Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
It's called taking the whole counsel of God, not just cherry-picking a verse or two to try to support your notions. BTW, if you do not know the Triuness of God, the Jesus is God, you are NOT saved, not Born again, because it is the Holy Spirit that reveals that truth to you. REPENT! --- Isaiah 7:14-“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Immanuel literally means “God with us”). --- Isaiah 9:6-“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end….” ---"Matthew 1:23-“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” ---"John 1:1-3,-“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" ---"John 20:27-28-“Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” ---Revelation 21:6-7-“And he [Jesus Christ] said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” ---John 8:57-59-“Then the Jews said to Him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’ Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple…”
@@Jeffmacaroni1542 How utterly stupid and myopic. Wow, and a "google scholar" at that, which is no scholar at all. Google is evil and shows you only what it wants you to see. If you don't know that, you are ignorant and one of their victims. By the way, the translation of the Lord's Name has NOTHING to do with anything said here. But you allowed your own nonsensical, favorite subject to intrude on this discussion because you have no control over your own thoughts and reactions to those thoughts. Now, try to FOCUS on what is actually said, not what pops into your head... otherwise, you will continue to be an addle brained dimwit who jumps around from one fleeting subject to the next and never coming to the knowledge of the Truth and wisdom. REPENT! --YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN One who is born again (John 3), is drawn and convicted of sin (John 6:44 & 16:8), realizes they are lost and headed to HELL, then repents of their sins (Mark 2:17), believes Jesus is the only way to be forgiven of that sin (John 14:6), fully believes in the virgin birth, sinless life, substitutionary death on the cross, the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-8) and receives the free gift of salvation from the consequences of that sin (John 1:12), submits to Jesus as Lord of their life (John 13:13), removing themselves off the throne, becoming a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) then enters into a lifelong, ever increasing sanctification (John 17:17, Eph. 5:26) as they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord (2 Peter 3:18). Justification--sanctification--glorification or final redemption in the resurrection or rapture (1 John 3:2, 1 Thess. 4:17) ... all works of God so no man could ever boast or take any credit. --If you've read this far, I challenge you to look up every one of those scripture passages and pray to the Lord Jesus about them. --This is the most important issue of your life.
I love Jesus with all my heart! He saved me by His grace alone! 100% . I love His Law! I love the Sabbath and wait for it every week! I (and my kids) love the feast days. What a beautiful picture of Christ, who would want to miss out on such teachable moments with their family the kids will never forget. We get to express our faith in memorable and Biblical ways! Oh how I love your Law. It’s all about Jesus!
Just keep in mind what happened in 70 AD; the sacrificial system was destroyed. The temple is gone; the genealogy is gone; and the Levitical priesthood cannot be reconstituted. The feasts have been fulfilled in Jesus.
I’d never heard a Hebrew Roots teaching or met anyone who believes that way until after I’d read the Bible for myself and started asking my own questions after coming to my own conclusions 15 years ago. It’s been 100% spirit led and what a beautiful journey it’s been. When people ask what I am, I say I’m whole Bible. That’s enough. The whole Bible is still true and relevant in our lives. In all these years I’ve been in and around the movement I’ve never met anyone that teaches a works based salvation. I have met Christians, however, who I would consider legalists. I think you can find them on the fringe of every group. There’s also Christians who end up denying Christ. The two houses are 100% Biblical. Other than that, I appreciate the loving tone and your honest attempt to understand rather than demonize all these brothers and sisters who have prayed earnestly for more of Him and less of them resulting in God calling them out of pagan, empty, man-made traditions and false teachings and spurred them onto obedience, and a relationship, and understanding and love for the Word they’d never had. It all comes to life and finally makes sense. No extra gymnastics to make things understandable or to fit. Blessings to all as you search your Bibles for truth and wrestle with these ideas. ❤️
HalleluYAh. same here. Completely led by the Ruach. Deeper and wiser Truth. Its real whats been Happening. My wife came to Accept the good news in a similar belief system as HR, but had never heard of it and had no idea. I just followed the Truth that was'nt being shared by my local denominational christian church families caught up in a lot of mans traditions and have gotten away from the simple gospel and Obedience is better than sacrifice. The ancient ways are shining through finally. The Word is alive and there are way more books than the 66 modern canon!
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4 I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ. If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar! --"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 --"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14, --"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7 --"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 --"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 --"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
@@Equalshares Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4 I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ. If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar! --"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 --"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14, --"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7 --"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 --"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 --"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
You are one in a very, very, very long line of many who are coming to an acknowledgement of Torah 🙂 I am Jewish, I always believed the Christian's taught Jesus abrogated Torah but...I am seeing thousands of you guys recongise it's authority.
Hello Brothers, I am a man who has been a "born again Christian" for 42 years, and over the last three or four years (as an author, through my research), I believe the Lord has led me (by His Spirit) to research the Hebraic foundations of our Christian faith. I have found it tremendously eye-opening and revelatory...in that I was discovering Jesus all through the pages of the Old Testament. Yes, I would consider myself, now, as one who "embraces Torah" as God's divine instructions ("Torah" means "teachings" or "instructions"). As I listened to your commentary on "The Hebrew Roots Movement," almost every negative point that you attached to "the movement" could be said if modern Christianity. Look at the number of denominations, or flavors, of Christianity around the world. Yes, it is true of those Christians who now embrace Torah, as well. There is a wide variety of expressions and flavors there, as well. There are some who appear to be "trying to be Jewish" in the way they talk, walk, and dress (true). Do not Christians do that, as well? You can usually tell what flavor of Christianity a person ascribes to...by the way they look, dress, or talk. The comment that Hebrew Roots folks are mean, or down-looking on others...may be true in some expressions....but it is not what I have found in the numerous ministries that I have listened to, and partaken in. Could the same not be said of "some Christians?" Just ask a non-Christian. They would see Christians as those who "think they have found the way...and everyone else is lost." What was missing in your videos, here, IMO...was the fact that those of us (I can only speak for myself) who have begun to explore these Hebrew foundations have sensed the Spirit leading us (me) in that direction. It would take a long time to share with you the countless times I have sensed the Spirit confirming in my heart the things I was learning by studying Torah and learning the basics of the Hebrew language. Here are a few observations: 1) I have not see, met, or heard a single "Hebrew Root-er" claim "you must keep Torah to be saved." The commandments are merely our guidelines for living...it should be our goal to learn and apply these guidelines....as best we can (but of course, as humans, we will always fall short)...and yes, we still need the "saving work of Jesus Christ" to remove the debt of our sins. 2) It seemed your presentation was more based on this being "a club," "tribalism," "something to belong to that make you feel good about yourself." Geez...how often has that been said of Christianity. What was lacking is the possibility that these folks (most are Christians and have been for years) are Spirit-led...and to the best of their ability, they believe the Lord is leading them down this path. That has been my experience. 3) And for me, the biggest "swing and miss" in your videos was a lack of focus on the biggest draw for me (and many others)...and that is..."If it is in the Bible, it is the Word of God....if it is not...it is not.". Most of the Hebrew Roots or Messianic teachers I have heard and learned from...that has been the foundation they build on...1) What does the Bible teach (the whole Bible)...and is it being confirmed by the Spirit of God with in you? Yes...some may wear hats (ugghh), or kippahs, or choose to use the Hebrew names for God and Jesus (etc.)....but there are a great many who simply are drawn to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, from Genesis 1 through Revelation 22. I will say it again, to sum up, almost everything I heard you men point to as "a knock on the Hebrew Roots Movement" could truthfully be said of modern Christianity. Christianity is a very diverse entity. Some expressions are very legalistic...others are exceedingly "grace-oriented" (almost to a fault, as some tend to put repentance and obedience on a shelf...because it hurts the numbers). FYI...I still attend and am active in my Christian faith at a non-denominational Christian church (have been at this church for the last 10 years). Where I live, there is not a Messianic or Hebrew Roots congregation that I am comfortable with (most of the ones near me are very Jewish in their expression of their faith). So I do participate weekly with a congregation in Tennessee (I live in Ohio) that I really enjoy...called "Jacob's Tent." Yes...they do embrace Torah and the Sabbath and the Hebrew Feasts (why not..they are biblical), but they do not teach or embrace all of the "rabbinical trappings" as some others do. If you recall, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for enforcing "the traditions of men" (the rabbinical trappings...and man-made rules and regulations). He never rebuked them for obeying (or teaching) the commandments of God....in fact Jesus, Matthew, Paul, Peter, and others often quoted the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets. After all...."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us..." He always was, He is, and He always will be. Here is my email...if you would like to have a discussion about my experiences as "a long-time Christian who believes he has been led by God to research and study the Hebraic foundations of our Christian faith." I do believe your intentions were good....but it seems you were only presenting one side...the things that would paint this movement in a negative light (in your opinion). As you said yourself, you don't really know much about this movement...(it was described as "trying to nail Jello to a wall") and the parts you have focused on are not completely true...as you described them. The most obvious is the assessment that they believe "you must keep the Torah to be saved." That is totally false (although, yes, there are some who might say that...just as the Judaizers did in the NT...and they were wrong too). I believe that "all who come to God through faith in the One He sent to redeem us (whether we call Him Jesus or Yeshua)...be they of Jewish or Gentile origin....shall be saved. We are all sinners who fall short of the glory of God...and we all need redemption. But even Jesus said..."If you love Me, keep My commandments." I consider you men "brothers in the Lord"...and while I may disagree with some of your assessments, we are on the same team. May it ever be so!! Yours In Him, Bob Palumbo (unlockingcreation@gmail.com)
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4 I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ. If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar! --"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 --"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14, --"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7 --"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 --"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 --"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
Well, let's follow mens tradition instead of God's law. We get to call what is shit and what is good? Sounds like we're smarter than jesus and we'll make up our own law according to our dictates. Doesn't make since.
@@sergeantmajorleeebbs8907 Shalom and blessings. Calm down there soldier. Romans 10:4. Messiah Yeshua is the 'Telos' of the Torah. He is the goal not the end. Who is the New Covenant for and with? Churchianity? No, it is with Israel and Judah. The church do not have a covenant unless you are grafted into Israel (Romans 11) Hebrew 8:7. Look at the Greek, covenant is in italics because it has been added. Hebrews 8 is talking about the first priesthood not covenant. Would you like me to go on? Every blessing soldier;)
“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
You are quoting that passage out of its context to justify the Hebrew roots movement. Let’s take that to its logical conclusion. Mormonism is still thriving so is it of God? No. Should we continue to renounce it and defend the faith delivered by the apostles? Yes, and for the sake of the Biblically illiterate who are being deceived innocently.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 In a sense it is out of context, you are right. The attempts to oppose the people of the Way were physical in nature. Actual physical persecution. Modern Christianity is not physically stoning or lashing anyone from the Torah movement. But I do believe the Bereans passage is a good one for our cause. Or if we are considered ‘weaker brothers’ the mainline theological proponents should take the advice of Paul and for love of God should show love by not causing us to stumble in what we believe is sin.
@@ShaulTzuar Hello Shaul, I have had three friends get into this movement. None of them had any theological schooling or experience teaching others the Bible. I am not saying that to put them down but for reference as to how they went into it yet didn’t question anything. they began misquoting the teachings of the apostle paul which are my more strongest schooling areas. God did not make the Bible hard to understand but there are basics that any layman can follow and stay in sound doctrine. I have noticed that once someone gets into the Hebrew Roots Movement, all desire to preach the gospel is gone or they begin adding stuff to the gospel which is adding to the blood of Jesus so it becomes a works salvation movement. Many will deny they are teaching works but emphasize keeping old Jewish customs and how they are important when we are under the New Eternal Covenant that pre-existed the Mosaic Covenant. My buddy Mike that had gone out preaching with me in 1985, 1986 and again in 2007-2011 got into HRM. He slowly left our evangelism team. And no matter how hard i tried getting him back into preaching, things like Sabbath keeping became more imprtant to him. He rejected the book of Hebrews’ teaching that Jesus became our Sabbath and also that the Sabbath under the the Mosaic covenant was NOT a moral law but it was A sign of the Mosaic Covenant. There were two signs of the Mosaic covenant to enter in and stay in it. 1. FLESHLY circumcision which was replaced with SPIRITUAL circumcision of the heart. And 2. The Sabbath. Hebrews teaches us Jesus became our REST from trying to be saved by our good works. Jesus did it all and to Him we ALL owe. We are called to good works as Christians of course (Ephesians 2:8,9,10) but you will see in verse 10 that good works is created in us AFTER we receive Christ Jesus’ grace through faith. The Sabbath of course tells us we are to stay in OUR OWN DWELLING and do no work. I believe the Lord meant this for us to spend at least one day a week with the Lord because He knew most wouldn’t even do that. Basically, these things began becoming more important to the people I know that got into it than the great commission of spreading the gospel. The great commission was not “if you feel like it” it was a NEW COVENANT NEW TESTAMENT COMMAND that I don’t see HRm people doing nor 98% of non-HRM people doing. They claim to keep law or whatever laws they pick and choose from the law of Moses enamored with Judaism and then ignore the new covenant commands. And they don’t even keep the Sabbath and that is their biggie and badge of honor. They leave their dwelling and go to a church service thus breaking the Sabbath. You can’t keep part of a law and say you are keeping it. And Paul said, if you don’t keep ALL you are guilty of breaking all the law. Also, my buddy began eisogeting scripture to try to disprove that hell is an eternal home and the eternal state of those not born again through the blood of Christ that have not denied the covenant. One can go so far as to deny the new covenant (Hebrews 6, 10) and lose their salvation as it becomes a mockery of the blood of Jesus. I have talked to an HRM person who is now eternally lost and will be in hell eternally regretting rejecting the people God sent to them to turn from this. SEcondly, my buddy started questioning how important it was to believe in the trinitarian doctrine. The thing is if you have a false God, then WHO are you worshipping? Jesus claimed to be God many many times in the gospels through many things He said without saying I am God but He did say to the Pharisees, “…before Abraham was, I AM”. And there are several pre-Incarnate passages in the old testament that are clearly Jesus as the Lord of Hosts. But I have talked to many HRM people that ended up rejecting the divinity of Christ. They have another jesus now. My buddy even admitted to me that many HRM people had converted to Judaism. Nobody seems to know much history. God destroyed the Jews in AD 70 and rescued only the Christians in jerusalem. God also killed Jews in AD 363 for attempting to rebuild the temple under Roman Emperor Julian who the true church nicknamed “Julian the Apostate for coming against Christ’s blood. And modern day Christians are so enamored with Talmudic Judaism, Mosaic Judaism, Kabbalaha and so on. They literally are fulfilling an end time prophecy that says there would be a falling away from the faith or apostasia in the original Greek. They are part of the apostasy.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 Thank you so much for sharing this. I know that you care about those you believe(d) are brothers in our Lord. It is evident that you care about those being deceived by HRM in general. I have had friends from my normative Christian years become athiests. I have had friends from this Torah movement ‘convert’ to Judaism. I know that there are people from my previous denomination (baptist) converting to Mormonism. When you stop seeing a growth in Christ and a longing to share the gospel it is disheartening but it is not evidence that pursuit of Torah is wrong for believers. As they read the Word of God, young believers will begin to try and do what it says. So many times as a new believer when I would try to do what it said, I was called a legalist or was “corrected” and given churchy dogma that was weakly or not at all supported by scripture so that I wouldn’t do what the text said. Status quo was defended poorly but as a young believer I just went along. Not wanting to rock the boat. Your experience of HRM is a witness but it is not evidence against the basic theology. I will never tell someone who loves Jesus not to do as he did. Neither should you, He is our only Rabbi. We need others in the pronomian movement who will help counsel those going further afield of God’s word. Pray for those in HRM that they be bolstered against any doctrine that would exalt itself against the revealed word of God. Thank you again for engaging with me and telling your story. More HRM folks need to know that obeying God’s word does not include being distracted by Kabbalah, lost tribe theories, saying God’s name in a certain way, etc. etc. May you be strengthened to do God’s will by His Holy Spirit according to His word in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. ruclips.net/video/Q99OKnlvs9w/видео.htmlsi=6vFmrHIQaNJ3XsPa
We are fast approaching the time of the remnant believers in the book of the Revelation. They are described as having BOTH the testimony of Christ and the commandments of God -- as singing the songs of Moses and of the Lamb. Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea. Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations! Are you part of that remnant? It is completely counterproductive to tear down any part of God's Word. Like sawing off the branch you are sitting on. Some people in any group are trying to work their way to heaven, subtly those who oppose God's law think they are pleasing Him by that work. Oh no. Anyone who obeys the 4th commandment to keep Sabbath can be doing it for right or wrong reasons just as any person keeping the other commands can be deceived by thinking they are doing a good work for God. Satan is tricky. James clearly defines sin as 'transgressing God's law." Be careful. Scripture is actually very consistent: the new covenant is clearly that His Spirit will indwell a believer making that believer desire to keep God's commandments. Jeremiah 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Ezekiel 36:26-27 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your fleshand and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. So this new covenant helps us desire to practice God's laws. He writes His law on our hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is interesting to note that Christ tells us that the 'new covenant is in my blood.' (Luke 22:2). This is because He is God's Word or Torah lived out perfectly in the flesh, rightly applied to the situations of life. When His eternal Word is central to our being as the core and foundation of our lives, our lives become eternal as the Word in us.
@@michellecheriekjv4115 Yes. He is and He will be fully revealed when God's Word is fully played out. Zechariah explained how that is when God's name will be recognized as One.
@@michellecheriekjv4115 Yes, to explain my position: When people hear that some who follow Hebrew Roots dont believe the trinity, they immediately think that they must be denying that Jesus is God. That is a separate doctrine altogether. Most in Hebrew Roots who deny the trinity would be comfortable with asserting a doctrine of Tri-Unity that does not say they are three separate persons, but rather, that they are three separate witnesses. Scripture itself uses that language under the wisdom of the Holy Spirit who inspired it. This distinction is important because texts themselves explain how the Holy Spirit who indwells believers is the Spirit of Christ. And Christ Himself emphasizes that He is one with the Father. Zechariah clarifies that it is not until Christ comes the second time to reign exercising all authority that their names are One. In the meantime, Christ is clearly the only way we ever have interaction with Yahweh, either in Christophenies when He makes appearances on earth in physical form, or as His Spirit indwells us. A cultural reason that the trinity is a stumbling block is because it was used historically as a reason to slaughter Jews and Muslims though many of them taught about the One whose back parts were seen by Moses, who ate with the elders at Sinia, who negotiated over Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham and wrestled with Jacob etc. And who also recognized the Ruach HaChodesh (Holy Spirit of God) but who were not comfortable with assenting to the christian doctrine asserted. In other words, they talked about 3 ways God exists in time and space but never had a doctrine of the trinity. Such a doctrine is never delineated in scripture though the deity of Christ is asserted and identified as a stone of stumbling to those who are veiled.
Yeshua/Jesus will conduct every feasts during the Millennial Reign when He returns - they have not and will not be done away with. We don’t keep Torah to be saved, we keep it because we’re saved.
"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11
@@shawn-wr8ux A shadow, yes. Walk by the Spirit, yes. You are right on both of those. No need to repent.God's ways are good. Walking in the Spirit is good. Shadows are good. Get as much good as you can.
Nothing wrong with keeping ceremonial laws that have nothing to do with animal sacrifices as long as you are not putting your faith in your good works and adding works to salvation. I can see why the apostles and the early church fathers never taught Sabbath keeping. When this has become more important than the gospel with Hebrew roots people something is serious wrong. Souls going to hell without Jesus is less important than keeping a ceremonial law?
My husband and I (along with our children) were in this movement for seven years. We are no longer in the movement and haven't been for a few years now so I am very interested to watch this. Thanks for thanking the time to do this.
My husband and I were raised in it, and were starting to raise our kids in it, but have come out over the past two years. I think more and more people in it are beginning to wake up to what the scriptures as a whole actually teaches. I'm grateful for Cultish, Andrew at Beginning of Wisdom, Mike Winger, Solberg at Defending the Biblical Roots of the Faith, and others who are making an effort to understand where people are coming from and explain the beliefs and their errors. I don't think many in the movement would hear them but it's good for those who are coming out or looking into it.
