I’ve recently finished a TIC with Survivor Tony and really liked it. My go to cards were: At a crossroads, should not need any explanation. Long shot because extra damage. Alter Fate to deal with sticky treacheries. In every scenario it came on super clutch. Dauntless Spirit for will treacheries, since it gives 5 icons (6 with Lonnie). A test of will (1) for giggles later on, it can be anything really. That was Switchblade Tony, and it worked wonders to no one’s surprise. Another Survivor Tony combo, that actually works after multiple testing scenarios, is 2H firearms with Act of Desperation + Pushed to the limit. Basically giving you 2x copies of your big gun with resource cash back. First scenario you start with .45 Thompson with essentially 22 bullets (44 potential damage per deck cycle). And later on you upgrade into Chicago Typewriter or a new Gatling gun, compressing the damage per action even more. Honestly survivor Tony may be my most favorite second class for him by a mile, it’s really versatile and can take you in any direction that you want.
3:05 "the number on the star effect doesn't matter, there is never a star you should fail" That is just not incorrect. It matters if the star brings both mythos stats to 3 and even better to 4. It means you can expect to beat on average 1 mythos test per scenario, that you expected to fail. Which matters quite a bit actually.
This assumes that every mythos card is a test, and that every test you take is a test that is going to be failed without the +x. I'll acknowledge that positive stars can randomly pull you through a mythos test, but it's very minor value and in my experience way closer to twice/campaign than once/scenario.
When I first saw Tony played (by others), I wasn't impressed. They would feel like they had to put more than 1 bounty on some monsters and that would mean they run out before the end of the scenario. When I got around to play Tony, it never crossed my mind to put more than 1 bounty on a monster. There were just so many fight bonuses out there, chief among them was Lonnie, she just does so much for Tony, it's crazy. The thing that I didn't expect was how good fishing for his Elder Sign is. When you're doing 3 fight actions a turn, plus 1 because of a bounty, plus 1 because of Haste, you're getting a lot of chances to hit an Elder Sign and get an extra bounty. Do that 1 or 2 times and you are golden on bounties, even in a four player game. I didn't expect that. I'm used to thinking of skill tests as just a liability but for Tony they are an asset.
The fact that you didn't show us the end of the campaign full XP deck is even more telling of how powerful Tony is 😂. (Even with the recent -2 XP "nerf" he got with the Underworld Market taboo)
I haven't had a chance to try them out in Tony yet, but I feel like Seeker Tony might love the new Double cards (Bank Job and Thorough Inquiry) for level 0 team support and economy. They're good for taking advantage of your economy/action surplus before you have the full big money package.
Typically when I play Tony my teammates are like "Oh cool, cutting the fighting cards then," so I don't think my table would ever let me, but yeah, absolutely. If your team is helping with fighting at all, Tony will 100% have the spare time to run both 2 action cards and if they have a home in anyone, it'll be a home in Tony.
I've really gotta' play Kohaku but unfortunately my tabletop group is always either into board games or TTRPGs, and since we're currently cycling into TTRPGs and I'm busy with The Bazaar, I have precious little time to actually play the guy :( He's just so different from other mystics that any opinion on him in theory doesn't really hold water. He's like || Pete in that there's no way to understand him from a decklist alone since there's nothing else that's playing the same game (I suppose there are modern Mateo decks and || Agnes decks that are similar, but certainly nothing like him from before Hemlock and nothing like him that I've played).
I've gone insane with Roland late campaign into Dunwich and decided to pick Tony as a replacement. Considering the EXP was stingey, I only had enough EXP for a Switchblade. Tony's ability and that Switchblade was sufficient enough to carry the rest of the campaign. Even got to thousand cuts of death a 12 health Silas Bishop in two rounds.
An interesting point we could discuss is if a pure fighter could ever be S-Tier. It always seems to me as if an average cluever brings more to the table than a really good fighter. A fighter has a hard maximum benefit to the group. If he can handle all monsters well enough, he is maxed out. Being better will do him or the group little good. But a good cluever will shorten the game, skip several mythos phases in the process, reduce the amount of fighting needed, ... I can see that Tonys power increases with scale. He probably could handle nearly all the fighting in a 4 players game, freeing up the other investigator slots. He can definitely handle all the fighting in a 3 player game. And he is going to be bored in a 2 player game. So Tony brings a lot to a large crowd, but very little to a small team. A busted fighter eliminates the monsters. A busted cluever lets you play the game in story mode.
That's 100% a debate I've had before, and it's why my first tier list videos were, well, videos in the plural and separate fighter/cluever lists. Ultimately, fighting is a necessary role and saying that "This 100% must be done, but you cannot be S tier if you do it" sounds wrong too. I've settled with having incredibly harsh criteria for my fighters to make it to S tier, but I absolutely agree with everything you're saying about fighters typically having a lower maximum value they provide to their group.
@@RatherIncoherent ""This 100% must be done, but you cannot be S tier if you do it" sounds wrong too." Not to me. S-Tier is the busted game breaking tier. And you can't break the game by killing monsters. And nearly every fighter can get to the point where killing monsters becomes a part time job. In that way a lot of fighters should be s-tier, since they are breaking their part of the game. The problem is that killing monsters is a task that the game demands to be done. But it is not rocket science, it does not take overpowered investigators or clever builds to get the job done.
