20:39 The Bachmann diesel I got years ago for $40 (30 pounds) has a better mechanism than that, with TWO more flywheels. 9 years later, and it still runs pretty good (and it came from the days when DCC Ready wasn't a thing).
Alternative title: Sam gets _bulleid_ by Bachmann’s new train set Edit: 42 likes, that'ss all I need thanks. The answer to life, the universe and everything.
I'm afraid the seem down the boiler did it for me, you can't blame the chinese manufacturing, they have been pressured into making a product for very little money. A good honest review Sam as per usual, we respect that.
You better not fix that engine before I can request it on stream with Dapol's amazing Egg Vans! It's stuff like this that made Botchmann the laughing stock of the market in the United States for some time.
Its one of the reasons why I have moved to European HO scale model trains. Roco and Fleischmann model trains are made in the EU and are better quality than the Hornby and Bachmann tack in my opinion. Botchmann and Hornby quality is not a patch on Roco or Fleischmann. Also NMJ model trains are made in Norway, so we have a choice. Either put up with crap quality or take another path and stop buying poorly made crap. I did the latter and the only made in China model trains I will buy will be secondhand until Hornby and Bachmann boost their quality.
Great video sam'strains, the one thing creating these models is that they need to keep it simple, although the local motive steam engine looks amazing, I think they need to paint the cab inside to look the part as well, the best advice is to keep it simple but don't over complicated things. The model train looks amazing 😀
Thanks Daniel - they should keep it simple - the drawbar is a good example as that! Though the cab was too simple, lol! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Ha yes! I remember that last train set! The Thanet Flyer does look like a nice train set with that livery. It's disappointing tho with the running issues however and for a new starter in the hobby, it will cause even more disappointment. Not a good start for any newcomer. Sloppy paintwork and performance issues are non negotiable really. Such great potential but execution let it down. Great review and content as always. All the best, Clint
Thanks Clint - yeah you're right, I'd feel sorry for anyone starting out with one of these - it could taint their experiences of the hobby entirely :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A well considered and thoughtful review, thanks. Initially I was tempted as I have no Bullied coaches and the N was a great loco considering the the SE&CR was almost bankrupt when Mr Maunsel built it. Perhaps I can find better value but , like you, I did like the colour on the loco. In passing, you may already know that in 1937, knowing that Oliver was inspecting the Ryde Loco Works on IoW, Marjorie Bullied asked him to buy some green sewing thread for her. This was the colour he bought and Mrs B suggested that he should paint his engines in it. So that is why Henry Ivatt's daughter was responsible for Southern Malachite Green.(Wonder what would have happened if she had married Wm Stroudley)
@@SamsTrains If you liked this factoid, I am something of a Bulliedaphile so see what you make of this one. Apart from having the good sense to marry the boss's daughter, the great man visited Eastleigh Works to answer questions from disgruntled loco crews. He was asked "Why do your engines use so much coal and water ?" To which he replied : "Because I design them that way. Next." Salutae. Martin
@@SamsTrains it's a preweathered locomotive with the overspray being intentional, why not paint the cab as you want it painted and let's face it, train sets for beginners have to be relatively cheap at least to get new people into the hobby. The average person who's already into the hobby is pushing locomotives and rolling stock out of the range of beginners looking to expand their train set out of next to anyone's budget by asking companies to spend a lot of money and not expect to make a profit, which would allow them to expand their lineup.
Check out those lamp irons at 14:14, is that prototypical? They look humungous. Also the way they've mounted the motor at 20:13, I've never seen that before. What sort of gear train does it have? No need to pull the loco apart just to answer my question, maybe the parts diagram shows it.
Sam's Trains the fact that the tender is so light probably doesn't help. I do take issue with you saying that bachmann mechanisms are generally poor, all my bachmann models have brill mechanisms. Yes this one is bad, but it's not fair to say stuff like this when you obviously don't know what you are chatting.
@@stevelomas4119 im sure if hornby pays sam he'll probably not review bachmann products, plus he doesn't really hate them, just a bit of a poor quality on a high price.
H, if all your Bachmann mechanisms have brill mechanisms, you can't have tried very many! Mechanisms like this one are VERY common on Bachmann's steamers - and yes I do 'know what I'm chatting', because I own over 400 model locomotives, and have considerable experience with them. In case there's any doubt that I 'know what I'm chatting', here are a brief list of Bachmann locos with similarly poor mechanisms: Bachmann 4MT (tender and tank), Bachmann Patriot, Bachmann 4575, Bachmann 5MT, Bachmann WD Austerity 2-8-0, Bachmann A2, Bachmann A1, Bachmann 2MT, Bachamnn 4MT, Bachmann K3, Bachmann Jubilee. That's enough for now. All of the above have no tender pickups, no flywheel, no proper bearings and 3 pole motors. It is just my opinion of course, but I think it's more than fair to say that Bachmann mechanisms are generally poor - diesels excepted! I'm guessing you're kidding Steve - because on my last Hornby review (the large prairie), I slated Hornby too for the terrible quality! ;)
Hi Sam, first of all. Thanks for another great review and for pointing out some truths about the quality of Bachmann and Hornby model trains. Infact its videos like this that concretes my frustration of poor tacky quality that Bachmann and Hornby think its acceptable to make us pay for crap. I am not prepared to keep paying for poorly made models and to be honest, this is the reason I am no longer getting any more model trains from Hornby or Bachmann for the foreseeable future. This is the reason why I moved over to European HO scale model trains because the quality is much better and the models I have bought so far have not fallen to bits or arrived with a broken chassis like the Bachmann Class 90's I recently bought. Those models are not cheap and this should not be happening. But they won't improve whilst we continue to put up with their poor quality. Most companies do not even care for the customer. So I take the same attitude with them.
Cheers mate! Yes I have a lot of frustration too - and things like this have been really getting to me lately - I'm cracking down! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains The thing is Sam. We pay good money for these model trains. But we rarely get the quality that is expected in exchange for our hard earned cash. All the best Ash.
Here in the US we have some excellent manufacturers. I haven't bought a new loco that I'm not mostly happy with. Even used engines, though needing some work (such as cleaning wheels, touching up details, etc.), are a pretty good bargain. Train shows are great for getting some deals.
Sad to see all that room under the boiler and such a dodgy drive system. Bachmann will keep making nice looking overpriced cheap problematic overpriced junk as long as people are willing to pay for it. But as always, great video.
Hi Sam. Another good and honest review. It appears that the gap between quality and value for money is widening in the case of Bachmann. They seem to be cutting corners and charging ridiculous prices just for the sake of profit. Keep up the good work. Cheers Chris.
Sam love the vids. Yesterday I injured my foot really badly I also went to a local model railway shop and saw that train set and the underground Ernie it is scary in real life
I say a train set like this is what I’m looking for. I’m not a beginner but an adult. I appreciate a good detailed locomotive as not ALL beginners are kids. Athearn here in North America made great starter sets with well detailed locos and rolling stock. Miss those and would like to buy a good British set! This is what I’d be looking for.
Out of curiousity, what do you think is the biggest factor in parts on an engine that will give it that 'smooth crawl'? I've seen old Triang 3Fs managing some slow, crawl-worthy speeds, then I see a brand new model like this that cant really manage it. Have you noticed any specifics that keep reoccuring in the 'Can't Crawl, Won't Crawl' models?
I think everything has to be right for a good crawl - you can't do it without a good motor, but a good chassis is essential too - any friction, and it's a no-go! Some of the tri-angs can crawl brilliantly, but not as well as some modern locos with 5 pole motors! I find flywheels, if too big, can ruin a crawl too - unless the motor is ultra efficient! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is why I intend to avoid Bachmann products ludicrously expensive especially when the detail and performance isn’t great. I wonder if they test these🤔 I just stick to Hornby Trains sets yes maybe basic and some do have traction tires on the loco but the value for money is way better. I agree with the ratings nearly on par of the 1361 by Heljan. Anyways great video Sam🙂
You're right to do so - the prices would be fine if their products had the quality to match - in this case, it very much didn't! Hornby train sets are far better quality (usually!) Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Talk of being in a bad mood, perhaps a story might make you laugh unless it scares you first. Sam was having a very bad day, due to his buying a train set that was way beyond his purchase budget. The Train Set in question was a Colliery & Quarry Goods set, complete with a small 0-6-0 Saddle Tank Engine of the Peckett B2 persuasion. The set had cost £289 to buy and he was almost in tears about it. Engine and 4 wagons out of the box, Sam had infuriating trouble getting the wagons to couple together, either by hand or backing the engine down on them. On top of this, the engine refused to crawl smoothly after being run in. Sam burst into tears, he was more upset than angry. "Why is this happening to me?!" he wailed loudly. "It's not what it should be!" Broome Manor and City of Truro, coupled up to a passenger train they were double-heading, chuffed up to Sam. They blew steam and soot up his nose, thus causing him to.... "Aatchoo!" ....sneeze. "Feel better?" chorused the Great Western Engines together. Sam looked down at them, feeling a cheerful grin spreading across his sad face. A laugh erupted from his throat. "I do," he giggled happily. "Thankyou for making me sneeze." Time went by. The 4 16-ton Mineral Wagons had a spooky effect about them, their colour was pale grey. The Peckett engine had been hurled down the ladder. 1361 the Ghost Saddle Tank Engine got the wagons and a grey Toad Van to behave. Sam's smile vanished as.... "AAH!" ....a girly scream of terror came out of his mouth. He'd uncannily put a Ghost Train together! He was whiter than a white sheet. Talk about scary.