@@MB-vi8zp Glory to Jesus Christ that you came out of it. I enjoyed this episode and felt like they did a very good job of remaining respectful and kind even while expressing their concern over the dangers of the movement.
Same! I was getting drawn in about 7 years ago and started leading my little family into it. By the grace of God he pulled me out. I came to saving knowledge in Christ as savior in 2017. HR don't see that Leviticus and the rest of the old testament points to Christ, the one who would follow the law perfectly for us. I see now, that they have a very low view of God's holiness, a high view of self, and a low view of sin because they think that we have the ability to purify ourselves or maintain our righteousness. They see sin as something that we do as if it's outside of us. Sin is our nature, it starts in our heart. Our sinful heart is the problem. It's deceitful and wicked and not understandable. Sooo thankful for Christ and his righteousness.
@@jenniferr7361 ... Excellent comment. I follow a group of them...and it's crazy to me after coming to Faith in Christ that they pretty much ignore The New Testament where we are saved. They heavily focus on The Sabbath and food. What's odd though...as l was reaching out to some....some deny the Diety of Christ....and the Tri-unity of God. Now l see some really do not like to even talk about Paul, or deny Paul completely. It just seems that most are not even saved. When l try posting about Salvation on their pages....Soo many of their followers come and ask me how to come to Salvation. It seems like Satan has his hand in this. It's a huge Stumbling block. God Bless.
Hebrew roots is : DOING WHAT JESUS DID not because we can for justification (salvation) but because Jesus is our example. Sin is breaking the Law. Those that break the Law have never known Jesus 1 John 3:4-8 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.(A) 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins.(B) And in him is no sin.(C) 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.(D) No one who continues to sin has either seen him(E) or known him.(F) 7 Dear children,(G) do not let anyone lead you astray.(H) The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.(I) 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,(J) because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God(K) appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.(L) Teaching others to break the law has consequences: Matthew 5:17-1917 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.(A) 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.(B) 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands(C) and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven Righteousness is keeping the Law (why Elizabeth annd her husband were chosen as John the Baptist parents) Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly As a definition, we keep the Law because Jesus did. Righteousness is keeping the Law, but Salvation is only through Jesus Christ! After you get saved, if you try to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself (Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18 b) the you are keeping the Law! The definition of sin, breaking the Law, is taught to show us how to Love God, keeping the Sabbath and his prophetic feasts, respecting his ways like Jesus did. The Law also then teaches us what it means to love ourselves and others! We don't eat unclean animals because that is not what God says is good for us. We also have to know how to love our neighbors by setting healthy boundaries for ourselves and others. Faith without works is dead! Show me your faith without works, and will show you my faith by my works! (With fewer words) If faith without works is dead, can that faith save you? All I am saying is that when you look into it, you are already doing most of it. I will answer questions! I was a second generation baptist preacher's kid, and knew what I believed as a Baptist. As a Torah keeper, it is a lot easier to know what to do, because I have a definition of what sin is for everyone! In Protestant Catholicism (any Sunday keeping church) you don't have that. The simplest thing is to just ask Abba Father how He wants you to love Him, and seek after that.
Hebrew roots movement. Jesus is the torah the law manifested in flesh. Jesus kept the law, and the law does not change. Jesus "im God manifested in flesh, and i give you a NEW command, love your neighbour as i have loved you". Thats the commandment, keep it because love fulfills all the law.
"So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one may fall through the same pattern of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:9
Also, Jesus in Matthew 24 speaking of a future time, 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. And, Jesus also says in Matthew 23:1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. DO and OBSERVE all they teach but don’t do as they themselves do because they’re hypocrites.
That's the eternal rest of which the Saturday observance was just a shadow, which they Jews couldn't have. It's weird how radically people like you twist things to mean the opposite.
@@toomanymarys7355 I definitely agree that there is a future fulfillment of Shabbat when we get to our eternal rest. But, that is what makes our earthly weekly Shabbat so special. Plus, it allows us to take a break for 24hrs a week which is a huge blessing to our whole family. Shadows are wonderful to participate in while we live on this earth. Marriage is a wonderful shadow that brings me lots of fulfillment, but also knowing it's a shadow of what is to come. As I read through Acts, I also see that Paul and the disciples are keeping Shabbat the entire time which spans all of Paul's letters that he wrote to the churches. And really, we are supposed to walk the way Jesus walked and he kept the weekly Shabbat right? I think it's ok for me to do it to with my family and know that it is a shadow of what is coming.
@@toomanymarys7355 - sadly it’s the Greco-Roman Catholics who twisted the worship of our messiah out of the hands of the Jews. Our Savior is and was a good Jew. The Father chose the Jewish people to keep and guard His Word. His Son was born within Judaism and practiced Judaism. If we truly follow Him we will follow Judaism with Him…🙏
Messiah kept the Sabbath and the feasts and so did his disciples long after. I wonder why people have an issue with others wanting to walk as our example walked?
Mostly because the apostles boiled it down to abstaining from sexual immorality and from drunking/eating blood. This stuff gets in the way of the gospel because there is such a propensity toward legalism or adding to the gospel.
I think it takes the focus off of Jesus’ setting us free from “needing or being required” to follow those things for Salvation in Him. From what I understand Jesus did those things out of respect until He finished it. The question is how do you feel if you don’t keep a feast etc.
@@michaellacourse1013 where is the word trinity? Where is the phrase substitutionary atonement? Where is the phrase imputed righteousness? These are all concepts borne out by scripture. Legalism is also a concept, and Paul clearly outlines it in Galatians. If you add works to the gospel, it is no longer the gospel.
I don’t think that is what people have an issue with. I think what they have an issue with is the people who believe that is the only proper way to live as a Christian and that all others are either unbelievers or living in sin.
We love because He first loved us and GAVE Himself for us. This should be the focus. The love and grace of God is the message of the Bible. The fruit of that is focused on instead in the HRM. Of course those who love Him desire to obey our king. Christians don't disagree with that at all. But let's focus on what God has freely given us instead of the fruit of that. Gods grace and the gospel is the power. He has changed our hearts to believe and to follow Him. And it's an individual process. This verse isn't saying that those who love Him will be saved because of their obedience. We know that all have sinned and we are all unrighteous. HE GIVES US HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. And the result is that we love Him.
@@strykerdawn1 I totally agree with your points. I think King David would too, but he also loved God's Law. He said it "restored his soul." People can definitely get off track on so many different things. There are a ton of things within Christianity that people turn into bad things. But, my main contention is that God's Law was designed with love, grace and compassion as the main teachings within it. To me, that gives me more reason to trust and love God. And also to have more love and compassion for others.
Since you mentioned Mattityahu 5:17-19 I want to show you a Midrash I always show the Christian people to compare. Midrash Exodus Rabbah 6:1 states, "as Solomon was writing his copy of the Torah, he changed a single letter, Yod, to an Aleph. This was in the verse where it says, he shall not multiply wives for himself or else his heart will turn astray. Solomon changed the word "Yirbeh" which is spelt Yod, Resh, Bet, Hey, and changed it to "Arbeh", which is spelled Aleph, Resh, Bet, Hey. This small change changed the entire meaning of the verse, and now the verse reads, I shall multiply wives for himself and his heart will not turn astray" The Midrash continues. "Master of the universe. Didn't you say that no letter shall ever be abolished from Torah? Behold, Solomon has now arisen and abolished one. Who knows, today he will abolish one letter, tomorrow he will abolish another until he has abolished the whole Torah"
I personally came to the truth of Torah by simply picking up my Bible and reading it. Coming out of "Egypt" seems easy compared to removing the "egypt" out of self. Makes sense why youre saying, so many that have left the diverse denominations of Christianity, bring a little bit of their doctrines into the simplicity of Scripture & their walk. The more an individual walks in the wisdom and truth of Torah, the more you'll see those traditions & doctrines fall off. Jesus was sinless; followed Torah perfectly. We want to walk as He walked, right? There is grace in obedience. Curses and wrath where there isn't obedience since thats where sin lives.. "sin is transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4 We walk this way not to earn salvation, but because we love Him. Faith without works is dead.(James) 🍒 Works without faith is dead.(Paul) 🍇 They go hand in hand. 🙏❤ Salvation by grace *through faith.* Hear and do; shema Israel.
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4 I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ. If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar! --"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 --"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14, --"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7 --"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 --"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 --"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
@@sergeantmajorleeebbs8907 Faith without works is dead. Christianity IS mystery Babylon. The sacrifice of Yeshua was good for 2 days...2,000 years...any who eat of it now shall bring curses on themselves. A "Todah" sacrifice. Ezekiels vision of the future, as well as the other prophets, includes a new Temple, reinstated animal sacrifices to cover sin, and the keeping of all Gods statutes and commandments! Yeshua was a temporary fix, during the reign of Rome, to forgive Israel (Matt 15:24) for being "christian" because of the ferocity of lawless pagans. He did NOT come to save christians from Israel! You're a PAGAN, stealing Gods name from Israel, and there will be no forgiveness for Esau/Edom/Rome/Mother whore/26,000 denominations of protestant sun worshipers, santa and ishtar worshipers! You better go read your Bible again, because you sure don't understand it.
I've been into Hebrew roots for years and I have not come across anyone in the movement that actually promotes works based salvation. Perhaps I'm not well researched enough but I have put thousands of hours into my research.. they all say that obidiemce comes after salvation out of love. Yeshua means Salvation, and all of the many different channels I've encountered agree on that. Whoever promotes works based salvation and claims to be Hebrew roots is extremely rare, on this other end of the spectrum they mentioned towards the beginning. I am so glad they mentioned Herbert Armstrong and that history pre Internet! I just hope people who want to dismiss the hebrew roots movement first take a look at how much the catholic church changed traditions and what the early Christians did before they move on. Hebrew roots and mainstream Christian's are in the same family and God loves all of us and gives all of us the same holy spirit :)
Yes, they have cherry picked a tiny part of this stuff and posterized it so they can tear it down. It's called a straw man argument. I'd love to be on that panel just to show them what the Bible actually says. Bling leading the blind. Stay strong, sister!
Almost every one I have talked to does teach works salvation. I see it on their facebook posts. Maybe you are in a rare group of them. Many deny the divinity of Christ. Some have denied Paul as an apostle or reinterpreted his teachings. Some have crucified Christ Jesus afresh and converted to Judaism. Some have lost their salvation according to Hebrews 6. The Hebrews were tempted to go back under the Mosaic law and some just go too far. Hebrews 6 is a severe warning.
RUclipsr A Walk Through Torah QUOTE "Righteousness is keeping the Law (why Elizabeth annd her husband were chosen as John the Baptist parents) Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly" Her comment is on this video, she has 22 thumbs up, so we are going to pretend that the comment doesn't exist?
@@Power88987 yes. They were still under the Old Covenant. Keeping the laws would not have made them righteous without the daily sacrifices and the Day of Atonement though. They were sinners like everyone else needing a Saviour and His blood on the mercy seat in heaven. Jesus fulfilled all the ceremonial laws. Moral laws are still to be kept by all people of all nations.
Hi Audrey, I haven’t met one yet that hasn’t. They are trying to live under two covenants and reject the apostle’s teachings, the very ones who established the church. Many in the movement say you don’t have to keep the ceremonial stuff but your closer to God if you do. They all say if you don’t keep,the commandments you really don’t love God. But they ignore there are different and some of the same commandments under the New Covenant. Many have rejected the divinity of Jesus in Hebrew Roots and therefore are of the spirit of antichrist according to the apostle of John. Talking to a guy right now that has rejected the divinity of Christ since he got into it. You can keep all,the commandments of the mosaic law one wants to and go to an eternal hell if you deny the divinity of Jesus. Most twist the words of the apostle Paul and have some passages actually say the opposite if what it teaches and goes against 2,000 years of church history. I talked to a lady once that literally hated the apostle Paul. She converted to Judaism. She may be dead now and is awaiting eternal hellfire if she could even repent of her rejection of Jesus. This movement in some ways is way worse than Roman Catholicism. Ive talked to hundreds and haven’t met one yet that evangelizes. Why? They know they can’t unless they add SOME of the mosaic law to the gospel which is a other gospel then. So therefore they cannot obey the last commandment Jesus gave the church and that is to GO AND PREACH THE GOSPEL. There is no such thing as being Torah OBSERVANT. You are either all in the new covenant or trying to earn salvation by keeping ALL the old covenant as Paul taught. You cant keep them all. Men would have to present themselves three times a year in Jerusalem just to keep one of the laws. Hope they have thousands of dollars for those plain tickets and bosses that wont fire them for missing so much work. So unless I have only talked to 200 or so people that teach some works added to the free gift of salvation because of God’s grace through faith in Jesus’ work and after 7+ years haven’t stumbled upon those who don’t, I don’t believe your statement. Run from this movement like a Catholic should run from Catholicism if they truly got born again. I have seen so many begin to walk in the Spirit and then try to please God by law-keeping as if trying to merit God’s favor. The very definition of Biblical grace is UNMERITED favor. If you have a different definition, it is no different than the Catholics adding seven sacraments for salvation.
As a Hebrew Roots movement or Torah Observant, Messianic etc follower ( I just refer to it as "The Truth") I could clarify very easily and quickly: We believe that the word of God is Truth. The Torah is Not a Tradition. That the Torah is Tradition, is a doctrine made up by men....which is a tradition of man and a doctrine of lawlessness. Jews during the time of Jesus made up their own traditions in which Jesus was against. We are against those as well! Like washing the hands before eating was not a commandment of God. Like not associating with Gentiles was a Jewish Rabbinical false tradition and not a commandment of God. We believe that what Jesus taught was the same thing that Moses and all the prophets and disciples taught. To be very clear: The Torah is not kept by Judaism currently or 2000 years ago. The Torah is easily understood and not hard as Moses declared. Now, it could be hard if you are a sinner and practice lawlessness. That is a Burden! "Repent and sin no more"- Jesus. Some claim that we are "works based". We do works as James has declared to us. Keeping Sabbath, the feast days and eating kosher does not in any way give me access to the kingdom of God. We have all sinned and need our saviour to make it to his kingdom. If you tell your spouse that you love them every day but do not do anything to show that love then........you honor that spouse with your mouth but your heart is not there. Same is true with our relationship with God almighty. Like he said: "If you love me, then keep my commandments". Please understand brothers, the deceiver is not worried about converting the heathen but about converting righteous believers into lawless believers.
@@shannony6558 Ok, then please walk that out. Deuteronomy 30:11-12 For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. By the way, Paul actually quotes this section in Romans as well.
@@RQ_Spartan under the New Covenant, we are no longer under the law. Romans 7:6 ESV But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Galatians 3:10 ESV For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Galatians 3:24-25 ESV So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, Galatians 2:16 ESV Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Romans 3:31 ESV Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 7:1-25 ESV Or do you not know, brothers-for I am speaking to those who know the law-that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. ...
@@shannony6558 Twisting Paul to your own destruction. Peter warns of this in 2 Peter 3:15-16. And you completely ignored what I said to your original comment where what the Bible says is exactly the opposite of your claim. John says similar in the NT, by the way. And Romans 7, that is talking about the law of divorce and remarriage in Deuteronomy...that is why it says in Romans 7:1-2, to those who know the law. Did you know this law when you cherry picked that Romans 7 verse? And the apostate church needs to stop twisting Galatians. The law in Galatians that Paul was opposing was the separation of flesh laws = sacrificial law and circumcision. Acts 15:1, the SAME thing is happening...the Circumcision Party comes in teaching false doctrine that first must be circumcised in order to be saved. If you want to have a Bible verse cherry picking contest, I could fill up 100 pages from the Bible that teaches us to obey the 10 Commandments and 100 pages of warning against lawlessness. The Messiah warned the church but they have no fear that He will tell them to depart from him b/c they are workers of lawlessness. Rev 14:12 = the patience of the saints. The 10 Commandments are not instructions on how we can redeem ourselves through our own actions, they are the Eternal Covenant that God made with His People. Personally, I strongly desire to be part of God's Family. This is a circumcised heart. We obey Him b/c we LOVE HIM. That is Deut 6:5 - loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind. And I love my neighbor as myself so that this as a loving rebuke. That is loving your neighbor as yourself spoken of in Leviticus 19:17-18.
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4 I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ. If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar! --"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 --"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14, --"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7 --"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 --"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 --"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
I was raised Hebrew roots from birth and my mom left the faith when I was 16. We were isolated away from her and forbidden from associating with her, it took annother 4 years for me to get away. It's left me with crippling anxiety and an ED. I'm still in the process of recovery. I really hope you go in depth to their treatment of women and girls there.
Dearest sister. I do trust you are well off in your process of healing and discovering the delight of plain reading of Scripture daily. May the Holy Spirit console you were and when necessary as per Isa 66:13.
Actually, this stuff IS centralized but the reason many call it decentralized is because they are used to the centralization coming from man - an established religion with a set of written beliefs. This movement is centralized on the Eternal Word of God and the testimony of His Son - Rev 14:12, the patience of the saints.
All I had to do was actually read my bible. I figured out that everything that the "church" told me that the bible said (besides Christ's birth, death and resurrection) was false. I had become an atheist because what I was told in church and what I read in the bible was VERY Different. So I wrote all of it off. I have no idea how but in 2017 God got ahold of me and I started to read. Once I read the whole bible it all made sense and lead me to follow Torah. It really surprised me that when talking to "christians" about what the bible says...their response is basically...they don't care what the bible says because their pastor says differently.
Shalom and blessings. Well said. I find it amazing when so called Bible believing christians who say they follow 'Sola Scriptura' question someone who actually does believe and follow 'Sola Scriptura' from Genesis to Revelation, none of 'mans' traditions (i.e. churchianity) and walks it out daily. Every blessing. David (UK)
A sign of the times...a group comes along and says - "Hey, maybe we should read what our Creator told us and actually turn our hearts in that direction." The end times church's response - "Heretic! Cult! Rabble!!!! Tickle my ears! Tickle them!!!
I follow Apologia as I love, value and learn from Pastor Jeff Durbin’s street ministry. If you are going to examine the beliefs of someone else, why not just as them? Interview a whole bible believer or a panel of whole bible believers instead of making inaccurate assumptions.
@@christineharris8905 for me having almost no previous knowledge of the bible except the usual childrens sunday school stories. So, I read the book of Matthew as an adult, and eager to obey, I searched for Jesus' commandments and wanting to obey his law. A couple years later I was on my knees praying and crying out to God "I just want to know you!!" And shortly there after the dots began to connect when I saw a few 119 ministries videos.
@@RandomBoxingGuy I am confident you are not reading/interpreting said portions of the NT in light of the full counsel of Scripture. It is so easy to take the Apostle Paul out of context. People did it back in his day, and are still doing it now.
Sorry to say, Apologia Studios, Torah is still in effect and will be till the end. It is not a cult. Anyone who does not follow Torah are on the wrong path. Shalom.
Apologia led me to theonomy and theonomy led me to Torah observance, thanks Apologia for helping me see the abiding validity of God’s law today. I’m sure you’ll come along sooner or later. Anyway, practically everything said in this episode could be applied to Christianity in some way or another. There will always be those who deny essential doctrine within any movement. The only reason to ever accept any position on scripture, should be based on scripture, which Torah Observance certainly is. Torah observance is the example of Christ, also the example of his apostles, his disciples and the witness of the early church testifies to Torah observance. To insinuate that this teaching is novel or originated in the last century simply is not an honest assessment. The primary appeal is the biblical witness, which is sufficient.
Yep! Theonomy and Christian Reconstruction are extremely close to Torah pursuance. In fact, it's almost the logical outcome, albeit that theonomy still makes a distinction between ceremonial laws and civil laws. The Torah is a reflection of God's character, it's eternal in its essence. The feasts, or ceremonies as some people call them, reflect the beauty and complexity of Christ and His work in a myriad of facets that Christmas and Easter can't come even close to.
Agreed. All I had to do was actually read my bible. I figured out that everything that the "church" told me that the bible said (besides Christ's birth, death and resurrection) was false. I had become an atheist because what I was told in church and what I read in the bible was VERY Different. So I wrote all of it off. I have no idea how but in 2017 God got ahold of me and I started to read. Once I read the whole bible it all made sense and lead me to follow Torah. It really surprised me that when talking to "christians" about what the bible says...their response is basically...they don't care what the bible says because their pastor says differently.
