 12s . but I 100%agree with itzu giving them bonus loot if they trip will really motivate people and also building upgrade time reduction or giving a training potion/hero potion etc for every trip is such a cool idea or who knows might even get some gems per trip
Another solution for supercell to tackle the skill disparity in the community, is perhaps having separate legend league for each level of town hall, to keep thing a bit simpler, perhaps starting from town hall 11 or 12
Im sure that will encourage a lot of new players motivated to improve their skills, since now they have the environment to do so, rather than just rushing their TH level
Having separate competitive environment for lower THs is good for players that prefer to base building as well, so all those pros base builders have a lot more rooms to unleash their creativity, not just on end game TH levels, this will in turn encourage more pro low THs tournament being hosted
Agreed on most arguments. I haven't done anything but queen charge attacks for years. But still, I have periods where i can't seem to triple anything (rn for instance). At the same time, i see some ppl seemingly not able to learn strategies despite lots of efforts. So part of it might be related intelligence and non-improveable. SC definitely tries to make this game enjoyable for everyone, which probably means it's less interesting for pros.
I think the main reason behind this problem is that at its heart, clash is a casual game.
The vast majority of players aren't great attackers because they only log on to do a couple attacks a day, they don't even know there's a pro scene, and all that matters to them is to see the upgrade timers go down and the progress % go up.
Many players only see clan wars and cwl as a way to get more loot. Why would someone who only cares about progress try to learn advanced strategies when they can just edrag spam, get a reliable low % 2 star, get their medals and move on?
There's also the problem that you need good heroes to 3 star, but upgrading heroes takes a long time and a lot of low skill farming. You probably don't want to attack in war or even try to 3 star without your heroes because you're wasting your time. Then, when you finally max your heroes for your th level, unless you've had them down 24/7 since day 1, you only have a week or two until you're ready to go to the next th, and the process repeats itself over and over again.
The main problem is that only a certain type of attack (blizzards/super archer blimp) are more effective than other attacks like bat spells. It makes no sense.
I agree overall. The bases with additional defenses over the years have become very complicated for most people. Currently the feeling in my clan is that the offense from TH15 is not much more powerful than TH 14.
I totally agree, something needs to be done. I am th 11 and I try to use proper attacks, but I think it would be more beneficial for me to just use goblins or something...
That's a small part of the problem. To rush is convenient because of the cwl format (and that's crazy). Rushing u will find in wars rushed against you and you're gonna learn nothing.
Than, heroes are becoming stronger at any new th release, but you're gonna have them in upgrade for the most of time. Heroes are now kinda 50% or more of the attack power so how can a not pro player triple without them?
I could go talking about theese problems for hours but theese two are the biggest I have found in my like 10 years journey in coc