Hi Sam 🙂 Just wanted to tell you I really enjoy your videos. Usually I listen while I play Railroads Online!, EEP, or 3D Train Studio. I have 2 HO sets, I just don't have room to set them up 😥 I love all the models you show, maybe one day I'll expand. Thankyou for all your vids, very much appreciated. All my best to you Sir 😎
@@SamsTrains I had no idea Bachmann was still selling this loco and these coaches. they're very old and that price is crazy. I got an example of the first batch run of the N class... in 1998. yes it's that old (the coaches are around 5-6 years older than that!) and that first batch used inferior metal for the cast of the running board which warped so bachmann recalled them. I've still kept my example with the cab splitting away from the chassis because of this warp, it's a rare novelty. BTW you can do a quick fix on the tender connection by taking the plastic x connector out then take the wire from a bread tie and tie up the tender and cab together through holes which would've connected the water to the loco in real life.
Mine too. I removed the eccentric-driven tender coupling mechanism (which I guess is to help it around tight curves) and replaced it with a home-made hook and eye system which has cured the tender derailing and also allowed me to close up the gap between engine and tender.
I've noticed I can now add an emoji to my comments if I want to. Is this the reason why it took me three days to comment on your previous video I wonder? I think the Thanet Flyer train set would have worked better on my railway. I have 2nd radius curves, which all my models get round perfectly well. My floor is completely flat, no inclines. Your train set left a sour taste in my mouth, and I'm so sorry it's let you down. Take my advice, hurl it down the ladder. Then it won't taste so sour. Also I don't have any points on my railway, so I've suffered fewer derailments than you and only one crash. Perhaps an emoji at the end will match your sour mood.
I feel your frustration, Sam. I used to open and test all the locos before they went out of the shop just because there always seemed to be an adjustment that needed to be made. One time I remember a $300 loco made it half way round the oval when it stopped dead in its tracks! Heh heh. A long screw had been stripped when assembled and it fell out and jammed between the ties. Fortunately I was usually able to fix them myself and demo them in front of the customer so that we were all on the same page. I also remember a batch of turn-outs that wouldn't close properly and had to be slightly modded. There is really no excuse for that lack of quality control except that some bean counter determined that it is more cost effective to replace an item than to make sure they all work properly. This is true for a lot of products manufactured today.
23:23 to 24:18 I had that trouble with my Bachmann SY 2-8-2 steam locomotive. The tender drawbar of my Bachmann SY derailed the tender and locomotive off the tracks. It was annoying just like your SR N Class, I think Bachmann thought they’re being clever but this “drawbar” only good for nothing at all. Due to my frustrations, I decided to scratch built and modify my Bachmann SY into a custom built HO 4-8-2 locomotive to make a better looking locomotive and have a better drawbar to at least go around my tracks without frequent derailments
Ahh sorry to hear that Nathan - does it have the same drawbar then? Sounds like a great project though - how did it go?! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains the Bachmann SY drawbar is similar to the N Class but uses four prongs that fits on a weird Y shape slide area for the draw on the locomotive and tender to pivot but it pivots when it feels like it because half the time, the prongs look like it doesn’t want to turn. And once it does, the strain drags the locomotive to the right and derails on points and curves. My custom 4-8-2 locomotive is still a work in progress but parts orders are dormant due to the “worldwide crisis and troubling times” but it will be made. P.s: Do you use Twitter, I am somewhat active there to showcase my model train projects.
It's a treat for the eyes... 😂😀 Thank you for all your reviews, you save a lot of us from disappointment when unboxing new stuff. And still trying to pick out the best of the mess. 😷 Stay safe (and strong lol).
I had a Bachmann N class a few years ago. Beautiful model, in BR lined black with late crest and I had the same derailment problem, it is a common fault with this model. It was to do with the profile of the wheels on the tender. I swapped the centre and leading axles around and it didn't derail after that. Was a beautiful model and ran very well after I 'repaired' it
Just checked, the pipes are most likely to do with steam heating of the carriages, possibly overflow water or steam condensation? In days of steam locos heating was passed through the carriages, but with advent of deisels Steam generators were used.
Hello. Would you be able to provide more info on the draw bar mechanism modifications? I bought an N class with the same issue and was planning on modifying it, but I don't really want to go into it blind. I tend to find that the pony truck also has issues on tight curves. not sure if this is caused by the tender too but yeah, any info would be very helpful. Thankyou
There are plenty of close coupling mechanisms around that work perfectly well. Bachmann even have one themselves on their Midland Pullman. It's as if they never even tested this one on the track.
Well,I suppose as an old saying goes,just because it cost a lot you don't always get a lot.😉I must say Sam that you were more than generous with your review on this one.Agreed,it looks good at a glance but not so much with closer inspection.It seems that in the model hobby world there are a series of compromises in quality(going on for some time).Even for RC flying models one can find some surprising goof ups that are frankly risky!I was viewing some videos on much higher end model trains($600-$1000 range USD) even those locos are occasionally plagued with problems with workmanship.At any rate,it's a pleasure watching your humorous and witty reviews!
Hi there glad I came across this video. Under our NZ lockdown I got back into model railway via my 1960s Triang childhood set which naturally wasn't a runner. Thanks to your channel and others I learnt to restore all sorts of models. Anyhoo along the way I bought a used analogue Bachman loco - the modified Soughton Hall. Loved the detail but boy it sucks re it's tender connection and derailed heaps. To be fair I'm using old super 4 track but even on code 100 it hasn't been great. I was at the stage of wanting to sell it off but now I'm wondering if I can do something about the draw bar? Any ideas would be very welcome. Cheers
Thanks a lot mate - that's really lovely to hear! Yes the Hall has a poor mechanism too - I've just bought one myself! The drawbar can be replaced with a better one - I just made my own! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi sam i just bought this for my 6 year old son who is train mad and loves your channel. I got a really good deal on it so the price kind of negative the obvious issues with this loco. He is 6 so i thought this would be a good starting point for him. Was just wondering what you would recommend next for him.
Hey Sam.... I’m a bit late to the party on this one.... But it’s quite interesting to see what British train sets are like.... As you know, I’m modeling Japan in N scale. I have 3 Kato Starter Sets, one each of these sets: JR East E4 MAX Shinkansen (bullet train), JR East EF81 hauled Hokutosei sleeper train & one JRF EF210 container train. All of the models in Japanese starter sets are identical to the main range, same design, details, mechanisms & decorations. Japanese trains, especially multiple units and dedicated train units like sleeper trains, are usually sold as base sets of 3 to 6 cars, with the extra cars in add-on sets to bring it up to the correct length. So if you want to extend the train, there will never be incompatibility issues as long as you buy the correct expansion pack(s). Basically what the manufacturers in Japan do for train sets is to package the base set of whatever train they’ve picked for that set with an oval of track & a power pack & controller. On a note about mechanisms, the “worst” mechanism I’ve got in my Japanese fleet is the Kato E4 MAX bullet train.... It’s a great mechanism, but in order to get a good mechanism into a double decker(!!) bullet train car and still have an interior with see-through windows on both decks, Kato has had to install the motor in one end of the car with only one flywheel.... So while it still runs well, it sounds like a mosquito buzzing down the line at high speed! If you couple two of them together, or couple it to a Mini-Shinkansen train (something JR East does in real life!), it does kind of smooth out the mosquito buzzing sound, though!
@@SamsTrains You’re welcome, Sam! Yeah, Kato’s reputation for excellence is very well deserved! Their models really are very high quality. Doesn’t matter if it’s Japanese, American or European outline, their reputation is very much deserved!
Two quick questions. 1 - I'm actually quite stunned that this scored much lower than the Hornby large prairie tank engine. You gave that one 3 stars for performance and 5 stars for the mechanism, despite the issues with it not running consistently, the couplers falling off, the body getting rather warm when you swapped the loco, and struggling to even pull 6 coaches as well as the Smokey Joe which was £100 cheaper. You also noted that it was capable of pulling 9 coaches fewer than this dud from Bachmann. Since a couple more people have reported similar faults, will you be revising that score at some point, or are you waiting for a replacement loco to see if it was just a small batch that got past the quality control? 2 - Will you be reviewing the new Hornby Class 66 locos, such as the NHS special edition Capt. Tom Moore?