@@SusansRoadLessTraveled praise the father!!!! I heard the audible voice of Yah in 2009 after I was "saved" and I kept praying to him asking to quit smoking. But I never could. But then one morning at work, by myself, the store door locked, I was praying about quitting smoking and his response was "stop buying them and I can do the rest"! I ran around the store, looked out front and out back but there was nobody. I did quit smoking after 22 years...it wasn't easy but it wasn't super hard either! Then the church messages and what I read in the bible didn't match once again and I fell away again. But I thank Yah that I grabbed ahold of me again. What a loving father.
Christ is the Cornerstone and builder of the house (Ben, Son). The prophets and law are the foundation. The Church is the structure, the new temple made without hands. So much of the Tanak has not even been fulfilled by Christ yet. The ceremonial/levite laws are reassumed by Messiah Priest (White robe from Herod) as you spoke of not long ago. He is the intercessor now. The sacrifice (Scarlet robe) was once and done. All is paid for. The Moral law standard was raised and written on the heart and mind by the Set Apart Spirit. The Civil Torah will be applied, by Yeshush, and the Saints, in the Millennial kingdom rule (Purple robe). The dietary laws also promised being healthier than the pagans. The Feasts are utterly Christ-centeted and He shows up in history at those specific appointments. The Sabbaths and feasts are restored under Messiah's kingdom, Zechariah, Isaiah. This is Scripture and "Your Word is Truth"-Messiah. Anyone can read and see this. Man may veer beyond to the extreme, as some neo-pharisees do, but what I have written is easily confirmed by many witnesses in the full council of YHWH. He is our Judge, He is our Lawgiver, He is our King. He will Save us. Blessings.
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree The 10 commandments are binding because they are moral laws. The Civil and Ceremonial and Sacrificial laws have been done away because Christ fulfilled them.
@@John5TwentyFour 1. Don't you mean the 9? The 4th has been done away with. 2. Someone should have told the apostles and Paul who clearly keep the torah long after Yeshua resurrection. 3. How did Yeshua fulfill the civil law? 4. Has loving God and loving my neighbour as myself been done away with them? They are both old testament civil laws.
@@John5TwentyFour yes, sacrifice is fullfilled….. but the categories you made are not separated in scripture, “all the law and prophets are summed up in this , Love the Lord your God with all your heart body soul mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself “. I don’t. See 3 categories there
The comment section is awesome! The church has been praying for a revival for years and when it happens they reject it! The church is fulfilling Amos 8:11 Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord God, “when I will send a famine on the land- not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of HEARING the words of the Lord.
Apologia, would it be possible for you and the channel "Kingdom in Context" or "New 2 Torah" have a friendly discussion at the same time? Sean from Kingdom in Context tried to get Mike Winger on but never could.
1 John 2:3-6 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. Matthew 22:36-39 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” Deuteronomy 6:5 - You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Leviticus 19:18 - You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
I know I will get blasted for this, but one of the reasons I sit at home on Sunday and read my Bible and pray alone is because of something you said (gentlemen) in your video. Most church services are "productions" rock and roll for Jesus affairs, with a light sprinkling of a sermonette. I am not a Dispensationalist or a Calvinist. I would not be caught dead in a "church" (synagogue?) that wanted to put me back under the law of sin and death. The old Mosaic covenant was nailed to the cross and my High Priest Jesus sprinkled his own blood on the altar of the tabernacle in heaven. But this is becoming a thing. I am only here because my daughter came home asking questions about keeping the Sabbath.
So Jesus "nailed the law to the Cross", so we don't have to follow it anymore. Yet He is the Torah in the flesh. John 1:1,14 Rom. 10:5-8; Deut. 30:11-15. Ok
So glad you guys are covering this topic! My sister and her husband and wrapped up in this completely....I think when you mentioned that women seem to be especially caught up by Hebrew Roots teaching I totally see that, I see a LOT of “mommy” groups on Facebook as the door to this for women. My sister started following these mom groups, trying to do natural and holistic with her kids and this plays right into it, because it’s a “return to the natural way God intended” and they lead people who are trying to raise their children to love and obey God down this path to Torah observance. I see a lot of women take this path from mommy groups, to essential oil obsession to Hebrew roots unfortunately.
Do you believe it's because they can not understand the whole council of God. Everything is pointing to Christ. It seems they can't grasp that Paul was teaching not to put the Gentiles back under a heavy yoke of bondage. They are completely unopen to discussing it even. Blessings...🙏
@@aristokriseas6034 Weirdly reminiscent of 2 Tim. 3:6 - "They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,"
Interesting. LOL! I think obeying Torah is right. I see it in the whole scripture. I think we should still go to the doctor. I think healthy kosher food is good. But I run from essential oil obsessions.
Why don't you have someone on your show, that is a Torah Observant Believer? You are talking about a faith without a single person defending that position. You want a debate? I'll debate you.
I was brought up in the church of christ and found that many of their beliefs and 'interpretation ' of scripture didn't always align with what I read in the rest of scripture and being someone who doesn't serve a flippant God and scripture validates itself. A couple of things that caught me early on is ..not one jot nor tittle shall pass from God's law till heaven and earth pass..and ...search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so... I was baptized into the 'God ' family God gave his people a law to live by, when they slid away, turned away he gave warnings. Time and time again he said return to me, my laws , statutes, ordinances, I will be your God, you will be my people. As far as those 613 instructions (commands) they cover love and respect for God, priestly duties, health , food ordinances, marriages, legal, etc. He is our creator, he says don't eat certain things, I say he knows best, I won't eat those things Tzit-tzit ..on the for corners of your garment to remind of Torah. They fall at approx the same place as your pants pockets and any time you reach into your pocket for anything they get in the way (as Torah should) Feast days, the Bible tells we will celebrate God's holy feasts with God in his kingdom (which makes sense) I want to be obedient to YHVH because of my faith in Yeshuah. I dont keep His law to be saved but because I'm saved. I dont know of anyone who believes similarly that condemns anyone who is not of the same belief. Sin= anything against God or God's law. I wish to sin no more.
Guys, Keeping the Commandments means to GUARD them. A circumcised heart guards them and cherishes them. Guarding God's Ways does not mean that you are perfect and do not need to repent. Far from it! We all fall short and need the blood of the Messiah. God's Instructions are there for our good...and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 says they are not far from us - Paul quotes this in Romans 10:6-8. Paul is awesome but the church needs to realize that Paul taught Torah. Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets
Have you noticed that you might aswell be talking about christianity?? * decentralized (lots of different beliefs) * lot of women sharing (so common in christianity) * based on new knoledge about scripture (wasn't it what happened with Martin Luther? reformation?)
Thank you for this! This movement is becoming very popular on women's Christian Instagram - and its funny, because I do know a couple of accounts who denounce what they call the Hebrew Roots Movement, but they still practice religious feasts, some aspects of Torah, Sabbath, frequently reference the Council of Nicea, and call everything pagan (so they ARE Hebrew Roots, still). They are very focused on works, rarely speak about grace, and I don't see a lot of spiritual fruit from this movement - but there is lots of judgement and pride. Praying for softened hearts❤
Sabbath is a commandment..Christ summed His thoughts on the commandments and keeping them in Matthew 5. He said those who teach to not do the commandments will be lesser while those who teach to keep them will be greater. There is a danger adding tradition to law as seen in acts 15 for example. The babylonian pharisees did it and Christians do it even with idols or hedonism i.e. Jeremiah 10 trees or other pagan celebrations.
You spoke well. 6 days to work and then the set apart day into YHWH for rest. 6000 years to toil under brokeness and then 1000 years, the seventh, of Rest. Hebrews 4 speaks of it. Christ is the Substance of it. The seventh from creation was the specific day of blessing. Why? A question all should ponder. As well as "who changed what Christ (sitting on Sinai before Moses and giving the instructions) instructed?" Just questions for a sharp mind to ask. Shabbat and High Holy days shall be restored in the days of the King to come, per Zechariah, Isaiah, Ezekiel. Be the chosen people, the Royal priesthood, the set apart nation.
@@ministrydrummer There is confusion here. Three passages would not go against the entirety of the passages in the Word. I urge you to consider the audience, context and entirety of the passage. Let's start with romans, the context is not condemning the weak in faith. "5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." These were new converts in Rome, some esteemed some days holy above others, and this doesn't even mention sabbath, so we must use exegesis and not isegesis here. What was mentioned were fast days or obstaining from meats and so on. Remember in Romans 3 paul mentioned in verse 11 about circumcision of faith in contrast to the law appertaining to the flesh "Do we then make the law of none effect (torah) through faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law." See also Romans 7:12, "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." In Romans 2:13 he stated, "For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." In Romans 7:22 he said, "For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man." In acts 25 8, when being accusedof breaking the law, he stated "Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all," (Remember the Sunday observance instituted by constantine was not in affect at this time). Verse 6 clarifies what he was saying in regards to both new believers were were in the process of conversion of the new faith and believers who were more established: 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. Here we see accountability based on what we know. We must be fully convinced as what is more important knowing truth or believing and doing it? The same day abraham believed God and was told to circumcise the flesh, he did it though he was over 90 years old. It wasn't the circumcision that made him set apart, no but his faith that yielded it. He was convinced of the Word from the Lord and did it.
Would Cultish be interested in interviewing someone in the movement? This talk was unfortunately discussing a lot of straw men. Maybe part 2 will be better but this series will be incomplete without actually talking to someone way more knowledgeable on the subject. If so, reply and let me know. I can make a connection.
Well the way Cultish works is they interview someone who has left the cults. So they should find someone who is no longer in the movement, but once was. And IMO, someone who was in it a number of years, not just a few months.
You say straw men but they literally explain that the group is not a monolithic group. As someone who has been a part of Lex Meyers church “grafted” I don’t see the strawman here. It was all pretty well laid out and he made sure to highlight that there are SOME who go really off the deep end. Not all.
@@SabastianDuke and the highlights centered on Armstrongism and Seventh Day Adventists and painted "restoration" movements in a bad light. They always want to tie cults back to a man or false prophet with aberrant theology. That part of the conversation which was like half of it was a complete non-sequitur.
@@catcanblue because restoration movements historically are always pushing false doctrine. A group coming along saying that the last 2000 years was all just error and that they have the true doctrine (which interestingly creates huge contradictions with scripture) should set off red flags. Essentially they are saying that the Holy Spirit just didn’t decide to teach anyone that they were in error that entire time, or they just didn’t have the holy spirit altogether. And I don’t think you were following the actual topics of the video clearly. I think you’re being emotional and not listening. They asked him if we had any idea where these ideas originated. So that entire section was highlighting where those beliefs first started. He clearly states that, and even states that most people will get defensive and say they didn’t come from those churches or associations, but that’s completely detracting from the point he was making.
@@SabastianDuke when the answer to where it began starts with people who lived in the 1900s, it shows the ignorance of the interviewee. There was no discussion of 1st century believers and how they practiced their faith after the resurrection. There was no discussion of 2nd century Christians and why some Gentile converts wanted to distance themselves from Jewish-looking culture (i.e feasts/sabbath) out of a sense of self-preservation from rising Jewish persecution. There was no discussion of the anti-Semitic writings of many of the early church fathers. I'm sorry, but the discussion was SEVERELY lacking as to the origins of such a movement that seeks a rebalance towards the first century of Messianic belief.
After reading Matthew 5: 17/19 and 1 john 3/4 I was in shock to see what I have believed in was off .. Nothing more edifying that to have been awoken to the way/truth SHALOM.
👏🏽 This is very much needed! I have friends that are Hebrew Roots that I respect but I disagree with them on certain issues. I haven’t gone head to head conversationally about it because I’m not sure how to approach it but you all took the words out of my mouth! God bless you all!
I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
My opinion Sunday Christianity is the daughter of rome. Half their teachings come from the roman catholic church from sunday worship, trinity, eat unclean, good friday, etc etc Weekly communion. Torah side isn't perfect by no means but sunday church is one of Satan's greatest masterpieces.
I was in it for over 4 years. It’s very much a works based. The problem is that the Messiah already came back and so the feasts and law was actually fulfilled. If the church wasn’t lied to that all of revelation is in the future we wouldn’t have this movement. This movement is also for those that can’t grip the free gift of salvation and want to earn their way to heaven.
Sunday lawless Christianity and her thousands of different denominations is one of Satan's greatest masterpieces, Sunday church teaches the opposite of what the bible teaches.
Are the 10 commandments considered ceremonial law? I can see confusion around dietary laws, etc. But the Sabbath rest is part of the ten commandments that Jesus said we should follow. Hebrews 1:9 also says, 'therefore, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God'.
Elijah and Moses stood by as Jesus was transfigured, the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) these are the witnesses to the truth of Jesus. We need both, the church throws out either Elijah (the Spirit of Prophesy) or Moses (the value of the law in righteous living)
"Go up to the top of Pisgah and lift up your eyes westward and northward and southward and eastward, and look at it with your eyes, for you shall not go over this Jordan." Exodus 3:27 Question: Did Moses enter the promise land at the transfiguration?
Absolutely amazing.... The fact that millions of followers of scripture do no hold with your unbiblical doctrine and dogma means we are all part of a cult? Really? The irony stinks. I pray the Most High opens your blind eyes and softens your hardened hearts. Every blessing. David (UK)
Someone who really addresses the movement, it's beliefs and some of the extreme doctrines within the movement is R.L. Solberg... very helpful, one of the best i've come across pertaining to this growing movement
The reason that you have seen people go down this road and deny Paul and then deny the Messiah is because the church has butchered Paul's teachings as Peter warns will happen in 2 Peter 3:16. They are used to the cherry picked Paul verses and cannot reconcile them to what God said. But when you read Paul in context it is easy to see that Paul taught Torah. He was an amazing teacher and did not toss out the 10 Commandments at all. When Paul talks about the law is he talking about the 10 Commandments? Sometimes! Sometimes not...many times Paul is talking about man-made laws. For instance, Paul, like the apostles, had to battle the man-made laws that the Circumcision Party pushed - the big one being that you must be circumcised first in order to be saved and as we read in Acts 15:1, that was a time where they fought that. Paul, in Galatians, fought that. That is why circumcision and works of the flesh is mentioned 23 times in 6 chapters. Paul is one of my favorite writers in all the Word. God worked through him.
Sin is transgression of the law. Jesus (Yeshua) paid the cost of transgression for me. Threw Him I now see how freeing the law is. Sin is bondage. Jesus freed me from that. If I follow His instructions (law) they keep me from being bound by sin. The law is a righteous way to live your life. If I sin, I have an advocate with the Father. Repent and keep on walking as Jesus walked, because He is in me. The torah (law or instructions) is a pathway of righteousness. Paul taught this very thing. He loved torah, and that is because his Messiah gave it! Read your Bible quit following people and organizations. Read your Bible and seek His truth!!! I am here not to mock or ridicule, puff up my chest with knowledge. I am here out of love and only love. Everything I say is not my own,but of Him who sent me. Sound familiar? Yeah, that's my King speaking. Jesus is in me, and speaks threw me. How do I know He speaks threw me, everything I have said can be verified by His words and instructions. I speak truth because I have the testimony of Jesus (Yeshua) and keep the commandments of YHWH.
Hi guys. I watched the entire episode but didn't hear anything of substance to come against this Hebrew Roots Movement. I am a follower of Jesus and the Bible and do not consider myself to be part of any group or sect I just want to follow Jesus and the teachings of the scriptures. Jesus never said he did away with the Commandments and neither did His disciples. Jesus did say "If you love Me, you shall guard My commands" John 14:15. This series appears to be headed in the direction of presenting modern day Pauline Theology to come against these people. But lets remember Paul was a Pharisee and Peter clearly warned us in 2 Pet. 3:14-18 that Paul's letters were very difficult to understand. I think if these people want to walk like Jesus and do their best to keep as many commandments that's great. Why should I or others come against them? I do know some people who are part of the Hebrew Roots movement and I agree they are extremely well versed in the Old Testament and Hebrew. They are also full of grace and believe salvation is by grace not works. The way you are going may well lead more people into this movement than away from it. I am assuming you will be interviewing someone from the Hebrew Roots movement? Hopefully this series will be about a pursuit of truth and not another Christian denomination turf war as it usually does.
Jesus wasn’t referring to Torah. He quite literally just gave the two commands of the new covenant right before that. Yes I know they were mentioned in the old covenant. That doesn’t mean anything. He is YHWH. He elevated those two commands to the point of the Ten Commandments in the new covenant. John 13:34-35 (ESV): A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
One man in the Hebrew roots said if we say Jesus or God that you are naming satan, he said you had to use the hebrew names of God or Jesus, I certainly do not believe this
Wasn’t Luther and John Calvin rightly trying to return to lost Biblical truth? I don’t understand the older guys point. Wasn’t there a large section of church history largely overrun by the Roman Catholic Church that taught false works salvation?
@@jamietownsend3677 Yahshua ( the one you call Jesus... the letter J is only 500ish years old) followed torah... John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. That word that was made flesh is torah... It isn't the new testament that word is a man made addition it is not in the original text it is one book not two... Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus... And thats not just the ten commandments that many " Christians" seem to ignore the 4th commandment anyways... Matthew 7: 21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ I wonder what lawlessness our messiah is speaking of. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” Torah= Law
@@jamietownsend3677 that is very cliche and general. How do we follow Christ? Vs how does someone only follow Torah? Do Hebrew roots not follow Christ in the same sence your referring to?
Wow, a lot of opinions are shared here but not much scripture. You're opinion won't change my beliefs but the word of God would. At the 54:52 point of the video it's explained what the draw of this movement apparently is. People are drawn to what the scriptures actually say and want to obey them. It is so exciting to see the comments that so many people are understanding the truth about God’s ways. There is a revival! Amen!
Messiah called the Samaritans to ascend to Jerusalem with him after been among them 2 days and they declined they preferred their “Man Fathered” ways of worship and feast, haven’t we learn from this ?
Thank you for taking the time to do this! I have a friend who is still in this movement and who first joined a cult group that was part of it. The leader of that group got arrested and they left it, thank God! My friend still has some wrong beliefs though so I’m praying she comes back to the truth of Scripture.
One of my really good friends is in this movement and has tried to persuade my husband and I into it using videos off of RUclips. My husband and I are believers in the person and work of Christ and love Gods word but it’s been giving me a lot of confusion as she keeps sending me info on the names I should use, keeping the sabbath on Saturday, keeping the Torah, etc. I’m not sure how to address this with her that it’s not what I believe. I’m happy for her that she wants to follow all these things out of the love for the Father but I feel like if I did these things it would be out of works and not faith. Any ideas on how to address this with her?
I don't know you or your friend, so I can't speak on how to approach her personally. If you are looking to understand the arguments better, perhaps some of what she as sent you has been answered. I have a series called The Cross and the Torah that deals with some common arguments. If you have a specific issue, I may be able to point you to a resource. Feel free to reach out.
It looks like my last comment was not saved. Along with BW and Mike Winger, I would recommend a 6 part series by Steve Gregg of The Narrow Path called "The Jewish Roots Movement". Parts 1 & 2 distinguish Messianic Judaism from HRM and therefore Parts 3-6 is what you are looking for. It is about 4+ hours worth of dealing in depth with the HRM core doctrines and of course showing in context how the Word of our LORD disagrees with HRM. He also has some other videos relating to Torah observance but Parts 3-6 is where I would start. I hope this helps!
....Be very careful of what you listen too. I've had a few friends who were not completely sound in the faith...when they start following the Messanic Jews/ Hebrew Roots....they start coming to me very confused about are we sinning by not keeping the Sabbath etc. They start getting very confused. I have to keep pointing them back to Galatians, Romans and Ephesians. Whatever we listen to most starts getting into our hearts. Be firm and strong...they believe they are correct and want everyone to join them. God Bless
@Michelle Cherie KJV why not direct them to Jesus instead of Paul? Considering, as Peter said, Paul is hard to understand and easy to misinterpret. Perhaps Mathew 5:17-20.
Even Apologia would agree with this definition. Yet, they cherry pick which laws are applicable today. There is a big danger in that, especially given Messiah Yehusha's statement about how He did NOT come to abolish the Torah. In fact, He stated if anyone teaches anyone to disregard the least of these commands, that person would be least in the Kingdom of Heaven.