@@RatherIncoherent Thought about this a little more. And what will follow is a hot take. And I'm not certain if I believe it myself. Yet. And it is viewed from a certain perspective, as all takes are. But if we agree that killing the monsters is not that troublesome, not the way to breake the game, the real difference-maker for fighters is: What can you do beyond killing the monsters, and how much of your time is spend killing those monsters. And that makes flex fighters the best fighters. And no pure fighter could ever be in s-tier. And here is the hot take: Roland Banks is the most broken fighter character. Because if you build him in a way that enables him to do his job as fighter, you get a ton of clues as a bonus.
@@Chiungalla79I don't think getting clues would be the best you can do to help your team if we are talking about completely breaking the game, because Amanda or Rex do not need the help of their fighter/flex to get the clues. I like your approach of providing more than every enemy is instantly dead. But I think I'd go with supporting as in healing/giving actions/protecting from the mythos the cluever. Also I don't optimize at all I play super casual with spicy cards, so what do I know. Good discussion tho!
@@DrDifra If your cluever is running hot, and the fighter is killing all those monsters and gets additional clues... you will NEVER need healing in the first place. The best kind of healing you could ever have is the post scenario healing after finishing the finish line early. Every round less is a round of mythos cards less.
Really considering playing him in my blind playthrough of the Innsmouth Conspiracy along with Mandy as a cluever and this video has been very helpful. Not sure whether to go with Guardian or Seeker for secondary class of Tony though for the Innsmouth specifically.
You saying you would clock a card as ~ 2 resources reminded me of this cool series of articles which explores modeling all arkham actions and interactions with the scenario as trades for a single resource. I am a devotee of the jankest theme builds i can muster, but it was a really cool read peeling back some of the games design and may be up your alley. Look up 'alone in the mythos resources trading rate model'.
if you pick his secondary class as survivor then you can run hunting jacket. Works with lonnie and and helps with economy. Theres probably other cards that could help (maybe you could consider adding At a Crossroads, but its so bad) but once you add that jacket it's time to sack it.
"It's goot, but not exceptional" - I know, that's why there are two of them!
I’ve recently finished a TIC with Survivor Tony and really liked it. My go to cards were:
At a crossroads, should not need any explanation.
Long shot because extra damage.
Alter Fate to deal with sticky treacheries. In every scenario it came on super clutch.
Dauntless Spirit for will treacheries, since it gives 5 icons (6 with Lonnie).
A test of will (1) for giggles later on, it can be anything really.
That was Switchblade Tony, and it worked wonders to no one’s surprise.
Another Survivor Tony combo, that actually works after multiple testing scenarios, is 2H firearms with Act of Desperation + Pushed to the limit. Basically giving you 2x copies of your big gun with resource cash back. First scenario you start with .45 Thompson with essentially 22 bullets (44 potential damage per deck cycle). And later on you upgrade into Chicago Typewriter or a new Gatling gun, compressing the damage per action even more.
Honestly survivor Tony may be my most favorite second class for him by a mile, it’s really versatile and can take you in any direction that you want.
3:05 "the number on the star effect doesn't matter, there is never a star you should fail"
That is just not incorrect. It matters if the star brings both mythos stats to 3 and even better to 4.
It means you can expect to beat on average 1 mythos test per scenario, that you expected to fail. Which matters quite a bit actually.
This assumes that every mythos card is a test, and that every test you take is a test that is going to be failed without the +x. I'll acknowledge that positive stars can randomly pull you through a mythos test, but it's very minor value and in my experience way closer to twice/campaign than once/scenario.
When I first saw Tony played (by others), I wasn't impressed. They would feel like they had to put more than 1 bounty on some monsters and that would mean they run out before the end of the scenario. When I got around to play Tony, it never crossed my mind to put more than 1 bounty on a monster. There were just so many fight bonuses out there, chief among them was Lonnie, she just does so much for Tony, it's crazy. The thing that I didn't expect was how good fishing for his Elder Sign is. When you're doing 3 fight actions a turn, plus 1 because of a bounty, plus 1 because of Haste, you're getting a lot of chances to hit an Elder Sign and get an extra bounty. Do that 1 or 2 times and you are golden on bounties, even in a four player game. I didn't expect that. I'm used to thinking of skill tests as just a liability but for Tony they are an asset.
Suprise you didnt have a shoutout to Garrote Wire since that card prett much said "Lets see if you can kill this thing without using a action"
The fact that you didn't show us the end of the campaign full XP deck is even more telling of how powerful Tony is 😂. (Even with the recent -2 XP "nerf" he got with the Underworld Market taboo)
I haven't had a chance to try them out in Tony yet, but I feel like Seeker Tony might love the new Double cards (Bank Job and Thorough Inquiry) for level 0 team support and economy. They're good for taking advantage of your economy/action surplus before you have the full big money package.