Yeah! This loco performed badly because the mechanism was of poor design... the Hornby Large Prairie actually had a beautiful mechanism (as you'll remember), I just suspect something was wrong with it (still bad of course, but not as bad as a poor mechanism by design). The 5101 was also spotless in it's build quality - no paint messes or ugly seam lines etc. Loads of others have complained of similar issues with the Hornby 5101 though, so I do suspect a poor choice of motor. Leave it with me, but I am thinking of reducing my score for that - I don't think I was just unlucky! I've already done the 66s (the Lima ones are the same thing, just different mechanisms), so I can't really justify getting another right now. I may do one day though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains A mechanism should really be judged based entirely on how well it works. And in the case of the 5101 it quite clearly didn't. I'd argue that a bad mechanism of that kind, is actually worse than sticking in a cheaper, older and less robust style in. Especially if you let it past the quality control stage, and sell it in locos that expensive only for them to perform so poorly against cheaper models. Do locos that perhaps run a bit too fast, but at least do so reliably somehow deserve a worse score than a locomotive geared to run at a more realistic speed, but that have serious reliability issues? And for a model that costs £125 - £140 to have the couplings not even fit properly is ridiculous, and a serious performance flaw no matter how good it looks. The Adams Radial from Oxford would be another example I can think of, where I thought you were far too generous towards the model despite it's severe flaws. You gave it 3 stars on performance, 4 stars for mechanism, and 4 stars for quality, despite it struggling to pull, issues with the motors that nearly all of the models seemed to suffer from, horrendous wheelslip, cutting out on track that was ever so slightly uneven, overheating and a burning smell after running them for a while, just to list off a few of the faults it had. Oxford also don't produce spare parts, and I think you've even said yourself that both of yours are pretty much useless now. Which makes me question why their scores weren't adjusted, including the 5 stars for value given that you're paying for what will probably be a £50 - £80 scrapyard loco or paper weight.
How intriguing, it’s seems a few years ago Bachman USA released a version of this set for the US. It was called the “Irish Railway Train Set” it came with the same loco and same coaches as this but in a different livery. Except the American version came with 3 coaches. It was Still green but the loco and coaches had some Irish railway logos on them. It was modeled in HO instead of OO. Pretty interesting.
Yes you're absolutely right - different coaches though of course - I've often wondered about that set! I don't think the model is HO though (at least not the loco) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've been watching some of your videos, and something occurred to me that manufacturers should start doing. It isn't relevant to this model, but when you were looking at the Oxford models, all the videos I've seen you do on them commented on minor failings like plastic seams, and other things that could be corrected early in the process. I think model manufacturers should start doing standard and premium versions of each model. Use the same tooling, the same plastic and metal parts, the same good quality mechanisms, and price the standard version accordingly, but then put extra effort into the premium version. Pay someone to clean up the mold lines before painting, mask off areas to prevent minor splatter, add a bit of paint to the cab details, things like that. Maybe take extra time to do quality control on the fitted parts, adding glue from the inside to keep them from getting loose. Nothing that changes the identity of the model, just the sort of things that really speak to high quality. I think it would really help show buyers what you are paying for. Basically, show them that the broad strokes of a model can be cheaply mass produced, but if you want that high end finish, you need real people to put time into it, and that costs money. I know, not really relevant to this set, what with it having actual design issues and all, but it seems like that would be a great business move for them. For little to no extra cost, you can cater both to the low end market that can't afford high end trains, and to the high end market that expects near perfection in their models.
Hi Sam. I agree with your assessment of the set. It should be of a good standard and at a reasonable price. A brilliant paint job would never make up for bad assembly or engineering practice. Some of Bachmann's locos are geared to run at a reasonable speed, why can't they do that for all of them. I have Bachmann Mk.1 coaches from around the year 2,000 with beautifully smoothly working close couplers, why can't they do it for that tender drawbar. I'm afraid, even if the set was the one set that I really wanted, and it was like that one, I would not buy it for any price. Oh, I noticed that Bullman was bumping along on the sleepers, lol. Oh, and by the way, have you ever actually tested a loco by loading it up with the theoretical number of coached that it should pull? Regards, Alan.
Thanks Alan - yeah absolutely! A cheap set is fine, as long as the price tag is cheap too! The motor and gear arrangement is noticeably different from the norm on this model - not sure why that is! haha yes he was - he's a bugger on curves too! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Seems to me that Bachmann only tested this on the loop of track that comes in the box. The tender won't derail on that loop because it seems that the joining mechanism only jumps when the track straightens or changes direction.
lovely looking model - but the coupling between loco and tender - you are right "pants" you did a good engineering job to find out why it fails - clearly it stretches when under load - you would think Bachmann would have tested that ! also I think when offering only 2 coaches they should ensure there are plenty more produced to make it longer - I have the same problem with hornbys eurostar - just 2 coaches is not enough! but cant find more to buy
I had the bachman Great smokey MTN set when I was a kid and at least one of the cars would derail especially the Log car because the logs would shift about on the curves or if I ran it fast lol. In the new version they seem to have taken away the log car and the hopper car too and left the boxcar and added a tanker same green USRA 0-6-0 though....
It’s too good looking to forget about it. You could change the motor, fix up a drawbar. I would fix the holes and the paint job. But what can you do with the gearing? I don’t know of any way do you? Great video.
Absolutely John - I will fix the drawbar - not sure about the motor or gearing though - I've never been able to find suitable replacements :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've seen another, perhaps older train featuring the maunsell n class made by Bachmann called the Irish railway. from the looks of the videos I've seen of it online, the set appears to be of a much higher quality. the n class locomotive has no smoke deflectors, and doesn't appear to run that poorly. the set also includes 3 57ft LMS corridor coaches, a 3rd class composite, a 1st and 3rd class composite and a 3rd class brake end coach. all 4 components are also painted in the same emerald and seafoam livery and flying snail emblem of the Coras Iompair Eileann (Irish Transport System) or CIE, plus the usual accoutrements of some assorted track pieces, a transformer etc. I've actually been trying to find this set for a while, but it seems to be rare here in the states. so i just wanted to know if you would think of it if you review it and if you know where i can get one. thank you.
I think the Bachmann N class model is a 20 year old model. Still you would think that they could reduce the price as they have paid for the tooling. Talking of Bachmann pricing I have noticed that Bachmann have brought out a new range called the EFE rail range which contains models made by other manufacturers one of which is a Heljan hymek diesel where Bachmann have added £30 extra to the price. There is also a ex DJ models steam locomotive.
Yeah others have said that too - I had no idea it was so old! Yes they certainly have - the prices are exactly what I'd expect from Bachmann, lol! ;D The DJM loco is also £50 more than it was too!
If I had paid the full RRP I would have boxed it all back up and sent it back for a refund. Those bargain basement train sets that you reviewed earlier were of far better quality both in terms of performance and painting for a fraction of the cos of this. Another good honest review, Sam
Hey Sam,I’ve been getting very interested in the hobby and I’ld like to know,do HO and OO gauge locos run on the same type of track,os does each one have it’s own track size?
Hey Sam. I live in America. When ever I first got in to model trains. I bought my first ever train set it was the Bachmann Thomas with dc sound it came with troublesome trucks one and two for $225
I think you are right. If I were a beginner it would put me off continuing with model railways. It's good you speak your mind down and tell it as it is.
Thanks Duncan - for sure - imagine being a beginner, and having this as your first taste of model railways? It'd turn you away :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I agree with you about the quality of this loco set-its not very good but don't get me wrong I would have sent it back or at the very lease contacted Bachmann about the tender/derail problems considering the price. I always appreciate your good and honest reviews so keep up the good work-but more diesels please.
Thanks mate - contacting them doesn't do much good, I've tried before re motors.... they just wanted to charge me even more money for the replacement parts! Cheers mate, really appreciate it! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great review Sam. I/We were looking at Bachmann range a Few weeks back. Because they 'Do Look Great.!' But Sadly looking great isn't enough. My Son would be Devo'd to spend his Pocket Money, to end up with a Poor Runner and Derailing equipment. Think we will be Sticking with Hornby in future. ( I was a Triang and Later Triang/ Hornby kid, so maybe Biased.) But In my experience, Hornby never seem to Fail. My Old Black Princess loco is still running, since 1962 purchase. ( Battered, but intact and Never Fails or Derails.) Thanks for a Great review, from me and my Boy..! Cheers kim in Oz.😎
Thanks Kim - yes that's the problem - they do look great, and so people pick them up! Don't get me wrong - they often run great too, but they don't seem to last very long - I'm starting to see a lot of failures! While Hornby aren't immune to failures, their mechs are FAR better quality, giving their models a fighting chance of surviving for many many years, as often they do! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, Buy a tin of that Malachite Green paint, and then you would have the best bits of that train set. Malachite Green in gloss, or at least a sheen, is a real pleasure. A derailing train, whether it’s Malachite Green or not, is no good. Happy modelling. Stay safe! Jim
@ 6:30 Yes, I agree that a 3rd Coach would have made the set cooler, I confess, if it was available, I’d be tempted to own this set, the SR Malachite Green is really eye catching.
looking at that tender derailment & it looks like a lack of weight in the tender. Maybe adding a self adhesive wheel weight (as they use to balance car alloy wheels) to it might be a good idea. It's quite an old model (I remember these when I was getting into the hobby at the tender age of eight) but the N class itself is a very handsome prototype
You could be right - but I did all kinds of experiments with my Olive green N class before removing the drawbar - nothing I did alleviated the issue entirely! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think that you summed it up perfectly Sam, beginners should have something rugged and reliable and not be constantly re-railing a brand new item.Regards Terry.