I grew up in the Hebrew Roots movement. This movement almost sent me to hell. I'm so grateful for the truth of scripture & Jesus setting me free. The law was meant to show you your need for Jesus. (Schoolmaster to lead you to Christ) If you put yourself under the law, the grace of God is of no effect. If you are guilty of one part of the law, you break the entire law. It breaks my heart to see so many youtube videos of women wearing head coverings and keeping sabbath. The just shall live by faith. Thank you for speaking out about this cult. It leads people away from the sufficiency of Christ and his finished work.
We literally have an example in the Bible of Israel forgetting and falling away from the laws given by God then rediscovering them after many years.( 2 Kings 22-23) The book of the law was found in the temple and read to king Josiah. When he realized how far they had strayed from the Father's ways and how much sin they had committed, he tore his clothes, repented and removed all the idols from the land and started practicing obedience again. How could you say it's cultish to suggest that knowledge has been lost over the years and is now being rediscovered when we have a biblical example of this exact thing happening?
@@John5TwentyFour Doesnt Paul say the gentiles are grafted into Israel and therefore are Israel? thats why there is no door for gentiles in book of revelation
@@tr889 Yes a true Jew is one inwardly, but Gentiles have been grafted into the new covenant that God made with Israel. The feast laws were for those under the first covenant, not the second. In the same way the Levitical priesthood was for those Israelites under the first covenant, but now under a new priesthood, (After the order of Melchezidek). There is no altar, no temple, no Levitical priesthood because they have been abrogated by the new covenant/new priesthood. The moral law remains binding, but not the sacrificial/civil/ceremonial laws. "For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God." Hebrews 7:12-19 "But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:6-13
@@John5TwentyFour much of hebrews is talking about the covenent of priesthood not that skunks, cats, dogs, pigs, and snake are in the frying pan now...i do agree that many of the feasts cannot be done properly anymore
@@tr889 "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, 'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.' So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." Romans 14:5-19
So, first thing to understand, people like me, in this Hebraic Roots movement, which is the great vast majority, understand that salvation, only comes through the sacrifice Messiah gave to the world. No other way. Period, end of sentence. Then also the vast majority of us presume he, Jesus if you like, Yeshua much more accurately, and we believe he definitely deserves our respect to the degree we Could at least Try to say his name correctly? That it is not too much to try to do. It does not make us feel we are Jewish. We do wonder often if it makes our Christian cousins feel like they are worried about acting Jewish. But when "Jesus" said: "If you love me, keep my commandments." We feel he means, all of them. So how do you determine what they are? Literally All? Hundreds? Have some been done away with? Which ones do we keep? How do we really know? Go with the opinions of those who study the Bible? Really? That's what you rely on? Pick and choose which verses make sense to you? That is scary. We believe that God Never changes, therefore we look to find where his commandments are clearly stated, written as the word of God. And we Try, Try to observe those that pertain to us as individuals. As an example, I am a servant to Messiah, a man, husband, father, neighbor, son, brother, American citizen. These are the teachings "Laws" I look to be observant of mostly. I am not a priest, or a woman, so those would not pertain to me. What "laws" am I able to keep? Worship on the day God said to worship on? Yeah I can do that. Wear Tzit Tzit? I can do that. Follow the food laws? Well, what defines food? But, better yet, Who defines what is food? If I can eat it, and it taste good, then it's food? Is that all there is to that? That is a scary thought. So, if I break even one of the commandments, I break them all? Evidently yes. If I ignore them, I probably also break them all. Yes? No? We believe God will judge us by His commandments. And I pray He will be very forgiving of us all. Those who tried to follow His commandments, even in this day and age, and those who firmly believe they have been done away with, except certain ones, depending on who you talk to.
I was blinded from the Hebrew roots of my faith for years in my Christian churches. Father brought me to his word (without dispensational commentaries to fall back on for understanding) believing and asking for understanding by His Set-apart Holy Spirit. Was accused of following a cult when I was only desiring to do what the whole Bible teaches. I have been grafted in through Yeshua my Messiah into the good olive tree, the children of the Most High, a child of Israel.
There seems to be a number of folks leaving New Age/New Thought as well as the NAR/Bethel and progressive churches - myself included. Many of these folks (a great deal of former female New Agers) have steered into the Hebrew Roots Movement hoping to find pure Biblical spirituality. I personally considered it but ultimately found it to be more of a works based faith. Fortunately, I just found myself a solid Bible teaching church and have been finding that His word is more than enough to set me straight and His atonement is freedom enough.
Amen! You’ve escaped a very dangerous path. Praise God that he’s led you to a church that glorifies Christ alone and not a works based cult that is so man centered
This is exactly right, when you say "his atonement is freedom enough". It is SO tempting to fall into rituals, legalism, and work based habits when its not necessary because it gives us a sense of control and a false sense of piety/closeness with God. But by doing that, we are saying He is not sovereign and His grace is not sufficient. It makes sense that those in the New Age are leaving for Hebrew Roots - they are just replacing one human works based spirituality for another. Both make a person feel special based on what they do.
I feel yall missed the mark here. You said weren't going to characterize the whole movement by a few of the negative outliers and then you did exactly that. It would have been better to bring on, or interview Bill Cloud or one of 119 ministries guys.
People are VERY tired of churches embracing Easter and Halloween and never mentioning Passover or any of the Biblical Holly days ...The Apostiles and the Gentiles kept Sabbath and the Biblical Holly Days so when did all that get abolished? IT DIDNT! Why the big concern if people chose to live as Christ and his followers did?
I have some questions for Y’all: Did God/YHVH exist before time and space? Does the Bible prove that He has/or will change? Did Jesus/Yeshua say that the Word/Torah would cease to exist? Was Jesus/Yeshua Jewish? Did He follow YHVH’s Torah? Was Shaul/Paul Jewish? Did He follow Torah? Please show me using scripture how these questions are/should be answered…🙏
@@thefireofyah8800 - we mostly agree; however, I disagree in your seemingly veiled and slightly antisemitic underlying that todays Jews are not the same people within whom was born to and within whom was educated, lived, died, was buried, and resurrected our Savior, Yeshua HaMashiach. IMHO, todays Jews maintain their status as YHVH’s chosen people. They are our elder brothers under Him and keep (to the best of their abilities) the things of God. We are grafted into them, not vice-versa. They must lead the World to the New Jerusalem when Mashiach returns…🙏
@@thefireofyah8800 - #4 Seems to not address the question head-on… Yeshua was a ‘good’ Jew. He and His Apostles we’re all throughly Jewish. They have been and will always be anointed by YeHoVaH as His people, His children. They are still keepers of God’s Torah and have kept it for us relatively unchanged over all the millennia since Abraham…🙏
I'm curious as to why did Apologia not invite someone who was well versed in the "apologetics" of Torah observance or "Hebrew Roots" movement as they call it but instead invited some one who has a hardened heart to the word of God? The first person that comes to mind is Zach Bauer. He has excellent apologetics to Torah observance like the actual scriptures....
Thank you. Coming to Christ was so hard for me, as my Dad said Christianity was wicked, and I needed to follow random laws of the old testement and read a "halleluya" bible. Because all bibles have been corrupted, and Jesus is really a Roman God not the true Yeshuah, and quotes the scripture "if someone else comes in a different name, you will accept them" and now its the pauline paradox that we all translate the New Testament wrong. Praise God I was not taken down that path and God gave me decrement.
This is NOT traced back to other religiong, SDA, Mormon, etc. It is rooted in reading the Bible and tossing out man-made traditions and believing what is says is Truth. It starts when you go to the Father in prayer and a humble heart and beg Him for Truth...so many lies in the world, so much sin...you tire of it and turn to the Father and He teaches you through His Holy Spirit. John 14:15-17 - The Spirit of Truth
13Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love [c]his brother abides in death. 15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. The Outworking of Love 16By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19And by this we [d]know that we are of the truth, and shall [e]assure our hearts before Him. 20For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave [f]us commandment. thats the commandment follow it. Jesus said love "love one another as i have loved you. but no i want to follow the law of moises.
Believe God. Believe Jesus. Believe the Holy Ghost. Believe the Apostles (including Paul). Believe the Bible. All of these things are more important than "Christian truther" YT channels, I promise. The "truther" movement got infiltrated and took down long ago, before it ever began. Believe God. It's the most important decision you'll ever make.
THEY HAVEN'T READ GALATIANS evidently....I'm just saying, this has been addressed like uhhhhh, 2000 years ago. Also Luke 11 "...you load men down but do not lift a finger..." These people know biblically this is NOT supported, if so give me book, chapter verse" PERHAPS they(hebrew roots) should read the book of Hebrews also, there is another better covenant !!! The word jehovah was a very poor rendering of the LORD/YHWH penned by Raymundo Martini Roman Cath. monk in 13th century.
You clearly don't understand the difference between the Torah and the oral Torah. But this is just you interpreting scripture with a 21st century greek mindset. Consider Jesus' own words. Matthew 23:1-4 NKJV Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, [2] saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. [3] Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. [4] For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Traditions of men are 'laws' what the priests added later (I believe it's called Talmud) The feasts are and were not ever traditions of men. Gods set apart times= moedim
It doesn't address the Festivals of the Lord or whether the Gospel rescinds Deuteronomy 14 and Leviticus 11. Unfortunately our English translations are misleading on the subject and so people ignore the historical context of what Paul is actually addressing.
Krystal, I am amazed at all the opportunities the apostles had to positively TEACH gentiles on feast observance, when to be circumcised, what to eat, days to rest, etc and unfortunately just missed all those opportunities (watch out but here comes Acts 15, 16:3 & 20:16 which are a few of my favorites that are typically used as “proof” Torah observance is “taught” and yet the reason for the alleged observance is explained in the very verse/passage). I was very much in the HRM movement before I actually started reading the Word of our LORD and in context. The biggest aspect that always ate at me and eventually led me out of HRM was (if I was being honest) I had to admit that the apostles did quite a poor job of POSITIVELY teaching something that was supposedly so important for the Gentiles to have and keep.
@@dandeliontea7 It says that to one man a day is special, to another all days are the same. One man eats only vegetables while another eats meat. Not to judge. For what each man does he does unto God. That's the point. If you try and live by the law, you will fail. Only Jesus was perfect and true. He died for our sins and short comings. We need Jesus because by our works we cannot measure up. We need not make sacrifices as specified in the old testament, circumcision of the heart, not the penis is what matters. In loving God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul and loving your neighbor you are fulfilling the GREATEST commands of Jesus. If you want to put your trust in fulfilling law as your saving grace go ahead, but I do not. *edited for typos
@@krystalgoin which again, has absolutely nothing to do with God's instructions. The guy that wrote that letter kept a kosher diet and celebrated the festivals. The actual context of Romans 14 is about days of the week on which to fast (Pharisaic practice was twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays, whereas the early Christians switched to different days to distance themselves from Judaism) the meat sacrificed to idols which some were concerned about so they began to eat only vegetables. It does not mean you can eat what the Lord says is an abomination, or that you can pick whichever days in the year you wish to set apart as sacred time. Only the scriptures define that. I'm going to put my trust in the grace of the Messiah, who redeemed me from all lawlessness and sins committed in ignorance, who has called his Bride to be holy, and said he has not come to abolish the Law or the prophets and that if we love him, we should keep his commandments.
Calvinism is also a secret knowledge type camp that is very patronizing. Reformed theology claims that knowledge was lost from the church, and they restored it (reformed the 'catholic church').
If these guys truly studied and read the bible, they would know that the torah is the word, Moses and the prophet's all pointing to Yeshua the Messiah, who is the word. Either you believe the whole bible or you don't, this is not a new or made up thing. I pray you will read, pray or even fast about this matter, because if your wrong about this, you will be coming against Yah (God)
Well I am a Hebrew roots believer. Love my Way of life. We used to be in churches and xtianity(not trying to generalize) but the mainstream anyway. It was just .. "All over the place". I enjoy Apologia for the way you fight against abortion among other things. Hopefully this will not be a bash fest.
Errors need to be corrected, just bc you love ur "way of life" doesn't mean it's biblically accurate and just bc you have been in bad churches doesn't mean that what you've now drawn to is correct. If you follow Apologia than maybe you will receive the truth from their preaching and teaching.
@@DudeMaccabeus Rome is Babylon, Paul said so! Scripture says we (born again) are true Hebrews (brought forth ones), passing through water! This is the meaning, it’s in the very words. There were some Hebrew that were branches cut off and gentiles are grafted in…a non Hebrew becomes a Hebrew, this is by design. Not because we need to be part of a nationality, but because we are those who are partakers in the covenant , that is expanded not only to the “Jew” , but to all tonges, tribes and nations, by design….have you not read the New Testament?!!! Have you not read the Old Testament!?
@@DudeMaccabeus I did but it just seems like an ad hominem fallacy. Calvinism and dispensationalism are more then just exclusive doctrines, there are doctrines within said theological camps. I was curious if you could point out the specifics and explain why you think they are antichrist? Please enlighten your ignorant neighbors.
Thank you so much for this! One of our elders (in a messianic congregation), has been in a church that focused on their "Hebrew roots". He told us that after a while most of them left for Chabad (which is a religious place, rabbinic Judaism). Even though most of the people in our church in Israel are Jewish people, and we do keep some of the traditions, we always try to keep the gospel at the centre. otherwise, we can't call ourselves Messianic/Christians.
@@krjohnson agreed, sometimes I call myself messianic, and sometimes Christian. Since the meaning of the word is the same, I don’t care really. And I put my foot down when people differentiate between the 2. Especially since there is a wrong term in Hebrew for Christians, people call Christians “Nazarenes”. Which is wrong.
@@amitamsalem interesting, I’ve never heard of that term. In the end, for whatever term we use, we are sinners saved by gracious God through the blood of His son.
So I got 48 minutes into this video and no scripture has been compared or analyzed from the Hebrew roots point of view or the Apologia Studios point of view. It's videos like this that frustrate me. You are a Bible based ministry and no Bible being used. Just like most modern Christian "church services" I've experienced.
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah: * Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3) * Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26) * Taught and observed Gods holy days such as: * Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34) * Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8) * Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9) . Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow, . So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26 . . Paul kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles) . . Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). . After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31). . . Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22). . . Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified. . . That was not the purpose of the law. . . He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus. . . By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV
I have so much sympathy for these people because I can easily see myself falling into this trap. If you have OCD, or a perfectionist personality (or are easily swayed) you can really start worrying if you are doing the right thing. And since you know God gave the Old Testament, why not be super sure of your devotion/salvation by rather doing more than necessary than less than is needed.
While I appreciate the concern towards those of us who practice our faith in Messiah different than you. I personally am okay. None of it is hard when you overcome the initial shock that what you were taught in Church wasn't quite right. And as for me and mine, we don't live much different than we did prior to coming to this understanding. Faith in Christ is still what saves, we just have a few extra practices we incorporate into our walk because we believe that these practice demonstrate our love for the Father and His awesome Son! It isn't a matter of what we must do but what we ought to do in accordance with how we have been convicted. All believers affirm that "If we love our Messiah, we should keep His commandments." The question is ultimately, why commandments does He mean? I am not saying that certain sects of the Torah movement don't have their issues. But it would be silly in my mind to assume that mainstream Churches don't also have their problems. The mainstream Church is just more accepted socially so they are given more grace imo. Blessings.
Minute mark 14:07 references a freedom in Christ to observe some kinds of traditions not handed down to the apostles or prophets (of the bible) by God... as far as I know this teaching is discouraged and condenmed by Paul and others. What scriptural text is being used to validate this claim?
I find it ironic that ppl call the Sabbath "Jewish", when it's first mentioned in Genesis ch ONE. Jews are told to REMEMBER the Sabbath, not institute it. Ppl equating Hebrew Roots to Messianic have NO idea wth they're talking about. Most of these ppl don't understand Paul, (2 Pet. 3:14-17) bc when Paul quotes scripture, they don't bring the CONTEXT along the verses he is quoting! I challenge everyone to explain the apparent contradiction between Rom. 2:13 & Rom. 3:20.
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ean.link/bahnsenu
Apologia is run by Tattoo-boy Jeff Durbin, so no thanks.
Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
The name Jesus didn't exist till the 1600s and the letter J did not exist till 1524...google it... What was his name before that Pastor?
It's called taking the whole counsel of God, not just cherry-picking a verse or two to try to support your notions.
BTW, if you do not know the Triuness of God, the Jesus is God, you are NOT saved, not Born again, because it is the Holy Spirit that reveals that truth to you. REPENT!
--- Isaiah 7:14-“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Immanuel literally means “God with us”).
--- Isaiah 9:6-“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end….”
---"Matthew 1:23-“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
---"John 1:1-3,-“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made"
---"John 20:27-28-“Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”
---Revelation 21:6-7-“And he [Jesus Christ] said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
---John 8:57-59-“Then the Jews said to Him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’ Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple…”
@@Jeffmacaroni1542 How utterly stupid and myopic. Wow, and a "google scholar" at that, which is no scholar at all. Google is evil and shows you only what it wants you to see. If you don't know that, you are ignorant and one of their victims.
By the way, the translation of the Lord's Name has NOTHING to do with anything said here.
But you allowed your own nonsensical, favorite subject to intrude on this discussion because you have no control over your own thoughts and reactions to those thoughts.
Now, try to FOCUS on what is actually said, not what pops into your head... otherwise, you will continue to be an addle brained dimwit who jumps around from one fleeting subject to the next and never coming to the knowledge of the Truth and wisdom.
REPENT!
--YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN
One who is born again (John 3), is drawn and convicted of sin (John 6:44 & 16:8), realizes they are lost and headed to HELL, then repents of their sins (Mark 2:17), believes Jesus is the only way to be forgiven of that sin (John 14:6), fully believes in the virgin birth, sinless life, substitutionary death on the cross, the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-8) and receives the free gift of salvation from the consequences of that sin (John 1:12), submits to Jesus as Lord of their life (John 13:13), removing themselves off the throne, becoming a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) then enters into a lifelong, ever increasing sanctification (John 17:17, Eph. 5:26) as they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord (2 Peter 3:18). Justification--sanctification--glorification or final redemption in the resurrection or rapture (1 John 3:2, 1 Thess. 4:17) ... all works of God so no man could ever boast or take any credit.
--If you've read this far, I challenge you to look up every one of those scripture passages and pray to the Lord Jesus about them.
--This is the most important issue of your life.
I love Jesus with all my heart! He saved me by His grace alone! 100% . I love His Law! I love the Sabbath and wait for it every week! I (and my kids) love the feast days. What a beautiful picture of Christ, who would want to miss out on such teachable moments with their family the kids will never forget. We get to express our faith in memorable and Biblical ways! Oh how I love your Law. It’s all about Jesus!
It should be all about Jesus but after being in the movement for a few years, I left because it became all about Israel!
@@emf49 unfortunately I have seen that too.
@@emf49 90% of evangelicalism is ate up with Scofield prophetic futurism/Israel worship. It will be the downfall.
Just keep in mind what happened in 70 AD; the sacrificial system was destroyed. The temple is gone; the genealogy is gone; and the Levitical priesthood cannot be reconstituted. The feasts have been fulfilled in Jesus.
@@emf49
Thats a sháme the reason for the seasons is Jesús he is the door to Israel (nations) and Judá
I’d never heard a Hebrew Roots teaching or met anyone who believes that way until after I’d read the Bible for myself and started asking my own questions after coming to my own conclusions 15 years ago. It’s been 100% spirit led and what a beautiful journey it’s been.
When people ask what I am, I say I’m whole Bible. That’s enough. The whole Bible is still true and relevant in our lives.
In all these years I’ve been in and around the movement I’ve never met anyone that teaches a works based salvation. I have met Christians, however, who I would consider legalists. I think you can find them on the fringe of every group. There’s also Christians who end up denying Christ.
The two houses are 100% Biblical.
Other than that, I appreciate the loving tone and your honest attempt to understand rather than demonize all these brothers and sisters who have prayed earnestly for more of Him and less of them resulting in God calling them out of pagan, empty, man-made traditions and false teachings and spurred them onto obedience, and a relationship, and understanding and love for the Word they’d never had. It all comes to life and finally makes sense. No extra gymnastics to make things understandable or to fit. Blessings to all as you search your Bibles for truth and wrestle with these ideas. ❤️
I like that! That is what happened to me.