Typically when I play Tony my teammates are like "Oh cool, cutting the fighting cards then," so I don't think my table would ever let me, but yeah, absolutely. If your team is helping with fighting at all, Tony will 100% have the spare time to run both 2 action cards and if they have a home in anyone, it'll be a home in Tony.
id love to hear your train of thought about kohaku decks
I've really gotta' play Kohaku but unfortunately my tabletop group is always either into board games or TTRPGs, and since we're currently cycling into TTRPGs and I'm busy with The Bazaar, I have precious little time to actually play the guy :( He's just so different from other mystics that any opinion on him in theory doesn't really hold water. He's like || Pete in that there's no way to understand him from a decklist alone since there's nothing else that's playing the same game (I suppose there are modern Mateo decks and || Agnes decks that are similar, but certainly nothing like him from before Hemlock and nothing like him that I've played).
Playing one Well Connected and then playing another should feel bad!
I've gone insane with Roland late campaign into Dunwich and decided to pick Tony as a replacement. Considering the EXP was stingey, I only had enough EXP for a Switchblade. Tony's ability and that Switchblade was sufficient enough to carry the rest of the campaign. Even got to thousand cuts of death a 12 health Silas Bishop in two rounds.
An interesting point we could discuss is if a pure fighter could ever be S-Tier.
It always seems to me as if an average cluever brings more to the table than a really good fighter. A fighter has a hard maximum benefit to the group. If he can handle all monsters well enough, he is maxed out. Being better will do him or the group little good. But a good cluever will shorten the game, skip several mythos phases in the process, reduce the amount of fighting needed, ...
I can see that Tonys power increases with scale. He probably could handle nearly all the fighting in a 4 players game, freeing up the other investigator slots. He can definitely handle all the fighting in a 3 player game. And he is going to be bored in a 2 player game. So Tony brings a lot to a large crowd, but very little to a small team.
A busted fighter eliminates the monsters. A busted cluever lets you play the game in story mode.
That's 100% a debate I've had before, and it's why my first tier list videos were, well, videos in the plural and separate fighter/cluever lists. Ultimately, fighting is a necessary role and saying that "This 100% must be done, but you cannot be S tier if you do it" sounds wrong too. I've settled with having incredibly harsh criteria for my fighters to make it to S tier, but I absolutely agree with everything you're saying about fighters typically having a lower maximum value they provide to their group.
@@RatherIncoherent
""This 100% must be done, but you cannot be S tier if you do it" sounds wrong too."
Not to me. S-Tier is the busted game breaking tier. And you can't break the game by killing monsters.
And nearly every fighter can get to the point where killing monsters becomes a part time job. In that way a lot of fighters should be s-tier, since they are breaking their part of the game.
The problem is that killing monsters is a task that the game demands to be done. But it is not rocket science, it does not take overpowered investigators or clever builds to get the job done.
@@RatherIncoherent
Thought about this a little more.
And what will follow is a hot take. And I'm not certain if I believe it myself. Yet. And it is viewed from a certain perspective, as all takes are. But if we agree that killing the monsters is not that troublesome, not the way to breake the game, the real difference-maker for fighters is: What can you do beyond killing the monsters, and how much of your time is spend killing those monsters. And that makes flex fighters the best fighters. And no pure fighter could ever be in s-tier.
And here is the hot take:
Roland Banks is the most broken fighter character.
Because if you build him in a way that enables him to do his job as fighter, you get a ton of clues as a bonus.
@@Chiungalla79I don't think getting clues would be the best you can do to help your team if we are talking about completely breaking the game, because Amanda or Rex do not need the help of their fighter/flex to get the clues. I like your approach of providing more than every enemy is instantly dead. But I think I'd go with supporting as in healing/giving actions/protecting from the mythos the cluever.
Also I don't optimize at all I play super casual with spicy cards, so what do I know.
Good discussion tho!
@@DrDifra
If your cluever is running hot, and the fighter is killing all those monsters and gets additional clues... you will NEVER need healing in the first place.
The best kind of healing you could ever have is the post scenario healing after finishing the finish line early.
Every round less is a round of mythos cards less.
Really considering playing him in my blind playthrough of the Innsmouth Conspiracy along with Mandy as a cluever and this video has been very helpful. Not sure whether to go with Guardian or Seeker for secondary class of Tony though for the Innsmouth specifically.
You saying you would clock a card as ~ 2 resources reminded me of this cool series of articles which explores modeling all arkham actions and interactions with the scenario as trades for a single resource. I am a devotee of the jankest theme builds i can muster, but it was a really cool read peeling back some of the games design and may be up your alley. Look up 'alone in the mythos resources trading rate model'.
if you pick his secondary class as survivor then you can run hunting jacket. Works with lonnie and and helps with economy. Theres probably other cards that could help (maybe you could consider adding At a Crossroads, but its so bad) but once you add that jacket it's time to sack it.
No, you can't. Events and Skills only and only up to level 1. Hunting Jacket is a level 2 asset. So not part of his card pool.
Very curious about the parallel universe in which At a Crossroads is bad and Tony can play Hunting Jacket.
Don't think it can run asset card