You're right Terry - if anything, models for beginners need to be even more robust and reliable than the normal range... not the opposite way around! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That drawbar is a massive defect which has been on that model for nearly 15 years. My advice is to get rid of it and use a piece of multi core wire to connect the tender and the engine. It will make it more smoother.
Hello sam enjoyed the review can I ask (not sure if I have already) but did you buy the capt tom moore class 66 as hornby are shipping them out I think. Matthew
Thanks Matthew! I didn't buy it - I've done the class 66 already, so couldn't justify another one - they look amazing though! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
On my Kato N scale Broadway Limited passenger set, two of the coaches are connected by a similar drawbar mechanism as the N class. In real life the the two particular units were drawbarred together. The drawbar mechanism works just fine- the coaches are close-coupled on the straights and separate without colliding in corners, with no derailments. It can be done, but Bachmann's inconsistency strikes again. There's good reason we Americans have nicknamed them Botchmann! Since you said you'd like to try a better train set, give Kato a look. I don't know what UK-specific products they make besides the N scale Eurostar, but Kato's mechanical quality is top-notch in any scale they make.
Glad to hear yours was okay Iain - it's not just the train set engines though - my other N class derailed just as badly (except on different curves)! If yours is running well, then your track-work must be extremely well done mate!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Excellent review of the Bachmann train set that was not so much scary this time, but just annoying that it isn’t perfect train set. What I mean by annoying is the fact the N Class which looks lovely with that Southern green livery, is the fact that this model has three pole motor as well that tender keeps coming of the rails because of the link between the loco & tender.
Where does this leave us? Does it leave us to not buy from Heljan, Bachmann Branchline, and Bachmann USA? What are the better options? I can't help but wonder, when I see reviews like this.
haha I know!! Though hold that thought on Heljan - I think I've actually found a super loco from them! Hornby still works for me too!! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You know that its depressing when the coaches perform much better than the 160 pound loco that is dauntingly pulling them along. Goodness! That tender is bound to cause a rail disaster. Great video as always Sam!
Hi Sam, I am on holiday at the moment (very lucky to be able to go) so won't be able to watch your videos due to bad WiFi, but then again, we are on holiday to enjoy here! I have only just managed to be able to load in the commets for this video, so just to let you know, I won't be able to comment on your videos as usual. After a few weeks I will have caught up and I will put up comments when I have watched these videos. What was the music for the intro? It sounded like Pineapple Rag in places but it wasn't. Fig leaf rag? Thanks.
I have an SR black N class (the Modelzone special edition) and it runs beautifully, certainly better than my Railroad Schools which bounces very unrealistically - it's pretty much balanced on its driving wheels!
992 views so far! Nearly 1K! I think the inclusion of second radius curves is to cater for smaller spaces. I think, even for a starter loco, the N class is very poor. Thanks for another great review, and I'm looking forward to the last live episode of Series 9!
Shame about the OO N Class, the N Gauge version is one of my best runners and it seems to have much better detail given the size, even the cab is painted! Has tender pick ups and the price might be similar (I don't remember how much mine was when I got it). The way the glazing look on the OO version seems as if some glue has gotten on them. Am able to remake this set in N, though would be in BR Colours as while we have Malachite Bulleid coaches we don't have a Malachite N Class! Great Review Sam as always ~James
It's an old model, but it's still in Bachmann's range today with a modern price tag - why is it harsh to judge it as a modern loco? The new N class is no different - it's the same thing, just with less complex paintwork! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
There were two influences on the design of the N class both Great Western and Midland Railway. Holcroft came from the GW and brought with him Churchward's excellent ideas on standardisation of parts, taper boilers, and long travel valves. James Clayton had been trained at the Beyer Peacock company, been a draughtsman at SECR then gone to the Midland Railway working with Paget on the high pressure locomotive. He was responsible for the design of the Somerset & Dorset 2-8-0 where he designed in possibly the best braking system of any locomotive in the UK at the time. He brought from the Midland the Walschaerts valve gear, Midland ideas of ease of maintenance and possibly why the chimney and dome are very similar to Midland locomotives. The N was very similar to the 2 cylinder K and 3 cylinder K1 class 2-6-4 tanks with common components. Bachmann are bringing out brand new Bullied coaches to replace the old models, which have to be at least 25 years old (they may have upgraded the bogies). They will be compared to the Hornby Bullied 57 foot coaches, which are some of my favourite coaches. However, Bachmann LMS Porthole coaches are nowhere near the standard of the Hornby Stanier coaches, which are the older older model. So let us see what a job they are going to make of them. I had thought of getting one, but you have changed my mind.
Fascinating stuff Don - crazy to think this loco has routes in the GWR and Midland - thanks very much for all the info! The new Bulleid coaches should be very good to see! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam! It almost looks like the tender to locomotive coupling needs too be bored a tad bigger cause like you point out, that clunky bit when under a load is rather odd. As for what is worth in this set.......Yea...even I am confused on the price.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
20:39 The Bachmann diesel I got years ago for $40 (30 pounds) has a better mechanism than that, with TWO more flywheels. 9 years later, and it still runs pretty good (and it came from the days when DCC Ready wasn't a thing).
Alternative title: Sam gets _bulleid_ by Bachmann’s new train set
Edit: 42 likes, that'ss all I need thanks. The answer to life, the universe and everything.
Aaayy!! ;D
Yes your a genius
Aye, that be a reet canny joke!
lol
here, take 58 more likes and get the answer to life, the universe and everything squared.
I love when you do these train set reviews
Thank you! :D
Me too :)
Mee too
I love them too
Me to !!
I'm afraid the seem down the boiler did it for me, you can't blame the chinese manufacturing, they have been pressured into making a product for very little money. A good honest review Sam as per usual, we respect that.
haha yeah - I couldn't believe that when I saw it!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yes, especially as so many high quality items come from China also.
You better not fix that engine before I can request it on stream with Dapol's amazing Egg Vans!
It's stuff like this that made Botchmann the laughing stock of the market in the United States for some time.
Alright there Satan chill out!!
Some people want to watch the world burn.
I'll join you and bring the popcorn
@William Babcoke that would be a sight to see.
haha good god - we're all deeply looking forward to that ;)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Its one of the reasons why I have moved to European HO scale model trains. Roco and Fleischmann model trains are made in the EU and are better quality than the Hornby and Bachmann tack in my opinion. Botchmann and Hornby quality is not a patch on Roco or Fleischmann. Also NMJ model trains are made in Norway, so we have a choice. Either put up with crap quality or take another path and stop buying poorly made crap. I did the latter and the only made in China model trains I will buy will be secondhand until Hornby and Bachmann boost their quality.
Finally! A (somewhat) professional review of this set. I remember when I first got into model railways I was close to buying this, but I never did
haha thank you! I think you did well to avoid this one - the quality isn't what it should be :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Green Shark hi
@@GuyKenward hello
Green Shark we meet again
@@GuyKenward have we? Sorry but I can't remember who you are lol
Great video sam'strains, the one thing creating these models is that they need to keep it simple, although the local motive steam engine looks amazing, I think they need to paint the cab inside to look the part as well, the best advice is to keep it simple but don't over complicated things. The model train looks amazing 😀
Thanks Daniel - they should keep it simple - the drawbar is a good example as that! Though the cab was too simple, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great honest, if harsh, review. Thanks for being so open.
Thanks Nick - no problem mate - couldn't do it any other way!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
35:46
Do I spot an S15 stripped of its number and distinction of ownership?
An N15 - absolutely!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Ha yes! I remember that last train set! The Thanet Flyer does look like a nice train set with that livery. It's disappointing tho with the running issues however and for a new starter in the hobby, it will cause even more disappointment. Not a good start for any newcomer. Sloppy paintwork and performance issues are non negotiable really. Such great potential but execution let it down. Great review and content as always. All the best, Clint
Thanks Clint - yeah you're right, I'd feel sorry for anyone starting out with one of these - it could taint their experiences of the hobby entirely :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A well considered and thoughtful review, thanks. Initially I was tempted as I have no Bullied coaches and the N was a great loco considering the the SE&CR was almost bankrupt when Mr Maunsel built it. Perhaps I can find better value but , like you, I did like the colour on the loco. In passing, you may already know that in 1937, knowing that Oliver was inspecting the Ryde Loco Works on IoW, Marjorie Bullied asked him to buy some green sewing thread for her. This was the colour he bought and Mrs B suggested that he should paint his engines in it. So that is why Henry Ivatt's daughter was responsible for Southern Malachite Green.(Wonder what would have happened if she had married Wm Stroudley)
Thanks a lot Martin! That's very interesting - I never knew this, awesome! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains If you liked this factoid, I am something of a Bulliedaphile so see what you make of this one. Apart from having the good sense to marry the boss's daughter, the great man visited Eastleigh Works to answer questions from disgruntled loco crews. He was asked "Why do your engines use so much coal and water ?" To which he replied : "Because I design them that way. Next." Salutae. Martin
There's also a story that the SR Board didn't like the malachite so asked Bulleid to tone it down. He agreed, and did nothing.