HalleluYAh. same here. Completely led by the Ruach. Deeper and wiser Truth. Its real whats been Happening. My wife came to Accept the good news in a similar belief system as HR, but had never heard of it and had no idea. I just followed the Truth that was'nt being shared by my local denominational christian church families caught up in a lot of mans traditions and have gotten away from the simple gospel and Obedience is better than sacrifice. The ancient ways are shining through finally.
The Word is alive and there are way more books than the 66 modern canon!
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ.
If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar!
--"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
--"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14,
--"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7
--"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
--"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
@@Equalshares Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ.
If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar!
--"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
--"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14,
--"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7
--"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
--"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
You are one in a very, very, very long line of many who are coming to an acknowledgement of Torah 🙂 I am Jewish, I always believed the Christian's taught Jesus abrogated Torah but...I am seeing thousands of you guys recongise it's authority.
Hello Brothers, I am a man who has been a "born again Christian" for 42 years, and over the last three or four years (as an author, through my research), I believe the Lord has led me (by His Spirit) to research the Hebraic foundations of our Christian faith. I have found it tremendously eye-opening and revelatory...in that I was discovering Jesus all through the pages of the Old Testament. Yes, I would consider myself, now, as one who "embraces Torah" as God's divine instructions ("Torah" means "teachings" or "instructions").
As I listened to your commentary on "The Hebrew Roots Movement," almost every negative point that you attached to "the movement" could be said if modern Christianity. Look at the number of denominations, or flavors, of Christianity around the world. Yes, it is true of those Christians who now embrace Torah, as well. There is a wide variety of expressions and flavors there, as well. There are some who appear to be "trying to be Jewish" in the way they talk, walk, and dress (true). Do not Christians do that, as well? You can usually tell what flavor of Christianity a person ascribes to...by the way they look, dress, or talk.
The comment that Hebrew Roots folks are mean, or down-looking on others...may be true in some expressions....but it is not what I have found in the numerous ministries that I have listened to, and partaken in.
Could the same not be said of "some Christians?" Just ask a non-Christian. They would see Christians as those who "think they have found the way...and everyone else is lost."
What was missing in your videos, here, IMO...was the fact that those of us (I can only speak for myself) who have begun to explore these Hebrew foundations have sensed the Spirit leading us (me) in that direction. It would take a long time to share with you the countless times I have sensed the Spirit confirming in my heart the things I was learning by studying Torah and learning the basics of the Hebrew language. Here are a few observations:
1) I have not see, met, or heard a single "Hebrew Root-er" claim "you must keep Torah to be saved." The commandments are merely our guidelines for living...it should be our goal to learn and apply these guidelines....as best we can (but of course, as humans, we will always fall short)...and yes, we still need the "saving work of Jesus Christ" to remove the debt of our sins.
2) It seemed your presentation was more based on this being "a club," "tribalism," "something to belong to that make you feel good about yourself." Geez...how often has that been said of Christianity. What was lacking is the possibility that these folks (most are Christians and have been for years) are Spirit-led...and to the best of their ability, they believe the Lord is leading them down this path. That has been my experience.
3) And for me, the biggest "swing and miss" in your videos was a lack of focus on the biggest draw for me (and many others)...and that is..."If it is in the Bible, it is the Word of God....if it is not...it is not.". Most of the Hebrew Roots or Messianic teachers I have heard and learned from...that has been the foundation they build on...1) What does the Bible teach (the whole Bible)...and is it being confirmed by the Spirit of God with in you?
Yes...some may wear hats (ugghh), or kippahs, or choose to use the Hebrew names for God and Jesus (etc.)....but there are a great many who simply are drawn to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, from Genesis 1 through Revelation 22.
I will say it again, to sum up, almost everything I heard you men point to as "a knock on the Hebrew Roots Movement" could truthfully be said of modern Christianity. Christianity is a very diverse entity. Some expressions are very legalistic...others are exceedingly "grace-oriented" (almost to a fault, as some tend to put repentance and obedience on a shelf...because it hurts the numbers).
FYI...I still attend and am active in my Christian faith at a non-denominational Christian church (have been at this church for the last 10 years). Where I live, there is not a Messianic or Hebrew Roots congregation that I am comfortable with (most of the ones near me are very Jewish in their expression of their faith). So I do participate weekly with a congregation in Tennessee (I live in Ohio) that I really enjoy...called "Jacob's Tent."
Yes...they do embrace Torah and the Sabbath and the Hebrew Feasts (why not..they are biblical), but they do not teach or embrace all of the "rabbinical trappings" as some others do. If you recall, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for enforcing "the traditions of men" (the rabbinical trappings...and man-made rules and regulations). He never rebuked them for obeying (or teaching) the commandments of God....in fact Jesus, Matthew, Paul, Peter, and others often quoted the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets.
After all...."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us..." He always was, He is, and He always will be.
Here is my email...if you would like to have a discussion about my experiences as "a long-time Christian who believes he has been led by God to research and study the Hebraic foundations of our Christian faith."
I do believe your intentions were good....but it seems you were only presenting one side...the things that would paint this movement in a negative light (in your opinion). As you said yourself, you don't really know much about this movement...(it was described as "trying to nail Jello to a wall") and the parts you have focused on are not completely true...as you described them. The most obvious is the assessment that they believe "you must keep the Torah to be saved." That is totally false (although, yes, there are some who might say that...just as the Judaizers did in the NT...and they were wrong too).
I believe that "all who come to God through faith in the One He sent to redeem us (whether we call Him Jesus or Yeshua)...be they of Jewish or Gentile origin....shall be saved. We are all sinners who fall short of the glory of God...and we all need redemption.
But even Jesus said..."If you love Me, keep My commandments."
I consider you men "brothers in the Lord"...and while I may disagree with some of your assessments, we are on the same team. May it ever be so!!
Yours In Him,
Bob Palumbo
(unlockingcreation@gmail.com)
Well said.
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ.
If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar!
--"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
--"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14,
--"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7
--"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
--"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
@@sergeantmajorleeebbs8907 Really? Do you read Greek or Hebrew?
Well, let's follow mens tradition instead of God's law. We get to call what is shit and what is good? Sounds like we're smarter than jesus and we'll make up our own law according to our dictates. Doesn't make since.
@@sergeantmajorleeebbs8907 Shalom and blessings. Calm down there soldier. Romans 10:4. Messiah Yeshua is the 'Telos' of the Torah. He is the goal not the end.
Who is the New Covenant for and with? Churchianity? No, it is with Israel and Judah. The church do not have a covenant unless you are grafted into Israel (Romans 11) Hebrew 8:7. Look at the Greek, covenant is in italics because it has been added. Hebrews 8 is talking about the first priesthood not covenant. Would you like me to go on? Every blessing soldier;)
“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are
planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be
overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow
them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
Amen…come back to the Father through the Son, Who John says Is the Living Word…🙏
You are quoting that passage out of its context to justify the Hebrew roots movement. Let’s take that to its logical conclusion. Mormonism is still thriving so is it of God? No. Should we continue to renounce it and defend the faith delivered by the apostles? Yes, and for the sake of the Biblically illiterate who are being deceived innocently.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 In a sense it is out of context, you are right. The attempts to oppose the people of the Way were physical in nature. Actual physical persecution. Modern Christianity is not physically stoning or lashing anyone from the Torah movement.
But I do believe the Bereans passage is a good one for our cause. Or if we are considered ‘weaker brothers’ the mainline theological proponents should take the advice of Paul and for love of God should show love by not causing us to stumble in what we believe is sin.
@@ShaulTzuar Hello Shaul, I have had three friends get into this movement. None of them had any theological schooling or experience teaching others the Bible. I am not saying that to put them down but for reference as to how they went into it yet didn’t question anything. they began misquoting the teachings of the apostle paul which are my more strongest schooling areas. God did not make the Bible hard to understand but there are basics that any layman can follow and stay in sound doctrine. I have noticed that once someone gets into the Hebrew Roots Movement, all desire to preach the gospel is gone or they begin adding stuff to the gospel which is adding to the blood of Jesus so it becomes a works salvation movement. Many will deny they are teaching works but emphasize keeping old Jewish customs and how they are important when we are under the New Eternal Covenant that pre-existed the Mosaic Covenant. My buddy Mike that had gone out preaching with me in 1985, 1986 and again in 2007-2011 got into HRM. He slowly left our evangelism team. And no matter how hard i tried getting him back into preaching, things like Sabbath keeping became more imprtant to him. He rejected the book of Hebrews’ teaching that Jesus became our Sabbath and also that the Sabbath under the the Mosaic covenant was NOT a moral law but it was A sign of the Mosaic Covenant. There were two signs of the Mosaic covenant to enter in and stay in it. 1. FLESHLY circumcision which was replaced with SPIRITUAL circumcision of the heart. And 2. The Sabbath. Hebrews teaches us Jesus became our REST from trying to be saved by our good works. Jesus did it all and to Him we ALL owe. We are called to good works as Christians of course (Ephesians 2:8,9,10) but you will see in verse 10 that good works is created in us AFTER we receive Christ Jesus’ grace through faith. The Sabbath of course tells us we are to stay in OUR OWN DWELLING and do no work. I believe the Lord meant this for us to spend at least one day a week with the Lord because He knew most wouldn’t even do that.
Basically, these things began becoming more important to the people I know that got into it than the great commission of spreading the gospel. The great commission was not “if you feel like it” it was a NEW COVENANT NEW TESTAMENT COMMAND that I don’t see HRm people doing nor 98% of non-HRM people doing. They claim to keep law or whatever laws they pick and choose from the law of Moses enamored with Judaism and then ignore the new covenant commands. And they don’t even keep the Sabbath and that is their biggie and badge of honor. They leave their dwelling and go to a church service thus breaking the Sabbath. You can’t keep part of a law and say you are keeping it. And Paul said, if you don’t keep ALL you are guilty of breaking all the law.
Also, my buddy began eisogeting scripture to try to disprove that hell is an eternal home and the eternal state of those not born again through the blood of Christ that have not denied the covenant. One can go so far as to deny the new covenant (Hebrews 6, 10) and lose their salvation as it becomes a mockery of the blood of Jesus. I have talked to an HRM person who is now eternally lost and will be in hell eternally regretting rejecting the people God sent to them to turn from this. SEcondly, my buddy started questioning how important it was to believe in the trinitarian doctrine. The thing is if you have a false God, then WHO are you worshipping? Jesus claimed to be God many many times in the gospels through many things He said without saying I am God but He did say to the Pharisees, “…before Abraham was, I AM”. And there are several pre-Incarnate passages in the old testament that are clearly Jesus as the Lord of Hosts. But I have talked to many HRM people that ended up rejecting the divinity of Christ. They have another jesus now. My buddy even admitted to me that many HRM people had converted to Judaism. Nobody seems to know much history. God destroyed the Jews in AD 70 and rescued only the Christians in jerusalem. God also killed Jews in AD 363 for attempting to rebuild the temple under Roman Emperor Julian who the true church nicknamed “Julian the Apostate for coming against Christ’s blood. And modern day Christians are so enamored with Talmudic Judaism, Mosaic Judaism, Kabbalaha and so on. They literally are fulfilling an end time prophecy that says there would be a falling away from the faith or apostasia in the original Greek. They are part of the apostasy.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 Thank you so much for sharing this. I know that you care about those you believe(d) are brothers in our Lord. It is evident that you care about those being deceived by HRM in general.
I have had friends from my normative Christian years become athiests. I have had friends from this Torah movement ‘convert’ to Judaism. I know that there are people from my previous denomination (baptist) converting to Mormonism.
When you stop seeing a growth in Christ and a longing to share the gospel it is disheartening but it is not evidence that pursuit of Torah is wrong for believers.
As they read the Word of God, young believers will begin to try and do what it says. So many times as a new believer when I would try to do what it said, I was called a legalist or was “corrected” and given churchy dogma that was weakly or not at all supported by scripture so that I wouldn’t do what the text said.
Status quo was defended poorly but as a young believer I just went along. Not wanting to rock the boat.
Your experience of HRM is a witness but it is not evidence against the basic theology.
I will never tell someone who loves Jesus not to do as he did. Neither should you, He is our only Rabbi.
We need others in the pronomian movement who will help counsel those going further afield of God’s word.
Pray for those in HRM that they be bolstered against any doctrine that would exalt itself against the revealed word of God.
Thank you again for engaging with me and telling your story. More HRM folks need to know that obeying God’s word does not include being distracted by Kabbalah, lost tribe theories, saying God’s name in a certain way, etc. etc.
May you be strengthened to do God’s will by His Holy Spirit according to His word in the name of Yeshua the Messiah.
ruclips.net/video/Q99OKnlvs9w/видео.htmlsi=6vFmrHIQaNJ3XsPa
We are fast approaching the time of the remnant believers in the book of the Revelation. They are described as having BOTH the testimony of Christ and the commandments of God -- as singing the songs of Moses and of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
Revelation 15:3
And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations!
Are you part of that remnant?
It is completely counterproductive to tear down any part of God's Word. Like sawing off the branch you are sitting on. Some people in any group are trying to work their way to heaven, subtly those who oppose God's law think they are pleasing Him by that work. Oh no. Anyone who obeys the 4th commandment to keep Sabbath can be doing it for right or wrong reasons just as any person keeping the other commands can be deceived by thinking they are doing a good work for God. Satan is tricky. James clearly defines sin as 'transgressing God's law." Be careful. Scripture is actually very consistent: the new covenant is clearly that His Spirit will indwell a believer making that believer desire to keep God's commandments.
Jeremiah 31:33
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your fleshand and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
So this new covenant helps us desire to practice God's laws. He writes His law on our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
It is interesting to note that Christ tells us that the 'new covenant is in my blood.' (Luke 22:2). This is because He is God's Word or Torah lived out perfectly in the flesh, rightly applied to the situations of life. When His eternal Word is central to our being as the core and foundation of our lives, our lives become eternal as the Word in us.
Agreed, well said sister in Christ. Jesus didn't come to overturn the law but fulfilled it.
...Do you believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? And the Tri-unity of God? Just wondering. God Bless...
We do keep His commandments by being found in Him. Not because of anything we do.
@@michellecheriekjv4115
Yes. He is and He will be fully revealed when God's Word is fully played out. Zechariah explained how that is when God's name will be recognized as One.
@@michellecheriekjv4115
Yes, to explain my position:
When people hear that some who follow Hebrew Roots dont believe the trinity, they immediately think that they must be denying that Jesus is God. That is a separate doctrine altogether. Most in Hebrew Roots who deny the trinity would be comfortable with asserting a doctrine of Tri-Unity that does not say they are three separate persons, but rather, that they are three separate witnesses. Scripture itself uses that language under the wisdom of the Holy Spirit who inspired it. This distinction is important because texts themselves explain how the Holy Spirit who indwells believers is the Spirit of Christ. And Christ Himself emphasizes that He is one with the Father. Zechariah clarifies that it is not until Christ comes the second time to reign exercising all authority that their names are One.
In the meantime, Christ is clearly the only way we ever have interaction with Yahweh, either in Christophenies when He makes appearances on earth in physical form, or as His Spirit indwells us.
A cultural reason that the trinity is a stumbling block is because it was used historically as a reason to slaughter Jews and Muslims though many of them taught about the One whose back parts were seen by Moses, who ate with the elders at Sinia, who negotiated over Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham and wrestled with Jacob etc. And who also recognized the Ruach HaChodesh (Holy Spirit of God) but who were not comfortable with assenting to the christian doctrine asserted. In other words, they talked about 3 ways God exists in time and space but never had a doctrine of the trinity. Such a doctrine is never delineated in scripture though the deity of Christ is asserted and identified as a stone of stumbling to those who are veiled.
Yeshua/Jesus will conduct every feasts during the Millennial Reign when He returns - they have not and will not be done away with.
We don’t keep Torah to be saved, we keep it because we’re saved.
AMEN
"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11
Shabbat Shalom!
Amen!
A shadow of the things to come. We dont walk by the letter of the law but by the HOLY RUACH. But if im wrong i accept it and will repent
@@shawn-wr8ux A shadow, yes. Walk by the Spirit, yes. You are right on both of those. No need to repent.God's ways are good. Walking in the Spirit is good. Shadows are good. Get as much good as you can.
Nothing wrong with keeping ceremonial laws that have nothing to do with animal sacrifices as long as you are not putting your faith in your good works and adding works to salvation. I can see why the apostles and the early church fathers never taught Sabbath keeping. When this has become more important than the gospel with Hebrew roots people something is serious wrong. Souls going to hell without Jesus is less important than keeping a ceremonial law?
My husband and I (along with our children) were in this movement for seven years. We are no longer in the movement and haven't been for a few years now so I am very interested to watch this. Thanks for thanking the time to do this.
My husband and I were raised in it, and were starting to raise our kids in it, but have come out over the past two years. I think more and more people in it are beginning to wake up to what the scriptures as a whole actually teaches. I'm grateful for Cultish, Andrew at Beginning of Wisdom, Mike Winger, Solberg at Defending the Biblical Roots of the Faith, and others who are making an effort to understand where people are coming from and explain the beliefs and their errors. I don't think many in the movement would hear them but it's good for those who are coming out or looking into it.
@@MB-vi8zp Glory to Jesus Christ that you came out of it. I enjoyed this episode and felt like they did a very good job of remaining respectful and kind even while expressing their concern over the dangers of the movement.
@@rebekahbrown2817 I agree!
Same! I was getting drawn in about 7 years ago and started leading my little family into it. By the grace of God he pulled me out. I came to saving knowledge in Christ as savior in 2017. HR don't see that Leviticus and the rest of the old testament points to Christ, the one who would follow the law perfectly for us. I see now, that they have a very low view of God's holiness, a high view of self, and a low view of sin because they think that we have the ability to purify ourselves or maintain our righteousness. They see sin as something that we do as if it's outside of us. Sin is our nature, it starts in our heart. Our sinful heart is the problem. It's deceitful and wicked and not understandable. Sooo thankful for Christ and his righteousness.
@@jenniferr7361 ... Excellent comment. I follow a group of them...and it's crazy to me after coming to Faith in Christ that they pretty much ignore The New Testament where we are saved. They heavily focus on The Sabbath and food. What's odd though...as l was reaching out to some....some deny the Diety of Christ....and the Tri-unity of God. Now l see some really do not like to even talk about Paul, or deny Paul completely. It just seems that most are not even saved. When l try posting about Salvation on their pages....Soo many of their followers come and ask me how to come to Salvation. It seems like Satan has his hand in this. It's a huge Stumbling block. God Bless.
I'm Loving these comments!
Shabbat Shalom Mishpaca
Hebrew roots is :
DOING WHAT JESUS DID
not because we can for justification (salvation) but because Jesus is our example.
Sin is breaking the Law. Those that break the Law have never known Jesus 1 John 3:4-8
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.(A) 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins.(B) And in him is no sin.(C) 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.(D) No one who continues to sin has either seen him(E) or known him.(F)
7 Dear children,(G) do not let anyone lead you astray.(H) The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.(I) 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,(J) because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God(K) appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.(L)
Teaching others to break the law has consequences: Matthew 5:17-1917 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.(A) 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.(B) 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands(C) and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Righteousness is keeping the Law (why Elizabeth annd her husband were chosen as John the Baptist parents) Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly
As a definition, we keep the Law because Jesus did. Righteousness is keeping the Law, but Salvation is only through Jesus Christ! After you get saved, if you try to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself (Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18 b) the you are keeping the Law!
The definition of sin, breaking the Law, is taught to show us how to Love God, keeping the Sabbath and his prophetic feasts, respecting his ways like Jesus did. The Law also then teaches us what it means to love ourselves and others! We don't eat unclean animals because that is not what God says is good for us. We also have to know how to love our neighbors by setting healthy boundaries for ourselves and others.
Faith without works is dead! Show me your faith without works, and will show you my faith by my works! (With fewer words)
If faith without works is dead, can that faith save you?
All I am saying is that when you look into it, you are already doing most of it.
I will answer questions! I was a second generation baptist preacher's kid, and knew what I believed as a Baptist. As a Torah keeper, it is a lot easier to know what to do, because I have a definition of what sin is for everyone! In Protestant Catholicism (any Sunday keeping church) you don't have that.
The simplest thing is to just ask Abba Father how He wants you to love Him, and seek after that.
Amen
@@shabbatsongs4801 thanks! I have a channel if you need to chat! Shalom 💖
Hebrew roots movement. Jesus is the torah the law manifested in flesh.
Jesus kept the law, and the law does not change.
Jesus "im God manifested in flesh, and i give you a NEW command, love your neighbour as i have loved you". Thats the commandment, keep it because love fulfills all the law.
"So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His.
Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one may fall through the same pattern of disobedience." - Hebrews 4:9
Amen…we will all come to know the Father and the Son, if we keep studying and allowing the Word to prove out the Word/or word…🙏
Also, Jesus in Matthew 24 speaking of a future time, 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
And, Jesus also says in Matthew 23:1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
DO and OBSERVE all they teach but don’t do as they themselves do because they’re hypocrites.
That's the eternal rest of which the Saturday observance was just a shadow, which they Jews couldn't have. It's weird how radically people like you twist things to mean the opposite.
@@toomanymarys7355 I definitely agree that there is a future fulfillment of Shabbat when we get to our eternal rest. But, that is what makes our earthly weekly Shabbat so special. Plus, it allows us to take a break for 24hrs a week which is a huge blessing to our whole family. Shadows are wonderful to participate in while we live on this earth. Marriage is a wonderful shadow that brings me lots of fulfillment, but also knowing it's a shadow of what is to come. As I read through Acts, I also see that Paul and the disciples are keeping Shabbat the entire time which spans all of Paul's letters that he wrote to the churches. And really, we are supposed to walk the way Jesus walked and he kept the weekly Shabbat right? I think it's ok for me to do it to with my family and know that it is a shadow of what is coming.
@@toomanymarys7355 - sadly it’s the Greco-Roman Catholics who twisted the worship of our messiah out of the hands of the Jews. Our Savior is and was a good Jew. The Father chose the Jewish people to keep and guard His Word. His Son was born within Judaism and practiced Judaism. If we truly follow Him we will follow Judaism with Him…🙏
Messiah kept the Sabbath and the feasts and so did his disciples long after. I wonder why people have an issue with others wanting to walk as our example walked?
Mostly because the apostles boiled it down to abstaining from sexual immorality and from drunking/eating blood.
This stuff gets in the way of the gospel because there is such a propensity toward legalism or adding to the gospel.
@@Dropaprayer what is legalism? I've never seen that word in my Bible. What verse speaks of it? And what exactly do people add to the holy word?
I think it takes the focus off of Jesus’ setting us free from “needing or being required” to follow those things for Salvation in Him. From what I understand Jesus did those things out of respect until He finished it. The question is how do you feel if you don’t keep a feast etc.
@@michaellacourse1013 where is the word trinity? Where is the phrase substitutionary atonement? Where is the phrase imputed righteousness? These are all concepts borne out by scripture.
Legalism is also a concept, and Paul clearly outlines it in Galatians. If you add works to the gospel, it is no longer the gospel.
I don’t think that is what people have an issue with. I think what they have an issue with is the people who believe that is the only proper way to live as a Christian and that all others are either unbelievers or living in sin.
Things my wife loves about following Jesus in the Torah:
1. Matthew 5:17-19 finally makes sense to her now.
We love because He first loved us and GAVE Himself for us. This should be the focus. The love and grace of God is the message of the Bible. The fruit of that is focused on instead in the HRM. Of course those who love Him desire to obey our king. Christians don't disagree with that at all. But let's focus on what God has freely given us instead of the fruit of that. Gods grace and the gospel is the power. He has changed our hearts to believe and to follow Him. And it's an individual process. This verse isn't saying that those who love Him will be saved because of their obedience. We know that all have sinned and we are all unrighteous. HE GIVES US HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. And the result is that we love Him.
@@strykerdawn1 I totally agree with your points. I think King David would too, but he also loved God's Law. He said it "restored his soul." People can definitely get off track on so many different things. There are a ton of things within Christianity that people turn into bad things. But, my main contention is that God's Law was designed with love, grace and compassion as the main teachings within it. To me, that gives me more reason to trust and love God. And also to have more love and compassion for others.
@@t.scottmajor1316 amen. All of the commandments point back to loving God and loving others. We can let the Holy Spirit lead us in that way.
I had no idea there was Christian people who recongised their need for Torah 😳 when I show other Jews this they go quiet.
Since you mentioned Mattityahu 5:17-19 I want to show you a Midrash I always show the Christian people to compare.
Midrash Exodus Rabbah 6:1 states,
"as Solomon was writing his copy of the Torah, he changed a single letter, Yod, to an Aleph. This was in the verse where it says, he shall not multiply wives for himself or else his heart will turn astray. Solomon changed the word "Yirbeh" which is spelt Yod, Resh, Bet, Hey, and changed it to "Arbeh", which is spelled Aleph, Resh, Bet, Hey. This small change changed the entire meaning of the verse, and now the verse reads, I shall multiply wives for himself and his heart will not turn astray"
The Midrash continues.
"Master of the universe. Didn't you say that no letter shall ever be abolished from Torah? Behold, Solomon has now arisen and abolished one. Who knows, today he will abolish one letter, tomorrow he will abolish another until he has abolished the whole Torah"
I personally came to the truth of Torah by simply picking up my Bible and reading it.
Coming out of "Egypt" seems easy compared to removing the "egypt" out of self. Makes sense why youre saying, so many that have left the diverse denominations of Christianity, bring a little bit of their doctrines into the simplicity of Scripture & their walk. The more an individual walks in the wisdom and truth of Torah, the more you'll see those traditions & doctrines fall off.
Jesus was sinless; followed Torah perfectly. We want to walk as He walked, right? There is grace in obedience. Curses and wrath where there isn't obedience since thats where sin lives.. "sin is transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4
We walk this way not to earn salvation, but because we love Him. Faith without works is dead.(James) 🍒 Works without faith is dead.(Paul) 🍇 They go hand in hand. 🙏❤ Salvation by grace *through faith.*
Hear and do; shema Israel.
🙏🙏🙏 Couldn't have said it better myself. And I say AMEN!!
Me too. I started noticing how many times the bible says "those who keep gods commandments"
Yeppur, what we have surrounding us what churches are Seminary School indoctrinated leaders sadly
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ.
If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar!
--"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
--"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14,
--"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7
--"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
--"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
@@sergeantmajorleeebbs8907
Faith without works is dead.
Christianity IS mystery Babylon.
The sacrifice of Yeshua was good for 2 days...2,000 years...any who eat of it now shall bring curses on themselves. A "Todah" sacrifice.
Ezekiels vision of the future, as well as the other prophets, includes a new Temple, reinstated animal sacrifices to cover sin, and the keeping of all Gods statutes and commandments!
Yeshua was a temporary fix, during the reign of Rome, to forgive Israel (Matt 15:24) for being "christian" because of the ferocity of lawless pagans. He did NOT come to save christians from Israel!
You're a PAGAN, stealing Gods name from Israel, and there will be no forgiveness for Esau/Edom/Rome/Mother whore/26,000 denominations of protestant sun worshipers, santa and ishtar worshipers!
You better go read your Bible again, because you sure don't understand it.
I've been into Hebrew roots for years and I have not come across anyone in the movement that actually promotes works based salvation. Perhaps I'm not well researched enough but I have put thousands of hours into my research.. they all say that obidiemce comes after salvation out of love. Yeshua means Salvation, and all of the many different channels I've encountered agree on that. Whoever promotes works based salvation and claims to be Hebrew roots is extremely rare, on this other end of the spectrum they mentioned towards the beginning. I am so glad they mentioned Herbert Armstrong and that history pre Internet! I just hope people who want to dismiss the hebrew roots movement first take a look at how much the catholic church changed traditions and what the early Christians did before they move on. Hebrew roots and mainstream Christian's are in the same family and God loves all of us and gives all of us the same holy spirit :)
Yes, they have cherry picked a tiny part of this stuff and posterized it so they can tear it down. It's called a straw man argument. I'd love to be on that panel just to show them what the Bible actually says. Bling leading the blind. Stay strong, sister!
Almost every one I have talked to does teach works salvation. I see it on their facebook posts. Maybe you are in a rare group of them. Many deny the divinity of Christ. Some have denied Paul as an apostle or reinterpreted his teachings. Some have crucified Christ Jesus afresh and converted to Judaism. Some have lost their salvation according to Hebrews 6. The Hebrews were tempted to go back under the Mosaic law and some just go too far. Hebrews 6 is a severe warning.
RUclipsr A Walk Through Torah QUOTE "Righteousness is keeping the Law (why Elizabeth annd her husband were chosen as John the Baptist parents) Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly"
Her comment is on this video, she has 22 thumbs up, so we are going to pretend that the comment doesn't exist?
@@Power88987 yes. They were still under the Old Covenant. Keeping the laws would not have made them righteous without the daily sacrifices and the Day of Atonement though. They were sinners like everyone else needing a Saviour and His blood on the mercy seat in heaven. Jesus fulfilled all the ceremonial laws. Moral laws are still to be kept by all people of all nations.
Hi Audrey,
I haven’t met one yet that hasn’t. They are trying to live under two covenants and reject the apostle’s teachings, the very ones who established the church.
Many in the movement say you don’t have to keep the ceremonial stuff but your closer to God if you do. They all say if you don’t keep,the commandments you really don’t love God. But they ignore there are different and some of the same commandments under the New Covenant.
Many have rejected the divinity of Jesus in Hebrew Roots and therefore are of the spirit of antichrist according to the apostle of John. Talking to a guy right now that has rejected the divinity of Christ since he got into it. You can keep all,the commandments of the mosaic law one wants to and go to an eternal hell if you deny the divinity of Jesus.
Most twist the words of the apostle Paul and have some passages actually say the opposite if what it teaches and goes against 2,000 years of church history.
I talked to a lady once that literally hated the apostle Paul. She converted to Judaism. She may be dead now and is awaiting eternal hellfire if she could even repent of her rejection of Jesus.
This movement in some ways is way worse than Roman Catholicism. Ive talked to hundreds and haven’t met one yet that evangelizes. Why? They know they can’t unless they add SOME of the mosaic law to the gospel which is a other gospel then. So therefore they cannot obey the last commandment Jesus gave the church and that is to GO AND PREACH THE GOSPEL. There is no such thing as being Torah OBSERVANT. You are either all in the new covenant or trying to earn salvation by keeping ALL the old covenant as Paul taught. You cant keep them all. Men would have to present themselves three times a year in Jerusalem just to keep one of the laws. Hope they have thousands of dollars for those plain tickets and bosses that wont fire them for missing so much work.
So unless I have only talked to 200 or so people that teach some works added to the free gift of salvation because of God’s grace through faith in Jesus’ work and after 7+ years haven’t stumbled upon those who don’t, I don’t believe your statement.
Run from this movement like a Catholic should run from Catholicism if they truly got born again. I have seen so many begin to walk in the Spirit and then try to please God by law-keeping as if trying to merit God’s favor. The very definition of Biblical grace is UNMERITED favor. If you have a different definition, it is no different than the Catholics adding seven sacraments for salvation.
As a Hebrew Roots movement or Torah Observant, Messianic etc follower ( I just refer to it as "The Truth") I could clarify very easily and quickly: We believe that the word of God is Truth. The Torah is Not a Tradition. That the Torah is Tradition, is a doctrine made up by men....which is a tradition of man and a doctrine of lawlessness. Jews during the time of Jesus made up their own traditions in which Jesus was against. We are against those as well! Like washing the hands before eating was not a commandment of God. Like not associating with Gentiles was a Jewish Rabbinical false tradition and not a commandment of God. We believe that what Jesus taught was the same thing that Moses and all the prophets and disciples taught. To be very clear: The Torah is not kept by Judaism currently or 2000 years ago. The Torah is easily understood and not hard as Moses declared. Now, it could be hard if you are a sinner and practice lawlessness. That is a Burden! "Repent and sin no more"- Jesus.
Some claim that we are "works based". We do works as James has declared to us. Keeping Sabbath, the feast days and eating kosher does not in any way give me access to the kingdom of God. We have all sinned and need our saviour to make it to his kingdom. If you tell your spouse that you love them every day but do not do anything to show that love then........you honor that spouse with your mouth but your heart is not there. Same is true with our relationship with God almighty. Like he said: "If you love me, then keep my commandments". Please understand brothers, the deceiver is not worried about converting the heathen but about converting righteous believers into lawless believers.
You said "the torah is not hard as Moses declared." I think we should trust Moses.
@@shannony6558 Ok, then please walk that out. Deuteronomy 30:11-12 For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
By the way, Paul actually quotes this section in Romans as well.
@@RQ_Spartan under the New Covenant, we are no longer under the law.
Romans 7:6 ESV
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
Galatians 3:10 ESV
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”
Galatians 3:24-25 ESV
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Galatians 2:16 ESV
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Romans 3:31 ESV
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Romans 7:1-25 ESV
Or do you not know, brothers-for I am speaking to those who know the law-that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. ...
@@shannony6558 Twisting Paul to your own destruction. Peter warns of this in 2 Peter 3:15-16.
And you completely ignored what I said to your original comment where what the Bible says is exactly the opposite of your claim. John says similar in the NT, by the way.
And Romans 7, that is talking about the law of divorce and remarriage in Deuteronomy...that is why it says in Romans 7:1-2, to those who know the law. Did you know this law when you cherry picked that Romans 7 verse? And the apostate church needs to stop twisting Galatians. The law in Galatians that Paul was opposing was the separation of flesh laws = sacrificial law and circumcision. Acts 15:1, the SAME thing is happening...the Circumcision Party comes in teaching false doctrine that first must be circumcised in order to be saved.
If you want to have a Bible verse cherry picking contest, I could fill up 100 pages from the Bible that teaches us to obey the 10 Commandments and 100 pages of warning against lawlessness. The Messiah warned the church but they have no fear that He will tell them to depart from him b/c they are workers of lawlessness. Rev 14:12 = the patience of the saints.
The 10 Commandments are not instructions on how we can redeem ourselves through our own actions, they are the Eternal Covenant that God made with His People. Personally, I strongly desire to be part of God's Family. This is a circumcised heart. We obey Him b/c we LOVE HIM. That is Deut 6:5 - loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind. And I love my neighbor as myself so that this as a loving rebuke. That is loving your neighbor as yourself spoken of in Leviticus 19:17-18.
Yea, NO! You are deceived and need to learn sound biblical exegesis. Have you ever heard of that? You likely won't answer.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
I urge you to repent before you are judged according to the Law because you have nullified the Grace of Jesus Christ.
If you claim to be under the LAW, then show me how you are keeping ALL 613 of them? Then I will show you a liar!
--"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
--"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Jesus in Matt. 26:28, Mark 14,
--"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." Hebrews 8:7
--"In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
--"“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatian 3:10-14
I was raised Hebrew roots from birth and my mom left the faith when I was 16. We were isolated away from her and forbidden from associating with her, it took annother 4 years for me to get away. It's left me with crippling anxiety and an ED. I'm still in the process of recovery. I really hope you go in depth to their treatment of women and girls there.
Dearest sister. I do trust you are well off in your process of healing and discovering the delight of plain reading of Scripture daily. May the Holy Spirit console you were and when necessary as per Isa 66:13.
Actually, this stuff IS centralized but the reason many call it decentralized is because they are used to the centralization coming from man - an established religion with a set of written beliefs. This movement is centralized on the Eternal Word of God and the testimony of His Son - Rev 14:12, the patience of the saints.
All I had to do was actually read my bible. I figured out that everything that the "church" told me that the bible said (besides Christ's birth, death and resurrection) was false. I had become an atheist because what I was told in church and what I read in the bible was VERY Different. So I wrote all of it off. I have no idea how but in 2017 God got ahold of me and I started to read. Once I read the whole bible it all made sense and lead me to follow Torah. It really surprised me that when talking to "christians" about what the bible says...their response is basically...they don't care what the bible says because their pastor says differently.
Shalom and blessings. Well said. I find it amazing when so called Bible believing christians who say they follow 'Sola Scriptura' question someone who actually does believe and follow 'Sola Scriptura' from Genesis to Revelation, none of 'mans' traditions (i.e. churchianity) and walks it out daily. Every blessing. David (UK)
I am glad you listened to His call back to Him! Shalom.
@@TadYoelLeBlanc Shalom
Exactly.
And they know less than YOU, yet you're the one who is "wrong". Exactly.
A sign of the times...a group comes along and says - "Hey, maybe we should read what our Creator told us and actually turn our hearts in that direction." The end times church's response - "Heretic! Cult! Rabble!!!! Tickle my ears! Tickle them!!!
Love this comment!!!!
Agreed....
Yesssss
But that’s not what you’re doing…
"turn our hearts in that direction" or more realistically "change the path of salvation"
I follow Apologia as I love, value and learn from Pastor Jeff Durbin’s street ministry.
If you are going to examine the beliefs of someone else, why not just as them? Interview a whole bible believer or a panel of whole bible believers instead of making inaccurate assumptions.
Perhaps there is not a centralized “movement” as believers are Spirit led and not led by man. 🤍
@@christineharris8905 for me having almost no previous knowledge of the bible except the usual childrens sunday school stories. So, I read the book of Matthew as an adult, and eager to obey, I searched for Jesus' commandments and wanting to obey his law. A couple years later I was on my knees praying and crying out to God "I just want to know you!!" And shortly there after the dots began to connect when I saw a few 119 ministries videos.
When people say “whole Bible believer” … in reality, they mean “Whole Bible EXCEPT for all the NT verses that say we are not under the law”
@@RandomBoxingGuy I am confident you are not reading/interpreting said portions of the NT in light of the full counsel of Scripture. It is so easy to take the Apostle Paul out of context. People did it back in his day, and are still doing it now.
Crafty Compass We are no longer under the curse of the law my friend. 🤍
Sorry to say, Apologia Studios, Torah is still in effect and will be till the end. It is not a cult. Anyone who does not follow Torah are on the wrong path. Shalom.
Apologia led me to theonomy and theonomy led me to Torah observance, thanks Apologia for helping me see the abiding validity of God’s law today. I’m sure you’ll come along sooner or later. Anyway, practically everything said in this episode could be applied to Christianity in some way or another. There will always be those who deny essential doctrine within any movement. The only reason to ever accept any position on scripture, should be based on scripture, which Torah Observance certainly is. Torah observance is the example of Christ, also the example of his apostles, his disciples and the witness of the early church testifies to Torah observance. To insinuate that this teaching is novel or originated in the last century simply is not an honest assessment. The primary appeal is the biblical witness, which is sufficient.
Yep! Theonomy and Christian Reconstruction are extremely close to Torah pursuance. In fact, it's almost the logical outcome, albeit that theonomy still makes a distinction between ceremonial laws and civil laws. The Torah is a reflection of God's character, it's eternal in its essence. The feasts, or ceremonies as some people call them, reflect the beauty and complexity of Christ and His work in a myriad of facets that Christmas and Easter can't come even close to.
Agreed. All I had to do was actually read my bible. I figured out that everything that the "church" told me that the bible said (besides Christ's birth, death and resurrection) was false. I had become an atheist because what I was told in church and what I read in the bible was VERY Different. So I wrote all of it off. I have no idea how but in 2017 God got ahold of me and I started to read. Once I read the whole bible it all made sense and lead me to follow Torah. It really surprised me that when talking to "christians" about what the bible says...their response is basically...they don't care what the bible says because their pastor says differently.
@@SusansRoadLessTraveled praise the father!!!! I heard the audible voice of Yah in 2009 after I was "saved" and I kept praying to him asking to quit smoking. But I never could. But then one morning at work, by myself, the store door locked, I was praying about quitting smoking and his response was "stop buying them and I can do the rest"! I ran around the store, looked out front and out back but there was nobody. I did quit smoking after 22 years...it wasn't easy but it wasn't super hard either! Then the church messages and what I read in the bible didn't match once again and I fell away again. But I thank Yah that I grabbed ahold of me again. What a loving father.