Another 'Nice from afar, but far from nice' engine, I see. Tut, tut, Bachman, Tut, tut.
haha correct!
All my Bachman trains run nice and smoothly.
@@SamsTrains it's a preweathered locomotive with the overspray being intentional, why not paint the cab as you want it painted and let's face it, train sets for beginners have to be relatively cheap at least to get new people into the hobby. The average person who's already into the hobby is pushing locomotives and rolling stock out of the range of beginners looking to expand their train set out of next to anyone's budget by asking companies to spend a lot of money and not expect to make a profit, which would allow them to expand their lineup.
When I watch This Video I Lookout For churches And A lot Of beautiful Details In Your Layout Amazing Keep Up The work Sam
Thanks so much Mario, that's lovely to hear! :D
Check out those lamp irons at 14:14, is that prototypical? They look humungous.
Also the way they've mounted the motor at 20:13, I've never seen that before. What sort of gear train does it have? No need to pull the loco apart just to answer my question, maybe the parts diagram shows it.
I wonder if it’s something with the chassis that’s causing them to derail
It is - the tender drawbar - all in the video ;)
Well dang.
Sam's Trains the fact that the tender is so light probably doesn't help. I do take issue with you saying that bachmann mechanisms are generally poor, all my bachmann models have brill mechanisms. Yes this one is bad, but it's not fair to say stuff like this when you obviously don't know what you are chatting.
@@stevelomas4119 im sure if hornby pays sam he'll probably not review bachmann products, plus he doesn't really hate them, just a bit of a poor quality on a high price.
H, if all your Bachmann mechanisms have brill mechanisms, you can't have tried very many! Mechanisms like this one are VERY common on Bachmann's steamers - and yes I do 'know what I'm chatting', because I own over 400 model locomotives, and have considerable experience with them.
In case there's any doubt that I 'know what I'm chatting', here are a brief list of Bachmann locos with similarly poor mechanisms: Bachmann 4MT (tender and tank), Bachmann Patriot, Bachmann 4575, Bachmann 5MT, Bachmann WD Austerity 2-8-0, Bachmann A2, Bachmann A1, Bachmann 2MT, Bachamnn 4MT, Bachmann K3, Bachmann Jubilee. That's enough for now. All of the above have no tender pickups, no flywheel, no proper bearings and 3 pole motors. It is just my opinion of course, but I think it's more than fair to say that Bachmann mechanisms are generally poor - diesels excepted!
I'm guessing you're kidding Steve - because on my last Hornby review (the large prairie), I slated Hornby too for the terrible quality! ;)
Hi Sam, first of all. Thanks for another great review and for pointing out some truths about the quality of Bachmann and Hornby model trains. Infact its videos like this that concretes my frustration of poor tacky quality that Bachmann and Hornby think its acceptable to make us pay for crap. I am not prepared to keep paying for poorly made models and to be honest, this is the reason I am no longer getting any more model trains from Hornby or Bachmann for the foreseeable future. This is the reason why I moved over to European HO scale model trains because the quality is much better and the models I have bought so far have not fallen to bits or arrived with a broken chassis like the Bachmann Class 90's I recently bought. Those models are not cheap and this should not be happening. But they won't improve whilst we continue to put up with their poor quality. Most companies do not even care for the customer. So I take the same attitude with them.
Cheers mate! Yes I have a lot of frustration too - and things like this have been really getting to me lately - I'm cracking down! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains The thing is Sam. We pay good money for these model trains. But we rarely get the quality that is expected in exchange for our hard earned cash.
All the best
Ash.
Here in the US we have some excellent manufacturers. I haven't bought a new loco that I'm not mostly happy with. Even used engines, though needing some work (such as cleaning wheels, touching up details, etc.), are a pretty good bargain. Train shows are great for getting some deals.
Sad to see all that room under the boiler and such a dodgy drive system. Bachmann will keep making nice looking overpriced cheap problematic overpriced junk as long as people are willing to pay for it. But as always, great video.
Hi Sam. Another good and honest review. It appears that the gap between quality and value for money is widening in the case of Bachmann. They seem to be cutting corners and charging ridiculous prices just for the sake of profit. Keep up the good work. Cheers Chris.
Thanks a lot Chris - that does seem to be true - it's a crying shame!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I see what you mean, I love that green too.
Sam love the vids. Yesterday I injured my foot really badly I also went to a local model railway shop and saw that train set and the underground Ernie it is scary in real life
If it were me, I'd regard injuring my foot as the better part of the day! :-)
Awhh sorry to hear that - hope your foot is better soon :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I say a train set like this is what I’m looking for. I’m not a beginner but an adult. I appreciate a good detailed locomotive as not ALL beginners are kids. Athearn here in North America made great starter sets with well detailed locos and rolling stock. Miss those and would like to buy a good British set! This is what I’d be looking for.
Yeah something like this would be better for an adult - though I wouldn't really recommend this one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
28:28 "....expensive sh*t...."
I know you wanted say that, i can feel you.
😂😂😂
Hahaha
XD
haha - "solution" was a marvellous save, even if I say so myself!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Me too
Out of curiousity, what do you think is the biggest factor in parts on an engine that will give it that 'smooth crawl'? I've seen old Triang 3Fs managing some slow, crawl-worthy speeds, then I see a brand new model like this that cant really manage it. Have you noticed any specifics that keep reoccuring in the 'Can't Crawl, Won't Crawl' models?
I think everything has to be right for a good crawl - you can't do it without a good motor, but a good chassis is essential too - any friction, and it's a no-go! Some of the tri-angs can crawl brilliantly, but not as well as some modern locos with 5 pole motors! I find flywheels, if too big, can ruin a crawl too - unless the motor is ultra efficient!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hopefully with the amount of subs you have you can raise these faults for train companies to improve
Sometimes it does.
I hope so!!
I always look forward to these reviews! Great job!
Thanks Dom! Hope you like this one! :D
This is why I intend to avoid Bachmann products ludicrously expensive especially when the detail and performance isn’t great. I wonder if they test these🤔 I just stick to Hornby Trains sets yes maybe basic and some do have traction tires on the loco but the value for money is way better. I agree with the ratings nearly on par of the 1361 by Heljan. Anyways great video Sam🙂
You're right to do so - the prices would be fine if their products had the quality to match - in this case, it very much didn't! Hornby train sets are far better quality (usually!)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just bought a boxed N class today, malachite green £42. Brilliant runner tbh, a good bargain!
Talk of being in a bad mood, perhaps a story might make you laugh unless it scares you first.
Sam was having a very bad day, due to his buying a train set that was way beyond his purchase budget. The Train Set in question was a Colliery & Quarry Goods set, complete with a small 0-6-0 Saddle Tank Engine of the Peckett B2 persuasion. The set had cost £289 to buy and he was almost in tears about it.
Engine and 4 wagons out of the box, Sam had infuriating trouble getting the wagons to couple together, either by hand or backing the engine down on them. On top of this, the engine refused to crawl smoothly after being run in. Sam burst into tears, he was more upset than angry.
"Why is this happening to me?!" he wailed loudly. "It's not what it should be!" Broome Manor and City of Truro, coupled up to a passenger train they were double-heading, chuffed up to Sam. They blew steam and soot up his nose, thus causing him to.... "Aatchoo!" ....sneeze.
"Feel better?" chorused the Great Western Engines together. Sam looked down at them, feeling a cheerful grin spreading across his sad face. A laugh erupted from his throat.
"I do," he giggled happily. "Thankyou for making me sneeze."
Time went by. The 4 16-ton Mineral Wagons had a spooky effect about them, their colour was pale grey. The Peckett engine had been hurled down the ladder. 1361 the Ghost Saddle Tank Engine got the wagons and a grey Toad Van to behave. Sam's smile vanished as.... "AAH!" ....a girly scream of terror came out of his mouth. He'd uncannily put a Ghost Train together! He was whiter than a white sheet. Talk about scary.
I wasn't in a bad mood! This set put me in one though! Love the story though - I feel better now!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Kelly you always put a smile on my face when you tell us your stories that you wrote☺️
Hi Sam 🙂
Just wanted to tell you I really enjoy your videos.
Usually I listen while I play Railroads Online!, EEP, or 3D Train Studio.
I have 2 HO sets, I just don't have room to set them up 😥
I love all the models you show, maybe one day I'll expand.
Thankyou for all your vids, very much appreciated.
All my best to you Sir 😎
I was reading a review from 2012 and the first thing mentioned was derailing tender
haha really?! Was that from a magazine? If so, that's saying something!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I had no idea Bachmann was still selling this loco and these coaches. they're very old and that price is crazy. I got an example of the first batch run of the N class... in 1998. yes it's that old (the coaches are around 5-6 years older than that!) and that first batch used inferior metal for the cast of the running board which warped so bachmann recalled them. I've still kept my example with the cab splitting away from the chassis because of this warp, it's a rare novelty. BTW you can do a quick fix on the tender connection by taking the plastic x connector out then take the wire from a bread tie and tie up the tender and cab together through holes which would've connected the water to the loco in real life.