Christ is the Cornerstone and builder of the house (Ben, Son). The prophets and law are the foundation. The Church is the structure, the new temple made without hands. So much of the Tanak has not even been fulfilled by Christ yet. The ceremonial/levite laws are reassumed by Messiah Priest (White robe from Herod) as you spoke of not long ago. He is the intercessor now. The sacrifice (Scarlet robe) was once and done. All is paid for. The Moral law standard was raised and written on the heart and mind by the Set Apart Spirit. The Civil Torah will be applied, by Yeshush, and the Saints, in the Millennial kingdom rule (Purple robe). The dietary laws also promised being healthier than the pagans. The Feasts are utterly Christ-centeted and He shows up in history at those specific appointments. The Sabbaths and feasts are restored under Messiah's kingdom, Zechariah, Isaiah. This is Scripture and "Your Word is Truth"-Messiah. Anyone can read and see this. Man may veer beyond to the extreme, as some neo-pharisees do, but what I have written is easily confirmed by many witnesses in the full council of YHWH. He is our Judge, He is our Lawgiver, He is our King. He will Save us. Blessings.
Torah observance not to be confused or equated with Hebrew Roots… it’s not the same. It’s like saying your Baptist is the same as your Pentecostal.
"Little children, let no one deceive you (not even Apologia Studios). Who ever practices righteousness is righteous as he is righteous." 1JOHN 3v7
Amen…YHVH commands us/His children to be Holy (walking under His Instructions) as He Is Holy…Lev 11:45
Done. thank you
AMEN X1000
If you love me keep my commandments?
"This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12
@@John5TwentyFour amen! is that supposed to change the 10 commandments or do away with them?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree The 10 commandments are binding because they are moral laws.
The Civil and Ceremonial and Sacrificial laws have been done away because Christ fulfilled them.
@@John5TwentyFour 1. Don't you mean the 9? The 4th has been done away with. 2. Someone should have told the apostles and Paul who clearly keep the torah long after Yeshua resurrection. 3. How did Yeshua fulfill the civil law? 4. Has loving God and loving my neighbour as myself been done away with them? They are both old testament civil laws.
@@John5TwentyFour yes, sacrifice is fullfilled….. but the categories you made are not separated in scripture, “all the law and prophets are summed up in this , Love the Lord your God with all your heart body soul mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself “. I don’t. See 3 categories there
The comment section is awesome! The church has been praying for a revival for years and when it happens they reject it!
The church is fulfilling Amos 8:11
Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord God,
“when I will send a famine on the land-
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of HEARING the words of the Lord.
Thats why the Church will fall. God is about to call His people Out and They will be a sign to all other nations.
Apologia, would it be possible for you and the channel "Kingdom in Context" or "New 2 Torah" have a friendly discussion at the same time? Sean from Kingdom in Context tried to get Mike Winger on but never could.
Yes!!
1 John 2:3-6 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Matthew 22:36-39 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
Deuteronomy 6:5 - You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
Leviticus 19:18 - You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
Jesus wore tzitzits my friend , it's a problem you don't know what they are and there purpose.
I know I will get blasted for this, but one of the reasons I sit at home on Sunday and read my Bible and pray alone is because of something you said (gentlemen) in your video. Most church services are "productions" rock and roll for Jesus affairs, with a light sprinkling of a sermonette. I am not a Dispensationalist or a Calvinist. I would not be caught dead in a "church" (synagogue?) that wanted to put me back under the law of sin and death. The old Mosaic covenant was nailed to the cross and my High Priest Jesus sprinkled his own blood on the altar of the tabernacle in heaven. But this is becoming a thing. I am only here because my daughter came home asking questions about keeping the Sabbath.
So Jesus "nailed the law to the Cross", so we don't have to follow it anymore. Yet He is the Torah in the flesh. John 1:1,14 Rom. 10:5-8; Deut. 30:11-15.
Ok
So glad you guys are covering this topic! My sister and her husband and wrapped up in this completely....I think when you mentioned that women seem to be especially caught up by Hebrew Roots teaching I totally see that, I see a LOT of “mommy” groups on Facebook as the door to this for women. My sister started following these mom groups, trying to do natural and holistic with her kids and this plays right into it, because it’s a “return to the natural way God intended” and they lead people who are trying to raise their children to love and obey God down this path to Torah observance. I see a lot of women take this path from mommy groups, to essential oil obsession to Hebrew roots unfortunately.
Yeah it’s FLOODED tiktok as well. I’ve seen maybe 1-2 guys, and the rest are female
Do you believe it's because they can not understand the whole council of God. Everything is pointing to Christ. It seems they can't grasp that Paul was teaching not to put the Gentiles back under a heavy yoke of bondage. They are completely unopen to discussing it even. Blessings...🙏
100% true. I am living this.
@@aristokriseas6034 Weirdly reminiscent of 2 Tim. 3:6 - "They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,"
Interesting. LOL! I think obeying Torah is right. I see it in the whole scripture. I think we should still go to the doctor. I think healthy kosher food is good. But I run from essential oil obsessions.
Why don't you have someone on your show, that is a Torah Observant Believer? You are talking about a faith without a single person defending that position. You want a debate? I'll debate you.
The Feasts were continued throughout the entire New Testament. And Paul encouraged people to celebrate Passover because Jesus is the Passover Lamb.
Amen…Shaul/Paul was and remained an observant Jew and never taught agains the Father’s Word…🙏
I was brought up in the church of christ and found that many of their beliefs and 'interpretation ' of scripture didn't always align with what I read in the rest of scripture and being someone who doesn't serve a flippant God and scripture validates itself.
A couple of things that caught me early on is ..not one jot nor tittle shall pass from God's law till heaven and earth pass..and ...search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so...
I was baptized into the 'God ' family
God gave his people a law to live by, when they slid away, turned away he gave warnings.
Time and time again he said return to me, my laws , statutes, ordinances, I will be your God, you will be my people.
As far as those 613 instructions (commands) they cover love and respect for God, priestly duties, health , food ordinances, marriages, legal, etc.
He is our creator, he says don't eat certain things, I say he knows best, I won't eat those things
Tzit-tzit ..on the for corners of your garment to remind of Torah.
They fall at approx the same place as your pants pockets and any time you reach into your pocket for anything they get in the way (as Torah should)
Feast days, the Bible tells we will celebrate God's holy feasts with God in his kingdom (which makes sense)
I want to be obedient to YHVH because of my faith in Yeshuah.
I dont keep His law to be saved but because I'm saved.
I dont know of anyone who believes similarly that condemns anyone who is not of the same belief.
Sin= anything against God or God's law.
I wish to sin no more.
AMEN well said!
Guys, Keeping the Commandments means to GUARD them. A circumcised heart guards them and cherishes them. Guarding God's Ways does not mean that you are perfect and do not need to repent. Far from it! We all fall short and need the blood of the Messiah. God's Instructions are there for our good...and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 says they are not far from us - Paul quotes this in Romans 10:6-8. Paul is awesome but the church needs to realize that Paul taught Torah. Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets
Have you noticed that you might aswell be talking about christianity??
* decentralized (lots of different beliefs)
* lot of women sharing (so common in christianity)
* based on new knoledge about scripture (wasn't it what happened with Martin Luther? reformation?)
Thank you for this! This movement is becoming very popular on women's Christian Instagram - and its funny, because I do know a couple of accounts who denounce what they call the Hebrew Roots Movement, but they still practice religious feasts, some aspects of Torah, Sabbath, frequently reference the Council of Nicea, and call everything pagan (so they ARE Hebrew Roots, still). They are very focused on works, rarely speak about grace, and I don't see a lot of spiritual fruit from this movement - but there is lots of judgement and pride. Praying for softened hearts❤
Probably people who have been abused by Christian church. And I mean by the physical gathering not the church of Christ.
Sabbath is a commandment..Christ summed His thoughts on the commandments and keeping them in Matthew 5. He said those who teach to not do the commandments will be lesser while those who teach to keep them will be greater. There is a danger adding tradition to law as seen in acts 15 for example. The babylonian pharisees did it and Christians do it even with idols or hedonism i.e. Jeremiah 10 trees or other pagan celebrations.
You spoke well. 6 days to work and then the set apart day into YHWH for rest. 6000 years to toil under brokeness and then 1000 years, the seventh, of Rest. Hebrews 4 speaks of it. Christ is the Substance of it. The seventh from creation was the specific day of blessing. Why? A question all should ponder. As well as "who changed what Christ (sitting on Sinai before Moses and giving the instructions) instructed?" Just questions for a sharp mind to ask. Shabbat and High Holy days shall be restored in the days of the King to come, per Zechariah, Isaiah, Ezekiel. Be the chosen people, the Royal priesthood, the set apart nation.
The New Testament clearly states that we need not observe the Sabbath (Romans 14:5; Galatians 4:9-11; Colossians 2:14-17).
@@ministrydrummer There is confusion here. Three passages would not go against the entirety of the passages in the Word. I urge you to consider the audience, context and entirety of the passage. Let's start with romans, the context is not condemning the weak in faith.
"5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."
These were new converts in Rome, some esteemed some days holy above others, and this doesn't even mention sabbath, so we must use exegesis and not isegesis here. What was mentioned were fast days or obstaining from meats and so on.
Remember in Romans 3 paul mentioned in verse 11 about circumcision of faith in contrast to the law appertaining to the flesh "Do we then make the law of none effect (torah) through faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law." See also Romans 7:12, "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." In Romans 2:13 he stated, "For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." In Romans 7:22 he said, "For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man." In acts 25 8, when being accusedof breaking the law, he stated "Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all," (Remember the Sunday observance instituted by constantine was not in affect at this time).
Verse 6 clarifies what he was saying in regards to both new believers were were in the process of conversion of the new faith and believers who were more established:
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Here we see accountability based on what we know. We must be fully convinced as what is more important knowing truth or believing and doing it? The same day abraham believed God and was told to circumcise the flesh, he did it though he was over 90 years old. It wasn't the circumcision that made him set apart, no but his faith that yielded it. He was convinced of the Word from the Lord and did it.
And THANK YOU for finally covering this!
I appreciated the opportunity to get this conversation going. Thanks guys.
Would Cultish be interested in interviewing someone in the movement? This talk was unfortunately discussing a lot of straw men. Maybe part 2 will be better but this series will be incomplete without actually talking to someone way more knowledgeable on the subject. If so, reply and let me know. I can make a connection.
Well the way Cultish works is they interview someone who has left the cults. So they should find someone who is no longer in the movement, but once was. And IMO, someone who was in it a number of years, not just a few months.
You say straw men but they literally explain that the group is not a monolithic group.
As someone who has been a part of Lex Meyers church “grafted” I don’t see the strawman here. It was all pretty well laid out and he made sure to highlight that there are SOME who go really off the deep end. Not all.
@@SabastianDuke and the highlights centered on Armstrongism and Seventh Day Adventists and painted "restoration" movements in a bad light. They always want to tie cults back to a man or false prophet with aberrant theology. That part of the conversation which was like half of it was a complete non-sequitur.
@@catcanblue because restoration movements historically are always pushing false doctrine.
A group coming along saying that the last 2000 years was all just error and that they have the true doctrine (which interestingly creates huge contradictions with scripture) should set off red flags.
Essentially they are saying that the Holy Spirit just didn’t decide to teach anyone that they were in error that entire time, or they just didn’t have the holy spirit altogether.
And I don’t think you were following the actual topics of the video clearly. I think you’re being emotional and not listening.
They asked him if we had any idea where these ideas originated. So that entire section was highlighting where those beliefs first started. He clearly states that, and even states that most people will get defensive and say they didn’t come from those churches or associations, but that’s completely detracting from the point he was making.
@@SabastianDuke when the answer to where it began starts with people who lived in the 1900s, it shows the ignorance of the interviewee. There was no discussion of 1st century believers and how they practiced their faith after the resurrection. There was no discussion of 2nd century Christians and why some Gentile converts wanted to distance themselves from Jewish-looking culture (i.e feasts/sabbath) out of a sense of self-preservation from rising Jewish persecution. There was no discussion of the anti-Semitic writings of many of the early church fathers. I'm sorry, but the discussion was SEVERELY lacking as to the origins of such a movement that seeks a rebalance towards the first century of Messianic belief.
After reading Matthew 5: 17/19 and 1 john 3/4 I was in shock to see what I have believed in was off ..
Nothing more edifying that to have been awoken to the way/truth SHALOM.
👏🏽 This is very much needed! I have friends that are Hebrew Roots that I respect but I disagree with them on certain issues. I haven’t gone head to head conversationally about it because I’m not sure how to approach it but you all took the words out of my mouth! God bless you all!
I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
Do you feel the same way about Messianic Judaism?
My opinion Sunday Christianity is the daughter of rome. Half their teachings come from the roman catholic church from sunday worship, trinity, eat unclean, good friday, etc etc Weekly communion. Torah side isn't perfect by no means but sunday church is one of Satan's greatest masterpieces.
I was in it for over 4 years. It’s very much a works based. The problem is that the Messiah already came back and so the feasts and law was actually fulfilled. If the church wasn’t lied to that all of revelation is in the future we wouldn’t have this movement. This movement is also for those that can’t grip the free gift of salvation and want to earn their way to heaven.
Sunday lawless Christianity and her thousands of different denominations is one of Satan's greatest masterpieces, Sunday church teaches the opposite of what the bible teaches.
Are the 10 commandments considered ceremonial law? I can see confusion around dietary laws, etc. But the Sabbath rest is part of the ten commandments that Jesus said we should follow. Hebrews 1:9 also says, 'therefore, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God'.
Christians keep the Fourth Commandment. God changed the Christian sabbath to Sunday, as evidenced in the New Testament.
@@slash903 really? Where? Reference?
Elijah and Moses stood by as Jesus was transfigured, the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) these are the witnesses to the truth of Jesus. We need both, the church throws out either Elijah (the Spirit of Prophesy) or Moses (the value of the law in righteous living)
"Go up to the top of Pisgah and lift up your eyes westward and northward and southward and eastward, and look at it with your eyes, for you shall not go over this Jordan." Exodus 3:27
Question: Did Moses enter the promise land at the transfiguration?
@@John5TwentyFour he was already in the promised land because he was standing in Yeshua’s Presence
Absolutely amazing.... The fact that millions of followers of scripture do no hold with your unbiblical doctrine and dogma means we are all part of a cult? Really? The irony stinks. I pray the Most High opens your blind eyes and softens your hardened hearts. Every blessing. David (UK)
Someone who really addresses the movement, it's beliefs and some of the extreme doctrines within the movement is R.L. Solberg... very helpful, one of the best i've come across pertaining to this growing movement
The reason that you have seen people go down this road and deny Paul and then deny the Messiah is because the church has butchered Paul's teachings as Peter warns will happen in 2 Peter 3:16. They are used to the cherry picked Paul verses and cannot reconcile them to what God said. But when you read Paul in context it is easy to see that Paul taught Torah. He was an amazing teacher and did not toss out the 10 Commandments at all. When Paul talks about the law is he talking about the 10 Commandments? Sometimes! Sometimes not...many times Paul is talking about man-made laws. For instance, Paul, like the apostles, had to battle the man-made laws that the Circumcision Party pushed - the big one being that you must be circumcised first in order to be saved and as we read in Acts 15:1, that was a time where they fought that. Paul, in Galatians, fought that. That is why circumcision and works of the flesh is mentioned 23 times in 6 chapters. Paul is one of my favorite writers in all the Word. God worked through him.
Sin is transgression of the law. Jesus (Yeshua) paid the cost of transgression for me. Threw Him I now see how freeing the law is. Sin is bondage. Jesus freed me from that. If I follow His instructions (law) they keep me from being bound by sin. The law is a righteous way to live your life. If I sin, I have an advocate with the Father. Repent and keep on walking as Jesus walked, because He is in me. The torah (law or instructions) is a pathway of righteousness. Paul taught this very thing. He loved torah, and that is because his Messiah gave it! Read your Bible quit following people and organizations. Read your Bible and seek His truth!!!
I am here not to mock or ridicule, puff up my chest with knowledge. I am here out of love and only love. Everything I say is not my own,but of Him who sent me. Sound familiar? Yeah, that's my King speaking. Jesus is in me, and speaks threw me. How do I know He speaks threw me, everything I have said can be verified by His words and instructions. I speak truth because I have the testimony of Jesus (Yeshua) and keep the commandments of YHWH.
Hi guys. I watched the entire episode but didn't hear anything of substance to come against this Hebrew Roots Movement. I am a follower of Jesus and the Bible and do not consider myself to be part of any group or sect I just want to follow Jesus and the teachings of the scriptures. Jesus never said he did away with the Commandments and neither did His disciples. Jesus did say "If you love Me, you shall guard My commands" John 14:15. This series appears to be headed in the direction of presenting modern day Pauline Theology to come against these people. But lets remember Paul was a Pharisee and Peter clearly warned us in 2 Pet. 3:14-18 that Paul's letters were very difficult to understand. I think if these people want to walk like Jesus and do their best to keep as many commandments that's great. Why should I or others come against them? I do know some people who are part of the Hebrew Roots movement and I agree they are extremely well versed in the Old Testament and Hebrew. They are also full of grace and believe salvation is by grace not works. The way you are going may well lead more people into this movement than away from it. I am assuming you will be interviewing someone from the Hebrew Roots movement? Hopefully this series will be about a pursuit of truth and not another Christian denomination turf war as it usually does.
Jesus wasn’t referring to Torah.
He quite literally just gave the two commands of the new covenant right before that.
Yes I know they were mentioned in the old covenant. That doesn’t mean anything. He is YHWH. He elevated those two commands to the point of the Ten Commandments in the new covenant.
John 13:34-35 (ESV): A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
One man in the Hebrew roots said if we say Jesus or God that you are naming satan, he said you had to use the hebrew names of God or Jesus, I certainly do not believe this
Wasn’t Luther and John Calvin rightly trying to return to lost Biblical truth? I don’t understand the older guys point. Wasn’t there a large section of church history largely overrun by the Roman Catholic Church that taught false works salvation?
Yep…the Greco-Romans twisted Yeshua into Jesus to rip Him away from His Messianic Judaism…😢
I've been waiting for this!!!
WhTs the difference between a Hebrew roots person and a Christian?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree Christians follow Jesus. HR follow Torah.
@@jamietownsend3677 Yahshua ( the one you call Jesus... the letter J is only 500ish years old) followed torah...
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. That word that was made flesh is torah... It isn't the new testament that word is a man made addition it is not in the original text it is one book not two...
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus... And thats not just the ten commandments that many " Christians" seem to ignore the 4th commandment anyways...
Matthew 7: 21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I wonder what lawlessness our messiah is speaking of.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” Torah= Law
@@jamietownsend3677 that is very cliche and general. How do we follow Christ? Vs how does someone only follow Torah? Do Hebrew roots not follow Christ in the same sence your referring to?
@@tkordik tell that to the Lamb of God
Wow, a lot of opinions are shared here but not much scripture. You're opinion won't change my beliefs but the word of God would.
At the 54:52 point of the video it's explained what the draw of this movement apparently is. People are drawn to what the scriptures actually say and want to obey them.
It is so exciting to see the comments that so many people are understanding the truth about God’s ways. There is a revival! Amen!
Messiah called the Samaritans to ascend to Jerusalem with him after been among them 2 days and they declined they preferred their “Man Fathered” ways of worship and feast, haven’t we learn from this ?
Thank you for taking the time to do this! I have a friend who is still in this movement and who first joined a cult group that was part of it. The leader of that group got arrested and they left it, thank God! My friend still has some wrong beliefs though so I’m praying she comes back to the truth of Scripture.
One of my really good friends is in this movement and has tried to persuade my husband and I into it using videos off of RUclips. My husband and I are believers in the person and work of Christ and love Gods word but it’s been giving me a lot of confusion as she keeps sending me info on the names I should use, keeping the sabbath on Saturday, keeping the Torah, etc. I’m not sure how to address this with her that it’s not what I believe. I’m happy for her that she wants to follow all these things out of the love for the Father but I feel like if I did these things it would be out of works and not faith. Any ideas on how to address this with her?
I don't know you or your friend, so I can't speak on how to approach her personally. If you are looking to understand the arguments better, perhaps some of what she as sent you has been answered. I have a series called The Cross and the Torah that deals with some common arguments. If you have a specific issue, I may be able to point you to a resource. Feel free to reach out.