Darn Bachmann and the tender coupling.
I know it! :O
0:35 oh god its back 😨
Yes it is!! :D
I’ve had that issue with some of mine with the tender derailing I find loosening the screws on the draw bar makes them run fine
Ahh very interesting - I will try that! Done a bit of the old Heljan have they?! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Mine too. I removed the eccentric-driven tender coupling mechanism (which I guess is to help it around tight curves) and replaced it with a home-made hook and eye system which has cured the tender derailing and also allowed me to close up the gap between engine and tender.
2:27 who bullied those coaches. Was someone saying nasty things to them or something 😂
haha!! ;D
The last set made me loose sleep XD this is way better! Great job once again Sam!
haha me too, don't get me wrong! ;D
I've noticed I can now add an emoji to my comments if I want to. Is this the reason why it took me three days to comment on your previous video I wonder? I think the Thanet Flyer train set would have worked better on my railway. I have 2nd radius curves, which all my models get round perfectly well. My floor is completely flat, no inclines. Your train set left a sour taste in my mouth, and I'm so sorry it's let you down. Take my advice, hurl it down the ladder. Then it won't taste so sour. Also I don't have any points on my railway, so I've suffered fewer derailments than you and only one crash. Perhaps an emoji at the end will match your sour mood.
haha you're right - what a lovely photo that is! I'm sure your railway would have been much better for this!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I feel your frustration, Sam. I used to open and test all the locos before they went out of the shop just because there always seemed to be an adjustment that needed to be made. One time I remember a $300 loco made it half way round the oval when it stopped dead in its tracks! Heh heh. A long screw had been stripped when assembled and it fell out and jammed between the ties. Fortunately I was usually able to fix them myself and demo them in front of the customer so that we were all on the same page. I also remember a batch of turn-outs that wouldn't close properly and had to be slightly modded. There is really no excuse for that lack of quality control except that some bean counter determined that it is more cost effective to replace an item than to make sure they all work properly. This is true for a lot of products manufactured today.
Thanks a lot Dan for sharing this - I can't believe how common these problems seem to be! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I recently discovered that the designer's name is pronounced "Mansell", even though it's spelled Maunsell.
I never knew that. Thanks!
Yes you're right - I'd been saying it wrong for years.... still gets me today! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
23:23 to 24:18
I had that trouble with my Bachmann SY 2-8-2 steam locomotive. The tender drawbar of my Bachmann SY derailed the tender and locomotive off the tracks. It was annoying just like your SR N Class, I think Bachmann thought they’re being clever but this “drawbar” only good for nothing at all. Due to my frustrations, I decided to scratch built and modify my Bachmann SY into a custom built HO 4-8-2 locomotive to make a better looking locomotive and have a better drawbar to at least go around my tracks without frequent derailments
Ahh sorry to hear that Nathan - does it have the same drawbar then? Sounds like a great project though - how did it go?! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains the Bachmann SY drawbar is similar to the N Class but uses four prongs that fits on a weird Y shape slide area for the draw on the locomotive and tender to pivot but it pivots when it feels like it because half the time, the prongs look like it doesn’t want to turn. And once it does, the strain drags the locomotive to the right and derails on points and curves.
My custom 4-8-2 locomotive is still a work in progress but parts orders are dormant due to the “worldwide crisis and troubling times” but it will be made.
P.s: Do you use Twitter, I am somewhat active there to showcase my model train projects.
It's a treat for the eyes... 😂😀
Thank you for all your reviews, you save a lot of us from disappointment when unboxing new stuff.
And still trying to pick out the best of the mess. 😷
Stay safe (and strong lol).
haha sorry about that one, lol! Yeah - always got to find something positive! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had a Bachmann N class a few years ago.
Beautiful model, in BR lined black with late crest and I had the same derailment problem, it is a common fault with this model.
It was to do with the profile of the wheels on the tender.
I swapped the centre and leading axles around and it didn't derail after that.
Was a beautiful model and ran very well after I 'repaired' it
Yep - it certainly is a common fault! Thanks a lot for the info - that's very interesting!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just checked, the pipes are most likely to do with steam heating of the carriages, possibly overflow water or steam condensation? In days of steam locos heating was passed through the carriages, but with advent of deisels Steam generators were used.
Duly noted - yes others have said that too - heating I think!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well said Sam!..Bachmann are taking the Mick with this one!
Thanks mate, they certainly are!
Sam's got the most relaxing voice for model reviews
haha thank you! :D
Hello. Would you be able to provide more info on the draw bar mechanism modifications? I bought an N class with the same issue and was planning on modifying it, but I don't really want to go into it blind. I tend to find that the pony truck also has issues on tight curves. not sure if this is caused by the tender too but yeah, any info would be very helpful. Thankyou
There are plenty of close coupling mechanisms around that work perfectly well. Bachmann even have one themselves on their Midland Pullman.
It's as if they never even tested this one on the track.
I know!! Why use something so complicated if it doesn't even work?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well,I suppose as an old saying goes,just because it cost a lot you don't always get a lot.😉I must say Sam that you were more than generous with your review on this one.Agreed,it looks good at a glance but not so much with closer inspection.It seems that in the model hobby world there are a series of compromises in quality(going on for some time).Even for RC flying models one can find some surprising goof ups that are frankly risky!I was viewing some videos on much higher end model trains($600-$1000 range USD) even those locos are occasionally plagued with problems with workmanship.At any rate,it's a pleasure watching your humorous and witty reviews!
Very true indeed!! Glad you thought I was reasonable - the compromises were far too great in this case! :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I love the way you review model train sets this made my day.
Thanks so much!! :D
Hi there glad I came across this video. Under our NZ lockdown I got back into model railway via my 1960s Triang childhood set which naturally wasn't a runner. Thanks to your channel and others I learnt to restore all sorts of models. Anyhoo along the way I bought a used analogue Bachman loco - the modified Soughton Hall. Loved the detail but boy it sucks re it's tender connection and derailed heaps. To be fair I'm using old super 4 track but even on code 100 it hasn't been great. I was at the stage of wanting to sell it off but now I'm wondering if I can do something about the draw bar? Any ideas would be very welcome. Cheers
Thanks a lot mate - that's really lovely to hear! Yes the Hall has a poor mechanism too - I've just bought one myself! The drawbar can be replaced with a better one - I just made my own!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi sam i just bought this for my 6 year old son who is train mad and loves your channel. I got a really good deal on it so the price kind of negative the obvious issues with this loco. He is 6 so i thought this would be a good starting point for him. Was just wondering what you would recommend next for him.
Hey Sam please can you review the Bachmann class 03? Rails of Sheffield have the Military Manoeuvres train set (with an 03) on sale for 130.
I'd love to - that does sound very reasonable! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam.... I’m a bit late to the party on this one.... But it’s quite interesting to see what British train sets are like....
As you know, I’m modeling Japan in N scale. I have 3 Kato Starter Sets, one each of these sets: JR East E4 MAX Shinkansen (bullet train), JR East EF81 hauled Hokutosei sleeper train & one JRF EF210 container train.
All of the models in Japanese starter sets are identical to the main range, same design, details, mechanisms & decorations. Japanese trains, especially multiple units and dedicated train units like sleeper trains, are usually sold as base sets of 3 to 6 cars, with the extra cars in add-on sets to bring it up to the correct length. So if you want to extend the train, there will never be incompatibility issues as long as you buy the correct expansion pack(s).
Basically what the manufacturers in Japan do for train sets is to package the base set of whatever train they’ve picked for that set with an oval of track & a power pack & controller.
On a note about mechanisms, the “worst” mechanism I’ve got in my Japanese fleet is the Kato E4 MAX bullet train.... It’s a great mechanism, but in order to get a good mechanism into a double decker(!!) bullet train car and still have an interior with see-through windows on both decks, Kato has had to install the motor in one end of the car with only one flywheel.... So while it still runs well, it sounds like a mosquito buzzing down the line at high speed! If you couple two of them together, or couple it to a Mini-Shinkansen train (something JR East does in real life!), it does kind of smooth out the mosquito buzzing sound, though!
Hey Ewan, thanks for sharing! I've heard good things about Kato, are they good?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains You’re welcome, Sam! Yeah, Kato’s reputation for excellence is very well deserved! Their models really are very high quality. Doesn’t matter if it’s Japanese, American or European outline, their reputation is very much deserved!
Two quick questions.
1 - I'm actually quite stunned that this scored much lower than the Hornby large prairie tank engine.
You gave that one 3 stars for performance and 5 stars for the mechanism, despite the issues with it not running consistently, the couplers falling off, the body getting rather warm when you swapped the loco, and struggling to even pull 6 coaches as well as the Smokey Joe which was £100 cheaper. You also noted that it was capable of pulling 9 coaches fewer than this dud from Bachmann.
Since a couple more people have reported similar faults, will you be revising that score at some point, or are you waiting for a replacement loco to see if it was just a small batch that got past the quality control?