Yes. I second what bw said.
It looks like my last comment was not saved. Along with BW and Mike Winger, I would recommend a 6 part series by Steve Gregg of The Narrow Path called "The Jewish Roots Movement". Parts 1 & 2 distinguish Messianic Judaism from HRM and therefore Parts 3-6 is what you are looking for. It is about 4+ hours worth of dealing in depth with the HRM core doctrines and of course showing in context how the Word of our LORD disagrees with HRM. He also has some other videos relating to Torah observance but Parts 3-6 is where I would start. I hope this helps!
....Be very careful of what you listen too. I've had a few friends who were not completely sound in the faith...when they start following the Messanic Jews/ Hebrew Roots....they start coming to me very confused about are we sinning by not keeping the Sabbath etc. They start getting very confused. I have to keep pointing them back to Galatians, Romans and Ephesians. Whatever we listen to most starts getting into our hearts. Be firm and strong...they believe they are correct and want everyone to join them. God Bless
@Michelle Cherie KJV why not direct them to Jesus instead of Paul? Considering, as Peter said, Paul is hard to understand and easy to misinterpret. Perhaps Mathew 5:17-20.
What is sin then? The new testament tells us that it is transgression of the law.
Even Apologia would agree with this definition. Yet, they cherry pick which laws are applicable today. There is a big danger in that, especially given Messiah Yehusha's statement about how He did NOT come to abolish the Torah. In fact, He stated if anyone teaches anyone to disregard the least of these commands, that person would be least in the Kingdom of Heaven.
I grew up in the Hebrew Roots movement. This movement almost sent me to hell. I'm so grateful for the truth of scripture & Jesus setting me free. The law was meant to show you your need for Jesus. (Schoolmaster to lead you to Christ) If you put yourself under the law, the grace of God is of no effect. If you are guilty of one part of the law, you break the entire law. It breaks my heart to see so many youtube videos of women wearing head coverings and keeping sabbath. The just shall live by faith. Thank you for speaking out about this cult. It leads people away from the sufficiency of Christ and his finished work.
We literally have an example in the Bible of Israel forgetting and falling away from the laws given by God then rediscovering them after many years.( 2 Kings 22-23)
The book of the law was found in the temple and read to king Josiah. When he realized how far they had strayed from the Father's ways and how much sin they had committed, he tore his clothes, repented and removed all the idols from the land and started practicing obedience again. How could you say it's cultish to suggest that knowledge has been lost over the years and is now being rediscovered when we have a biblical example of this exact thing happening?
I bring this one up a lot too. Great point.
Adonai tells us in the Torah, which “festivals” are required to be carried out. He’s very clear on them. That’s not tradition that’s obedience.
Required by who?
"The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them..." Leviticus 23:1-2
Context is important.
@@John5TwentyFour Doesnt Paul say the gentiles are grafted into Israel and therefore are Israel? thats why there is no door for gentiles in book of revelation
@@tr889 Yes a true Jew is one inwardly, but Gentiles have been grafted into the new covenant that God made with Israel.
The feast laws were for those under the first covenant, not the second. In the same way the Levitical priesthood was for those Israelites under the first covenant, but now under a new priesthood, (After the order of Melchezidek). There is no altar, no temple, no Levitical priesthood because they have been abrogated by the new covenant/new priesthood. The moral law remains binding, but not the sacrificial/civil/ceremonial laws.
"For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:12-19
"But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
Hebrews 8:6-13
@@John5TwentyFour much of hebrews is talking about the covenent of priesthood not that skunks, cats, dogs, pigs, and snake are in the frying pan now...i do agree that many of the feasts cannot be done properly anymore
@@tr889 "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written,
'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.'
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." Romans 14:5-19
So, first thing to understand, people like me, in this Hebraic Roots movement, which is the great vast majority, understand that salvation, only comes through the sacrifice Messiah gave to the world. No other way. Period, end of sentence.
Then also the vast majority of us presume he, Jesus if you like, Yeshua much more accurately, and we believe he definitely deserves our respect to the degree we Could at least Try to say his name correctly? That it is not too much to try to do. It does not make us feel we are Jewish. We do wonder often if it makes our Christian cousins feel like they are worried about acting Jewish.
But when "Jesus" said: "If you love me, keep my commandments." We feel he means, all of them. So how do you determine what they are? Literally All? Hundreds? Have some been done away with? Which ones do we keep? How do we really know? Go with the opinions of those who study the Bible? Really? That's what you rely on? Pick and choose which verses make sense to you? That is scary.
We believe that God Never changes, therefore we look to find where his commandments are clearly stated, written as the word of God.
And we Try, Try to observe those that pertain to us as individuals. As an example, I am a servant to Messiah, a man, husband, father, neighbor, son, brother, American citizen. These are the teachings "Laws" I look to be observant of mostly. I am not a priest, or a woman, so those would not pertain to me. What "laws" am I able to keep? Worship on the day God said to worship on? Yeah I can do that. Wear Tzit Tzit? I can do that. Follow the food laws? Well, what defines food? But, better yet, Who defines what is food? If I can eat it, and it taste good, then it's food? Is that all there is to that? That is a scary thought.
So, if I break even one of the commandments, I break them all? Evidently yes. If I ignore them, I probably also break them all. Yes? No?
We believe God will judge us by His commandments. And I pray He will be very forgiving of us all. Those who tried to follow His commandments, even in this day and age, and those who firmly believe they have been done away with, except certain ones, depending on who you talk to.
I was blinded from the Hebrew roots of my faith for years in my Christian churches. Father brought me to his word (without dispensational commentaries to fall back on for understanding) believing and asking for understanding by His Set-apart Holy Spirit. Was accused of following a cult when I was only desiring to do what the whole Bible teaches. I have been grafted in through Yeshua my Messiah into the good olive tree, the children of the Most High, a child of Israel.
There seems to be a number of folks leaving New Age/New Thought as well as the NAR/Bethel and progressive churches - myself included. Many of these folks (a great deal of former female New Agers) have steered into the Hebrew Roots Movement hoping to find pure Biblical spirituality. I personally considered it but ultimately found it to be more of a works based faith. Fortunately, I just found myself a solid Bible teaching church and have been finding that His word is more than enough to set me straight and His atonement is freedom enough.
Amen! You’ve escaped a very dangerous path. Praise God that he’s led you to a church that glorifies Christ alone and not a works based cult that is so man centered
The same happened to me!
from the outside observing, its attracting a lot of new agers, NAR, and charismatic. I agree.
This is exactly right, when you say "his atonement is freedom enough". It is SO tempting to fall into rituals, legalism, and work based habits when its not necessary because it gives us a sense of control and a false sense of piety/closeness with God. But by doing that, we are saying He is not sovereign and His grace is not sufficient. It makes sense that those in the New Age are leaving for Hebrew Roots - they are just replacing one human works based spirituality for another. Both make a person feel special based on what they do.
I feel yall missed the mark here. You said weren't going to characterize the whole movement by a few of the negative outliers and then you did exactly that. It would have been better to bring on, or interview Bill Cloud or one of 119 ministries guys.
People are VERY tired of churches embracing Easter and Halloween and never mentioning Passover or any of the Biblical Holly days ...The Apostiles and the Gentiles kept Sabbath and the Biblical Holly Days so when did all that get abolished? IT DIDNT! Why the big concern if people chose to live as Christ and his followers did?
It's about being Obedient that most don't even wanna be, truly sad,... Shalom to all my Natsarim brothers and sister in Yahuah through Yahusha
Greetings ! :)
Shabbat Shalom!
I have some questions for Y’all:
Did God/YHVH exist before time and space?
Does the Bible prove that He has/or will change?
Did Jesus/Yeshua say that the Word/Torah would cease to exist?
Was Jesus/Yeshua Jewish?
Did He follow YHVH’s Torah?
Was Shaul/Paul Jewish?
Did He follow Torah?
Please show me using scripture how these questions are/should be answered…🙏
@@thefireofyah8800 - we mostly agree; however, I disagree in your seemingly veiled and slightly antisemitic underlying that todays Jews are not the same people within whom was born to and within whom was educated, lived, died, was buried, and resurrected our Savior, Yeshua HaMashiach.
IMHO, todays Jews maintain their status as YHVH’s chosen people. They are our elder brothers under Him and keep (to the best of their abilities) the things of God. We are grafted into them, not vice-versa. They must lead the World to the New Jerusalem when Mashiach returns…🙏
@@thefireofyah8800 - #4
Seems to not address the question head-on…
Yeshua was a ‘good’ Jew. He and His Apostles we’re all throughly Jewish.
They have been and will always be anointed by YeHoVaH as His people, His children.
They are still keepers of God’s Torah and have kept it for us relatively unchanged over all the millennia since Abraham…🙏
I'm curious as to why did Apologia not invite someone who was well versed in the "apologetics" of Torah observance or "Hebrew Roots" movement as they call it but instead invited some one who has a hardened heart to the word of God? The first person that comes to mind is Zach Bauer. He has excellent apologetics to Torah observance like the actual scriptures....
Thank you. Coming to Christ was so hard for me, as my Dad said Christianity was wicked, and I needed to follow random laws of the old testement and read a "halleluya" bible. Because all bibles have been corrupted, and Jesus is really a Roman God not the true Yeshuah, and quotes the scripture "if someone else comes in a different name, you will accept them" and now its the pauline paradox that we all translate the New Testament wrong. Praise God I was not taken down that path and God gave me decrement.
I praise God with you!
Thank for Lord! What a wonderful testimony.
This is NOT traced back to other religiong, SDA, Mormon, etc. It is rooted in reading the Bible and tossing out man-made traditions and believing what is says is Truth. It starts when you go to the Father in prayer and a humble heart and beg Him for Truth...so many lies in the world, so much sin...you tire of it and turn to the Father and He teaches you through His Holy Spirit. John 14:15-17 - The Spirit of Truth
13Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love [c]his brother abides in death. 15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
The Outworking of Love
16By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19And by this we [d]know that we are of the truth, and shall [e]assure our hearts before Him. 20For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave [f]us commandment.
thats the commandment follow it. Jesus said love "love one another as i have loved you. but no i want to follow the law of moises.
The LORD Jesus Christ should receive ALL the glory ---nothing else
Believe God. Believe Jesus. Believe the Holy Ghost. Believe the Apostles (including Paul). Believe the Bible. All of these things are more important than "Christian truther" YT channels, I promise. The "truther" movement got infiltrated and took down long ago, before it ever began. Believe God. It's the most important decision you'll ever make.
Well said
Canon 38 (Council of Laodicea)
It is not lawful to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety.
Sadly the Greco-Roman’s did a number on our church
Excited to hear this series... Very much needed.
THEY HAVEN'T READ GALATIANS evidently....I'm just saying, this has been addressed like uhhhhh, 2000 years ago. Also Luke 11 "...you load men down but do not lift a finger..." These people know biblically this is NOT supported, if so give me book, chapter verse" PERHAPS they(hebrew roots) should read the book of Hebrews also, there is another better covenant !!! The word jehovah was a very poor rendering of the LORD/YHWH penned by Raymundo Martini Roman Cath. monk in 13th century.
You clearly don't understand the difference between the Torah and the oral Torah. But this is just you interpreting scripture with a 21st century greek mindset. Consider Jesus' own words.
Matthew 23:1-4 NKJV
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, [2] saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. [3] Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. [4] For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Yes I have read Galatians and Hebrews...John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments"
Traditions of men are 'laws' what the priests added later (I believe it's called Talmud)
The feasts are and were not ever traditions of men.
Gods set apart times= moedim
Roman's chapter 14 read it. It addresses special days, food, disputable matters. Etc.
It doesn't address the Festivals of the Lord or whether the Gospel rescinds Deuteronomy 14 and Leviticus 11. Unfortunately our English translations are misleading on the subject and so people ignore the historical context of what Paul is actually addressing.
Krystal, I am amazed at all the opportunities the apostles had to positively TEACH gentiles on feast observance, when to be circumcised, what to eat, days to rest, etc and unfortunately just missed all those opportunities (watch out but here comes Acts 15, 16:3 & 20:16 which are a few of my favorites that are typically used as “proof” Torah observance is “taught” and yet the reason for the alleged observance is explained in the very verse/passage). I was very much in the HRM movement before I actually started reading the Word of our LORD and in context. The biggest aspect that always ate at me and eventually led me out of HRM was (if I was being honest) I had to admit that the apostles did quite a poor job of POSITIVELY teaching something that was supposedly so important for the Gentiles to have and keep.
@@dandeliontea7 It says that to one man a day is special, to another all days are the same. One man eats only vegetables while another eats meat. Not to judge. For what each man does he does unto God. That's the point. If you try and live by the law, you will fail. Only Jesus was perfect and true. He died for our sins and short comings. We need Jesus because by our works we cannot measure up. We need not make sacrifices as specified in the old testament, circumcision of the heart, not the penis is what matters. In loving God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul and loving your neighbor you are fulfilling the GREATEST commands of Jesus. If you want to put your trust in fulfilling law as your saving grace go ahead, but I do not.
*edited for typos
@@krystalgoin which again, has absolutely nothing to do with God's instructions. The guy that wrote that letter kept a kosher diet and celebrated the festivals.
The actual context of Romans 14 is about days of the week on which to fast (Pharisaic practice was twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays, whereas the early Christians switched to different days to distance themselves from Judaism) the meat sacrificed to idols which some were concerned about so they began to eat only vegetables. It does not mean you can eat what the Lord says is an abomination, or that you can pick whichever days in the year you wish to set apart as sacred time. Only the scriptures define that.
I'm going to put my trust in the grace of the Messiah, who redeemed me from all lawlessness and sins committed in ignorance, who has called his Bride to be holy, and said he has not come to abolish the Law or the prophets and that if we love him, we should keep his commandments.
Do you have any plans to cover the British Israelite myth or Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God?
There is a cool story about how the WWCG leadership recanted and embraced the true gospel after Armstrong died.
The terror on the one guy's face is priceless 😆.....recompense is coming soon!!!
Calvinism is also a secret knowledge type camp that is very patronizing. Reformed theology claims that knowledge was lost from the church, and they restored it (reformed the 'catholic church').
Yeah, everytime I deal with with Calvanists they think only the elect are saved, but how do they know they're part of the elect?
I thought apologia were definitely Calvinists
If these guys truly studied and read the bible, they would know that the torah is the word, Moses and the prophet's all pointing to Yeshua the Messiah, who is the word. Either you believe the whole bible or you don't, this is not a new or made up thing. I pray you will read, pray or even fast about this matter, because if your wrong about this, you will be coming against Yah (God)
stop saying every torah observant is hebrew roots.
Well I am a Hebrew roots believer. Love my Way of life. We used to be in churches and xtianity(not trying to generalize) but the mainstream anyway. It was just .. "All over the place".
I enjoy Apologia for the way you fight against abortion among other things.
Hopefully this will not be a bash fest.
Errors need to be corrected, just bc you love ur "way of life" doesn't mean it's biblically accurate and just bc you have been in bad churches doesn't mean that what you've now drawn to is correct. If you follow Apologia than maybe you will receive the truth from their preaching and teaching.
@@jesuschristiskingofkingslo2023 clearly..error begets error.. I can see how xtianity would point that out
What is the difference between hebrew roots and Christianity?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree Rome(Christianity) vs Israel(Hebraism)
@@DudeMaccabeus Rome is Babylon, Paul said so! Scripture says we (born again) are true Hebrews (brought forth ones), passing through water! This is the meaning, it’s in the very words. There were some Hebrew that were branches cut off and gentiles are grafted in…a non Hebrew becomes a Hebrew, this is by design. Not because we need to be part of a nationality, but because we are those who are partakers in the covenant , that is expanded not only to the “Jew” , but to all tonges, tribes and nations, by design….have you not read the New Testament?!!! Have you not read the Old Testament!?
When will you guys do a cultish on dispensationalist calvinism?
What is cultish about it? (Asking for a friend)
@@John5TwentyFour its antichrist doctrine made by freemasons/jesuits
@@DudeMaccabeus Which doctrines specifically?
@@John5TwentyFour did you not read my first comment?
@@DudeMaccabeus I did but it just seems like an ad hominem fallacy.
Calvinism and dispensationalism are more then just exclusive doctrines, there are doctrines within said theological camps. I was curious if you could point out the specifics and explain why you think they are antichrist? Please enlighten your ignorant neighbors.
Thank you so much for this!
One of our elders (in a messianic congregation), has been in a church that focused on their "Hebrew roots". He told us that after a while most of them left for Chabad (which is a religious place, rabbinic Judaism).
Even though most of the people in our church in Israel are Jewish people, and we do keep some of the traditions, we always try to keep the gospel at the centre. otherwise, we can't call ourselves Messianic/Christians.
Hebrew roots and messianic also need to be distinguished, hardly the same most of the time.
@@krjohnson agreed, sometimes I call myself messianic, and sometimes Christian. Since the meaning of the word is the same, I don’t care really. And I put my foot down when people differentiate between the 2. Especially since there is a wrong term in Hebrew for Christians, people call Christians “Nazarenes”. Which is wrong.
@@amitamsalem interesting, I’ve never heard of that term. In the end, for whatever term we use, we are sinners saved by gracious God through the blood of His son.
@@krjohnson that’s true, amen ❣️
So I got 48 minutes into this video and no scripture has been compared or analyzed from the Hebrew roots point of view or the Apologia Studios point of view.
It's videos like this that frustrate me. You are a Bible based ministry and no Bible being used. Just like most modern Christian "church services" I've experienced.
We get to sin because He didn't?
Can't listen to a critic who still celebrates Christmas
You're still blind
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah:
* Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3)
* Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26)
* Taught and observed Gods holy days such as:
* Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34)
* Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8)
* Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9)
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Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow,
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So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26
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Paul kept the Sabbath
Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles)
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Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
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After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31).
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Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22).
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Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified.
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That was not the purpose of the law.
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He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus.
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By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV
I have so much sympathy for these people because I can easily see myself falling into this trap. If you have OCD, or a perfectionist personality (or are easily swayed) you can really start worrying if you are doing the right thing. And since you know God gave the Old Testament, why not be super sure of your devotion/salvation by rather doing more than necessary than less than is needed.
While I appreciate the concern towards those of us who practice our faith in Messiah different than you. I personally am okay. None of it is hard when you overcome the initial shock that what you were taught in Church wasn't quite right. And as for me and mine, we don't live much different than we did prior to coming to this understanding. Faith in Christ is still what saves, we just have a few extra practices we incorporate into our walk because we believe that these practice demonstrate our love for the Father and His awesome Son! It isn't a matter of what we must do but what we ought to do in accordance with how we have been convicted. All believers affirm that "If we love our Messiah, we should keep His commandments." The question is ultimately, why commandments does He mean? I am not saying that certain sects of the Torah movement don't have their issues. But it would be silly in my mind to assume that mainstream Churches don't also have their problems. The mainstream Church is just more accepted socially so they are given more grace imo. Blessings.
Mike Winger does a good 4pt series on this
So does Chris Roseborough. I found his video a couple months ago. ruclips.net/video/xq13jYGa6BI/видео.html
Minute mark 14:07 references a freedom in Christ to observe some kinds of traditions not handed down to the apostles or prophets (of the bible) by God... as far as I know this teaching is discouraged and condenmed by Paul and others.
What scriptural text is being used to validate this claim?
Please cover Calvinism the Gnostic cult as well. Thank you.
Did you guys miss the part where he said he isn't saying this is a cult?
The sabbath doesn't matter ---the LORD JESUS Christ receives ALL the glory
What good is following after laws if you don't have a personal testimony unto salvation through Jesus Christ?
What’s the difference between the Hebrew roots and theonomy?
I find it ironic that ppl call the Sabbath "Jewish", when it's first mentioned in Genesis ch ONE. Jews are told to REMEMBER the Sabbath, not institute it. Ppl equating Hebrew Roots to Messianic have NO idea wth they're talking about. Most of these ppl don't understand Paul, (2 Pet. 3:14-17) bc when Paul quotes scripture, they don't bring the CONTEXT along the verses he is quoting!
I challenge everyone to explain the apparent contradiction between Rom. 2:13 & Rom. 3:20.