2 - Will you be reviewing the new Hornby Class 66 locos, such as the NHS special edition Capt. Tom Moore?
Yeah! This loco performed badly because the mechanism was of poor design... the Hornby Large Prairie actually had a beautiful mechanism (as you'll remember), I just suspect something was wrong with it (still bad of course, but not as bad as a poor mechanism by design). The 5101 was also spotless in it's build quality - no paint messes or ugly seam lines etc. Loads of others have complained of similar issues with the Hornby 5101 though, so I do suspect a poor choice of motor. Leave it with me, but I am thinking of reducing my score for that - I don't think I was just unlucky!
I've already done the 66s (the Lima ones are the same thing, just different mechanisms), so I can't really justify getting another right now. I may do one day though!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains A mechanism should really be judged based entirely on how well it works. And in the case of the 5101 it quite clearly didn't.
I'd argue that a bad mechanism of that kind, is actually worse than sticking in a cheaper, older and less robust style in. Especially if you let it past the quality control stage, and sell it in locos that expensive only for them to perform so poorly against cheaper models.
Do locos that perhaps run a bit too fast, but at least do so reliably somehow deserve a worse score than a locomotive geared to run at a more realistic speed, but that have serious reliability issues?
And for a model that costs £125 - £140 to have the couplings not even fit properly is ridiculous, and a serious performance flaw no matter how good it looks.
The Adams Radial from Oxford would be another example I can think of, where I thought you were far too generous towards the model despite it's severe flaws.
You gave it 3 stars on performance, 4 stars for mechanism, and 4 stars for quality, despite it struggling to pull, issues with the motors that nearly all of the models seemed to suffer from, horrendous wheelslip, cutting out on track that was ever so slightly uneven, overheating and a burning smell after running them for a while, just to list off a few of the faults it had.
Oxford also don't produce spare parts, and I think you've even said yourself that both of yours are pretty much useless now. Which makes me question why their scores weren't adjusted, including the 5 stars for value given that you're paying for what will probably be a £50 - £80 scrapyard loco or paper weight.
How intriguing, it’s seems a few years ago Bachman USA released a version of this set for the US. It was called the “Irish Railway Train Set” it came with the same loco and same coaches as this but in a different livery. Except the American version came with 3 coaches. It was Still green but the loco and coaches had some Irish railway logos on them. It was modeled in HO instead of OO. Pretty interesting.
Yes you're absolutely right - different coaches though of course - I've often wondered about that set! I don't think the model is HO though (at least not the loco)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is the correct livery and railway - in other words, the original correct version.
I've been watching some of your videos, and something occurred to me that manufacturers should start doing. It isn't relevant to this model, but when you were looking at the Oxford models, all the videos I've seen you do on them commented on minor failings like plastic seams, and other things that could be corrected early in the process. I think model manufacturers should start doing standard and premium versions of each model. Use the same tooling, the same plastic and metal parts, the same good quality mechanisms, and price the standard version accordingly, but then put extra effort into the premium version. Pay someone to clean up the mold lines before painting, mask off areas to prevent minor splatter, add a bit of paint to the cab details, things like that. Maybe take extra time to do quality control on the fitted parts, adding glue from the inside to keep them from getting loose. Nothing that changes the identity of the model, just the sort of things that really speak to high quality. I think it would really help show buyers what you are paying for. Basically, show them that the broad strokes of a model can be cheaply mass produced, but if you want that high end finish, you need real people to put time into it, and that costs money. I know, not really relevant to this set, what with it having actual design issues and all, but it seems like that would be a great business move for them. For little to no extra cost, you can cater both to the low end market that can't afford high end trains, and to the high end market that expects near perfection in their models.
You mean like Hornby Railroad range versus theit Railway range?
You call it how it is and I respect that.
Thanks Donald! :D
Hi Sam. I agree with your assessment of the set. It should be of a good standard and at a reasonable price. A brilliant paint job would never make up for bad assembly or engineering practice. Some of Bachmann's locos are geared to run at a reasonable speed, why can't they do that for all of them. I have Bachmann Mk.1 coaches from around the year 2,000 with beautifully smoothly working close couplers, why can't they do it for that tender drawbar. I'm afraid, even if the set was the one set that I really wanted, and it was like that one, I would not buy it for any price. Oh, I noticed that Bullman was bumping along on the sleepers, lol. Oh, and by the way, have you ever actually tested a loco by loading it up with the theoretical number of coached that it should pull? Regards, Alan.
Thanks Alan - yeah absolutely! A cheap set is fine, as long as the price tag is cheap too! The motor and gear arrangement is noticeably different from the norm on this model - not sure why that is! haha yes he was - he's a bugger on curves too! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Your spot on sam , not harsh at all I'm tired of buying expensive crap at this stage, especially from hornby and Bachmann, great review 👍
Thanks Ciaran - yeah I'm tired too - this Bachmann stuff costs me a fortune, and I'm rarely satisfied with it!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Good review. I appreciate the honest appraisal. I have had some very poor running Bachmann hall locos, fortunately the retailers have exchanged them.
Many thanks Paul - yes my Bachmann Hall (review coming soon) runs incredibly poorly - glad to hear it isn't just me!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains Nope I have actually had one that actually locked up solid I think it was fountains hall.
Seems to me that Bachmann only tested this on the loop of track that comes in the box. The tender won't derail on that loop because it seems that the joining mechanism only jumps when the track straightens or changes direction.
Did you deliberately derail Bullman at 36:09?
lovely looking model - but the coupling between loco and tender - you are right "pants"
you did a good engineering job to find out why it fails - clearly it stretches when under load - you would think Bachmann would have tested that !
also I think when offering only 2 coaches they should ensure there are plenty more produced to make it longer - I have the same problem with hornbys eurostar - just 2 coaches is not enough! but cant find more to buy
haha thanks mate - very much pants! I agree - how can they not have tested that?!?
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had the bachman Great smokey MTN set when I was a kid and at least one of the cars would derail especially the Log car because the logs would shift about on the curves or if I ran it fast lol. In the new version they seem to have taken away the log car and the hopper car too and left the boxcar and added a tanker same green USRA 0-6-0 though....
Thanks for sharing - I know the feeling, I have some wagons like that too! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It’s too good looking to forget about it. You could change the motor, fix up a drawbar. I would fix the holes and the paint job. But what can you do with the gearing? I don’t know of any way do you? Great video.
Absolutely John - I will fix the drawbar - not sure about the motor or gearing though - I've never been able to find suitable replacements :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
36:09 Bullman Derail?
haha probebly! ;D
I've seen another, perhaps older train featuring the maunsell n class made by Bachmann called the Irish railway. from the looks of the videos I've seen of it online, the set appears to be of a much higher quality. the n class locomotive has no smoke deflectors, and doesn't appear to run that poorly. the set also includes 3 57ft LMS corridor coaches, a 3rd class composite, a 1st and 3rd class composite and a 3rd class brake end coach. all 4 components are also painted in the same emerald and seafoam livery and flying snail emblem of the Coras Iompair Eileann (Irish Transport System) or CIE, plus the usual accoutrements of some assorted track pieces, a transformer etc. I've actually been trying to find this set for a while, but it seems to be rare here in the states. so i just wanted to know if you would think of it if you review it and if you know where i can get one. thank you.
You're right!! I've seen that too in the past - I was very interested by it!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the Bachmann N class model is a 20 year old model. Still you would think that they could reduce the price as they have paid for the tooling.
Talking of Bachmann pricing I have noticed that Bachmann have brought out a new range called the EFE rail range which contains models made by other manufacturers one of which is a Heljan hymek diesel where Bachmann have added £30 extra to the price. There is also a ex DJ models steam locomotive.
Yeah others have said that too - I had no idea it was so old! Yes they certainly have - the prices are exactly what I'd expect from Bachmann, lol! ;D
The DJM loco is also £50 more than it was too!
Sam have you’ve checked out the Hornby rebuilt Battle of Britain Royal Observer corps (34050) yet?
I did do - bit pricey for me unfortunately, but I will be looking out for them!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Are you going to get one or is it too pricey for you?
If I had paid the full RRP I would have boxed it all back up and sent it back for a refund. Those bargain basement train sets that you reviewed earlier were of far better quality both in terms of performance and painting for a fraction of the cos of this. Another good honest review, Sam
Oh yeah me too - I'm glad I didn't pay more than I did!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This engine hits all the right aesthetics for me
Hey Sam,I’ve been getting very interested in the hobby and I’ld like to know,do HO and OO gauge locos run on the same type of track,os does each one have it’s own track size?
Leonardo Barbosa Telles yes both HO and OO locos run in same size track. They have their own manufactures as OO is Britain.
gbjanuary ok,thank you very much for the information!
Yes absolutely - most models are compatible with either! :D
Sam'sTrains ok,thank you very much Sam!
Hey Sam. I live in America. When ever I first got in to model trains. I bought my first ever train set it was the Bachmann Thomas with dc sound it came with troublesome trucks one and two for $225
Awesome!! How did you get on with that?! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think you are right. If I were a beginner it would put me off continuing with model railways. It's good you speak your mind down and tell it as it is.
Thanks Duncan - for sure - imagine being a beginner, and having this as your first taste of model railways? It'd turn you away :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
14:03 its only good if you had a winter layout as it looks like it's iced up!
haha that's true, lol! ;D
I agree with you about the quality of this loco set-its not very good but don't get me wrong I would have sent it back or at the very lease contacted Bachmann about the tender/derail problems considering the price. I always appreciate your good and honest reviews so keep up the good work-but more diesels please.
Thanks mate - contacting them doesn't do much good, I've tried before re motors.... they just wanted to charge me even more money for the replacement parts! Cheers mate, really appreciate it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great review Sam. I/We were looking at Bachmann range a Few weeks back. Because they 'Do Look Great.!' But Sadly looking great isn't enough. My Son would be Devo'd to spend his Pocket Money, to end up with a Poor Runner and Derailing equipment.
Think we will be Sticking with Hornby in future. ( I was a Triang and Later Triang/ Hornby kid, so maybe Biased.)
But In my experience, Hornby never seem to Fail. My Old Black Princess loco is still running, since 1962 purchase. ( Battered, but intact and Never Fails or Derails.)
Thanks for a Great review, from me and my Boy..!
Cheers kim in Oz.😎
Thanks Kim - yes that's the problem - they do look great, and so people pick them up! Don't get me wrong - they often run great too, but they don't seem to last very long - I'm starting to see a lot of failures! While Hornby aren't immune to failures, their mechs are FAR better quality, giving their models a fighting chance of surviving for many many years, as often they do!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam,
Buy a tin of that Malachite Green paint, and then you would have the best bits of that train set. Malachite Green in gloss, or at least a sheen, is a real pleasure. A derailing train, whether it’s Malachite Green or not, is no good.
Happy modelling. Stay safe!
Jim
haha you're right there Jim, hilarious!! lol ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@ 6:30 Yes, I agree that a 3rd Coach would have made the set cooler, I confess, if it was available, I’d be tempted to own this set, the SR Malachite Green is really eye catching.
It certainly would - 3 coaches would have been lovely! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains You’re welcome Sam, :)
looking at that tender derailment & it looks like a lack of weight in the tender. Maybe adding a self adhesive wheel weight (as they use to balance car alloy wheels) to it might be a good idea. It's quite an old model (I remember these when I was getting into the hobby at the tender age of eight) but the N class itself is a very handsome prototype
You could be right - but I did all kinds of experiments with my Olive green N class before removing the drawbar - nothing I did alleviated the issue entirely!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think that you summed it up perfectly Sam, beginners should have something rugged and reliable and not be constantly re-railing a brand new item.Regards Terry.
You're right Terry - if anything, models for beginners need to be even more robust and reliable than the normal range... not the opposite way around!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That drawbar is a massive defect which has been on that model for nearly 15 years. My advice is to get rid of it and use a piece of multi core wire to connect the tender and the engine. It will make it more smoother.
You're right - how can they *not* have fixed it after so many years?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello sam enjoyed the review can I ask (not sure if I have already) but did you buy the capt tom moore class 66 as hornby are shipping them out I think.
Matthew
Thanks Matthew! I didn't buy it - I've done the class 66 already, so couldn't justify another one - they look amazing though! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
For the record, never had an issue with mine. Runs beautifully
Glad to hear that Ian, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
On my Kato N scale Broadway Limited passenger set, two of the coaches are connected by a similar drawbar mechanism as the N class. In real life the the two particular units were drawbarred together. The drawbar mechanism works just fine- the coaches are close-coupled on the straights and separate without colliding in corners, with no derailments. It can be done, but Bachmann's inconsistency strikes again. There's good reason we Americans have nicknamed them Botchmann!
Since you said you'd like to try a better train set, give Kato a look. I don't know what UK-specific products they make besides the N scale Eurostar, but Kato's mechanical quality is top-notch in any scale they make.
Ahh very interesting - glad to hear Kato got this right then, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Strange, I have several No and never had any problems with them. I’m wondering if there’s an issue with the train set engines in particular?
Glad to hear yours was okay Iain - it's not just the train set engines though - my other N class derailed just as badly (except on different curves)! If yours is running well, then your track-work must be extremely well done mate!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Excellent review of the Bachmann train set that was not so much scary this time, but just annoying that it isn’t perfect train set.
What I mean by annoying is the fact the N Class which looks lovely with that Southern green livery, is the fact that this model has three pole motor as well that tender keeps coming of the rails because of the link between the loco & tender.
Thanks a lot Joe - yeah you're right, a very different set, lol! Yeah - not a good design that :(
Where does this leave us? Does it leave us to not buy from Heljan, Bachmann Branchline, and Bachmann USA? What are the better options? I can't help but wonder, when I see reviews like this.
haha I know!! Though hold that thought on Heljan - I think I've actually found a super loco from them! Hornby still works for me too!! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You know that its depressing when the coaches perform much better than the 160 pound loco that is dauntingly pulling them along. Goodness! That tender is bound to cause a rail disaster.
Great video as always Sam!
haha very true! Those tenders are terrible!
Hey Sam you can get 2 more of the bullied coaches from Cheltenham model centre they are split from set and cost £55
I'd love that - great idea Mark! :D
Hi Sam,
I am on holiday at the moment (very lucky to be able to go) so won't be able to watch your videos due to bad WiFi, but then again, we are on holiday to enjoy here!
I have only just managed to be able to load in the commets for this video, so just to let you know, I won't be able to comment on your videos as usual.
After a few weeks I will have caught up and I will put up comments when I have watched these videos.
What was the music for the intro? It sounded like Pineapple Rag in places but it wasn't. Fig leaf rag?
Thanks.
Blimey you are lucky - hope you have a great time!! No problem - see you soon! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam if you are in the collector’s Club there is an exclusive terrier I suggest
Yeah I know!! I have been tempted!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have an SR black N class (the Modelzone special edition) and it runs beautifully, certainly better than my Railroad Schools which bounces very unrealistically - it's pretty much balanced on its driving wheels!
Can you review the whiskies galore train set?
992 views so far! Nearly 1K! I think the inclusion of second radius curves is to cater for smaller spaces. I think, even for a starter loco, the N class is very poor. Thanks for another great review, and I'm looking forward to the last live episode of Series 9!
Yeah that's true actually - 2nd radius has its uses!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Shame about the OO N Class, the N Gauge version is one of my best runners and it seems to have much better detail given the size, even the cab is painted! Has tender pick ups and the price might be similar (I don't remember how much mine was when I got it).
The way the glazing look on the OO version seems as if some glue has gotten on them.
Am able to remake this set in N, though would be in BR Colours as while we have Malachite Bulleid coaches we don't have a Malachite N Class!
Great Review Sam as always
~James
I've heard great things about the N gauge version too - great to hear that!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@11:01 I hope the wind doesn’t try to take it’s dome
haha I hope not too! ;D
Sam'sTrains True lol : D
Well, considering it's a old loco, surely it's a bit harsh to say it should have all the modern features, have you got one of the new N class?
It's an old model, but it's still in Bachmann's range today with a modern price tag - why is it harsh to judge it as a modern loco? The new N class is no different - it's the same thing, just with less complex paintwork!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
There were two influences on the design of the N class both Great Western and Midland Railway. Holcroft came from the GW and brought with him Churchward's excellent ideas on standardisation of parts, taper boilers, and long travel valves. James Clayton had been trained at the Beyer Peacock company, been a draughtsman at SECR then gone to the Midland Railway working with Paget on the high pressure locomotive. He was responsible for the design of the Somerset & Dorset 2-8-0 where he designed in possibly the best braking system of any locomotive in the UK at the time. He brought from the Midland the Walschaerts valve gear, Midland ideas of ease of maintenance and possibly why the chimney and dome are very similar to Midland locomotives. The N was very similar to the 2 cylinder K and 3 cylinder K1 class 2-6-4 tanks with common components. Bachmann are bringing out brand new Bullied coaches to replace the old models, which have to be at least 25 years old (they may have upgraded the bogies). They will be compared to the Hornby Bullied 57 foot coaches, which are some of my favourite coaches. However, Bachmann LMS Porthole coaches are nowhere near the standard of the Hornby Stanier coaches, which are the older older model. So let us see what a job they are going to make of them. I had thought of getting one, but you have changed my mind.
Fascinating stuff Don - crazy to think this loco has routes in the GWR and Midland - thanks very much for all the info! The new Bulleid coaches should be very good to see!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam!
It almost looks like the tender to locomotive coupling needs too be bored a tad bigger cause like you point out, that clunky bit when under a load is rather odd.
As for what is worth in this set.......Yea...even I am confused on the price.
I think they should just have used the standard coupling - it's just better! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
3 pole motor?
had N gauge models with 5 pole pretty much as standard _40 years ago_
haha really?! Yeah, there's no good reason for this that I know of :/
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Good review Sam. I am pleased you are honest and don't suck up to the companies.
Thank you! I certainly don't - they don't deserve to be sucked up to! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)